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Rolando Pujol, "The Great American Retro Road Trip: A Celebration of Roadside Americana" (Artisan Publishers, 2025)
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- [00:00]
A
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B
Hi, this is Rebecca Buchanan, host of New Books Network, New Books and Popular Culture. And today I am here with Rolando Pujol, who is the author of the Great American Retro Road Trip, A Celebration of Roadside Americana. Rolando Hulf. Thanks for being here with me today.
- [02:10]
C
It's a pleasure to be here to talk about my favorite subject, road trips and Americana along those roads.
- [02:17]
B
So can you talk a little bit about how this book came to be, why you put this book together yeah.
- [02:22]
C
In a sense, I guess. I've been writing this book my entire life. I've had an interest in subject matter since I was a child. One of my formative experiences and my first memories is a road trip that my family took from New York City down to Florida, down in Miami A&I95. And of course you're gonna see a lot of quote unquote Americana along the way. And a visit to one particular place halfway between Miami and New York called South of the Border in Dillon, South Carolina, which is a kitschy as all get out, just kind of a, kind of a wild place made a particular impression on this four year old. Right. And so that memory and memories like it stuck with me from other trips that we took to Florida and other parts of the country. And so my interest in the subject matter never really kind of way. But I didn't really think about what I was interested in. I just knew I was drawn to these places. But it really wasn't until I was in my 20s when I began to take road trips on my own. I found that I wanted to do these things and I'd visit a city with the. I'd go to Pittsburgh with some friends for the weekend and they would want to do the thing, go to museums and go to restaurants and I'm like, well, I'm going to go peel off and go look for old bars and restaurants and There's a vintage McDonald's down in this part of town. And they're like, you want to do that? I'm like yeah, that's what I'll do. I'll meet you tonight, you know. So I began to figure out that this is the kind of stuff that I cared about that I, I wanted to document. And I was very curious about what the backstories were behind a lot of these places. But I didn't begin to document it in a kind of a public facing fashion until let's say the late aughts, initially in newspapers and in television. Then I launched my own blog, initially on Tumblr and then came the Instagram. And that's really where I found my audience and I found my groove and I discovered that w people really are interested in this stuff. I'm not alone in this at all, both in terms of audience potential, people who are going to read your stuff, but also people who are doing it themselves. You found a lot of kindred spirits through social media. So it was, I would say it was a journey of several decades before I kind of, that I realized I was on Only later. But the interest was there from practically the very beginning.
- [04:39]
B
Yeah. I have to laugh because when the book showed up, I showed my husband. He's like, oh, that's totally your thing. I'm like, I know.
- [04:46]
C
Oh, that's great, though.
- [04:48]
B
He's like, you love that song. I'm like, I know. I do.
- [04:52]
C
So, yeah.
- [04:53]
B
So, like, this book, like, it's a beautiful book. Right. Like, can you talk a little bit about, like, that process, too? Like, I. I would love to hear a little bit about, like, how you chose, before we dive into some of the examples, how you chose what you did. Because there is, like, I could do a whole. Like, I'm in the Midwest right now, and I could do a whole thing. I could do a whole book on Paul Bunyan, probably.
- [05:14]
C
Oh, my goodness. Yes. You know.
- [05:15]
B
Right. Growing up in Minnesota. In Minnesota. Right. But can you talk about, like, sort of the choice, like, how you decided to put this together, the choices that you made?
- [05:25]
C
Sure. Well, I mean, it's funny how this idea emerged. I was initially approached by artisan back in 2022 to gauge my interest in writing a book. And of course I was interested. It was the email I'd been waiting for my entire life, Right. Like, oh, somebody wants me to write a book and I don't have to shop it around. Wow. So the good thing is, and initially, the book was perhaps going to far less complex than it turned out to be. I'd done so much work already. I'd published so much on my Instagram and other places that it really could have been just a compilation of photos and essays and kind of put it together in a nice wrapper and call it a book. But the more I thought about what I wanted to do, I wanted to create something that somebody would get, that readers would get excited about, where it would give them a kind of a comprehensive sense for the scope of these places. In all, at least in the lower 48, I never made it to Alaska or Hawaii. Perhaps there'll be a second edition, who knows? But I wanted to really give it that sense of comprehensiveness. And of course, you're not going to get to everything right. And nor can you. I mean, the book would be just entirely unwieldy if I managed to cram in even more than I already did. It ultimately have to be reflective of the places that I was interested in and that I had the good fortune to visit. But the way I broke it down was for years prior to writing the book, I've maintained Google Maps for each state in the country. And on these maps I have places that I've either shot or that I want to shoot. So let's say you and I are having a conversation and you mentioned, oh, there's this place right outside of Minneapolis that you want. I'm like, oh, I don't know about that place. I pop it on the map and next time I'm in mini, I'll go and check it out, right? So I had this research of cigar I'd visited and then also places that I knew that I would like to go that I hadn't gone to yet. So basically I had my orders, so to speak, in terms of how I was going to do the book. I wanted it to include all these states and as many of these places as possible. And then I sort of organize them by different categories. So there's each book, each chapter is a part of the country. The Northeast, the Mid Atlantic, the Southeast, et cetera, et cetera. And then within those, it's broken down by different categories, like what I call the roadside. Roadside quirks, which are the Paul Bunyans and the big quirky buildings that are shaped after the product that they sell. You know, places where theaters, motels, you know, mainstays of Main street, like barber shops and, you know, little, little, little places that are mom and pop shops. Fast food places are sprinkled throughout the book as well. I have little dollops throughout the book that I call pullovers, which are basically what everyone says in a road trip, pull over, pull over. So it's a little place in that part of the world that may not quite fit into one of the other categories or. That's so interesting. That deserves a little bit more of a, of a bigger write up. So I'll call that a P and we'll go into it. And then we have sprinkled throughout as well, a bunch of sidebars. I have a lot of interest in fast food and the