Podcast Summary: New Books Network – “Kubrick: An Odyssey” with Robert P. Kolker and Nathan Abrams

Episode Overview In this episode of New Books in Film (New Books Network), host Dan Moran interviews Robert P. Kolker and Nathan Abrams about their 2024 co-authored biography “Kubrick: An Odyssey” (Pegasus Books). The conversation offers rich insights into Stanley Kubrick’s personal life, artistic development, working methods, and legacy, examining both his renowned films and unfinished projects. Through engaging anecdotes, critical reflections, and memorable quotes, the authors illustrate their quest to move beyond the mythology of Kubrick as a reclusive genius into a grounded portrayal of a complex, driven, and often misunderstood artist.

Main Discussion Themes

Humanizing Kubrick: Childhood, Personality, and Early Ambitions

• Upbringing and Personality

  • Kubrick was born in Manhattan (1928) into a comfortable Jewish family. His father, a successful physician, nurtured Stanley’s early interest in photography and chess. He was cosseted, protected, and close to his mother.
  • “He had everything he wanted, including a camera, at an early age, which got him started... [But] he hated school. Barely graduated high school.” — Robert Kolker (04:04)
  • Kubrick’s aversion to conventional paths led to parental concern over his directionless academic life.
  • “He even didn't start to read until a relatively late age. Once he started, he never stopped.” — Robert Kolker (05:32)

• Discovery of Visual Talent

  • At age 16, Kubrick’s staged photograph of a newsvendor upon FDR’s death was published in Look Magazine, kickstarting his photographic career and foreshadowing his knack for controlling narrative and image.
  • Early work for Look demonstrated his skill for composition, staging, and a budding commercial sensibility:
    • “Kubrick asked the vendor to look sadder... Already see Kubrick understanding the form, manipulating it subtly.” — Nathan Abrams (07:51)

Artistic Persona: Ego, Collaboration, and the Myth of the Lone Genius

• Balancing Art and Commerce

  • Contrary to the myth of Kubrick as a solitary, obsessive artist, he consistently worked with teams and cared deeply about his films' commercial success.
  • “He wasn't just the artist. He married an artistic sensibility with a commercial sense as well. He wanted his movies to make money, right?” — Nathan Abrams (09:19)

• Drive, Confidence, and Self-Critique

  • Kolker and Abrams emphasize a nuanced portrait: ambitious and confident, Kubrick also faced struggles, failures, and moments of self-doubt.
  • “We're very keen to paint a tempered picture… it wasn't this egotistic will to power... He made errors and as a result...he kind of reset, rethought.” — Nathan Abrams (16:19)
  • “He always managed up to the end of his career...always working and thinking and knowing what he wanted.” — Robert Kolker (14:56)

The Films: Lessons from Success and Struggle

Early Work and Hollywood

• Fear and Desire (1952)
  • Kubrick’s first feature, financed through family, taught him key technical lessons and pitfalls of on-the-nose abstraction.
  • “He learned not to be abstract… The problem with Fear and Desire is this kind of abstract idea...It's awkward, fascinating, a little boring.” — Robert Kolker (19:21)
  • “He learned to misdirect better...probably by the 60s.” — Nathan Abrams (20:13)
• Spartacus (1960)
  • A foundational learning experience in the pitfalls of Hollywood:
    • “He learned not to make a film like Spartacus. He learned never to work in Hollywood again.” — Robert Kolker (22:22)
    • Developed a preference for British actors—disciplined, prepared, and reliable.

The Kubrick Method: Craft, Detail, and Multiple Takes

• Painstaking Perfectionism
  • Known for retakes and meticulous control over detail (e.g., re-doing sets and costumes on “Eyes Wide Shut”), Kubrick sought the right moment, often at the expense of speed or budgets.
  • “He had to get what he knew was right...it was repetition that finally revealed what he ultimately understood was the gesture, the delivery.” — Robert Kolker (29:39)
  • “You could prepare and...once he looked at the monitor, he said, no, they're all wrong...Had someone go out and find new [costumes].” — Nathan Abrams (28:09)
  • On multiple takes: “You might as well do as many takes as you want. That’s the least expensive thing. Just keep doing it until it’s the way you want it.” — Recounted by Robert Kolker (29:14)

The Unmade Films: Dreams, Barriers, and Miscalculations

Napoleon

• Kubrick’s lifelong fascination with military history led him to prepare obsessively—15,000 index cards cataloguing Napoleon’s life.
• Market and timing issues doomed the project:
  • “It just wasn't the right time for another movie on Napoleon… it’s an interesting one because it shows, again, Kubrick making a tactical error.” — Nathan Abrams (30:48, 32:47)
  • “He thought this would sail right through. As Nathan said, the market wasn't there.” — Robert Kolker (33:24)

Aryan Papers

• Drawn from Kubrick’s interest in the Holocaust and based on Louis Begley's “Wartime Lies”; abandoned due to creative challenges, personal burdens, and Spielberg’s concurrent “Schindler’s List.”
  • “An audience couldn't bear to watch two movies about the Holocaust...But for the grace of God go I.” — Nathan Abrams (35:20)
  • “He became depressed at the time...there's also that sense of struggling with his own Jewishness.” — Nathan Abrams (35:20)

AI: Artificial Intelligence

• Years of collaboration and conversations with Spielberg yielded no satisfactory script or special effects solution at the time.
  • “He couldn’t get the script that he wanted...an inherent sentimentality in the story he couldn’t quite control...finding a robot Boy and...CGI was not up to the task.” — Robert Kolker (38:57)
  • Spielberg later directed the film with elements from Kubrick’s pre-production.

