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- [00:01]
Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today.
- [00:08]
Fiona Noble
Well, I'm letting go of the worry
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Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class.
- [00:12]
Fiona Noble
I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast.
- [00:16]
Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
And breathe.
- [00:17]
Fiona Noble
Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.
- [00:28]
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- [00:58]
Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
Experian
- [01:01]
Fiona Noble
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- [01:30]
Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
the New Books Network
- [01:34]
Fiona Noble
Hello, My name is Fiona Noble and I'm a lecturer in Spanish and Latin American Studies at the University of Stirling in Scotland in the uk. And I'm delighted to be hosting this episode of New Books Network today with the amazing Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez, who is professor in Film and Iberian Studies at Durham University in the uk. Santi is a dear colleague of mine, but also a dear friend and so I'm really looking forward to our conversation today. As I said already, Professor Fothernandet is a professor at Durham and is the author of several books and articles on contemporary Spanish cinema, various aspects of that field, and most recently he has published the book the monograph the Films of Vivek Luna with Manchester University Press. This book forms part of a really important series entitled Spanish and Latin American Filmmakers, which covers some of the most important filmmakers in the Spanish speaking world. And this addition to that series is a really important one for lots of reasons that we're going to unpack in more detail in this episode today. So welcome, Santi. It's a pleasure to have you here.
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Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
Thank you, Fiona. It's great to be here.
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Fiona Noble
Thanks so much. So we'll get started talking about your new book, the Films of Bigas Luna. And I think before we delve into some of the more detailed aspects of the book, could you tell us a little bit about the origins of this project? I know, because I know you well, that it's a project that has been very close to you and your work for some time. And I'm really looking forward to hearing a bit more about what it was that drove you to work on this particular filmmaker, Bigash Luna and his body of work. So, yeah, if you could tell us a little bit about that, that would be great.
- [03:26]
Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
Thank you so much for that. Great question, Fiona. So, yeah, I mean, this project, as you say, has been with me for a very, very, very long time. And in fact, when people ask me about, you know, why Vegas Luna? What is it about Vegas Luna that interested me to start with, or when I first came across one of his films, I'm often asked that question, and I actually wrote about it in the preface of the book, just in a way, because as you say this, it is important for me. There's always a personal connection. I always think that when is important to have that kind of motivation, which is different from being influenced by, you know, your personal view on the films or the quality of the films. That's something I don't. I don't really get into. But, you know, to answer your question, the first time I came across a big as Luna film was many, many, many years ago, when I was probably not even a teenager. And I caught the film Bilbao, a film that was made in 1978, but I watched about 10 years later or so. I caught it on SP, late at night when everybody was in bed. And I really enjoyed sort of waking up very, you know, in the middle of the night when everybody was in bed, and then catching those films that Spanish tv, the second channel, as it was called, and it's still called La Dos now, would show some of those films that were perhaps forbidden before, during the Franco dictatorship, or, you know, films that were made since, you know, during the transition, but that I wasn't allowed to watch as a minor, if you. But I still made a point of watching them. That's how I came across Bilbao. And I was drawn to that film for a number of reasons that we can unpack later, if you like. But Just to continue in a way the journey years after. So at the time that film was obviously known for its sexual depiction, is focused on a sex worker who works in Barcelona and a male voyeur that is obsessed with her. So there's lots to say about that film that we can get into later if you like. But later on in the early 90s of course, because released his very famous Iberian Portraits trilogy. And I do remember going to the cinema to watch Jamon Jamon with a friend and being completely obsessed with, you know, from Javier Bardem and Perelo Pegulu, the actors with so many aspects of the Spanish identity that at the time people were trying to quickly forget and move on. For as we joined the EU and the country was in a process of change. And I thought it was quite refreshing to see all of those images, you know, on the screen. And I became very interested in his films since then. I did want to do my PhD about Biggest Luna and my then supervisor Chris Perryman. Again I say this in the book, gave me the good advice to not do that for my Ph.D. because it would be a bit narrowing perhaps for somebody starting their career and say, you know, why don't you find an angle of maybe Vigas Lunas work, but that applies to other filmmakers. And I ended up doing my PhD on masculinities in European cinemas, focusing on Spain and the UK and British cinema. And Vigas Lunas was just a case study in there. But then I thought, you know, when I mature a little bit in my career, when I. When I'm able to do a bit more what I want, if you like, that's when I will go back to Viga Salona, who sadly passed away as I started this project back in 2013. So, you know, that's a long story already. But then the project started, you know, just before he passed away. Indeed I did edit a special issue of a journal for Spanish and Latin Americans in filmmakers. Then that was like 2016, then 2020. I did a collab in Spanish called Elegado Cinematografico de Vigas Luna. It's a multi authored collection with lots of colleagues writing about each of his films, which I thought it was important to have a collection that dealt not just with the typical, you know, the trilogy and a couple of more films, but actually the whole filmography. And as we can talk about this later, but I also met his daughter Betty Vigas while I was at UC Berkeley as a visiting scholar. She was living in San Francisco then as an art gallerist and we started what we thought was a one off that she had already prepared in San Francisco called the Vigas Luna Tribute at the Roxy Theatre. And more than 10 years later, we are still doing them. We've done more than 30 of them in I think it's 12 countries and over 30 cities. So, you know, that also became quite an important part. And I also have a podcast, as you know, Bigas Luna, with my colleague from the University of Costa Rica, Carolina Sanabrio. We've been doing that again for about six, seven years. So, yeah, it's been quite a journey. And the book I've been writing it, it took me a long time to write. I did write one of the chapters quite early on. And then the project did evolve through all of these events, through all of these conversations I had in the podcast. The screenings, obviously all the time that took also delayed me. But yeah, as a result, I think it's a much better book than it would have been a few years ago. And I'm very proud to have got to the end of it, but also in a shape that I was happy with.
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Fiona Noble
Thanks so much. It's so fascinating to hear about the journey that you've been on as you've approached this material from those kind of very early discoveries of his films to the more recent work that you've done. So thanks so much for sharing that. You've already given us a bit of information there about the research process, but is there anything that you would add to what you've said already about the process of embarking on this project and how you've approached that?
