Loading summary
Transcript39 lines
- [00:01]
A
Welcome to the new books network.
- [00:13]
B
Welcome to the Gastronomic Art podcast on the New Books Network. I'm your host Ishita De, a member of the Gastronomica Editorial Collective. Today I'm joined by Leukash Senif, Tereza Stockilova, Varvara Borisova to discuss their piece titled the Microbiopolitics of Novel the Pro and Antibiotic Implications of Cultivated Meat and Aquaponic Farming. This article is available in the Spring 2026 issue of Gastronomica as part of a special section on microbes, food and food systems. This article explores the role of the microbes in cultivated meat and aquaponics farming in what are the potential scenari of human microbial coexistence? Especially what are the impacts of this novel foods of the environmental and gut microbiomes? What is particularly interesting is how the article talks about potential reduction in microbial diversity in aquaponic farming and diversity and functionality of the gut microbiome that could be reduced and that may be reduced in environmental microbial regeneration which could be amplified in case of the cultivated meat. It's particularly interesting I'm doing this conversation because the last reading I ended my course on food and food ways that I teach in university in India was on cultivated meat. And so please share with our listeners about your individual research, introduce yourself and how did three of you arrive at this collaborative journey?
- [01:57]
A
Okay, so I guess I can start. First of all, thank you for having us. It's great to be a guest on this podcast and I am Lukas, as you have already mentioned and my PhD thesis was focused on mushroom foraging in Czechia and gradually I become increasingly interested in small scale farming in Czechia. And when I joined Teresa's team on the project Beyond Security, it was opportunity for me to explore the implementation of precision agriculture technologies in greater depth. And this precision agriculture, which is agricultural management approach that employs innovative technologies to increase the efficiency of agricultural production. This is quite interesting. And hydroponics and aquaponics, although these processes has a long tradition, in recent years they have increasingly incorporated new technologies and digitalization. So this was the starting point for me.
- [03:11]
C
Yeah, thank you. Thank you also for having us and making this podcast and opportunity for us to kind of talk about our research. So my research over the past three or four years has been basically sitting at the intersection of metabolism, nutrition, food system embodiment and novel food technologies or novel food production methods became a very like logical and natural entry point into that. So within this big project which Lukas mentioned, which is realized at the Institute of Sociology of the Czech Academy of Sciences. My focus has been specifically on the alternative protein industry or alternative protein production, which also has become this really dominant force in the agri food sector in this like, broader sense. And it attracts enormous amount of. On investment, adventure capital and a lot of political and cultural attention as well. So. But I think as sociologists and anthropologists, we come to this topic, or we approach this topic from a. I would say from a tradition of critical nutrition studies, which means we don't just take the industry narrative at face value, and that narrative, which we will talk later about this narrative of urgency, of techno optimization, of techno optimism, that we need new sources of protein, new food production methods, and we need them now. And we need to focus on technology as the main force or the main solution for these issues. So we take a critical. We embrace a critical perspective on that and we ask like, why protein? Why technology? For whom? Whose needs? And so on and so on. So because once you ask this, I think you start to notice that, for example, this protein has been constructed despite its value for human nutrition. There is also this social, technical construction of it as a hero ingredients and hero nutrient, which is like. Which needs to be somehow produced in these technological ways. So yeah, so I think the paper really grew out of the tension between the promise that these technologies are making, for example, as you mentioned, cultivated meat, and what they might actually mean not only for our bodies and for microbial communities, but also on these relationships between bodies, between ecologists and in broader term, in this metabolic relations and metabolic politics.
- [06:06]
D
Very shortly from myself. Thanks for having us. Of course. I'm a senior researcher at the Institute of Sociology of the Czech Academy of Sciences and associate professor at Charles University, where I teach at a social anthropology department. This is also where I firstly met my colleagues, both Lukas and Varvara, who used to be my students. Now they are my dear colleagues. And as they. I already mentioned, we have been doing research on the. I would call it like in the area of extended metabolism that cuts across bodies, ecologies and techno scientific infrastructures and cannot be simply reduced to what is happening inside of our bodies and. But it's constitutively something biosocial and sociotechnical. So this is roughly where we arrived
- [07:21]
B
to the topic.
