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Robert F. Williams, "The Airborne Mafia: The Paratroopers Who Shaped America's Cold War Army" (Cornell UP, 2025)
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Marshall Poe
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Nathan Moore
Welcome to the New Books Network. I'm Nathan Moore and today we're speaking with Robert Williams, whose new book, the Airborne the Paratroopers who Shaped America's Cold War army, has just been released by Cornell University Press. This book explores how airborne paratroopers influenced military culture, strategy and identity in the U.S. army during the Cold War. Dr. Williams, welcome to the program.
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Dr. Robert Williams
Thank you, Nathan. It's really an honor and a Pleasure to be on this program. It's, you know, I've listened to various episodes throughout the year. So it's really, like I said, it's really an honor. Thank you.
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Nathan Moore
Can you tell us how you came to this project and what drew you to the airborne world and its role in shaping the Cold War Army?
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Dr. Robert Williams
Well, yeah, it's, it's, it's a very personal story. Two parts. Right. I'm, I'm a, I'm from a military family. Right. These days they kind of say that the military is a family business and. Well, my grandfather was in the army During World War II, in the early Cold War period that I study. So that's part of it. The other part is I joined, when I joined the Army, I ended up after my first unit was not an airborne unit, but then I ended up in airborne units. And I saw for myself the sort of the different culture that exists in those in those units. But I also could see how it affected the army as a whole. And so when I got to, when I ended up in graduate school really as an undergraduate, and I was told to write a paper about an innovation in military history, I chose, you know, jumping out of airplanes. And I remembered this article from the Army Times. It was a front page article. It said, does the army even need airborne. Right. And I was at what is again Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and you could hear the. Where the 82nd Airborne Division is stationed. And it was like you could hear the entire post grown. It was hilarious. Anyway, that undergirded the paper I wrote as an undergraduate, which then became eventually a writing sample about airborne culture, which then morphed into the dissertation and now the book that we're discussing today. So yeah, it just stemmed from my own personal experience and then studying a little bit about organizational culture and realizing that there's really some fruitful research to be had here. And so there, off I went researching that. Yeah, that's, that's basically, that's how kind of how it, how it came about.
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Nathan Moore
And for the listeners who may not be familiar, what was the airborne mafia? Why did paratroopers hold such a unique place in the Army's identity during this period?
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Dr. Robert Williams
Yeah, the airborne mafia, when I'm using that, I'm referring to this sort of core group of officers who were started the Airborne experiment in the U.S. army. It starts in 1940, really full, you know, full go in 1940 with it with an airborne test platoon. And then these officers then make their way into the different jump units and then lead those units through training and then into combat in World War II. Many of these officers then become very prominent members of the US army after the war, rising to positions of leadership such as Chief of Staff to successive chiefs of staff in the 1950s were, were airborne division commanders in World War II. And then there's others that ascended to three star level and other four star positions throughout the Cold War period. And that's really the core, the crux of this mafia who are like any mafia, they take care of their own, but they also impart their cultural ideas on the rest of the Army. As the army is changing, what you see in how the army transforms, specifically during the 1950s, you see in that cultural traits, cultural tenets that were developed in airborne units for World War II. And some of those just, you know, without going too in depth right now, include ideas about decentralization which you see in the, in the Pentomac division command and control of five subordinate units, which was, which is new to the army, which you also see in the Potomac Division, which is the reorganization of the army to fight on the proposed atomic battlefield in the 50s. But also ideas about rapid response and readiness going to the strategic Army Corps and using airborne forces as a, as a sort of easy button. If a crisis happens. You can, you can send these guys wherever they need to be. Whether they jump or not is immaterial. And then, and then finally helicopters are sort of the next in air mobile warfare in Vietnam is sort of the next evolution, if you will, of the sort of tactics that were being used in World War II.
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Nathan Moore
The paratroopers, they cultivated a very distinct identity. How did things like uniforms, badges and rituals function almost as a cultural performance within the Army?
