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Robert Parish with Jake Uitti, "The Chief: The Story of the Boston Celtics’ Most Enigmatic Icon" (Triumph, 2026)
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- [00:00]
Paul Knepper
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Jake Udi
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- [00:47]
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- [02:00]
Paul Knepper
Welcome to the New Books Network. Hello and welcome back. I'm your host, Paul Knepper, and I'm excited to have a friend of the podcast Jake Udi on today. Jake is a return guest. He's on. He's back on now to discuss his new book, the Chief, the Story of the Boston Celtics Most enigmatic icon. About that he did with the great Robert Parrish. Jake, as I noticed, been on before. He's written a number. He's co authored a number of books with basketball icons Muggy Bogues, Michael Cooper, Tim Hardaway. He's got one coming out later this year with Jason Terry. And let's not Forget the great Earl Cureton. Oh, yeah, big fan. Earl was a great guy. We can't forget Earl.
- [02:48]
Jake Udi
One of my favorite episodes of your show was listening to you and Earl talk for an hour, an hour and a half.
- [02:52]
Paul Knepper
It was great. Michael Ray Richardson, another thinking of, sadly, that we've lost recently. But also, Jake is a prolific writer. He's appeared in numerous publications such as Interview magazine, Vanity Fair, American Songwriter magazine, the Washington Post, on and on. It's always a pleasure to have Jake on the show. Welcome back, my friend. Hello.
- [03:19]
Jake Udi
Thank you for having me. When. When you email, I answer. And so here we are.
- [03:24]
Paul Knepper
That's my guy.
- [03:25]
Jake Udi
Yeah.
- [03:26]
Paul Knepper
So I thought we'd start off a little different today just because you have been on a number of times and you've done, you've done a number of these books with, you know, former basketball players. So I thought it'd be fun to talk a little bit about the process. For the, for those who don't know, I mean, how do you, how does one write a book with a, you know, with a former athlete? So I, I guess, Jake, are there any. Do you start off, you know, once you decide you're going to write, you know, once you have that initial conversation, whatever, and you agree, you and the athlete agree to write the book, do you come up with, like, a set of ground rules or guidelines or what? How, how does it proceed from there?
- [04:04]
Jake Udi
Yeah, it's a really great question, and I'm, I'm glad you asked it, because when I was young, I was so blind and, and, you know, whatever the word is to process, to how, how do these things work? You know, you, you know, you're 12 years old, you're 18 years old, whatever it is, and you want to do something and you're like, all those people are great. How do I do it? And so I thank you for asking about it. So the first step that I like to do in writing a book, and maybe I know you've written a number of books and probably do the same thing or something similar, is create a table of contents. So that creates like a guideline or an outline for the, you know, one to 20 chapters or so that you want to do, and then you can sort of formulate the steps of how you want to get from one to the next, the next, the next. But in terms of the interview process, I, you know, try to start at the beginning. And that could be from a timeline standpoint, or it can just be asking the person, why do you want to write a book? What, what interests you? About this. And usually their first sort of unfiltered response kind of ends up being like the forward or the, or not a forward, but one of the introductions for the book because they're not thinking about like a polished statement, you know, like, for example, for the Robert Parrish book, he talked about wanting to be more involved with the Celtics or at least in basketball, and have a larger voice in sort of the greater conversation. And I thought that would be a great place to start. You know, everybody knows Robert Parish is a basketball icon, a four time champion Celtics legend, and hearing him talk about what he's missing, I thought, you know, it's an interesting way to start. And I didn't have any sort of grand plan for that. It's just what came out in the beginning of our conversations. And, and not coincidentally, the way that I get to know the player and this person through the writing is also how the reader gets to know them a little bit. You know, we start where we start and we end where we end. And it's the same sort of relationship that I build over the phone or over interviews or in person. It's sort of built, I hope in an underlying way with the reader as the book unfolds. So I try to make it as natural as I can. I, I, you know, have a whole pages and pages of questions written out ahead of time. And I start from where they're interested and I ask them next, you know, what's maybe biggest moment of their life or career. And then we go from, you know, born until where they are, which is, you know, more traditional. But I also write, not start to ramble here, but I also type out their responses as they're, as they talk to me. So I get a sense of their language and their rhythm sort of in my fingers. It's sort of like a stenographer, you know, it's not pristine, but I, I can read it and, but, and I get the, you know, the vibe of how they talk. Because I think an important part of these books when you co write is to do your best to capture the person's sort of speaking voice or just how they, how they communicate, you know. So Tim Hardaway book will be different than a Robert Parrish book, I hope.
- [06:50]
Paul Knepper
No, actually I, you know, I actually thought of that with the Parish book. You know, sometimes just the, you know, the, even, just the curse words he uses. Right? Yes, the, the vulgarity of it like that. But I think that's great because it's not like cleaned up, you know, quote unquote. It's. This is, this is how Robert speaks. This is Robert's story and this is how he told it. Do you like, how often do you, do you kind of like write the whole book and then show it to them? Or do you like write a chapter and show it to them and say, hey, does this sound right? And that kind of thing. How does that work?
- [07:22]
Jake Udi
Yeah, generally I write chapter by chapter and I, and I send it to the subject and also maybe, you know, their manager or whatever to review. Because with a book like this, a co written book like this, it's their book, you know, like, yes, we're creating it together and yes, I'm gel larger doing the one typing. The one doing the typing, but it's, it. I want them to be comfortable with it and I want them to have sort of final say with it. So, so I send it to them and sometimes they read it, sometimes they don't in real time, but at least it's there for their review so that you can sort of see it every step of the way. And the chapter will change and I'll, you know, you'll go back and. Because something you did in chapter seven may affect the way you write chapter two. And so, you know, you go back and, and then maybe should we share that with, with the person? But it's, I, you know, I want it to be as collaborative as possible. And you mentioned a lot of the publications I've written for. I am not the type of person to try to get, you know, try to get anyone or put anyone in the corner or have any sort of, you know, some people are great at that when it's necessary, but that's not my game. So I'm not, you know, trying to keep anything under the rug or anything with these guys. I want these books to be open and honest. But, but not. Yeah, yeah, right.
- [08:32]
Paul Knepper
And naturally, you know, I mean, sometimes things don't come out the way we intended or, or the message doesn't get across exactly as we, you know, it thought it did. It's a communication process and so you have to, you know, you want to make sure that, hey, this is how I captured this. Is this, Is this right? Is this what you meant to say, portrayed us the right way?
