New Books Network — Interview with Matthew Davis, Author of "A Biography of a Mountain: The Making and Meaning of Mount Rushmore" (St. Martin's Press, 2025)

Date: January 4, 2026
Host: Stephen Hausman
Guest: Matthew Davis

Overview

In this episode, Stephen Hausman interviews Matthew Davis about his new book, A Biography of a Mountain: The Making and Meaning of Mount Rushmore. The conversation delves into the layered history and enduring symbolism of Mount Rushmore, examining its origins, the personal and political motivations behind its creation, and its ongoing contested status in American culture and Indigenous history. Davis shares his unique research and writerly perspective, exploring complexities of place, memory, and national myth.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Matthew Davis’s Background and Approach

• Journalistic and Creative Roots

  • Davis’s background melds journalism, creative writing, and international relations.
  • Key formative moment was hearing writer William Least Heat-Moon ask students to imagine the deep history of the land they sat on, inspiring Davis’s emphasis on place in nonfiction.
    (04:00)

• Perspective as an Outsider

  • Not a formally trained historian, Davis approaches history through deep research and a focus on the stories places tell.
  • His work foregrounds the complexity and multiplicity of histories tied to physical landscapes.
    (05:30)

• Personal Motivations

  • The 2020 political climate, including Black Lives Matter protests and debates over monuments, sparked Davis’s interest in how American history is memorialized.
  • Trump's 2020 speech at Mount Rushmore amid national unrest catalyzed his inquiry into the monument's significance.
    (07:44)

"The larger question became, why did he decide to give that speech at Mount Rushmore? What was it about those four granite faces that literally framed his speech?"
— Matthew Davis (09:35)

2. Relationship to the Black Hills

• Acknowledging Positionality

  • Davis is transparent about his status as a non-Native, non-local writer, foregrounding the importance of being upfront about one’s perspective.
  • He notes the deep, inextricable ties that both Indigenous and settler-descended families have to the region, which inform responses to its history.
    (12:37)

• Building Community

  • While maintaining an outsider’s distance, research trips built a sense of connection to the area’s people and culture.

3. The Black Hills: Landscape and First Impressions

• Geographical Context

  • The Black Hills rise abruptly from the prairie, appearing as a “black oasis” due to dense ponderosa pines.
  • The region is marked by billion-year-old granite outcrops and a near-continuous canopy of forest, creating a compact, distinct terrain.
    (16:56)

• Array of Visitors

  • In peak season, Mount Rushmore draws a remarkably diverse cross-section of Americans and international tourists.
  • The area juxtaposes pageantry, patriotism, kitschy Americana, and, at times, spaces for contemplation.
    (19:00)

"You are just as likely to see someone in a MAGA hat as you are...with a shirt that says 'Original Homeland Security'...all in the same place."
— Stephen Hausman (22:24)

4. Deep History and Indigenous Presence

• Long Human Occupation

  • Archaeological evidence suggests continuous human presence in the Black Hills for at least 15,000 years.
  • Lakota people call the region “the heart of everything that is,” considering it spiritually, cosmologically, and practically central to their history.
    (24:27)

• Sacred Sites and Subsistence

  • Sites like Wind Cave are incorporated into Lakota origin stories.
  • The Black Hills provided food, medicine, and other essentials for Indigenous nations.

5. 19th Century: Conflicts and U.S. Seizure

• The Treaty and the Gold Rush
  • 1868 Treaty of Fort Laramie granted the Lakota control over the region.
  • 1874: Custer’s expedition led to gold discovery, triggering a rush of miners and breaking the treaty.
  • U.S. eventually annexed the Black Hills after military defeat and resurgence.
    (28:02)

"From that moment on, the Black Hills are occupied, taken over by the United States. The Lakota have maintained for over a hundred years that the United States broke that treaty illegally...The American legal system has agreed with them."
— Matthew Davis (32:35)

6. Early 20th Century Origins of Mount Rushmore

• Economic Motivation
  • State historian Doane Robinson, concerned about South Dakota’s economic stagnation, sought to attract tourists by commissioning a colossal monument.
  • Robinson’s initial vision included Western icons like Red Cloud, Sacagawea, and Custer.
    (33:48)

"What’s interesting about this origin story is that it’s very economic-centric and it’s very apolitical in a way."
— Matthew Davis (35:38)

• Borglum’s Arrival
  • Gutzon Borglum, famed sculptor with a turbulent past, was eventually chosen and radically adapted the project's symbolism.

