Susan Goodier and Karen Pastorello, "Women Will Vote: Winning Suffrage in New York State" (Cornell UP, 2017)

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: New Books Network – “Women Will Vote: Winning Suffrage in New York State”

Host: Maryam Olubodi
Guests: Dr. Susan Goodier & Dr. Karen Pastorello
Book Discussed: Women Will Vote: Winning Suffrage in New York State (Cornell UP, 2017)
Date: April 4, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode explores the multifaceted and groundbreaking history of the women’s suffrage movement in New York State, as chronicled in Dr. Susan Goodier and Dr. Karen Pastorello’s book. The authors and host discuss the origins, strategies, diversity, and impact of the suffrage movement, delving into the social, economic, racial, and political dimensions of women’s fight for the vote. The conversation provides insights into both well-known leaders and the countless unnamed contributors, emphasizing the movement’s coalition nature and its enduring relevance.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Choosing the Book Title

• Publisher's Influence:
  • Authors’ intended title was “The Very Greatest Victory: Women Win the Right to Vote in New York State, 1846–1920,” inspired by a quote from Carrie Chapman Catt.
  • The final title, Women Will Vote, was selected by the publisher’s marketing director rather than the authors.
  • [03:33] Susan Goodier:

    “Most of the time, or at least in my experience, authors don’t get to choose their titles… in this case, the title was chosen by the marketing director at Cornell University Press.”

---

2. Origins and Impact of the Women’s Suffrage Movement

• Roots in Other Social Movements:
  • The suffrage movement evolved out of the anti-slavery/abolitionist movement, with women gaining organizational and speaking skills in that context ([04:16]).
• Lack of Rights for Women:
  • Before 1848, women, especially married women, had no rights over their bodies, children, earnings, or property, even being unable to testify in court ([04:14]).
  • The first legislative wins included the right to own property and eventually, to vote in school board elections—paving the way for broader rights ([06:17]).
• New York’s Leadership:
  • New York was pivotal, being the first state east of the Mississippi to grant women full voting rights in 1917 ([06:46]).
• Broader Impact:
  • Suffrage was seen as a gateway to advances in education, economic opportunity, and social standing for women.

---

3. Diversity and Coalition-Building

• Inclusive Movement:
  • The term “Women’s Suffrage Coalition” reflects the participation of many groups: rural women, immigrants (Jewish, Italian, Asian), Black, Indigenous, and men ([07:28]).
• Role of Religion:
  • The Quakers were especially supportive early on. Other faith communities also played significant roles.
• Ongoing Recognition:
  • Despite highlighting key leaders, the book underscores the importance of recovering stories of thousands of ordinary women and men, many still unnamed.
• Quote from Susan Goodier ([16:38]):

  “…success in any mass movement, any major sociopolitical changes, require concurrent activism across our differences, across diversity.”

---

4. Who Were the Suffragists?

• All-Encompassing Term:
  • Suffragists included everyone working for women’s right to vote, both paid/formal leaders (e.g., Susan B. Anthony, Anna Howard Shaw, Carrie Chapman Catt) and countless unpaid, unnamed grassroots workers ([09:26]).
• Differentiating Groups:
  • Although the common goal was voting rights, groups differed in ideology, class, and race.
    • Working-class women sought workplace improvement.
    • Black women sought an end to lynching and racism ([15:01]).
  • Most leadership came from the upper-middle and upper classes who had more resources and support ([16:14]).

---

5. Strategies for Achieving Suffrage

• Evolving Tactics:
  • Early strategies: Letters to legislators, petitions ([10:16]).
  • Escalation: Large public rallies, parades, suffrage wagons, stunts (dropping flyers from airplanes), door-to-door canvassing—especially targeting rural women ([11:09]).
  • Media Savvy: Mastered marketing and advertising suffrage; produced silent films, staged plays, and participated in creative events ([12:56]).
  • Picketing: New York women were among the first to picket the White House during WWI ([12:43]).
  • Skills gained in suffrage campaigns led many women to careers in marketing, advertising, and journalism.