evolution of it. So I have a whole section on Dairy queens and on McDonald's and different sort of iconic brands which reflect my interest in charting and documenting the evolution of these places. I find it so interesting to be in a small town in the Midwest and it's a Dairy Queen that has been relatively untouched since the 1950s. Those are becoming very, very rare to find. So I wanted to sort of get those into the book. So that's sort of the flavor of every chapter. And what I'm really. What it was really. I'm trying to do a number of things with the book, but one of Them was really just inspire people to plan their next vacation here in the United States. And to the extent that they could do it by car and pull over as I write in the book, and, you know, photograph these places, step inside, spend a little money, these businesses, because I think these people who run these places, I mean, the vast majority of them fast food places aside, national chains, they're not making a lot of money. Their margins really aren't there. They're doing this out of love, out of a sense of devotion to their family. It might be a business or grandfather or great grandfather started and they don't want to shut it. So what can we do as Americans who like to travel and have the privilege of being able to luxuriate and leisure time to go to these places and give these people the support that they need. So that's one of the underlying sort of messages of the book. It's again, giving you a guide to find these places, sparking joy and curiosity. But also there's a little bit of a mission statement there, which is let us do whatever we can to keep these places thriving.
- [10:30]
B
Yeah. Because it's great throughout. You have sort of little. You kind of give a narrative of these places. And some of them have, like, since you visited, have sort of shuttered and others or become repurposed from other reasons. So it's really nice too, to be able to see, okay, this has been around. It's still there. Hopefully, if we keep going, if, you know, you spend some time there. But others, you know, have tried the best they could, but for whatever reasons, they've had to shut down.
- [11:00]
C
They're no more. And it's funny, that process was happening right up until the deadline of the book. We went to press in late December of 2020 and like, literally days before, I'm like, oh, oh, unfortunately, this place just closed. Can we sneak that in? You know, and I think in the six months of between it being sent to the press and hitting the hitting stores, a bunch of more places closed and more have closed since, which again, underscores the urgency of visiting and supporting these places, but also just how overall, how fragile what we call roadside Americana really is, is.
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B
Right. So I thought we could talk. I mean, you have how many? 1, 2, 11. Right. 11 chapters, is that right?
- [11:42]
C
That sounds about right. I lose track.
- [11:46]
B
California gets its own kind of. Yeah. So I thought maybe we could talk a little bit about a place or two in these different areas. Like, you start with the North. I mean, I have. I lived in the Northeast for a long time. And I grew up and live in the Midwest kind of area. So I mean there are places and then the heartland in the Midwest and especially the Northeast that I am like. Yes, but I mean, I'm wondering maybe starting with the Northeast because that's what you start with and kind of where you are based. Yeah. Are there. Do you want to.
- [12:16]
C
Sure, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I grew up in Sleepy Hollow, New York, which is one of the most. If you're into history and you're into writing and lore, what wonderful place to grow up, right? Especially be in Halloween. So growing up there had a great influence on me and my interest in history and my interest in the past. Past, but. But also our travels as just around the area. As a kid, I encountered a lot of the features that, you know that are sprinkled throughout the book. For example, not far from me in Elmsford, there was a, a muffler man, a big roadside giant outside of what used to be an Amoco station, now BP station. I, I loved that thing and I was really intrigued with it. And when you're a kid, you seem, you think that whatever it is that you're seeing right in front of you, this is the only example of it. It was made right. And then later on in life discovering that there were hundreds of these statues all around the country made of fiberglass, doing business outside of a range of businesses, not just auto repair shops and all within about, say, 10 minute drive of where I grew up. You had that. You had a Holiday Inn with a great Holiday Inn sign. You had vintage McDonald's and Burger Kings. You had auto shops that featured the Smiling Bear character, the Great Bear. You had old diners, you know, chrome plated, dating back to the 30s and 40s. I mean, all the things that sort of intrigued me about the roadside were all available nearby. Now, a lot of those places near me when I grew up have closed. I mean, they've gone away. And you have to be. And this is part of what sort of drove. I think the curiosity on this book is that you have to go farther and farther afield to places that are more and more remote to find outposts of these kinds of things. I mean, of these kinds of places. And so that is what drove the curiosity. But the Northeast is certainly for me, tremendously fertile ground. I mean, some of my favorite places are right here in New York City where I live. Some of the best neon that you'll find is right here and still going. But again, again, we're losing places all the time. And you get reports Just last night, for example, I work at abc and as I was heading to the Ear Inn, which is another historic inn, it's not in the book actually, but should be in a future edition, which itself has a great neon sign, I noticed that another neon sign that had been dark, I think for a long time. I'd never seen it lit form a governs bar, which is now a place called Paul's Casablanca. But they kept the sign that the sign was lit. And it was just like a wonderful thing to see that it was actually shining for the first time that I had ever seen it because such moments have become so rare, because we've lost so much. But. But yes, here in the Northeast, if you're, you know, certainly in New Jersey, you want to explore diners, you want to great, great fast food places. You know, up in New England, of course, you are the birthplace of the diner, but so there's a lot of that. But there's also a lot of outside Americana up in New England going all the way up the coast, all the way up to Maine. One of my favorite spots is practically in Canada. It's the wild blueberry land up in Columbia Falls, which is just extraordinary. It's like this huge geodesic dome and it is all a tribute to the blueberry, one of the staple crops of the region. It was constructed not that long ago in the early 2000s, but it certainly looks like the kind of place that had been around since the 50s or 60s, 60s, with the dioramas and all kinds of interesting things inside. So, yeah, for me, the Northeast is fertile ground for this kind of exploration. But the great thing about the book is that you can pick any place on the map and you'll find similar places.
