Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Ranveeth (New Books Human Rights Channel)
Guest: Robin F. Hansen, Associate Professor, College of Law, University of Saskatchewan
Book Discussed: Prison Born: Incarceration and Motherhood in the Colonial Shadow (U Regina Press, 2024)
Release Date: December 26, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features a compelling conversation between the host, Ranveeth, and legal scholar Robin F. Hansen about Hansen’s new book, Prison Born: Incarceration and Motherhood in the Colonial Shadow. The book delves into the widespread practice in Canada of automatically separating newborns from incarcerated birthing parents, especially focusing on Indigenous women’s experiences. The discussion unpacks the personal, legal, and theoretical dimensions of this injustice, reveals how colonial and systemic biases persist in the Canadian criminal justice system, and considers pathways for change within existing laws.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Genesis and Motivation for the Book

• Robin recounts how her work on international law shifted to the issue of incarcerated mothers after encountering the case of a pregnant Indigenous woman deprived of the opportunity to parent her newborn due to prison policies.
• Hansen’s deeply personal connection—reading legal cases while pregnant herself—made the issue "impossible to ignore" and drove her to advocate for her client and eventually research the broader phenomenon.

“I learned that in Canada, it's very common practice for babies born to incarcerated persons to be automatically removed from their birthing parents at birth, just as a matter of course. And I didn't know that before… it really affected me finding out about this.” (Robin Hansen 02:06)

2. Research Methods and Approach

• Hansen combines legal analysis, systems theory, and reflective engagement, including personal experience and direct narratives from those affected, especially "Jackie" (a pseudonym for her client).
• She highlights how her study evolved from thinking solely about gender bias to a broader, more intersectional understanding rooted in Canada’s colonial context.

“There was quite a journey with it because I hadn't reflected very much on colonialism in Canada before this book… I was just trying to understand why this is happening.” (Robin Hansen 06:00)

3. "Jackie's" Story and Lived Experience

• A central narrative involves "Jackie," an Indigenous woman who was pregnant and sent to prison, highlighting lack of legal representation, stressful hearing processes, denied medical care, shackled labor, and their traumatic health impacts on both mother and child.
• The injustices described are deeply intertwined with stereotypes about Indigenous motherhood and systemic underfunding of legal support services.

“She only got 10 minutes notice of this motion hearing…she was in full-blown labor by Thursday night…and they put her in leg shackles...her placenta ruptured...and her son was born six weeks early.” (Robin Hansen 09:55) “She wrote that passage, and I think it's the most important part of the book. And, you know, once you start to see the process by which people are written off in the system, it's hard to unsee it.” (Robin Hansen 15:21)

4. Systems Theory, Spatialized Justice & Colonial Ideology

• Hansen uses systems theory and the concept of spatialized justice to explain how legal and bureaucratic processes perpetuate harm and dehumanization, particularly toward Indigenous people.
• These frameworks helped her trace how assumptions in the courtroom—such as the belief that foster care is automatically preferable—enable rights deprivations.

“I was really struck by how strong this idea that this was deserved was for this person. And I thought, okay, this is the core idea. This is why these children's rights are being ignored.” (Robin Hansen 20:18)

5. Charter Rights, International Law, and Legal Personhood of Newborns

• The discussion explores how current Canadian practices violate both Charter rights and international legal obligations under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, as newborns’ interests and rights are not considered in sentencing and prison protocols.
• Hansen stresses that judicial decisions routinely ignore the ways that separation constitutes an additional, unacknowledged punishment for both mothers and children.

“A decision about separation made at birth that's not taking into account access to bonding is not fair process and is arbitrary and not consistent with the newborn's rights under Section 7 to fundamental justice.” (Robin Hansen 24:17) “There's an obvious obligation on Canada and its provinces to do this...we can't ignore the interests of the children point blank…with automatic separation and still be in compliance with our international law obligations.” (Robin Hansen 27:47)

6. Solutions Within Existing Legal Frameworks

• Hansen argues for pragmatic, non-radical reforms: courts and correctional facilities already have the means, under current law, to address and prevent these harms by implementing due process and focusing on the best interests of children.
• She suggests practical steps, such as:
  • Considering the welfare of children at every stage: bail, sentencing, and administration of incarceration
  • Creating dedicated facilities so mothers and newborns can remain together when in the child’s best interest
  • Learning from international best practices, since automatic separation is not universal

“My argument is that we have to check and see what should happen in the individualized circumstances. And in most cases, staying together is probably what we would see as being the appropriate course of action.” (Robin Hansen 31:22) "This book does not propose radical changes…simply propose that we within the legal system treat newborn children to incarcerated mothers as persons entitled to the rule of law.” (Robin Hansen 29:40)

7. The Colonial Roots of Incarceration and Dehumanization

• Hansen outlines how the Canadian legal system has historically criminalized Indigenous identity, embedding mechanisms for state control through law, and how dehumanization works on two levels: as a prisoner, and as an Indigenous person labeled criminal.

“I think that the greatest thing that I learned in writing this book was in seeing how the Canadian legal system created these categories for Indigenous people and then forced Indigenous people into them so that they could be incarcerated.” (Robin Hansen 35:42)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Legal Assumptions and Prejudice:
  • "I was really struck by how strong this idea that this was deserved was for this person.” (Robin Hansen 20:18)
• On Lived Experience:
  • "She wrote that passage, and I think it's the most important part of the book…" (Robin Hansen 15:21)
• On Solutions:
  • “There needs to be a place, some sort of maternity house or, or health house for them to be in that will allow them to be together with their child after birth.” (Robin Hansen 31:22)
• On Dehumanization:
  • "There's two different layers of dehumanization happening, which is the dehumanization of being a prisoner and the dehumanization of being a readily labeled criminal indigenous person…” (Robin Hansen 35:42)

Key Timestamps

• [01:29] Introduction of Robin Hansen and the main theme.
• [02:06] Personal account: Hansen’s path to the project.
• [06:00] Research methodology: from gender bias to colonial critique.
• [09:55] “Jackie’s” story: legal process, lack of representation, shackled labor and trauma.
• [15:21] Systemic stereotypes and the importance of personal testimony.
• [20:18] Theoretical frameworks: systems theory, spatialized justice.
• [24:17] Charter rights, legal personhood at birth, and due process failures.
• [27:47] International law obligations and Canada’s failure to comply.
• [29:40] Solutions: Not radical, but within existing legal doctrine.
• [31:22] Concrete reforms: bail, sentencing, prison administration, medical best interest.
• [35:42] Colonialism, criminalization of Indigeneity, and dehumanization.
• [39:48] Hansen’s ongoing research: compiling international best practices.

Closing

The episode offers a deep, multidisciplinary dive into the legal, historical, and human realities of mothers and newborns affected by carceral Canadian policies. Robin Hansen’s work and advocacy illuminate the continuity between colonial oppression and contemporary legal practices, while also mapping out possible reforms that respect the rights and personhood of both mothers and children.