Podcast Summary:

New Books Network – Susanna Elm, "The Importance of Being Gorgeous: Gender and Christian Imperial Rule in Late Antiquity"
Host: Mike Motea
Guest: Susanna Elm
Date: January 6, 2026

Episode Overview

This engaging episode delves into Susanna Elm’s latest book, The Importance of Being Gorgeous: Gender and Christian Imperial Rule in Late Antiquity (UC Press, 2025). Elm and host Mike Motea explore how gender, especially as performed and constructed at the highest levels of Roman power, was integral to the operation of imperial authority in the late Roman Empire. They discuss shifting ideals of masculinity (or "virness"), the role of beauty and adornment, the queering of power dynamics, and how imperial presentation—including clothing, law, and rhetoric—shaped and reflected late antique governance. The conversation is rich in insight, pulling topics relevant to both ancient and modern politics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rethinking Gender and Power in Late Antiquity

• Elm’s Focus: Elm centers gender—specifically performances and ideals of elite masculinity—in the exercise of Roman political power. She challenges the common approach that relegates gender analysis to women or marginal figures.
  • Quote: “I am interested in the nature of power and authority: who has it, who does not have it, and why… that includes what we think power should look like.” (06:39)
• Modern Resonance: Elm draws analogies to contemporary leadership aesthetics, noting the coded performances of gender by political figures today.
  • “You can think of Obama or Hillary Clinton or Angela Merkel… all wear suits. Why is that?” (08:45)

2. Terminology: Virness vs. Masculinity; The Meaning of “Gorgeous”

• Virness (Virtus): Elm prefers the Latin-rooted “virness” or “virtus,” which folds status and elite manhood together—distinct from modern readings of masculinity. It accommodates a spectrum from babies to eunuchs to emperors, and even imperial women.
  • Quote: “In the late ancient world, [gender and status] are always intrinsically linked…imperial women are also part of virness.” (09:54)
• Gorgeousness: Chosen for the title, “gorgeous” captures sumptuous clothing, spectacle, brilliance, and crucially, its male/male erotic undertones.
  • Quote: “Gorgeous has… a little bit of a male, same sex, gender, erotic connotation. And that is really important because same gender, that is male on male erotic desire, I think is absolutely key to the entire argument.” (11:38)

3. Shifts in Imperial Manliness & the Child Emperor Phenomenon

(14:00–18:00)

• Historical Moment: Elm analyzes the late 4th and early 5th centuries, seeing not a “crisis” but a series of shifts in imperial virness. External pressures (barbarian migrations, civil wars) and internal ones (Christianization, elevation of child emperors) catalyzed new presentations of power.
  • Quote: “I would like to call it a series of shifts in the notion of imperial virness…” (13:16)
• Christian Influence: Christian concepts (e.g., “father and son must be of the same essence”) are made visible in power structures—such as making babies co-emperors, which symbolizes eternity, unity, and love.
  • Quote: “When you make your very small child, your young son co-emperor, then you’re overriding age differences, you’re suggesting something about eternity... creating something subtle, soft, smooth…” (17:12)

4. Oratory and the Construction of the Imperial Image

(17:12–23:25)

• Panegyric of Theodosius: Pacatus' speech praises Theodosius by contrasting him with the usurper Magnus Maximus, using gendered language: the victorious emperor is both 'hard' (military, masculine) and 'soft' (maternal mercy).
  • Quote: “He embraces the defeated with his maternal pity… his misericordia embraces all in his soft mother’s bosom…” (17:12)
• Gender as Flexible: The emperor’s 'virness' is a matter of imperial will—one can gain or lose it instantly, according to political and rhetorical circumstances.
  • Quote: “If you lose, you move in an instant from the apex of supreme imperial manliness to… an ambiguously gender homegrown slave…” (22:42)

5. Clothing, Law, and Political Messaging

(24:00–27:40)

• Sumptuous Dress as Imperial Propaganda: Laws about dress (boots, jewels, pants) do more than regulate fashion—they signal who controls elite performances of virness and serve as warnings.
  • Quote: “Legislation not only regulates what you should wear, but they actually always signal imperial intentions…You are signaling your displeasure with certain forms of elite comportment.” (24:34)
• Imperial Vestments as Power: The emperor’s cloak becomes his body; splendor in clothing conveys and constitutes authority, emphasizing the performative nature of power.

6. Sexuality, Hierarchy, and Anxiety

(27:40–41:03)

• Fears of the Young, Manipulated Emperor: Stories like Heliogabalus (in Historia Augusta) warn of the instability wrought by child emperors, especially fears about sexual and political domination.
  • Quote: "[The Heliogabalus story] is a complete threat of the most important power relations…this is the Emperor…God…and he is being [bleep] by somebody else. And that is just the worst." (32:40)
• Stilicho and the Emergence of 'Father Figures': Court poetry (Claudian’s panegyrics) recasts military guardians as necessary stabilizers, allowing youthful beauty and eroticized power to coexist with martial authority.
  • Quote: “Honorius then has a father by his side…the father can fight the battles, whereas the emperor…will become the most beautiful, sublime, best trained emperor…” (32:40–38:10)

7. Beauty, Diplomacy, and Philanthropy as Power

(41:03–48:06)

• New Rhetorics: Themistius’ panegyric to Theodosius marks a shift—instead of only military conquest, mercy and philanthropy (even “seductiveness”) are praised as supreme imperial virtues.
  • Quote: “Philanthropy becomes a weapon that the Emperor yields.” (46:29)
• Transforming Constantinople: Theodosius’ building programs and church dedications create new court rituals enshrining humility and mercy as imperial traits, entrenching Christianized notions of power.

