Podcast Summary

New Books Network: Dr. Mark D. Steinberg on "Moral Storytelling in 1920s New York, Odessa, and Bombay"

Episode Date: February 21, 2026
Host: Dr. Miranda Melcher
Guest: Dr. Mark D. Steinberg
Book: Moral Storytelling in 1920s New York, Odessa, and Bombay: Sex, Crime, Violence, and Nightlife in the Modern City (Bloomsbury, 2026)

Main Theme

The episode explores Dr. Mark Steinberg’s comparative study of moral anxieties and everyday life in three global cities during the 1920s—New York, Odessa, and Bombay. Through the lens of "moral storytelling," Steinberg analyzes how obsessions with sex, crime, violence, and nightlife were narrated, debated, surveilled, and lived within radically different political and cultural contexts. Ultimately, the discussion uncovers striking similarities in how normative and deviant behaviors were constructed, policed, and contested in modern cities.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Scholarly Motivation and Comparative Approach

• Background: Dr. Steinberg transitioned from a focus on Russian and Soviet history to global comparative urban history, inspired by his teaching experiences, including at a prison ([01:32]).
• Motivation: His interest stemmed from both historical curiosity and the resonance with current-day "culture wars" over morality, deviance, gender, and sexuality ([03:50]).
• Comparative Cities Selection: Steinberg chose New York, Odessa, and Bombay not for their uniqueness or direct connection, but for their diversity. Importantly, he argues that similar phenomena could be observed in nearly any combination of global cities—a testament to modern urban anxieties ([08:50]).

2. "Moral Storytelling": Language, Narratives, and Ambiguity

• Concept: "Moral storytelling" encapsulates both the elite narratives about deviance and how ordinary people’s actions and stories (even if indirectly) contest or complicate these definitions ([04:00]).
• Elite vs Subaltern Stories: Even as authorities attempt to categorize and discipline, their own narratives reveal ambiguity, contradiction, and fascination with transgression ([08:27], [14:03]).
• Historical Ambiguity: Steinberg contends that the binaries of ‘moralists’ vs ‘deviants’ are always muddled; storytelling from both sides is rife with ambivalence—not least in how ‘deviance’ draws simultaneous condemnation and admiration ([50:46]).
• "Can the subaltern speak?" Steinberg attempts to circumvent the lack of direct subaltern voices by piecing together the stories told about/by them through behavior and indirect accounts ([08:27]).

3. Language of Deviance: "Wayward," "Wild," and Beyond

• Obsessive Vocabulary: Authorities in all three cities used a rich and promiscuous language to describe moral anxiety: "wayward," "wild," "vicious," "licentious," "disorderly," etc. ([14:03]).
  • Wayward: Implies deviation from a "straight" path—refers both to spatial wandering and moral straying ([14:03]).
  • Wild: Suggests people are untamed, closer to animal/natural impulses versus civilized restraint ([14:03]).
  • Cross-Cultural Use: Similar terms appear in Russian/Ukrainian in Odessa and in English across Bombay and New York, revealing shared modern anxieties rather than local uniqueness ([14:03]).

“It’s like the moralists are out of control in their vocabulary... Even the vocabulary becomes sort of wild.”
— Mark Steinberg ([14:03])

• Religious and Secular Overlap: The language of "straight" vs "crooked" paths draws on both biblical and secular ideas of order and morality ([14:03]).

4. What Authorities Feared: Sex, Selfhood, Disorder, and Urban Nightlife

• Sexuality Across Contexts: Sex that falls outside "proper" bounds is a central concern across all cities, more so than issues like alcohol—even during Prohibition in New York ([21:10]).
• Underlying Anxiety: At root, Steinberg finds a profound anxiety over uncontrolled selfhood—autonomy, pleasure, disorder, and the threat of self-fulfillment outside prescribed boundaries ([21:10]).
• Nightlife on the Margins: Authorities were deeply troubled by urban nightlife—dancing (especially to jazz), interracial mingling, visible homosexuality, women smoking and swearing—that signaled both pleasure and social disorder ([26:14]).
• Prostitution as a Problematic Category: Efforts to distinguish "real" prostitutes from women simply enjoying themselves highlights the difficulty of drawing boundaries and the ambiguities inherent in policing morality ([26:14]).

