Podcast Summary:

New Books Network
Peer Schouten, "Roadblock Politics: The Origins of Violence in Central Africa"
Host: Susan Thompson
Guest: Peer Schouten
Date: February 8, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode explores Peer Schouten’s groundbreaking book "Roadblock Politics: The Origins of Violence in Central Africa" (Cambridge UP, 2022). Through mapping over 1,000 roadblocks in the Central African Republic and the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Schouten reframes how scholars, policymakers, and the public understand violence, state authority, and everyday survival in conflict-affected regions. He challenges existing state theories and 'conflict mineral' explanations, emphasizing the foundational role of roadblocks as both infrastructures and instruments of power, extraction, and resistance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Motivation for Writing the Book ([01:51])

• Cognitive Dissonance in Fieldwork:

  • Schouten was struck by “the amount of cognitive dissonance” between classic theoretical frameworks (e.g., state failure, conflict minerals) and daily realities encountered during fieldwork.
  • Quote:
    “Really none of these heavyweight frameworks helped me to make sense of what I encountered... navigating through very complex logistical terrains which involved, indeed, at a frequency of about once every 10 miles, an encounter with a roadblock.”
    — Peer Schouten ([03:34])

• Influence of Mentors:

  • Encouragement from colleagues (notably Leo Arreola at UC Berkeley) motivated Schouten to shape his insights into a book.

2. Centrality of Roadblocks to Everyday Experience ([06:06])

• Schouten found that roadblocks were the most tangible and persistent face of conflict for local populations, more so than broad theories suggested.
• Quote:
  “People will say it's the costs of things. It's the unsafety at the roads. It's actually the roadblocks. Right?”
  — Peer Schouten ([06:26])

3. Rethinking Sovereignty: “On a Shoestring” ([07:54])

• Sovereignty at the Margins:
  • Schouten argues that conventional Western state theory (monopoly over territory/armed forces) doesn’t apply in Central Africa, where statehood is “on a shoestring.”
  • Historical Context:
    Even in 19th-century Britain there were 8,000 toll gates; these practices predate colonial empires.
  • Quote:
    “What state actors would basically do most of the time is simply set up shop beside the road and use weapons to force people to pay a toll to pass.”
    — Peer Schouten ([09:30])

4. Infrastructural Empire & “The Revenge of Distance” ([11:23])

• Historical Periodization:
  • Pre-20th-century states lacked extensive infrastructure—so sovereignty meant controlling key passages (literally sitting by the road).
  • The invention and later neglect of infrastructure (roads, railways) shape state power.
  • “Roadblock politics” re-emerges where infrastructures are weak or crumble, especially post-structural adjustment.
• Capitalism & Mobility:
  • In places where value lies in moving—not producing—goods (e.g., minerals, staple foods), power accrues to those who can control or obstruct circulation.
  • Quote:
    “It’s possible locally to force power out of the friction of distance… roadblock politics is something that can happen under two conditions: where states don’t control the entirety of their transport networks, and… capital is concentrated in the sphere of circulation and not production.”
    — Peer Schouten ([15:25])

5. Roadblocks as Extractive and Politically Complex ([19:49])

• How Roadblocks Evolve:
  • Initially deployed by state security forces as alternatives to paid salaries (especially as state institutions collapsed).
  • Copied by armed groups—first in resistance, later for their own extraction and survival.
  • Proliferate as communities and rival groups replicate these structures in a complex “dialectic of resistance.”
• Quote: “Roadblocks are really part and parcel of this very complex politics of accommodation, regional equilibria, frontiers of resistance against the nefarious impacts of long-distance trade...”
  — Peer Schouten ([23:24])
• Policy frames label roadblocks as "corruption" or "crime," but their social and economic logic is more embedded.

