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Su Hwa Keum, "From Juche to Jesus: A Study of Worldview Transformation Among North Korean Defector Christians in South Korea" (Pickwick Publications, 2025)
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- [00:00]
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Dave Broczek
Welcome to the New Books Network Hello, I'm Dave Broczek, one of the hosts of new books in World Christianity. In this episode, I'm talking with Dr. Su Hwa Kyum about her book From Jucha to Jesus, a study of worldview transformation among North Korean defector Christians in South Korea. This book is number 23 in the evangelical Missiological Society Monograph series. It was published by Pickwick publications of Eugene, Oregon in 2025. Dr. Kyum is a pastor, researcher, and theologian specializing in North Korean defector studies. She holds a PhD in Intercultural Studies from Torch Trinity Graduate University in Seoul, Korea. She currently serves as Training Director for Senior Mission Korea. Her research and ministry aim to guide individuals through a process of worldview and spiritual renewal where faith is reshaped and rooted in Scripture. Her aim is to help individuals thrive both spiritually and culturally. So having said that, let me say this sue, if we may use first names here in the interview. Welcome to the podcast.
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Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
Thank you so much, Dave. It's a really pleasure to be here and I'm grateful for the opportunity to share a bit of my story and this book with you.
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Dave Broczek
Excellent. Well, I'm delighted. I've been looking forward to this interview. Yes, let's start with a bit of biography. Please tell us about yourself.
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Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
If I think about how I arrived at this point, it really began about 30 years ago when I was still a very young Christian. During that time, the Lord placed a quiet but persistent burden on my heart to pray for the nation, especially for North Korea. I was using a small prayer booklet and I remember reading about Saudi Arabia, which at the time was described as having no visible Christian presence I remember asking God a very simple question. If I pray for a nation like this, can anything really change? Even then, somehow I believed that it could. Around the same time, I began praying regularly for North Korea, using a prayer guide written by David Ross, a missionary who later helped establish Youth with a Mission in Korea. From a human perspective, North Korea seemed completely closed, isolated, unreachable, and hopeless. Yet God gave me a conviction that if we pray according to his will, he he can do extraordinary things, even in places that appear impossible. So during that season, I began having repeating dreams about North Korea. In one dream, I was working as a manager in a tofu factory there. At first, everything felt ordinary, even peaceful. But as time went on, the dreams became increasingly dark and frightening. I began to see violent scenes. Being hunted, being killed, situations where there was no escape. I would wake up sweating, with my heart racing. Over time, those images stayed with me even when I was awake. Just thinking about North Korea began to trigger fear, and eventually I avoided the topic altogether. And I should say that fear didn't come from nowhere. I was broadly aware of North Korea's history, how after the Korean War, Christians were not simply persecuted, but systematically targeted, imprisoned and killed in an effort to uproot a faith entirely. Looking back, I came to understand those dreams as a spiritual opposition forces that tried to prevent me from embracing North Korea and its people with love, resisting what God was beginning to place in my heart. Much later in my life, something unexpected happened that changed everything. I met a woman who had defected from North Korea. Part of her story appears in my book. She had escaped at great personal risk, later met a Korean missionary, and while being detained in a transit country, Thailand. And she cried out to God, asking desperately to be allowed to reach South Korea. It was there that she encountered Christ in a life altering way. When she eventually arrived in South Korea, she entered the DTS Disciple Training School on an island in Korea, and her life was completely transformed. What struck me most was her radical obedience. At a time when many South Korean Christians, including myself, were cautious or comfortable, she surrendered fully to God. The Lord began to give her a vision, not only for her own healing, but for South Korea itself, for national healing and restoration. Through her obedience, a prayer movement began, focused on what she understood as the seven mountains of society. Areas like politics, economics, entertainment, religion, family, and education. She was led to build a prayer altar on a high mountain in Korea, and people from all over the country began gathering there to pray. Beyond that, she reached out online to people struggling with suicidal thoughts and eventually helped