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Dr. Robert Williams
Yeah, so that's a, that's a good one. That's a good, a good point to make there. So you know, when the airborne units, when, when, when the army started creating these units, they wanted to, you know, make them feel special. Right. Make them stand out from the rest of the army as a, as a sort of elite type unit. And one, one of the ways to do that is special uniforms and different insignia and so, and of course rituals. So in, in the, in the US army airborne that included jump boots or very famous jump boots that instead of having which, which the paratroopers would blouse their pants into, which would look much different than the regular infantry, which would have regular boots with, with gators over, over the top, which then gave it a straight appearance. And it conjured up the term straight leg infantry, which then now a derogatory term that airborne soldiers use. To this day for non airborne infantry is just leg because it comes all from the, the 40s right there from World War II. Another one would be the, the distinctive airborne patch with the parachute and collider on it that they would wear on their garrison caps. And then of course the airborne, a special uniform was developed to survive sort of the rigors of the jump. And, and, and it included more pockets so they could carry more stuff. Right. And that sort of. And there's another small example of how airborne cultural artifact becomes the rest of the army because to this day now soldiers have, you know, cargo pockets on their, on their pants or pockets on their shoulder sleeves and stuff like that. But rituals you mentioned are also important here, right? And so in addition to making these, these soldiers stand out when they're around other non airborne soldiers, certain rituals kind of inculcate these members into the culture and into those units as members of that unit. And a very famous one is known as the prop blast. The prop blast was a drinking ritual that included drinking a grog type substance out of a special cup and singing songs about dying while jumping and jumping off of various height from chair to counter and whatnot and performing satisfactory parachute landing falls as if they were on a jump. It, you know, very macabre sort of songs. Very, very. Yeah, it's, it's very unique to the airborne and it's kind of used to this day as a sort of initiation type ceremony. Not so less the drinking, but more using the term and the idea of doing something special to inculcate new officers into, into and, and, and non commissioned officers into, into the various units.
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Nathan Moore
Would you say the airborne ethos operated like a myth or a legend? And to what extent was the airborne identity about masculinity or even class within the army?
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Dr. Robert Williams
Those are two incredible questions I think. I don't think so much as a myth as it is maybe become legendary. Right. Because there's, there's true exploits out there that then, you know, especially In World War II, you know, you know, I think of the 101st Airborne Division at Bastogne, right. And how that has become this sort of idealized notion of a light American unit vastly outnumbered, holding out against the German, you know, the hordes, right. Trying to attack them at bestone completely surrounded, which is great. But it kind of glosses over the fact that, you know, it was actually two divisions worth of Americans there, right. Not just 101st, but their. There were a couple of armored units. They have lots of artillery to include two famous all black artillery units. That were involved in some of the massacres at the hands of Germans beforehand. And these sort of get lost to history, and they're really important parts of that. So that's where I kind of think of it as sort of legendary. Plus, on top of that, the reporting, right. Coming back during these fights, specifically Bastogne, I mean, there's a great article about, you know, the hunter in the New York times about the 101st being relieved and, you know, the commander famously saying, you know, we didn't need relief and all that sort of stuff. But this is, this is through throughout the war because they were very, very smart about having press accompany their operations. So the very first major jump in Sicily in July 1943, Colonel James Gavin has a reporter by the name of John. John. I think it's John Thompson, nicknamed Beaver because of his big beard. There's a pretty cool picture of them at a, at a wall in Sicily. And this, this guy is in, he's in US Fatigues, right? In helmet, but he's had this big beard. You're like, what the heck? Because that doesn't, you know, these guys are supposed to be shaving, right? But it's, it's this reporter for the Chicago Tribune and throughout the war, they're very intelligent about using the press to kind of tell their story. And I think that is a key component to both building the legend as. As it continues throughout, you know, the last 80 years, and also maintaining airborne forces in the post war. In the post war Army. Army structure, especially before these, these guys become, you know, the three and four stars that control everything. But then you asked about, about masculinity. Right. And what was the other part of the question? I'm sorry, masculinity.
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Nathan Moore
And it was masculinity and class status within the arm, Right?