8. Eunuchs, Gender Subversion, and Court Politics

(50:08–69:03)

• Eutropius and the Limits of Queered Power: Claudian’s vicious poetic attack on Eutropius, the eunuch consul, interrogates the uneasy overlap between stunning consular dress and the “ugly” non-virile body beneath. Eunuchs have been essential but their ascension to consulship provokes anxiety about the shifting boundaries of political virness.
  • Quote: “Claudian rips apart that beautiful consular robe to let you see at every moment the decrepit, ugly body underneath it…” (53:38)
• Eastern vs. Western Perspectives: In Constantinople, where Eutropius rises under Arcadius, there is more acceptance of a smooth, soft, non-binary virness, though not without critics like Synesius.
  • “I do think at that point, imperial smoothness, softness, that more capacious vision… had percolated for quite some time...” (58:34)

9. Critique, Downfall, and Divine Mercy

(66:23–71:41)

• Eutropius’ Fall: When Eutropius loses imperial favor, his execution is set amid drama—fleeing to the church and being the subject of John Chrysostom’s sermons, which use his fate to meditate on mercy, humility, and the vicissitudes of power.
  • Quote: “John Chrysostom makes use of this entire episode… to plead for philanthropy, mercy… We sort of become like Eutropius to show that we are all dependent on God’s mercy… So that the emperor himself is often dependent, as it were, right, on God’s mercy and therefore then should show a little bit of humility.” (69:21)
• Collective Negotiation: Elm argues that all these writings allow us to glimpse how elites negotiated the meanings of manliness, power, and leadership—and, to some degree, what imperial self-presentation aimed to achieve.

10. Queerness at the Center of Power

(71:41–74:45)

• Queerness Beyond Identities: Elm uses “queerness” to designate the exuberant, non-binary, above-category divinity and power at the heart of late Roman rulership—an insight paralleling similar gender-bending transitions among ascetics and monks.
  • Quote: “The more divine you are, the less you are conceived in quote unquote binary ways... the emperor’s manliness is above and beyond binaries...exuberantly beyond binary.” (72:03)
• Erotics of Power: The beauty of power and the power of beauty are inseparable, shaping not just gender rhetoric but the fate of the empire.
  • “Your power makes beauty beautiful and beauty makes power beautiful, and whatever beauty that takes.” (74:45)

11. Final Reflections

(75:08–78:13)

• Elm’s Hopes for Readers/Scholars: She wants the book to provoke conversation, to keep us vigilant about the mechanics of power, and to encourage deep, joyful engagement with primary sources.
  • Quote: “It’s important to keep a close watch on power…to try and understand what makes power attractive, who yields it and why…Even though we may want to—and of course, everybody thinks about the things they want to think about—but I actually think we can’t afford not to try to understand power, in our own time as well.” (75:16)
• Future Projects: Elm is working on essays about power and dress and a new book project provisionally titled Augustine the Economist, focusing on Augustine, enslavement, taxation, and money. (77:35)

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• On virness:
  “What I’m tracing is a very, very broad spectrum of being a vir, that ranges from a baby via a eunuch to the most sacred and divine emperor… with women and girls, young women mixed into it all.” (09:54, Elm)
• On gorgeousness and eroticism:
  “Gorgeous… has all the connotations of superb, spectacular, grand, brilliant… and also more… it does have a little bit of a male, same sex, gender, erotic connotation.” (11:38, Elm)
• On clothing and control:
  “Laws… are really effective means by which emperors can communicate with their subjects… you’re signaling your displeasure with certain forms of elite comportment.” (24:34, Elm)
• On queerness at the heart of power:
  “The more divine you are, the less you are conceived in quote unquote binary ways. The divine—God, the emperor’s manliness—is above and beyond binaries... exuberantly beyond binary.” (72:03, Elm)

Notable Moments and Timestamps

• [09:54] – Elm explains why “virness/virtus” is a better heuristic than “masculinity” for late antique context.
• [17:12] – Discussion of Pacatus’ panegyric and the new assemblage of imperial virtues.
• [24:34] – Laws and ostentation: fashion, legislation, and imperial messaging.
• [32:40] – On imperial anxieties: Heliogabalus, domination, and child emperors.
• [38:10] – Recasting Honorius and the power of youth, beauty, and fatherly generals.
• [46:29] – The construction of philanthropy, mercy, and diplomacy as imperial “weapons.”
• [53:38] – Claudian’s attack on Eutropius and the politics of gendered attire.
• [69:21] – John Chrysostom’s sermons as meditations on the fallibility of power.

Overall Tone

The conversation is lively, occasionally humorous, deeply erudite, and open to the richness and subtleties of gender, politics, and history. Elm’s insights carry an analytic rigor blended with curiosity, and the interplay with Motea keeps the discussion accessible and engaging throughout.

Takeaways for Listeners

• Imperial power in the late Roman world was constructed through, and dependent upon, performances of gender, beauty, and even queerness.
• Gorgeousness, attractiveness, and clothing were not distractions from political work, but were essential instruments of rule—persuading, unifying, and controlling the elite.
• Ancient notions of manliness and authority were fluid, performative, and, at their divine apex, beyond binary.
• Contemporary debates about the presentation of power and gender have deep historical roots, inviting us to question how we see and interpret both past and present rulers.