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B
And I have to give a shout out to my all time, absolutely favorite sort of American. I don't know what you would call her. I have a Lucy. I tease her that she was named after Lucy the Elephant. She was not. But Lucy the Elephant in Margate, New Jersey is my. I was looking around cause I have a little stuffed Lucy somewhere, but it's not in this room. I love Lucy the Elephant so much.
- [16:57]
C
Yes. Oh, me too. You know, I mean, it's absolutely gorgeous. And you know, the other day Lucy the Elephant followed me on Instagram and I felt like it was, you know, like George Clooney had weighed in and said, I like your stuff. Here's a. Like, you know. But yeah, Lucy is fantastic. And in many respects she is the beginning of roadside Americana in America. I mean, there were places before that, you might perhaps consider there's, for example, a coffee pot in North Carolina that dates back to the 1850s. But in reality, Lucy is seen as sort of like where it all began, 1881. There were at one point like multiple Lucy's, but she's still there. Fortunately, these places survive because people love them and because people realize what's there. And Lucy was saved by preservationists, preservationists back in the 70s. And she's very, very well taken care of. She recently got a new skin to make her more waterproof. And. No, she's definitely one of the reasons you want to be in South Jersey. And then if you're all the way down there. Another place that gets attention and love of my book is Wild West New Jersey, which is actually three different communities. Wildwood Crest and North Wildwood and Wildwood Proper. And it is the Doo Wop motel capital of the world. And Doo Wop is kind of a style that's very similar to what on the west coast is known as Googie style. So, like buildings that have exaggerated forms and bold, funky signs and great fascinating pops of color. You know, they really. Buildings that really, really make a spl. The Doo Wop name, of course, coming from the era in which these places were built, when Doo Wop music was particularly popular. But even in Wildwood, which still has so many of these places, we get reports all the time of places closing. I mean, one of the spots in my book, the panoramic, which had a great sign and a great sort of stylish look, closed and the sign was taken down. Hopefully it will return one day. But again, even places as cherished and beloved with such. Such preservationist fervor as Wildwood are themselves constantly under threat. Because whenever you've got, you know, it's just the market. It's capitalism. It's the marketplace imperative. And unless it's landmarks and there's really an incentive to preserve it, it can be threatened. And even places that are landmarked sometimes can be demolished by neglect or there's other ways to sort of work around it. But anyway, this part of the world, South Jersey, Jersey, Wildwood, Cape May, it's a different vibe entirely. I left it out of the book. That's more Victorian, but. But that whole stretch is. Is definitely worth the. Worth the. Worth the trip.
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B
Yes. And worth the food. Totally. Oh, God, any boardwalk food, you're good to go.
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C
Oh, you said it. You know, so.
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B
Yeah. So you talk too, then. Then. So you talked about sort of the Northeast, New England, but then you also like you talk a lot about the sort of mid Atlantic and especially the Southeast as your memories.
- [20:19]
C
Right.
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B
And going and convincing or trying to convince readers to not go down necessarily major interstate throughways to find. So can you talk a little bit about sort of mid Atlantic Southeast, what you were, what you wanted to highlight in those places?
