Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network

Host: Ryan Tripp
Guest: Michael B. Cosmopoulos, Endowed Chair and Professor of Archaeology at University of Missouri–St. Louis
Episode: Michael B. Cosmopoulos, The World of Homer: Archaeology, Social Memory, and the Emergence of Greek Epic Poetry (Cambridge UP, 2025)
Date: October 24, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode centers on Michael B. Cosmopoulos’s newly published book, The World of Homer: Archaeology, Social Memory, and the Emergence of Greek Epic Poetry. Cosmopoulos, drawing on his background both as an Athenian and a leading archaeologist, explores how Homeric epics emerged from a long process of oral tradition, interwoven with the social, economic, and cultural realities of Mycenaean and early Iron Age Greece. The conversation traverses ancient and modern treatments of Homer, the roots of Greek epic, archaeological evidence, the evolution of social memory, and how material remains and stories interact in constructing collective identity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Motivations and Book Structure

Timestamps: [01:54]–[04:48]

• Personal roots: Cosmopoulos describes growing up amid Athens’s monuments, being “raised with these stories” ([01:54]).
• Book as origin of a trilogy: The current volume reconstructs the socio-political and economic landscape of Homer’s world and investigates how epics were created. The second will address universal human experience (war and violence, influenced by his family’s WWII history); the third focuses on the link between Homer and archaeology.
• Aim: To both “learn more myself about Homer… and share this knowledge with my students, colleagues, and also with the wider public.” ([04:47])

2. Ancient & Later Treatments of Homer

Timestamps: [04:48]–[13:20]

• Early references: The first literary mentions of “Homer” appear in the late 6th century BC, centuries after the supposed author lived.
  • The “Homeridae” (Descendants of Homer) were a professional poets’ guild who likely invented “Homer” as a prestigious ancestor ([05:29]–[08:34]).
    • “It looks like the Homeridae invented a mythical... fictitious ancestor whom they called Homer after the name of their own guild rather than the opposite.” – Cosmopoulos ([06:51])
  • The name “Homer” (Hom-er) means “assembler” or “rhapsode” ([08:40]).
  • There’s no historical evidence for Homer’s existence, nor was Homer a given name in pre-Hellenistic Greece.
• Evolving interest & biographies: Early interest was in the poems, not the poet’s life; biographies only begin centuries later, relying entirely on fiction ([11:58]).
• Modern vs. ancient views: Over the centuries, as ideologies shifted, so did approaches to Homer, from Aristotle’s critical analysis ([13:20]), to medieval Christian reinterpretations, to Enlightenment-era debates about authorship.

3. From Oral Tradition to Epic Poetry

Timestamps: [13:20]–[20:01]

• Scholarly theories:
  • Oral-formulaic theory (Perry & Lord): Epics were composed and improvised during performance; every rendition was different.
  • The epics are seen as products of a crystallized oral tradition rather than works of a single author.
  • The “Wolfian” or analytical school (F.A. Wolf) highlighted inconsistencies, suggesting multiple composers; “Unitarians” argued for singular authorship.
  • “Neoanalysts” and later theorists detect layers and motifs derived from prior myths and cycles ([18:20]).
• Consensus: Most scholars view the epics as the product of a long, complex tradition rather than the creation of a single individual.

4. Archaeology & the Multilayered Sources of the Epics

Timestamps: [20:01]–[25:47]

• Mycenaean core: Elements in the poems date as far back as 1600–1100 BC (Mycenaean period), predating the formation of the epics ([20:01]).
• Epic cycles & other traditions: Iliad and Odyssey drew from a “pool” of stories that included now-lost epics.
  • “It looks like… both the epic cycles… and the Iliad and the Odyssey… derive from the same sort of pool of epic stories that floated around Greece during the end of the Mycenaean period.” – Cosmopoulos ([22:52])
• Influences: Aside from local traditions, there are links to Near Eastern, Anatolian, and Indo-European mythologies.

5. Bronze Age to Iron Age Continuities & the Trojan War

Timestamps: [25:47]–[33:26]

• Continuity not rupture: The collapse of palatial society did not interrupt cultural traditions, contrary to earlier scholarship. Everyday lives, economic structures, and poetic traditions outlasted palace administration.
• Historicizing the Trojan War:
  • Two main theories: pure invention serving Greek identity vs. echo of actual military conflicts between Mycenaeans and Anatolian powers.
  • Archaeological evidence at Troy (Hisarlik): Contested layers, with Troy VI and Troy VIIa as candidates for “Homeric Troy.”
• Hittite sources: References to “Wilusa” (Ilion/Troy) in Hittite texts suggest Mycenaean interest and possible conflict.

6. Society, Politics, and the Changing Meaning of Kingship

Timestamps: [33:26]–[39:28]

• Marriage, gender, and oikos: Homeric family structures blend Mycenaean and Iron Age elements.
• Kingly terms – anax and basileus: Anax (supreme leader, Mycenaean king) became rare; basileus (lower official in Mycenaean), rose to denote Iron Age chieftains.
  • “Terms changed meaning… but the terms themselves survived.” – Cosmopoulos ([36:13])
• The polis: Early references to city-states and civic identity (“demos,” “polis,” legal procedures in the shield of Achilles) foreshadow the classical polis.

7. Political Geography: The Catalogue of Ships

Timestamps: [39:28]–[46:33]

• Amalgamation of periods: The Catalogue of Ships (Iliad Book 2) provides a literary map mixing Mycenaean and later realities:
  • Some regions split into multiple kingdoms or reflect Iron Age rather than Bronze Age configurations (e.g., Argolid, Laconia).
  • The detailed correspondence of numbers of cities in Nestor’s kingdom between Linear B tablets and the epics indicates deep memory ([43:58]).
  • These details “just show… how powerful the kingdom of Nestor was,” not an attempt at historical accuracy ([45:15]).

