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Steven W. Ramey, "Hinduism in Five Minutes" (Equinox, 2022)
00:38:54
An interview with Steven W. Ramey
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- [00:01]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
So good, so good, so good.
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Dr. Stephen Ramey
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Dr. Raj Balkaran
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- [01:01]
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Dr. Raj Balkaran
Call of Duty Black Ops 7 available now. Rated M for mature.
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Dr. Stephen Ramey
Welcome to the New Books Network.
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Dr. Raj Balkaran
Welcome back to the new Books in Indian Religions podcast, a podcast channel here on the New Books Network. I'm your host, Dr. Raj Balkaran. More importantly, today I get to speak with Dr. Steven Ramey, who is professor in the Department of Religious Studies at the University of Alabama. We'll be speaking about a fascinating new publication. It's. It's 2022 Equinox. It's called Hinduism in Five Minutes. Stephen, welcome to the podcast.
- [02:06]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
Thank you for having me, Raj.
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Dr. Raj Balkaran
My pleasure. It just so happens we had your colleague Michael Altman on a few podcasts ago, about 10ish podcasts ago. And so here we are. Apparently he was sufficiently unscathed so. So as to not deter you from appearing.
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Dr. Stephen Ramey
That's right. He encouraged it and I appreciate that. I appreciate the opportunity to talk with you about it.
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Dr. Raj Balkaran
It's my pleasure, actually. So tell us a bit about how did you get involved in this project.
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Dr. Stephen Ramey
Well, some of my colleagues have been involved with an earlier book in this series called Religion in five Minutes. And this is an Equinox kind of broader series that has a starts with questions and tries to give about a 5 minute answer to each question. And so I participated in the Hinduism in five Minutes, the Religion in five Minutes book, and then Equinox was interested in doing a variety of more specialized books. Hinduism in Five Minutes, Buddhism in Five Minutes, Atheism in Five Minutes, Native American Religions in Five Minutes, those types of books. And so they asked me if I would be interested in editing Hinduism in Five Minutes. And I jumped at the chance because it was a wonderful experience and it's been useful in classes for the Religion in Five Minutes. And I thought a Hinduism in Five Minutes book would be a good addition to the series.
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Dr. Raj Balkaran
I have to tell you, I already know that this will be a go to resource for much of my teaching, particularly in the continuing studies vein, where there are a variety of learners from a variety of backgrounds, some heritage learners, some interested laypeople, some even grad students who study at the Ochs Online or the School of Indian Wisdom that I run, et cetera, et cetera. And there often will be questions that are ancillary to the, you know, we might be talking about karmic theory, and then someone asks about caste, for example. I'll be like, you know what, there's this book called Hinduism in Five Minutes where you can open it up and there are short articles. So just to give the listeners who haven't had a chance to look at the book a sense of the structure, how many articles are there? How are they divided? How long are they? Ish.
- [04:32]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
They're about. There are 71 articles and they are around 750 words each for the main part of the article. And so ideally you can read that in about five minutes. It's developed from. We actually polled some students at the University of Alabama, asked them to write down a few questions they had about Hinduism. So we wanted to start with questions that come not from experts, but come from students. And in our case are the general population in that sense. And so people who've heard a little bit about Hinduism perhaps, but have the kind of naive question that you would expect from someone who is just entering into the study of Hinduism or the study of religion more generally. And so we asked them to provide us questions. So I went through those questions and kind of picked out some, edited some. Then in conversation with other scholars, we added a few other questions and that came up with this core set of 71 that some of them talk about the origins, some of them talk about texts, some of them talk about deities, some of them talk about contemporary issues. We have a section that's Hinduism in relation to non Hindus. And so it's divided into variety of sections to help the reader find the information they're looking for. If they Have a very specific question or just flip through and say, oh, that is interesting. I would like to see something about gender in Hinduism or LGBTQ issues in Hinduism or Hinduism in Islam. There are questions about those that are spread throughout the book.
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Dr. Raj Balkaran
Yeah, I just. I guess it's a teacher. Yeah. So love. I mean, I love all the books that we cover for a variety of reasons, because they teach us something about the world, they teach us something about humans, they teach you something about Hinduism, about Indian religions, spirituality, etc, etc. But this book is so obviously geared towards teaching that it really resonates where the chapters are actually questions. And that's so perfect. Questions such as, what are the moral codes of Hindus? You know, questions such as, you know, what are the sacred texts of Hindus, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Were all the questions. Were the questions primarily from your students?
