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Maria Lucia, " What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Weirder and Harder to Relate To" (U Minnesota Press, 2025)
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- [00:01]
Mary Lucia
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- [00:32]
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- [02:35]
Mary Lucia
Welcome to the New Books Network.
- [02:40]
Rebecca Buchanan
Hi, this is Rebecca Buchanan, host at New Books Network, and today I'm here with Mary Lucia to talk about her new book, what Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Weirder and Harder to Relate to. Mar thanks for being here with me today.
- [02:53]
Mary Lucia
Thank you, Rebecca. That just rolls right off the tongue, doesn't it?
- [02:56]
Rebecca Buchanan
I know. I love it. We can talk first, I want to talk about how the book came to be, but then we can talk about your title. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about why you decided to write this book and how it came to be?
- [03:08]
Mary Lucia
You know, there's, I think, a few different angles I approached this with. And one was that throughout this three year period where I was, you know, still very much in the public and doing my. My job and. Or trying to do my job, I couldn't talk about any of the things that were going on. It was. Some of it was a legal gag order. Some of it was just, you know, I just didn't feel comfortable. So for literally three years of the worst kind of time in my life, I had no voice. And the irony being, I believe it was my voice that initially even drew this person in and obviously drew in people that are not mentally unstable as well. But to have gone that long really without being able to speak was tough. And then the thought of writing a book, I realized I wasn't gonna expect anyone to read 300 pages of trauma. So I. I knew that it wouldn't be a linear story and that I would be jumping back into other parts of my life. And I think it worked out okay. Did you?
- [04:20]
Rebecca Buchanan
Oh, yeah, yeah. I loved it. I thought. I mean, there. I think it's really hard to write about trauma because you have to figure out how, like. Because it's tough just to write anyway about. Relive those experiences. Right. But also, how do you weigh in? Like, you have a good amount of levity in there. Right. And humor. Right. You have. Because you need. You need it to, you know, so for folks. And we can come back to that, but just for folks who are listening, if you're listening and you're from Minnesota, you probably know who Mary is. But if they're not, could you tell us like a little bit about you and why and why this was such a. Like a big important thing and not being able to talk about something is a big deal for you?
- [05:07]
Mary Lucia
Yeah, I mean, I've had a 30 year career in radio in one market, which is really unusual. I've kind of been bumped and bounced down the dial in Minneapolis St. Paul. And the last job that I was at was for Minnesota Public Radio, and I was the afternoon Drive host for 17 years. And I realized very quickly that I knew my very first time I ever got a radio job right out of College. I was at nyu and I'd heard that there was this cool station launching in Minnesota and it was this club DJ from First Ave, Kevin Cole. And you know, I knew I had no experience, but I also knew that I am a music nerd. It's in my DNA. I would rather have gone to see shows than plays. I was studying acting at the time and the fact that somebody took a chance on me without any experience, they saw something in me. And truth be told, again, I'm always glad that I didn't really know how I was supposed to sound on radio. So I just did what I thought was all right. Somehow over the course of whatever 28 years, I would pride myself on being pretty authentic and genuine. And I do think that it drew listeners to me. I'd hear from people, people all the time who'd say, I think I feel like I know you. And I'd say, you do. You know, there's really not a differentiation from me on air or off. So what it was that I think initially really reached people became a downfall when it was somebody who was mentally unstable.
- [07:00]
Rebecca Buchanan
Yeah, so let's talk a little bit about that. I mean, before I hit record, we were both talking about we have dog. You know, our dogs are sitting in our rooms with us. And so, you know, where you talk about like how important your dogs are to you and how you were just sharing something that you thought was pretty normal for you to share. And that kind of triggered this horrific three plus years in your life. So. Yeah, can you talk a little bit about that?