- [20:35]
C
Sure, sure. Yeah. I mean, absolutely. I mean, one of the interesting things about, you know, the trip down to Florida is that there are multiple ways to get down there. Right. I mean, of course we have 95, which in and of itself, you know, I'm not entirely against 95. I mean, there are some gems right off of it, but. But if you just. There are interesting roads, however, that parallel 95 that also go north and south. One of my favorites is 301, which has all kinds of gems in old motels and places that you would miss if you're, you know, gunning it down. 95 or 17 is another good road that has all kinds of interesting things. So I'm trying to encourage people, however, to look and to find that which is interesting, really, wherever they happen to be, but really sort of get off of the main road if you can, because that's really where you start to find the good stuff. I mentioned, of course, south of the border, which is one of the highlights of 95, it was constructed, emerged from a beer stand in the 1950s by a fellow named Alan Shaffer, who then turned it into this sort of Erzatz Mexican themed attraction. Not the most perhaps politically correct place in the world, if you've been. But it certainly is interesting and wild. And I've always felt that there's a certain kind of guileless innocence to it, you know, that has always attracted me to it. And it's funny, my sister doesn't live that far. She settled in North Carolina with her husband and they have a couple of kids now. And when the kids were small, we, my sister and I would take them down to south of the border so that we could share that experience with them. Them. And they develop the same sort of nostalgic hold on it. It developed the same sort of nostalgic hold on them that it has on us. And this is one of the things that I love is that these cherishing and enjoying and appreciating these places can be, you know, transgenerational. Right. You can just. If you can, if you instill it in the next generation, they will then excel it and the subsequent one. And I've certainly seen that with me. But. But I think there's just Something so interesting about the trip down south and the sort of the gradual shift of climate, the gradual shift of topography, and your first sighting of the palm tree as you get into South Carolina and Georgia. I absolutely love it all. And the number of opportunities to pull over and explore, certainly near the Atlantic are huge. I mean, Charleston and Savannah. And then of course when you get into Florida, it's itself, that's really where my radar sort of goes off, especially in north and central Florida. You have so many of these places that are, I like to call Old Florida, right? These relics of the way that people used to be diverted prior to the emergence of the mass amusement parks in the 70s, the Disney worlds, for example, and the Universals, the places like, you know, like Alligator Land and places like this that are so interesting that Florida still has the Weeki Wachee mermaids. And the book is teeming with these little places. And not only places that you can visit and explore, right? But then also Gatorland, I should say not Alligatorland, but that's teeming with these places that you could explore that you can still visit. But then also really funky roadside attractions. Like there is a auto repair shop that's shaped like a giant, giant dinosaur, you know, and all the work is done in the belly of the dinosaur, right? I mean, how, how cool is that? I mean, you see that and it just brings a smile to your face and you sort of wanna, you can't help but pull over and grab a photo of it and, and get curious about all the other stuff that's down there. So as you work your way down, down Florida, another favorite place of mine is in Kissimmee Eli's Orange World, which is this gigantic orange shaped structure, kind of a half an orange, half a half dome that with all kinds of kitschy Florida souvenirs, many of them orange themed, but a place that you absolutely must go. I mean, and then those little orange juice stands that you'll still find along the road or places that sell peanuts and places that sell all of that. Speaking of peanuts, I mean, I think of Plains, Georgia, which is of course the home of President Jimmy Carter. Carter that gets a nice little write up in my book. And so many interesting places to see there. And the kitschiest of them all, of course, is the giant Jimmy Carter smiling peanut, which is on the outskirts of town, not far from the church where he used to preach until not long before he passed away. That particular structure was constructed for the 1976 campaign and ended up down in Plains. And the story goes that Carter wasn't a particular fan of it, but nevertheless, he did nothing to dissuade its celebration and showcasing in town. So the Deep south is again, just full of these places, and getting to Plains is not particularly easy. I mean, you have to make a commitment to get out there. But the payoff is great, so couldn't encourage it more.
- [26:08]
B
So as you're talking and as I was thinking about the book, one thing that seems to pop up a lot, lot is that people constructed big dinosaurs, like, not like all over the country. And so there's, like, dinosaurs everywhere, Like.
- [26:26]
C
Yeah, yes, you know, absolutely. You know, I mean, Rapid City, South Dakota, has this. This wild collection of dinosaurs up in a hill that. That look down in the city that are very beautifully lit at night. And you see them, you're like, what in the world is going on up there? Right. One of the earliest roadside attractions is the dinosaur that was built in the ghost town of Creston, South Dakota, which is quite beautiful and it's hard to see it's way out in the field, but bring a telephoto lens if you want to get a good photo of it. But dinosaurs have always been a source of great intrigue. Right. You think of Claude Bell and his attraction near Palm Springs with the two dinosaurs there that are featured prominently in Pee Wee's big adventure, the Cavazon dinosaurs. And when you're out there, you might as well stop at Hadley's and get a date shake if you've never had a date malt. I mean, those things are just incredible. But whatever, there are more dinosaurs there. And interestingly enough, the dinosaur, one of the dinosaurs, was home at one point to a creationist museum. So, you know, go figure. I don't know, but there you go. The inconsistencies and idiosyncrasies of roadside attractions actions. Another sort of connection to dinosaurs that I'm particularly fond of is the fictional type. In Williams, Arizona, just outside of the south rim of the Grand Canyon is a place that used to be known as Bedrock City, which was an attraction that celebrated the Flintstones. It was blessed by Hanna Barbera and screen Gems. And there was another one up in. Near Custer, South Dakota. Up in Custer, there is still a dino statue that was saved from the Bedrock City that was up there, but that's now gone. But dino is still there and restored. But then there's actually again back in Arizona, there is Bedrock City, and a lot is still left there. The buildings, a great sign featuring Fred. There is a giant dinosaur. There is a little restaurant There that's named after Fred and all kinds of fun little stuff. That place closed. The Speckles family ran it and they sold it back in 2019 to some folks who opened up an attraction there called Raptor Ranch, focusing on birds of prey. But they quickly figured out that, hey, you know, we should keep the Flintstones theme too, because that is what is really drawing people here. So the two kind of coexist peacefully and indeed, you know, birds that prey and raptors, you know, kind of of fits in with the Flintstones theme. If you remember the bird that was also doubled as a record player on the Flintstones. For those with memories of the Flintstones, it kind of fits in. So that's one of my favorite places as well. And I got to it just before the book deadline. I had not been there, but I knew I could not publish this book without visiting Bedrock City. But it is funny how these attractions become sort of monuments to national obsessions. And the minute people begin to have to figure out ways to appeal to motorists, which is really what these places are all about. The emergence of the car and finding ways to get people to stop, to spend a little time, and more importantly, to spend a little money, one of the first things you reach for is, oh, I know, dinosaurs. Who doesn't like dinosaurs, right? Even one of my favorite roadside attractions in. In Arizona, it's called the Thing. And it's one of those places that you get obsessed with as you're driving because of all the billboards that keep tempting you to stop at the thing to see what the thing is. And they recently added a strange dinosaur alien connection to the experience there when they sort of redid the exhibit a couple of years ago, but they kept it thing at the heart of it. And I really can't explain what the thing is. And although there are theories and I don't want to give away what the thing is, but I write more about it in the book and you should definitely go and have the experience yourself. But once again, dinosaurs are brought in. That's just how it is.