- [07:22]
D
Also of the article we would talk with you today.
- [07:27]
B
Thank you so much for that introduction, because the opening lines really, really resonated of your art collaborative piece, really resonated with me of how you begin about the green revolution and its productive limits. It resonated because there's a lot of Moda production, debate, et cetera, that is there from the geography that I come from in India. But I think what primarily is there about Green revolution is how it transforms the land, labor relations. And here repeatedly, this is how I read the article. Correct me if I'm wrong. What kind of. And this question stayed with me. What kind of labor relations do you think probiotic measures and interventions are going to transform?
- [08:17]
A
We consider probiotic management as something which refers to processes in which humans are not fully in control. I think it's important to. To define this thing at first. And probiotic management is when you use one life form to manage other life form. And of course, there is a tremendous book, for example, the Probiotic Planet by Jamie Lorimer. I highly recommend it. This, this piece of work. And a good example of revilding. A good example of probiotic management is revilding, for example, when the restoration of a landscape is guided by humans, but the main ecological effects are carried out, for example, by cattle living within the landscape. And I think it's also crucial to mention that probiotic practices can be very easily. They can be very easily romanticized, that humans appear to give up their throne and the nature is coming back again. But in the article, we tried to demonstrate that although some production practices cooperate with some life forms, they simultaneously require the elimination of others of other life forms. And for example, in aquaponics, vegetables are produced without soil because fish provide fertilizers which are transformed by bacteria into nutrients for plants. But at the same time, certain microbes are considered undesirable and must be eliminated from the aquaponics system. So these vertical farming systems moved agricultural production into indoor environment and life. Death care is reconfigured. And I think it's important to pay analytical attention how the life and death is managed within these novel indoor production facilities. And it's really difficult to generalize it. That's why we need ethnography.
- [10:31]
B
I think if you could share a little bit, because you ended on that ethnographic. If you could share a little bit about the ethnographic journey in itself, about how the research was conducted. Right. And also for a larger audience, the productive limits of land in Czechia. Because I think this is where you begin your introduction with.
- [10:54]
A
And yes, Barbara, would you like to start answering this question or should I continue? I don't want to be the one who's talking all the time.
- [11:05]
C
Okay, I'll just quickly intervene on the methodology question. So our research is heavily grounded in ethnography, meaning that we really try if. If if it's manageable to, to go to the places and talk to the people. So for example, within my, this, my focus on alternative protein production we've been to for example cricket farms because you know, edible insects are also part of this, of this industry. So Lukash and I, we went to the, we took a train to see this mealworm farm. We went to, to see this farm which was basically at home of one of our respondents. Also I visited headquarters of the startups who are developing cultivated meat to. So we really tried to you know, not only talk to people in terms how they approach stuff, how they do things, but also see the materiality of where they do it, how they are situated, what are the human, non human socio technical arrangements of these places. And I think it's of course gives us an opportunity to have this more nuanced and complex way of investigating these questions. So this is where this like research methodology comes from. But apart from that of course we try not to focus only these specific fields, I would say sides of fields, but also to approach it from a broader perspective, for example by following and by visiting different events and public debates about nutrition in general, about sustainability, about agri food production. So it's I, I would say that it's a multi sided ethnography research where we do intervene in various parts of, of this broader field also we do engage or we do mobilize these participative methods or I would say that for example we did a public tasting of edible insect where it was really about like not scientists telling something, about telling about something to the public but about public and scientists coming together, engaging with this materiality of this food, sharing their thoughts, sharing their concerns, sharing their sensual feelings and all that's tasty or that's disgusting, so on, so on. So and we also, in terms of for example cultivated meat which is not yet on sale in the Czech Republic, we decided also to intervene because this is a great moment to intervene from a social scientific perspective. And we organized a public hearing where we once again invited scientists and public to collaboratively talk about it. And like do we have this kind of deliberation technique where we once again share our thoughts, concerns, opportunities. So this is I think is very important for any research. And also apart from being a really interesting, I would say data generation techniques, having these interventions, public interventions, it is also it gives you, I was, I would say this meta position and this bigger perspective on the research you're doing
- [14:57]
B
now and what is the history of. You said cultivated meat is still not on sale so what is the history of aquaponics farming and cultivated meat within Czechia? If you could just give a broad overview of the timeline. I'm just trying to understand the landlord system productive limits of green revolution. And when did all this begin?