---

6. Organizations Beyond the NYSWSA

• Multilayered Organization:
  • Local “political equality clubs” at village/town level—some as small as five members ([19:04]).
  • City, state, and national-level organizations like the Wage Earners League for Women’s Suffrage, Women’s Trade Union League, Empire State Federation of Women’s Clubs (umbrella for many Black women’s groups), and NAACP supported suffrage, even if not in their names ([19:04]).
  • College clubs and interfaith efforts also contributed.

---

7. Men’s League for Women’s Suffrage

• Male Allies:
  • Men, usually elite and well-educated, joined often at the encouragement of female relatives ([24:19]).
  • Contributions: Donations, public speaking, participating in parades (initially facing ridicule), acting in suffrage films ([25:30]).
  • Influence: Once men joined publicly, newspaper coverage and societal acceptance grew.
  • Notable Example: Max Eastman recruited college women and was a prominent socialist editor ([27:46]).

---

8. Traditional vs Modern Suffragism

• Generational Change:
  • Early suffragists (1840s) rarely appeared in public; activism was mostly private (letters, petitions) ([29:18]).
  • By the late 19th/early 20th century, new generations—college-educated and more confident—embraced public activism, rallies, and professional roles ([31:01]).
• Lasting Challenge:
  • Rights can be challenged and are not permanently secure—current changes in voting laws highlight this threat ([33:41]).

---

9. Impact of WWI (1914–1917) on the Movement

• Dual Influence (Top-down & Bottom-up):
  • Suffragists organized homefront efforts—surveying women’s talents for war work, efficiently combining suffrage outreach with patriotism ([34:27]).
  • President Wilson’s administration framed suffrage as a “war measure” to thank women for their contributions and align US democracy with its ideals ([36:28]).

---

10. Readings from the Book & Final Thoughts

• Historical Hardship:
  • Excerpt on Lily Devereaux Blake highlights social consequences faced by early leaders:

    “…after she began lecturing for the women’s suffrage movement, all of her relatives but her sister refused to maintain contact with her, and many of her socially well-connected friends cut her off.” ([37:48])

• African American Women:
  • Excerpt from chapter four draws attention to Black women’s pivotal roles and refusal to accept exclusion:

    “Black women forged inroads, connecting to white women's suffrage activism… However, black women refused to accept marginalization.” ([40:50])

• Resource & Legacy:
  • The authors intended their book as a resource for further research and as recognition of the movement’s transformative legacy, for both individual lives and broader society ([42:05]).

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Movement’s Diversity and Coalition:
  Susan Goodier [16:38]:

  “Their concurrent activism was critical to the ultimate success of the women’s suffrage movement. … Success in any mass movement, any major sociopolitical changes, require concurrent activism across our differences, across diversity.”

• On Men’s Involvement:
  Karen Pastorello [25:30]:

  “At first they were heckled… but eventually the parades became very popular… Once the men began to participate more openly, newspaper coverage expanded.”

• On the Ongoing Struggle:
  Susan Goodier [33:41]:

  “Despite the success of the movement, it’s not safe to assume that the work is done. …Rights aren’t guaranteed forever.”

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Title Selection: [02:32] – [03:51]
• Movement Origins and Early Conditions: [04:14] – [07:20]
• Coalition and Diversity: [07:28] – [09:00]
• Defining Suffragists: [09:26] – [10:09]
• Movement Strategies: [10:16] – [13:34]
• Coalitions and Ideological Differences: [14:01] – [17:48]
• Suffrage Organizations/Affiliated Groups: [18:20] – [21:28]
• Men’s League and Male Allies: [24:19] – [28:24]
• Traditional vs. Modern Suffragists: [29:18] – [34:09]
• Impact of WWI: [34:27] – [37:26]
• Readings from the Book: [37:47] – [42:05]
• Final Reflections and Research Legacy: [42:05] – [43:10]

---

Conclusion

This episode offers a comprehensive look at the struggle for women’s suffrage in New York, highlighting its origins, evolving strategies, diversity, transformative social impact, and the continuing relevance of both its successes and its unfinished work. The conversation is insightful and rich with anecdotes, making the complex, collective nature of the suffrage movement accessible—and timely—for contemporary listeners.