- [30:50]
B
So when you talked about other places but the Midwest, so one of the places Midwest, I think, um, one of the important parts of the Midwest that goes along with Americana is it's the start of Route 66. Right? Right. That's really important. Um, also, I feel like the Midwest is really into, like, the world's largest fill in the blank, right. That there is a whole. There's a town you might have been to or not in southern Illinois that I have not been to yet that is claims it's home to the like the most world's largest blight.
- [31:23]
C
Yeah, that's right. I want to say it's. Please fact check me if I think it's KT Illinois, I believe on. But yes, but yes, it's got one. You know, it's funny, I did not make it to make it to it, but it certainly came up when you know, in, in afterwards where people say have you visited this town? I'm like, oh no, I hadn't. But. But it's definitely on my list. Yeah. The Midwest is all about doing like, you know, big things. You know, I mean and, and. And making that big thing the centerpiece of town in the talker and in creating a sense of excitement around these things. Like I'm looking at pictures now, the world's largest golf tee, huge pit, you know, all kinds of interesting things if you explore this one town alone, you know. But, but yeah, not a surprise. I mean you're going to see that in the region that is home to Paul Bunyan and his ox babe. Right. You know, and that's. That's one of the neat things about exploring the Midwest is. Is looking for. For these wild and wonderful things. One of my favorite drives is way up north in Minnesota when you get up to Bemidjdi up that way where you've got perhaps the most famous of the Paul Bunyan statues right in the heart of town. And then not far from there along US 2 is of course the Big Fish Supper Club, a gigantic fish that you can also enjoy a fine meal at. And places that know that are just. Are just so unique and have that. That along with supper clubs, I guess, you know, among the. The. Those things that are so distinctly Midwest.
- [32:58]
B
Right. Like. And so you talk about. Because like there's these giant things. Right. There's also this one thing I think is really interesting that comes up throughout the book are drive in theaters. Right. Like so drive in movie theaters. And not only that the theaters still exist that you can go to them, but the sign, they kind of keep those signs, the nostalgia. So can you talk a little bit about drive in theaters because they come up in multiple areas in the US they do.
- [33:27]
C
Again, another place that emerged responsive to the emergence of the car. Right. First drive in theater opened back in 1933. That one is gone. But there are still quite a number, a few hundred that survive around the country. But their numbers are continually dwindling. What I love about the experience is that it is one of the few things that you can do today where, you know, you are encouraged to put away your phone and just disconnect from the grid. Right. You, it is truly about having an experience in the moment right there. Whether it be, you know, you pull up, you, you, you, you, you know, you pull up, you buy your ticket, you get your car into position, you either tune into a radio station where you're going to hear the audio track for the movie, or if it's one of the places that still has the speaker system, all the better. You can actually have the little speaker up by your car and then you sort of lose yourself in that movie for however long it is, is or whatever else you might be doing in the car. Right. You know, but that's, but that's such a distinctly, I think, American experience. And it's funny how drive in theaters have dwindled over the years, but then suddenly in, during the pandemic, they went where they went for far from being passe, they became almost like a very, very sort of valuable way. And it seemed almost novel way for people to be able to be outside again and to get, gather and have shared experiences, but to do it in a safe way. And there were sort of these pop up drive in movie theaters that emerged around the country during that time. But I think that experience brought attention again to these classic places that are still around. And in most parts of the country, you know, you can still find somewhere out there, you can still find the drive in theater. And the whole experience is just from when you approach it, you see the neon sign to the whole experience of actually being there. Maybe stopping at the concession stand for some popcorn. All of it is just so, you know, distinctly American that if you, if you have never personally listening to this podcast, has never been to a drive in theater, it's definitely worth seeking out. Not right now, of course. Not in January across most of the country. Not all of the country, that's for sure. Seems that Florida is not participating in winter this year, but. But yeah, absolutely, you'll see those. And some of the interesting ones are on Route 66. I have a couple there that are along the mother road. And you had mentioned Route 66. This is a great year to explore the road because it is the 100th anniversary of the designation and the opening, official opening of Route 66. And there are so many ways to explore 66. Right. I mean you can go from, you can do what I did back in 2013 and travel the entire expanse of it. There are parts of it that are still intact. There are Little portions that have been abandoned that you could explore. Other places have been, you know, other parts of it. You have to travel on other roads because the 66 is no longer there. But you can still cover a substantial amount of the original road from Chicago all the way out to the Santa Monica Boardwalk, where Santa Monica Pier, where it ends, we might meet my friends. And we began our trip back in 2013 in downtown Chicago, where the sign says Route 66 begins. And we had lunch at Lou Mitchell's, which is one of those just requisite places to eat along the road. It dates back to around the time that Route 66 opened. And then we were on our way going through all the states. And nine days later we found ourselves from Prairie to Pacific. We were at the Pacific Ocean. And it was just an epic trip. And this is a great year to take it because of the growing interest in nostalgic places. The anniversary and a lot of effort is being put in in a lot of these different towns to sort of look their very best because they know they're going to get a flood of visitors this year. One place that I will shout out is, you know, Tulsa, Oklahoma, which has become always been a hub of the mother road. But there is a wonderful renaissance happening down there, in part driven by one particular person, a woman named Mary Beth Babcock, who owns a kind of a curio shop that's in an old gas station. And she put up a couple of muffler characters there. And then there have been other ones that she has sort of spearheaded the installation of around town. And there's sort of this wonderful renaissance in these structures occurring in Tulsa. And there's a lot more to see in Tulsa too, that is Route 66 or Americana related. So that's one stop that I absolutely, absolutely recommend. This is the year to do it, get out there and see the stuff.
