Podcast Summary:

New Books Network — Interview with Melissa Adler

Episode: Melissa Adler, "Peculiar Satisfaction: Thomas Jefferson and the Mastery of Subjects" (Fordham UP, 2025)
Host: Jen Hoyer
Date: January 27, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode features a conversation between host Jen Hoyer and Melissa Adler, author of Peculiar Satisfaction: Thomas Jefferson and the Mastery of Subjects. As the United States approaches the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Adler’s book critically examines Thomas Jefferson’s lasting influence on libraries, archives, and museums. It addresses how the ideals and contradictions of the nation’s founding persist within knowledge organization systems, and how Jefferson’s methods of cataloguing and classification both reflected and reinforced racial and ideological hierarchies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Melissa Adler’s Background and Journey to the Book

• Influence of Family and Early Career:
  Adler describes her formative experiences with libraries through her grandmother (a librarian) and father, and traces her academic and professional journey through various Wisconsin towns, culminating in her PhD at the University of Wisconsin–Madison.
  Quote:

  "We did have libraries, and my dad took me to the public library all the time. And my grandmother actually was a librarian…So that was absolutely formative for me." (02:54)

• Initial Encounters with Classification Issues:
  Working as both librarian and archivist, Adler began noticing problematic subject authorities, particularly regarding gendered categories (e.g., “women accountants” but not “male accountants”), sparking her ongoing interest in critical cataloguing.
  Quote:

  "I started to keep a log of these cases of, you know, other categories or women accountants, but not male accountants, things like that. So...something I learned on the job that was a problem." (04:04)

• PhD Research and First Book:
  Her doctoral research addressed the history of sexuality through library subject headings, leading to her first book, Cruising the Library.

2. Motivation Behind Focusing on Thomas Jefferson

• From Article to Obsession:
  Originally conceived as an article on Jefferson’s library and classification, Adler’s research uncovered extensive patterns, particularly emergent categories for race and gender, leading to an eight-year research project. Quote:

  "I thought I was going to write this article...that would say, yes, we can trace and find some connections between our current catalog, the Library of Congress classifications, and Jefferson's." (09:28)

• Uniqueness of Jefferson’s Information Practices:
  Scholars, Adler notes, haven't focused centrally on Jefferson’s contributions to information infrastructure and management, despite their impact on national institutions.
  Quote:

  "No one’s really done a work on Jefferson information management techniques...there’s a lot to be said about this." (11:31)

3. Framework: Documents as Monuments

• Monumentality and Information Infrastructure:
  Adler employs the idea of “documents as monuments,” linking Jefferson’s own metaphorical usage to the enduring structures of libraries and archives. She argues these systems were built to universalize whiteness and patriarchy, with marginalized groups relegated to the periphery. Quote:

  "...the fact that that still exists today, the condition of the universalization of whiteness, the universalization of man...is still in the structures that we have today in our libraries and also online in our algorithms." (13:16)

• Debate over Addressing Problematic Classifications:
  Adler explores whether to “fix, melt down, or contextualize” these knowledge organization systems, noting the difficulty of reclassification and the ongoing debates surrounding corrections (drawing on Emily Drabinski’s work). Quote:

  "...if we change it...that's a useful project. But our terminologies...are going to change over time. And fundamentally, it's really hard to change the structure..." (15:27)

• Jefferson's Own Words:
  Adler reads a passage from Jefferson linking monuments and the endurance of the Republic. Quote, Jefferson:

  “A just and solid Republican government maintained here will be a standing monument and example for the aim and imitation of the people of other countries.” (16:59)

  This segues into how information infrastructures themselves are “monuments,” not only to democratic ideals but to the exclusion baked into their formation.

4. Section I — Jefferson’s Archival Impulse

• Archiving as Nation-Building:
  While scholarship often focuses on European (especially French) archival traditions, Adler highlights Jefferson’s role in documenting and preserving the American founding.
  Quote:

  "He knew that preserving that history was essential for the durability of that democracy...He documented every aspect of his life." (21:08)

• Technological Enthusiasm:
  Jefferson’s excitement for new copying technologies (e.g., copy press, polygraph) reinforced his archival aims and showed his awareness of writing for posterity. Notable Detail:
  Jefferson wrote thousands of letters, using innovations to duplicate and archive them. (21:54)

• Notes on the State of Virginia as Archive:
  Jefferson’s only published book exemplified his method of collecting and preserving knowledge for future generations.

5. Section II — Libraries, Classification, and the Mastery of Subjects

• The “Blueprint of His Own Mind”:
  Jefferson’s cataloguing built upon Bacon’s faculties (memory, reason, imagination) and French encyclopedic models. His system was personal but had lasting public impact. Quote:

  "Jefferson's library should be considered a blueprint of his own mind." (25:23)

• Personal and Social Context:
  Adler references connections drawn by earlier scholars between periods of personal turmoil (such as Jefferson’s wife’s death) and his information practices.