establish a shelter for them, her face was costly, courageous, and deeply moving. What affected me most was not simply what she did, but who she was becoming in Christ. As I watched her life, I realized the image of North Korea I carried, one shaped by fear and despair, was being replaced. Seeing a real North Korean person living, praying and flourishing in Christ freed me from from fear and shifted my imagination from hopelessness to hope. In that moment, I sensed God speaking very clearly to me. This woman represents North Korea, and through her life I understood that God was already at work within North Korea itself. This realization slowly healed my fear and planted the seed for my research. I want you to understand how worldview transformation actually happens when North Koreans encounter Christianity, how deeply formed beliefs change, and what that process looks like from the inside. While I was on this spiritual and academic journey, my professional life was unfolding at the same time. In fact, my background in the corporate world provided a strong foundation for my research. I had started my career in South Korea with a bachelor's degree in computer science, working as a programmer for a major corporation. Later, I moved to the US and worked as a programmer for Sky Chefs, that's American Airlines catering company. My journey then led me to Silicon Valley where I served as an office manager. It was there, in the heart of the tech world, that I first became involved in youth ministry. This passion continued when I moved to Long Island, New York. And it was there that the Lord poured into my heart a deep desire for theological study. So I began my MD at the King's University and eventually returned to Korea to complete both my MD and PhD at Torch Trinity Graduate University. The book we are discussing today is the fruit of that doctoral research. I'm deeply honored that the Evangelical Missiological Society selected my dissertation as an outstanding study and chose to publish it. So currently I'm applying the insights from my research. As a Training Director of Senior Mission Korea, my role is to help senior professionals who are transitioning into mission work to firmly establish a biblical worldview. I found that the internalization of the work I studied with North Koreans is just as vital for senior missionaries. Looking ahead. I'm committed to deepening my research on North Korean defectors as there is still so much to learn from their spiritual transformation. Alongside this, I'm also preparing to plant a church with where I hope to create a community that lives out these values of worldview transformation and kingdom aligned living. I want to ensure that my academic findings continue to serve the actual body of Christ. Thank you, Dave.
- [10:49]
Dave Broczek
Thank you so much for that description. This is what I love about These interviews, we get to know an author much more personally than a brief paragraph on a book jacket. Thank you. I wonder if we can now talk more specifically about the book. How did you come to write this book on this topic?
- [11:17]
Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
Okay. As I started working with the North Korean defectors, I noticed something surprising and quite troubling. Many of them had this dramatic, miraculous encounter with God during their dangerous journey of defection. But once they arrived in South Korea and their lives began to stabilize, I saw their participation in church and their initial fire for God begin to fade. It wasn't that they were rejecting Christianity, but I realized that during their escape, they had nothing. No food, no safety, and constant threats. In that extreme survival mode, they cried out to God. However, in South Korea, their basic needs were met, their lives settled, and their priorities changed. This is where I saw the limit of what I call surface level convergence. I began to suspect that for many, their inner lens for interpreting life hadn't yet been reshaped. You see, the core of Juche ideology is the belief that man is the master of his own destiny. Even after they encounter the gospel, if their root isn't addressed, they remain the masters of their own lives. They used God as a powerful helper for their survival, but once life became comfortable, they no longer felt they needed that help. Around that time, I came across a sentence by Paul Hibbert that was truly eye opening for me. He wrote that unless a person's worldview is transformed, the Gospel can easily become captive to the local culture. This explained exactly what I was seeing. So I decided to move beyond just survival and convergent stories or a simple culture and adaptation. I want you to explore a much bigger question. What actually changes deep inside a person to make their worldview truly shift from the Jew chat belief that I'm the master to biblical worldview, where God is the Lord. And why do some stay rooted in this true transformation or while others quietly drift away once their physical needs are met? Writing this book became my journey to find those answers, to understand how the Word and the Spirit work together, to deconstruct that old master complex and build a new identity in Christ from the ground up. Is the answer okay?
