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Tamara Kay, "Sesame Street Around the World: Culture, Politics, and Transnational Organizational Partnerships" (Oxford UP, 2025)
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Welcome to the New Books Network.
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Hello, and welcome to another episode on the New Books Network. I'm one of your hosts, Dr. Miranda Melcher, and I'm very pleased today to be speaking with Dr. Tamara Kay about her book titled Sesame street around the World, Culture, Politics and Transnational Organizational Partnerships, published by Oxford University Press in 2025. Now, obviously, the book talks about Sesame street, right? Which. Which is very well known. What is perhaps less well known is how exactly it works behind the scenes, because Sesame street is all over the world, and yet not in the way that a lot of other shows are all around the world. We're not talking about kind of one episode of a TV show that's broadcast identically and accessed in many different countries. We're actually talking about sort of, in a way, different versions of the same show that are specific to different contexts, which is really interesting. And also, as the title suggests, there's an organizational component that's absolutely necessary to make this happen. This is not something that can just be sort of copy and pasted with one tiny little tweak. It's a much more involved process than that. Which is intriguing, right? That's intriguing from an organizational point of view, from a historical point of view, in terms of how cross cultural exchange works. There's so many questions we could ask to investigate this. And. And that's what this book does, is asks a bunch of questions and helps us understand what's going on. So, Tamara, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast to tell us about your work.
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Thank you so much for having me. This is really, really an honor.
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Well, I'm very pleased to have you, too. Could you start us off by introducing yourself a little bit and tell us why you decided to write this book?
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So I am Tamara Kay, and I am a professor at the University of Pittsburgh, arrived here in July of 2025. So I'm new here. I started writing this book when I was on the faculty at Harvard University back in 2007. I had seen a documentary called the World According to Sesame street, which I highly recommend folks to take a look at. And as I was watching how the folks from Sesame Workshop, which is the organization that creates Sesame street with local partners, when I watched how they were actually creating these programs in the film, in the documentary Kosovo, South Africa and Bangladesh, as a sociologist, I was really, really interested in how they made this work because it's not just the television program, it's also what are called outreach projects. They're really community outreach projects and really development projects from the perspective of someone like me who actually studies development and organizations and NGOs. So I was really interested in how they made this work because it's really not the standard model that's used when development organizations in the United States or Canada or Western Europe go to other low income countries and work on projects together as a team. And so I was really interested in how they create these transnational teams and how they localize a cultural product, in this case Sesame street and its outreach projects, so that it really is seen to be local and authentic. And this is the case across the world because they do a lot of focus groups and people in Egypt, for example, think that their version of Sesame street is Egyptian.
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B
Hmm. Yeah, that's really interesting indeed. And I think it's probably worth talking a little bit more about that model given, as you said, it's not kind of what shows up in other sorts of organizations. So can you describe for us what this Sesame Workshop co production model is and explain how and why it developed?
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So the co production model that I talk about in the book is really distinct from the way most development organizations operate around the world. So most development organizations, they'll go to another country and say, okay, we have this product, we have this, whether it be an HIV campaign, whether it be a nutrition program, a vaccination program, and they'll basically say, you know, here, here we have it. It's sort of, you know, prepackaged and take it or leave it. And there's generally not a lot of back and forth about what the needs are locally. And there's generally not a lot of back and forth about how, how the folks who are working on this can collaborate as a team. It's sort of, here it is, take it or leave it. And that's about it. So what's intriguing and really compelling about the Sesame co production model is that everything is done as a transnational team. And so Sesame Workshop, the organization doesn't go to countries and say, you know, take this or leave this. It goes and says, are you interested in this? And if you're interested in this, let's put together a team made up of experts in your country and let's figure out together what your needs are and what your, what you want to accomplish in this program, what the curriculum should be. And then once there's a decision to actually co produce the team in whatever country that might might be, for example, if we're using the example of Mexico, the Mexican team is formed and they basically do all the work with some oversight and coaching and Mentoring, at least at the beginning, the first season, from the folks in New York at Sesame Workshop. So the Mexican team will have Mexican producers, Mexican writers, Mexican artists, musicians, Mexican experts who are, who are thinking about and advising on what the educational curriculum is. Because each Sesame street program has a local education program that often coincides with the national education curriculum. And so it's really a different model where they are co producing this product together that is really more than the sum of its parts. So it is Mexican in this case, but it still reads to most as a Sesame street program.
