Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Dr. Miranda Melcher
Guest: Martyn Whittock
Episode: Vikings in the East: From Vladimir the Great to Vladimir Putin – The Origins of a Contested Legacy in Russia and Ukraine
Date: October 19, 2025
Publisher: Biteback Publishing

Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Dr. Miranda Melcher speaks with historian Martyn Whittock about his new book, "Vikings in the East". The conversation traces the extraordinary Norse influence on the lands that would become Russia and Ukraine, beginning with early medieval Viking—specifically Swedish Norse—expansion, and extending to the cultural and political legacies that persist in Russian and Ukrainian identities up to Vladimir Putin’s present regime. Whittock discusses not only the remarkable history of the Viking presence in the East but also how these ancient narratives continue to be invoked and contested in modern politics.

Introduction and Motivation

• Martyn Whittock’s Background & ‘Deep Stories’
  • Whittock introduces himself as a career secondary (high school) history educator (02:58). He explains his focus on "deep stories": exploring how the past is used (and misused) to frame identities and modern politics.
  • “I’ve become increasingly interested in… the ways by which we use, sometimes abuse the past in order to frame modern identities.” (04:18, Whittock)
  • Previous books explored these themes in US and Viking contexts, centering on the impact of myth and historical narrative on culture and identity.

Who Were the Vikings in the East?

• Defining ‘Vikings’ and Norse Identity (05:53)
  • “Technically speaking, we should probably call them the Norse, because Viking is something that you did rather than something that you were…” (05:59, Whittock)
  • The Viking eastward movement originated mainly from Swedish Norse (not ‘nations’ as we know them but chieftain-led groups).
  • Not organized state expansion but “freewheeling pioneers, groups of settlers, those who gather around dominant military leaders…” (09:10, Whittock).
  • The context was “much more fluid and much more fragmented compared to what will come later on in the Middle Ages.” (09:50, Whittock)

The Push East: Exploration, Trade, and Technology

• Long-Established Trading Links (10:46)
  • Even before the Viking ‘age’, there were deep trading links eastward, including the flow of Islamic silver into Scandinavia in exchange for goods and slaves.
  • When silver supplies were disrupted in the 8th century, Norse traders moved “to make direct contact with the Islamic Caliphate in order to maximize their profits.” (12:11, Whittock)
  • Artefacts, such as Arab silver dirhams, evidence the scale of the trade.
• How Did They Travel? (13:30)
  • Not “dragon proud longships of Hollywood imagery,” but chunkier boats for trading (13:44).
  • Once inland, they used locally built logboats and, in winter, sledges over frozen rivers.
  • “We need to think about them using the river systems, but not necessarily always in the summer… experimental archaeology has shown how rapidly these distances can be covered on sledge…” (15:40, Whittock)
  • By the 10th century, Norse traders were plugged “into the western end of the Silk Roads,” moving goods and people (including slaves) between Scandinavia, Byzantium, and the Islamic world. (16:56)

The Formation of the Rus State

• From Settlers to Rulers (18:06)
  • Norse groups established trading bases in Northwestern Russia, gradually expanding south.
  • Legends (e.g., from the Russian Primary Chronicle) recount semi-mythical Norse figures founding settlements like Novgorod and Kyiv, then amalgamating into a loosely connected polity—the early “Rus” (19:27–22:50).
  • “By the middle of the 10th century, we can talk of something which we call the princedom of the Rus, covering a huge geographical area… under this overall arching control of the rulers of Kyiv.” (22:40, Whittock)

Interactions with Byzantium and the Islamic World

• Constantinople: Trade, Raid, and Alliance (24:27)
  • Byzantium (Constantinople) captured the “Scandinavian imagination”: a source of “fabulous wealth” and political legitimacy.
  • Rus–Byzantine relations ranged from violent raids to tightly controlled trade.
  • “We see raids on Constantinople… but also using force to try to create trading arrangements. So it’s kind of negotiation by violence as well.” (25:19, Whittock)
  • Norsemen also served in the elite Varangian Guard.
• Islamic Caliphate & Expansive Trade Networks (29:22)
  • Incredible reach: “Rus traders turning up in Baghdad on camels” (29:36, Whittock; see notable quote below).
  • Viking goods, such as a Buddha statue from Swat Valley (modern-day Pakistan), signify the breadth of East–West interaction.
  • “This challenges us to seeing it as something that connects right across into eastern Eurasia... even perhaps the Khaganate of the Uyghurs.” (31:54, Whittock)

Cultural Adaptation and Change

• Blending with Local Cultures (33:20)
  • The Norse in these regions rapidly became “chameleon and very flexible,” often assimilating Slavic names, languages, and deities for pragmatic reasons.
  • “There simply are not enough Norse to maintain a solidly recognizable Norse community… what we’re seeing is a hybrid Norse-Slavic culture emerge.” (34:15, Whittock)
• Lasting Connections
  • Even as the Norse were absorbed, their connections remained significant for centuries, e.g., English royal exiles reaching the Rus and Norse princes serving across Eurasia (36:20–37:19).