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Dr. Robert Williams
Right. Yeah, I think that's, that's a really important thing. There's, you know, a lot of literature about the idea of a hegemonic masculinity. Right. And. And literature, you know, pushing back on that. I think if there is anything in the army that comes close to a hegemonic masculinity, it would be at least in the 40s, you know, airborne, because this is clear. You talk about masculinity and class, right? Well, within the military, there's different, there's different tiers which could be construed as classes of, of soldier, right? Some are cooler and tougher and, and more awesome than the rest. And I think being a paratrooper in 1944 is, is near the top. Right. So that kind of lends itself to a little sort of hegemonic masculinity that. That, you know, pushes itself out across the force and people strive to be a part of that. But. But certainly masculinity in general, right? This is definitely a sort of hyper masculinity that. That embodies paratrooper culture. And I think you see that a lot in how many of the leaders turn their back, if you will, on a little fraternization during down times overseas or kind of, you know, not punishing for offenses against members of the opposite sex as much as they would for, you know, fighting even. And I think that encourages some behavior. I think specifically, you know, I think about the officers stating that there's, you know, there's. They really would think that there's nothing that's like, not, you know, good enough, including women for their. For their. For their troops. Right. And so. And then it also manifests itself in the behavior of leaders. One of the division commanders is famous for, for some of his soldiers, seeing Martha Gelhorn or Marlene Dietrich coming out of his quarters while they're fighting their way across Europe. And these are, you know, Martha Gellhorn, famously Ernest Hemingway's wife, and Marlene Dietrich, a famous German actress who was assisting the Allies. And so, yeah, there. And then. And then there's some pretty famous cases of sexual assault in France on the way home where one of the division commanders, Maxwell Taylor, basically, you know, and I. I'm paraphrasing here, says boys will be boys. You know, sometimes the paratrooper is a little more vigorous than the average soldier. So these things happen instead of, you know, kind of nipping it in the bud and crushing his soldiers for. For these transgressions. So, yeah, I think. I think it does lead itself to some, you know, maybe even toxic masculinity. But it is certainly a type of hyper masculinity that. That has to exist for the, you know, because you're. You're trying to get folks to jump out of airplanes and do all this crazy stuff. I think it lends itself to. To that as well as a sort of nefarious side effect, if you will.
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Nathan Moore
You mentioned a family member that was in World War II. Can you tell us more about the World War II airborne legacy and how it shaped the Cold War perception of these units as they evolved?
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Dr. Robert Williams
Yeah, absolutely. So I think it's like I was mentioning, you know, use of the press. Right. And so I think it's important to. To note that and how you Know, they, these, these units were featured in the press and they were very famous for their exploits throughout the war, especially in the European theater. And so, you know, going into the Cold War, I think that's important because it helps, you know, give these officers notoriety, you know, and of course, they're the same kind of officers that would also probably ascend to four star level positions anyway. And the kind of people that are, that are go getters, right. And that are really career oriented in 1940 are the same people that would want to be in airborne units. So I think it's a little bit of a, of a, of a, you know, self fulfilling feedback loop right here. Right. But so, you know, because they become, you know, major players in the, in the, in the Cold War army. Right. They will then also prioritize airborne units. So there's one moment in the 50s when mid-50s, you know, the army is down to like, you know, 15 divisions and three of them are airborne units, which is a way higher percentage than than you had during World War II. And so I think that kind of speaks to the level of influence that, that those officers had.
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Nathan Moore
What tensions existed between the airborne officers and other army branches and how did these in active duty rivalry shape military decision?