- [08:53]
Jake Udi
Totally. Where whereas people, you know, like you, when you wrote your Moses book, you're not doing that with him, you know, in unison because he's, he's not alive. And so you have a, a different responsibility, a different lane, a different obligation or whatever it is, you know, you want it to Be open and honest. You wanted to, but you don't. You're not working with another person, you know, you know, it's a different process. Yeah. Yeah. And both are great. Yeah.
- [09:17]
Paul Knepper
Are there, have you had any instances with, with Chief or, you know, any, any of the subjects you worked with where you really wanted to, I don't know, maybe explore a certain issue or, or go into greater depth about something and, and they were like, no, I don't want to go there.
- [09:33]
Jake Udi
Not that I can think of. And I'm not trying to cut back. In fact, you know, the book that came out before the cheap book was the Tim Hardaway book. And there was a lot of very personal details in there about growing up, you know, gang stuff, his father's alcoholism, some physical abuse that he was actually worried to share. He, you know, he talked about doing a book early, early in his life and when we, he and I talked about it, that was something he was nervous about, about sharing that side of his life and parts of his parents lives which aren't, you know, in great light necessarily. But we got through it and we wrote it down and I shared it with him and he didn't say no, and his parents didn't say no. So, you know, it can be hard to think about ahead of time and, but when you see it on the page, maybe it makes more sense or, and getting it out is good. So. No, so there, you know, a long way of saying no to your question. We, I haven't really come across something like that. And even in the Chief book, he talks about, you know, it was stuff with his first wife which, you know, has been blown up from what I can tell, into, you know, giant rumors of severe domestic abuse. And it wasn't that way, from how I understand it, how he explained it and people I talked to and, and he didn't shy away from that and, but we also didn't need to devote entire chapter to it either. So usually, usually these guys, if you sort of explain why it's necessary or just ask in a human way, it comes across and they're open about it.
- [11:05]
Paul Knepper
Yeah.
- [11:05]
Jake Udi
If they're going to do a book. You know, a lot of times people say no to a book because they
- [11:08]
Paul Knepper
don't want to get into it. Right, right.
- [11:10]
Jake Udi
You know, I, I, so once they say yes, they're sort of open.
- [11:14]
Paul Knepper
I think this may be a weird question. I don't know, I don't even know if you could even really answer it, but have you've done this with a number of athletes now, have you liked all of them? Is there any, is there, is there anywhere you're done. It's, it's, it's a weird, it's a, it's a weird dynamic, right, Because I, I, so, for example, I, I, in another life, I was a lawyer for a number of years, and for, for a handful of years, I, I did criminal defense work. And people, that was a natural question, like, how do you, you know, how do you represent these people or do you like them? And there's something about the nature of the relationship that lent itself to me liking them and that they, they, they, I was on their side. I was representing them. They wanted to endear themselves to me, you know, and so I could look at them and be like, yes, you know, some of them, they may have done heinous things, but y. Really nice to me, you know, So I, this isn't quite the same, but naturally they're going to want you to like them. You're working with them, you're telling, you, you're telling their story. They're going to put their most positive face forward when dealing with you. And, But I don't know, I still, it's still possible you may not like them. And does it matter if you don't like them?
- [12:24]
Jake Udi
It's a really interesting question and a really interesting dynamic because you were deeply involved in this, this person's life for months. You know, we, I'm working with whoever, Earl Curtain, I think we worked on that book for over a year, you know, and we talked weekly, if not daily, both for the book, and ended up being, just being close friends. You know, he's the probably the person that I became closest with throughout one of these processes. And it was really sad when he passed away. I don't know. It's. Is it, you know, because there's so many factors, right? Like, because you want to. This is also my career, you know, so if I were to do a book with Shaq and let's say he was a jerk, which is not who he is, but I would probably still do it at some point because it's an important book. If we got in the middle of it and there were some difficult stories like that would. I would still work on it if he was, if the subject, he or she was like, jake, you suck, or these chapters are awful, or how could you do this? That's when it would, you know, because it becomes personal or if it stunts the progress. I don't think I could handle that.
- [13:28]
Paul Knepper
Right.
- [13:28]
Jake Udi
Or would it would really deflate My energy and you know, probably would have signed a contract and had to finish it, but it would really deflate my energy. But you try to get a sense to these guys ahead of time and in the pre calls and you know, and I've also, you know, I'm a huge basketball fan. I've been following the stuff for a while, so you get a sense of maybe who's, who's, you know, gonna work well with you or not. But there have been some times where it's, I'm in more in the middle of the road and I'm like, okay, yeah, this is fine. You know, I there sometimes it's better than others, but mo. But it's never been bad. And I, I and this is, speaks to the larger question of maybe my interest in basketball. And of course there's, there's rotten apples or bad whatever in NBA, but there's something about the league that especially it stars that engenders some sort of good feelings, good vibes, you know, like LeBron James is a billionaire and like, I'm sure people have their problems with him, but like he seems like a fine good dude, you know, like he's not, he's not like in Trump's cabinet, you know, like these evil vampire people, you know, like, I don't know, like Steph Curry seems like an awesome guy. He may disagree with whatever, but he seems like an awesome guy. And Robert Ory to pluck a name out of the, out of the ether, you know, like he seems like a good dude. And so I think chances are if a person has been this successful and been in front of media for so long, the chances are they're going to be a fine, upstanding citizen.
- [14:52]
Paul Knepper
Yeah, I would say to expand on that, you know, everybody you've done or you know, Chief Jet, Michael Cooper, Hardway, these guys have all had long, productive careers. There's a reason that Chief is in the NBA for 21 years. There's certain things that are necessary. One is a, is a work ethic. Right. Which I, yeah, all agrees. I'll call it. Two is you have to be to, you know, a pretty good teammate, especially who work with people that long, you know. You know, I mean there's a reason that the, the Hornets and the Bulls wanted Parish at the tail end of his career. Wasn't for his skills anymore. Right. It was, it was because this guy, he's a good locker room presence. So there's, there's certain, you know, I mean the only questionable one that you've done that I could think of in, in that regard would, would be Michael Ray in that, you know, his career didn't have that, you know, longevity and happy ending and all that. But by all accounts, Michael Ray was a very well liked guy as well.
- [15:55]
Jake Udi
Great human being.
- [15:56]
Paul Knepper
Yeah, he had his, he had his demons, but he wasn't, he wasn't a bad guy. But I. Right. Most of the guys you've done are guys who've had, you know, again, Earl curated, wasn't, wasn't a superstar by any means, but he was, everybody liked Earl curated. You know, that's why, that's why he was in a league, you know, because it wasn't just his skill, it was what he, everything he brought to the table.