---

Transcript

[Lowe's Announcer]

Spring fest is happening now at Lowe's. Keep the spotlight on your yard with stay green premium 2 cubic foot mulch. 5 bags for $10. Plus when you want more help indoors, get up to 40% off. Select major appliances that help you supercharge your chores. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's. Valid to 422 while supplies last. Selection varies by location. See lowe's.com for details. Mold chauffeur excludes Alaska and Hawaii.

[Starbucks Frappuccino Advertiser]

Morning Decisions how about a creamy Mocha Frappuccino drink? Or sweet vanilla smooth caramel maybe? Or white chocolate mocha? Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks Frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries.

[TurboTax Advertiser]

Don't let tax refund worries hold you back. File now with TurboTax on Intuit credit Karma. They'll find every credit and deduction to help you get every refund dollar you deserve or your money back. Start filing today in the Credit Karma.

[Lowe's Announcer]

Welcome to the New Books Network.

[Maryam Olubodi]

Hello everyone. I am Maryam Olubodi de host. Today I have with me Dr. Susan Gaudier and Karen Pastorello, the authors of Women We Winnings of Rage in New York State, which was published by Cornell University Press in 2017. Dr. Susan Godier is an author and historian. She has served on the Board of Directors for New York History Journal. She is currently preparing a biography of Loza Maceda Jacobs, the daughter of Aria Jacobs and author of Incidents in the Life of a slave girl. Dr. Karen was the Chair of the Women and Gender Studies Program and Professor of History at Tomsky Cortland Community College, SUNY. Recently, Dr. Karin has helped document local sites on the national Vote for Women trail. Her books include A Power, among them Bessie Abram Moritz Hillman and the Making of the Amalgamated Clothing Workers of America, which was published by the University of Illinois Press in 2008, and women we Winning Suffrage in New York State, which was co authored with Suzanne Gaudier. You are welcome to the NBN doctors Susan and Karina.

[Dr. Susan Gaudier]

Well, we're glad to be here.

[Dr. Karen Pastorello]

Thank you.

[Maryam Olubodi]

All right. Yes, I would like to know, could you enlighten me and your audience on what informs your choice of title for the book?

[Dr. Susan Gaudier]

Thank you.

Well, I will answer that question. And actually, we did not choose the title of our book. Our choice of title was the Very Greatest Victory Women Win the Right to Vote in New York State, 1846-1920. And that was based on a direct quote from Carrie Chapman Catt, one of the leaders of the suffrage movement who, after the success of the New York State women's suffrage movement, which happened before the national amendment. She said, this is so awesome that women in New York have won the right to vote, because now all that energy will go to focus on a national amendment. And she called that victory, the very greatest victory. So most of the time, or at least in my experience, authors don't get to choose their titles or they're influenced by their publishers. And in this case, the title was chosen by the marketing director at Cornell University Press.

[Maryam Olubodi]

All right, that's interesting. That is interesting. So it was not actually your choice of title, but it was suggested by.

[Dr. Susan Gaudier]

Exactly.

[Maryam Olubodi]

All right, all right, that leads to the next question. What necessitates the women suffering movement and how does it impact on the sociopolitical lives of women in New York State?

[Dr. Karen Pastorello]

And I will take that one. The women's rights movement came together from many different movements, especially from the anti slavery movement, where many of the women that were already involved in the anti slavery, or sometimes it's called the abolitionist movement, learned how to organize others towards a cause. And they also learned speaking skills that they brought with them to the women's rights movement. It started at a time when women had almost no rights of their own. Especially married women lacked rights. In New York State, until 1848, women had no rights to their bodies, their children, their earnings. They could work in a factory for 50 or 60 hours a week, and their husbands, whether or not they were in the house with them, sometimes they were in the process of separating, could come to the factory and take all their wages without the women having anything to say. Women also couldn't own property in their own names. That would change exactly in 1848. But women in New York state could not even sit on a trial or. Or testify in front of a court. So the movement began as the women's rights movement to try to correct all these wrongs to women, to try to earn women's economic, social, and political rights. And eventually it concentrates on one right specifically, and that is on the right to women suffrage, which means women are seeking the vote. So women who were property owners in particular, wanted the right to vote because they had been paying taxes on their land or their property, but they had no representation whatsoever. A lot of the early movement for women's rights actually came from rural women, women who lived in the country and had their own farms or sometimes inherited farms when their husbands died. Gradually, women gained rights to vote in school board elections and eventually the right to vote at the state and federal levels. Once women in New York state got the right to vote. In 1917, they had the right to vote even for the President of the United States. Earlier than most states, New York was the first state east of the Mississippi to grant women the right to vote. They went on to try to expand their economic rights, the rights to hold certain jobs that they didn't have, and also the right to expand their education. At the same time, they were working towards an amendment at the federal level so that all American women would get the right to vote. With the 19th amendment in 1920, okay,