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Dave Broczek
Yes, certainly. I mean, that really gives us lead into how you chose a subject matter. I might just say this. I'm listening to a person who is both a scholar but also a practitioner. You are engaged in ministry at the same time that you're studying the ministry and the outcomes and how change actually takes place at a deep level. May I ask a question? And I'M doing this question as someone who has a background in mission studies, but very, to be honest, little understanding of Juche. You mention this ideology. It's in the title of the book. You mention about the person is master. Could you help us understand it? I'll tell you why I'm asking that question. I'm assuming that listeners to this podcast will be those who have an interest in Christianity in Korea, both north and south, but they will have varying levels of familiarity with the subject. Scholars will be very knowledgeable, others less so. Some may tune in just because they're curious about the subject matter. We welcome all of them. But I would say let's talk to those who don't have a strong solid background. That's why I'm asking if you could just unpack, as we say, a little bit more. What is Juche? Why do we need to understand this?
- [16:04]
Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
Okay. To understand the spiritual journey of North Korean defectors, one must first grasp the old incompetency in nature of Juche. It is the very air they breathe from birth. Juche is the official state ideology of North Korea, often translated as self reliance. While it originated in the 1950s as a political tool for independence, it evolved into something much deeper, a totalizing worldview. It effectively replaced traditional beliefs with a monolithic system that governs every aspect of life. In my book Argued, I argue that juche functions as a secular religion. It is like a mirror image of Christianity, but in a strictly secular and political way. On the surface, it claims that man is the master of all things and decides everything. But here is a theological trap. It asserts that an individual can only realize decent mastery through absolute and unquestioning obedience to the supreme leader. In this system, the leader acts as a secular savior. Human value, morality, and even the very purpose of existence are not inherent. They are granted by the state based on one's loyalty. In my research, I found that understanding Juche is absolutely critical for for North Korean. Moving from Juche ideology to Jesus is not just about changing their religion. It is what I call a radical ontological shift, a total change in their very being. Let me explain why. First, under Juche, your value is conditional. There is a terrifying principle that says you are the master of your fate only as long as you are a tool of the leader. This means life's meaning is entirely found in devotion to a mortal man. It creates a performance based identity rooted in fear. If you don't perform, or if you are not useful to the system, you have no value. But through the gospel, everything flips As I explore in my book, that lens of fear is replaced by God's grace. Suddenly their identity is no longer about what they do for for the leader, but about who they are as children of God. It moved them from a life of being a tool to a life of being beloved. This transition from a tool of a man to a child of God is the heart of the transformation I studied. So I've interviewed defectors, including highly educated professionals, who describe this transition as opening their eyes for the first time. They move from a system that demands they save themselves through political loyalty to a faith that offers them salvation through a love that requires no performance. My book traces these transformations, showing how the internal architecture of a mind shaped by Juche is dismantled and rebuilt by the biblical worlds.
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- [20:05]
Dave Broczek
So you did this research. You interviewed North Korean Christian defectors. If I recall, you interviewed 20.
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Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
That's right.
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Dave Broczek
Can you tell us about these interviews? How did you go about trying to answer this question of how their worldview was transformed?
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Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
You mean how I interviewed them?
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Dave Broczek
Well, sure. There's several approaches we could take. You used an inductive approach in your research, right? That was with interviews. There's several questions that come to mind. I mean, how were these participants selected, these 20? And then what did you ask them?
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Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
Yes, I will answer you. I used ground theory because in this area of the study there's no specific theories existing. So in ground theory we use a method called theoretical sampling. Instead of picking everyone at the start, I let the emerging data guide me to the next person. I sought specific individuals recommended by leaders and pastors who could provide the most relevant insights into worldview transformation. This allowed me to keep interviewing until I reached theoretical saturation, meaning I had gained a full and deep understanding of the process. I even conducted pilot interviews early on to refine my approach and ensure I was capturing the true essence of their internal shift. So I asked several open ended questions to capture their raw, authentic stories. First, I asked about their lives before Christ to understand the deep roots of Juche. Then we Explored their internal encounter with the initial encounter with faith and the changes that followed. But the most revealing question was what was the hardest thing for you to change? That was the catch question. This was a turning point in my research because it exposed the residual influence, those parts of the Jucha worldview that were still clinging on. Finally, we explored the actual ways they navigated and overcame those internal struggles.