- [16:15]
Jake Udi
And there's, and there's some amount of responsibility on my lap too where, you know, I can't imagine what it's to be like one of these guys, especially now, like you must wake up and a thousand people are asking you for things every single day, you know, so it, there's a big risk and there's a big, you know, wall or hurdle for someone like me coming into someone like their lives, you know, and so, so often you have to be recommended or there's another pathway to get there. Because I could end up on this call and be like, what was it like to sleep with so many women? Or what was it, you know, who did you get high with? And it's like, that's not what I'm interested in and that's personal and that's not something they would want to put in their book unless they wanted to. And they volunteered that stuff and that's always interesting, I guess. But I was a responsibility on me as the media person and as the writer to be a reasonable human being, you know, and so I have to do that too. And I'm sure there are plenty of people who aren't interested in that, you know, or aren't willing. And if I was again to bring up maybe Steph Curry, you know, you, I'd have to be very guarded on that stuff. And some guys are more comfortable that than I am. I'm sure if I was a billionaire famous, I would, I don't know, I don't know who I would trust. That's got to be really difficult, you know, and so there's, it's a two way street is what I'm trying to say.
- [17:31]
Paul Knepper
Yeah, absolutely. Well, all right, let's, let's move on to the chief because he is, he is your current project. Yes. Well, finished project, but Kurt, that's what you're promoting. That's what you're on here. We're here to talk Chief. You know, the, the, the subtitle of the book is. Is the Story of the Boston Celtics Most Enigmatic Icon. And I thought that was quite appropriate. And as a, you know, a huge, huge Bashmol fan myself, I was excited for this book because Chief is. Because I didn't know a damn thing about the Chief.
- [18:03]
Jake Udi
Yeah.
- [18:03]
Paul Knepper
And, and he's, you know, top 50 player all time. He made that team, this up 75. I mean, you know, he was, He's. He played for a storied franchise. He played for perhaps the greatest single season team of all time, and yet he's, he is relatively unknown. So I guess my first question would be, what did. What did. What. What is the Chief life? What is Robert Parish like?
- [18:27]
Jake Udi
Who's awesome, man? It's, it's. I didn't grow up in Boston. I wasn't a Celtics fan growing up. My brother was, but I wasn't. I knew Robert Parrish from trading cards and from, you know, everybody sees the same highlight videos of the Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Perry, you know, the 80s and, and Lakers, Celtics and all that stuff. So I obviously was aware of him and knew of him, and he's like, you said all these accolades and stuff, but I didn't know much about him. And I ended up coming across him to interview him for an article for the Guardian about, I think, what it was like to be a seven footer or something like that. And I was like, immediately struck by how personable and charismatic and funny this guy was. Like, I've. I've done seven memoirs with NBA players. Roberts, you know, this isn't the judgment anybody else, but it was the easiest one. It was the most fluid. He. He was coherent, cogent, funny. You know, he. It just flowed and it was shocking a little bit. You know, you hear, you hear these stories, this sort of curmudgeonly gruff guy, and you're kind of waiting for it to come out and, you know, nobody's perfect. Maybe there were a couple of things here and there, but 90x percent, he's just an amazing conversationalist and I don't want to jump ahead too much, but you maybe you've seen some of the videos on Twitter and stuff recently where he's, as Boston Gardner doing all these interviews, and people are realizing how gregarious and funny he is. So the process was great. And it was a little shocking. It hadn't happened for him earlier.
- [20:00]
Paul Knepper
Yeah. And like, you know, he. You know, as he, you know, says himself in the book, he. He's clearly an introvert. He calls himself an introvert, and he didn't. He obviously didn't seek the spotlight, you know. Yeah. During his career, do you get the sense that. Does he feel like he was overlooked during his career that he's not talked about enough? You know, when people talk about the. The 80s Celtics teams and. And Celtics history in general, I don't
- [20:30]
Jake Udi
get the sense that he has maybe like, a chip on his shoulder in that way or a grudge in that way. I think he, you know, he would acknowledge. And there's a great story in the book. I don't want to give too much away about it, but Red Auerbach is talking to him, Larry Bird and Mikhail, and it's a little bit like, you know, the LeBron James Heat teams with Chris Bosh. Like, someone's got a sacrifice here, and Chief was willing to do that. And so I think he know, you know, what comes with that is a few less media headlines. That comes with that is maybe a few less dollars, a few less stats. So I. I don't think he has a chip on his shoulder about not being in the limelight enough over the years, because he sort of chose it. And then, you know, he added on top of that, a little bit of kind of being at arm's length with people for a lot of his life and after he left the NBA. And so I think that was the second layer of the cake that maybe made him embrace his more introverted lifestyle. You know, I don't think people were reaching out as much as maybe they should have or could have, because I think he kind of taught them to not do that over the years, but. And now. Now that the book is out, which is what's so, so great about releasing books like this, the whole world is opening up to it. It's like the iceberg is melting, you know, and he's getting interviews everywhere, his Twitter accounts blowing up much like yours, and, you know, he's being honored at the games and stuff. It's just really great to see the whole world kind of embrace him. And that's what I love about doing books like this. You know, it just changes things for people.
- [22:09]
Paul Knepper
Yeah, I thought so, too. I mean, I. You know, it started months ago. I don't remember what. What it was, but somehow it came out of my radar that Robert Parish is on Twitter. I'm like, what? The chief is on Twitter? No way. So I Like, instant follow, you know, I. What he has to say, and he's been great on there. I mean, he's really showing his personality and. And I thought the same thing. I, I'd wanted to ask you about that. I mean, he. He's. I, I've seen the clips, you know, on whatever social media, the news, whatever it is of him back at Boston Garden, and. Yeah. And, you know, he's out there and he. He's talking about the, the book signings he's doing, and. Yeah, he seems to be really enjoying this now.
- [22:47]
Jake Udi
Yes.
- [22:48]
Paul Knepper
Would you get access?
- [22:49]
Jake Udi
Oh, yeah, yeah. And I, I'm like the cautious kind of grandson where I'm like, don't, like. I hope it's not too much. I hope this is. And. But it's. From what I can tell that he seems to love it. You know, who wouldn't? People lining up wherever he goes. I saw one video, I wasn't there for it, but a line around the block, literally out of. Out a bookstore line around the block to see him. It's storybook stuff, you know, and I. There's so many people who have so many fond memories because of him. And Larry was not out there a ton, but you see Larry every once in a While. And Kevin McHale is a coach, you know, here, GM there, and he's around or doing stuff on TNT or something, and Chief is not. Or at least he hasn't been. And I really hope that people realize just how charismatic and gregarious and how willing he is to say stuff. You know, he's not someone who holds back. And he's. As LeBron James actually recently noted, he's one of the few older players to give props to the current generation, you know, and the current players, like LeBron just passed chief for games played and. And a couple other things, I think. And Chief went right to Twitter, you know, he's the one typing it out and said, Congratulations to LeBron. Records are meant to be broken. Greatness is great, you know, and. And I don't know if you saw, but LeBron James was asked about it in a media session in. In la, and he dropped Chief's name and said he was amazing and saw what he was saying about him. So, I don't know. It's all.