- [38:26]
B
So, yeah, so you've kind of talked a little bit about sort of the Midwest, the heartland, the Southeast. So one of the things that comes up throughout this, you mentioned earlier about like your kind of obsession with fast food and, and so like Dairy Queen and McDonald's. Like, I want to highlight like some of the Dairy Queens you talked about and also because you have a whole chapter on California, but McDonald's is like, you kind of talk about like California being like the, like the motherland of McDonald's, kind of. Right. So, yeah, can you talk a little bit about some of that? We have this Dairy Queen here in town that is, it's just a walk up Dairy Queen. So you know, like, we wait till it opens, it's closed. Right. You know, we know when it's going to close. Yeah, that kind of thing. They have changed the signs, though. So it's not, you know, but it's. I know, I know. I don't know where those signs are, but it's still like a family owned, owned kind of. There's the Dairy Queen, but. Yeah. So I love seeing all the different Dairy Queens and then the McDonald's. So. Yeah. Can you talk a little about. Because we often take for granted that fast food places are just the same.
- [39:28]
C
Yes, no, that's true. And you know, listen, I think these historic ones that have managed to survive or sort of skirt around corporate strictures to update are particularly precious because the fast food architecture landscape of the 21st century is a very kind of. Maybe dystopian is too strong. Wrong a word, but certainly very bland and banal. I mean, most of these structures are now these square glass boxes. They're very innocuous buildings. The signage doesn't call much attention. And that's almost by design. Right. I mean, because you could. If it's a big square glass box, it could be a Wendy's one day, it could be a McDonald's the next day. And it doesn't take a lot of work. Whereas before, each of these fast food chains had a distinctive style, whether it be in the architecture of the building, whether it be in the signage. I mean, if you go back to. To. Let's set the year 1980, 1985, McDonald's had a particular look, the mansard building with the mansard roof and a certain kind of sign. Wendy's had its own particular look, Burger King had its own particular look. And you could be Pizza Hut, naturally, Dairy Queen, and you could see these restaurants from a mile away on the road. And you knew, oh, that's a Dairy Queen or that's a Pizza Hut. You just knew. Right. The branding and the marketing was built right into the structure. And that made them so interesting because the design, it was not only something that occurred on the outside, it was also the experience that you had inside. That is also what made it so special. One thing that I mentioned in the book is Pizza Hut and the emergence of this retro trend that the company undertook for several years with some of its legacy restaurants called Pizza Hut Classic, where they would take one of their old Pizza Hut buildings, the one with the red roof, they would then bring back the old logo from the 70s, both on the building itself saying Pizza Hut, but also the signage and then inside they would undo all the renovations that occurred in the 21st century and in the 90s and go back to the dining room concept that was there from the 60s through the 80s with the red leather booths and the checkered board tablecloths and the old arcade games and that feeling that you got back in the day walking into a Pizza Hut, they sort of restored that. And I think it was brilliant. Of all the things that I've written on my substack, my article about the Pizza Hut classic and where to find them, which took so much research to turn up dozens of these places because Pizza Hut never really put out a press release about it. They just sort of did it. And that was. It is one of the most read things that I've ever done. So. And Pizza Hut's slightly a little different than fast food because it's more of a sit down experience. But you had mentioned dairy queen and McDonald's in California, of course, the birthplace of McDonald's, begun by the McDonald's brothers as a barbecue stand in San Bernardino, which eventually developed into the speedy service system with the patty faced chef character. Ray Kroc enters the picture in the early 50s, realizes that these brothers have stumbled upon something brilliant. Brilliant. He is the. Say what you will about Ray Kroc, he's a brilliant businessman. He sees the opportunity that the brothers really aren't getting. He buys them out for a song. I think it was like 1.8 million. Oh my God, you know, and then he is, becomes the, you know, the quote unquote, the founder of McDonald's. But, but Kroc really understood the importance of, of branding and using the building to sell. Right. You go back to the buildings from the 1950s and the ones that had the, the golden arches on the side of the structure itself. There are some examples of those that are still around, some repurposed. I mentioned one in, in Texas that, that is still, that is in western, near Marshall, Texas in eastern Texas. But then there's also ones that are actually still McDonald's. The most famous of course being the one in Downey, California. The oldest operating McDonald's dating back to 1953. And the original structure is still there. A very unique towering sign of speedy, beautiful neon sign. And they have