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Dr. Robert Williams
No, that's a great question. Yeah, there are certainly some tensions and I'm thinking specifically toward the late 50s, right. When the airborne chiefs of staff retire. Right. Maxwell Taylor retires in 59 and he's replaced by the time the Army's putting together air mobile units, which are helicopter units. Now we have some armor and cavalry officers that are in charge of the Army. So which is, this is why there's some tension right here in the early 60s, specifically, the army is. The experimental unit to test these divisions is the 11th Airborne Division. They're reflagged as the 11th Air Assault Division. And but when it's time to make them an active duty division and get ready to send them to Vietnam in 60, 65, they're, they're made the 1st Cavalry Division. Which is, which is interesting because it reflects both that Howard Johnson, Army Chief of Staff at the time was, it was, it was the first, it was a calvary guy in World War II. But also I think it reflects the, the mission of, of helicopter units as similar to what a cavalry unit would do, you know, in, in the 19th century. Right. And which is to me which is interesting because that's also kind of the way airborne units functioned in World War II. Right. The horse cavalry is, is all but dead by World War II, by the time the United States enters the war, but the airborne of World War II is conducting missions very similar to what a horse cavalry unit would have been doing in say, the American Civil War. And so I think this sort of tension is good and, but it, you know, it is attention, but it, I think it leads itself to a really, really good confluence of these sort of ideas about, about specifically about Calvary. But I think then as the army evolves, well, first of all, during the 50s, you see less emphasis on, you know, kind of the, the more like regular armor type units. Right. They kind of, they're, they're left alone. Yes, new tanks are being developed, but there's not a lot of change to the structure. Whereas infantry units are undergoing lots of, lots of change to structure and equipment and whatnot. And then by the time the Vietnam War is over now we see Some World War II armor officers in charge of the, of the Army. Creighton Abrams specifically. And this is not to say that he is an anti infantry guy, but you see a much more bigger focus on heavy units coming out of that war as the US army is looking again at a potential conflict with the Soviet Union there in the late Cold War.
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Nathan Moore
One of the strengths of your book is its archival material. Could you talk about the sources you used, the oral histories, the official documents and military records. And was there anything that surprised you?
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Dr. Robert Williams
Yeah, no, absolutely. This is a good story. So first of all, I went into it kind of thinking I would talk more about soldier level culture, right. And you know, singing cadences about C130s taking off and, and all these little things that affect, at the, at the soldier level. But as, as I continued to research, I realized it was a much bigger story than that. And it's like, it's, it's literally the general officer level that, that these, these airborne ideas about jumping behind enemy lines and, and a private and a general are the same until everything gets sorted out. Right. They both have to fight together as basically privates. Right. Whether he's the two star general division commander or not, he's still got to, he's still got to survive until everybody assembles. So seeing how those ideas translated to the army, that, that sort of changed as I, as I got into the archives and seeing, seeing what was going on. But yeah, I, you know, the majority of my research, let's see, I started graduate school and my second semester was when the COVID pandemic hit. And so I was really limited for a while, right. National Archives shut down for a long time. And so I had to kind of find, you know, alternative. Alternative sources and archives that were open. And that was so one. One of the keys was Carlisle and the United States Army Heritage and Education Center. I went there like three or four times. Absolutely fantastic place. And the key documents there are not only the papers of some of these key players, but oral histories. And for a long time, the army did the Senior Officer Oral History Project, where as general officers were retiring, they'd sit down with a couple of colonels and lieutenant colonels that were at the War College. They'd go out wherever and meet them and just chat about their careers. And it is a wealth of information, depending on, you know, on who it is. Right. On who you're researching. But it's just a wealth. It's. It's a wonderful source to. To parse through and add to whatever official records you got. But on top of that, though, like I said, the National Archives wasn't. Wasn't up and running, so I had to find alternative sources. So like Secretary of Defense during the majority of the Eisenhower era, Engine Charlie Wilson, he was involved with a GM plant in Anderson, Indiana, and donated some papers to Anderson University. And I think the library now has his name, actually. And, you know, there. These are like, basically, you know, much of his Secretary of Defense records that you'll find at NARA are also at Anderson. Anderson University's library. So that was cool. Wilbur Brucker, another secretary of the army in the early 60s, his stuff's at the University of Michigan. So I got to go up there and so just finding all these different sources was really. Was really critical and helpful and to be honest, fun to go to these different places and not just going to College park all the time. And I thought that was really good. And then on top of that, using. Using memoir as well. Right. Especially World War II. Right. There's a thousand World War II memoirs. Right. Rightfully so. And, And. And many of them were incredibly useful as I built, especially those chapters. Cold War. You know, less people are writing memoir about. About not going to war. Right, of course. But, you know, I was still able to find. Find useful stuff as well.