[Maryam Olubodi]

so with those with the suffrage movement, it did not only give the women the opportunity to vote.

[Dr. Karen Pastorello]

So in the book, we use the term Women's Suffrage Coalition to show the ways that all classes, races, ethnicities, genders and religions work together towards getting women's suffrage. When we talk about religion, it's the Quakers in particular who were the most supportive early on of women earning the right to vote. We also talk about Jewish and Italian immigrant women and recognize that other groups as well, Asian women and the indigenous people, were very important working towards getting votes for women. So when we use the term woman suffrage, we mean it to be an inclusive term that refers to everybody, whether they formally joined the movement or whether they were just working towards getting the right to vote in their own way. We know that tens of thousands of New York women and men eventually worked towards getting women's suffrage. Over the 67 years that it took for women in New York State to gain the right to vote all the way up to the presidency, we recovered many of the important leaders that go beyond the top tier leaders, but there are still many women and men actually who remain anonymous and are not written about yet. And we're hoping that eventually more and more of these people will be recovered.

[Maryam Olubodi]

Thank you very much. Like I was saying, Aliyah, the Women's of Rape movement did not only give the women the access to vote, the right to exercise franchise, it also enhances them, their educational and economic development. All right, now in the book, what category of people do you refer to as the suffragists, if I may ask?

[Dr. Karen Pastorello]

So we're referring to anybody who works towards women getting the right to vote as being a suffrage. Some were paid, some were formal leaders, like for instance, Susan B. Anthony and Anna Howard Shaw and Carrie Chapman Catt. And some of the women that we know and hear more about, many of those women through fundraising, actually are paid. But we have, as I was saying, thousands of ordinary people who worked in many different ways that we'll detail in a few minutes to help women get the right to vote, but they worked as unpaid suffrage workers.

[Maryam Olubodi]

All right, what are the strategies of the women's suffrage movement toward achieving their set goals?

[Dr. Karen Pastorello]

So the strategies of the women's suffrage movement change over time, mainly because the suffragists were so skilled at adapting the different ways they saw would be most effective in getting results. So, in other words, they were pragmatic, they tried lots of different things, and whatever worked, they stuck with. And whatever they saw they might need, they developed or created. So very early on in the 1840s, the suffragists started informally and individually, really writing letters to state legislators, hoping to get the laws changed. Eventually, they presented formal petitions in the legislative meetings. And as time went on, by the early 1900s, we see them being much more proactive, and they really become experts at marketing and advertising suffrage. So, for instance, one of the really big ways, in addition to mass meetings and rallies, was to hold suffrage parades. And. And especially in the big cities like New York, for example, almost every year, beginning in the early 20th century, there would be huge suffrage parades. And as time went on, more and more audience participants, more and more of the audience would become participants. They also used a variety of stunts, things like dropping literature and brochures from aeroplanes. They used automobiles, which were brand new and in themselves attracted attention to campaign for suffrage. They used a suffrage wagon that was sometimes even pulled down beaches to advertise suffrage. They went door to door in what was called canvassing for suffrage, especially in the rural areas. Because even though a lot of people think of New York and New York state as being a very urban state, in reality, New York state is mainly a rural state with most people farming until 1910. So when the suffragists were going door to door canvassing, what they were really doing is trying to speak with the farmers. And especially they did that through getting to the farmers wives and trying to approach the farms when they knew the farmers would not be out in the fields. They followed up all their campaigning with education whenever they could, and they even picketed at the White House during World War I. They were the first protesters to do so. In 1917, many New York women participated in what is actually a national White House Protestant. So they're considered brilliant, these suffragists, in terms of the marketing skills they have. And many of them once suffragists, one go on and forge careers in advertising and marketing and even journalism because of the skills that they develop as part of campaigning for suffrage.