- [24:14]
Paul Knepper
This is incredible to me.
- [24:15]
Jake Udi
Like, it's kind of dumbfounding and it's. It's like a volcano or a geyser or whatever metaphor that has been pent up for 30, 40 years. And now everybody's kind of remembering and Chief is living up to it and it's great. It's just great.
- [24:28]
Paul Knepper
It is great. You know, it's interesting. It in the introduction in my book about Moses, I, I talk, there's some similarity there. And then both of them are kind of introverted and didn't deal with the media much. And, and you know, and I think nobody really got to know their real personalities. The public didn't. And I said, you know, I said in the book, well, I felt compelled in my introduction to talk about why nobody's ever written a book about Moses before, why he's not talked about more among the all time greats. And there was a number of reasons I felt. And one of the things I know in the book was because he died at the age of 60. He never got to have that kind of, never got to be that like beloved elder statesman. You know, nobody was more standoffish than Kareem, but even Kareem now is kind of like revered and loved and yes, seen anywhere in public is shown a lot of love. He never got that. And so I've kind of, maybe even part of me, because of my Moses experience has really enjoyed seeing, seeing Chief kind of out there front and center and getting his flowers while he's still here and having the really.
- [25:36]
Jake Udi
Yeah, there was that great. I don't know if you saw yesterday was on Twitter going around Bill Wennington, the center for the Bulls, talking about like, we're all getting older, man. Like, you know, Pippen and MJ are beefing and he's like, this is what happened with Shaq and Kobe. Like I, you know, we're all getting older. And this is so the idea of like hiding under a rock, like why, like, you know, especially if people are going to line up to see. I mean, you know, if you don't, if you don't care about people and don't want that, so that's fine. But if you do, there's no reason to hide your light under a rock. Like come out. You know, the NBA's never been more popular. Like especially the Celtics legend or like Moses, sadly he passed away. But you know, the cell, the 76ers, I'm sure would have honored him at the, you know, the 83 anniversary team or whatever. And these guys, it's almost like they, you know, they know, but they don't know this. All the people that they've affected, you know, it's like almost impossible to imagine. But like millions and millions of people have memories, thank, you know, positive memories thanks to Moses Malone. Robert Parrish or whomever. And, and that, that's why, another reason why I like to do these books, I, I like to approach them with gratitude. You know, I, I was a kid and was attracted to the NBA for a lot of the same reasons a lot of other people do. These guys are superheroes. These guys are great, you know, basketball cards, jerseys, Kenning the Bee, whoever. And so I have gratitude for that, you know, and there's a lot of negative media members who want to take bites out of these guys. And that's just not me, you know, I'd rather bolster and work together. And so I'm all about the, the, the re honoring of people. You know, there's the Rewatchables podcast. Let's do the re Honoring podcast.
- [27:13]
Paul Knepper
Yeah, I love it. I, you know, I join here about. First of all, I like to read about Centenary College because, yeah, you know, that's like, it's like this random trivia thing. Where did Robert Parish go to college? And nobody's ever heard of it, so that was fun to learn. And I like reading about the Golden State years too, because it's kind of like, I think in most people's minds, it's like there was no NBA career before the Celtics. I mean, everybody knows about the big trade that got hidden Mikhail there. But there were these Golden State years. And who doesn't get tired of hearing about what an asshole Rick Barry is, right? I mean.
- [27:50]
Jake Udi
Oh, yeah. I actually had to rein that in a little bit in the editing process. Rick. Rick seems like a very accomplished, fine person, but there's a lot of stories about him. But yeah, you know, it's interesting. Robert Parrish played with Rick Barry before Larry Bird, you know, and I don't know if you can hear my child crying outside the door. Her mom is with her, but. And to go from one to the other. And then also Jordan sort of at the end and these, these eras, these superstars in these various eras. And the NBA is a team game. You know, Robert Parrish is a team player, but you have to play as a team. And Rick Barry wasn't maybe that guy, you know. And so we kind of had the, the Sonny Corleone before he had the Michael Corleone situation, you know. And so I think that was a really, you know, eye opening and educational. It's, it's sort of sad that those Warrior teams didn't work out. You know, they won the ring, the championship in 75, and then it kind of dismantled everything, including sending Robert to Boston.
- [28:50]
Paul Knepper
Yeah, but, yeah, well, you know, I. Look, this is, it's a lot of what makes this book great, frankly, is that, is that Robert didn't pull punches, is that. Yeah, he, he comes across as very human, you know, very humid. He's not, he's not an athlete. Just trying to, you know, rehash his exploits and he's. These are my faults. These are the mistakes I made, whether it be, you know, the woman he married or, or other things along the way. And you know, and, and look, this guy was an asshole and blah, blah, blah. And it made it fun even on a positive too. I loved, I loved hearing about when he talked about when he was traded to the Celtics. And I think he said he went on, bought a fifth of whiskey and just dragged it, drank all day because he was so freaking happy.
- [29:32]
Jake Udi
Yeah, that's right.
- [29:33]
Paul Knepper
Yeah.
- [29:34]
Jake Udi
And then he was in the worst shape of his life when training camp started. But that's all right. Yeah, all that stuff is great. I, you know, the stuff with the Charlotte Hornets I thought was really interesting and I felt kind of bad being involved with that because I love Mugsy Bogue so much, but to know how bad that team got and, and then the stuff with the Bulls was amazing. And. Yeah, yeah, Robert, Robert is. He's one of those guys, you know, it's. It's because you don't hear about him enough or you haven't heard about him enough, you forget. You know, I sort of forgot. He's a like a nine time allstar, four time champion, all 50 team, all 75. Like he's one of the dudes, you know, like. And you sort of forget if these, if like in a way his. The book wasn't at all about image maintenance, you know, and he maintains it's
- [30:20]
Paul Knepper
not that, but yet he still comes across very favorably.
- [30:23]
Jake Udi
Yes. And he could have done a little bit more maintenance leading up to it, which I think, you know, makes this release kind of special on. Because of him, you know, because. Because it's sort of. He's been a Jedi for so long and now he's, you know, back and back and back on the starship.
- [30:41]
Paul Knepper
I'm loving the movie references.
