Podcast Summary: "New Turkey and the Far Right: How Reactionary Nationalism Remade a Country"
Guest: Salim Koru (author)
Host: Ruben Silverman
Podcast: New Books Network (Middle East Studies)
Date: September 23, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of the New Books Network’s Middle East Studies podcast features author and analyst Salim Koru discussing his new book, New Turkey and the Far Right: How Reactionary Nationalism Remade a Country (I.B. Tauris, 2025). Host Ruben Silverman guides a wide-ranging conversation about the rise of reactionary nationalism in Turkey, its intellectual and historical roots, its synthesis with Islamism, and its enduring influence on domestic and foreign policy under President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. Koru offers deep insights into the personalities, ideas, and emotions driving Turkey’s transformation and reflects on broader political trends shaping the country today.

Guest’s Background and Origins of the Project

[01:37–05:56]

• Family Influence:
  Salim Koru opens by noting that both his parents come from Islamist backgrounds in Izmir, a city not known for conservatism, cultivating his exposure to varying currents of Turkish political Islam.

• Personal Duality:
  His father, an Imam Hatip (religious vocational) school graduate and a Foreign Ministry diplomat, was a pioneering figure who bridged traditional religious identity and modern state institutions.

• Transnational Upbringing:
  Koru describes a “double life,” living both in Western countries (Germany, later the US) and spending summers immersed in Turkish Islamism in Izmir.

  "I think I was more sensitive probably to … the emotional undercurrent of Islamism and how that was important in politics, especially in this period, I think in the 2000 and tens, especially after 2013 or so, when Gezi park happened and Islamism just became a lot more paranoid and I think it's fair to say aggressive." — Salim Koru [04:33]

• Intellectual Motivation:
  The book project began after Koru’s 2018 Atlantic article exploring the nature of Turkish reactionary politics, focusing on resistance to Western power and the resilience it conferred to Erdoğan’s movement.

Defining Reactionary Nationalism and the Role of Islamism

[05:56–09:04]

• Nature of Reaction:
  Koru asserts that all politics are reactionary in some way, but the far right, especially in Turkey, uniquely carries an “existential” sense of loss or defeat.
• Historical Narrative:
  Liberals see themselves as “winners” of history (e.g., US post-WWII), whereas Turkish far-right and Islamist currents view themselves as having lost, living in the aftermath of catastrophe.
• Restoring Hierarchy:
  Reactionaries aim to “reestablish hierarchy,” perceiving that the natural order of Turkish society has been upended by Western dominance and internal secularism.

  "They look at politics as okay, we have to re establish hierarchy, we have to re establish the natural flow of politics in our country and only then will we be able to solve real world problems." — Salim Koru [08:30]

Intellectual Architectures: Kadir Mısıroğlu and Historical Revisionism

[09:04–14:57]

• Profile of Kadir Mısıroğlu:
  Koru discusses the controversial historian, self-styled as a guardian of Ottoman/Islamic heritage, whom he claims better exemplifies the regime’s ideological underpinnings than more respected figures like Necip Fazıl.
• Lausanne as Defeat:
  Mısıroğlu’s most famous work reframes the Treaty of Lausanne (the foundation of the Republic) as a catastrophe, arguing Turkey’s negotiators sold out the empire from a position of cultural inferiority.

  "As a work of history, it’s very difficult to take seriously, but as a work of propaganda, it’s very effective … shifting your view of history from the victory perspective to defeat very quickly." — Salim Koru [12:03]

• Influence and Notoriety:
  Mısıroğlu’s open disdain for Atatürk made him a pariah for the mainstream but a hero for anti-secularists and some figures close to Erdoğan, despite being too controversial for public embrace.

  "He made a point of saying, you know, modern Turkish was effeminate and that Ottoman Turkish was masculine and strong and that you had to be that …" [12:52]

The New Presidential System and Institutional Change

[14:57–21:26]

• From Neoliberalism to Centralization:
  The AKP’s early years centered on economic management and gradual power consolidation, shifting toward an aggressive centralization after successive electoral wins.
• Disdain for Bureaucratic Checks:
  Erdoğan’s frustration with “the bureaucratic oligarchy” (institutional resistance in courts, bureaucracy) drove constitutional change to a “Turkish style presidency” investing vast powers in the executive.

  "Essentially it's... what in the United States, it's the unitary executive theory. Right. Sometimes in far right governments it's called Caesarism … but it's not very complicated. It's just accruing all power in the presidency and making sure that there are no ways for the bureaucracy to push back..." — Salim Koru [19:12]

• Persistent Oligarchies:
  Rather than creating order, these reforms replaced old bureaucratic elites with new, politically loyal oligarchs, often from religious orders or business lobbies.
• Post-2023 Adjustments:
  Koru notes that a return to “neoliberal orthodoxy” and more effective institutional mediation post-2023 has partially stabilized policy after a chaotic decade.

  "So yeah, since 2023, I think they've cleaned up their act quite a bit." — Salim Koru [22:15]

Key Figures of the New Order

[23:25–27:33]

• Policy-Maker Profiles:
  Koru details his selection of high-level bureaucrats and advisers (e.g., Hakan Fidan, İbrahim Kalın, Feridun Sinirlioğlu) who became influential due to skill rather than ideological pedigree.
• Policy Process Influences:
  Many of these figures modeled US think-tank culture and power politics, seeking not regulatory sophistication (as in Europe) but geopolitical weight akin to the US approach.