[Maryam Olubodi]

Oh, that's. I like that. So they use diverse strategies yes, very much.

[Dr. Karen Pastorello]

Yes.

[Maryam Olubodi]

Many strategies. That's impressive. You mentioned all the disparate groups, including the rural women, the working class, immigrant women, black women, misofragists, and the radical women. What differentiates this group of women? Do they have a common interest?

[Dr. Susan Gaudier]

Yeah, and this is Susan, and I'll take this question. So the common interest for all of these groups is that they each recognized that women would benefit from having the right to vote, that the right to vote was powerful. They also gave the vote a lot of power in and of itself. Many of these groups of women believed that the vote was. Was the ticket to other rights. And I'll give you some examples as I answer this question. And any one of these groups would have excluded any of the other groups if it meant their own group would get the right to vote. So the vote is their common interest.

What differentiates them is that each group

adhered to a particular ideology or identified with a particular class or race or a rural or urban living situation. So, for example, working class women believed that the vote would help them improve their workplace conditions and their wages. African American women believed that obtaining the vote would help them end lynching and other racist and violent practices. So each group had their. They put onto the vote the power to change and or improve their situations. The leaders in each of these groups, and there were rural leaders and there were urban leaders, the leaders tended to be from the upper, middle, and upper classes. But that's because those groups are the ones that would have the time and the money, and usually household servants and.

Or supportive husbands, fathers, even brothers, that

would enable them to devote time to a cause outside of their own homes. So there's a lot of differences in the groups, but there's also this common interest. So even though they didn't formally work

together,

their concurrent activism was critical to the ultimate success of the women's suffrage movement. So these groups defined and shaped the complex network that's necessary to define any mass movement, and in this case, the women's political rights in the state of New York. So that is really the lesson of our book. Even though we focus on the history

of the movement and the history of

women's suffrage, what we learned and what we think is one of the most important elements of the story is that it's true. Even today, success in any mass movement, any major sociopolitical changes, require concurrent activism across our differences, across diversity.

[Maryam Olubodi]

Thank you. That's quite a nice position. So the common interest for these diverse categories of women is the right to vote, which is actually their primary him but what differentiates them is they are different ideologies, but they were able to record success in every mass movement. Okay, yes. Apart from the New York State Women Suffrage association, are there other women organizations with similar interests at those periods?

[Dr. Susan Gaudier]

Yes, and I'll. And I'll take this one as well. There are many groups that support suffrage for women. And what we learned in the process of doing this research is that there at multi levels, concurrently. So at the local level and all these regional, I mean, excuse me, rural areas, there are political equality clubs and leagues. Some of them had only five members and some of them had more than 100 members. But they were in all of these small, these rural areas and small towns and villages.

So there are many groups that supported the suffrage for women. Some of them were at the very local level, especially in rural areas. Virtually every village and town supported that supported suffrage and had a group had political equality clubs or political equality leagues. And women might be five women in a town or it might be 100 women in a larger community that would gather to support women's suffrage. Colleges had suffrage clubs, and then at the city level there would be clubs such as the New York City Woman's Suffrage Party. And then there were state level organizations such as the Wage Earners League for Women's Suffrage. And there were branches of some of the national level groups. So for example, there would be women's organizations that were for. Ostensibly for other purposes, and there would be branches within local branches that would support the right to vote. Many groups supported women's suffrage but didn't have the term suffrage in their name. So an example of that would be the International League for Peace and Freedom or the national association for the Advancement of Colored People, better known as the NAACP or the Women's Trade Union League. They supported women's suffrage. It was in their platforms, but it isn't in their title, in their name. One of the groups that I found extremely interesting was the Empire State Federation of Women's Clubs, which was an umbrella organization that included a number of African American women's groups and clubs. And all of these supported women and women's rights. Right to vote.

[Maryam Olubodi]

That's great.