- [07:28]
Mary Lucia
You know, it was something I had done throughout a career. I can't even count hundreds and hundreds of times because when you start talking about your fur babies, there are people out there that have them as well. And it's a way to relate and it. To me, I was talking to people on the regular who had dogs and cats. And as we both know, with that comes the absolute devastation of making end of life plans. So I had a pug at the time, Smudge, my very first pug. And it sounds a little corny or dramatic, but until I had smudge, I. I hadn't really felt a lot of unconditional love in my life. And so there was sort of always something very special about her and what she did for me. And then when she became sick, I kind of shared a lot of that with the listeners. The whole trial of getting her spinal surgery and the year long rehab that followed. So it was kind of, you know, the listeners were coming along the story with me And I was coming along on their stories. So on the day that, the day before, when I knew that I was going to have to go make that horrible decision, I shared that. And I was so touched by the amount of genuine, genuine support and sympathy. Because who can't relate to that horrible feeling, like, am I playing God? I'm the one that's deciding this is your last day. So many people reached out to me and also shared their own stories. And it's just not uncommon for me to respond with a I man. I know exactly. I know exactly how you feel. And there was one among so many of a man who said, I just recently lost my dog as well. And the response I gave, like I said, was no different than anyone else. I just said, oh, you're not alone. I hear you. It's terrible. So then couple of weeks went by and some odd things started showing up at the radio station for me, without a name, without an address. But I've had weirdos throughout my entire career. And I think almost anyone in a media, I think the hierarchy is like television, radio, print. I mean, everyone has had to deal with something that was unpleasant. This, however, was next level. And a lot of it was because the nature of. Of the messages and also the objects that were being sent to me were so random and so threatening.
- [10:14]
Rebecca Buchanan
Yeah. And so you talk about throughout this, of having to navigate a lot of this alone without support for multiple reasons. And I'd love to love. But I would love to talk about that a little because I think we often, as you say, our legal system and our police have this idea that a stalker or someone who is. Is someone you're going to know, and they have sort of systems put in place for that, but not for your situation. So can you talk a little bit about that? About, like. Because I think you represent that and present that to us and get people thinking. Right?
- [10:54]
Mary Lucia
Yeah, right. Police. I think that law enforcement, as you said, they're. Their knowledge is definitely more of a domestic stalking, like you said, in which you know the person, an ex or somebody you know in your life. So each time that I was calling the cops to come to my house, I had this spiel and I had it down to like a minute and a half, but it was a basic. I don't know this person. I don't know their name. They don't know me. I'm on the radio, and they've attached themselves to my voice, and they have created this delusional world in which we are in love and trying to just read the responding officers faces. As I could see the confusion. I could see the complete detachment of what I was saying. It was frustrating. It got more frustrating. And the funny thing is that, though this was in the last decade, this is before, like, everyone had a ring camera or some sort of personal home surveillance. So I was literally at the mercy of calling cops, hoping they'd get there while he was still there. And then it became very obvious, no, you need to get this guy on camera, because the complete insanity that was being sent to me at work then was being dropped off at my home. And that does a real number on your head, too. It's one thing to get something at work and then to know this person's been in your private space. And I joke, but, you know, when I first bought this house, I. I put up a privacy fence before I even moved in, which sends a nice message to my neighbors. Hi, you'll never see me. But. So, yeah, it was an extra feeling of violation just that this person was. Was at my house so many. Frequently several times a week, and leaving some of the most horrifying things and messages behind.
- [12:58]
Rebecca Buchanan
Yeah. And, you know, you talk about the privacy fence and. But you talk about, too, this fact that just because you are in the public eye, just because your job is one where people hear your voice, doesn't mean that you want to be approached 247 as, you know, like. Like, you want your own privacy. And you do are very. Like, it can be introverted. Right. And so can you. Yeah. Talk a little bit about that too, because I think there's that extra layer that people are like, well, that's your job. You should learn how to take care, you know, you should learn how to deal with that.
