Podcast Summary:

New Books Network — Interview with Mimi Abramovitz on "Regulating the Lives of Women: Social Welfare Policy from Colonial Times to the Present" (Routledge, 2025)
Host: Stephen Pimpare
Guest: Mimi Abramovitz
Date: November 4, 2025

Overview

This episode features a conversation between host Stephen Pimpare and author/scholar Mimi Abramovitz about her influential book, Regulating the Lives of Women, now in its extensively revised fourth edition. They discuss the origins, roles, and ongoing transformations of the U.S. welfare state, focusing on its impact on women—with particular attention to gender, race, and class. Abramovitz unpacks the historical and modern ways welfare policy has both supported and regulated women, explains key analytical concepts, and closes with pointed reflections on the contemporary landscape in the context of the second Trump administration.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Author Background & Book Genesis

[02:50] Mimi Abramovitz:

• Mimi traces her path from a welfare worker in Connecticut (Aid to Families with Dependent Children) to activist in the Civil Rights and Women’s Liberation movements, and eventually to academia (“publish or perish”).
• Central Question:

  "How has the welfare state affected the lives of women? And this question became the foundation of my book." [05:01]

• The book links personal experience, activism, academic study, and historical research, focusing on women as clients, workers, and reformers in welfare policy.

2. Defining the Welfare State & Historical Context

[05:45] Mimi Abramovitz:

• The welfare state aims to protect and promote individual/family well-being, especially during hardship—yet is deeply contested and complicated in practice.

• U.S. welfare policy roots:

  • Colonial poor laws
  • Major expansion post-Great Depression (“to save capitalism from itself”)
  • Rapid growth through mid-1980s, then retrenchment beginning with Reagan, escalating with Trump.

• Three main programs discussed:

  • Social Security (for older adults)
  • Unemployment insurance (for jobless workers)
  • Public assistance ("welfare," e.g., TANF, predominantly for poor families and single mothers)

• Importance of understanding terminology and deliberate blurring of "welfare" vs. "welfare state" to build support for cuts:

  "Opponents ... have intentionally, deliberately blurred the line between the word welfare and the broader term welfare state..." [09:13]

• U.S. welfare state is uniquely "limited, conditional, and unequal" due to individualist ideology and entrenched racial/gender hierarchies.

3. The Gendered Nature of the Welfare State

[11:23] Mimi Abramovitz:

• The welfare state is **not race or gender neutral; it supports and regulates women, perpetuating stereotypes and patriarchal/racialized norms.

• Dual role:

  1. Supports women (income, healthcare, child/retirement benefits)
  2. Regulates and constrains, often making access difficult via rules reflecting patriarchal assumptions.

• Traditional focus: Male breadwinner/female homemaker model:

  • Women’s dependence on men cemented in policies (e.g., Social Security treats married women as "dependents," penalizing single/divorced women).
  • Unemployment insurance tied to continuous/full-time work; women’s interrupted careers often disqualified them, especially if leaving work for caregiving, pregnancy, or due to domestic violence—reasons deemed "unacceptable."
  • Welfare/public assistance targeted at single mothers, becoming more restrictive and punitive as black women became overrepresented on the rolls.

  "Policymakers... blame poverty on their so-called lack of personal responsibility, by which they meant they had kids outside of marriage." [13:55]

• "Welfare queen" stereotype (popularized by Reagan) used as a political tool to enforce stigma and justify harsh cuts.

4. Introducing "The Family Ethic" & Racialization

[16:15] Mimi Abramovitz:

• "Family ethic":

  • The welfare state judged women on compliance with wife/mother roles, rewarding compliant married women and penalizing single/divorced/working women.
  • This ethic is fundamentally racialized; women of color (more likely to be single, to work outside the home) viewed as violating the family norm and treated as less deserving.
  • Policies explicitly excluded African American women/men (e.g., Social Security and unemployment originally excluded domestic/agricultural work).