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Dr. Stephen Ramey
They were primarily from Alabama students. So I think probably about 80% so came directly from the students. And then we supplemented, and sometimes, you know, there's an overlap and we combine questions and kind of refined them in some ways, but it really started the vast majority with questions directly from the students. And then part of the rationale in this series is we don't want, in a pedagogical sense, we don't want to just give a kind of quick, easy answer to the question. We're wanting to get the reader to begin to think more deeply about the question itself. And so a lot of times, you know, what is most important text in Hinduism, most important story in Hinduism, the answer is, well, it depends on how you want to define that. Right. That it's more complicated than the opening question. And so the hope is that within five minutes, the reader both learns something in relation to the question, but also learns how much broader the study of Hinduism, the practices associated with Hinduism, whatever the topic is, how much broader and more complicated it is. And that a lot of times there's assumptions built into the question that we want them to begin to think about also. And so it's doing multiple things in a very short time. And it doesn't give a complete and exhaustive answer about all the text. In Hinduism, of course, that would be a whole tome itself, but it gives an inkling, try to satisfy a curiosity and push further. Both.
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Dr. Raj Balkaran
Well, it strikes an important balance, right. As scholars, particularly of a rich, ancient, diverse, problematic tradition such as Hinduism or broad religions, everything is hopelessly perspectival and conditional and at times theoretical, or who knows? The data is scant, or there's so many moving parts, it's just such a moving target. So many of the elements of what we study, nevertheless, students deserve answers when they ask questions. Nevertheless, one should be able to answer a question, for example, on a podcast of what's your book about? Why is your book. Why is your book important? How did you get into this topic? And so it does strike that balance. And from what comes to me is this might be a good time to talk about who's writing these articles, because I think that's exactly why it's able to strike that balance. Who's writing these articles or how was this team assembled?
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Dr. Stephen Ramey
Well, like any good edited volume, it was kind of an ad hoc assembly process. But we have scholars who are very early career. Some are still grad students, advanced PhD students, some who are just starting out and teaching, some who have been well known in the field and are approaching even retirement age. And so it's a wide range of. Of scholars who are contributing to it. And so it's not everybody, everybody is not coming from one particular sliver of the study of Hinduism or one particular set of experiences in the teaching of Hinduism. And so they're from a variety of different types of institutions. So we are benefiting from a variety of different pedagogical experiences that the scholars have had as professors, but also as students, and a variety of different specialties within the study of Hinduism. And so one of the things that I find particularly gratifying about the book, and I hope it is recognized and comes through to the reader, is the diverse examples that people draw on. Because if I were to try to write this book, I would be repeating the same examples in lots of different questions. But by having over 20 scholars contributing to means that they're each drawing on their own specialty, their own expertise, and their own examples that they have refined in teaching, sometimes for decades. And so you get that type of diversity across this, that represents some of the diversity of Hinduism. And so some of these guru movements and groups that are being talked about are groups that I would never have brought up because I don't know everything about them, but the experts in these specialties do. And so they're able to very quickly give you an example of the Bishnoi as an environmental group or kangiri as a female guru. And that enriches the whole text, I think.
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Dr. Raj Balkaran
Could you say a word, perhaps anonymized about the editorial process? Was it such that were the contributors readily able to provide this sort of snapshot view and then problematize it a bit? You know, was there a means or need for systematizing or regulating the sort of types or tones of responses that you'd get.
- [13:05]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
I did not have to take a heavy editorial hand in this. I gave some suggestions a few times because we're trying to get this as approachable as possible for a novice reader or an introductory student. And so there were a few times where I was like, can we simplify this a little bit or make this a little bit more direct? And so there were a few cases where I did some editorial suggestions along those lines, but for the most part the instructions were to write a short piece, about 750 words. Some are a bit longer, some are within that range, but none go too long and try to problematize the question while giving some basic information for a novice reader. For the most part, the contributors hit it out of the park with maybe only minor edits. There were a few situations where I thought it needed to be simplified a bit or shortened a bit. And so we worked on that together.
- [14:20]
Dr. Raj Balkaran
Fascinating. I have only recently had the opportunity to serve as a co editor for a volume in sort of Sanskrit narrative epics. Input on us and the volume, it was myself and McCollos Taylor, but the contributors were, most of them were so seasoned and or just naturally gifted that the process was fairly smooth from the perspective of requiring a great deal of edits. Were there. Were there areas or questions or sections of the Hindu world that you maybe didn't have a chance to look at, you hope to look at. Do you feel it's a fairly. Are you satisfied with the spread? You know, can you say a bit about that?
