Episode Overview

In this episode of the New Books Network, host Dr. Miranda Melcher interviews Dr. Miles Kenney-Lazar about his 2025 book, Socializing Land: Plantations, Dispossession, and Resistance in Laos (University of Hawai’i Press). The discussion delves into the political ecology of land use in Laos, focusing on the complex interplay between plantation expansion, state governance, community resistance, and the nuanced sociopolitical fabric shaping land control. Kenney-Lazar explains his conceptual framework of "socializing land," illustrates its applicability within and beyond Laos, and highlights the gray areas and contestations accompanying land dispossession and agrarian change.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Author Introduction and Book Motivation

• Speaker: Dr. Miles Kenney-Lazar
• Timestamps: [02:12]-[04:55]
• Kenney-Lazar introduces himself as a human geographer and political ecologist based at the University of Melbourne.
• The book emerged from years of research in Laos on the impacts of Chinese and Vietnamese rubber plantations: dispossession, deforestation, pollution, and labor abuse.
• The project shifted from impact analysis to investigating how and why land acquisitions happen, and why certain communities resist more successfully than others.
• Quote:

  "What was less clear to me was how and why these projects were developed, such as why farmers were made to sacrifice their lands to them, and in particular, why some villages and farmers were more impacted than others." (03:07)

2. The Concept of "Socializing Land"

• Speaker: Dr. Miles Kenney-Lazar
• Timestamps: [05:16]-[11:30]
• "Socializing land" describes how control over land is produced through ever-changing social relations.
• Land isn't a fixed asset; it is enmeshed in social relationships that shape—and are shaped by—political and economic forces.
• Two main forms in Laos:
  • For the peasantry: Social ties as defensive bulwarks against dispossession; land as community legacy and spiritual resource.
  • For capital: Social ties get restructured by the state and companies to enable privatization and plantation development.
• Quote:

  "Land is not just an entity or a thing...but it's something that people have fundamentally social relationships with." (06:41)

• The concept serves as a guiding framework for the book.

3. Why Laos? Case Selection and Context

• Speaker: Dr. Miles Kenney-Lazar
• Timestamps: [11:30]-[16:57]
• Laos is ideal because it is a site of overlapping, conflicting land governance models:
  • Post-1975 socialist collectivization (largely failed)
  • 1980s liberalization and marketization
  • Ongoing role of the state in land allocation
• Much land is customarily used but not titlized or officially registered, creating a perpetual gray zone for dispossession or community retention.
• The single-party system gives the impression of little dissent, but beneath the surface there's considerable, albeit risky, contestation.

4. Research in a Repressive Political Climate

• Speaker: Dr. Miles Kenney-Lazar
• Timestamps: [17:43]-[24:01]
• Fieldwork focused on two plantation companies (Chinese and Vietnamese) and ten villages in southeastern Savannakhet province.
• Obtaining official permission was arduous; NGOs shied away from the sensitive topic, leading Kenney-Lazar to partner with a government agency.
• Being embedded with the government paradoxically allowed more frankness from interviewees, as the agency wanted insights for its own leverage.
• Use of local researchers from the Brew ethnic group to facilitate private, coded communication.
• Over time, officials would relax oversight, enabling deeper conversations.
• Quote:

  "For the second aspect, in terms of ensuring that people felt comfortable to speak and that I could try to reduce any risks to them. This was particularly challenging...So one is that I also worked with people from the same ethnic group..." (20:59)

5. The Gray Area of "State Land"

• Speaker: Dr. Miles Kenney-Lazar
• Timestamps: [24:01]-[31:23]
• "State land" is far from a simple category; formally, all land is owned by the "national community" and managed by the state.
• Customary land use, slow titling processes, and diverse tenure arrangements make the identification of "state land" highly contested.
• The boundaries of state versus village or private land often only become clear during plantation development, through negotiation or coercion.
• Quote:

  "So what makes things more complicated...is that since the 1980s...they also started to liberalize land ownership...So you start to get a kind of another category of land, which is individual land..." (26:01)

• The definition and mapping of "state land" is itself a political process.