- [13:30]
Mary Lucia
That is so true. And on top of that, because I'm a little, I don't know, unconventional, maybe on air, there was a whole lot of only you luch. As though somehow my specific personality warranted this kind of attention, which. That was so dismissive and made me, again, feel so lost and that no one was really understanding this. And then also, you know, when news of a stalker hit local media, of course, all they can report about is a listener left a candle and some flowers for this dj, which makes me look like a lunatic. Because they either knew all the rest of the things that had been done to me or couldn't print it because a lot of it was so explicit. Not knowing the identity of this person for so long, that is its own mind game, not being able to even say, maybe it is somebody I've met. That went on for so long until one day I was at home. It was one of those first really beautiful spring days where you fly open the windows and the cats take their place in the sill. And I saw this man, and he was coming up to my front door with some purpose. It wasn't like he looked like he was vaguely looking for an address that seemed he knew. My blood ran cold because I instantly. I knew this was the person. And of course, the dogs are barking. Cause he's ringing my doorbell. And I'm thinking, what is this person thinking? Am I gonna open the door and say, come on in? I was. And I really was sort of almost myself trying to hide while I kind of could see him on the stoop. He was talking to my dogs through the screen, which made me sick because in so many of his cards, letters, and messages, he was threatening to kill my dogs. And I. The threat with that was always, I'll be the only one that can help you. So while he was the person making the threat, he was delusionally also believing that he would be the only one that would be able to save me. I got a look. I'm not joking. At the back of his head more clearly. And I called the police again, as per usual. And it just. It kind of went round and round and round until one time there was something with his initials on it. And I don't know if he slipped up or wanted to. I don't know. But I went back and played my own detective. And I went through every spam and deleted email over the last two years. And I found that dog condolence message. And the initials matched. Took a wild hunch that was who that was. I think another thing people don't understand, and rightfully so, because if it hasn't happened to you, you would not know. But in order to file a restraining order, an order of protection, well, you have to know the person's name, and you have to also know where they live, assuming they do live somewhere and they're not indigent. You also have to pay for the restraining order. Acquiring it isn't the same as it being served. And that is a massive difference. So if you're talking about somebody who is just bouncing from crash pad to crash pad or has a P.O. box, it makes it infinitely more difficult to serve that. That order of protection, which is what stretched this process on for so long.
- [17:40]
Rebecca Buchanan
Yeah. And one another thing that I was. I really appreciate and was really drawn to is like, your story and kind of what you went through is Something that women go through all the time. Right. Like you're not only talking about this situation but also at work, like, like believing women. Right. And listening to women and understanding women. Do know what the, what we're talking, we know what we're talking about. Right. And, and maybe better than like the average white man. Right. So can you talk a little bit? Because that for me at least that came through in here a lot. Like I'm like, uh huh. Like I often say, well, if that happened to a man, there'd be a problem. We have a solution for that already. Right?
- [18:22]
Mary Lucia
You are not kidding. I mean and also for the company that always seemed to have a perfect plan in place for X, Y and Z seemed to absolutely be rudderless when it came to this. So when I asked for help from various levels of management, A, the interest didn't seem very strong to help me or take seriously. And then my most. The manager who I was actually working for was so dismissive of it and it just felt again like you're on your own. And I can't stress that enough. I thought so yeah, they never provided any lawyers for me or anything like that. I just ended up with some court appointed prosecutor. It just felt like here I am, I'm a fairly. I hate even saying this but like I might be sort of a marquee name for this company. They've definitely used me when it's been a fundraiser or an opportunity to put me out front for some visibility. And here I was begging for some help and some attention and the hands off approach just. It hurt me and it made me angry and I thought, okay, well I guess I'm on my own. The police don't seem to be able to help. My work doesn't seem to be able to help. And all it did was push me further into that feelings of isolation and
- [19:58]
Rebecca Buchanan
this idea that like you second guess yourself all the time and you talk about also like the physical toll this took on your bo. Right? Your body too and all of that.
- [20:11]
Mary Lucia
Yeah, I didn't sleep. I mean I couldn't sleep. I mean I've had a heart. I probably had insomnia when I was a child. But like I. So sleep is not something that comes easily anyway. So during this time I guess I just felt I needed to be alert or I don't know, my body just would not let me rest. And if you've ever gone, I mean now I've never had a newborn but the closest I could think of that sleep deprivation, I mean that's a form of torture, as we both know. I got to that point where I think as I was approaching night three of no sleep. Yeah. You start to feel like you're losing your mind. I think physically it takes over. You feel sick. You feel the psychological part of it is one whole thing, but then the physical part, it takes its toll.
- [21:01]
Rebecca Buchanan
Yeah. So you talk in here too, though, about. So you've got this going on, but you. And it's interesting because you also talk about sort of your, like, growing up and your family throughout this and bring them in. Can you talk about that a little bit? Your family. I mean, you talk about your brothers and how they were really supportive of you and. Yeah. Like. And why you thought. I mean, why you felt maybe that talking about your family within, talking about this situation was really important.