- [30:42]
Jake Udi
Yeah.
- [30:45]
Paul Knepper
You know, I found myself wondering if he, let's say, you know, in another, another universe, Chief doesn't get traded to Boston and let's say he plays out his career in Golden State. Is he still a Hall of Famer?
- [30:56]
Jake Udi
It's a really interesting question and it speaks to the idea of fit, you know, to in the NBA. Like, I don't know you know, it didn't sound like it's. You know, I think he says in the book that he was thinking about quitting actually, because it just. It didn't. It wasn't working. It was. I think he was sort of running through the motions and he wants to win. He was very successful at his college. Small college, but very successful there. Successful in high school. And he's a winner, which is why he was willing to sacrifice when the rubber hit the road, you know, with the big three, and be the third option. So I don't know. You know, my guess is he would have found himself elsewhere. Maybe he demands a trade in the early. Maybe he made because, you know, I guess the Lakers have Kareem, but maybe he makes it to Denver or somewhere else that's sort of successful. Maybe New York. Maybe he plays with Sugar. Wouldn't that be interesting in the early 80s. But my guess is he finds somewhere, you know, like fate has a way. And you know, thankfully he got to Boston.
- [31:52]
Paul Knepper
Yeah. And of course that f. His first season there they won. They won the champion. Red. Red Auerbach was a wizard and. And pulled off that masterful deal to get him and Mal. And they won the championship that first year.
- [32:05]
Jake Udi
Is it the best trade ever? The Luke Luca is. Luca's the weirdest and maybe the worst from Matt's. From Dallas's side. But for the best trade ever, it could be. Yeah. Getting those two guys.
- [32:16]
Paul Knepper
The Lakers trading for Kareem, I think was a. They give up some pieces but, you know, nothing huge. And yeah, that worked. That worked out pretty well for them. But that is definitely up there.
- [32:29]
Jake Udi
You know, I think it was the best trade ever because it brought two guys in.
- [32:33]
Paul Knepper
Yeah. Like two top 75 multi players. Yeah. I mean that's crazy.
- [32:37]
Jake Udi
Yeah.
- [32:39]
Paul Knepper
I just ed. You know, and putting that and. And you know, a couple years before that Auerbach drafted Bird when he still. And when he said what year left of school, which was, yeah, a genius move. And yeah, he was just. He was ahead. Ahead of the game.
- [32:52]
Jake Udi
Yeah.
- [32:54]
Paul Knepper
I wanted to ask you about. About chief relationship with Burton and Mikael because it, you know, you never got the set. I never got the sense in years, you know, prior reading this book that they were close. And after reading this book, there certainly doesn't appear to be any animosity. But you know, there were guys he was closer to, notably Neil Walton. And we'll get into that. But how was his relationship and is his relationship with Burton? Mikhail.
- [33:23]
Jake Udi
His relationship with Mikhail seems strong. Mikhail did one of the forwards for the book. And when I talked to Mikhail, as we were hashing that out, you know, he had a lot of great things to say. You know, you never know.
- [33:33]
Paul Knepper
Really.
- [33:34]
Jake Udi
Really, really. But it seems like they're good. He's got great relationship with Cedric Maxwell and other folks on the team. Larry's an interesting one because Larry himself is seemingly introverted and kind of off the grid, so they don't interact a ton. You know, Larry was nice enough to give a quote for the book about Robert being an amazing teammate. You know, speaking to his sacrificing in that meeting, I. I alluded to. But there was also some tough feelings between the two, and I think especially on Robert's side during some contract negotiation. And that was touched on a little bit in the documentary Celtic City too, where Robert, or, sorry, Robert, was trying to get his money at some point in the late 80s, and Bird said something along the lines of, you know, if he doesn't want to be here, that's fine, we'll win without him, or something like that. And that's not what you say to Robert Paris. That's not what Robert Parish wants to hear. You know, he's, you know, defended Bird literally, you know, been his. The backbone of the defense, and now you're kind of on him. So I. And. And Robert is the type of person to maybe hold a grudge for a while and maybe a little too long, you know, not my place to judge. So I think that has lingered, you know, And. And. And maybe that was also the root of some tension within the Celtics organization as well. And. But thankfully, bygones are bygones and seems like some. Mostly water under the bridge. And in fact, when we went to Boston, the Boston Garden, the owners of the current owners of the Celtics, like, ran to Robert Parish and shook his hand and wanted him as much in the fold as he wanted to be. So the. Thankfully, with time, that stuff does heal. But, you know, I don't know if they're going to each other's birthday parties, Larry and Robert, but, you know, I think they're. I think it's fine.
- [35:16]
Paul Knepper
Yeah, there was. I'm just thinking of this, actually. I don't know when, you know, 10 years ago, maybe Robert was very critical of. Of Larry and Kevin publicly that he was. He was annoyed that, you know, he's like, both of these guys basically run teams, and I want to eat and I want to coach, I want to be involved in the team, and. No. And neither of them have done anything for me. Right. He didn't he definitely took a softer tone with that in the book, but there seemed to be some.
- [35:47]
Jake Udi
Yeah, and I was surprised that he didn't dig into that a little bit more when we talked. It didn't seem that big of a deal. I would have, we would have talked about that more in the book if, you know, and I pressed him a little bit on it. So maybe he either got over it or maybe that quote was blown out of proportion, I don't know. And you know, and it's a little bit of a two way street, you know, I don't think Robert was making the calls either. You know, maybe he, maybe, you know, he certainly deserved attention. And I'm, you know, he's one of the greatest, as we've said many times, but sometimes you have to step out your front door and wave the neighbor too, you know, so I, I think that it was a little bit of an impasse in both directions and, and hopefully that stuff is, is, has thawed now. You know, hopefully this is the demarcation point where it's. Now the door is open and you know, the block party is on.
- [36:38]
Paul Knepper
And look, you know, I, you know, going back to what you said about these guys are in the spotlight and so much is asked of them and there's so much social media and I don't know, man, I've. There been times where I've just had a shitty day and I totally like. And somebody asked me and, and maybe I've, you know, annoyed at my wife about something and I said, yeah, Larry Bird's an, you know, right. Like, but you know, that and then the next day. But like, yeah, Larry, you know, he's not so he's got a lot going on and you know, blah, blah. And so I.
- [37:09]
Jake Udi
Exactly.
- [37:09]
Paul Knepper
And now if you do it repeatedly over and over again over a period of time, that's one thing. But one, taking one quote from one day, you know, it's.