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Dave Broczek
Right. Thank you for those questions. So those are the questions you asked each one and you just followed their lead. Where did the answers take you and what did you hear? Maybe we could just explore your findings then.
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Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
My findings? Okay. Actually to. There's one real good story that explains my findings. So can I share the story of one participant?
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Dave Broczek
Yeah, I'd like to hear stories. It's one thing to hear numbers. And so many people said this, so many people said that, but we'd like to hear the story as well because.
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Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
His journey is a perfect reflection of the worldview transformation I observed. So instead of just listing data, I would like to walk you through his life in three stages. Actually, I will call this participant NM as a codename. It starts with his life before, where he lived in what I call survival mode. At that time, as a homeless orphan, his world was narrowed down to just two things. Shame and staying alive. Then came the turning point. He had what I describe as a collision with grace. This wasn't a quiet change. It was a powerful impact. That happened when he saw the radical sacrifice of missionaries and encountered the story of Jesus for the first time. And finally, the after he truly transformed into a humble servant. It's remarkable because he went from being a man consumed by anger to someone who now lives entirely for a mission. NM's early life wasn't just a struggle. It was a brutal, high stakes gamble with death. By his teens, his world had narrowed down to a single desperate mission. Staying alive while keeping his starving family fed. To support his sick father and siblings, N.M. worked as a vendor on trains. Unable to afford a seat, he had to cling precariously to the outside foot plates. During a horrific derailment, he watched as his fellow vendors, his friends, were crushed or killed instantly. NM survived by being thrown into a ditch, but he woke up to a sea of blood. In that moment of trauma, his only thought wasn't for the dead, was for his destroyed ice cream box, the sole lifeline for his family. Despite his desperate efforts, tragedy was inevitable. His father and younger siblings were lost to starvation and disease, eventually leaving him entirely alone. Then his transformation was not a peaceful transition, but a violent years Long struggle with a God who seemed to have failed him. In China, NM lived a dugout alongside missionaries who shared his humble meals of potato soup and kimchi. He was profoundly shocked to see this Korean American and Korean Canadian missionaries weeping for North Korea, claiming a land they had never lived in as their own nation. The breakthrough happened while he was watching a film about the life of Jesus in NM's world, the world of a street thief. He was a thief. The highest virtue was called in Korean. That's a code of absolute loyalty where you share even the smallest being with a friend. When he saw the nails piercing Jesus hands, he felt it like a nail through his own heart. Moved by this ultimate sacrifice, NM entered a relationship with God based on duty. He thought, if he died for me, I owe him my life. It was a rigid and duty bound faith, but it was the only way a hardened survivor knew how to love. Even after finding faith, NM lived under the constant shadow of repatriation. As China does not recognize North Koreans as refugees, he relied on God for protection. Yet he watched his mentors and fellow believers are dragged away by Chinese police in the middle of prayer meeting. After being arrested, interrogated himself, he became bitter. He demanded explanations to God. Why is no one being protected? God. And even more heart wrenching, why did you allow innocent children to starve to death? When he finally reached South Korea, he felt no joy. The bright lights of Incheon Airport were a haunting reminder of those who had died trying to reach that same freedom. For eight years, he abandoned his faith, drowning his trauma in alcohol and refusing to even acknowledge a God he found profoundly unfair. But the great love of God finally collapsed NM's worlds of resentment during a desperate night on a rocky shore in an island called Geoje. It's an island in Korea. After eight years of abandoning his faith, one night while drunk and shouting at God about the injustice of dying children, NM experienced a profound spiritual breakthrough. Suddenly he heard God speaking to him. He was saying, I've been waiting for you. This heart to heart. To Enab's desperate cry, God didn't give a lecture. He gave a reassurance of his sovereignty. God said, that is my business. You don't need to be consumed by the pain. It is mine to carry. God revealed that he is the ultimate father who personally welcomes those discarded children into his kingdom, sparing them from a cruel world. He was saying, I love them more than you ever could. Trust their souls to my hands. God silenced every doubt by pointing back to the cross he watched from the Jesus film. He reminded NM of his tears in China, whispering, this is who I am. Through the cross, God proved that he doesn't just watch our pain from distance, he entered into it. His heart then broke so that his heart broke so that ours could be mended. God then rewrote NM's history. From the heavy ice cream boxes slung over his shoulders to the horrific train extent, he showed that he had always been there, moving in the shadows of his life. God said, I was always behind