- [21:30]
Mary Lucia
Well, I grew up in a fairly unconventional kind of household. We. We never called our parents mom or dad. We called them by their first names, which is something people still think is strange. So that was not strange to me because that was all I knew. I'm the youngest, and the age difference spans I have. My oldest sister was almost 17 years older than me. So our experiences growing up, we didn't so much grow up together as we kind of grew around each other. I mean, it was very. It's interesting when you have older siblings because their recollections of their childhood and what our quote unquote parents did or didn't do is so different than mine. And I respect that. But there just wasn't a lot of understanding that by the time I came around, it was. I mean, I laughed. There's no photos of me. I mean, there's none. They just. At that point, they were like, yeah, you know, that's a wrap. We're done with taking photos, and we know what she looks like. So it was. I was. It was the most hands off parenting style that at the time, I remember thinking, looking at my other friends whose parents were helping them fill out college applications, and I'm sitting there alone doing this, going, this is strange. But I also have come to realize, and even through writing the book, that that hands off parenting style and self. Parenting is truly what made me who I am, makes me what I think, say, believe, feel right. And I'm grateful.
- [23:12]
Rebecca Buchanan
I have to laugh, shout out to my youngest sister who every time we're all together and we have. We're going through stuff and she's like, of course there's pictures. I'm the oldest. There's pictures of you all over. There's no pictures like, where are my pictures? So every time we find a picture of her, we're like, debbie, here you are.
- [23:28]
Mary Lucia
Seriously, it's, it's, it's such a funny little detail, but it's like. That's really interesting. Okay, whatever. But yeah, they were done. And I think also too, just the individual people that they were, there was a certain amount of limitation to what they could do or wanted to do. So it's tough when you see other friends or other people and there's that really close knit feeling of I got your back at any cost. And if you haven't really been raised with that, it's. You don't grow up to expect it from other people.
- [24:05]
Rebecca Buchanan
Yeah, I want to talk about music, which means we could talk forever. Right, but we have. But. Right, but you, like, because music is so important and you kind of talk about, you know, certain musicians and certain bands that were kind of there for you. Right? So, yeah, can you talk a little bit about, you know, some of that?
- [24:26]
Mary Lucia
And yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, during a period of time, five months, I had taken a leave of absence. And that was ostensibly to. We had a court date set. I thought it was just going to be a couple of weeks. But then the court cases kept getting pushed and, you know, he then was out. Somebody popped his bail, which was another frustration of like, who. Who is paying his bail? Thinking, yeah, you know, let's give him another chance. So that was frustration upon frustration. And then during the time that I was out, you know, every day at work, I can honestly say I listened to music 8 hours a day, 4 hours I spent programming it, 4 hours I spent listening to my show. And it was so ingrained that to just go cold turkey was just not right for me. So the music became that familiar comfort in a way that no person had.
- [25:32]
Rebecca Buchanan
I have, if any, people who might listen to me more than once kind of know that I believe Prince can do no wrong musically. Right. Like, we have to. I mean, I grew up in Minnesota too, so, like, it's Prince. But you have this interesting. I have to ask you about your take on Prince.