- [37:18]
Jake Udi
Who knows? That's why whenever I hear these stories about celebrities, it's like person X is a jerk. It's like maybe they were a jerk then. And this isn't the only time the person telling that story has ever met them. So they extrapolate and they want to feel cool because then they have a sort of, oh yeah, Lady Gaga was an like, you know, I don't know, maybe that one day or however you interpreted it or whatever.
- [37:38]
Paul Knepper
But yeah, maybe she, maybe she just got back from visiting her mother in the hospital who's kind of battling cancer. You know, like you don't know about or something. Yeah. At Heldon's. Yeah.
- [37:48]
Jake Udi
And which. And this leads to a larger conversation about, you know, social media and politics and everything where we're always swiping right on everybody and we should have more patience.
- [37:56]
Paul Knepper
Yeah, absolutely. My favorite part of the book, hands down, my favorite thing in the book is. Is about Robert's friend William.
- [38:05]
Jake Udi
Yeah.
- [38:06]
Paul Knepper
And down to the fact that he calls him William because, I mean, no, I never heard anyone else say that. But I mean, who, you know, who doesn't love Bill Walton? Such a just beloved figure in the history of the game and, and, but the, the warmth and the love that. That just emanated from the pages, clearly a two way street there between them was. Was beautiful. It was beautiful.
- [38:31]
Jake Udi
Yeah.
- [38:31]
Paul Knepper
I wonder if you could just talk a little bit about their relationship.
- [38:34]
Jake Udi
It's so interesting because we've talked about so far like these grudges or this sort of curmudgeonly behavior or like, you know, you, you slap me and I hate you forever. William. Bill Walton did the exact opposite when he was brought to Boston. He sought out Robert to say, you are the man. I am your backup. You know, any opportunity for there to be a grudge or to feel slighted or to feel, you know, a sort of negative competition, he snuffed it out immediately. William did. And so I. From there he could do no wrong. In a way, you know, I think he really endeared himself and engendered himself to Robert, say I am your backup. You know, I've had, I'm a great player, or I was a great player. I've had these years and years of injuries. I. I'm so happy to be here on this team right now after being in the Clippers and having my legs, you know, broken for, you know, forever. Here we are. And I'm not trying to take your spot. And that was the best thing he could have done. And from. They were like the closest friends. Bill Walton wrote something really, really nice about Robert Parrish when Robert, I think, was either the 50th anniversary team or inducted in the hall of Fame. And yeah, they were just like, it could have been like a buddy cop movie or like, you know, a Perfect Strangers TV sitcom, You know, just the two of them. It was beautiful. And that's why I wanted to end the book with the epilogue about that story of them going to the Grateful
- [39:54]
Paul Knepper
Dead show with Larry. It was a shaking his butt. Yeah, yeah, it is a great buddy cop because, see, on the surface, they're seemingly so different. Right. You Know, Bill is. Bill is like the la. LA hippie guy and. Or San Diego hip, whatever. California.
- [40:10]
Jake Udi
Gary.
- [40:11]
Paul Knepper
Yeah. Gregarious.
- [40:12]
Jake Udi
Stop talking.
- [40:13]
Paul Knepper
Yeah, White. You know, he went to early. Went to ucla, the ultimate blue blood program, Paris with the center, you know, local centenary. It's just very. But yeah, so I loved. I loved everything about that. I have to ask. We can't ask about, you know, you can't talk about the 80s Celtics without talking about the 80s Lakers. So how did. Well, how did the chief feel about that rivalry and. And the fakers, as he called them?
- [40:38]
Jake Udi
Yeah, you know, in one sense, he takes part of the. The rivalry and, and the back and forth and the, The. The heated hatred. But he's not an excuse maker either. You know, he. In the later years, he talked about the Lakers having more firepower, I think, you know, when they brought in Michael Thompson and maybe A.C. green and people in the late. In the late 80s that helped the Lakers get for ring four and five in the back to back in 87 and 88. But the Celtics had Len Bias die, you know, and years later, Reggie Lewis die. So Robert's not trying to cover up history or trying to, you know, reshape a legacy. He's honest about that. They had a little bit more juice than the Celtics did in, especially in the end. But he also will call him the fakers and call them a little soft and all that stuff, you know, to. To keep that going. But Kareem is obviously his. His hardest matchup in his career. He'll say. And Moses was number two. So, you know, it's.
- [41:34]
Paul Knepper
It's.
- [41:35]
Jake Udi
It's great hearing those guys and doing a book with Michael Cooper right before that. You know, it's like, it's, you know, I'm like in two camps of the war, and I'm going back and forth taking notes between these guys. But they'll do each other's podcasts and they'll, you know, they'll. There's a lot of good blood, but the bad blood.
- [41:51]
Paul Knepper
Yeah, maybe. He may not do Billy Beer's podcast, though, I'm guessing. No, that. No.
- [41:56]
Jake Udi
I wish Bill Ambeer had a podcast.
- [41:57]
Paul Knepper
Yeah.
- [41:58]
Jake Udi
All right. Yeah. He's another guy just off the grid, like Bill Lambert. Let's do a book like Where Are you?
- [42:04]
Paul Knepper
Right. Yeah, that would be a hell of a book. Yeah.
- [42:07]
Jake Udi
And he's got the WNBA stuff, too. He's won three or four championships as a coach in the wnba.
- [42:12]
Paul Knepper
Yeah. Yeah.
- [42:13]
Jake Udi
Bill.
- [42:14]
Paul Knepper
Amber, I want to go back to Charlotte. I. I got. I have to Ask you. This is the never ending. And this is. So first of all, that stuff is great. And I knew some about, you know, that certainly the l, the LJ Alonzo Morty feud was, was very famous. And, and that's what I want to ask you about. Yeah. Because. And you did. I, I interviewed. So the, the, the, the, the rumors. It was, you know, the, the kind of the story, the go to story is, you know that the, the PC story is they argued over who was the man there. Right. Who was the man. And I think there was probably something legitimate to that. There was money involved and they were both the number one pick or Zo is number two. But I think there was a legitimate who's the man thing. But something more went on and the rumor has always been that. That it was a woman. And years ago, I, I interviewed Tim Hardaway for my first book and I said, tim, what went on between. I asked him and I, I, I think I said, do you know? He goes, yeah, I know.
- [43:12]
Jake Udi
Yeah.
- [43:12]
Paul Knepper
You want to tell him? I'm not telling. So there's no doubt it was more than just who was the man. Does, did the chief have any insight on that? Does anybody.
- [43:23]
Jake Udi
Anyone will tell?
- [43:25]
Paul Knepper
I tried so hard to get to the bottom of this and Hardwood was the only one. Harder was the only one let on that he's like, yeah, there was. There was.