you, even when you didn't know me. I preserved your life not for your comfort, but for the special mission I have for your people. So NM's transformation was a slow, layer by layer healing. The most beautiful evidence was in his marriage. When he had nothing, his wife embraced him, choosing his character over material security. But the real turning point was very mundane. When his pregnant wife craved something simple like a watermelon or a piece of fish, it would unexpectedly appear the next day through a neighbor's knock. To nm, these were not just groceries. They were love letters from a father. So they were tangible proof that he no longer had to risk his life on speeding trains to survive. God had replaced his survival instincts with a theology of provision. He realized he was no longer an orphan fighting for crumbs, but a son being cared for by a father. But he encountered. But a powerful example of Anna's transformation was a relational one. He encountered a woman who had deeply hurt and insulted him in the past. In his old world, she was an enemy to be defeated. But in his new world, she became a neighbor in need. When she fell into financial crisis, NM was just a poor stood seminarian struggling to support his own family. Yet instead of feeling revenge, he felt a supernatural nudge toward compassion. He took the little money he had and gave it to her. NM later reflected, this wasn't me giving. It was God giving through me. This is profound because for many North Korean defectors, letting go of hatred is the hardest battle. In a world of survival, resentment is often the only power they have. But Eneb's journey proved that a worldview change. It's not just intellectual. It is a slow, painful deepening of the soul. The logic of survival which demands revenge was finally replaced by the logic of grace. NM no longer lives in the paralyzing fear of not having enough or the bitterness of the past. Instead, he finds joy in being a conduit of a father who provides everything. Today, enemy rejects flesh ministry. He lives without masks, believing that true power of faith is found in simple, honest truth. Instead of seeking his own success, he now serves Fellow North Korean seminarians, having carried the same survivalist scars himself, he walks alongside them, helping them move away from fear and toward the logic of grace. Even though he still faces financial hardships, is no longer ruled by fear. He often says, I'm happy because the one who owns the whole world is my father. For nm, this transformation isn't a finished task. It's a daily journey of choosing to live as a humble conduit of God's grace and love. So NM's powerful story is not just an isolated incident. It's a profound reflection of a broader pattern I discovered across all 20 participants in my research. From their collective experiences, I have identified three core findings that define this worldview transformation. To start with the first finding, the process begins with a painful crumbling of the Juche ideology. First, there is a total disillusionment. Participants experienced a radical breakdown of trust when they realized the supreme leader, who they worshiped as an eternal God, was actually just a mortal man. He failed to provide even the most basic sustenance for them. This leads to dehumanization and survival mode. The trauma of a systematic betrayal, like being forced to report friends for a handful of light rice, reduce their humanity to raw survival instinct. As we saw in NMC youth, when a person is forced to live like a scavenging animal, dignity is lost. This is the first step to total collapse of this brutal and old world. And second, I found that convergence is not just an instant event. This is a gradual internalization. They must fight against the residual impact of their North Korean upbringing. For example, many struggled with what I call the judgmental reflex. It's a vending machine like habit of criticizing others. A reflex ingrained by decades of mandatory public criticism sessions known as Sanghwal chunghwa. The true change happens when they start surrendering self righteousness. As they surrender, they justify the resentment and replace the logic of survival with the logic of grace. They begin peeling away the scarred layers of their past. This is exactly what we saw in NM's experience on the island that night. The moment his walls of resentment finally collapsed. The third and most extreme significant finding is a profound restoration of identity. First, this transformation moves from the head to heart. It happened through what I call experiential knowledge. By seeing God as a loving and caring father. In the small mundane details of life, like the watermelon provided for enemy's wife, their face shifted from an abstract distant concept to a heart level reality. Second, this leads to a redirection of mission. Their identity shift fundamentally from being worthless slaves of a regime to valuable children of God, this new identity naturally redirects their entire life's purpose. They move away from the materialistic traps of both communism and capitalism, choosing instead a life dedicated to the restoration and healing of North Korea. In conclusion, this transformation is a radical shift from a God who demands everything to the God who gives everything. For NM and my research participants, it was a journey from a logic of survival where fear forced them to live like a beast, to the logic of grace. By internalizing the truth that they are children of a providing father, they have moved from being powerless slaves to conduits of grace. Like nm, they no longer live merely to survive. They live to fulfill a mission secure in the love of a God who truly provides. That is about my findings this Precedence.