a little museum there on the premises as well. So there's one McDonald's to seek out for its history, it's that one. There's another McDonald's up in San Jose that also features the 1960s and 50s style buildings and it's still in McDonald's there's a new, newer structure behind it and a drive through, but still, you can still see it there. But the vast majority of these are gone or have been repurposed. And interestingly, and I mentioned this in the book as well, McDonald's began to embrace its own nostalgia in the 80s and 90s and zeros and aunts and brought back this style of building. Larger buildings with proper dining rooms rather than them being walk ups but still very, very interesting places. And those were constructed about almost a generation ago now, but there's still quite a number of them around. But even those have been somewhat muted back. The color schemes sort of dialed down to reflect the overall more neutral look of McDonald's these days. And I do think that McDonald's will at some point embrace nostalgia for their 70s 80s style buildings, the mans, which were once everywhere. There was a time when I've never thought of photographing them because they were in every single town. But now there must be only a few dozen left, if that, you know. And whenever I see one or spot one, I get very excited and I go pull over and take pictures of it, share it on social media. People love those. And I wouldn't be surprised if at some point, the same way that McDonald's went back to the the 50s look in the 90s and alts for nostalgia, that at some point they create like a neo mansard building that would feature maybe a 70s style McDonald's, McDonald's land or a play place, you know, with all the big structures and Mayor McCheese and the officer Big Mac jail and all of that really, really cool stuff which is now so hard to find at a McDonald's because they get it. I mean this past summer they brought back, they had this meal campaign that was called the McDonaldland meal that brought back these characters. A couple of years earlier they had a grimace shake which was a sensation and went viral on TikTok, which is of course what you want to happen. The marketing was done on McDonald's behalf by folks who were intrigued with us, right. And so they sort of get their legacy, but it really hasn't. And its power, but it really hasn't extended to the architecture. But I wouldn't be surprised if at some point you start to see some themed retro McDonald's reflect, reflecting that 70s 80s vibe that so many people, you know, really vibe with. Right. And then last but not least, you mentioned Dairy Queen. There are you can. The book traces the evolution of all these Dairy Queen styles going back to the 1950s, the ones that I'm most fond of are the very simple, you know, hut, like concrete structures, right, that feature the horizontal Dairy Queen sign with a little cone with a swirl on top. Those are just so beautiful. And to me, there were few experiences more distinctly American than being at a Dairy Queen on a Friday night. You know, sitting under the fluorescent light over the overhang while you're putting in your order, and you can hear the sizzle of the neon sign. And in the back, kids are playing and folks are talking and, you know, the. The. The. The rituals of teenage dating are occurring, and all of these wonderful things are happening all around, around you, and the kids are showing up from Little League, and it's all centered around the Dairy Queen. And it's 85 and it's muggy and it's gross out. But, man, that to me is. That to me is Americana. And Dairy Queen was so good at opening these tiny little stands in either downtown or just outside of downtowns or right off the road and creating these little hubs of life in the smallest of towns. And that's, to me, is beyond just the architect and the style and the kitsch element of it is, to me what makes them so special. Like, when I'm at a Dairy Queen on one of my road trips in the sun, I feel like, again, I don't know anyone in this town, but yet I feel very connected to everybody there. And I feel that I'm part of something, something bigger than myself, which is, I think, why we. We ultimately go to these places.
- [48:21]
B
It's so funny because you've kind of described. Besides, we don't have the neon sign anymore. But the Dairy Queen of my team town, like, yes, you know, like, after certain events, you're going to run in who you're going to run into there. Or like, yeah, that kind of. Oh, my God, that's my third grade teacher. Oh, my God.
- [48:35]
C
They didn't realize she was still alive.
- [48:36]
B
You know, my friends make fun of me because they're like, rebecca knows when the Dairy Queen opens. Because I'm like, of course I have to go. The. Like, I don't care that it's still cold out. I mean, I grew up in Minnesota, so it's okay. It's cold. The Dairy Queen's open, right? And I. You brought up the McDonaldland Plate. I'm glad you brought up up the. They're outside of where? Where then? It's West St. Paul, Minnesota. There's a McDonald's that has a McDonald Land that I keep telling my kids I'm like I want them to, I want to sneak up there because it's all blockaded off. But we took a little train up to the top of it and then they had the whole McDonald land and it's still on the hill there. You know, it's there, but it's blocked off. And I'm like, I want that to come back so bad.