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B
Yeah, that is really distinctive and quite cool for us to obviously get into more of the details of how exactly that works. But before we get there, can you tell us more about kind of when and how this began to start? I mean, it is really unique. So like, where did this idea of ink come from and start to get embedded.
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So the origins of the Sesame co production model originated in 1969, 1970. Sesame street went on the air in the United States for the first time in 1969. And soon after that, folks around the world kind of took notice and recognized that it was a real innovation because it was a children's program that was built around an educational curriculum with certain values like nonviolence. And so they actually, the first folks who came to the workshop and asked to co produce, actually they first asked to dub the program were in Mexico and Brazil and then Germany. So those were the three first countries. And what happened was, is there was a lot of experimentation at the beginning because folks in different countries wanted it, wanted to use it in different ways. And it became apparent that they needed to have some kind of consistency. And so they decided to try different things. The dubbing didn't really work. In fact, in Mexico it became a problem because when you dub, you maintain a lot of the visuals so that children were seeing the US flag in the Mexican aired version and seeing things that were uniquely from the United States. So what they ended up doing was creating a co production model where they would have each local version of Sesame street co produced locally with a local team. And so that happened pretty quickly in the early 1970s and the program in Brazil, Villa Sesimo, became very iconic, launched the career of Sonia Braga, who was a very well known Brazilian actress. And in Germany it still is going strong and is really a German co production.
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B
Yeah, that makes sense. As soon as you say it right, that dobbing is like not going to be quite enough, but obviously then it has to be kind of worked out of like, all right, well, if that's not going to work, sort of what is the alternative instead? So if we start to investigate that process, if we take pick up from kind of where we left off a question ago, around sort of hey, we're here, do you want to maybe do something? What are the steps kind of from that moment of thinking about a co production to then actually launching one.
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So the way it has been historically done is that there's a series of back and forth meetings to decide if it, if they're going to co produce. So that's the first step. Then if they're going to move forward. There has to be a local broadcasting and media infrastructure to be able to do it on television. They have done it on radio and other kinds of online digital media, but primarily for television. You have to have a certain kind of infrastructure and interest, and usually interest from the government too, because there's a lot of government run broadcasters. And the educational curriculum is usually made to be consistent with the national educational curriculum. So there's a series of meetings that historically have happened where they meet, they put together a lot of people in the same room who are experts in that country, from educators to psychologists, doctors, nurses, artists, musicians, child psychologists. And they basically talk about the viability of the project. And then they move from that to a curricular, curricular development meeting to decide what the possible foci focuses are going to be in the program. And so it moves on from there. Once the curriculum is decided upon by the Mexican, in this case, let's say the Mexican team, the Mexican educational experts, once they come up with a curriculum, then they move into production. So that's kind of the on the ground way that the model works and
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B
in more detail then what are some of the kind of first things that have to be figured out and how does that work? I mean sort of you mentioned a whole bunch of very different types of expertise all in the room. How are decisions about kind of what, what educational aspects to emphasize are decided on? Like that doesn't that sounds like there could be lots of room for problems.
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So in the book I talk about this process of interaction that happens at the organizational level, transnational interaction. And so the, the first thing that has to happen is that they have to decide that they're going to do this. And there's a process of kind of disassembling Sesame street that goes on. So basically the folks in New York have to explain to the people, let's just use the example of Mexico. And the Mexican team has to decide is this something that we want to do. So there's this sort of exchange of knowledge about the product itself and how it's created and the values that are become a part of it. And so this is a process of aligning interests, so constructing value to align interests. So if they achieve disassembly phase, they move into the reconstitution phase, really, which is a process of creating this hybrid cultural product, Sesame street, by exchanging cultural knowledge to customize. So customization is key to this process of reconstituting Sesame Street. They've got to make something that is Mexican, but that also reads a Sesame Street. And so this really involves customizing and creating collective meetings between two teams that become one team, one transnational team that really don't share common understandings and meanings, right, in terms of issues like humor and even what childhood means. And so the customization of Sesame street is really the key to this process of co production. And then in addition to that, there has to be dissemination of the program. So that is really dependent on the partners in various countries because they are the ones with access and knowledge of all the players, the local players who are needed to disseminate successfully. So from broadcasters to government officials to local NGOs, because remember, they're also creating these community outreach projects and what those might look like. For example, in Dhaka and Bangladesh, there's a mobile dental bus. And that mobile dental bus goes around with the characters from Sisimpur, which is the Bangladesh program, on toothbrushes, passing out toothbrushes and information for parents and caregivers about how to properly, properly brush one's teeth. And so that needs to happen in the context of local NGOs and different kinds of organizations that are involved with that dissemination process. And so that really moving from dissembling to reconstituting to disseminating. And at each of those stages, different things are happening. So from constructing value to customizing, and then to building alliances with folks who can disseminate.