- [15:20]
A
Well, I would say that the hydroponics and aquaponics are pretty new trends within Czech agriculture. The ownership structure of agricultural land in Czechia has been strongly shaped by collectivization in 1950s and also so called wild capitalism in 90s. So a large proportion of agricultural land is owned by a few agro business companies and it's pretty difficult to become a newbie within the agriculture. So I think it's quite, it's not surprising that new experiments with food productions are done indoors and in this vertical structure because you need to spare land. And so I think within the Czech Republic or the space of Czech Republic, aquaponics and hydroponics are pretty new in these settings, like the form of precision agriculture. And they try to do things differently in comparison with conventional agriculture. They try to do it more ecologically, environmentally friendly and so on.
- [16:41]
B
And are there also new laws coming out around this? Because you do talk about in the piece that as far as the laws on cultivated meat is concerned, it still doesn't exist. And do you see a raising concern around it? I mean, because given that this is a society which has gone through collectivized agriculture and when agriculture is moving indoors. Right. What sort of food agri food laws do you think might get impacted, particularly with the way in which this industry is shaping up? Just this is a speculative question.
- [17:20]
C
Yeah, yeah, thanks, that's a good question. I will first start with kind of contextualizing the place of cultivated meat in the Czech, in the Czech Republic. So basically, as I said, cultivated meat is not approved for sale in Czechia or anywhere in the European Union for that matter. At the moment and globally, only a handful of countries have given it the green light and approved its sale for human consumption. And Singapore being, I guess probably the main illustration of how this market can probably look like so, but the absence of approval doesn't mean that nothing is happening because something is happening. So in Czechia specifically, it is remarkable that there are two startups actively developing cultivated meat technologies right now. And the interesting part is that the Czech Ministry of Agriculture is actively supporting them because they develop a regulatory framework for so called sensory testing of these cultivated meat products. And this is something what Estonia and the Netherlands have been doing for some time now. So they have also established this special commission on cellular agriculture and they have these protocols for public sensory testings of these products. And this is something what the Czech government, specifically the Czech Ministry of Agriculture is trying to organize or trying to facilitate right now. So even though you cannot buy cultivated meat products in Czechia right now, the infrastructure is kind of being built now and it seems that it's a matter of when rather than the matter of if ever. And as for the law infrastructure, like legal infrastructure, of course the main, one of the main concerns which has. Which is being discussed right now is how to. How to design a protocol for organizing this. This type of sensory testings that would guarantee safety of the testers on the one side, but also that will accommodate the company's not non willingness but the fact that companies don't want to give away their like secret technologies or not secret technologies, but like the, the. The production know how. So there is this tension that needs to be balance. This is something that the Czech Ministry of Agriculture in cooperation with different different experts and also in cooperation with these companies are now trying to do.
- [20:34]
B
Thank you. Thank you for that because you write beautifully in the piece and you. You arrive at that in a very interesting juncture in the article about that we are moving towards a biosecure world. I really like that framing because it also allows the concept of containment to move towards a different direction. And here let me ask a very specific question related to your article. Emerging from your article that both cultivated meat and aquaponic farming seem to have created its. Or has a potential to create its own discourse of sustainability. But at the same time, like you rightly point out, it also face a challenge as with food, to replicate a taste where and here interestingly the terror is kind of absent. So given that, you know, previously we have microbial. We have works which looks at microbial entanglement where it is critically engaging with steroid. If you have Heather Paxton's work, you know, where there's a strong emphasis, right? I mean of that. You know, of that microbial entanglement. How do you you know. Can you elaborate for our readers? You know the how the concept of containment particularly helps you to navigate how I read emerging microbial relationship in rather sterile environments.