• Patterns of Racialization and Marginalization:
  Analysis reveals intentional marginalization within his classifications:

  • Slavery: Books on slavery are grouped within “ethics.”
  • Black and Indigenous Authors: E.g., Ignatius Sancho’s real letters are categorized as fiction, not history, signaling “a technique of marginalization, of racialization, of othering at the level of information architecture.” (33:26)
  • Indigenous Subjects: Works concerning Indigenous peoples are classified under “geography” rather than history, echoing later Library of Congress practices of placing “Indians of North America” in a prehistorical section to serve the “vanishing Indian” narrative. (34:52)

6. Section III — Museums and “Thingification”

• Specimen Collections and the Thingification of Life:
  Drawing on Aimé Césaire’s concept, Adler discusses how museum practices—backed by Jefferson’s approach—reduced both animal and (by implication) human lives to objects for classification and display. Quote:

  "...taking life out of its habitat and turning it into something like a utility for human use, an informational object to be studied, examined, viewed, exhibited..." (37:26)

• Canonical Theories in LIS (Library & Information Studies):
  Adler critiques the foundational LIS notion of “information as thing” (referencing Suzanne Briet’s antelope example and Michael Buckland’s writings), noting its colonial and extractive underpinnings.

• Jefferson’s Specimen Practices:
  Through the story of the “antelope” (later recognized as a pronghorn), Adler highlights how Jefferson’s information practices intersected with colonial exploitation, natural history, and erasure of Indigenous knowledge.

7. Contemporary Relevance & Reflection

• Role of Information Institutions in Democracy:
  Adler emphasizes that libraries, archives, and museums, despite their contradictions, are key sites for expanding democracy and civic engagement, making them targets for anti-democratic movements. Quote:

  "Libraries, archives, and museums are, I think, places where democracy is expanding. These are places where drag queen story hours are happening, where we are displaying books on really difficult questions and problems in society and putting them in the hands of readers." (44:51)

• Cautious Hope and Call to Action:
  Drawing on current events and broader political trends, Adler stresses the need to defend and reimagine these institutions.
  Notable Reference:
  Timothy Snyder’s advice — “choose an institution that you care about and defend it.” (46:54)

8. Ongoing and Future Research

• Current Projects:
  Adler is engaged in both creative and critical projects, including:
  • A grant-funded project titled “What the Antelope Knows” bringing together Indigenous and non-Indigenous scholars and artists to discuss documentary traditions.
  • Building a solar-powered digital archive with Indigenous collaborators.
  • A book on the concept of “instauration” (with Jack Kaush), tracing early American institutional history through Francis Bacon and Bruno Latour.
  • A project on libraries as “thresholds” between public and private spheres (with Greg Nightingale).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the tenacity of information structures:

  "Our terminologies and everything...they're going to change over time. And fundamentally, it's really hard to change the structure..."
  (15:27, Melissa Adler)

• Jefferson on monuments and government:

  “A just and solid Republican government maintained here will be a standing monument and example for the aim and imitation of the people of other countries.”
  (16:59, Melissa Adler reading Jefferson)

• On classification as marginalization:

  "These classificatory choices were intentional...that signals a technique of marginalization, of racialization, of othering at the level of information architecture."
  (33:26, Melissa Adler)

• On why libraries, archives, and museums matter:

  "At the end of the day, these institutions are based in the idea that information in the hands of the people will hopefully contribute to greater participation in our democracy..."
  (45:00, Melissa Adler)

• Guidance for the present:

  “To guard against tyranny, choose an institution that you care about and defend it.”
  (46:54, Timothy Snyder as quoted by Melissa Adler)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:49 — Melissa Adler shares her background and how she entered Library and Information Science.
• 09:03 — Adler discusses the shift from a small article on Jefferson to a major, multi-year research project.
• 12:38 — Introduction of the “documents as monuments” framework.
• 20:36 — Jefferson’s archival impulses and influence on U.S. archival practices.
• 25:07 — Discussion of Jefferson’s library as a reflection of his worldview, including racial and gender classifications.
• 33:26 — Example of intentional marginalization in Jefferson's catalog (e.g., the placement of Ignatius Sancho).
• 36:26 — "Thingification" in Jefferson’s specimen collection and its implications for museums and documentation studies.
• 44:25 — Reflections on the contemporary relevance of information institutions and hope for their future.
• 48:22 — Adler discusses ongoing and upcoming research projects.

Concluding Thoughts

Melissa Adler’s Peculiar Satisfaction offers a nuanced and critical exploration of how Thomas Jefferson’s ideals and contradictions are embedded in the information infrastructures still shaping American society. Through archives, libraries, and museums, Jefferson’s organizational choices endure as both tools for democracy and monuments to exclusion and hierarchy. Adler calls for a reflective, active defense of these institutions as sites where democracy can—if vigilantly tended—expand to include all.