  "So the welfare state automatically viewed them as violating the family ethic. They were not seen as real women..." [17:35]

  • Resulted in deeply unequal access and outcomes:

  "Black women just got the shorter... It's a long story. I don't have time to go into it now, but it really is a very sad and actually horrific story." [19:18]

• Public assistance further punishes single mothers, especially with rules targeting those with children out of wedlock.

5. Women as Agents: Welfare Policy and Emboldenment

[22:06] Mimi Abramovitz:

• Women were never "passive recipients" of welfare.
  • Welfare support ("the social wage") can embolden individuals; reduces fear of economic insecurity and enables activism.
  • Increases in welfare benefits often followed periods of unrest; but this empowerment potential was underappreciated.

  "The welfare state creates the conditions for the very protest it set out to quiet." [22:51]

  • 1960s-70s: Welfare Rights Movement reframed welfare as a right, not a handout.
  • Social wage enables pushback:

    "...income security provided by access to welfare benefits can enable the individual workers to demand better wages on their jobs, women to challenge male dominance, and people of color to resist systemic racism." [23:55]

  • Keeping benefits low is a way to limit this potential for emboldenment.

6. The Contemporary Crisis: The Welfare State in the Second Trump Term and Beyond

[25:51] Mimi Abramovitz:

• The current moment is "horrifying" and "dangerous."
• The welfare state—always under attack—is facing unprecedented retrenchment, especially under Trump and in line with Project 2025.
• Right-wing rhetoric reframes women’s independence as "personal irresponsibility."
• Policies aim to:
  • Restore the family ethic, punish independence, and reverse the gains of women and people of color.
  • Target public-sector jobs (a key source of Black middle-class advancement).
  • End safety net programs (e.g., food stamps/SNAP, potential Social Security/Medicare privatization).

  "All the social welfare state cuts are ... undermining the ability of the state to subsidize women at home, which is ironic because they want women to stay home, but they're punishing women for who they are." [28:12]

  • The brunt of these attacks falls on women, especially women of color.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "How has the welfare state affected the lives of women? And this question became the foundation of my book."
  — Mimi Abramovitz [05:01]

• "Opponents ... have intentionally, deliberately blurred the line between the word welfare and the broader term welfare state..."
  — Mimi Abramovitz [09:13]

• "From the start, the US welfare state supported what was called the male breadwinner, female homemaker ... rewarded women for their economic dependence on men, which feminists link as a linchpin ... that holds patriarchy in place."
  — Mimi Abramovitz [11:44]

• "Welfare state creates the conditions for the very protest it set out to quiet."
  — Mimi Abramovitz [22:51]

• "While the welfare state was created to stabilize capitalism and contain social unrest, it also provided the very tools that enabled collective resistance and social change."
  — Mimi Abramovitz [24:41]

• "I am horrified. So just personally, it's not my academic self. My personal self is horrified and scared. I think it's a very dangerous period. But that said, I think that we have to talk about the welfare state was never popular. It was always suffering cuts from day one."
  — Mimi Abramovitz [25:51]

• "All the social welfare state cuts are ... undermining the ability of the state to subsidize women at home, which is ironic because they want women to stay home, but they're punishing women for who they are."
  — Mimi Abramovitz [28:12]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:50 – Mimi’s background, motivation for writing the book
• 05:45 – What is the welfare state? Historical development, main programs
• 11:23 – Gendered impact: How the welfare state both supports and regulates women
• 16:15 – The “family ethic” and how race and gender intersect in welfare policy
• 22:06 – Welfare’s “emboldening” potential and activism
• 25:51 – Perspective on the present: The welfare state and regressive politics under Trump and Project 2025
• 30:17 – Closing acknowledgments

Tone & Language

Throughout, Abramovitz’s tone is clear, passionate, historically grounded, and unapologetically critical—particularly about the regressive retrenchment of welfare programs and the consequences for marginalized women. Pimpare’s questions invite depth, clarity, and candor.

Summary Takeaway

This episode is an essential listen for anyone seeking historic and systemic context on the intersection of gender, race, and social policy in the U.S. welfare state. Abramovitz’s insights explain not only how welfare policies have shaped—and constrained—women’s lives, but also how those very programs have served as tools for resistance, collective action, and the slow push toward justice.