[Eglis Advertiser]

Eczema is unpredictable, but you can flare less with epglis, a once monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema. After an initial four month or longer dosing phase, about four in 10 people taking Eglis achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year

with monthly dosing HempGlass Lebricizumab LBKZ, a 250mg injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals, or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Ebglis. Before starting Eglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection.

Ask your doctor about eglis and visit ebgliss.lilly.com or call 1-800-LilyRx or 1-800-545-5979.

[Depop Advertiser]

Your little one grew three inches overnight. Adorable. Also expensive. Sell their pint sized pieces on Depop and list them in minutes with no selling fees because somewhere a dad refuses to pay full price for the clothes his kids will outgrow tomorrow and he's ready to buy your son's entire wardrobe right now. Consider your future growth bird budget secured and start selling on Depop where taste recognizes taste. Payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply. See website for details.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

K Pop Demon Hunters Haja Boy's Breakfast Meal and Hunt Tricks Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that Rumi?

[Dr. Susan Gaudier]

It's not a battle.

[Starbucks Frappuccino Advertiser]

So glad the Saja boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.

[Dr. Susan Gaudier]

It is an honor to share.

[Starbucks Frappuccino Advertiser]

No, it's our honor.

[Depop Advertiser]

It is our larger honor.

[Maryam Olubodi]

No really stop.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side.

[TurboTax Advertiser]

Ba da ba ba ba and participate

[Eglis Advertiser]

in McDonald's while supplies last.

[State Farm Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips. That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over 19,000 local agents, they help you find the coverage that fits your needs so you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go [e-mail] like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[Maryam Olubodi]

So at the communal level there are different women groups at the state level and at the national level, there are different groups. That's. That's impressive. What. What led to the emergence of the Men's League for Women's Suffrage? And how proficient was the association to echoing women's right to exercise franchise?

[Dr. Karen Pastorello]

So this is Karen, again. Most of the men in the Men's League for Women's Suffrage came into it mainly because they were encouraged by their wives, their sisters, their mothers, or other female relatives, or sometimes even girlfriends to join the movement. Most of the men in the Men's League for Women's Suffrage tended to be elite men, meaning they held prestigious jobs that paid well. And because many of them were quite wealthy, they were able to donate money to the cause, which was very helpful because always, as with any social movement, fundraising and money was extremely important. So they were able to support the woman's suffrage movement financially. They also did things like appeared in films. The women's suffrage movement produce many actual silent movies, black and white silent movies at the time, and some of them appeared in these films. They also had plays and other kinds of productions. But one of the major ways that men became active in the movement through the Men's Suffrage League was through parades. And we have a picture, actually in our book, of the 1915 Women's Suffrage Parade in New York City, which is really interesting because men had started a few years earlier, not only watching, but especially marching in the parades. And at first they were heckled. In other words, people in the audience or in the parade crowd watching the parade made fun of the men. And they would say, go home to your wife or your mother's calling you, or say something really sarcastic like that. But eventually the parades became very popular, and the men who marched in the parade and were part of the League for Men's Suffrage also tended to have very public positions. Some of them were college professors, some were leading bankers, lawyers, civic leaders, and even politicians began to participate in the Men's League for Women's Suffrage. What the women do is they eventually begin to endorse candidates, male candidates, of course, who support the cause. And many of these politicians, as I said, become active in the movement itself. So in addition to donating money and becoming more publicly visible, newspaper coverage also expanded once the men began to participate more openly, in part because men owned most of the major newspapers that began to cover the parades much more openly. There was one man in particular that we can see as an example, and that was a man named Max Eastman, who came into the movement and into the Men's League for Women's suffrage through both his mother and his sister, and even his girlfriend, a woman by the name of Ida Roe, was a suffragist. So he was known to be a very articulate speaker. And he was also extremely handsome. He went out to the college campuses and he was really effective in recruiting young women co eds who, as we say in the book, I think, swooned over Max Eastman. And he eventually draws many of the younger women, especially college educated younger women, into the movement. He was also a socialist and editor of a very prominent newspaper called the Masses at the time.