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That's very helpful to understand kind of what's happening in each of those stages. I'd love to talk more about the customizing part because that's of course a really tricky balance, right? Because it has to do two things, as you said, be very specifically from the particular place and read as Sesame Street. So what can and cannot be customized? Is there sort of a list of like, this cannot change, and these ones are up for grabs. How does that work?
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There's a lot of flexibility. And I argue in the book that this is really what makes this organization Sesame Workshop Working with its partner, so successful. There's never been a case where a program had to be pulled from a country where there was a huge uproar over it and where there was basically failure. And I think I argue in the book that that is because they have really spent decades coming up with this co production model that tends to work and that tends to, because of its process of mutual learning and collaboration and listening to each other really helps avoid the many pitfalls and minefields that could really derail a program and cause real issues in a particular country. And so this flexibility is extremely important. And so there's a lot. Most things can be flexible. So you know, the characters, whether or not you're using Muppets. The curriculum is very flexible. The goals are very flexible. The only aspects of it that are inflexible are some of the socio emotional messaging which is part of the curriculum. So there cannot be violence, there cannot be racism, sexism, misogyny. There's a real focus on tolerance of racial, religious, ethnic, caste tolerance. And there has to be some kind of Sesame, like look to it. And so generally they're asked to have a title for the program that references Sesame in some way. But there's a lot of variation in how that happens as well. The kind of marketing and branding with the, you know, classic green Sesame street street sign is generally done, but other than that, a lot of it is just completely flexible.
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B
This is really interesting because you give so many examples in the book of like just how flexible a lot of this really is. But also these kind of social, emotional aspects of it are really consistent. So can you maybe tell us more about kind of how that's navigated? Because I mean, some of those things that you mentioned can be very different in different countries. You know, in the US it might be one thing to be like, well, of course we're welcoming of different castes, right? But that's not true in other countries. Obviously racism and gender sexism are an issue pretty much everywhere. Like, how can you give us some examples maybe of how those sorts of things are navigated?
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A
Well, it's, it's definitely the case as you say, that, you know, there are minority groups, for example, in every country and there's issues of sexism and misogyny. And pretty much every country the way it manifests is different. So for example, in Egypt there's a minority group of Coptic Christians who have regularly been discriminated against. There's even been violence in Egypt against them. And so the local folks, the local team in Egypt decided they Wanted to have a Coptic Christian character, to sort of normalize and to promote mutual respect and understanding around this character. While not partic, while not actually saying, well, this is our Coptic Christian character. They reference that just by his name. The name will allow people in Egypt to know that he's Coptic Christian. And in terms of sexism and misogyny, how different teams go about sending those signals of mutual respect and understanding around gender tend to be similar by promoting characters, creating characters. Little girls, for example, who have the same aspirations as little boys, want to be astronauts, want to be firefighters, have access to education. And, and, and that is very, very consistent across. Across the different programs. But the way local teams see gender as being equal versus different varies. Right. So in some. In some countries, the focus is not on rights, the right to go to school. The focus may be on, you know, going girls, going to school is going. Creating a world that we want to. Where we want to have diversity, Right. Where we don't want to have these kinds of distinctions, and children are going to have to grow up in a world where there's that kind of diversity and participation. So it really varies by country.
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Yeah, no, of course. That makes a lot of sense. How then are these sorts of things navigated? Right. Because obviously you've just given us examples of where it has been successfully done. But this is still, you know, as you mentioned, right. Transnational teams that are listening to each other and learning from each other. And that's a great goal. And it sounds like lots of success has come out of it, but it's not always the smoothest possible process. So what happens if there's conflict between, say, a local team and Sesame Workshop in New York? Is that something that happens? Is that something that can be resolved?