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Nathan Moore
What's next for you in your research journey?
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Dr. Robert Williams
Oh, man, I got a lot of irons in the fire right now. So lately I've been. I've been working on taking some of my research and because I have all of Gavin's papers, so I'm working on a project on Gavin and his Cold War influence on sort of broader national security concerns than just the army, because he was influential in the army and outside the army and just a really, really intriguing character to research and then at work. So I work as a historian for Army University Press, and I should have said at the beginning that, you know, nothing I say here represents the views of my organization, the United States army or the United States Government. But for that, though, I'm working on some, some interesting, interesting stuff on, on how the army viewed and tried to accomplish lethality throughout its history. But yeah, that's, that's kind of where I'm at right now.
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Nathan Moore
We use the Cold War term more so as this overarching, ominous presence.
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Dr. Robert Williams
Right.
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Nathan Moore
But what about the Vietnam War or the Korean War or the move towards the Middle East? Do you find, or in your book, do you ever pinpoint those as influential moments for paratroopers?
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Dr. Robert Williams
Yeah, absolutely. I think the Korean War is important insofar as well. I mean, it's, it's an important war for the Army. Right. And the Army's development and the Army's thoughts about its own readiness and it spurs some changes as far as keeping, you know, ready forces ready to, to go to war at a moment's notice. Right. I think one report said that when the Korean War started in, in June 1950, the only unit ready was the 82nd Airborne Division, but they were not committed to that fight. And so that, that spurs a lot of, of thought about, about that and also spurs a lot of thought about how best to use helicopters. So Jim Gavin goes to Korea with a study group. He's not in charge of troops there, but he's as a two star. He goes to study what's going on. And also, by the way, he's looking at how to use nuclear weapons on the battlefield and thinking about that as well because of the way the terrain and the fight was going in Korea. The thought was that these massive attacks from Communists, Big C, Communist forces, be they North Koreans or Chinese or Soviets, would involve tons of, you know, tons of enemy manpower and small yield, low yield atomic weapons would be the answer to stymieing those attacks. Vietnam is important obviously for the, for helicopters. Right. It's known colloquially as the helicopter war. Right. And it's very, you know, all these officers From World War II in airborne units are in charge in, in Vietnam. So it's in many ways sort of an airborne war, even though there's only one real combat jump for Americans. But Westmoreland is very much a member of the airborne mafia. You know, he's, he's not in World War II, but he's, he becomes close colleagues with Gavin and Taylor and is brought into the 82nd shortly after the war. And he was trying to get into the airborne during the war when he, after he worked with 82nd in Sicily with his, his field artillery unit from the 9th Infantry Division. And then, and then, you know, the, the pivot to the Middle east, you know, after, after 1973. Right. And, and specifically after, after 78, President Carter starts this in the President Carter era. They started a rapid deployment Joint task force. Yeah, rdjtf. Yes, I always mess up the order those, but I think that's right. That is a rapid task force to rapidly deploy. That sort of, you know, is the third evolution after the strategic army command becomes the strike command. And it sort of evolves into that task force with the idea of rapidly reinforcing in the Middle east should the Soviets decide to go take some oil fields. And you know, all this is, is sort of stems from these ideas about rapid response and readiness that you see, you know, from as early as, as 1943 when the 82nd, the 504th specifically parachute infantry Regiment is sent to reinforce the beachhead at Salerno on Mark Clark's request when they're about to get, get overrun. And so yeah, I think, I think all of this is sort of stems from that and then, and then you even see it in more modern day stuff as well. But yeah.
- [29:20]
Nathan Moore
Does the legacy of paratroopers remain in the form of museum exhibits? For example, are there places we can go and what bases in America or around the world harbored the majority of paratroopers?