- [15:18]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
I am satisfied with the spread overall and anybody is going to be able to say, well, what about X? You know, we don't have processions as a separate entry or pilgrimage as a separate entry in this. And so there are always going to be things that you can point out that are missing. But we tried to have to balance between. There's a little bit of philosophy, there's some about text, there's some about history, there's some about contemporary practices. I think it's weighted a little bit more towards the contemporary situation and so the contemporary issues at the end of the volume, I think by count has more entries in it by a little bit than like the text or the deities. But to me it gives a good fairly broad overview of different elements within Hinduism. And so I'm hoping that people are overall satisfied with the coverage in there. But it's weighted a bit towards the contemporary, both in terms of practice and in terms of contemporary issues. Like environmentalism or caste or modernization in some of those issues.
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Dr. Raj Balkaran
Just to give the listeners a bit of a clearer sense about the spreader range, I'll just say in a word or two, something about the sections. It starts off with a section called General Questions. It features questions such as, what is the biggest misconception people have about Hinduism? What are the primary ideas of Hinduism? These are two such articles. Then there's a section, there's about seven in the first section. Then there's a section on beginnings, you know, what is the creation story of Hinduism? The one and only creation story, of course. Then there's a section on development, such as, what are the regional differences in Hinduism across India? How does someone become a guru? And there's a section on texts and stories. What is the Bhagavad Gita? Can things be added to Hindu texts, for example? Then there's a section on gods and goddesses. What does each God represent? You know, what deities are most popular? And there's a section on personal practices, such as, how does one become a follower of Hinduism? Typically, do Hindus still have arranged marriages? Section on rituals and worship. What are the significant holidays? For example, is yoga important to Hinduism? Then comes a section on Hindus in relation to non Hindus. Why is there a conflict between Hinduism and Islam? Is one question. Is it hard for Hindus to practice in places that have other dominant religions? Is another question. For example, there's a section then on contemporary issues. It's the final section. What are some values taught children to Hindu children? Why is your discrimination based on caste? This did women have to jump into fire when their husbands died? Just to give you a sense of the texture and the richness of the publication, I was delighted to see that a number of the contributors have actually appeared on the podcast. Maybe I'll have to at some point systematically target all the other ones just to boast that we've had all the contributors to Hinduism in five minutes on the New Books in Indian Religions podcast. Was there anything surprising to you about this process?
- [19:09]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
I think when I went into it, you know, I was happy to have the different voices. I was surprised in a very positive way by the range, the richness that that brought in terms of that range of examples that people could draw on. And so that I think I should have recognized that more clearly. But I was really, as I kept on going through them, I'm like, wow, that's a good example for this that I would never have been able to do. And so that was the very positive, to me, surprise, maybe a little bit too strong of a term, but a very positive result of it that I did not fully anticipate in that way, I think on the flip side, the surprise sometimes is how challenging it can be to write a 750 word answer to these questions. Right? That that becomes some of the contributors were hit it right on the mark. But that becomes a challenge at points to create a fairly simple answer that is short but also raises the complex issues that there is not, you know, one way to be Hindu or there's not one understanding of what is a Hindu text or what's most important right.
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- [22:11]
Dr. Raj Balkaran
How many of in reading through the book, I note that one Stephen Ramey wrote a couple of the articles. How many of them did you write and was there any rhyme or reason to which ones you chose to personally author?
- [22:28]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
Well, I ended up writing 10 of them, so I am in there more than anybody else, which was not really my intent to begin with. But in the process of recruiting contributors, I basically sent out the list of questions to people and said, you know, suggest three or four or five that you would be willing to write and then try to divide up so that people had their choice. And a lot of times I was picking up the ones that weren't selected. But I felt like really needed to be in the book. And so that was. It was kind of by default or by filling in the gaps that I was in there. And it ended up in my, you know, there were a couple situations where somebody said, I'm not going to be able to get this done in the right time frame. And so I didn't originally plan to do 10, but it expanded up two. The 10 questions that I ended up answering.
- [23:35]
Dr. Raj Balkaran
Well, one part, you picked up the slack where needed and you were brave enough to tackle the questions that.
- [23:45]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
Would.
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Dr. Raj Balkaran
Cause trepidation to most, such as who founded Hinduism? Or has Hinduism changed since its creation? Or how many sacred texts does Hinduism have? I mean, these are in addition to expertise. One needs courage to tackle these in 750 words.