The Mongol Invasion and Emerging Myths

• Destruction and Legacy (38:21)
  • The Mongol invasion (1240) devastated Kyiv and shifted the balance of power.
  • Yet post-destruction, some local autonomy was possible under Mongol rule—a “Pax Mongolica” that further linked East and West (39:41).
• Historiography and Myth-making (43:20)
  • Ideas like the “Mongol yoke”, “Holy Rus” (the idea of a sacred Orthodox state), and the narrative of the “ungrateful West” took root.
  • These myths positioned Russia as Europe’s shield and inheritor of true Christian culture.
  • “Holy Russia... this sense in which, you know, the west is seen as being barbarians, heretics. Real Orthodoxy resides only in Eastern Orthodoxy…” (44:28, Whittock)
  • These themes were later manipulated for political legitimacy, first by tsars and later by Soviets and Putin.

The Long Twentieth and Twenty-First Century Shadow

• Imperial and Modern Adaptations (47:47–54:50)
  • Tsars claimed the “rights” to lands like Ukraine as successors of Kievan Rus, deploying the image of unity/restoration.
  • The Cossack revolts and later the annexation of Crimea (1783) were framed as rightful reunifications.
• The Normanist Debate and the Use of Viking Origins (52:19–56:46)
  • The question of the ‘foreignness’ of the Rus founders has swung based on political need—from being suppressed under Stalin to revived under Putin as a way of connecting Russia to “true” European roots.
  • Putin invokes the Viking heritage and the baptism of Vladimir the Great (whose statue he erected in Moscow) to assert Russia’s claim over Ukraine and status as guardian of authentic European tradition.
    • Quote: “Russia is now the repository of true European values. And therefore Vikings have a walk-on part to play there.” (56:46, Whittock)

Takeaways for the Present and Future

• The Power and Peril of ‘Deep Stories’
  • “We are deeply indebted to our history… but we are never prisoners of our history. We are still people with agency…” (58:55, Whittock)
  • Understanding how the past is used enables a more critical perspective on present events, especially in the context of the Russian-Ukrainian conflict and nationalist myth-making.

Notable Quotes

• “Viking is something that you did rather than something that you were.” (05:59, Martyn Whittock)
• “We see raids on Constantinople… but also using force to try to create trading arrangements. So it’s kind of negotiation by violence as well.” (25:19, Martyn Whittock)
• “Rus traders turning up in Baghdad on camels… that is really quite extraordinary and certainly not how we imagine it.” (29:36, Martyn Whittock)
• “We are deeply indebted to our history… but we are never prisoners of our history.” (58:55, Martyn Whittock)
• “That Russia is now the repository of true European values. And therefore Vikings have a walk-on part to play there.” (56:46, Martyn Whittock)

Important Timestamps

• 02:58 – Whittock on his background and concept of “deep stories"
• 05:53 – Defining ‘Vikings’ and Norse expansion east
• 10:46 – Trade routes and Viking adaptation to the East
• 18:06 – Formation of the Rus state from Norse settlements
• 24:27 – Complexity of Rus–Byzantium relations
• 29:22 – Norse traders’ reach to Baghdad and beyond
• 33:20 – Cultural assimilation and hybrid identities
• 38:21 – The Mongol conquest and layered legacies
• 43:38 – The rise of “Holy Russia” and invention of tradition
• 47:47 – How Russian rulers used (and use) these myths to claim Ukraine
• 52:19 – The Normanist debate and uses of Viking heritage
• 58:55 – Concluding thoughts: agency and the ongoing use of history

Looking Forward

• Whittock’s next project will explore the invention of “Englishness” from 600–1600 CE, analyzing how foundational myths and identities are created and adapted (61:04).

For listeners:
This episode presents a sweeping, accessible look at how early medieval Norse adventurism and commerce fundamentally shaped the identity, politics, and contested narratives of Russia and Ukraine. With a focus on myth, adaptation, and the power of history, Whittock’s analysis is essential listening for anyone who wants to understand how the past still shapes the most urgent political questions today.