- [43:33]
Jake Udi
It makes me think like a family member was somehow involved too. I certainly don't know and I don't want to. Well, I just speculated, but I shouldn't speculate, but because all these guys are like, I know what it was and I'm not telling.
- [43:46]
Paul Knepper
Yeah.
- [43:46]
Jake Udi
With. That's very specific. And that sounds very salacious. You know, it sounds like a Delonte west situation when he was in Cleveland. But I don't know. I really don't. I wish I did. I'd probably let it slip if I knew.
- [44:00]
Paul Knepper
I see secrets maybe about five years ago. And then of course, LJ and Zoe got into the big fight. Yeah. They're just throwing ridiculous haymakers that didn't come close to connecting, but thank God. Yeah. I mean, those two guys could do some damage. But I did, see, I don't know. I want to say maybe like five years ago there was video of them. They ran into each other and maybe that Madison Square Garden. And they dapped it up and like. Yeah. And talked for a few minutes. And so I was happy to see that, I guess. But yeah, but I still, that's. I don't. Just because I dove into that Somewhat. I was like, this guy. Somebody's got to give it up. Somebody's got to know it. But not.
- [44:36]
Jake Udi
Jim Hardaway was the closest. I thought that he would tell me.
- [44:39]
Paul Knepper
He would tell me. That was the same with that. And obviously, tremendous respect for that. Like, I respect you. Like, you don't want to. You know, these heads. Your teammate, that's your guy. Yeah. And then Chief, you know, I guess he had two years in Charlotte, right? Yeah, two years in Charlotte. And then he. He finished up his career with. With the. I mean, what. What a story. Just that alone, you could argue that the. The 86 Celtics and the 97 Bulls are the two greatest teams of all time. I mean, there's certainly. There's certainly like, two of the top five. You know, there are a few. You can. Maybe the. Whatever was. The 16 warriors and there, you know, the. I don't know, the 72 Lakers. There are a few other teams you could put in there, but they're right. Right up there. They're in the conversation. Yeah, yeah. And he. He ends. He ends his career with that team. What was that like?
- [45:29]
Jake Udi
Amazing. And he. He could have stuck on longer if he wanted to, but I think he wanted to retire. But they loved him. You know, it's like, you know, it's. What would it be like? Like, the Alabama Shakes bringing in, like, some guitar, you know, Prince. Right. It's like Prince is winding down his career. He's just gonna be playing a few leads for us and a little backup rhythm. Like, oh, my God. You know, you're on the road with Prince and the stories and. And Robert, even though his skills were, you know, diminished, he was still in good shape and still 7ft tall and still strong, but he wouldn't take any crap from Jordan, you know, and I think that. I think that helped. Um, and I think, you know, when you're a team like that, that's one of the interesting things I learned about doing these books, how to keep it fresh. You know, it's like, oh, you have Michael Jordan. Of course you're going to win three in a row, but you had to bring in different guys. You know, you had to bring in a Robert Parrish here and there. You had to bring, you know, whoever. Or with the Lakers, Michael. Bring in Michael Thompson in 87 and. And the Celtics, you know, bringing in Bill Walton in 86. You got to kind of keep it fresh. And so I, you know, he was that guy for the. The 97 Bulls team. And it was. It was like a perfect retirement tour, especially Coming off the Hornets, which he
- [46:39]
Paul Knepper
did not enjoy at all.
- [46:41]
Jake Udi
But it was this nice like symmetry. You know, he got to see the, the next big three taking it over. Right. Rodman, Pippen and Jordan and just like him, Mikhail and Bird had and you know, it was just, it was a perfect bow.
- [46:55]
Paul Knepper
Yeah.
- [46:56]
Jake Udi
I'm actually surprised he didn't stay on another year.
- [46:57]
Paul Knepper
But yeah, it's funny because I the again perception and maybe some other perception of Chief in general, but it was the story that comes out of. The only story from Chief's time with the Bulls is that basically he told Michael a. Off. Yeah, that's the, and, and even the, the, you know, he, he tells that here. The tone of that in the book is completely contrary to the way it was reported. It was reported like Michael was an asshole and, and Harris was kind of an asshole back. And I walked. I had the impression that they didn't like each other.
- [47:28]
Jake Udi
Right.
- [47:28]
Paul Knepper
That.
- [47:28]
Jake Udi
But if I'm saying though, like these media people, they, they take the, and even though it's soapbox, but they take the information and then they use it to their advantage as opposed to presenting it honestly. And it's a, it's a subtle difference.
- [47:42]
Paul Knepper
No. And that became the narrative that became. So I was very, it was one thing in the whole book that surprised me. That was it. I was like, oh, that was a positive experience for him. I thought it was like. I, I, if you would ask me, I would have said he hated playing with Michael Jordan and that was like a lost season.
- [47:57]
Jake Udi
But yeah, no, yeah, right. He's the complete opposite than that. Yeah, yeah.
- [48:00]
Paul Knepper
No, and, and, and Michael, and Michael, I think Michael generally respecting people who talk.
- [48:06]
Jake Udi
Yes, yes. And especially I mean the Celtics used to beat their ass, right? And you know, as Chief has three and then he got his fourth ring with them. Like that's no slouch, you know, like you're not.
- [48:16]
Paul Knepper
Fuck you, man. I'm a top 75 all time play.
- [48:18]
Jake Udi
Yeah, yeah.
- [48:19]
Paul Knepper
Not. We're not doing that some. I'm not Brad Sellers, you know, I'm not some screw up coming in here. You could just, you know, and, and
- [48:27]
Jake Udi
you, we forget, you know, the, the depth of competition on the basketball court, including the, even the practice court and the what it takes to rise to the top. Like you're not shy, you know, you're not, you're not keeping your mouth shut. You know, you're not backing down if, if you need to, if you need. So it's in these guys DNA. You know, it may not be in My DNA, but it's in these guys DNA. And to survive and to get to the ranks of an athletic competition like that, you have to have a puffed out chest. I, I think at least at times or know how to use it, you know, and Robert certainly did. It was awesome.
- [49:01]
Paul Knepper
I want to, I want to ask you about the weed. Robert loves, he loves the weed, right? I mean he loves, he loves his bud and he's open about that and good for him. Did he smoke a lot? Like during, during his career, during the season? Was that.
- [49:15]
Jake Udi
I think so. I think some. And in the off season two, you know, I don't get this. I didn't get the sense that he was like rolling in after a blunt to practice. You know, it was never, it was never like that. But there was some recovery aspect to it. You know, when he was in Boston, he had weed shipped to him. I think it was maybe a family member sent some stuff to him and he got in trouble a little bit for that too. But hey, man, we're, who among us isn't, doesn't succumb to a little bit of ganja here and there. And it is great for recovery too. You know, this is scientific fact.