- [25:50]
Mary Lucia
Oh, yeah. Well, here's the thing. I will tell you that. So that morning, that spring morning when I got the call, and it was basically an all hands on deck get into work. The news at that point was just that maybe he had been found at Paisley. There was no definitive had he passed on yet. So I hopped in my car, did the same drive I've done for, you know, 15 years. And I could tell you Rebecca. Everything looked and felt different. I was looking at other cars. People were driving different. The sky was different. It was quiet. It was a remarkable noticeable change, like something got rocked off its axis. I got into work. By this point, we had. Some of the staff was out at Paisley park, and that's when they officially announced that he had passed. Now, again, certainly throughout a radio career, there's gonna be musicians that you hold so dear to you that do pass away. And I halfway jokingly say that every musician I loved timed it so that they kicked the bucket like, 10 minutes before I went on air. So I spent the majority of that show sit in Shiva and trying to honor their music. But with Prince, it was a little different. And it was so close to home. It was so unexpected. A couple things. You know, it's natural when someone of importance, somebody that you hold important in your life, someone you've never met, somebody who you've only seen in concert or listened to records when they leave this planet. I think the natural thing is for people to gather somewhere. I can only think of it in terms of like when Princess Diana died. Everyone's gathering at Buckingham Palace. Where do you gather when Prince dies? Well, two places. One was Paisley park, and the other one was the radio. So it felt important that day, of course, news cameras, every local news wanted to come into the station just to say, you know, this is a. An important artist to not only the whole state, to the world, but to this radio station. And trying to have the professionalism to do your job while wanting to just lay in a fetal position on the floor. And that's how I felt. It was personal, and yet you had to do your job. And, you know, I just. I guess my whole thing with that, too, was that I felt like after he passed away, they kind of rushed the, let's get a museum open. Which is great if this is what he wanted or the family wanted. But I don't know if you know that when they first opened Paisley park as a museum proper for touring, they didn't have any velvet ropes. Things weren't behind glass. People were touching guitars. It just hurt me to my core. Like, wait, wait, this is wrong. This stuff needs to be protected. And the second thing that absolutely drove me nuts was that it became this kind of witch hunt of who supplied these drugs to him. And I could only think, having been a drug addict myself, that, well, I always took the drugs, so I know where my responsibility was there. And with Prince, it just seemed that people couldn't accept that this could happen. So who's to blame? And I felt like that pulled so much focus away from all of the brilliance and the gifts that he laid upon us throughout a whole career.
- [29:50]
Rebecca Buchanan
Yes. And still is, I feel like. Still is, right? Like, you combine humor, like I said before, like humor in this. With this really traumatic stuff. Can you talk a little bit about this writing, in this writing process and, like, why you. I mean, you know, why you even have your title? What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me weirder and harder to relate to. Yeah, like that combination and bringing in that humor and why you thought that was so important.
- [30:18]
Mary Lucia
I mean, I have the darkest humor of probably anyone you'll meet. And it served me pretty well, and it certainly does serve well in times of great, great stress. But I think that I've always been able to sort of, with some distance, even maybe just make fun of something or just see it in a really dark light. And for me, I think also people had heard me on air. I was also a columnist in town. And when you write a column or do radio, for me, there's a certain economy to the way I speak. If I don't have anything interesting to say, I just play a song. I'm not one to love, to drone on and on and on. And I knew just from having written for so many years that that was the style in which I wrote. It's the style in which I talk. And I said in the book, I had an AP writing class teacher, and we would hand in our essays and then they would be graded and we'd have to hand back, like, from the person in the front row, hand them back. I could see mine from space because the professor had, in red blood or sharpie, written the words awk all through the margin. Awkward, and I guess short for awkward. And I was embarrassed and then finally had the courage. One day I went up and said, I guess you might need to explain a little more to me about how this is so awkward. Are you speaking purely grammatically, which I could maybe understand, and I will never forget it. She said, you can't write the way you speak. That's not writing. And at the time, I thought, well, a. Who made you God? And I'll see you at my book launch, bitch. But the other thing was, I couldn't believe that somebody that was a creative writing teacher would put that finite cap on. Here's the rule. And I thought, you are high. Are you crazy? There would be no songs if that were the case. People often write in the manner in which they speak. So again, knowing all of this. And having had the practice, I certainly knew that there would be a lot of humor balanced with a lot of the terrible stuff.
- [32:50]
Rebecca Buchanan
So, you know, you talk like in writing this. Was this something. Did you know coming in that this might be something that was gonna be difficult for you to write? Or were you like ready? Were you like, I am ready. I gotta put this down on paper. Can you write? Can you talk a little bit about that?
- [33:07]
Mary Lucia
Yeah, I think that it was like you said. I mean, to write about trauma is to relive it. But I will honestly say when I started writing this, I was no more over it. Through, it healed, it was still pretty fresh. I mean, it almost felt like, get it out now so I don't have to think about it in 10 years. That stuff kind of seeps into your, your DNA and brain and changes you. And post traumatic stress disorder takes very interesting. I hate to use the word triggers, but it does and I'm living proof of that. So there was a part of me that felt, no, this is pretty fresh. I'm going to get this down now. And not in the sense of, then I'll never have to talk about it again. Because of course you go on a book tour and that's all you do. But I really felt that it was important for me to come up with something creatively out of this misery because I felt he had taken so much a stranger had taken so much of who I was away from me. And I allowed that, that if I couldn't produce something, it would have been for nothing.