- [29:37]
Dr. Robert Williams
Yeah, Fort Bragg is really the home of the airborne. Right. That's in North Carolina, right outside of Fayetteville, North Carolina. And you know, shortly after the war, while they were still in Berlin on occupation duty, Major General Gavin started collecting artifacts and stuff to create a division museum. So, you know, we talked about the use of the press, but, you know, they were also very, you know, forward thinking about preserving legacy. Right. In terms of a museum. And that had already started while they were overseas. And then it was established, of course, on Fort Bragg when the unit returned to Fort Bragg. And that museum exists there to this day. And that is another place. You know, we were talking earlier about research. I went to the division museum and division records are there, you know, since, since it stood up in 1942. And so I could, I could access all the, and stuff from beforehand for the various subunits. But yeah, that's, that's a wonderful museum. It's on base and then they have a, there's another museum In Fayetteville, it's the Airborne and Special Operations Museum. That is an incredible resource, an incredible place to go to kind of understand, understand the evolution and history of, of the airborne since, since it's, you know, since its inception. Since da Vinci was sketching out ideas for a parachute, actually. But yeah, that's the main one. And then for, at least for the, and this is, we're talking United States army, of course. And then to this day, if you wanted to find other American major airborne units, Fort Richardson Joint Base Elmendorf Richardson in Alaska houses a brigade of the 11th Airborne Division that still jumps. And then, and then in Vicenza, Italy, you'd find the 173rd Airborne Brigade. And they have their own, you know, they maintain their own legacies there as well.
- [31:24]
Nathan Moore
Were you able to get into the history of the parachute as a technology? You really do go in depth on helicopters.
- [31:35]
Dr. Robert Williams
Yeah, no, I didn't. And that might be a fundamental failing there. I mean, I know I just mentioned da Vinci, right? I do a little bit. As far as the development of airborne forces From World War I, Billy Mitchell of the U.S. army proposes dropping a division off of the wings of bombers behind enemy trenches. Right. And then after that, the Soviet Union mostly and the Germans are developing, developing jump units during the inner, you know, what is known as the interwar period. But no, the history of the technology of the parachute. No, I, that would have been, that'd have been really good.
- [32:14]
Nathan Moore
And paratroopers themselves as soldiers, in what ways were they a political force? Did they take their agency outside of the unit?
- [32:26]
Dr. Robert Williams
Yeah, I mean, that's, that's a great question. So the three major characters of my book, right. Matt Ridgway, and they all have incredible middle names too. Matthew Bunker Ridgeway, Maxwell Davenport Taylor and James Maurice Gavin, Right. They all retire. Ridgeway, 55, Gavin of 58, and Taylor in 59. And each of them immediately upon retirement published memoirs that are really incisive and getting after their dislike for the Eisenhower defense policies and this so called new look and what they see as sort of really a morally bankrupt strategy of massive retaliation. And you know, Eisenhower had already been getting away from that and looking more toward what the Kennedy administration entitled Flexible Response. That was already sort of happening, especially in the second Ike administration, but to the army it wasn't enough. Right. And so their influence then helped influence Kennedy's ideas as he is a burgeoning young, you know, senator and then running for president and, and as president. So, you know, these guys are always in Congress. They're testifying right. You know, there's a lot of great pictures with Gavin and lbj, right? When Johnson's in charge of the senate in the 50s and then again. But then, sorry, Gavin then after he retires in 58, in March 1958, he strikes up, you know, a correspondence relationship with, with Kennedy and it's sort of a de facto, right, unofficial foreign policy advisor there and talking about different ideas and stuff. And it's actually Gavin who sends Kennedy a copy of Taylor's book that then, you know, which outlines this, these ideas that become flexible response. Thank you so much, Prashante. After he's retired, he's out for a year. He's if you know, brought in by the Kennedy administration to eventually to be the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, but to. Brought into these special. To a couple of special interest groups about counterinsurgency and other things all in the lead up to Vietnam and is eventually made ambassador to South Vietnam as well. And then, and then of course his, you know, his protege is William Westmoreland who is eventually, you know, in charge of magvie in Vietnam. Gavin also though, is brought in as the, you know, Kennedy brings him on as the ambassador to France at a very heightened political moment where, where relations with Charles de Gaulle are not going very well. And so Kennedy thinks, you know, my read on it is, Kenny, it's like, hey, here's this, this guy who, who helped liberate France, you know, warrior to warrior kind of thing, right? Let's put Gavin over there to build this relationship with the Gaul to kind of ease U.S. french relations. And this is at the height of the Berlin crisis. There's the crisis in Laos going on and things are starting to kind of simmer in South Vietnam as well. And so, and then, and then this continues, right? Taylor's continues to be an important part of the lead up into Vietnam. Gavin becomes an important voice of dissent and Ridgeway against US Involvement in, in Vietnam. Gavin is, is Then, you know, there's, there's a, there's a movement to draft Gavin as a presidential candidate in 68 that he, he shuts that down. But still. And then he's, he's also advising on the governance campaign in 72. So I think, yeah, these, these folks are very political and wield their sort of fame, if you will, cultural and social standing to try to influence, influence change. And you know, I'll go back to Gavin one more time when he retires, when he, when he settles on retirement in late 57, he says he thinks he could do more good for the army on the outside than on the inside, and that's why he retired. So, yeah, I think they really, really did understand their role. They understand civil relations and they understood how to wield that. Then, you know, when not.