6. Everyday Impact: Women and Local Resources ([26:11])

• Drawing on Katharine Newberry’s work, Schouten highlights how women perceived fees at roadblocks as legitimate when tied to services, but became resentful as roadblocks shifted purely to extraction.
• Quote: “Over time, it became too extractive... these women felt resentful, and the local actors manning these roadblocks lost the support of those women...”
  — Susan Thompson ([26:19])

7. Mapping Roadblocks and Policy Responses ([27:57])

• Collective Research Effort:
  • Schouten worked with local activists and NGOs (like IPIS) to map roadblocks; interactive maps are publicly available.
• Pushback from Institutions:
  • Initial UN reaction downplayed roadblocks (“not important”). Later, interest in using maps for roadblock removal.
  • Ethical Dilemmas:
    Schouten refused to share data for military “clean-up,” noting:
    • Removing roadblocks would not end extraction—armed actors innovate to maintain revenue.
    • “If you take those away... you might [see] kidnappings in eastern Congo, and those are quite violent.”
      — Peer Schouten ([32:52])

8. Non-Conventional Logistics and “Supply Chain Capitalism” ([35:04])

• Military Origins of Logistics:
  • Movement of goods in contested areas merges transport with tactics of warfare.
• Adaptation in Conflict Zones:
  • Global companies rely on multiple levels of local outsourcing; supply chains accommodate and work around (and with) conflict actors.
  • “It is impossible to move through that very contested space without contributing to these actors who make claims to the possibility of passing.”
    — Peer Schouten ([39:16])

9. Regional Geopolitics: Rwanda, Uganda, and M23 ([41:25])

• M23’s resurgence exemplifies cross-border interests in controlling trade corridors and profiting from minerals and hardwoods.
• “M23... is a proxy for [Rwanda's] influence... regional geopolitics in this area are so complicated... Uganda started interfering... Rwanda felt that leads to a kind of disbalance...”
  — Peer Schouten ([43:04])

10. Global Resonance: Supply Chains & Instability ([46:44])

• Lessons from DRC apply to global disruptions (e.g., Ukraine war impact on grain, global supply shortages during COVID).
• Quote: “We are entering an era in which global trade is not so self-evident anymore and... is something fundamentally contested, deeply political...”
  — Peer Schouten ([46:57])

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On methodology & relevance:
  "We had teams going out, traveling all these minor roads... to really create these maps. For the listener, if you want, you can access these maps interactively."
  ([28:37])

• On the limitations of policy interventions:
  "What would it achieve to take away this roadblock? ... If you take them away, you might take away a relatively predictable interface of extraction and violence... you might [see] kidnappings in eastern Congo, and those are quite violent."
  ([32:26-32:52])

Notable Timestamps

• 01:51 – Schouten's dual motivation for the book
• 06:06 – Everyday impacts of conflict; centrality of roadblocks
• 07:54 – Sovereignty "on a shoestring," historical context
• 11:23 – Prehistory & infrastructural power
• 19:49 – How roadblocks shape/reproduce cycles of extraction and resistance
• 26:11 – Gendered experiences and transformation of “legitimate” tolls
• 27:57 – Mapping project; institutional reactions
• 35:04 – Military/corporate logistics merge in supply chain capitalism
• 41:25 – Geopolitics of roadblocks, M23, Rwanda, Uganda
• 46:44 – Global trade disruptions & resonance beyond Central Africa
• 47:29 – Closing reflections & further resources

Further Reading & Recommendations ([48:13])

• Sweetness and Power by Sidney Mintz (global political economy of sugar)
• When We Cease to Understand the World by Benjamin Labatut (math, science, war)
• Podcast recommendation Nothing is Foreign (Susan Thompson)

Closing Remarks

Schouten reflects on the still untold histories of roadblocks and how they connect the mundane politics of survival to the high politics of the region and even the global supply chain. He invites further comparative research to see how these patterns emerge elsewhere and stresses the importance of listening to local voices and observing the everyday realities often missed by policy and international organizations.

“I hope that this is the start of a conversation we can carry on.” — Peer Schouten ([47:29])

For more, explore Schouten's interactive roadblock maps and his book "Roadblock Politics: The Origins of Violence in Central Africa."