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Yes. I have tended to see that it does not really become very contentious on these issues of racism and misogyny and basically what they call the mutual respect and understanding values, because they tend to have people, they choose partners in other countries who tend to be very similar in their thinking about the importance of mutual respect and understanding. And the folks in New York recognize that they in New York cannot decide how that needs to be done in Bangladesh or in India or in Mexico. So there tends not to be a lot of disagreement on that. When I went into the project, I really thought that the main area of disagreement would be and contention would be around the local team's autonomy, their ability to make decisions themselves. And I even expected maybe people behind the scenes would come up to me because I traveled with Sesame Workshop, the folks in New York to these different countries and observed in action the different meetings that they were having. And I expected that some of them would come to me behind the scenes and say, you know, we really are upset. We don't get enough autonomy. And, you know, that there would be more kind of resentment and dissatisfaction expressed to me privately because I don't work for Sesame Workshop. And they knew that I was a researcher at the time at Harvard. And interestingly, although there were issues of autonomy that came up, those were not the biggest issues. The biggest issues tended to come up around issues which I find rather interesting, around humor and around modeling issues of safety for children. And so those tended to be the things that there's a lot of back and forth about whether something is funny. And if we think about humor, humor is very, very culturally specific. Right. You know, even in, you know, English speaking countries, right. The difference between, you know, some folks may not like slapstick comedy that's been popular in the United States, and some people might not like as much sort of sarcastic humor or sort of, you know, Monty Python type humor. And so you can imagine that between different countries where languages are different and cultures are very different, what is considered funny is very different. And it's hard to translate that even in a room with the folks from New York and the folks from other countries, you know, it's even hard to explain all the references that make humor very distinctive. And so a lot of the times what has to happen is, you know, the folks in the country. Well, what would happen is the folks in the country would say, you know, here's our script. And the folks in New York said, well, that's not funny. And then the folks in whatever country would say, it's hilarious to us. And ultimately what generally happened was that the folks in New York would say, okay, well, you know best, you're the experts, obviously, in your country and in the humor that makes sense there. So we'll go with what you think. And so that again, is a real example of the flexibility and the process of mutual respect even among the transnational team that happens as they do something, which is really, really hard to do when you think about it. And I think part of the reason that this model emerged is because you can't just go to another. The folks in New York can't just go to, you know, Indonesia and create their own version of Sesame street in Indonesia. It would be impossible. And so really what makes sense is this model of co production and creating that kind of respect with your counterparts in other countries that's what this really, really hinges on. I realized that, you know, this is really a process of relationship building. And if you create a relationship that is built on mutual respect and understanding and trust, then ultimately, you know, you have not only a better outcome, a better product, a better local version of Sesame street, but you also have a better relationship, a more equitable, hopefully, relationship created. And that's really, as someone who studies development and organizations, what I was really, really interested in.
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B
Yeah, that is really, really interesting, especially for these sorts of things that are like really hard to kind of articulate and describe.
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A
Right.
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And being able to get to a point of just being able to trust and going, you know what? I don't fully get why that's funny, but that's okay.
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Right?
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Like that's a hard thing to get to. But it sounds like obviously lots of teams get to that point in terms of scripts and production. So can we move now to talking more about what you were saying in terms of how these programs are made successful kind of once they are launched, what sort of work goes into that phase?
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So the dissemination phase, you mean?
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Yeah, and the kind of the dissemination sort of immediately and sort of building out with these kind of community projects.
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Right.
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You mentioned like with the dental buses.
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Right, right. So the process of dissemination, although, you know, a lot of it happens at the end, most of it happens at the end once the program is created or the outreach project is created. A lot of it also has to happen at the beginning of the process. So in these initial meetings where they're trying to figure out who their counterparts are going to be, who partners are going to be, obviously they have to have broadcasters. And so at the beginning they have to find these partners and build these relationships and create sort of these alliances that happen. And so it's important to find the right people in the various countries who can work with you on that. In the case of a lot of low income countries, for example, in Bangladesh it was a government run broadcaster. And so if you didn't build a strong relationship with that broadcaster, at least one or two people in that government agency, then you know, you weren't going to be on air. You know, so all that work would be for. Not because, you know, there would be no possibility of getting it out into the, into the population to view it. So a lot of that alliance building happens at the beginning and is sustained across during the time that everything is being customized and created. And then at the end you have a process where the partners that you've had and that you've Built a relationship with, for example, with the outreach projects. They are now fully engaged and working on getting those, you know, for example, backpacks filled with workbooks and puzzles and games out to kindergarten teachers in Jordan. So, for example, with outreach projects, in the case of Jordan, they created these outreach kits that included materials for teachers and parents and caregivers, you know, puzzles that were branded with the characters from the Jordanian program. And, and so there's this real engagement with local governments, educational institutions, schools, teachers, so that the outreach materials resonate, are local and are useful and are not just kept, you know, on a shelf. As, as one of my, one of the folks I interviewed told me that it's really important that, you know, the, these outreach materials also be localized so that when people are engaging them locally, they make sense and they reflect the culture and the different aspects of the culture that are being highlighted in the curriculum.
