Podcast Summary:

Podcast: New Books Network — Radio ReOrient
Episode: Refugees and Sanctuary, with Rosie Tapsfield
Hosts: Claudia Radiven & Saeed Khan
Guest: Rosie Tapsfield (Director of Operations, City of Sanctuary UK)
Release Date: December 22, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Radio ReOrient explores the complex realities of refugees and sanctuary in the UK. Hosts Claudia Radiven and Saeed Khan speak with Rosie Tapsfield from City of Sanctuary UK about the shifting political climate around refugees, the legacy of empire and colonialism, the role of Islamophobia in migration discourses, and how both policies and narratives affect people seeking safety. The discussion covers how City of Sanctuary operates, the impact of rising hostility, and ways individuals and communities can actively support and change the conversation around migration and refuge.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to City of Sanctuary UK and Rosie's Role

(03:20–06:10)

• Rosie Tapsfield explains that City of Sanctuary UK is both a movement and a network striving for welcome and belonging for all, especially asylum seekers and refugees.
• The organization operates through about 80 local groups and collaborates with institutions like universities, schools, councils, and more.
• It gives “Sanctuary Awards” to recognize places excelling in providing welcome.
• Rosie’s role as Director of Operations entails everything from staff management to supporting groups and setting strategy.
  • Quote (Rosie, 03:39):

    “City of Sanctuary...is a movement about trying to create welcome and belonging for all, but particularly for people who are seeking sanctuary in the UK.”

2. Migration, Empire, and Changing Perceptions of Refugees

(06:10–10:42)

• Saeed reflects on historical shifts, noting refugees were once seen as a distinct, more “deserving” group, but now are increasingly stigmatized alongside all migrants.
• Rosie: There's no longer a clear differentiation; anti-migrant rhetoric now sweeps all categories together, rooted in colonial histories and ongoing racism.
  • Quote (Rosie, 07:58):

    “Those historical injustices are still very much woven into today's structures and policies...People flee from conflict zones that have direct links to colonial powers.”

• Acknowledgement that many refugees have ties to the UK (family, language, culture)—a result of empire and colonization.

3. Hierarchies of “Deservingness,” the Nation-State, and the Border

(10:42–14:54)

• Discussion about persistent hierarchies among migrants: “deserving” vs. “undeserving,” shaped by nationality, background, and media.
• Claudia asks what a world without forced displacement or borders could look like.
• Rosie: It's hard to even imagine alternatives when political discourse has become so toxic and punitive—debates about open borders or de-bordering are now marginalized as “extreme.”
  • Quote (Rosie, 12:38):

    “All the things that we've talked about...the anti-migrant narrative...makes it harder and harder to visualize what it would look like that didn’t make refugeehood necessary.”

4. Contemporary Climate and Impact on Sanctuary Work

(14:54–20:51)

• Saeed observes a post-Covid intensification of the hostile atmosphere toward refugees.
• Rosie details operational challenges:
  • Rising racist attacks and protests against asylum housing.
  • Security fears now drive procedures for welcoming events (checks, registration)—counter to the ethos of welcome.
  • Example: A misinformation campaign tied to a Valentine’s Day event caused threats, media attacks, and real-life harassment against City of Sanctuary, derailing their work for weeks.
  • Quote (Rosie, 15:57):

    “Five years ago would have been unthinkable, are now common and normal. Everybody’s thinking about their security...which are the opposite of making people feel welcome.”

  • Memorable moment (18:15):

    “Within 24 hours of this being posted on social media, we had hundreds of emails into our organization—threatening, harassing emails...This resulted in mainstream press articles...and lists of schools going viral.”

5. Islamophobia, Media Narratives, and Dangerous Stereotypes

(23:24–27:30)

• Claudia raises the role of Islamophobia, especially after high-profile events where refugees were misidentified as Muslims; media ties migration to terrorism and crime.
• Rosie notes that “Islamophobia, grooming gangs, young men, protecting our women and girls—it’s all wrapped up in a messy parcel the far right uses highly effectively.”
  • Quote (Rosie, 26:04):

    “We increasingly see the conflating of asylum, Islamophobia, grooming gangs...all wrapped up in this messy parcel that the far Right are using…and using highly effectively.”