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Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
Yeah, so, I mean, the research process a little bit changed through the years because to start with a really, I mean, it would have been relatively easy and quick, if you like, to just project my own theories and interpretations of the films and just, you know, get the films. There are 16 of them. So that's in itself quite a bit of work to familiarize yourself with all of them. But it would have been quite, quite easy, if you like, or a lot easier than it was to just get the films. You know, I'm gonna project my own theories and ideas and the things that I read onto those films and that's. And it would have been a different book, but interesting in itself. But I decided the fact that he passed away in 2013 and that there weren't any books in English about Vegas Luna other than Abigail Lockscom's excellent book that includes a section on Vegas Luna. It's also about two other filmmakers. But I really thought that Bigas Luna Deserved a space in that series, you know, a big one, if you like. And of course, because Vegas Luna was also so badly treated by critics at the time who just focused on the very superficial aspects of his work, especially sexuality and national stereotypes, I thought there is an opportunity here to really do an in depth study. So I mean, the main criteria for me through the years and with the biggest Luna tribute and the more than 150 screenings that we did of his films around the world, was to watch the film. So that's. I know it's basic, but it's something that sometimes I think people forget because, you know, sometimes you read books and you think, but, you know, have they watched the film? You know, they watch it once a long time ago because, you know, they miss this and this and that, which is fine. But I thought, you know, for me it was really important to watch the films. Many times I was very lucky that I could watch them in different screens, including, you know, we mentioned American cinematic because it's a massive screen in the Aero Theater in Santa Monica. You know, that was so pleasure. Like, I didn't mean to stay for the whole retro. We did show nine, you know, had nine or 10 screenings. I watched them all from beginning to end because. Because it was just such a pleasure to watch those films on 35 and also, you know, on such a larger screen. So much detail, I learned so much in those screens. I took lots of notes. So, you know, watching the films where it was, of course, the basis of it, you know, but I also wanted to inform myself and educate myself, reading everything that had been written about these films that I could put my hands on. So this book, Sambika's Luna in Catalan, an early one, there's one in French, this one in Italian, there's quite a few in Spanish about different aspects of his work. Interviews with Vegas Luna, a whole book that is a long interview with actress Isabel Pisano and journalist Isabel Pisano, who passed away this year, by the way, this last year. Rest in peace. So all of that was also part of the process. Also watching interviews that he did over the years and he did a lot of interviews and there were lots of press conferences that were then reported in newspapers and so on. So that was part of it. Also all the reviews of the films at the time, particularly in Spain, that was something, you know, archival work in the Filmoteca a Spaniola and Catalana, which I did enjoy as well, going through methodically. You know, every time I wrote about a film, I say, how was it received? And you know, what did people say? And then, of course, the screenplays. I did read all the screenplays that are available in one way or another through the National Library or the National Film Library, and also sometimes through the family. You know, I was lucky to have contact with the family in recent years. And they did provide a lot of materials without interfering in the slightness in the process. Some of the films are adaptations, so I checked the original novels, of course, all the theory and my own analysis, and then applying each of those things to every film. So I had, like, a method towards the end where I was like, okay, I've read the reviews, I've read the screenplay. In some cases, I wrote more about the screenplay. There were significant differences that were useful for my argument. In some other cases, the screenplay didn't matter that much. So I was adapting and also to each of the films, but that was the process. And then at the end, writing Toland, editing and cutting, and even then I ended up with nearly 500 pages. But it could have been a lot longer, believe me.
- [13:19]
Fiona Noble
Thanks so much. Yeah. I think that is one of the strengths of the book for me, that you can see, not just from its size being such a lengthy book, but also, you know, in the analysis and in the discussion, the richness of that research process really comes through. I think. So, yeah. I think it's really refreshing to reflect on that process, actually, and to think about that kind of holistic approach to film. It's not just about the final text. It's about so much more than that, which you've just demonstrated so beautifully with that answer. So, yeah, thank you for sharing that. So if we move on to think about the structure of the book, then one of the things that struck me when I was reading this was you emphasized in the introduction the significance of dualities and trilogies, in particular in the work of the Garcellona itself. And you talk about how that kind of comes through, too, for you in the structuring of the book. So could you tell us a bit more about this aspect of his work and how it influenced you and the way that you structured this material?
- [14:26]
Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
Yes. Thank you, Fiona. So one of the things that I was doing, I mentioned before, was to read, you know, interviews with Vegas Luna. And one thing that I discovered is that, of course, he liked to talk a lot about the films when, you know, he was often interviewed when, you know, the shooting started, and so on and so forth. And he often did advertise trilogies that then never happens for various reasons. Production, casting, whatever. All the filmmakers ended up doing, you know, a certain film, such as it was the case with Carmen, that Vicente Aranda ended up doing. I mean, from the start, I wanted to group the films in ways that, you know, that combined the thematic and the chronological, which it was actually easier to achieve than it could seem. So I didn't really, you know, the structure that you see in the book is the original structure that I conceived years and years ago. And as I said, I wanted a balance between, you know, each film having its own section. But I did not want to repeat what we did in the Spanish language book, which is like, oh, each film has a separate chapter, because, you know, that that was great for that book, but, you know, different authors writing about different films. But in this case, I really did want to have, you know, a more logical structure based around argument, among other things. But at the same time, I did want people to be able to consult the specific films if they wanted to. Imagine in a university setting, if you're studying E. I don't know, the Chambermaid of the Titanic, you want to go and read that chapter or Jamon Hamon or whatever it is. So I wanted to keep that separation between the films, even though I refer and cross reference the films throughout the book, which is one of the strengths of the work of Vigas Luna. That is self referential and that allowed me to create a lot of connections. So Vigas Luna really only has one trilogy, which is the Iberian Portraits trilogy, Hamon Khamon, Golden Bolts and the Titanemun. That is the only trilogy in the early 90s. Shortly after that, he did advertise another trilogy that wanted to, in a way, take advantage of the success of that first trilogy. And it was a Mediterranean trilogy. The first one was focused more on men, this would be more focused on women. So that would include Bambola, Chambermaid of the Titanic and originally Carmen. Then I could argue, and I do argue to an extent, that Olaverion could be part of that trilogy, partly because of the focus on women and art and storytelling and so on. And then, you know, there was an earlier attempt at a trilogy, which I don't think it was necessarily on purpose, but many critics see early films such as Bilbao Caniche and Angustia Anguish as a trilogy, a dark trilogy. He often talked about this as well. That was more sort of after the films were completed, like he looked back and felt, you know, that was like my dark trilogy with very sort of claustrophobic spaces, dark scenes and so on and so forth, you know, close ups and so on. That Other people say, oh, you know, I mean, that trilogy would work as a trilogy because of the protagonist role as well, of Angel Jove, for example, among other things, and you know, the sort of technical team that work together in those films. But some of the people even group Bilbao and Caniche, as