Episode Overview

This episode of the New Books Network’s French Studies channel, hosted by Gina Stam (Associate Professor of French, University of Alabama), features an in-depth interview with Michèle Schaal (Professor of French and Women's & Gender Studies, Iowa State University) on her latest monograph, Grrrl Writing: Virginie Despentes's Authorial Politics (Peter Lang, 2026). Schaal discusses her fascination and longstanding scholarly engagement with French author Virginie Despentes, unpacking the genesis of her project, the meaning behind the title, and her critical framework. The conversation dives into the significance of Despentes’s first three novels, exploring themes of gender, genre, violence, and the evolution of Despentes’s public reception and authorial stance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genesis of the Project (01:02–03:04)

• Personal and Scholarly Origins:
  • Schaal’s engagement with Despentes "goes back to my teenage years," when she saw the author on French TV—remarkable for being so "different from everyone else."
  • As a scholar, the project evolved from her graduate work, ultimately blossoming into an area of specialization. Schaal credits her inclusion in Jill Rye’s series as a decisive moment for the monograph.

Quote:
"I was already very intrigued by this person who absolutely did not look like any of the other literary guests." (Michelle Schaal, 01:30)

2. What Is "Grrrl Writing" and the Politics in the Title? (03:04–04:15)

• Significance of the Spelling “Grrrl”:
  • Directly linked to the 1990s Riot Grrrl punk movement in the US and third-wave feminism.
  • Schaal argues Despentes’s literary ethos is "punk-infused," reflecting both American and French feminist trajectories.
• Subject of Volume One:
  • Focuses on Despentes’s first three novels, exploring her initial authorial politics and establishment as a literary voice.

Quote:
"The punk expression at play in Riot Grrrl, I could really see it also playing out in Despentes’s approach to literature that is, of course, punk infused..." (Michelle Schaal, 03:33)

3. Division of the Book’s Corpus (04:15–05:20)

• Two-Volume Approach:
  • Originally intended to cover all seven novels, the scope expanded with Despentes’s newer works. Schaal and her editor decided to separate the "beginnings and establishment" from the "development" of Despentes’s fiction for clarity and depth.

4. Despentes’s Biography, Reception & Public Persona (05:20–08:16)

• Interplay of Life, Work, and Reception:
  • Schaal maintains that while one must avoid conflating biography and fiction, certain foundational experiences for Despentes are crucial for understanding her literary evolution.
  • The drastic shift in Despentes’s reception is highlighted: from being "absolutely rejected by mainstream audiences" to ultimately celebrated for those very traits.
  • A bio-bibliography in the monograph aims to make Despentes accessible for broader, interdisciplinary audiences.

Quote:
"I was literally told that I had no future if I studied Despentes, that she would never amount to anything, and neither would I if I persisted..." (Michelle Schaal, 07:22)

5. Theoretical Framework: Heteropatriarchy, Gender Bending, Punk (08:16–13:46)

• Term Definitions for a General Audience:
  • Heteropatriarchy: Not just about gender or sexuality, but includes race, class, economy, and kinship—"a tentacular system."
  • Punk: More than music—an alternative way of life and political/cultural movement that challenges norms.
  • Gender Bending: Traced to 1960s queer praxis (“gender fuck”), emphasizing the performative and constructed nature of gender.
• Importance:
  • Schaal underscores the need to define/ contextualize these flexible terms for readers outside niche feminist theory circles.

Memorable Moment:
"It’s not just about gender, it’s not just about sexuality, but it’s also about the economy... It really is more. More than just, sorry, than just gender or sexuality." (Michelle Schaal, 10:55)

6. Deep Dives into Despentes’s Novels

a. Baise-moi and the Picaresque (13:46–16:41)

• Violence and Genre:
  • Schaal reads Baise-moi as picaresque—focusing on "the downtrodden... a critique of mainstream society."
  • Points out the way Despentes employs violence through marginalized female protagonists as a mode of agency, albeit "problematic."

Quote:
"The political cannot be separated from the literary in Despentes’s fiction..." (Michelle Schaal, 14:08)

b. Responding to Criticism of Violence (17:10–19:11)

• Double Standards:
  • Schaal and Despentes note that explicit violence in male-authored works (e.g., Marquis de Sade) is accepted as canonical, while Despentes’s is policed.
  • Argues violence in Baise-moi is a way to highlight the violence inflicted by society on marginalized women.

Quote:
"It is definitely... several double standards at play in the critique against Baise-moi." (Michelle Schaal, 17:48)

c. Les Chiennes Savantes and Noir (19:11–24:34)

• Genre Play:
  • Not widely discussed, this novel appropriates the hardboiled/noir genre to expose "how heteropatriarchy always triumphs because of the internalization of those standards by women."
• Materialist Feminism:
  • Women (and later, other marginalized folks) are "appropriated objects," and complicit due to normalized systems of oppression.

d. Les Jolies Choses as Feminist Bildungsroman (24:34–31:16)

• Stunted Development:
  • The coming-of-age genre serves to expose the limits placed on female and marginalized development under heteropatriarchy.
• Twin Device:
  • The lives and roles of twin sisters illustrate how socialization into heteropatriarchal norms shapes and limits women's agency across ages and classes.
• Evolving Masculinities:
  • Schaal notes Despentes’s men appear "more positive" at first, but retain diagnostic value—privileges persist, often unconsciously.

Quote:
"But she also demonstrated at the same time that privileges still come with masculinity and that men were not necessarily willing to renounce those privileges..." (Michelle Schaal, 30:23)

7. Current and Future Projects (31:16–33:04)

• Upcoming Work:
  • Co-editing a special issue on Despentes and intersectionality for Contemporary French Civilization—analyzing what truly makes Despentes's work intersectional.
  • Second volume in the works, covering Despentes’s later fiction (2002–2022+).

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "[Despentes] was absolutely rejected by mainstream audiences... what she was once hated for was praised even in mainstream media." (Michelle Schaal, 07:22)
• "Whether you, I mean, punk, gender bending, are both relying on, you know, reversing codes, establish codes to precisely expose them as constructions..." (Michelle Schaal, 19:36)
• "Using twins was a really good means to show how these standards evolve based on age, but also based on class..." (Michelle Schaal, 28:56)
• "Privileges still come with masculinity and... men were not necessarily willing to renounce those privileges..." (Michelle Schaal, 30:23)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Project Genesis & Personal Connection: 01:02–03:04
• What "Grrrl Writing" Means: 03:11–04:15
• Corpus Division and Book Structure: 04:26–05:20
• Despentes’s Biography & Reception: 05:20–08:16
• Key Theoretical Terms Explored: 08:16–13:46
• Baise-moi: Genre & Critique: 13:46–16:41
• Violence and Reader Response: 17:10–19:11
• Les Chiennes Savantes and Genre Reversal: 19:11–24:34
• Les Jolies Choses as Bildungsroman: 24:34–29:08
• Masculinity and Critique: 29:08–31:16
• Upcoming Projects: 31:16–33:04

Concluding Thoughts

This episode offers a rich, lucid articulation of how Virginie Despentes’s early fiction—and the scholarship surrounding it—engages with riot grrrl punk, feminist materialism, genre conventions, and enduring questions of literary and social politics. Michèle Schaal’s accessible yet rigorous analysis provides newcomers and specialists alike with a compelling entry point into both Despentes’s oeuvre and contemporary feminist literary criticism.