- [22:06]
A
Yeah, thank you for this question. I would like to mention that in this respect we built on work of Masha Guggenik, Ignis Shue, Charles Mather, Guy Hawkins or Jillian Paxton. And in this debate, STS debate. The containment serves as a conceptual tool for understanding socio technical systems of ecological management ranging from predator fences to the material infrastructures used for example in salmon aquaculture and as Hawkins and Paxson note in their article, organisms managed within forms of containment are those whose, and now I quote, qualities are singled out and rendered calculable through the design, unquote. And in our article we conceptualize novel indoor food production facilities as forms of containment. And we understood containment as the outcome of biopolitical management that determines which organisms are allowed to exist within the system and which are excluded. And as we define it in the article, these schemes act as operational scripts, so to say, defining which microbes should be incorporated or excluded. And as a result, the novel food facilities are establishing their own standards for evaluating microbial utility, delineating good and bad microbes in the pursuit of a sustainable future. So this was our conceptual tool, how to. How to think with the fieldwork.
- [24:01]
B
If I could push you a little further by that. As we move towards a biosecure world with so much of, you know, where it seems like the food production is also going to manage what is good and bad, like you just pointed out, would it create or would it perpetuate a new forms of inequalities between the Global north and Global South? And this is mostly to with because our histories and our relationship with Green Revolution and agri food systems are very different. So how is it going to organize? Let me put it this way, food dependency between Global north and Global south, or within Global north as well? I think.
- [24:49]
A
Well, I think the food produced through aquaponics and hydroponics is often more expensive, of course, than crops produced through conventional agriculture. And this is one of the central conundrums of contemporary food production, because the Green revolution made food accessible to a large number of people. But the price for this was landscape degraded by intensive agriculture and pesticide use. And to date, organic and ecologically produced food is typically more expensive because its price reflect a more environmentally sensitive approach to the land and the crop and so on. And so poor quality food remains cheaper. And this inequality cuts across many divisions and not only between Global north and south, but also within Europe and within Czechia itself. So we will see, but with cultivated meat, maybe the future will be somehow different. Varvara, what do you think?
- [25:52]
C
I think generally in terms of alternative protein production, there is this idea that we need this excessive amounts of protein. But as some observational nutritional clinical studies show, for example, Europe, European countries do not have problem with protein deficiency compared to countries in Global South. So this might be a way how to approach alternative protein technologies and ask where they can meaningfully intervene and be developed. For example, I don't know we can take, and it's like a total fabulation from my side, but for example, we can take cultivated meat technology and disseminate or put it in places where for example conventional animal agriculture is not possible in any forms due to, due to the conditions, ecological conditions there. So we can supply for example some part of, of protein production by you know, establishing this, this technology there. But at the same time I think that not the problem, but like the interesting part about alternative protein productions, whether it's cultivated meat technology or whether it's edible insects there, they aim at European markets because it's about like making protein. And both of proteins made via these technologies is going to be more expensive. So they are primarily targeted at European or Euro American markets, I would say. And at the same time producing this type of proteins or like this kind of alternative proteins can mirror the dependencies and extractivist tendencies between Global south and Global north that we already observe today. For example, when it comes to edible insect industry. And you think about, okay, so for example, insect farming is, is culturally and like historically more developed in countries of Southeast Asia. So some could think of, okay, so let's farm the crickets and mealworms there and then bring this protein to Europe because it's easier to farm them there due to climate conditions, due to knowledge, due to historical tradition and know how it's present there. But also it's about extracting this nutrient and these technologies out of there and putting them to European market. And the same it could be with the cultivated meat technologies where for them to run smoothly and to produce protein you need a very stable energy grid and you need probably you will need much more amount of energy. Which also is going to be a question where this energy is going to be produced and extracted from. So I think this is another argument for our thinking or our argument that the technology itself isn't a solution, but rather a tool. And you can take a technology that seems or is presented as entirely eco friendly, entirely sustainable, and you can use it in a way where it's not sustainable at all.