- [24:07]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
Well, it's kind of like the courage you need in the classroom, right? Because you don't know what question's going to come. And after doing it for a number of years, as you know, we kind of begin to develop a certain amount of confidence to be able to answer a fairly basic question and then do a little research to supplement when you need to. And so fortunately, this is not like standing up in front of a classroom where you're on the spot. I can say, okay, I can answer that question if I can have a couple of days to look up and find my example and double check this point or that point.
- [24:51]
Dr. Raj Balkaran
Can you imagine being in front of a class student asks the question, you're like, would you send me an email? I'll get back to you. Would you email that to me? I'll get back to you by Friday.
- [25:04]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
Yeah, that's kind of what we need to do sometimes though, right?
- [25:07]
Dr. Raj Balkaran
Because it's certainly there are situations where it's just well beyond our expertise and we can't even offer a general response. Certainly there are situations such as that, but more often than not, we, we know much more than we think we do, and they're looking for a much more basic level of analysis than right then we're used to in engaging our colleagues at conferences, for example.
- [25:30]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
And you're reminding me that in class on yesterday, I was asked a question that I could not fully answer. It was not about Hinduism, but I was like, I need to look that up before class tomorrow. Thank you for the reminder.
- [25:48]
Dr. Raj Balkaran
One of the boons of being full professor is you don't mind telling them you don't know.
- [25:53]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
Well, I think it's really important that we admit that and hopefully we remember to look it up and be able to come back the next time, because I think students can really appreciate knowing that their instructor, professor, whatever level, isn't going to just make up something. But they know a lot. They can answer most questions, but if there's a point that they're unsure about, they go and check. And that models, I think, the right way to manage knowledge in the construction, presentation of it.
- [26:31]
Dr. Raj Balkaran
What you're teaching them in that response is not in, in that approach is not content teaching. It's life teaching in that this, this is what it means to study. Right. This is, this is. There's. There's. The frontier of knowledge is unending and everybody will bump up against their limitations at some point. And there you are. Who is this book for? Who might most benefit from this sort of book?
- [26:59]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
Well, these are designed for the general reader. And so on the one hand, it's for your neighbor who doesn't know anything about Hinduism but has a question. Right. And so it's not just for the classroom, but I think it also, because of that kind of general nature, it becomes a useful tool in the classroom to provide something other than either to supplement or instead of a basic textbook, because in the basic introduction to Hinduism, you get a fairly, to varying degrees, but a fairly consistent narrative. And I think this, with the different chapters could be used to problematize that narrative, to say, yes, but to some of the different assertions in that sometimes an introductory text or an introductory chapter will kind of rely on certain generalizations. And I think this is trying to get the reader to think beyond those journalizations in a very accessible fashion. And so that's what I hope it works in the classroom. I know some scholars, some colleagues teaching Intro to Religious Studies using the religion in five minutes. That way they have a text, then they turn to religion in five minutes, select a chapter from it. And now what's the author doing and moving from and how does it relate to the textbook that we're using also? Right. And so I think this could work kind of in tandem with the textbook in that way to provide a challenge to perhaps, and I'm not thinking of a particular textbook here, but the general notion that a textbook can be very generalized and sometimes moves towards a very clear answer to a complex situation that has no clear answer. And this, I think, could be used to challenge that.
- [29:12]
Dr. Raj Balkaran
Yeah, it's. It really is niche in a sense. I mean, I haven't come across anything quite like this sort of reference. And I've come across a great many materials, particularly, you know, in, in the role of hosting the podcast. And I'VE come across a fair bit of high yield teaching resource material, at least for me and my purposes. But it's really this fascinating mix of short, bite sized, accessible, but in depth and colored. It's really striking that balance, wouldn't you say?
- [29:51]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
That's what I'm hoping. That's what we're really trying to do. And so I'm thrilled to here that you see it in that way because we want to not only provide information, but try to help the reader begin to think about the questions themselves and what assumptions are behind the questions themselves. Because I think that helps them move forward beyond a kind of simplistic or stereotyped understanding of another religion, another community, to begin to see their own assumptions that go into the question. The assumption that Hinduism is going to have a main philosophy. Right. That there's going to be a consistent, singular, essential thread to pull out of Hinduism. And this I think really tries to challenge that notion and get the reader to think about what assumptions they're making when they ask the question.
- [30:56]
Dr. Raj Balkaran
What comes to mind, which pertains to multiple articles, but something that's recursive in my own teaching space is the series of assumptions pertaining to the idea of text, the need for text, a word text, what that is. And many a time I have to remind myself and audiences that, for example, the life of a story in the Puranic world is far from what we think of as text. Yeah, we do have these sex call to put on us and yes, of course they're more than worthy of studying. And yet there are traditions and innovations and variations of tellings that don't think of story the way we think of stories, you might find in the Gospels, for example. Yeah, they're not the gospel truth in that sense. Pun intended.
