Podcast Summary: New Books Network

Episode: Tolkien's Medievalism in Ruins: The Function of Relics and Ruins in Middle-earth

Guests: Nick Katsiatis & Carl Sell (Editors)
Host: Stentor Danielson
Date: September 30, 2025

Overview

This episode features a deep dive into the forthcoming edited collection, Tolkien's Medievalism in Ruins: The Function of Relics and Ruins in Middle-earth (Bloomsbury, 2025), with editors Nick Katsiatis and Carl Sell. The conversation explores how ruins and relics function thematically and symbolically in J.R.R. Tolkien’s legendarium, delves into the cultural and historical contexts shaping Tolkien's vision, and discusses the mediation of these themes in adaptations and modern scholarship.

Backgrounds and Book Genesis

[01:59-05:16]

• Nick Katsiatis: Assistant professor at Slippery Rock University, teaching a wide range of literature, film, and writing courses. His interest in ruins originated from research on Romanticism and 19th-century women writers, especially the psychological and literary function of ruins.
• Carl Sell: Associate Director for McNairan Undergraduate Research Programs and English instructor at University of Pittsburgh, specializing in Arthurian fantasy, medievalism, and modern pop culture.
• Origin of Collaboration: They met at Indiana University of Pennsylvania, bonding instantly over Tolkien tattoos and shared interests. Their professional collaboration started with co-hosted conference panels and merged distinct research paths—romanticism and Arthurian legend—into the study of Tolkien’s use of ruins and relics.

Memorable moment:

"Carl and I both recognize that we both have Tolkien tattoos. And so I turned to my left and I was just like, that guy's going to be my best friend."
— Nick Katsiatis [03:50]

Conceptual Foundations of the Book

[07:42-12:15]

• Thematic Focus: Ruins and relics are more than decaying structures or objects in Tolkien; they are conduits of nostalgia, identity, and psychological engagement with history (both cultural and personal).
• Perspective Split:
  • Carl Sell focuses on "relics" (e.g., swords as family and national heirlooms, the lineage of Numenor embodied by Aragorn).
  • Nick Katsiatis focuses on "ruins" as landscapes that evoke both historical and emotional resonance for characters and readers.
• Academic Gap: There was little prior scholarship specifically on Tolkien’s treatment of ruins, leading to high interest and subsequent development from conference panels to an edited volume.

Tolkien’s Historical Context and Approach

[13:01-17:14]

• Challenges the common reductionist, purely "medievalist" readings of Tolkien, foregrounding his location in Romantic, Victorian, and Modernist traditions as well.
• Tolkien’s work reflects a “double entendre” of medievalism: drawing from medieval source texts but also shaped by later literary and personal influences.
• The book positions Tolkien as both a transmitter of medieval legacies and a modernist wrestling with questions of memory, loss, and literary history.

Notable quote:

"There’s hardly any scholarship that’s on Tolkien as a modernist, let alone, you know, engaging in Catholic praxis and ethics within his work."
— Nick Katsiatis [13:01]

Use of Extra-Canonical and Posthumous Tolkien Material

[17:14-22:19]

• The volume draws extensively not only on Tolkien’s main works, but also drafts, abandoned manuscripts (e.g., The Lost Road), and his correspondence.
• These materials are seen as "relics" themselves, revealing Tolkien’s creative process and the nostalgia animating both the author and his characters.

Carl Sell:

"Most of my evidence is actually not even from the text of The Lord of the Rings. ... I’m primarily looking at the timeline that Tolkien creates in the appendices, because that is him creating the world from start to finish." [18:03]

Nick Katsiatis:

"In the Lost Road ... there is an Oxford graduate ... who starts having these visions of Numenor ... I make the argument that this is Tolkien's thoughts himself, that he has this nostalgia to go back to a time that he could never get to." [22:49]

Adaptations: Ruins and Relics Beyond the Books

[27:15-32:18]

• The book examines themes in adaptations (e.g., video games like Shadow of Mordor and Lord of the Rings Online, the death metal band Summoning, text-based multi-user dungeons, and more).
• Interest in how adaptation creators balance fidelity to Tolkien’s aesthetics and worldbuilding, and how ruins/relics are re-imagined in modern media.