  "They were about generating geopolitical power. How do you do that? Well, you look very closely at the United States. You look at what they do and you kind of do what you think they do." — Salim Koru [25:04]

• Networks of Competence:
  The regime privileged effectiveness and political savvy, often transcending sectarian or Islamist credentials.

Media and Ideology: The Case of İbrahim Karagül

[27:33–31:42]

• Karagül’s Role:
  As an ultra-nationalist, anti-Western journalist, Karagül embodies the regime’s bombastic, uncompromising rhetoric on foreign policy. Despite seeming outlandish, his views are influential and resonant within the movement.

  "Just because it's uncompromising doesn't mean that it's not a real, an enduring aspect of it. And I think on quite a few things, he's been proven to be right." — Salim Koru [31:19]

Foreign Policy Visions: Russia and China

[31:42–39:34]

• Russia:
  Karagül—and by extension, the Turkish far right—initially feared dependence on Russia/China as a threat to Islamists, but now see Russia as a model of anti-Western, reactionary politics with strong emotional connections among Turkey’s secondary elite.

  "In Putin, I think he saw his own kind of politics... former empires that were very close, you know, on Europe's doorstep." — Salim Koru [33:39]

• China:
  Turkey’s relationship with China remains shallow—plagued by lack of expertise and institutional capacity, and hampered by the Uyghur issue’s emotional resonance in Turkish society.

  "There is no real culture of like thinking aloud on paper... those two things, the strategy making capacity and area studies capacity, those just didn't exist." — Salim Koru [36:48]

• Changing Trends:
  Recent years show modest increases in Turkish curiosity toward China via young Islamists studying in Chinese universities, but genuine strategic partnership remains elusive.

Domestic Impact and Transformation

[39:34–43:50]

• Occidentalism Reframed:
  Koru posits that Turkish political struggle is best understood as two forms of Occidentalism:
  • Aspirational Occidentalism—(align with, become part of the West; associated with Kemalism)
  • Competitive Occidentalism—(compete with and defeat the West; now predominant under Erdoğan)
• Reshaping Turkey’s Destiny:
  The regime is focused on reconfiguring geography, population policy, and military/industrial capacity to become a formidable, independent geopolitical power.

  "That’s the way I think that this movement is reshaping the country and, and grinding it towards being something completely different." — Salim Koru [42:51]

• Sacrificing the Social Contract:
  Koru argues ordinary citizens are offered pride but little material improvement—contrary to the AKP’s early developmental promises.

Current Projects and Closing Thoughts

[43:50–46:12]

• Substack and Future Work:
  Koru is now turning his focus to public writing, notably his Substack “Kulturkampf”, after recently finishing this book and a PhD project on Nietzsche’s politics.
• Host’s Recommendation:
  Ruben Silverman encourages listeners to engage with Koru’s incisive writing as a unique guide to understanding contemporary Turkey.

  "Your writing I find to be some of the most incisive, clear writing about events in Turkey, developments in Turkey and how to think about it." — Ruben Silverman [45:47]

Notable Quotes

• On emotional roots of Islamism:
  “I think I was more sensitive probably to sort of the, the, I don't want to say ideological, but the emotional undercurrent of Islamism…” — Salim Koru [04:33]
• On the far-right mentality:
  "If you're reactionary, you see your side as having lost.... In Turkey... there were certain strands of Turkish politics that thought, okay, Something has gone terribly wrong and we live really in a catastrophe. Right. And Islamism is one of those." — Salim Koru [06:51]
• On historical revisionism:
  "He made a point of saying, you know, modern Turkish was effeminate and that Ottoman Turkish was masculine and strong and that you had to be that..." — Salim Koru [12:52]
• On regime transformation:
  "They just created different oligarchs in place of the old ones... this perfect order... just ends up being just as chaotic as, or at least perhaps more than the one they replaced." — Salim Koru [20:17]
• On the new Occidentalism:
  “My argument is that this competitive Occidentalism has taken hold with the Erdogan regime.” — Salim Koru [41:01]

Key Timestamps

• 01:37–05:56: Salim Koru’s personal/family background and genesis of the book
• 05:56–09:04: Defining reactionary nationalism and Islamism’s intersection
• 09:04–14:57: Intellectual roots: Kadir Mısıroğlu and the politics of loss
• 14:57–21:26: The Erdoğan system: centralization, chaos, and oligarchy
• 21:26–23:25: Post-2023 regime adjustments
• 23:25–27:33: Profiles of key officials and regime networks
• 27:33–31:42: Media/ideology—İbrahim Karagül’s significance
• 31:42–39:34: Foreign policy: Turkey’s evolving stance toward Russia and China
• 39:34–43:50: Domestic transformation under competitive Occidentalism
• 43:50–46:12: Koru’s ongoing work; recommendations for further reading

Summary Conclusion

This conversation offers an authoritative dissection of the forces that have shaped “New Turkey” over two decades—blending incisive intellectual history, character portraits, and policy critique. Koru’s analysis, grounded in personal experience and scholarship, helps listeners grasp the deep narratives of defeat, reaction, and nationalist ambition underpinning current Turkish politics—and the often unforeseen consequences of these currents, both at home and abroad. The episode is an essential primer for anyone seeking to understand Turkey’s far-right nationalist era.