Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Eleonora Matiacci
Guest: Rachel Myrick, Associate Professor of Political Science at Duke University
Book Discussed: Polarization and International Politics: How Extreme Partisanship Threatens Global Stability (Princeton University Press, 2025)
Air Date: November 1, 2025

This episode features a thoughtful discussion with Professor Rachel Myrick about her new book, which interrogates how extreme political polarization in democracies, especially the U.S., is eroding the historical advantages these regimes possess in foreign policy. Myrick reflects on the origins of her research, methodological challenges, principal findings, and the implications for policymakers and scholars.

Main Themes & Purpose

• To explore how political polarization undermines democracies’ effectiveness and advantages in international politics.
• To offer a corrective to the “democratic advantage” tradition in international relations.
• To share new data, empirical research, and implications for both scholars and practitioners.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Book’s Origin Story and Motivation

• Rachel Myrick details how an observed disconnect between domestic polarization debates and international relations theory spurred her work.
  • Quote: “Polarization wasn't really a new phenomenon… But I wasn't actually learning much about polarization in my classes on international relations.” (03:08–03:46)
• Observes that polarization’s effects are visible not only in the U.S. but also in Brazil, Israel, India, Germany, South Korea, and Taiwan.

2. Core Argument of the Book

• Myrick positions the book as a corrective to the “democratic advantage” tradition in IR, which asserts democracies are advantaged in foreign policy due to:
  • Vertical constraints (public accountability via elections)
  • Horizontal constraints (checks by other branches, political opposition)
• She contends extreme polarization erodes both constraint systems, thus undermining:
  1. Stability: Consistent policies over time
  2. Credibility: Ability to signal intentions to allies and adversaries
  3. Reliability: Capability to honor commitments
  • Quote: “The main argument... is that these more extreme forms of polarization are eroding these systems of vertical and horizontal constraint… and in turn, that undermines each of these three democratic advantages.” (05:41–06:17)

3. Surprising Turns in Research

• Initially focused on ideological polarization but discovered that even without clear partisan programmatic differences, polarization disrupts foreign policy.
  • Example: Politicization can reduce predictability and institutional stability even if platforms don’t radically diverge.
  • Quote: “There are lots of different ways polarization could affect foreign policy, not strictly just about ideological divergence...” (08:20–08:33)

4. Methodological Approach

• Mixed-Methods:
  • Cross-national analysis: Myrick developed new datasets measuring polarization tailored to her theoretical concerns.
  • In-depth U.S. case study: Leveraged public opinion surveys, congressional voting data, speeches, and interviews to trace the impact on each democratic advantage.
  • Quote: “The approach was to collect lots of different pieces of evidence that might resonate with different audiences… something you can do in a book-length project.” (10:49–11:21)

Methodological Challenges

• The hardest part was conceptualizing and measuring polarization cross-nationally.
  • Constructed her own datasets since off-the-shelf measures were insufficient.
  • Quote: “I struggled a lot with that and ultimately decided that I couldn't really use off the shelf data… building a new data set that went through and identified the political party of democratic leaders and the relevant opposition…” (13:19–13:58)

5. Implications for Policymakers and Practitioners

• The book reviews and proposes strategies to:
  • Reduce polarization (congressional and social forms)
  • Insulate national security and foreign policy institutions from partisanship
• Notable approaches discussed:
  • Building cross-partisan legislative coalitions where consensus exists
  • Proposals for “partisan truces” in sensitive policy areas
  • Reforms to strengthen nonpartisan bureaucracies
  • Quote: “The book talks a bit about strategies to build better cross-partisan legislative coalitions… and some potential reforms… to reduce their vulnerability to politicization.” (16:01–16:45)

6. Scholarly Reception and Critiques

• Three recurring critiques:
  1. Polarization isn’t as big an issue in foreign versus domestic policy (she partially agrees, but says the problem is growing and underappreciated).
  2. Some argue polarization could be healthy, introducing contestation to groupthink. Myrick responds that today’s “extreme” polarization does more harm by crowding out substantive debate.
  3. IR scholars say her argument doesn’t overturn the “democratic advantage” thesis—she positions her book as a corrective, not a refutation.
  • Quote: “To the extent that polarization is reflecting healthy partisan disagreement … that’s certainly a good thing. But the type of polarization … right now… is crowding out those deeper, richer, more substantive debates.” (19:38–20:22)

7. Evolving Thoughts and Contemporary Relevance

• Myrick has become more concerned post-book, especially after the re-election of Donald Trump.
  • She reflects that writing during the Biden administration shaped a more optimistic tone in the book; recent developments have intensified her concerns.
  • Quote: “If I'm being honest, I think a lot of that thinking was informed by the fact that I was writing this book during the Biden administration… with the reelection of Donald Trump, a lot of the themes of the book feel even more relevant…” (21:17–22:12)

8. Next Research Project

• Her next project investigates the reverse causal arrow: how international events and threats impact patterns of domestic polarization.
  • Briefly references her article, “Do External Threats Unite or Divide?” on how rising threats (e.g., China) might unify or further divide the U.S. and other democracies.
  • Quote: “If you think about the first project as a sort of inside out exploration… the second book I want to be about the reverse question…” (23:10–23:34)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On the research gap:
  “I wasn’t actually learning much about polarization in my classes on international relations…” — Rachel Myrick (03:36)

• Core argument in a nutshell:
  “These more extreme forms of polarization are eroding these systems of vertical and horizontal constraint within democracies. And in turn, that undermines each of these three democratic advantages.” — Rachel Myrick (05:41–06:17)

• On measuring polarization:
  “I struggled a lot with that and ultimately decided that I couldn't really use off the shelf data. I had to construct my own data set…” — Rachel Myrick (13:14–13:58)

• On policy implications:
  “The book talks a bit about strategies to build better cross-partisan legislative coalitions… and some potential reforms… to reduce their vulnerability to politicization.” — Rachel Myrick (16:01–16:45)

• On evolving concerns:
  “If I'm being honest, I think a lot of that thinking was informed by the fact that I was writing this book during the Biden administration… with the reelection of Donald Trump, a lot of the themes of the book feel even more relevant…” — Rachel Myrick (21:17–22:12)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Origin Story & Motivation: 02:16–04:01
• Book’s Argument: 04:11–06:22
• Surprising Research Insights: 06:31–08:40
• Research Methodology: 09:02–11:42
• Methodological Challenges: 13:11–14:43
• Policy Implications: 14:54–17:12
• On Critiques & Scholarly Reception: 17:32–21:01
• How Her Thinking Has Evolved: 21:08–22:53
• Future Projects: 23:01–24:31

Memorable Moments

• Discussion of the “non-dramatic” book cover choice as an intentional push against the usual alarmism (21:22)
• Myrick’s candid acknowledgment of her growing alarm about the subject area after the completion of the book (21:17–22:53)
• Host Eleonora’s surprise at the critique that polarization might be good for foreign policy (19:22)

Tone and Language

The conversation maintains an academic, analytical tone but is approachable and candid, especially as Myrick discusses her own intellectual journey, surprises, and emotional responses to recent political changes. The host’s engagement is warm, facilitating an open exchange that respects both scholarly rigor and the timely urgency of the topic.

This summary provides a comprehensive yet digestible overview of Rachel Myrick’s interview and the major themes of her book, serving listeners and non-listeners alike with a detailed map of the episode’s content and intellectual contributions.