- [34:24]
Rebecca Buchanan
Can't, you know. And I appreciate too, like you use the word triggers and that it's overused, but you, you at the, you talk about like, so this happened, but here are the lasting, the lasting impact of it, right? Like, do not leave anything on my doorstep. Right? Do not come. Right. And so I really appreciate that too because I often think, we often decide that there's this finite time where you're supposed to grieve or you're supposed to and then you're supposed to like through therapy, through, not therapy, through whatever you're supposed to be done. And that's not the case, right? Like for the rest of your life these are going to be things that doesn't matter. I can still feel okay about myself, but these are issues. So I feel like that's really important.
- [35:10]
Mary Lucia
It really is. You know, I know a lot of well meaning people, even when I returned back to work, who, who said, oh God, aren't you glad that's over? And it Was like, just define over, but. And I've never been much of a get over it. I've been more of a get through it type person, so. Yeah, but the lingering effects, they're sharp and they're there. I mean, I wouldn't pick up a phone of an unknown caller if you paid me. I, I, I don't, I, I don't even really want a phone at my job. I mean, just little weird things. If I see a handwritten anything in my mailbox, I'm, I don't, I won't. It could be $5,000 in cash and it's going in my garbage. Little things like that where I really felt like some of the things I changed about myself were to protect myself, but some of the things I didn't, I mean, I was at shows three times a week. It was just part of who I was. It just was taken from me because you never knew if this person was in the room. And that's a horrible way to live. And I remember one night calling the MPD after a night he had been at my house and I said, gave the spiel, the sort of condensed down version of everything, and said, and that particular night too, I said, God, I don't know how he ever figured out where I live. And the responding officer kindly said, well, don't worry about that. I'm sure he just followed you home from work. And I thought that was just one of so many comments that were throwaways, I'm sure to them. Another example I write about was woke up to the sound of breaking glass and knew it was my front door, storm door, and had that actual thought in my brain as I ran down the stairs with my phone in my Louisville Slugger. This might be it. Like he might be in my house right now. And I saw that it had just broken my storm window. And so it was just shattered glass all over my front steps. And I called the cops. They actually came pretty quickly. And my habit was to meet them halfway because I didn't want the dogs to start barking and no doorbells ringing at 2am So I met them out there. And the first thing that the, I'm standing amongst a shattered door and the first thing the responding officer said to me was, you have an illegal light bulb. Which, and funnily enough, of course I knew I did because I had gone to a hardware store where this sort of friend worked and said, look, I got some illegal bulbs. We can't even sell them on the floor because there's the wattage. It's not energy efficient. I said, I'll take all of them. So true, my motion light could have lit Yankee Stadium and did. But that was the first thing this cop said was, you have an illegal light bulb, it gives you some idea of just where their priorities were. And another memorable time was when I was standing out there to meet them again. Had my little collection of blue cards. If you've ever had to call 911, you get one each time. Trading cards. So I had like a collection of blue cards, I had my restraining order. And the cop gave me this kind of up and down look and said, are you sure you're his type? That's when I wanted to, like, stab him. At that point, the anger was coming out. And that was the one component throughout this whole trauma that was missing for me. I was feeling powerless, I was feeling weak. I was feeling just steamrolled by the circumstances. And it wasn't until that anger, that righteous anger started popping in that I really started to actually get some distance from the trauma.
- [39:22]
Rebecca Buchanan
You mentioned, you were talking, you mentioned something that for me, I was like, holy crap, this is so smart. The Louisville Slugger and putting like a sock on it. So if you swing at somebody, and I was like, that's genius. Thank you, thank you. I am like filing that sucker away forever.
- [39:38]
Mary Lucia
Rebecca. I had plenty of time to like sit with my own crazy thoughts going, okay, well, let's see. Well, if I put a sock on it, it's gotta be like a knee high. Cause, you know, it's like they could grab a crew sock off the end of. I mean, no, I had a cue ball and a sock. I mean, I. I sort of created my own weaponry. But no, your brain starts doing crazy things to you when you feel like, I might have to battle a stranger, but.