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Dave Broczek
That's a beautiful sound. What I'm thinking is what you've just described for us is part of the beauty of qualitative research in which you ask people questions and they provide their answers in their own words, and you get these rich, thick, descriptive stories and you've given us the one from NM. But I'm sure you heard 20 very rich stories. If we had time if we had time, we'd ask you for more stories. But I'm conscious that this is a podcast that gives an overview of the book. May I ask you, in your interviews and in your analysis of the responses, did any of your findings surprise you? Did you learn things that you didn't know before?
- [39:26]
Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
Yes, absolutely. One of the most surprising, profound discoveries wasn't just what the participants said, but how they said it. I noticed a pattern of unconscious repetition. As the saying goes, out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. I found that I could actually track their worldview transformation through the density of their speech. It wasn't just intellectual knowledge, it was deep internalization. Let me give you two striking examples. First, one participant mentioned God answering her prayers 12 times in a single interview. For someone who spent decades relying solely on on the state, this repetition revealed a radical shift in her Reality, God was no longer a distant theory. He had become her practical daily provider. Second, another participant repeatedly spoke about God bringing sin to light seven times. In North Korea, sin is strictly defined as political disloyalty. However, she was referring to internal sins like self righteousness and judging others. Seeing a defector focus on inner transformation rather than external survival is a miracle. It shows the word of God dismantling years of rigid social conditioning. When I first saw these patterns in the data, the word internalization actually didn't even come to mind immediately. But I could clearly see the process happening. The Word was moving from their heads to their hearts. It was no longer a foreign concept. It had become their default language. It is their new reality. So the concept internalization, which is a.
- [41:24]
Dave Broczek
Key word, then, internalization.
- [41:26]
Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
That's why they repeat the same thing over and over.
- [41:29]
Dave Broczek
Right? Which tells you something important about what's going on in their mind and heart. For sure. Okay, you aimed to form a grounded theory from your inquiry. What theory did you construct based on what you heard, what you found?
- [41:51]
Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
Actually, to summarize the theory, as I have documented in my research. Can I just read to just summarize.
- [41:57]
Dave Broczek
What would be fine?
- [42:00]
Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
The worldview of individuals formerly shaped by Juche ideology undergoes a profound transformation as they cultivate a deepening relationship with God, ultimately leading to unity with His Word. This transformation unfolds through the internalization of Scripture sustained by persevering prayer. As participants progress in this journey, they experience God more intimately, gaining a deeper understanding of his character and purposes. The process continues until their lives are fully aligned with God's Word. Once Scripture takes root in this way, God's sovereignty and reign in the relevant areas of their lives become visible, often witnessed by those around them. This marks a significant shift toward a biblical worldview. It's a very simple version.
- [42:58]
Dave Broczek
Yes, yes. And a summary that I took. I don't know if this is an exact quote or so on, but it's the experiencing of God is the overarching concept. It's the not just knowledge of different religious precepts, but actually experiencing God that moves this whole process of worldview transformation along.
- [43:28]
Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
Actually, this process is constructed into three progressive stages. First, it is about gaining conception, which means the encounter. And second stage is the internalization through obedience, which means a struggle with the residuals. And third stage is actualization of God's Word, which is the path to maturity.
- [43:52]
Dave Broczek
And you saw this pattern in your research participants?
- [43:59]
Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
In my book, there is a diagram.