6. Uneven Resistance: Political Ties and State Priorities

• Speaker: Dr. Miles Kenney-Lazar
• Timestamps: [31:23]-[38:13]
• Villages’ ability to resist is tied to ethnic, political, and historical connections, making some more vulnerable than others (e.g., Brew vs. Putai villages).
• Notable cases:
  • The rare Brew village with kinship to a former president (successfully reclaimed land).
  • Villages harnessing veteran status and wartime relationships to raise complaints up the bureaucracy.
• State land valuation is shaped by agricultural production: shifting cultivation is undervalued and targeted for replacement (with paddy rice or plantations), whereas paddy rice lands are safeguarded.
• Quote:

  "So for a lot of these villages, actually, it was very challenging because of this kind of lack of ties." (32:27) "Shifting cultivation...is a type of land use that the government very much does not value." (38:16)

7. Internal Village Dynamics and Resistance

• Speaker: Dr. Miles Kenney-Lazar
• Timestamps: [44:04]-[48:20]
• Community cohesion is critical; unified leadership and decision-making increase chances of successful resistance.
• Leadership corruption or clientelism can fracture resistance; leaders may accept small perks in exchange for compliance.
• Quote:

  "It was quite incredible that they were very proud to share about how they had made all their decisions collectively...In comparison, villages where that kind of resistance fell apart...there was some pretty big gaps between the village leadership and the rest of the community." (45:16)

8. Broader Implications and Political Lessons

• Speaker: Dr. Miles Kenney-Lazar
• Timestamps: [48:38]-[51:58]
• Land is dynamic and social, not static property—its control can change, and community ties persist even after dispossession.
• Even under authoritarianism, land politics can ascend through hidden, "quiet" channels and force policy change (e.g., a moratorium on new land concessions).
• The concept of socializing land is proposed as a lens for understanding land struggles globally.
• Quote:

  "Land is always political and there are oftentimes always people seeking to maintain control over their land, even in situations that seem apolitical." (51:22)

9. Surprising Research Findings

• Speaker: Dr. Miles Kenney-Lazar
• Timestamps: [52:07]-[55:43]
• Despite expectations, interviewees were often candid, and official permission sometimes encouraged openness.
• Gradual, bottom-up complaints and resistance in Laos—though quiet or circuitous—can influence national policy (e.g., moratorium on concessions).
• Laos's system of "democratic centralism" enabled grassroots input to affect elite decision-making.

10. Kenney-Lazar’s Current & Future Research

• Speaker: Dr. Miles Kenney-Lazar
• Timestamps: [55:58]-[58:12]
• Now studying attempts to address plantation harms:
  • Forest carbon sequestration schemes, often targeting small farmers rather than corporations.
  • Efforts to make plantations (especially rubber) more sustainable, including multinational initiatives and EU regulation.
• Quote:

  "Unfortunately, I'm finding that a lot of those efforts are actually targeting small scale farmers rather than these large plantations. But it is an interesting attempt to address one aspect of this larger issue." (56:53)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Land is not just an entity or a thing... it's something that people have fundamentally social relationships with." — Dr. Miles Kenney-Lazar ([06:41])
• "The question of what exactly is state land and where it exists is really a vexing one." — Dr. Miles Kenney-Lazar ([29:09])
• "There was a lot of pressure, and it took a lot to organize together. And to continue to resist the acquisition of their lands." — Dr. Miles Kenney-Lazar ([44:15])
• "Even under authoritarianism, politics operates... in indirect, quiet, behind the scenes ways, but can also be as equally powerful." — Dr. Miles Kenney-Lazar ([55:15])

Key Timestamps

• 02:12 – Introduction to the author and research origins
• 05:16 – Explaining "socializing land" concept
• 11:43 – Why Laos? Socio-political context and case selection
• 17:43 – Fieldwork challenges and methodology under political repression
• 24:35 – Unpacking "state land" and its ambiguities
• 31:48 – Factors enabling or hindering village resistance to dispossession
• 38:13 – How state valuations of land shape outcomes
• 44:04 – Role of internal community dynamics in resistance
• 48:38 – Broader implications of socializing land
• 52:07 – Surprising research findings
• 55:58 – Current and future research directions

Final Takeaways

Dr. Miles Kenney-Lazar’s Socializing Land offers a nuanced exploration of land grabs, resistance, and community-state-capital entanglements in Laos—and, by extension, in other settings of contested land governance. "Socializing land" provides a powerful alternative to viewing land as static property, highlighting its inherent dynamism and the enduring, adaptive agency of marginalized communities.

For listeners and readers interested in land politics, development, and global agrarian change, this episode and book provide both theoretical insight and on-the-ground perspective—reminding us to look for politics, even (or especially) where they appear absent.