7. Gutzon Borglum: The Sculptor’s Personal and Political Vision

• Contradictory Figure
  • Borglum’s personal history included family trauma, iconoclastic artistic ambitions, a complicated relationship with the KKK, and extreme American nationalist beliefs.
  • His prior work at Stone Mountain profoundly influenced Mount Rushmore’s design and ideological message.
    (36:56)

"Without Stone Mountain, there is no Mount Rushmore."
— Matthew Davis (44:22)

• Shift from Local Attraction to National Symbol
  • Borglum imbued the project with themes of American exceptionalism, empire, and progress, moving away from Robinson’s original, more regional idea.

8. Carving the Monument: Process and Workforce

• Technical Innovation and Labor
  • The carving used dynamite and a traditional ‘pointing system’ to scale from model to mountain.
  • Workers—mostly local miners, ranchers, and unemployed men—took pride in the dangerous and demanding work.
    (45:20)

"What they had a lot of was gumption...It’s not for everyone; some people were really too afraid to go into these chairs and dangle hundreds of feet above the ground and carve."
— Matthew Davis (47:30)

• Community and Camaraderie
  • Many laborers considered their work a highlight of their lives, despite the hazards and long-term health impacts.
    (48:58)

9. Mount Rushmore’s Evolving Complexity

• History of Protest and Contestation

  • The rise of Native American activism, notably since the 1970s, brought new national attention to the monument’s contested place.
  • The Supreme Court’s 1980 ruling (ordering remuneration to the Lakota for the wrongful seizure) remains unresolved as the Lakota refuse monetary settlement, insisting on land return.
    (51:19)

• Narrative Shifts

  • Early on, Rushmore omitted almost all Native American context.
  • Gerard Baker became the first Native American superintendent and brought a more inclusive perspective, though questions remain whether these efforts go far enough.

"If you’re going to tell the Rushmore story properly, people are going to leave upset because it’s an upsetting story."
— Matthew Davis paraphrasing Gerard Baker (53:30)

• Contemporary Challenges
  • The site now acknowledges some complexity but still lionizes Borglum, often omitting his problematic political ties.

10. The Future of Mount Rushmore

• Debate over Alteration or Addition
  • Persistent speculation about adding new faces (e.g., Trump) or removing the monument entirely.
  • Some propose letting the monument fade and supplementing the site with comprehensive interpretive materials.

"The best idea that I’ve heard...was just to stop managing it, to let the memorial just fade, [and instead] have a lot of interpretive programs that talk about how Mount Rushmore came to be, its place in the Black Hills, the history we just were talking about..."
— Matthew Davis (57:43)

• Small Steps in Interpretation
  • Recent updates to educational materials reflect a growing (if incomplete) willingness to address the monument’s complexities.

11. Memorials and Collective Memory

• Changing Meanings
  • Davis hopes readers take away the insight that monuments are not static: their meanings shift as society and historical understandings evolve.

"Even though our national memorials and monuments are either carved into granite or made of marble or concrete...their meanings are not static and they evolve a great deal."
— Matthew Davis (61:55)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the Outsider’s Role:
  "There is a complexity of emotion that is there that is very tied to not just the land, but to the history of the land that people in that region have that I could never be able to tap into."
  — Matthew Davis (13:53)

• On Mount Rushmore as a Rorschach Test:
  "You look at it and you see sort of whatever it is that you are primed to see, at least at the outset."
  — Stephen Hausman (22:24)

• On the Black Hills as Sacred:
  "It was the central location for them spiritually, practically...Their origin story is from there."
  — Matthew Davis (25:45)

• On the Persistence of the Past:
  "The American part of the story is only the most recent part of the story."
  — Matthew Davis (27:45)

• On Complicating the Narrative:
  "I think that to sort of disregard the politics behind all this stuff is just a missed opportunity."
  — Matthew Davis (60:22)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Background and Methodology – 02:48 to 06:50
• Why Mount Rushmore? – 07:44 to 11:47
• Outsider Perspective / Positionality – 12:37 to 15:57
• Describing the Black Hills – 16:56 to 22:24
• Native History/Spirituality – 24:27 to 27:47
• US Seizure of Black Hills – 28:02 to 33:14
• Origins of the Monument – 33:48 to 36:25
• Gutzon Borglum’s Biography and Influence – 36:56 to 45:01
• The Building Process / Workers – 45:20 to 50:33
• Late 20th & 21st Century Debates – 51:19 to 56:31
• Futures for Mount Rushmore – 57:43 to 60:14
• Final Reflections—Meaning of Memorials – 61:55 to 63:15

Further Projects

• Davis is relocating to London and may collaborate on another Black Hills project in the future, still in early planning.
  (63:38)

This summary captures the full depth and nuance of the discussion, foregrounding how Mount Rushmore’s biography is intertwined with the tumultuous histories of the Black Hills, the contradictions of its creators, and the evolving narratives of American identity.