“Are they prostitutes? Even professional anti-prostitution vice squad people said, I can’t tell if they’re prostitutes or they’re just women having a good time, wild women, wayward women, but not professional prostitutes.”
— Mark Steinberg ([26:14])

5. Gender, Dress, and Modernity

• Similarity Across Cities: Despite different political systems—I.e., Soviet promotion of women’s liberation vs. traditional patriarchal frameworks—women in each city pursued autonomy, economic rationality, freedom of dress, and sexual agency ([33:39]).
• Women’s Voices: Steinberg recounts stories where women cast their choices (e.g., dancing, paid sex) as rational strategies or expressions of modernity rather than deviance ([33:39]).

6. Hooligans and Gangsters: Masculinity, Violence, and Popular Fascination

• Hooliganism (Odessa): Refers to disruptive, often violent, irrational street behavior—frequently coded as working-class male transgression and a sign of uncivilized masculinity ([38:00]).
• Gangsters (Bombay and Odessa): Unlike hooligans, gangsters are seen as more disciplined, organized, and even admired. Their moral ambiguity and the public’s fascination echo popular culture’s enduring love of outlaws ([41:38]).
• Ambiguity and Enjoyment: Public narratives both condemned and celebrated notorious figures, with court trials becoming popular entertainment ([47:02]).

“The real amazing thing... is the sort of ambivalence, the ambiguity of moral storytelling at the... By journalists and others... is the admiration for gangsters. The pleasure in reading their stories.”
— Mark Steinberg ([41:38])

Memorable Courtroom Story (Bombay)

• Babu Chasmuala, Bombay Watchmaker-Gangster: Master of disguise, eloquent self-defense, ran elaborate scams, and observed a moral code (“polite to women, no violence unless necessary”). Both media and public were captivated by his exploits ([47:02]).

7. The Compulsion to List, Catalogue, and Classify

• Obsessive List-Making: Investigators and authorities in all cities produced detailed lists to categorize types of deviant behavior, prostitution, etc., attempting to impose order on intractable complexity ([52:06]).
• The Limits of Control: The sheer proliferation of terms and definitions reveals the futility of trying to fix identities or control urban life—social reality always exceeds such efforts ([52:06]).

“List-making as an act of power, knowledge and power, but also all the multiple terms... attempt to account for all the ways in which those terms aren’t working.”
— Mark Steinberg ([52:06])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Language:
  “Even the vocabulary becomes sort of wild.” — Mark Steinberg ([14:03])
• On Subaltern Voices:
  “This is a way of getting at that through looking at their stories and what we have of it.” — Mark Steinberg ([08:27])
• On Gendered Modernity:
  “Women are seeking choice. Women are seeking freedom, whether it is in smoking or dancing or the clothes they wear or when they go out at night, and with whom.” — Mark Steinberg ([33:39])
• On Gangsters and Ambiguity:
  “There’s still a sort of appeal about it... It’s like, why are we attracted to people who reject the law, who reject normativity, who are local powers and the gangster.” — Mark Steinberg ([41:38])
• On List-Making:
  “Trying to... create a social, behavioral, moral catalog of urban life. And they keep discovering how impossible it is.” — Mark Steinberg ([52:06])
• On the Irresistible Ambiguity of Moral Storytelling:
  “I don’t want to romanticize it, but I also don’t want to say there’s a simple binary of moralists and deviants. It’s ambiguous, you know, all the way down.” — Mark Steinberg ([50:46])

Timestamps of Key Segments

• Motivation & Comparative Approach: [01:32] – [08:50]
• "Moral Storytelling" Defined: [04:00] – [08:27]
• Choice and Rationale Behind the Three Cities: [08:50] – [13:01]
• Language and Morality ("Wayward," "Wild"): [14:03] – [19:48]
• Discussion of Sex, Selfhood, and Nightlife: [21:10] – [26:14]
• Women's Behavior, Gender, and Dress: [33:39]
• Hooligans, Masculinity and Bombay’s Gangsters: [38:00] – [47:02]
• Famous Gangster Anecdote (Babu Chasmuala): [47:02]
• Ambiguity and List-Making: [52:06]
• Speculative, Future Work on Migrant Stories: [56:44]

Conclusion & Future Work

Dr. Steinberg’s forthcoming project will explore “migrant stories,” with a speculative, imaginative approach rooted in real family histories and the experiences of ordinary migrants—a natural outgrowth of his fascination with cities, storytelling, and the possibilities of narrative history ([56:44]).

For More

Explore the full range of ambiguous and fascinating stories in Moral Storytelling in 1920s New York, Odessa, and Bombay (Bloomsbury, 2026).