• Rosalind highlights how protests and “protecting our women and girls” rhetoric are weaponized against refugees, reinforcing negative stereotypes.

6. Societal Shifts and What Can Be Done

(27:30–31:16)

• Saeed draws parallels with US experiences—immigrants of various backgrounds targeted across generations, leaders using dehumanizing language.
• Rosie on hope and action:
  • Despite negative climate, “absolutely amazing stories of people…going above and beyond” emerge daily—volunteers, local councils, and sanctuary initiatives offer real welcome.
  • Shifting the narrative requires campaigning, advocacy, and amplifying positive examples.
  • Encourages continued dialogue about borders, the right to move, and a society enriched by migration.
  • Quote (Rosie, 29:11):

    “People are going to move, and people have a right to move...Aren't we a better society and culture for that?”

7. Post-Interview Reflections: Decolonial Framing & Contextual Analysis

(32:00–41:33)

• Co-hosts reflect on border regimes, empire, and how contemporary exclusion is rooted in efforts to preserve a national/ethnic identity (whiteness, post-Christian secularity).
• Islamophobia is identified as a form of ethno-nationalism, shaping who belongs; refugees are “Muslimized” regardless of their actual identity, inheriting fears associated with Muslims.
  • Quote (Chella, 32:23):

    “Islamophobia [is] related to or...caused by ethno-nationalism...where the state is for one racially defined group of people.”

• Conversation highlights the amnesia around empire—western societies forget their own role in creating the circumstances for contemporary migration and refugee flows.
• Importance of historical consciousness is stressed:
  • Quote (A, 41:33):

    “We are here because you were there—a direct result of empire...reminding the colonizer that refugees and migrant people exist because of empire.”

• The episode points to the need for decolonial resistance and reframing of the debate, centering history and context.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “City of Sanctuary...is a movement about trying to create welcome and belonging for all, but particularly for people who are seeking sanctuary in the UK.”
  – Rosie Tapsfield (03:39)

• “Those historical injustices are still very much woven into today's structures and policies...People flee from conflict zones that have direct links to colonial powers.”
  – Rosie Tapsfield (07:58)

• “All the things that we've talked about...the anti-migrant narrative...makes it harder and harder to visualize what it would look like that didn’t make refugeehood necessary.”
  – Rosie Tapsfield (12:38)

• “Five years ago would have been unthinkable, are now common and normal. Everybody’s thinking about their security...which are the opposite of making people feel welcome.”
  – Rosie Tapsfield (15:57)

• “We increasingly see the conflating of asylum, Islamophobia, grooming gangs...all wrapped up in this messy parcel that the far Right are using…and using highly effectively.”
  – Rosie Tapsfield (26:04)

• “People are going to move, and people have a right to move...Aren't we a better society and culture for that?”
  – Rosie Tapsfield (29:11)

• “Islamophobia [is] related to or...caused by ethno-nationalism...where the state is for one racially defined group of people.”
  – Chella Ward (32:23)

• “We are here because you were there—a direct result of empire...reminding the colonizer that refugees and migrant people exist because of empire.”
  – (A, 41:33)

Memorable Moments

• Rosie recounts a viral misinformation campaign attacking City of Sanctuary’s Valentine's campaign, leading to hundreds of threatening emails and national headlines—demonstrating how hostile climates produce real-world consequences for refugee support organizations. (18:10–20:50)
• The hosts reflect poignantly on how refugees are cast as unwelcome “others,” not just newcomers but even long-established minorities—tying in the dangerous “great replacement” rhetoric and discuss the lasting aftershocks of colonialism. (23:24–27:30; 38:28–41:33)

Conclusion

This episode offers a rich, multifaceted discussion on sanctuary, refugees, and the toxic narratives shaping their lives in the UK and beyond. It draws clear connections between contemporary racism, Islamophobia, and colonial legacy. Rosie Tapsfield’s firsthand accounts highlight both the acute challenges faced by those seeking sanctuary and the courage of communities building welcome amid adversity. The closing reflections call for historical awareness and decolonial resistance as essential to any meaningful change.