- [44:01]
Dave Broczek
In fact, I noticed one of the helpful features. I'll mention this for listeners. One of the helpful features are tables periodically that summarize what you're saying in the text and also then diagrams that show how the different findings relate to each other. We probably don't have time to go into all those, and those are visual, not just audible here as we're talking. But it's a good thing I'll just say this if I may. We didn't talk much about the previous literature that informed your study, but I just wanted to commend you for that review of the literature which came early in the book that really was quite informative, particularly for someone like myself who did not have a background in this. And you set the stage very well by building on what had previously been written on this topic. And I say that for the benefit of listeners who may want to then go ahead and get this book for themselves. Could we talk about the influence of this study now? Maybe what this study did for you personally. But then any feedback that you have received from readers so far personally this.
- [45:31]
Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
Study was a journey from heartbreak to clear mission. It led me to realize that what North Koreans truly need isn't just survival, but deeply knowing who God is and how he loved them. So I say this because it was so heartbreaking to see people waste years in spiritual distress simply because they had a distorted image of God. I'll never forget one man who spent eight years in a Chinese prison for helping North Korean defectors. What sustained him all those years was his own self righteousness, the pride of suffering for a novel cause. But right before his release, the foundation crumbled. He realized it was never about my sacrifice, it was only about God. The same was true for the participant aimed. I shared the story. Seeing how even good works can become distorted lands a barrier to God changed my entire perspective. It made me realize that if the internal frame is wrong, we can never truly experience God's heart. That's why I'm now all in on resetting worldviews. My focus has shifted to rebuilding a spiritual foundation where people can hear God's voice as a personal message of love. So moving forward, I want to deepen my research into the specific factors that hinder our worldview and prevent us from seeing God clearly. Ultimately, my mission is much simpler now. I've learned to step back from my own plans and focus entirely on what God wants and how he works. My goal is to ensure no more time is wasted and that his love becomes the firm final foundation for every life I encounter. Also, in regards to the feedback from the readers so Far, to be honest, since the book was published in the US Last July and is written in English rather than Korean, it hasn't reached a mass audience in Korea yet. However, the feedback from those who have encountered it, both in the west and among bilingual Koreans has been deeply moving. I can summarize it into three main points. First, it served as a spiritual mirror. Interestingly, many readers find themselves in these stories. They see how God breaks through the rigid Chu Chen ideology, and they begin to think, if God is dispersonal and pursuing in love a defector, he must desire that same intimacy would mean it transforms a book about North Korea into a bridge to their own personal faith. This leads to a second major shift, moving from pity to partnership. A lot of readers confess they used to view North Koreans simply as objects of pity or refuges in need. But through this research, they've started seeing them as souls undergoing a profound structural transformation. So their perspective shifted from charity to spiritual partnership, changing their prayer from Lord, give them bread, 2 Lord, establish youh Kingdom in their hearts. Finally, it challenges the myth of the spiritual wasteland. Readers are often stunned by the testimonies of faith surviving inside North Korea. It shatters the idea that the country is empty of God's presence. Instead, it inspires a new confidence that God is already moving sovereignly behind the borders, and our role is simply to join what he is already doing through prayer and the word.
- [49:23]
Dave Broczek
That's a good summary. And I noticed that you mentioned that your interviews were all conducted in Korean. The findings were published in English, which is quite an accomplishment here. And, yeah, what I'm also hearing is this is what's running through my mind. You may react to that or not, but so much of the time, those in South Korea, or even outside of Korea, look at North Korean people, Christians, defectors, as people that need help. They need help, they need our help. But what I'm hearing from these stories and so on is they actually have a lot to contribute to. To us.
- [50:06]
Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
That's right. You know, these are really strong people. Imagine, you know, people, you know, crossing the border, risking their lives. They are tough people. And really, as I was just telling about my. My story, the North Korean defector lady I met, Yunnon, Incredibly. Just a humble, but incredibly powerful.
- [50:33]
Dave Broczek
Then what implications for church and society do you see?