Carl Sell:

"There are ruins, but they're not all explained. ... [Adaptations ask:] What does Mordor look like other than just the parts we see in the Lord of the Rings?" [27:33]

• The volume consciously de-emphasizes Peter Jackson's films, aiming to highlight under-studied areas and reach new audiences who may connect first through games or other media.

Favorite Ruins in Middle-earth

[34:04-41:04]

• Host (Stentor Danielson): Tharbad, a mysterious and under-described ruin briefly mentioned in the main texts.
• Carl Sell: Amansul (Weathertop) and Dol Guldur, "two separate ruins... part of the same kind of network" [35:11]; appreciates their roles as outposts laden with history, especially Weathertop as a site of major narrative importance.
• Nick Katsiatis: Osgiliath’s Dome of Stars and Moria, for their power to evoke artistic response and longing. Wishes there were physical remnants of First Age ruins, especially Gondolin.

Notable quote:

"What I find so fascinating about this ... is that it reminds them of some type of art. ... it was such a wealthy time, ... it’s encouraging and energizing the active production of art."
— Nick Katsiatis [36:35]

Acknowledgments

[41:04-44:17]

• Nick Katsiatis: His wife Rebecca, advisor Dr. Michael T. Williamson, and high school English teacher Ms. Laura Vogel for fostering his academic and Tolkien interests.
• Carl Sell: His wife Sarah, IUP mentors Mike T. Williamson and Chris Kuipers, his grandmother (who taught him to read), and fifth-grade teacher for introducing him to Tolkien.

Memorable moment:

"[My teacher] actually let my friends and I skip class to go and see the movies on the opening days because she said it was educational. ... Being a 'nerd or geek' wasn’t something to disparage, but something to encourage."
— Nick Katsiatis [41:13]

What’s Next for the Authors

[44:17-46:56]

• Nick Katsiatis: Co-editing a new collection with Matthew Brake on esotericism in Alan Moore's works (e.g., Watchmen, V for Vendetta), aiming to fill a similar gap as the Tolkien volume.
• Carl Sell: Projects include a post-apocalyptic view of Robin Hood, the connection of vampirism and the Holy Grail in pop culture, the Holy Grail in comics, and most importantly, becoming a parent at year’s end.
• Both hope for a successful sequel volume to Tolkien’s Medievalism in Ruins, focusing more on adaptations like The Rings of Power and Peter Jackson’s films.

Quote:

"When, and if, our volume is successful, we hope to propose a sequel volume."
— Nick Katsiatis [46:56]

Notable Quotes & Highlights

• "We are not going to do studies in Tolkien because we don't want to ruin it. And then both of us did that." — Carl Sell [05:16]
• "Seeing Amon Sul in the Fellowship, I think you kind of get a sense of what at least that was probably like. ... Amon Sul is Weathertop is visually and thematically and plotline important in the Lord of the Rings." — Carl Sell [35:11]
• "By the time the character in the Lost Road ... starts having these visions of Numenor, everything from Middle Earth ceases to exist. There are no ruins at all." — Nick Katsiatis [22:49]
• "There's a whole new audience now where we need to start thinking about ... a new sort of touch point, and we're trying to sort of bring about that touch point back to the realm of Middle Earth, however you get there with our collection." — Carl Sell [32:20]

Episode Timeline (Timestamps)

• 01:28–02:05: Introduction to Katsiatis & Sell
• 03:50: Book’s origins in friendship and academic interest
• 05:16–07:23: Arthurian roots and conference panels turning into the book
• 07:58–10:17: Ruins and relics—medieval, familial, landscape, psychological dimensions
• 13:01–14:51: Tolkien’s historical context; challenging the “just a medievalist” view
• 17:14–22:49: Using Tolkien's drafts, letters, posthumous materials to inform scholarship
• 27:15–32:18: Video games, music, and digital-era adaptations of ruins/relics
• 34:04–41:04: Authors share favorite ruins in Middle-earth
• 41:04–44:17: Personal acknowledgments
• 44:17–46:56: Current projects and hopes for a sequel volume

Tone & Accessibility

The hosts and guests maintain an accessible, collegial tone, aiming for a blend of rigorous scholarship and approachable conversation. The episode is valuable for Tolkien fans, students, scholars, and those interested in modern medievalism, adaptation studies, and the continuing cultural resonance of Middle-earth.