- [49:18]
C
I wish that location so that my good friend Tom Osman, who is a real. He's a McDonald and collector, he also runs this great site on vintage Twin Cities television, TC media, which is really interesting. But anyway, he tipped me off to that location and I did not explore up there on the hill, but I did see that cool mural that you can still see and all our friendly characters are still there. It says McDonaldland and sadly closed. But what an opportunity for the company. Company which for McDonald's. This, this, this is like nothing. This is a drop in the bucket, you know, I mean just create an experience there to replicate that feeling. The restaurant itself has been updated. Why not dial it back a couple of decades and just create. That would be written about and appear and national news shows. I, I don't think they fully appreciate this goes for all the brands, you know what they have. Dairy Queen is a good example of this too. I mean there are. They put a lot of pressure on legacy shops to update their signage or to update their buildings or to, to switch to the more modern grill and chill concept, you know, which I get. I mean, it's a business, you know, I mean, they're trying to maximize profits. But I do feel that exceptions need to be made because I see the vintage shops, certainly for Dairy Queen, but for other businesses as well as sort of like the brand ambassadors. I mean 98% of the shops can be grill and chill and make fabulous profits and maximize every square inch that's of real estate. But let those few hundred shops just be, you know, and let them be the face of. Let them be the face of the business.
- [51:02]
B
Yeah. So I mean we could probably talk about this forever. So then are there things like what are you hoping. I guess I should. Two couple questions. Like one, what are you hoping that people get out of this? Your book, right? Looking at your book, reading your book, like what is your kind of dream for this?
- [51:21]
C
Well, my hope is that it, it sort of like opens their eyes to the world around them. And by that I mean not necessarily planning their next road trip or booking a flight to so far flung place in the country, but really just start to pay attention to everything around You. Right. Because there are. In your own hometown, if you live in New York City or in a big, big city, you know, the places that you pass every single day, it's very easy to put on blinders. I mean, you stop sort of paying attention. But there are interesting historic places or places that have interesting stories that are all around you. And we tend to ignore them because we take them for granted. So if you can take off the blinders, so to speak, and put on what I like to call vitrologist spectacles and begin to look at things in a different way, I think life becomes a lot more interesting because every block that you're on is concealing and hiding Something that's going to capture your imaginations is concealing a potential experience or a human connection that you haven't made. Sometimes you pass like an old. Like an old hardware store or a barber shop or places that have been around for a long time. Have the courage to go in there and get a haircut there, even though that's not the place you normally go to. Or get your shoes shined at the shoe repair shop that's been around for 50, 50 years. You might meet somebody interesting or you might have a very special experience that you would not otherwise have. So I want people to just become sort of savvy connoisseurs of the world around them. And of course, the broader goal, of course, naturally, is to give people inspiration for travel and to see the world in a slightly different way. Because when people go. Go to Los Angeles or Dallas or Houston, I mean, these places generally tend not to be on their bucket list. I mean, they're looking for amusement parks or they're looking for museums or restaurants or fancy places to shop malls, that kind of thing. But this can add. You can still do all those things, but this can add sort of texture and cohesiveness to your experience and will probably, probably. You will probably, you know, the fancy restaurant or the amusement park that everybody goes to. Well, I mean, that'll be a good memory. But the thing you're probably going to talk about is like, oh, my God, we went to this. We went out in the desert and we found this little. It's called the World's Tiniest Buc Ees. And it's so bizarre. And it's not really a Buc Ees, you know, but, man, it's so cool. And then down the road we went to Marfa and Prada. And it's a little married for store, but it's an art project. This thing is insane. You have to see it. Those are the stories that you're going to sell. Those are the things that you're going to impart. Those are the things that you're going to get excited about or the person that you met who runs that old, you know, that old restaurant or diner, the kind of the, that experience that you're going to have there, that's, that's really more than anything else what's going to stick with you. So I want people to go out there and, and chase those experiences because it's just to going to make life far more interesting.
- [54:39]
B
And so, and my final question is I was like, so promotion, the book is out now. So what is like, are you, what are you working on? If there's anything new you're working on, anything with the book that you want people to know about, like what do you want to promote?
- [54:51]
C
Appreciate that. So I hope to be doing more events. I got, we did a couple of book events last year after it was released and then I got a little busy because I have a very intense day job. I'm a journalist working at a, at a television station in New York. So that keeps me plenty occupied. But I, I hope to do more events this year. One down in North Carolina, hopefully a couple somewhere in, in the heartland, one in Brooklyn later this year. So yeah, so I'm working on events and I will share that information. All you have to do is follow me on Instagram. It's my name, Rolando Pujol, and you can subscribe to my, my substack newsletter, the Retrologist, where I share information about what I'm doing, but also just like my general documentation. Right. And as far as what comes next, there is interest in me writing another book. Sort of noodling. We have a possible idea. I'm not quite ready to talk about it yet, but I think. And I'm also trying to decide whether I actually want to take it on because writing another book, it is a multi year. It is a very intense experience, a wonderful experience. I'm so glad, glad I did this. It is not an understatement to say that it has changed my life and it's been a pleasure and a privilege to get to do it. But I probably will do it because how can you not? Right. But I think it will be generally in the same vein of what I did in this book, but maybe more specific in terms of the subject matter. So lots more to come. Easiest way to keep up with me is just follow me on social media.
- [56:30]
B
Awesome, Rolando, thanks so much for talking with me again for New Books Network about the great American retro road trip, a celebration of roadside Americana. Thank you.
- [56:41]
C
Thank you.