- [50:36]
Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
Yeah. The most profound implication of this research is that juche ideology, no matter how deeply it is nailed into a person, cannot be dismantled by logic or education alone. It requires a collision with laws. We must remember the history of the 1990s. During the arduous march while millions were starving inside North Korea, missionaries are already stationed along the Chinese border. They risked their lives and freedom knowing that helping defectors was an illegal act that could cost them everything. Many defectors fled seeking physical bread. But through the missionaries love that risked death, they encountered the bread of life. This sacrificial love was the original catalyst that cracked their hardened hearts. And secondly, I believe the church must go beyond simply teaching doctrine. Because of their long history of survival, North Koreans often carry a strong self and a defensive critical habit. You cannot overcome that sharpness through arguments or moral education. The only way to overcome them is not through moral arguments, but through the humility of Christ. When the Church shares love with persistent humility, a humility that observes their bitterness and criticism, their logic of survival finally begins to melt away, replaced by the identity of a child of God for society. Integration is not an ideological debate, but a restoration of personal dignity. Transformed Defectors are not just objects of pity or refuges to be re educated. They are mediators of reconciliation. They have crossed the valley of death and experienced grace, making them uniquely qualified to help heal the deep conflicts between north and South. The only force stronger than Chu Che ideology is the love of God. My hope is that South Korean Christians will be transformed first moving away from comfortable faith and embracing the same humble sacrificial love showing on the borders. In the 90s, our humility will become the foundation upon which God's kingdom is built in their hearts.
- [53:09]
Dave Broczek
Well, you've maybe answered my next question, which is how do you hope your book will be used?
- [53:16]
Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
I hope this book serves as both a methodological roadmap for academia and a strategic compass for those in the field. First, for the students and scholars, I wanted to be a practical guide for mastering grounded theory. I didn't just want to show the final result. I've laid out the entire process, from raw data to theory, so others can see exactly how qualitative research can be systematically built. Secondly, I hope it shifts our ministry priorities. Often we focus so much on economic aid or basic teaching, but we miss the most critical part, resetting the worldview frame. This isn't just for North Korean ministry. It is a universal principle. Whether we are rich in secular youth or in different cultures. The word won't take root unless we first address the internal lens. We have internal lens, so we have to move past the outward behaviors and focus on the deep structural alignment of the heart. Finally, I want this book to help us build a faith that transcends circumstances. We saw this with participants. NM despite his powerful initial encounters with missionaries, his understanding of God was still tied to his surroundings. When he faced suffering, he felt abandoned and left his faith for eight years because his worldview had nodded been structurally rebuilt. I hope this book teaches us to plant the love of God so deeply that people become like trees planted by the water. We aren't just looking for temporary emotional experiences. We want to help people build an unshakable identity as a child of God that stays firm regardless of the storm.
- [55:20]
Dave Broczek
Great summary. Thank you.
- [55:22]
Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
Thank you.
- [55:24]
Dave Broczek
As we wrap up these interviews, I always like to ask an author, what are you working on next?
- [55:31]
Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
Right now, my previous book hasn't been translated into Korean, so many people, especially in the Korean church, they have not had access to it. Also, since it's an academic book in English, the readership has been limited. So for my next project, I'm writing a new book in Korean that focuses on how a biblical worldview practically takes root in a person's life. I'll be using real life examples from my research from this book to show that God's transformation is a tangible force, not just an abstract concept. Looking ahead through 2026 2026, I'm also shifting my research toward the unresolved spaces of the soul. I've been in contact with some highly intellectual defectors, including one with a PhD in biotechnology, who still face deeply rooted internal challenges that traditional programs cannot reach. I want to explore these difficult spaces and share my findings in a journal article. My goal is to show how we as a community can offer more than just programs, but true accompaniment for those navigating the complex journey toward a biblical worldview.
- [56:55]
Dave Broczek
Thank you. I really appreciate your time and your willingness to be on this podcast, your willingness to be interviewed. I will say this, I hope that the readership expands way beyond just those who have a focus on Korea.
- [57:15]
Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
Thank you.
- [57:16]
Dave Broczek
I'm thinking of the principles that you've uncovered have a lot of applicability in many places around the world. So let me say thank you very much for being on the podcast and we certainly wish you well.
- [57:36]
Dr. Su Hwa Kyum
Thank you for having me. Once again, Dave, thank you.
- [57:46]
Dave Broczek
Sa.