Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Michael Rosino
Guest: Robert F. Carley (Associate Professor of International Affairs, Texas A&M)
Book Discussed: Culture and Tactics: Gramsci, Race, and the Politics of Practice (SUNY Press, 2019)
Date: September 23, 2025

In this episode, Michael Rosino interviews Robert F. Carley about his book that revisits the relevance of Antonio Gramsci’s political thought, especially on cultural practice, social movements, and racial politics. Together, they explore the intersections of sociology and cultural studies, the concept of ideological contention in activist organizations, and how Gramsci’s theory provides fresh insights for understanding and engaging with contemporary social justice struggles.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genesis and Purpose of Culture and Tactics

[03:09–07:14]

• Robert Carley’s Background:
  Carley describes his path—PhD training in sociology and cultural studies—leading to a cross-disciplinary approach.
• Book Origins:
  The book grew out of two dissertation chapters—one developing "ideological contention" (critiquing frame alignment in social movement studies), and the other engaging with Gramsci’s writings on subaltern groups, responding to Stuart Hall’s work on race and cultural studies.
• Bridging Social Movement Studies and Cultural Studies:
  Carley positions the book as enabling a dialogue between the more structured, empirical field of social movement studies and the open, meaning-focused field of cultural studies.
  • “Why not social movements?” ([06:56] C) — noting that while subcultures have long been studied, there’s rich insight in applying cultural studies methods to social movements.

2. Practical Insights for Scholars and Activists

[08:15–14:29]

• Learning Across Disciplines:
  Carley emphasizes the value of making a "detour through Stuart Hall" to rethink the sociological imagination and the connection between theory, politics, and practice.

• Stuart Hall’s Approach:
  Carley paraphrases Ben Carrington and Larry Grossberg, explaining Hall’s method of connecting micro/macro, theory/everyday, grounded in the political moment:

  • “…there's a tension in his work with how he connects the micro to the macro, the everyday to the abstract, and theory to everyday practices. And I think that actually nails it with Hall.” ([09:18] C)

• Theory as Dialogue:
  Emphasizes that theory should be approached as a “conversation”—not just applied, but critically interrogated:

  • “The only theory worth having is the one you have to fight off. Because I see so many people saying, I'm applying so and so's theory. And it's like, well...what's the critical framework through which you're approaching your theory?” ([11:52] C)

• Political Project:
  Stresses theory and practice should align with conscious political projects, not disciplinary boundaries.

  • “It's not a question of we meet. We must stay within the discipline. It's a question of how do I address this problem.” ([12:55] C)

3. Ideological Contention: Inside Social Movements

[15:56–29:27]

• Defining Ideological Contention:
  Carley describes it as both external (against opponents) and internal (within a movement), critiquing static frame alignment models in social movement theory.
  • “When movements respond to external opponents, there's a contention there. When movements produce a strategy, there's contention within the movement.” ([16:23] C)
• Conflict as Resource:
  Draws on David Graeber and Francesca Polletta, framing internal struggle as a site of “political pleasure” and productive disagreement.
  • “Consensus is conscious. It's reasoned. Differences are a resource because they more broadly inform where it is that you're going to land.” ([18:53] C, Graeber paraphrase)
• Gramsci’s Example:
  Uses Gramsci’s letters and writing post-Factory Council movement to demonstrate the crucial role of respecting the autonomy of different groups in broader coalitions.
  • “The autonomy of different groups participating in a movement had to be respected because they were trying to achieve their goals.” ([21:07] C)
• Organic Relations:
  Gramsci’s term “organic” signals the quality and seriousness of connections among groups—conveying alignment through real (often conflicting) relationships.
• Critiquing “Frame Alignment”:
  Carley critiques frame alignment approaches as too simplistic, noting that they often sidestep the influence of diverse ideologies within organizations.
  • “For me, that means right there that Westby's model cannot pose the question: is an ideology developed from participation in a sustained and organized protest action?” ([24:22] C)
• Turning Findings into Questions:
  Carley reframes findings from the literature as research questions to guide future inquiry into internal struggles, collaboration, and heterogeneity in movements.