I do as well, with Lola, and in fact a recent box set and also a very old box set in Spain, group those three films as so Feroti trilogy. So, you know, you could think about that as well. So there's different options. But in the end I ended up sort of coming up with a combination of the films that could be trilogies or paired in specific ways, but also thematically interesting. So, you know, that's why I start with the earlier films, starting with the first one, Tatuaje, and that fascination with the body, you know, the film starts with a dead body found in the Barceloneta. And then I thought in that early period there were a couple of other films, certainly Reborn, which is focused on an Italian woman who has stigmata and you know, the body and, you know, bodily fluids are again so important. And of course Anguish, which is about a man who removes the eyes of people in the cinema. So, you know, the body was so intense in that trilogy. It's not really a trilogy, but in those three films that I thought would work well also because they were early on then I thought, you know, another aspect that really characterizes early Vigas Luna film is the taboos, the sexual taboos. So that of course Vilbao Caniccia had to be there, but I grew them with later films. Lola, so vilbao canica, late 70s, Lola is 80s. And then of course La Cidades de Ages of Lulu, the adaptation of Almudena Grandes's novel, which I thought worked really well, different approaches to. To sexuality. You know, the early films, as I said before, were very dark. There's a lot more light in Lola and potentially La Salles de Lulu as well. But I thought that worked well to discuss eroticism. So, you know, moving on from the slashed body, if you like, to the eroticized and objectified body, then the trilogies focus more on gender and national identity. The Iberian Portraits trilogy in chapter three, the Mediterranean so called Trilogy, which many people corrected us in the podcast, you know, people who made the films, we never thought about Trilogy. Well, Bigasunta did say that when he launched it, but anyway, those three that go together because of the Mediterranean light, the focus on women, and that's why I added Volaberunt as well. Which chronologically follows, sorry, Son de Mar, Sons of the Sea, that follows chronological films. And then the last chapter is actually a trilogy that was unfinished about women and success, which includes My Name is Juani and Didi Hollywood. So that's how I grouped it. But, you know, options and possibilities are plentiful because we could do it chronologically, separately by each film. But that's what I did to make sure that every film was included. And I felt that, you know, talking about these courses of the body, human and non human, by the way, in the first chapter, the neuroticism, the national identities that were in the Mediterranean, then finally women and success and the stardom and so on, worked well because it covered quite a lot of the interests of Vegas Luna and the main themes of the filmography, and at the same time respects, to some extent, the chronological order. I mean, one of the things I learned with the podcast, talking to people that made those films is that. And reading about them is that the chronological order in the end doesn't matter as much. Of course, there's a historical context that is very important for me, and it is in the book, and that matters a lot. But other than that, some films were made later because of the budget. So, for example, the famous example is Anguish. It should have really followed Reborn. And, you know, it was conceived in the US Like Reborn was Reborn was shot in the us, Anguish was shot later back in Spain. But, you know, in the middle of that, we have Lola, which is much closer to the Iberian Portraits trilogy. But, you know, because Una was moving on towards more kind of open spaces, more light, more color. But, yeah, that happen in that way because of budget and because we're now moving back to Spain after a few years in the US and so on. So, yeah, that's how I thought it works. And I'm quite happy with the way in which the structure works as it is now. I couldn't imagine the booking structure differently. I'm sure there's many possibilities, but that structure really worked for me.
- [22:09]
Fiona Noble
Thanks so much. That's so fascinating to hear about that process and how that came together. So let's move into the book in more detail now that you've given us that really comprehensive overview of how it fits together. And I think one of the things I really liked about how you open this book is that you start the book with a citation from the filmmaker himself about what his work offers. So I'm just going to quote that. So the quote is, so what is the main contribution of my cinema? The joy of Life. And I think that really sets the tone for what you then unpack over the course of the book. But I wonder if you could expand on the significance of this idea both for his work in general and for your book in particular, and why you chose that particular citation as a kind of starting point for this study.
- [23:00]
Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
Yes, so that citation was always there at the top of my notes alongside all the citations. That really inspired me. I mean one, remember I was writing this book for a long time, so in the middle of the 2000 and tens, of course we had Brexit here, which affected me quite a lot, sort of sentimentally apart from practically after so many years here as a European person. It was difficult. And one way in which I meant to open the book for a long time, right until the end almost, was with a quote where Bigas Luna said he was a vocationally European. So un europeo vocacional, sort of by conviction almost. And I thought that was, you know, for a long time. That's how wanted to open the book. Because that to me expressed his view on not so much Spain and France, but Portugal, but Iberian identities, Mediterranean identities, this kind of cross border cultural understanding of national identity. And I thought that was a nice way to sum that up. But as time went by and reading, talking with Vigas Lunas, friends, family, people who worked with him, something that kept coming up that really fascinated me. Even though, you know, the book is not a biography of Vegas Luna. I'm not really interested in the book about his life or his events. But you know, as I always say, it's kind of nice after investing all this time and passion on a filmmaker, to know that he was actually a very nice person, that everybody who worked with him, you know, loved him and you know, every actor that worked with him and you know, sound designer, everyone. Absolutely. That's why they say yes to the podcast, because they're always happy to talk about him. And he was very much a charge, we say in Spanish, a vividor. He lived life to the full. He was a disfruton, somebody who enjoys life. That's how people characterize him when they come to the podcast, everyone, 100% of people. And I think that was that quotation of, you know, what is this? You know, what is the point of this? Which is a question that I also kept asking myself, you know, why am I doing this podcast? Why am I doing all these events, you know, contacting so many cinemas, so many guests for the podcast and for the films, you know, traveling, you know, it's a Huge effort, you know, writing in the book, doing the research. And I thought, you know, this really summed up what. What his films are about, which is about the joy of life and about living. You know, this emphasis on food, sex, celebrity, excess sensations, viscerality. So, you know, I really came to terms with, you know, let's leave the European, you know, as part of the book. But actually, this is much more important because, you know, films are to be taken seriously. You know, this is an academic research book. But it was also pleasure. You know, it's a pleasure to watch the films, to share with people, to think about them, to write about them, and in a way to switch off from the realities, you know, which sometimes can be so hard as, you know, the times we're living through right now and just going back to the films and seeing how the films really are, about the joy of life and about living and about eating and about having relationships, friendships and so on. So I found a lot of comfort in the films themselves and in the work about the film. And it felt close to my heart in terms of the process of writing the book as well. That really provided a lot of comfort for me at some difficult times that I personally experienced as well through the making of that book. Because what happens is when you spend a decade writing a project, you said, a lot of things happen, people die, some friendships end, and so on and so forth. So that was, for me, sort of going back to the films and to the book was inspiring to read his attitude to life and to discuss it with people who work with him. So I thought, as you say, that was a nice way to sum up the entire book and set the tone before we start, you know, this is what the book is about. It's about living.