- [29:57]
B
And if you could tell us, and rightly put so because in many cultures it's also happening. Edible insects were part of indigenous communities and when private capital kind of comes in, uses it as an alternative source of protein, you know, there is a new kind of meaning making that happens. So let me ask a sort of a speculative question around because you brought in the dimension of culture. Where does you know, where does in, in your field work? What you have seen about aquaponics farming and cultivated Mean, how do these industries use the ideas of culture? Do they at all talk about culture? Do they at all, you know, try to make a claim for it, you know, whatever field work. Field work you have done so far?
- [30:47]
C
Yeah, I think that of course food is much more than a bunch of nutrients that sustains life. It also is a cultural phenomenon or like, you know, also political tool and so on and so on. So I think the notion of culture in terms of cuisine or in terms of also food being a part of national identity emerges for example, when we talk about edible insects a lot because it's about we don't eat insects in Europe. It's something like coming from this exotic places, exotic from our point of view. It's like from Southeast Asia, global South. So it seems like natural to eat insects despite is global tradition. And this is where this, I would say like talks about what is cultural food or like food as culture emerges a lot. Also when we speak about, when we talk about cultivated meat, it's like, oh, Czech cuisine is very meat heavy. So we want to preserve it because it's not part of our cuisine and our culture, but also part of our national identity. So we would like to preserve heaven meat heavy meats there. So when you. And I think this is also, it also intersects, intersects with, with our earlier research on, on vegan diets and vegetarian diets in Czechia where it's like, no, it's something unnatural and something that we don't do here. So yeah, so of course this notion of culture is mobilized often in political or public debates about fub. But also, sometimes it also important to see who mobilizes these notions and these concepts because it is where it gets interesting often after all.
- [33:00]
A
Yeah, because in the case of edible insect, it was mobilized by far right politicians to show that European Union is trying to destroy our national identity connected to traditional food by enforcing us to eat some exotic insect. So it has become part of this right wing political campaign against European Union. So worms are mobilized politically.
- [33:34]
C
Yeah, I mean, I see that.
- [33:37]
D
What I see as part of kind of social science agenda is also to critically examine this construct of what is normal culturally. Right. Because nobody is, nobody is mobilizing against, for example, eating papaya, even though papaya does not grow in central Europe, not yet at least. While in case of other foods or edible products, demobilization in terms of, you know, these breaches trans graces, our cultural tradition is much stronger. So of course there is revenue visible, the political agenda behind this.
- [34:34]
B
And so just putting a speculative question, who do you think, which of the political actors do you think might side with your idea of the hybrid cultivated meat? You know, would it be people who are much more voicing for a climate friendly future or would the far right agree, go ahead with hybrid cultivated meat?
- [35:03]
C
That's an interesting question because I think it's hard to decide in this dimension on like left and right, because I think it's going to be people from all over the political spectrum who would say, for example, leftist politicians can support cultivated my technology saying that it can alleviate some part of environmental burden and also, you know, lower animal suffering. But also I can imagine right wing politicians who can be tied for example to agri food sector enforcing for example this technology in there. But not only because of that, but also because of like yeah, we want to keep meat a part of our diet, so let's do that if it takes it. So I would say that once again this is a technology and it heavily depends on how you frame it because you can really, for example, in the extent of our research we can see this not very big but slight shifts in how these technologies and products made by these technologies are framed and presented to the public, to the consumers and so on. So it really, it is hard to tell that for example, oh yeah, left wing environmental party would endorse edible insects while right wing party will not endorse insects. I think it's like it can be endorsed from both sides or neither of them. So in this sense I think it is very interesting for example to follow and to investigate and examine how for example the companies developing these technologies and these products are communicating about them. This is also a very interesting side of this social scientific critique and social scientific analysis.