8. Economic Continuities and Trade

Timestamps: [46:33]–[50:49]

• Three-part structure: Agropastoralism, trade, and industry in the epics.
  • Agropastoral practices tend to reflect Iron Age reality.
  • Trade: In Mycenaean times, largely palace-controlled; in the Iron Age/epics, portrayed as involving independent merchants (often Phoenicians).
  • Archaeological evidence: Shipwrecks (e.g., Uluburun) show both large- and small-scale trade.
• Class perceptions: Traders were often viewed with suspicion; Odysseus himself pretends to be a merchant ([49:51]).

9. Warfare: Material Culture and Memories

Timestamps: [50:49]–[56:11]

• Mix of Mycenaean and Iron Age: References to obsolete armor (boar's tusk helmets, Dendra armor, full-body shields), tactics, and weapons (bronze and iron).
  • “Borstusk's helmets disappeared… how would it survive in the epics?... as memories… found in graves… elements of Mycenaean poems survived and were incorporated in the epics." ([52:04]–[53:51])
• Chariots: Possibly used more as “battle taxis” than in actual fighting.
• Conclusion: Homeric warfare is a poetic construct, “an amalgamation of elements from different periods” ([55:25]).

10. Religion and Ritual

Timestamps: [56:11]–[60:12]

• Gods and sanctuary continuity: Many Olympian gods appear in Linear B, with some discrepancies (Aphrodite absent).
• Rituals: Practices such as sacrifice, festivals, and priesthoods have Mycenaean antecedents.
• Burial customs: Cremation in the epics reflects later practices, not Bronze Age norms.
  • “Again, amalgamation of different elements from different periods in the epics.” – Cosmopoulos ([59:43])

11. Memory, Social Memory, & the Landscape

Timestamps: [60:12]–[67:05]

• Memory as mechanism: Communal memory preserved traditions—poetry through performance (habitual memory), and stories/material remains (semantic/visual memory).
  • “The Lion Gate was never buried… ruins became the vehicles of stories and traditions.” ([62:56])
• Sites of memory: Ancient ruins served as focal points for social memory, reinforcing connections with the past.
• History vs. memory: The histories preserved are shaped by community needs at specific times—not objective records ([66:23]).

12. From Local to Panhellenic Epics: Performance & Standardization

Timestamps: [67:05]–[76:17]

• Composition and performance: Early epics created “from the bottom up,” with local versions that incorporated regional elements in performance.
  • “Poems are composed while they are being performed, based on feedback and interaction that the poet gets from the audience.” ([68:09])
• Top-down standardization: As religious festivals (Panathenaea, Panionia) grew in importance, epics were standardized for broader, inter-regional performance.
  • Pisistratus’s reforms at the Panathenaea (522 BC) key to this standardization and the eventual writing down of the poems ([70:56]).
• “Multiple Homers”: The tradition likely included many brilliant poets; subsequent attributions to “Homer” blur this collective genesis.
  • “There’s no real reason for us to believe that there was only one Homer... I think there were many. It’s just that they lived in an era where individual authors were not acknowledged.” – Cosmopoulos ([75:47])

13. What’s Next for Cosmopoulos

Timestamps: [76:17]–[78:42]

• Forthcoming books: The next volume explores the universal human experience in Homer, particularly war’s effects—shaped by his family's WWII experience.
• Archaeology and epic: His active fieldwork on a Homeric Mycenaean site allows him to connect poetry with archaeological reality.
  • “I am able to see the actual material world described in the epics coming out of the ground… connect the dots between archaeology and poetry.” ([77:21]–[77:44])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Homer’s identity:
  • “It looks like Homer was not a real historical personality. Homer was a fictitious character made by this guild to gain... prestige.” – Cosmopoulos ([07:59])
• On oral tradition:
  • “The main idea is that [the epics] are the final products of a long oral tradition… not created just out of the blue.” ([18:56])
• On cross-period blending:
  • “Homeric warfare is not a snapshot… but really an amalgamation of elements from different periods put together.” ([55:25])
• On memory and identity:
  • “The history reconstructed… is not necessarily objective history. It is... a mirror of a community’s ideas about its own identity and ideas about the past.” ([66:23])
• On poetic genesis:
  • “There’s no real reason... that there was only one Homer…. They lived in an era where individual authors were not acknowledged and their names are lost in the haze of early Greek history.” ([75:53])

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Origins & Motivation: [01:54]–[04:48]
• Ancient Treatments of Homer: [04:48]–[13:20]
• Oral Tradition and Epic Theories: [13:20]–[20:01]
• Archaeology & Sources: [20:01]–[25:47]
• Bronze to Iron Age & Trojan War: [25:47]–[33:26]
• Politics & Kingship: [33:26]–[39:28]
• Catalogue of Ships & Geography: [39:28]–[46:33]
• Economic Organization: [46:33]–[50:49]
• Warfare & Poetic Memory: [50:49]–[56:11]
• Religion & Rituals: [56:11]–[60:12]
• Memory & Landscape: [60:12]–[67:05]
• From Local Epic to Panhellenic Standard: [67:05]–[76:17]
• Next Projects: [76:17]–[78:42]

Episode Takeaways

• The Homeric epics are the product of a complex, centuries-long interplay of oral tradition, evolving historical memory, and cross-cultural exchanges.
• The idea of “Homer” as a single author is a fiction; the epics represent the work of many poets, blending history, myth, and societal values.
• Archaeology and textual analysis together illuminate how the Greek past was remembered, reinterpreted, and ultimately canonized in epic poetry that defines the civilization.