Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Steven Pimpire (Public Policy Channel)
Guest: Peter Mancina, anthropologist and author
Episode: “On the Side of ICE: Policing Immigrants in a Sanctuary State” (NYU Press, 2025)
Date Recorded: December 9, 2025

This episode features anthropologist Peter Mancina discussing his forthcoming book, which investigates the realities of immigration policing in so-called “sanctuary states.” Drawing on over 15 years of research and fieldwork, Mancina challenges common perceptions about sanctuary policies, revealing how local law enforcement agencies often cooperate with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)—sometimes following the very policies supposedly designed to restrict such cooperation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Peter Mancina’s Background and Research Approach

• [02:22] Mancina introduces himself as a visiting scholar at Rutgers Law School’s Center for Immigrant Justice and an anthropologist with extensive ethnographic research experience.
• He has spent 15 years working directly with immigrants, police officers, and local officials involved with sanctuary policies.

2. ICE and Sanctuary Cities—Definitions and Public Perception

• [04:50] Mancina explains ICE’s origins (post-9/11 DHS reorganization) and its reliance on local police for enforcement.

• Local law enforcement serves as ICE’s “force multipliers,” providing crucial info and operational cooperation, often more so than ICE could manage alone due to its limited resources.

  “ICE calls local police officers by and large force multipliers—people who are auxiliary forces... not themselves ICE agents, but who can act in an auxiliary, supportive manner to ICE.”
  —Peter Mancina [05:00]

• Sanctuary cities generally enact policies limiting local police involvement in federal civil immigration law enforcement, but exceptions are routinely built in (e.g., for “serious or violent crimes”).

3. The Reality of Sanctuary Policies—Contradictions and Exceptions

• [06:45] Sanctuary policies are often presented as pro-immigrant but, according to Mancina, tend to function as “immigration enforcement cooperation policies with an immigrant-friendly face.”

• Local law enforcement takes advantage of policy exceptions, effectively facilitating ICE operations in many cases.

  “What ends up happening is local law enforcement often will take advantage of these exceptions...and they end up transferring and helping deport a lot of people in sanctuary jurisdictions for this reason.”
  —Peter Mancina [07:34]

• Cooperation isn’t due to policy violations but because the “spirit” of sanctuary is undermined by practicalities and the broad discretion policies allow.

4. Symbolic Politics vs. Policy Implementation

• [13:52] Host Steven Pimpire asks if the public has been misled regarding the intent and effect of sanctuary policies.

• Mancina suggests the policies carry “aspirational components” rooted in symbolic values, but police cannot fully implement them due to their core public safety mission.

  “There’s this aspirational component to sanctuary policies...we put these values into these laws and they actually cannot be implemented by police in the role that we’ve given police in society.”
  —Peter Mancina [14:37]

5. Limits of Reform and Ways Forward

• [17:34] Mancina outlines how, while true non-cooperation is difficult for police, other public agencies (e.g., health, social services) can more effectively refuse ICE collaboration.

• He points to community organizing as a vital tool for supporting immigrants beyond mere policy change.

  “Policy is just one instrument for the transformation of society. And so you have to recognize its limits...and you also have to recognize the consequences of it.”
  —Peter Mancina [19:26]

• Drastic changes in the societal role of police would be necessary for meaningful non-cooperation.

6. The Trump Administration’s “Siege” Tactics and Policy Trends

• [20:43] Under Trump’s second term, Mancina notes “massive city-wide sieges”—high-profile enforcement events meant to generate publicity and political capital, while everyday ICE operations continue much as before.

• Mechanisms for identifying undocumented immigrants (e.g., jail fingerprint checks) have expanded under both Democratic and Republican administrations.

• The 287(g) program, deputizing local police as federal immigration agents, has grown significantly—from 135 agencies previously to about 1,200 by 2025.

  “It really is a theater, an arena that is causing a lot of damage. It has a real effect... So it’s not just a symbolic PR stunt... It is real and it is affecting people’s lives and it’s terrifying everybody.”
  —Peter Mancina [23:15]

7. Body Camera Footage—A New Frontier for Oversight

• [24:30] Body camera videos from both local police and ICE agents are now valuable research tools, though access is often contested.
• Mancina plans to expand research into new cities (like San Francisco) and monitor the growing use of video evidence to study enforcement.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “ICE calls local police officers...force multipliers.” [05:00]
• “Sanctuary policies...often function as immigration enforcement cooperation policies with an immigrant friendly face.” [07:34]
• “We put these values into these laws and they actually cannot be implemented by police in the role that we've given police in society.” [14:37]
• “Policy is just one instrument for the transformation of society.” [19:26]
• “It really is a theater, an arena that is causing a lot of damage. It's not just symbolic PR stunt... It is real and it is affecting people's lives.” [23:15]

Key Timestamps

• 02:22 — Mancina’s background and research overview
• 04:50 — What is ICE? What is a sanctuary city?
• 06:45 — Policies in practice: Cooperation under sanctuary rules
• 13:52 — Policy symbolism vs. implementation reality
• 17:34 — Reform prospects and organizational obstacles
• 20:43 — Trends under recent administrations; “siege” tactics
• 24:30 — Body cameras, transparency, and future research

Takeaways

Peter Mancina's research complicates conventional wisdom around sanctuary cities, showing how, despite their pro-immigrant rhetoric, these jurisdictions' policies still enable substantial cooperation with federal immigration enforcement. The “spirit” of sanctuary is undermined by procedural exceptions and enduring institutional relationships between police and ICE. Meaningful change, Mancina argues, would require a radical rethinking of the role of police in society—and, in the meantime, concerted community organizing and policy shifts outside law enforcement remain crucial strategies for supporting immigrant communities.