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B
Yeah, I mean, that makes a ton of sense. Right. Obviously everything needs to be integrated, otherwise it's not going to have the same sort of message that the goal really is. But as you mentioned, that does take lots of coordination, not just at the end of the process, but all the way throughout. What does that look like now in our sort of, in many ways more interconnected worlds, in many ways less connected. What's happening at the moment with Sesame Workshop in terms of these co productions around the world?
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So these co productions and they are, you know, they vary in terms of the amount of local content that is in them. Sometimes, you know, Grover or Elmo appears as a character in the Indian version, for example. But these are very, very expensive to create and they are really, really susceptible to lapses in production when there isn't funding. So in low income countries, historically, most of these have been given seed money by what was the U.S. agency for International Development or USAID. The current administration basically decided to eliminate that agency. But the seed money that came from there was not meant to be permanent. It was meant to be most about five years. And then the goal was to have local funding. So looking for a philanthropic organization, the government or a private firm that would sponsor production in various countries. So given how expensive it is and how much time it takes. Right, because the reason this model of engaging in these transnational partnerships, the reason it works is because they take the time, they take the time that is needed and the time and country to get to know their partners. Well, this is really hard to do. And a lot of organizations can't or won't do that. And so over the years the model has changed as it becomes more and more difficult as funding dries up. So currently there exists. So a lot of these programs are still being aired or broadcast in various countries, but there are fewer new ones being created unless there is a lot of funding. So Sesame Workshop with the International Rescue committee, won the first MacArthur 100 and Change competition for $100 million to create projects that would really make big changes in the world. And so that money was used to create a version of Sesame street across the Middle east and really to focus on issues related to children who were living in very vulnerable situations as refugees, for example, or in areas where there had been war or other kind of violence. And so in that case there was enough funding to do a really what they call like a Cadillac version where it's, you know, a lot of local muppets and characters and things like that. They've moved a little bit toward trying to have an even broader global impact by creating sort of what they consider to be evergreen content that is more neutral but more global. And what they mean by that is, you know, it's not specific to one country, but it's more responding to broader needs around the world, but not from a US centric perspective. And so they have continued with the aspects of co production that make this possible by having advisors from around the world help them develop this content. It is cheaper to have, less expensive to have this kind of evergreen content and to use it in different contexts. Right. So the refugee, the refugee materials and the refugee focused content is not only used in the Middle east, it's also been used among the Rohingya population and different places. So, so the impact is actually, it's possible for that impact to be even higher when you can very quickly turn on a dime and create content that is relevant and that can be relevant in a variety of different countries. So that is kind of an experiment that's been happening in the last few years to try to minimize the financial constraints that, you know, are sort of built into having such a extensive, you know, years long process of co production.
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B
Yeah, that's a really interesting kind of development of all of this that I'm sure will kind of continue to grow. If we think back then to kind of everything you've been saying, all the examples you've given us, the processes, what are some of the things that maybe other organizations could learn from what Sesame Workshop is doing.
