Podcast Summary:
New Books Network – Nick Romeo, "The Alternative: How to Build a Just Economy"
Host: Stephen Pimpare
Guest: Nick Romeo
Date: January 24, 2026
Episode Overview
This episode of the New Books Network's Public Policy Channel features journalist and author Nick Romeo discussing his new book, "The Alternative: How to Build a Just Economy". The conversation centers on Romeo’s critique of current economic orthodoxy and his exploration of workable, innovative alternatives that could foster a more just and inclusive economy. Rather than simply diagnosing problems, Romeo’s book—and this interview—focuses on real-world examples of alternative economic models, spanning topics like true pricing, living wages, job guarantees, gig work as public utility, perpetual purpose trusts, and participatory budgeting.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Critique of Economics as a Discipline ([02:03]-[05:04])
- Narrowing of Economic Thinking: Romeo opens by critiquing contemporary economic education for emphasizing mathematics over historical, ethical, and philosophical perspectives.
- Quote: “You might think of, like, this mathematician element has kind of subsumed the other four and we've sheared off these older humanistic components of economics, which used to be conceived of more as a branch of political philosophy.” (Romeo, 02:45)
- Real-World Consequences: This approach shapes society’s "cultural common sense" about what is normal in economic life, affecting politics, business, and individual behavior.
- Quote: "Economics is enormously powerful. It shapes political behavior, but it also shapes consumer behavior, lifestyle choices, your sense even of what is a good life, what is normal and natural for a human being to do... it sounds pretty clearly philosophical, but economics, I think, has encroached on that domain." (Romeo, 04:19)
2. Focus on Solutions, Not Just Critique ([05:04]-[05:55])
- The book intentionally reverses the conventional structure, foregrounding alternative models and solutions rather than culminating in a brief final chapter on ‘what to do’.
3. True Pricing and Accounting for Externalities ([05:55]-[09:13])
- Definition and Example: True Price (a Dutch nonprofit) calculates the full social and environmental cost of goods, applying a surcharge to directly remediate harms.
- Quote: “When you don’t pay the extra costs that are currently externalized, they don’t somehow go away, it’s just that someone else pays them... maybe the nation's health care system pays them... maybe future generations pay them, maybe people far away growing that food pay them.” (Romeo, 08:32)
- Applications: The most promising implementation is as a legislative tool for policymakers, not just as a consumer-facing adjustment.
4. Living Wages and the Example of Well-Paid Maids ([09:13]-[15:08])
- Living Wage Defined: The prevailing definition in the U.S. is “incredibly narrow and ungenerous,” reduced mostly to subsistence, lacking room for well-being and security.
- Quote: “What we now call a living wage in America is an... ungenerous sort of construct that's largely the creation of one economist at MIT, which is a sort of astonishing fact in itself.” (Romeo, 10:36)
- Well-Paid Maids as Proof of Concept: This DC-based cleaning business pays workers well above conventional living wage calculations, offers internal promotion, and is commercially successful despite higher consumer prices.
- Quote: “People make well above the MIT living wage definition... One woman I spoke with, she was making $70,000 a year after just a few years previously cleaning hotel rooms. That's a pretty astounding transformation.” (Romeo, 11:59)
- Limits of Voluntarism: Romeo emphasizes that voluntary goodwill isn’t enough; policy and regulation are necessary to create systemic fairness.
5. Austria’s Job Guarantee Program ([15:08]-[18:38])
- Pilot Overview: In a town near Vienna, anyone who wants a job is ensured one, in conscious contrast to historical mass-unemployment in the same area.
- Benefits Beyond Income: Romeo highlights that jobs offer “time structure, self-esteem, social connection, purpose”—not just a paycheck.
- Participatory Design: Jobs are co-created with social workers, matching skills and interests, contrasted against punitive “workfare” programs.
- Scalability: National models indicate a U.S. job guarantee could be economically feasible and would both support workers and pressure private employers to improve pay and conditions.
6. Gig Work as a Public Utility ([20:25]-[23:51])
- Rethinking Platforms: The current private model (Uber, Lyft, DoorDash) siphons profits and creates precarity. Romeo describes pilot public gig platforms that function more as utilities, with lower fees, worker protections, and potential for better wages.