- [36:44]
Nathan Moore
When not in uniform, are paratroopers prominent figures in movies, popular culture, news or media that you know of?
- [36:54]
Dr. Robert Williams
Yeah, no, I think, you know, especially in the Cold War. Right. And this kind of helps. Helps everything. There's the, the famous. Oh, my gosh. Battleground. Famous film in 1949, about. About the 101st at Bastone. Right. Very soon after the war, you know, a couple of other great films that help kind of cement the legacy. Cornelius Ryan books turn films. The Longest Day. Right. Being one of them. And then A Bridge Too Far, which, you know, some of the. These, these members of the Airborne mafia helped consult on all these films. Right. Which is really also incredible. But, yeah, I mean, and then, yeah, I mean, I think they're. They're throughout pop culture. I think you'll see, especially after World War II, you'll see. You'll see paratroopers everywhere.
- [37:47]
Nathan Moore
Your book is with Cornell University Press. And how did you start working with Cornell University Press?
- [37:55]
Dr. Robert Williams
Oh, that's a good one. Yeah. So nothing but great things to say about Cornell University Press. But yeah, I, I approached Bethany Wasek, my acquisitions editor, and at smh, I emailed her first about having a meeting. And I. And I just pitched my. Just what I was doing with dissertation. And the reason I chose them is because they published another great book on fighter pilot culture by Michael Hankins called Flying Camelot. And so I was like, okay, this is like, this is for fighter pilots, what my book is for the Airborne. Okay, this is probably where I need to go. And so, yeah, I had a chat with Bethany and the series editor, David Silby, and just kind of went from there. Been nothing but pleased throughout. They're fantastic people all around from, from the acquisitions to the copy editing and everything in between.
- [38:48]
Nathan Moore
Are book signings in your future or meetups, seminars?
- [38:54]
Dr. Robert Williams
Yeah, hopefully. Hopefully. Right. I have tentatively scheduled to talk mid November at the Army Heritage and Education center, where I did the majority probably, or at least second majority of my research besides nara. So that's more to follow on that one as we kind of get. Get the travel and everything hammered out. But it's looking like around Veterans Day, I will be talking about the book there, and then there'll be copies of the book as well.
- [39:23]
Nathan Moore
And to close, if your readers can take anything away from Airborne Mafia, what would it be?
- [39:30]
Dr. Robert Williams
The impact that subcultures can have on larger parent cultures. Right. And you know, the Airborne is not the only subculture at play during the early Cold War. Right. And we talked about some of the tensions. Right. And there's there's a lot of subcultures at play. But I think it's well, if they take away anything from my book, it's that a small subculture can have a monumental and outsized, if you will, impact on its broader parent culture.
- [40:00]
Nathan Moore
Those are great words of wisdom.
- [40:02]
Dr. Robert Williams
Thank you.
- [40:04]
Nathan Moore
That was Dr. Robert Williams discussing his new book, the Airborne the Paratroopers who Shaped America's Cold War Army. It's out now from Cornell University Press, and you can order it directly from their website or anywhere else where books are sold. Thanks for listening to the New Books Network.