Kubrick at Home: The Private Person

• Family and Domestic Life
  • “He was a doting father, I imagine, a demanding father. He loved his daughters. He loved his pets...And he most certainly loved his wife.” — Robert Kolker (41:09)
  • Kubrick valued privacy, detested celebrity, and preserved a warm, generous persona off-set.
  • “Very keen to keep those sides of him separate as Kubrick the director and then when he's not directing.” — Nathan Abrams (42:33)
  • Noted gadget aficionado and master of domestic surprises: “He loved gadgets. There's a great story… he invites somebody to dinner...all this Chinese food comes in… he loved to surprise people in a non-threatening, funny way.” — Host (44:30)

Eyes Wide Shut: The Final Masterpiece and Kubrick’s Legacy

• Long Gestation and Intimacy
  • Based on Arthur Schnitzler’s “Dream Story,” the project fascinated Kubrick for decades due to its psychological depth around marriage, jealousy, and dream logic.
  • “We suggest that Kubrick was introduced to Eyes Wide Shut probably in the 50s...there's the Freudian element...Schnitzler is a contemporary of Freud.” — Nathan Abrams (45:51)
  • On tackling marriage: “The only way you meticulously research marriage is by being married for a long time. Otherwise you haven't done it properly.” — Nathan Abrams (47:27)
  • “How do you put intimate and mundane moments on the big screen in a big way but maintain their intimacy...?” — Paraphrasing of team’s insight (47:28)
• Reception and Reflection
  • Kubrick died just after previewing the final cut; the release and marketing, out of his control, were misaligned with the film’s true content.
    • “I think he would have been satisfied and he would throw the onus back on the critics and maybe the audience...The publicity was not what the film was about.” — Robert Kolker (51:49)
    • “So much of what was said about Eyes Wide Shut was said in his absence...if you wait 12 years for anything, it's never going to turn out quite as good as you’ve pictured.” — Nathan Abrams (53:24)
  • Kolker invokes Edward Said’s theory of “late style”: “The artist...did the work that he wanted to do without any constraints. I think that very much explains Eyes Wide Shut.” (54:59)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Young Kubrick
  “He even didn't start to read until a relatively late age. Once he started, he never stopped.” — Robert Kolker (05:32)

• On Directing for an Audience
  “He wanted people to go watch his movies. You know, what's the point of making a film if no one's going to watch it?” — Nathan Abrams (09:56)
  “He had a not so secret desire to make a blockbuster. He wanted to make ET...” — Robert Kolker (10:02)

• Photojournalism and the Films
  “What looks like an unplanned surprise shot is actually staged...There's not that much difference between the photographic career and the feature film career, but the difference is the feature films aren't passing themselves off as non-fiction, whereas the photography is.” — Nathan Abrams (12:23)

• On Ego and Self-Critique
  “I think he’s always trying to struggle to be better...The true egotist would be complacent.” — Nathan Abrams (18:08)

• On Perfectionism
  “You might as well do as many takes as you want. That’s the least expensive thing. Just do it again...until it’s the way you want it.” — Robert Kolker (29:14)

• On Eyes Wide Shut’s Intimacy
  “It was a dream film, in many ways, it was Kubrick's dream of a film that he dreamt about for so long. But it's also a film that is about a dream and is about dreaming. And maybe is a dream.” — Robert Kolker (48:49)

• On Kubrick’s Legacy
  “The artist...lived his work and did the work that he wanted to do without any constraints. I think that very much explains Eyes Wide Shut.” — Robert Kolker (54:59)

Key Timestamps

• Kubrick’s Childhood & Early Photography: 04:04–07:51
• Balancing Art and Commerce: 09:19–10:44
• Lessons from Early Films: 18:44–23:16
• Hollywood and British Actors: 22:22–26:15
• Working Method: Multiple Takes: 26:53–30:20
• Unproduced Projects: 30:46–40:51
• Kubrick’s Private Life: 41:09–44:30
• Eyes Wide Shut: Creative Choices: 45:46–51:09
• Legacy, Death, and Late Style: 51:38–54:59

Conclusion

Kolker and Abrams’ discussion goes well beyond the usual Kubrick mythology, providing a textured and generous portrait of the filmmaker as both meticulous craftsman and devoted family man, nuanced in his ego, collaborative in approach, and deeply aware of cinema’s artistic and commercial dimensions. Their insights into both Kubrick’s completed and unrealized projects—alongside his evolving working methods and personal character—make this episode invaluable for Kubrick fans and newcomers alike.

“Kubrick: An Odyssey” is available now from Pegasus Books.