- [26:58]
Fiona Noble
Amazing. Thank you so much. And actually, when you discuss this citation that we've just talked about that opens the book that comes before the introduction. You note that this quote came from a response by Bigas to what you call, and I'm quoting you from this book here, a very irritating question that he was often asked in interviews and so on about his fixation on female bodies. So I wondered if you could tell us a little bit more about the role of the female body or female bodies in his works and how do you unpack this element of his filmography? Because I think it's probably one of the aspects that has been received, perhaps in more problematic ways from critical or academic respondents. So, yeah, could you tell us a bit more about how you approach that aspect of his filmography in the Book.
- [27:57]
Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
Yeah. So, I mean, that's a very good question, Fiora. Thank you. Because it does come from that original quotation. It's interesting, isn't it, that that opening is about the most controversial part of his work, and yet the answer is so the opposite. It's about, let's enjoy life. So let's start with that. I mean, big as Luna was, was, to my knowledge, a heterosexual man, certainly, you know, his relationships were with women. And clearly you can see through the films that he absolutely loved, adored women. You know, seeing this from the perspective of somebody like me, you know, who is more interested in men, this is, I think, you know, if I made films, would my lens focus more on men? And he probably would, you know, because, you know, again, it's about enjoying life, and that doesn't mean that you are necessarily objectifying, but you are also celebrating, you know. So when I say irritating question, he did find irritating, because that was. He said himself in interviews that I read, because he kept being asked that. And he always responded in a way that I thought was very nice and not at all defensive, which was, you know, this is part of living. Sex is part of life. And I think one of the surprises in my book for people who read it, and some people may be very surprised about the way in which women are a crucial part of the creative process of his film. So big as Luna surrounded himself by women, his casting director of every film is a woman consultura. The writers, the main writers that work with him. Kuka Canals, who wrote with him five of the films, including the full Iberian Portraits trilogy. Carmen Chavez, who wrote the last two films. My Name is Juan and Didi Holland, they are women. A lot of the team are women. And what I find also fascinating. And again, perhaps thinking from a more queer perspective, because believe it or not, there is room in his films for a queer reading, which is also in the book. But the focus on men and male bodies is also quite, I'm not going to say sequel, because that would be inaccurate, but there's a lot of emphasis on men and male bodies as well. It depends who you want to focus on. So you may choose to focus on, you know, the sexuality, particularly in the early films of women, but you could also think, you know, Angel Jove is, you know, there's an obsessive fixation on him as a man, as a character. You know, he appears in quite a lot of films, even in La Salles de Lulu is a cameo, but an important cameo there, you know, never mind. Javier Bardem, who launched his Career with Big as Luna in Ages of Lulu and then Jamon Jamon and Where was the other? But this, for me, much better examples, even in terms of the sexualization of male bodies, such as Jorge Perugo Ria, who we interviewed for the podcast in Bambola. I mean, the shower scene is just unbelievable, right? The sexual energy in there is comparable to the attention that is paid to Valeria Marini, who plays Bambola, even though the narrative, there's problematic aspects of it, and so on and so forth. And then, of course, Olivier Martinez in Chamber Made of the Titanic. I mean, that scene when he's having a bath, I think that's one of the more homoerotic things I've ever witnessed. And even Dani Martin in Joshua La Juani. My name is Juani. You know, I mean, we can talk about this a little bit later if we discuss masculinities. But the interest for Vigas Luna about the female bodies is again, connected to the idea of life, the beginning of life. So, you know, women for him, and he wrote and talked about this frequent, were the beginning and the end, you know, so he had these paintings. Of course, Vigasmina was an artist, something probably won't have time to talk about, at least not in depth today. And I do touch on the art and, you know, his production beyond film a little bit, but not as much as I would like to, because there's only so much you can write. But a lot of his famous paintings are, you know, the big female bodies and particularly female genitalia and the idea of. Of the, you know, the vagina, sort of the beginning of life, but also shaped as an eye. And, you know, how we, you know, if we come out through there, which not everybody does, we know, but does the idea that the first thing you see does the first shape you see, but also is similar to the eye, so it's connected to cinema and how when you die, you close your eyes. So that's also. This is the first and the last shape that you see. So, you know, there's quite a lot of depth in there if you think about breasts as well. So, you know, female breasts and, you know, most famously perhaps La Tete, La Luna, the Tita and the Moon, where, you know, there's such a hysterical but also touching depiction of breastfeeding, you know, and milk, which is again, connected to the fluids like blood and sweat and, you know, that were so important and other sexual fluids in his filmography. I find the image of the Elata Trice, that is one of the mythical figures that he keeps returning to which is these mythical women that would donate their milk to the Mediterranean Sea that appear in so many video arts. But also, you know, perhaps the best example is La Tete La Luna, but also some art performances that he did in Rome with an actress and so on and so forth, and some of his paintings and drawings. So this idea that, you know, breast milk is, you know, female breasts are partly sexual, but they are also nurturing. And this, you know, it's also about motherhood and. And the female body as very powerful. So I do see that the sort of the gaze in the films is very heterosexual male. That's undeniable, but in a way that reflects who he was. But it's a lot more complex than it may appear. And I think that's something that I try to explain in the book.
- [33:56]
Fiona Noble
Thank you so much. That was really insightful and really fascinating. And I know that we could probably talk. Talk at length about a lot of the issues that you've raised there, but I know for interest of time, we should probably move on and talk about other aspects of the book which are equally as fascinating. So I was really intrigued and impressed and in awe of the way in which you incorporate a range of diverse theoretical frameworks and approaches in the book alongside all the other processes that you've highlighted already in your discussion. Discussion. So we will talk about this, I guess, as we move through our discussion, but one of the things that you highlight in this regard is big as Nona's interest in the intersection of basic and modern filmmaking technologies, as well as the influence of classical and contemporary art, literature, popular culture in his work, and his fascination with everyday objects. So it's a really kind of rich body of work that you draw on and equally your analysis benefits from that, I think, as well. You also talk about the tactile and visceral quality of his films, which you've touched on already, as well as the sensual and sensorial appeal of his work more broadly. So, yeah, I'd just really love to hear a bit more about the different theoretical approaches that you take in the book and why some of these are important to you in approaching his oeuvre. I know you can't probably cover all of these aspects I've highlighted here, but please do share what you can.