4. Gramsci, Race, and the Politics of Practice

[32:35–45:42]

• Gramsci’s Approach to Race:
  Carley clarifies that Gramsci does not address race systemically, but his concepts offer tools for contemporary analysis.
  • “Gramsci's influence on the study of race should have some limitations given how race was understood during the time that he lived.” ([32:41] C)
• Subaltern Groups and Intersectionality:
  Gramsci's concept of "subaltern" encompasses class, race, gender, religion, nationalism, and language, foreshadowing intersectional analysis.
  • “…subaltern groups is sort of a proto-intersectional approach, right?” ([39:33] C)
• Conjuncture:
  Both Gramsci and Stuart Hall’s use of "conjuncture" helps explain why forms of racism change in response to shifting political and cultural contexts.
  • “…the conjuncture becomes this analytical framework that in many ways tracks the ways that subordination is organized…” ([39:48] C)
• Critique of Pseudo-Science:
  Gramsci’s critique of criminal anthropology (racial pseudo-science) is highlighted as surprisingly contemporary, showing a constructivist and humanist concern for how racism is rationalized.
  • “If you really look at the way that Gramsci did write about race...his critique is alarmingly current.” ([44:07] C)
• Stuart Hall’s Update:
  Stuart Hall’s "Gramsci's Relevance for the Study of Race and Ethnicity" is recommended as essential reading, updating Gramsci for modern race analysis.

5. Carley’s Ongoing Work and New Directions

[46:07–48:44]

• Since Culture and Tactics:
  • Cultural Studies, Cultural Studies Methodology and Political Strategy: Revisits the idea of the “conjuncture,” correcting past misreadings of Gramsci.
  • The Cultural Production of Social Movements: Extends previous arguments; reviewed in Social Movement Studies.
  • Distortion Cultural Theory in the Interregnum: In-progress, this book addresses culture’s role in moments of crisis and strategies for sociopolitical response.
• Optimism & Pessimism:
  The host notes that such scholarship remains timely: “A little bit of cynicism, a little bit of optimism—maybe ‘pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will,’ as we would say in Gramsci's terms.” ([48:44] D)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Cross-Disciplinary Thinking:
  "The book overall was an attempt to think together or at the same time how social movement studies and cultural studies might talk about social protest and collective action." ([06:18] C)
• On Theory as Struggle:
  “The only theory worth having is the one you have to fight off.” ([11:52] C; quoting Stuart Hall)
• On Organic Relations and Movements:
  “There’s several places in the full notebooks where Gramsci attaches this adjective organic to things… ascribe[s] weight and quality to the kinds of connections made between groups, organizations and ideas.” ([22:40] C)
• On Gramsci and Race:
  “Gramsci gives us a way… through this concept of subaltern, which sets certain things that we study in a particular relation and grounds it within an interpretive and analytical framework.” ([40:40] C)
• On Research Relevance:
  “As long as you're, you're talking about these problems, they're definitely not going to go anywhere, at least I don't worry about that.” ([48:44] D)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |------------|-----------------------------------------------------------| | 03:09 | Guest introduction—background and book origins | | 07:14 | Host praises bridge between disciplines | | 08:15 | Practical takeaways for scholars/activists | | 09:18 | Stuart Hall's influence and Carrington’s perspective | | 11:52 | “The only theory worth having is the one you have to fight off” | | 15:56 | Introducing “ideological contention” concept | | 18:53 | David Graeber’s “political pleasure” in movement meetings | | 21:07 | Gramsci on the autonomy of groups in coalition | | 24:22 | Critique of frame alignment and Westby’s model | | 29:27 | Re-framing findings as new research questions | | 32:35 | Gramsci’s relevance for race scholarship | | 39:33 | “Subaltern” as proto-intersectionality | | 44:07 | Gramsci’s critique of racial pseudo-science | | 46:07 | Carley’s more recent/forthcoming books | | 48:44 | Optimism and closing remarks |

Conclusion

This episode provides a profound and accessible examination of how Gramsci’s political concepts—particularly ideological contention and subalternity—remain vital for understanding and transforming contemporary racial politics and collective action. Carley encourages bridging academic disciplines and staying attuned to the tensions, debates, and openness within movements themselves. He champions a critical, dialogical approach to theory and the necessity of contextual, intersectional thinking in contemporary sociological practice.

For anyone interested in the theory and practice of social movements, cultural studies, or the evolving politics of race, Culture and Tactics and the ideas discussed in this episode are essential resources.