[Maryam Olubodi]

All right, thank you, Susan. I would like to say from here that women are powerful because when I was listening to how they were, men groups started. You mentioned that men started joining the movement by virtue of maybe their family members, their wives, their, their girl, even their girlfriends. That's quite, that's quite interesting. And at the end of the day, they ended up contributing a lot to the women suffering movement, such that even women has to endorse any man that is going to join the movement. That's, that's I, I find kind of very interesting.

[Dr. Susan Gaudier]

Yeah, it is.

[Maryam Olubodi]

All right. Could you comment on the differences between the traditional women's suffragist and the modern suffragist movement? Thank you.

[Dr. Susan Gaudier]

Yes, yes, this is Susan, and I'll take on, or try to take on this question, answer it as best I can. So the movement takes place over six, almost seven decades. And so there are dramatic changes in what this movement was like for the women who were involved. And keep in mind that over that 60 or 70 years, we're talking about three generations of women. So in fact, there's really only one woman who was involved in 1848 who lived long enough to be eligible to vote in 1917. And so there's a lot of change over time. In the beginning, women. So in the 1840s, women were very rarely seen in public alone. They would spend their time mostly at home, taking care of the home, taking care of the children, staying out of the public sphere almost entirely. What we see gradually is that women begin to be out in public a little bit more. But this is a gradual process. So in the beginning, women would do things like writing letters or petitioning, as Karen talked to us about before, but things that you don't do in public. So those are the early, more traditional women's suffragists. They're limited in their access to the public domain. But now, as time has gone on and women are beginning to take jobs outside of their homes, this would begin with the American Civil War having to take over for men who were fighting in the military, they were beginning to go out and take some of the jobs. As the Industrial revolution expanded over time, and they would be spending more time in the public domain. The other thing that became very important and that changed the way that women were involved in the suffrage movement was, and we've mentioned this already, that they were beginning to go to college. So that begins really in about the 1870s. Some of the colleges that are established for the education of women specifically, or colleges like Columbia or Cornell or Harvard, that had women's branches. And so this would get women out in public much more. And that also dovetails with the idea that the kinds of activities that women engaged in that would promote the suffrage movement became more public, more innovative, more creative, and those. We've already talked about those kinds of activities. But as it became more acceptable for women to be in public, they gained confidence in public speaking. The movement becomes much more fashionable. They're more educated, so they're comfortable speaking in public. They had groups, some of their clubs and groups would actually allow women to practice speaking in public. And that helped the movement and changed the movement to a more modern kind of movement. And I want to end this question by pointing out that despite the success of the movement, it's not safe to assume that the work is done. There are challenges to women's right to vote. Some things that we're actually seeing today, those rights aren't guaranteed forever. And because rights can be taken away or changed by changing voting laws, that makes a risk that some women will be not allowed to vote. So it's a major concern.

[Maryam Olubodi]

Okay, talking about war, because when you were. Susan was talking earlier, she mentioned the war. So I would like to ask of what impact was the war between August 1914 and 1917 on the women's sovereign movement?

[Dr. Susan Gaudier]

So this is Susan again, and I'll take on this question. The. The impact of the war is from both the top down. So an impact from the president and the administration and Congress, and then also from the bottom up from people. By the time of the war, by the time of 1914, suffragists have the kind of talent and experience that allows them to figure out ways to reach people. So for example, they conducted a door to door survey of all of the people that lived in cities and towns and communities to discover what kind of talents women had that would help to replace men if those men went off to war. And so were they good at mathematics, or were they lawyers, or were they able to coordinate efforts at the administrative levels. So even though suffragists, almost all suffragists, were opposed to war, many were involved in pacifism. They could work on these efforts. So they would go door to door, knock on the door, what kind of education and talents do you women have just in case, to help with the war effort? And then they would say, oh, and by the way, do you support suffrage for women? And they would hand them a brochure or a broadside that would have suffrage information in it. And in that way gathered more adherents

for the right to vote.