- [35:24]
Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
Okay, thank you so much for that, Fiona. So I'll pick on some of the. The aspects that you mentioned, starting perhaps with the idea of the technological and the organic and the juxtaposition of the two, which there are many, many examples. Again, as I said before, my strategy and my methodology was very much going back to the films. And this is something that once you start noticing it, you can stop. So, for example, thinking about in Bilbao, you know, the famous image of the market fish and, you know, sort of sucking a process frankfurter in that film, which then Leo, the protagonist played by Angel Giove, photographs, you know, so mixing again, you know, the processed food with the organic food. I know that image is meant to represent all the things such as, you know, the sort of the oral sex that cannot be represented in the film. So he does that inspired by his encounter with the sex worker with Bilbao, but also the fact that he's photographing all of these images. We see him constantly. His voyeurism is emphasized by the use of technology, but also his obsession with the radio and so on and so forth. We need to remember that big as Luna was a furniture designer interested very much in the world of advertising and design. And that's where. That's how he met Cuca Canals, Rodevi and Portrait studio, as I said earlier. And this obsession continues throughout from the very first film where we, Barcelona and Amsterdam are represented in Tatuaje, in Tattoo through the different billboards in both cities and the contrast between the two, but through to the billboards that we see in Didi Hollywood, in the end, in Miami and in la. But of course, course, so many examples in between. Perhaps the most famous one being the Osborne bullion itself in Hamon. Hamon. But there are millions of examples, and maybe that's an exaggeration, but many, many examples. This is also a reflection in Reborn, where the center of attention is this Italian woman who has a stigmata. But then how they move her to the States, united us to create a sort of media phenomenon out of her. And how something as carnal as having the stigmata and the blood becomes turn into posters and into merchandise. And through again the use of technology, printing and photography and so on and so forth. The important communication of the body in the Hole, eBay and Portraits Trilogy in these examples that are very visual in Pudel, in Canice as well, where we see the elderly aunt Lina dying. And in the operation you see the intestines. And that's compared with the pool cleaning system after she dies and the brothers inherit her money. So again, the carnal and the technological. I mean, this is something that fascinated him. In the chambermaid of the Titanic, for example, Marie's photograph is tackled. So, you know, it is a product of technology. But then the whole film is about how that photograph comes to life through touch and through tears and through, you know, grease, if you like, on the image from which becomes, you know, touch and used. Even in. So in Sons of the Sea, I found it fascinating how we see a little homage to Bilbao, a little Easter egg there where, you know, when Ulysses opens the fridge and he has the. The fish from the market right next to Coke cans, which is of course, then a reference to Jamon. Jamon and the two films mixed in there. But again, the technological, the mass produced and the organic, in this case, represented by the fish. And this could be applied also to other aspects that you mentioned. For example, the classic and the contemporary, the breaking up of hierarchies in culture. So we have the classical music with the pop music in many films. For example, Sons of the Seas is another example where we have a litigio, the myths, the Greco Roman myths mixed with contemporary music and so on. All the paintings of Golia on the one hand, next to Eduard Hoppa or Warhol in Avian Portraits Trilogy and in other films. So those are some of the examples.
- [39:51]
Fiona Noble
Ev Great, thank you so much. And yeah, as well as kind of this broader interest in the technological and how that coincides with. Or jars with the corporeal or the carnal, there is a particular emphasis, isn't there, on film cinema and the idea of the cinematic gaze, which you've already touched on in some of your responses so far. But I wonder if you could expand on this idea and give us some more examples of where we see this both in your book and in Vegas Luna's filmography as well.
- [40:23]
Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
Thank you, Finos. So that's another recurring film in Big As Luna, the idea of watching film and, you know, the meta cinema, if you like. Perhaps the best example would be Anguish, where we have, you know, different layers of films, up to four, even if we count ourselves as spectators of the finished product that, you know, the final credits make us reflect on whether if we were watching the film in the cinema, whether we are part of the experiment as well. And maybe that's the point of horror, isn't it? That's something that you see in the films, like the spectators in the film within the film see that that actually happens to them and something horrible could happen to us as well. Watching Angustia, you know, the final film, but also, you know, the chambermaid of the Titanic, really reflects on the idea of the storytelling. We could apply that to multiple films, such as La Tetella, Luna Reborn, and of course, the Last to are set in the film industry. So you Know, we have films within films in that, you know, Didi, for example. In Didi, Hollywood is an actress, as is Juani. So they are making films. So, you know, you see sort of the behind the scenes in Reborn, as I said before, you know, how it's not a film, but it's more in the religious context of the tele preachers. But how they can, and this is so relevant today, you know, with everything that is happening in the the U.S. for example, with certain people becoming sort of stars these days through social media and so on and streaming, but how we can turn somebody into a sort of saintly figure or a sort of major celebrity also in religion, in different aspects. So that would be in the case of Reborn, but this idea of stardom was something and celebrity that really concerned him most explicitly in the last Unfinished Trilogy. But really, even if we think about Bola Verund and, you know, the idea of Goya as a painter and the reflection on his character, but also his historical context and even the majas of the paintings, you know, the story behind them, or even, you know, Ulysses in San de Mar and, you know, the myths in the film. So this is really an important aspect of his films. But what I find fascinating, Fiona, about the films of Hierony, in this particular aspect of gazing and looking at the film and being part of it, is that, of course, one of the main arguments in the films, going back to the theoretical framework, is the hapticity of these films and how the films draw you in through a clear emphasis on the senses. So it's not just about looking and hearing, which are two very important senses in the entire filmography of Igas Luna that he calls attention to explicitly, because there's a lot of emphasis on the act of taking photographs, as we said before, or watching, peeking through windows and so on. But also, you know, the act of telling stories, the act of going to the cinema. But even in Bolaben, you know, the act of painting and you know, where the film starts in the Prado Museum, and then it goes back, you know, somebody looks at the painting of the Majas and then we go into the story behind the creation of the Majas. So, you know, the act of creation, because he was a creator and artist, is something that really fascinated him. And the contrast that I find, you know, really interesting is that on the one hand, the films draw you in through that viscerality, through the emphasis on the senses, and at the same time there's some distancing, because you are constantly reminded that as one of the spectators in one of the films, in the films in Anguish tells her friend, you know, none of this is really real. What you're seeing is not real. So, you know, there's a tension perhaps between trying to draw you in and forget about the reality and be part of the world of the fiction of the film and yet remind you constantly that this is a story and it's not real. So that's also part of my theoretical approach to the book, actually, is one of the threads.
- [44:25]
Fiona Noble
That's great. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I think actually I'm going to kind of pick up on a couple. Couple of different threads there that you've given us and that you've already been talking about throughout your responses, and that is the importance of food in his films and in your analysis as well. You know, there are obviously the references from Hamon Khamon, which is perhaps the one that springs first to mind. But you do also talk about other moments where food is really important. You know, the paella and tatuaje pas pastra pizza and sausage and bambola milk and Angustia Alteluna. You've already talked about that as well, obviously. So, yeah, that link between food, gastronomy and sex is really important in his work, and that sort of connects with this idea of hapticity and the senses that you were just talking about there. But it's not just about sex, is it? It's also about the link between food and national identity. So I wonder if you could expand a little bit on the significance of food in his work and how you approach that in the book.