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A
That really is what I wanted to come out of this book because a lot of folks who work in the development field know that a lot of the focus of research is on Failure is on development. Failure is on the failure of development programs and projects is on the failure of different kinds of relationships between transnational teams, partners in the U.S. partners, particularly in low income countries. And so the truth of the matter is that had I gone into this and found that actually the co production model didn't work, or people were not happy or satisfied with it, or there was a lot of failure with it, I probably wouldn't have continued with the project because what I was looking for was a case where there was success, a modicum of success, and to really figure out what was driving that success. And so when I watched that documentary about Sesame Workshop and saw that, well, it seemed to be successful, let me go and actually figure out if it is. It turned out that the success is really driven by the care and by the time that is given to develop these relationships, it really is a model of relationship building. And it really wouldn't be successful if that relationship building didn't happen and wasn't prioritized. And so what I wanted to come out of the book really was an example of how to do it better. And you know, I say over and over again in the book that, you know, Sesame Workshop is not perfect. The organization is not perfect, nor is everybody who works in Sesame Workshop in New York, nor is every partner and every organization that's engaged in this process locally perfect. There are problems, there are disagreements, there is conflict. But what I argue in the book is that they develop a strong enough relationship with their partners that they're able to manage that conflict and overcome that conflict. And so, you know, the, the kind of analogy I give in the book, it's like a marriage, right? There's no perfect marriage. There's no marriage without conflict. But the strength of a marriage is really measured by how well you actually manage that conflict. And so what I have found with the case of Sesame Workshop and its partners coming from both sides is both sides really work on and prioritize mutual respect and understanding, which is one of the values that is foregrounded in the programs themselves and this mutual learning. So you go into it as the New York team, knowing that you are not the experts. Your partners are the experts. Their knowledge is what's important, their expert knowledge. And you listen to them and you prioritize them, telling you what they need and how they want to focus this and what their goals are. And so that is really what makes this process successful. So for other organizations, you have to have an organization that's really motivated to do it this way. And this Doing it this way takes time and takes money and takes effort. And maybe if you're just creating something like a Sesame street toy, for example, and I do talk about this in some of my other research, the Sesame street toys that are imported to other countries, this whole process, you know, isn't required because it really is just, you know, putting new packaging on the Elmo toy as it goes into Israel, for example. But when you're creating something that is requires so much complex cultural knowledge as Sesame street the program, then you really need to engage in a process that is a process where you're creating more equitable relationships with your partners. So I think it really depends for other organizations what they're trying to create with their potential partners and how complicated and how, you know, what kind of. I talk about friction, what kind of friction that creates sort of normative and relational friction. Something like Sesame street, which could be very contentious because it's based on educating our children, which people care very much about. It really matters how that's done. And so for the case of the programs, it has to be done with a lot of care, a lot of time, and a lot of commitment to not only building the relationship, but developing it and nurturing it over the long haul.
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B
Yeah, those are some very good takeaways there that can definitely be applied well beyond just Sesame Workshop. So can I ask, while listeners perhaps are applying some of those takeaways in their own contexts, what might you be working on now that this book is done? Anything you want to give us a sneak preview of?
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A
Well, interestingly, as I was finishing up the field work for this project, and I worked for seven years in the field, in and out of the field, interviewing and traveling around the world with Sesame street and its partners. As I was finishing, I was then at the University of New Mexico, and I was reading New York Times about this organization called Project Echo, which was based at the University of New Mexico Medical School. And it was doing something similar to Sesame Workshop, which was it had a healthcare model that it was developing to be able to move and diffuse and spread around the world. And so I saw that as a really interesting project looking at how you take something that's educational and you localize it versus taking something that was related to a health healthcare product and localize it. And so I kind of, when I realized that they were down the street from me, I went over there and and gave a talk about the Sesame Street Project. And the founder and director of Project ECHO, Dr. Sanjeev Arora at the time, who recently, recently retired, invited me to come and work with them and look at how they were localizing the Project Echo model. And I said, well, I'd be happy to do that. Could I also study the organization? And so I spent a couple of years doing a very similar ethnography, participant observation interviews, at Project Echo and with its partners around the world. And so that book is now under contract with Stanford University Press. I brought in one of my colleagues to work on it with me, Jason Spicer, who is an expert on different kinds of third sector organizations. And we're looking at what a unique model Project Echo is because it is an organization that's really structured as a social movement, and so it's able to do things that other organizations can't do. And one of the main examples is during COVID Project Echo was able to really redo its clinics to address the COVID 19 pandemic in a way that most organizations could not. And so kind of thinking of that puzzle of how you create an organization that can scale very quickly and effectively is a really interesting question, both for practitioners and for scholars and researchers. So the Project Echo will be the next book and should be the next book coming in the next year or two.
- [42:22]
B
Well, that certainly sounds very intriguing. So I will be looking forward to that book. And of course, while you and your co author are finishing it all up, listeners can read the book we've been discussing titled Sesame street, around the World, Culture, Politics and Transnational Organizational Partnerships, published by Oxford University Press in 2025. Tamara, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.
- [42:45]
A
Thank you for having me. It was a lot of fun and it was an honor to be on the program.