- [40:07]
Rebecca Buchanan
And now you're ready for the zombie apocalypse, so we're set. Right? So I think, you know, one thing I wanted to ask you about too, is that you have this whole thing going on. Work is a struggle and there's some loss there. Like, you are not on the radio anymore. Right. And that's a big loss for, you know, you and like, your identity. Like you said, you were on the radio for, you know, a long time. So can you talk a little bit about that maybe what you're doing now and like, like that, like that whole loss for that with that too?
- [40:43]
Mary Lucia
Yeah. I wasn't leaving a job. I was leaving a career, so to speak. And not because I wanted to. There had been just so many different components that were leading up to it. And I will still honestly say this, and I realize that life is about paying your bills and taking care of what you gotta take care of. But my God, if you're in radio and fun has left the building, follow it. Because I for years tried my very best to just kind of make some positive changes where it concerned equity. I was born kind of neck first, so I realized that a lot of my companion coworkers were not comfortable with sticking their neck out. And I was fine to do it for them. But as you know, the woman that does that in a company, boy, you're trouble. So I had no problem pointing out shortcomings because I was also very open about my own. And I felt like if nobody else sees this as just utterly toxic, I gotta make a change. Because I've been trying to change something that I'll never understand and that is corporate America. I will never understand the decision making and, and so I had to change myself. It was sad. It felt, yeah, I felt a little pushed out, but I was on my own terms and I gave them the notice. I did all the proper things you're supposed to do. I even handed them a copy of my playlist two days before my last shift. It was very emotional. And radio doesn't grow on trees. Great jobs. But I could also say that from my very first job in 1994, I mean we've always been threatened with automation is going to put you out of work or AI is going to put you out of work. And I managed to hang on for 30. So I literally left in April of 2022 and started writing the book as my full time job. I literally got dressed every day. I don't own pants with an elastic waist. I put on pants, a belt, shoes and came down here. And that was my job. So it sort of, it took a little of the sting out of not being on air. But getting this book and writing it and having the reaction I've gotten is incredibly satisfying.
- [43:29]
Rebecca Buchanan
So I'll ask you again my final question. Like you wrote this book, so I mean, promotion of the book. Are you gonna write another book? Like what are you doing? Like, yeah, it's self promo. What going on with this or anything else?
- [43:41]
Mary Lucia
Yeah, I mean I. Right now I am the program advisor for Radio K, the University of Minnesota's college radio station. And I was just telling them the other day that the, the, the great thing about college radio, well, one of the many things is that the expectations to be perfect, to sound professional, to have every name pronounced correctly, throw that out the window. What people want to hear is you talking about something you love. It's what I made a career out of. And I always say to them, listen, I've got 30 years of experience. It's all tools, no rules. If these things that work for me might help you, go ahead and take them. But the majority of people that are there aren't going to pursue broadcast after college. So this should be fun and this should be a time that you take a few chances. And you know as well as I do, when you're a teenager or 19, 20, you are developing who you are and music is a big part of that. So I still see that and relate to my 19 year old self. Nothing's changed. So that's kind of a nice thing to know that, that young people still are figuring out who they are by that community of music.
- [45:00]
Rebecca Buchanan
So. Yeah. So you're going to work on a new book? Anything. Last thing with like, with this book or anything else you want people to know?
- [45:08]
Mary Lucia
Yeah, hell yeah, I want. Oh, God. I would like to change the algorithm so that when you Google my name, his mugshot doesn't pick up. It's frustrating. And, you know, I'm hoping that with all the work that I've been doing in the promo and all the other things, I'm truly hoping that, you know, the worst time in my life, no one wants to be defined by that. And I have accomplished so much creatively in my career that it still sort of kills me that that's the first thing that pops up. So I'd like to change that algorithm to be, you know, Mary Lucia, radio author, dog owner, and maybe way, way, way down. Is that person just you and then
- [45:56]
Rebecca Buchanan
lots of pictures of pugs every. Right. Like that's what we can. Yes, exactly. Like that's all you really need. Mary. Thank you so much. Mary Lucia, about her book. What doesn't kill me makes me weirder and harder to relate to. Thanks for talking with me on New Books Network.
- [46:13]
Mary Lucia
I was happy to do it. Rebecca, thank you so much.