- [45:31]
Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
That's a very important question, Fiona. That is also, as you say, so important in Big As Luna. And in fact, many authors who have written about his work have already written wonderful things about this, including Abigail Loxham in the book that I mentioned before, Carolina Sanabria and Gonzalo Paves in their respective books on Vegas Luna, which I strongly recommend. They are both close collaborators, all three of them, close collaborators and friends. And of course, my book doesn't ignore all of those writings. It enters in very detailed conversation with them. I guess, as you say, one of these two aspects that keep coming up in these writings and that people notice in lectures and so on. Even students are quite interested in this. On the one hand, as you said, the connection between food and sex and the idea of devouring the other and like eating food. On the other hand, we have the, you know, the haptic element that we already discussed and how this is part of a narrative that is, you know, the joy of living that we talked about before. You know, food being one of the pleasures in life. So, you know, those two aspects are really important. And also the aspect that you mentioned about national identity and how national identity is not about the country, as we said before, but more about the culture and the country. Culture has an important element in the gastronomy. And he really makes. I mean, the foods, the films are defined by the food that you could almost eat. Because Luna said that one of the biggest compliments that anyone ever gave him was in the Venice Film Festival when they presented Jamon Hamon. And somebody from the press said, your film could be eaten. And he said, that's like the biggest compliment anyone could ever give me. Excuse me, but for me, what I add that is different or new in a way, to these reflections that to some extent already stay there in the discourse of Vigas, Luna is the deep reflection from the very first film to the last, about ecology. And this could be perhaps surprising. And thinking about Vegas Luna and what we said before, the superficial approaches to his film from people who haven't studied them, perhaps, or just notice this mystery. Some critics as well, not just in Spain, but especially, I would say, well, you know, the sexuality and you know, this very cliche, you know, objectification of the female body. But, you know, there's a deep reflection on animal rights, I think, from the very first film to the last. And again, it's something that you need to unpack when you watch the films. It starts with Tatuaje, you know, we do see the fish, you know, being cut. And, you know, in Lola, we see. See a lobster being grilled almost alive. At the same time, Kaniche we have, which is a film from 1979. So that's that far back when animals, pets in this case, are treated like humans and the humans become more animals. And then Pablito, the pig in Jamon Jamon is treated as a baby, but then is eaten. So of course, in Bilbao, without giving any spoilers, what happens with the pigs and how we see them as. As long slotted really close up in a very unpleasant way. But it's about thinking about where the food comes from, but also why we treat some animals. This is something I develop in chapter two, as pets, our cats or dogs, and we buy them things. In Kaniche, of course, there's a whole cemetery just for pets and so on and so forth. And then on the other hand, we brutalize pigs or other animals, like the goats in Bambala, which is another wonderful example on the one hand, we have the baby goats, and then goats are being slaughtered by their mother. So perhaps because I love animals, this is something that, to me was very obvious from the start. And it's actually one of the things that I found most interesting because it's in every film and it is connected to food. And when we meat, which I personally don't eat, but you know what happenswhat's behind this. But what I also find interesting is the cultural reflection. So going back to gastronomy and cultural identity, I'll just finish this with an example from Lola, which is a film. We just recorded the podcast episode on that. That's why it's fresh in my mind. But there's a wonderful scene in a restaurant where we see, on the one hand, the two couples that are dining together eating seafood, and also the lobster being fried in an earlier scene, sort of alive fried, but grilled. And then there's a discussion on the. One of the things the film does is to contrast Europe, northern Europe, and in particular France, with Spain. And it seems that Spain is all the brutality, all the brutalismo Iberico. And yet they talk about pate during dinner and they say, oh, it's best not to talk about it. We don't need to know exactly where the food comes from. Which is, of course, one of the character says, on the contrary, we should know exactly where food comes from. So for me, that is a good example of that discourse. And it's a film from 1986.
- [50:45]
Fiona Noble
Thanks so much. As you say, it anticipates many of the conversations that we're having now about sustainability and approaches to life and I guess, about life more broadly as well as you talk about with the opening quotation. Okay, I've got a few kind of more reflective questions, I think now, thinking about the book holistically and your process over the last decade or so that you've been working on this. So I'm just really intrigued to know what's your favourite chapter of the book and why?
- [51:14]
Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
Well, that would be difficult to choose. I mean, different people will hopefully have different chapters that they like. I think the one that people will read the most will probably be the third one, which is about the Iberian Portrait trilogy. Of course, I am close to that chapter because I wrote about two of those films before Hamon, Hamon and Gold involves the writing on La Tetella Luna. I started from scratch for this book, even though I've taught that film many, many times. Obviously, that's a very important chapter. It's a Very important trilogy. This is what we show in the Vegas Luna tribute as our main sort of offer in those retrospectives. So that chapter, there's so many layers, so much time that was invested in it that I think is an important chapter. Chapter. But you know, in a way, in contrast to what I've just said, to me, what this book does is to offer context to Big as Luna, beyond what everybody thinks and teaches and talks about, which is that trilogy. So we'd like to draw attention away, far away from that chapter, regardless of the investment, the time that I put in it, and all the interest of the films I themselves to other work. And I think personally, in a separate interview that I did with Carolina Sanabria for the Vigas Luna podcast, we talked about this and I said, you know, the first chapter was for me, it's my personal favorite, mostly because I went back to those early films. You know, the first film, Tatuaje, that was just re released recently and restored was presented. Actually I had the pleasure of presenting it at the San Sebastian Film Festival a couple of years ago in the. In the sort of restored version. And there's a lot of interest in that film. I mean, for me the historical context is very important. So going back to Tatuaje reborn and anguish, Anguish less so because so many people wrote about that film, but not many people wrote about Tatuaje or reborn and going back to that period of Spanish history, you know, and I always say, and one of the things I talk about in the film is how interesting the filmography of Vigas Luna is to understand recent Spanish history. Because as it happens, you know, Tattoo is finished, released a bit later because of the world of censorship being still active. But you know, just the year after Franco, you know, he was literally making Tattoo aj as Franco was dying. And then we have the transition with all the taboo breaking films. Then we have the films that deal with national identity at the time when Spain has just joined Europe and we had the 1992 events with the Olympics in Barcelona, the Expo Seville, you know, when the IBM portrait studio is launched, then you know, the whole reflection on the MeToo movement and even the bric crisis that is anticipated in Golden Balls. So for me, that historical context to the films and the social commentary is fascinating. And going back to those earlier films for me was incredibly pleasurable, partly because it was the last chapter I wrote so I could see the light at the end of a very long tunnel. But at the same time, because, you know, I just, I just enj Enjoyed going back to my Childhood, really, in a way. And that period, the early 80s, and what was how people receive the film. So many anecdotes that made me laugh out loud here at home in the middle of the night when I was writing. Because, you know, there's a certain nostalgia for me involved in that, but also some naivety and just seeing how different Spanish society was then to what is now, and how brave he was to make those films that could not really be made to. You know, I think that's one of the reflections as well in the book that, you know, we seem to have gone back and some of these films, they need all sorts of warnings and context. That's why I like to go and present the films when we show them, because they do need a lot of context. I think those films will come back. You know, this, as I say, that Lucky was recently restored. We had that box set of Canice Bilbao and Lola that I had the pleasure of participating in the extras for France. There's a new one coming out this year in the US that I. I also participated in with Ila Uncanice. So I think that, you know, there will be a revival of the early films, partly because we are remembering 50 years of democracy in Spain. And as I say, the Bigas Luna filmography really follows that Spanish recent history. In Lola, going back to Lola, for example, which I think is a film that people don't talk about, but it's a really important film that was released the year Spain joined the eu. And there's this whole discourse about France, you know, and about Paris, where the film is partly set, and, you know, the differences between the two and how those differences are diluted as we move on. On. So, yeah, there's lots, lots and lots to say about each of the chapters, but to answer your question, I mean, the first chapter for me was also fascinating in terms of theory and how many capsules and time capsules we have there, but also how those films anticipate discourses of the body, sexuality, national identity. All of that is already there. Tatuaj is set in Barcelona, but partly in Amsterdam. So that contrast between northern and southern Europe is already there and is part of the discourse of the film. And Iberia, you know, different characters come from different parts of Spain, from Galicia, you know, Carballo coming from Lugo, like me, you know, and then, you know, we have other characters that are referred to because they are from Murcia or they are from, you know, different parts of Spain. So I think, you know, there's so much in that first Chapter that I think it would be my favorite, to be honest with you. Yes.