Now, from the top down, it eventually got to the point, despite women picketing the White House, that President Wilson, Woodrow Wilson, decided he could make it a war measure. Women should get the right to vote because they did so much for the war effort. And this is a way to thank them for supporting the war effort. And he perhaps too, became aware of the incongruity of fighting a war to make the world safe for democracy, when the women in the United States did not have the same kind of rights that we're entitled to under a democratic government. So two ways, both ends. And it ended up with the same kind of results. Although it took time, it is good

[Maryam Olubodi]

to know that they were actually impacted positively on the Women's of Brave movement. I must say I'm impressed at this. All right. On a final note, could you read a part of the book that interests you to give the audience a glimpse of what you expect?

[Dr. Susan Gaudier]

Yes.

This was a challenge for us because there are so many points and quotes and things we wanted to say. So I want to read a couple of short paragraphs. The first one is from chapter one, which is called. It's actually our introduction, and it's called From Ridicule to Referendum. Lily Devereaux Blake of New York, like many other women, resented the exclusion of women from economic and political life, but also feared joining in the abused and ridiculed movement that was woman suffrage in the late 1860s. Despite her fear, she visited the office of the women's rights paper called the Revolution at its headquarters in the Women's Bureau in Manhattan, where she met Elizabeth Cady Stanton. In Blake's case, after she began lecturing for the women's suffrage movement, all of her relatives but her sister refused to maintain contact with her, and many of her socially well connected friends cut her off. The ebb and flow of the woman's suffrage movement reflected the dynamic social, economic and political changes taking place in the national context during periods of great upheaval in the United States. At the same time, the movement itself caused social and political turmoil. With roots in revolutionary rhetoric nurtured during the antebellum period and abolition, the woman suffrage movement endured throughout the course of westward expansion, the Civil War and Reconstruction, and culminated in the Progressive era. In the process, women opened for themselves new opportunities in the social and political spheres. The last piece that I'd like to read is about African American women, and this is from chapter four, a fundamental component, suffrage for African American women. Black women's suffrage activism began in the years after the Civil War and continued unabated throughout the battle for women's voting rights. Black women leaders, often forerunners in their professions, dominated efforts for suffrage in New York. Far too many issues required their attention and they could not promote racial uplift nor ignore racism and economic woes in the sole interest of enfranchisement. Their club work helped them to challenge institutions in society that restricted black rights. Beyond their activism as members of the Equal Suffrage League, the Susan B. Anthony Club, or other suffrage organizations, black women incorporated suffrage goals into virtually all aspects of their activism. Black women forged inroads, connecting to white women's suffrage activism and by establishing relationships with white suffrage activists, affiliating their organizations wherever possible, attending white women's conventions, and involving themselves in state level legislative efforts. However, black women refused to accept marginalization. Fannie Berrier Williams counseled women against discouragement that by writing that black women are furnishing material for the first chapter and shall someday recite, the discouragements endured, the oppositions conquered, and the triumph of their faith in themselves. In the meantime, black women's suffrage contributions were critical to the ultimate victory of women's enfranchisement.

[Dr. Karen Pastorello]

One of our major.

[Maryam Olubodi]

Please go ahead.

[Dr. Karen Pastorello]

One of our major goals in writing the book, this is Karen, was to amass a resource guide for anyone who wanted to research suffrage in their own communities, to look perhaps at political quality clubs or even their own ancestors. We're hoping that scholars and students of women's rights will benefit from this book in their own projects. By the end of the movement, they were very skilled at market analysis, keeping track of voting statistics, and even creating women's voting parties. They, in conclusion, had the time of their lives, and for many of them, the women's suffrage movement helped them determine the trajectory of not only their careers, but their lives. And it gave them a sense of autonomy that they perhaps never had before. So we both hope that you enjoy reading this book as much as we enjoyed researching and writing it. Thank you.

[Maryam Olubodi]

All right, thank you very much. Doctors Susan and Carrie, thank you for joining me on the new books on women history today. I hope to see you again. Thank you.

[Dr. Susan Gaudier]

We hope so, too.

[Dr. Karen Pastorello]

Thank you. Marianne.

[Eglis Advertiser]

Foreign.

[Starbucks Frappuccino Advertiser]

Hey, sorry to interrupt your playlist, but this is better than music. It's free stuff. Download TikTok, search, slash free and share the link. To get items for free, start slashing now.