- [49:49]
Paul Knepper
It's fascinating. I'm, I, you know, there are guys who swear by it. You know, you'll see like, you know, Matt Barnes and, and Stephen Jackson, they'll swear by it on their podcasts. And it's interesting. When I, I played high school basketball and I, I, when I, my, my senior year, every, every year, I'm not going to call out their names, but everybody, every, every day before practice, I drove these two juniors to practice. Yeah, I'd pick them up and we stop at the park and they would go and they would get high and then come to practice and, and be fun. I couldn't do that. I personally couldn't do that. I wouldn't be able to perform. No judgment. I just, I found it, I found it interesting that some, you know, it affects different people differently and I, I,
- [50:32]
Jake Udi
I run every day. I try to run three or four miles every day and I usually take a little hit beforehand. It sort of clears my head. You, obviously you can't do it too much across messing up your lungs, but there was a couple times where I didn't ask him about it, but I could tell that Robert had probably just smoked once or twice before we got on the phone.
- [50:51]
Paul Knepper
Man, he's cheaping. Yeah, he's a, he's a cool dude. I mean, that's kind of the takeaway Right. I mean I, that's, I just walked, came away from it like, oh, wow, Chief is, he's a cool guy.
- [51:02]
Jake Udi
Yes. And that is I think what the world is discovering, you know, and it's, he's not, he's not the, the, the Billy Goats Gruff, you know, under the bridge, you know, he's not that guy. He's really is a gregarious and you know, maybe it comes in spurts, the whole introvert thing. You know, maybe you can do it for a week or two and then it, or do it a day and then you have to take a break for a week or whatever. You know, he may not be one of those people who can be on all the time. I'm certainly not. But when he, when he feels comfortable when he's presenting it, it's, you know, you're captivated.
- [51:32]
Paul Knepper
Yeah. Well, that's great. Yeah. I, as I said, I love the book. I, I really. Because, because he's, he's, he, he's perceived as an enigmatic. You know, that's really what makes it work, is that nobody knew anything about the Chief before. The last thing I want to ask you, I was, I was actually wondering and so get ready for this, to do this interview. I was wondering, it's a question for you, Jake, because you have collaborated, I think you said, seven athletes you, you've done books with. Who is your dream collaborator on a book?
- [52:06]
Jake Udi
Oh man.
- [52:07]
Paul Knepper
I mean it could be basketball. I know you write about music. It could be a musician. Who would you love to write a book with?
- [52:12]
Jake Udi
Well, my, my, my favorite basketball player as a kid was John Stockton. He, he has a book now, so. And he's also seemingly a very strange guy, but I loved him growing up. His all time assistant steals leader, you know, Steph Curry would be amazing. I talked to him briefly for the Mugsy Bogues book and there's, you know, those for the Charlotte connection. Larry Bird be amazing. You know, there's, there's a lot, there's a lot of great stories to tell that in one sense you want to work with the most famous person. Michael Jordan, Steph Curry, LeBron, whatever. But another sense, there's really great stories to tell too. Like Horace Grant would be really great. Amari Stoudemire would be really cool.
- [52:52]
Paul Knepper
I just listened to Horace Grant this morning on All Smoke. Yes, it's great story. His background, his upbringing and, and you know, played with, with Michael and Shaq and Kobe and.
- [53:04]
Jake Udi
Yeah, yeah. A few emails may have been sent at this point, but there's a lot of people and I ultimately, I just love doing this. I, I don't, it's just, I feel call to it. I'm not trying to aggrandize it and you know, in any way, but I just, I love it. You know, it's gives me life. I get excited to do it. I'm, I like to do it every single day. And so as long as anybody will let me, I, I will do it.
- [53:29]
Paul Knepper
Here's one, here's one that I would do, I would love and maybe, maybe you could do if you would ever do it. And like again, the word enigmatic comes to mind is Patrick Hewitt.
- [53:42]
Jake Udi
A few emails have been sent and I, I, I don't, I think there's, I think he's one of the guys who doesn't want to revisit. If I had to guess, he hasn't said anything about this to me whatsoever.
- [53:53]
Paul Knepper
Yeah.
- [53:53]
Jake Udi
Any, any particular reason that I don't want to put words in his mouth, but in my experience, I have a feeling that there are parts that he doesn't necessarily want to revisit. And, and maybe people, you know, you don't have to revisit them, at least not in, in a way that maybe you, you're scared to or whatever. Usually these books end up being a reason to celebrate the person and that I do them. I'm not trying to put Patrick Ewing in a tough situation, you know, or I don't want, you know, that's not the point. The point is, is the all encompassing look at what you do. Did, you know, look at this life, look at what you achieved. But you know, Patrick Ewing has also gone through a lot of bad, bad press and negative press for whatever reason. And that can be scarring for people, especially if you don't have thick skin. I don't know if he does or doesn't. He probably has thicker skin than I do. So it's, it's tough. I would love to speak with him. He would be amazing. And he, Robert was there or he something. They were there. Or for Dwight Howard maybe. I think for his basketball hall of Fame. I may have sent Patrick, presented him. Yeah. But I don't, I don't think it's the right time. Maybe next year. Robert, in fact had said earlier that it wasn't the right time for him and he eventually said yes. So some, you know, we'll see. But he'd be great.
- [55:01]
Paul Knepper
All right. Well, once again, the name of Jake's book is the Chief the Story of the Boston Celtics. Most enigmatic icon. Cool dude. Robert Patterson. Cool.
- [55:11]
Jake Udi
Yes. And thank you as always, Paul. You're the beatron saint of sportsbooks as far as you and so I appreciate you having me on.
- [55:17]
Paul Knepper
And Jake, tell tell the listeners when the Jason Terry book will be coming out.
- [55:22]
Jake Udi
It's scheduled for September. You know there's always it can always change here there by a week or two but it's scheduled for the fall. It's called Jet how to Predict and Win an NBA Championship because he had the the trophy on that he got to predict the Phallus 2000.
- [55:37]
Paul Knepper
That's crazy.
- [55:39]
Jake Udi
And Dirk. Dirk and Jason Kidd did the forward so we got two forwards for the book and it's it's a great one and has a lot of Seattle connections which is near and dear to my heart living in Seattle. So hopefully we'll talk about that then.
- [55:51]
Paul Knepper
That's awesome. All right. Well best of luck with the chief book.
- [55:54]
Jake Udi
Thank you brother. Thanks for having me.
- [55:56]
Paul Knepper
Shirt.