- [31:53]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
Yes.
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Dr. Raj Balkaran
And so different versions of the Descent of the Ganges or etc. Etc. And so the idea of text. So yes, of course it's a fascinating and important question of what are Hindu sacred texts and this and this and this. And an answer needs to be given. But definitely, particularly in the case of all things indic, the category of our mode of inquiry itself needs to somehow be massaged through answering the questions that arise.
- [32:25]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
Well, and I think what can also happen with that is we can then look anew at whether it is the Gospels or the Quran or the Torah or whatever text and begin to see that there are threads of this flexibility of narrative within those texts that we so often assume are, as you said, the gospel truth. Right. And so I think we can take the questioning of assumptions about the questions on Hinduism and now reflect those back on our own approaches, whether personal or professional, to religious texts in other communities. Because I think the notion that this is kind of the gospel truth, that kind of singular view of it in many situations, is a much more contemporary assumption than the way it's always been, if I can use that phrase.
- [33:36]
Dr. Raj Balkaran
I have to tell you, a couple of the questions are so honest and raw, and one of them, actually, I laughed out loud, I'll find it. So the question is, literally, some guy dressed in an orange robe gave me a copy of the Bhagavad Gita, was he Hindu? And yet such a rich response ensues from such a question.
- [33:58]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
Yes, yes, I did, allows this author to raise so many points about what does it mean to be Hindu, and what is the history of the Ka Consciousness movement and the ways it's been interpreted and labeled. And so it raises so many questions. And so these questions coming from our students oftentimes can be very rich for that type of reflection.
- [34:35]
Dr. Raj Balkaran
Fascinating. Was there anything else about the book or the project that you wanted us to touch on in our conversation?
- [34:46]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
A project like this is impossible without all of the contributors. And so, you know, I recognize how I am here as the editor of the book, but I couldn't do it without everybody who, over the course of about a year, you know, sent me their draft and then responded to a few edits and then responded to the proofs and all of that long process. And so I appreciate the colleagues that make this possible, that make it, as I said, a rich volume that no single person would be able to produce on their own with the richness of examples. And so I find I'm kind of humbled by the generosity of my colleagues who helped make this the volume that it is.
- [35:43]
Dr. Raj Balkaran
Fantastic. Before we close, do you want to say a bit about yourself and your own research or what you might be working on?
- [35:52]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
Well, right now I am working on a world religions textbook with a co author Leslie Durrow Smith in Kansas City, Missouri, or Kansas City, Kansas, actually, and we're working for a world religions type of class, trying to take some of the ideas from Hinduism in five minutes. In this approach, to say, rather than giving one narrative of what Islam is or Buddhism or Chinese religion, we try to give four different images of each one and then talk about what is kind of going on in the choice of each of those four. And so our goal in this text is to help the reader not come away thinking, okay, I now know what Sikhism is to say. I now have seen four different ways of talking about Sikhism and can think a little bit about what are the limitations of each of those ways. And so in our current environment, with the amount of information that's available, we're hoping it's useful in the classroom to help teach students to think critically about any single representation of religion. And so in a way like this book, Hinderson, Five Minutes gets you to question the assumptions in your own questions. This is being designed to help students think critically about any singular representation because no representation can be complete. And so that's what I'm working on right now. We're in finishing up some edits and so about to send it off to the publisher. So we're hoping that moves forward over the next six months to a year and then that. So that's the big project at the moment.
- [37:54]
Dr. Raj Balkaran
Excellent. Well, perhaps we'll have you back on the podcast to talk about that and we'll of course cross post it to the various religion channels on the New Books Network.
- [38:06]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
That'd be great.
- [38:07]
Dr. Raj Balkaran
Yeah. So you survived. You were unscathed, it seems, from this conversation.
- [38:13]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
It's been a lot of fun. So thank you for having me.
- [38:17]
Dr. Raj Balkaran
Excellent. Thank you very much for appearing on the podcast today.
- [38:20]
Dr. Stephen Ramey
It's been a pleasure.
- [38:22]
Dr. Raj Balkaran
All right, for those listening, we've been speaking with Dr. Stephen, who is editor of a fascinating resource called Hinduism in Five Minutes. Until next time, keep well, keep listening and keep contemplating how to answer complex questions in five minutes. Take care.