- [56:42]
Fiona Noble
Thanks so much. That's really insightful. Continuing with personal reflections and perhaps the inverse of that previous question. Which chapter was the most challenging to write and. And why?
- [56:52]
Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
Well, that would be sort of going to reflective and also almost personal. You know, as I said before, when you write a book for so many years, so many things happen. So I mean, chapter four for me was quite challenging. And it's. I wouldn't like to sort of put one chapter before the other for me is almost the more detailed, you know, chapter four and the more layered. And it's partly because I spent so long writing that chapter, I got stuck with it partly for personal reasons that I alluded to before my mom passing away, for example, when I was actually almost finishing the first draft of the book. And then I just stopped on this and I found it difficult to go back to this chapter. And I had this last. The first chapter to write and then I got stuck a little bit on this one. So it took me a long time. But for that reason, I'm also quite fond of it actually, because there were personal challenges to it. But also includes four films. It's quite a long chapter. And there was so much during this period because, you know, there had been the whole success of the Iberian Portraits trilogy. And then, you know, in the second half of the 90s, there's this other sort of trilogy and then Saint Nema, which is also included in that chapter. And the amount of materials, I mean, three of those films are adapted. So I had to really go back to the novels then that wasn't particularly productive to discuss the differences or so. But I still. You read the novels, you read the screenplays, you read the reviews, as I said before, and it was just very laborious. More than challenging was just really, really laborious. That chapter. I also wanted to do something special, bring back Bambola that I had written about before. But you know, going back to. To the original story, which was co written by Vigas Luna and Cesare Fragoni, and how I found a character that was missing in the film in the National Library doing this research. So I did enjoy writing that chapter a lot, but it was challenging both for the amount of materials that I had and particularly the reviews. There were so many and some of them were not very positive, for example, about Bambola, but also the time of my life when I was writing this. It was a bit of a setback at the time, but as a result, it's the chapter that I Worked on the most, I would think. Hope people enjoy it.
- [59:14]
Fiona Noble
Thank you so much. I think it's probably obvious at this point who will find this book useful, given how much detail you've gone into already in your responses. But who would you recommend this book to and why? Who do you think this book will back benefit?
- [59:30]
Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
That's an excellent question, Fiona, and one that people don't often ask. And thank you for asking it because it's the kind of thing that I guess publishers in a way, ask you to think about and to talk about in the questionnaires. But of course. So the main target of this book in terms of readership would be those who study Spanish cinema from my point of view, at any level. So it could be undergraduates, it could be postgraduates, it could be academics. I think the pitch of this book is sort of academic, so it would be there's quite a lot of theory, quite a lot of history, quite a lot of analysis. So my writing style is accessible, so anyone potentially could read it and follow it. But it's also full of references and things like that. So I think the book is scholarly and that's the readership I had in mind mostly. But I hope that this book will allow people to rediscover to discover Vegas Luna by moving away from just the Central Tree trilogy of Iberian portraits and discovering earlier films like Lola that we talked about before or, you know, Reborn or Tatuaje. And I think, you know, my aim with this book is not to have a last word or to be the definitive study of Vigas Luna. Obviously it's quite a long study and, you know, in depth study, but my point really is to open new conversations and to inspire younger people to think about these films as in fact they are. Because, you know, one of the advantages of doing the Vigas Lulu attribute is that, you know, I see a lot of young people coming to the films and being interested in the. Particularly the early work, actually. So, you know, my hope is that alongside all the projects that I'm doing with the podcast with Carolina and you know, the biggest attribute with Betty, we bring the films of Bigas Luna and put him in the place that I think his work deserves because, you know, Bigas Luna for me is up there at the level of many Spanish artists and even painters and so on that, you know, deserve a lot of attention. There are, you know, crucial for a recent history and a recent cultural history. And my aim is really to reach as many people as possible. As I said before, you can read the book as a whole if you have the time. That's what I would love for people to do because it would allow a better understanding with all the cross referencing. But you can also dip in and out if you want to study a specific film in particular. But I would like to make people curious. So the more people that approach it from different backgrounds, different ways of walking walks of life, the better. And I just hope, as I say, that many younger generations will be intrigued by these films and help them discover the films that some of them are more available in the Spanish market, perhaps through platforms like Flixole, but not so much in the international market. I'm very pleased that Criterion bought quite a lot of figures, Lunas films, and they are advertising them quite heavily. They had more recent films, most, but there's five or six that they bought. So including the trilogy, but also Sonnemar and others, Bola Veron, I think the Chambermaid. So, you know, there's a chance that these films would recover some of the success that they had at the time, but that deserve to be timeless in a way.