- Quote: "As soon as you strip away the, like, profit maximizing imperative and you say this is just to help people find jobs... gig work isn't going away, but it doesn't have to be this kind of desperate, exploitative realm." (Romeo, 22:31)
- Pilots in Progress: Notably, projects are underway in Long Beach, CA, and Portland, OR.
7. Perpetual Purpose Trusts ([23:51]-[27:04])
- Alternative to Private Equity: These trusts allow a legal document, rather than private shareholders, to own a company, enshrining the founder’s ethical goals permanently (profit sharing, environmental stewardship, wage ratios, etc.).
- Quote: "...you've kind of enshrined something other than profit maximizing as the basic goal of the business. And that makes it sort of secure, potentially for many, many generations, against takeovers." (Romeo, 26:11)
- Examples: From small businesses to Patagonia, this model is gaining traction as a way to shield companies from profit-maximizing pressures.
8. Participatory Budgeting ([27:04]-[30:20])
- Direct Democratic Control: Participatory budgeting allows citizens to allocate a portion of public budgets, fostering engagement and coalition-building.
- Case Study: Cascais, Portugal, where participatory budget elections sometimes draw higher turnout than regular local elections.
- Quote: "...it goes back almost to the ancient Athenian model where you're very involved in decisions that affect your life. You vote on things that are going to shape your neighborhood and your circumstances directly." (Romeo, 29:56)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Economic Curriculum:
“The master economist really has four components. He or she must be historian, statesman, philosopher and mathematician... The mathematician element has kind of subsumed the other four and we've sheared off these older humanistic components...”
—Nick Romeo [02:37] -
On True Pricing:
“When you don't pay the extra costs that are currently externalized, they don't somehow go away, it's just that someone else pays them... It's a question of who pays them, not whether or not they should be paid.”
—Nick Romeo [08:32] -
On Living Wages:
"What we now call a living wage in America is incredibly narrow and ungenerous... That's largely the creation of one economist at MIT, which is a sort of astonishing fact in itself."
—Nick Romeo [10:36] -
On Employee Advancement at Well-Paid Maids:
"One woman I spoke with, she was making $70,000 a year after just a few years previously cleaning hotel rooms. That's a pretty astounding transformation."
—Nick Romeo [11:59] -
On Employment Programs:
"The idea that a job is more than income, that it's a source of time, structure, self-esteem, social connection, purpose. This was really important to the designers of the current study."
—Nick Romeo [16:15] -
On Gig Work as Utility:
"Gig work isn't going away, but it doesn't have to be this kind of desperate, exploitative realm dominated by a few enormously rich companies that, that care very little for the welfare of the workers."
—Nick Romeo [22:31] -
On Purpose Trusts:
"You've kind of enshrined something other than profit maximizing as the basic goal of the business. And that makes it sort of secure, potentially for many, many generations, against takeovers."
—Nick Romeo [26:11] -
On Participatory Budgeting:
"All of these things have kind of salutary, democratic properties in their own right, so independent of the fact that it actually does give people lots of things that they want and need, real infrastructure improvements, things that make them safer, healthier, etc. There's also this political dimension which I thought was really fascinating."
—Nick Romeo [29:17]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- [02:03] — Romeo introduces his background and the genesis of the book
- [02:23] — Critique of standard economics and its consequences
- [05:55] — Explanation of True Price and accounting for externalities
- [09:13] — Living wage discussion; Well-Paid Maids example
- [15:08] — Austria job guarantee pilot detailed
- [20:25] — Gig work as public utility
- [23:51] — Perpetual purpose trusts: definition and implications
- [27:04] — Participatory budgeting in Portugal
- [30:20] — Conclusion and acknowledgments
Tone and Language
Nick Romeo speaks with clarity and persuasion, balancing critique and optimism. The tone is pragmatic yet hopeful, reflecting deep engagement with both the shortcomings of contemporary economic arrangements and the promise of innovative, justice-oriented alternatives.
Conclusion
This episode underscores the central thesis of Romeo’s book: truly just economic alternatives already exist in the world, awaiting recognition, experimentation, and broader adoption. His call is not merely to diagnose the failures of “business as usual,” but to amplify and refine solutions that align economics with broader human values—justice, dignity, and democracy.