- [62:50]
Fiona Noble
That's great. Thank you so much. And it's really apt that you've mentioned there the podcast and the biggest Luna tribute series as well. I wondered if you could just tell us a bit more about the relevance and connections between the book and these other related projects that you've been working on. Because I think that actually it may be that those allow for those not within an academic context to access this work of Begas Luna perhaps as well, because there's different approaches, aren't there, within those different projects as well, the podcast and the tribute series. So could you tell us a little bit more about that? I know you've mentioned it already, but. Yeah. Anything else that you'd like to add here?
- [63:32]
Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
So I mean, to add to those sort of satellite projects, if you like, the biggest Luna tribute, the sort of the Taurean retrospective and of course the podcast. I would say that those projects feed each other. So my book changed and that's why I was lucky, you know, to have had the time I had to write it because I ended up citing. I mean, the podcast episodes are publications, you know, most of them in referencing between Carolina Sonari and I. So to have the screenwriter talk about the film, or to have some editor or lighting designer or whatever, or sound designer talk about specific aspects of the film. Of course, both Carolina and I are academics, specialists, Sanvigas Luna. So we ask the questions that perhaps inside those kind of answers as well. But that has been a wonderful way to think about technical aspects of the film and to understand. And that wasn't the focus by any means. A lot of these references ended up in the footnotes, but they in a way confirm or contradict things that I thought about. And it was just interesting to look particularly about the technical aspects. So my research on Carolina's fits into the questions of the podcast and the research in the podcast, which includes sections on how the film was received in the press, but also by academics, and also includes sections, you know, the interview with the people who produce the film and other academics in terms of the films. Again, you know, showing them around the world for the last 10 years in all of these cities and different countries has been an opportunity for me to see them from different perspectives. I'll give you the example of Mexico, for example, where people were really fascinated more than anything by the postcolonial narrative of the trilogy, which, of course, we were all aware of it. You know, the Conquistadore, this ham factory in Jamunjamon. But also then I started to notice other things in what was the auto, when the whole project of Torre Gonzalez is signed in the reyescatolicos salon, in a hotel, and then the whole idea of colonialism, also in La Tela Luna and the Moon. And some of the things I say are so relevant today, because how could we predict a lot of what's going on even now? Who would have? But all of this is really important. I mean, when I think about the podcast again, you know, for example, in this episode of Lola that we just recorded, the use of the Steadicam was so important to enhance the haptic narrative and the aspects of touch and getting so close to the characters and the different fluids and so on. So, you know, talking to the director of photography of that film was just fascinating. So, you know, I've been very lucky to have this opportunity, but I also feel that Katharina and I are contributing to that. Legado. That's also the title of the film of the podcast, the book, the Legacy of Figas Luna. And the same with the films. As I say, they fit each other. The research has allowed me to do presentations and Q&As on the films, because I know about them, but also they fed back into the book and the interpretation of the films that I include including it.
- [66:42]
Fiona Noble
Great, thank you. And then very briefly, now that this book is out in the world, and I know that you're celebrating that and promoting it, as you quite rightly should be, but do you have any new exciting projects on the horizon that you're hoping to spend time on now that the biggest lunar book is done and published and out in the world.
- [67:01]
Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
Yes, I mean, obviously I am celebrating that. I'm very aware that the book has just come out in December of last year, so it's very recent. I did have have a lunch, which Joseph Zadei, I will not forget, at the Catalan cinema Thechi in Barcelona. We had a party afterwards and then another party. It was just great. The party was inspired by the reception by the films of Igas Luna and the food. So I had great time celebrating that. There should be a paper back in a few months and I'm hoping that it will be translated in other languages. So many people say finally you go to the end of this book. That's it, you're more moving on. No, I don't think it's like relationships, you know, you may end a relationship, but if it meant anything to you, you stay friends. So for me it's very much the same. I'm not giving up on Big Ass Luna. All the time I spent on researching his work is not going to come to an end by any means. We continue with the podcast. We still have a couple of years left this year we'll end up reaching the start because we started from the last film to the first. We'll get to Tatuaje this year, which is timely since his film 50 Years, but we'll continue for at least another year after that. We are also going to continue with the events. We'll have another book launch in London. If anyone listening to this is around In London, I think it's the 16th of April in the Instituto Cervantes as part of the London Spanish Film Festival. Betty and I are also working on a catalog of Igas Lunas films with many collaborations, including Carolina as well. That's something we would like to do this year, but it depends on budget and sponsors, sponsorship and all the social media and so on. Events, as I say, will continue. I also want to do some video essays on Big Aslan. I'm going to take my time, but probably to promote this book and as I say, I hope there will be translations into Catalan and Portuguese, French to mention just three of the languages that I've entered in conversations with. But who knows if funding is also very important. And at this very moment I'm writing an essay talking about nostalgia, about Meccano Spanish pop band that I've written about before. I wrote about the musical a while ago now, but I'm now working on tribute bands and also literature, popular literature written about Meccano, discovered quite a few novels that focus on that. So, you know, I'm writing about nostalgia and also what happened to them, to the band members, and how some of them are still sort of leaving Otho songs in one way or another. But the most important project, and with this I finish, is a new book that I'm writing, co writing with my colleague Alfredo Martinez Exposito from the University of Melbourne. He's been very, very patient and generous waiting for me to finish this book because we actually started this project a while ago. So it's already started. We are resuming it now that big as Lunes book is out of the way. So that's the main. We hope to receive a contract very, very, very soon and we are working on that. It's called Second Skins and it's the continuation. It's a completely new book, but it's a continuation of Life Flesh, which is a book about male bodies in contemporary Spanish cinema that we published in 2007 and this continues on from there. There's been so many crisis since then that the focus of a film, as you would expect, is crisis and you know, unemployment crisis, economic financial crisis, crisis, health crisis, ecology and so on as well.
- [70:26]
Fiona Noble
Brilliant. Thanks so much for sharing that. Sounds like you've got quite a lot to keep you busy now that the Vigas Luna book is completed. So, yeah, good luck with all of those projects. I can't wait to hear more about them in due course and to see the results. But yes, thank you so much for taking the time to chat today. It's been a real pleasure to. To discuss this amazing book in detail. I hope it's inspired people to go and read it. And yeah, just thank you so much for sharing your insights. It's been a really lovely chat. Thanks.
- [70:57]
Professor Santiago Fulz Hernandez
Thank you so much, Fiona. Can I just say that if anyone wants to get the book from Manchester University Press, they can get a discount by using the code event 30. So that's a tip because at the moment it's only hardback and as we all know, hardbacks are quite pricey. So either that or wait for the paperback in a few months. But thank you so much, Fiona. I thoroughly enjoyed talking to you about the film. So Vegas Luna, amazing.
- [71:19]
Fiona Noble
Thank you, Santi. Goodbye,
- [71:34]
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