- [37:14]
B
So we clearly kind of see a repositioning of protein in the human diet. And in this repositioning of protein or the in the human diet, do you think it will leave a huge impact on microbial relationship between humans and non humans?
- [37:34]
C
Yeah, so I think what's interesting is that protein hasn't really like been repositioned, but it's like being severely and relentlessly centered. Because like all we now hear about, for example, my social media algorithms just like push me into hitting my protein goals and like I've never been pushed to do anything so hard, how I've been pushed now into consuming enough protein. But apart from that, it is worth acknowledging that this, this idea of protein consumption, it comes from several different directions at once. There is this fitness and like sports muscle building narrative which has, do, has, do have this biomedical achievement grounding that Protein intake does matter for maintaining muscle mass and that maintaining muscle mass is increasingly important as we age. So this is one, I would say part of the conversation. But also there is more recent wave coming from weight loss medication regimes where clinical guidance on GLP1 drugs like, you know, Mounjaro, Zip Bound, WeGovy and so on, they explicitly tells this guideline, they explicitly tell patients to center their diet around protein to avoid losing lean tissue alongside fat. So the rule for, for a diet when a person is on a GLP1 medication is protein first, just protein comes first. And it also has this explanation behind this. So protein is important. But what happens is that this legitimate concerns, they get absorbed into a much broader cultural and commercial narrative where protein becomes the answer to everything that like, oh, you need to build muscle, eat protein, you need to get slim, eat protein, you need to be healthy, eat protein. And I think this is the part where we as social scientists should like very critically investigate these claims and these frameworks because health is so much broader and so much more complex than muscle percentage or body composition. And a protein first approach to food, especially when it comes at the expense of fiber or bioactive compounds or micronutrients or polyphenols, all the things that actually feed your gut, microbiome, feed your body and support your health, gives you a very narrow and ultimately impoverishing picture of what nourishment means. So nourishment is not only about calories, about protein intake, but much more about diversity, about some kind of like building resilience and so on. So the problem with this approach, this complex approach, is that it doesn't sell well because, you know, high in protein is like a label we can basically see on every type of product. Now 2 days ago I was at the, at the store and I was like, bread, which is high in protein. And I was really like, okay. And I was like very, very close to, to saying, you know, it's like, it's probably just normal bread, but, but still you, you, you, you, you, you are intrigued by these claims of being high in protein. So even like they, they trying to invent or already they already invented hookahs with protein. So the mist itself is kind of like filled with the protein. So all type of protein rich products and it kind of, it will probably make you much more money than just normal bread. High in protein. Bread is gonna sell faster and for more money. So I think that to maintain that commercial power, you need to continuously reproduce the authority of protein as the prime nutrient. And that said, I think What I see from social media that fiber is entering this era as well, where people also talk about fiber rich products and fiber rich diets. But anyway, protein is still very much the rhyming authority of nutrition marketing. And as long as that imagination dominates, it will continue to shape how, how and what novel foods get developed and what gets left out of the picture. For example, this trend on functional foods where you do not approach food as a, I would say like source of joy or like social gathering, you approach food as a metabolic tinkering in a way, or like a tool for maximizing, optimizing your body health or like your health and your body. So and in this terms, functional foods are now, I would say built around a high in something intake.
- [43:09]
B
So my second last question that you say that you know, in aquaponic farming particularly there is potential reduction in microbial diversity, right? Can you just elaborate a little bit around that?
- [43:23]
A
Well, I think that important thing is that the discourse surrounding vertical farming, so aquaponics, hydroponics very often suggest that moving food production indoors indoor can help save outdoor landscapes. And these landscapes are frequently framed as dysbiotic and degraded by conventional agriculture. And in this sense, vertical farming seeks to protect the planet's soil microbiome by transferring certain ecological dynamics indoor. And I believe that this replication, or you know, imitation replication is a better word, I guess, of ecological processes within indoor environment can be a productive and promising approach. But I would hesitate to overestimate the ambitions of vertical farming. I don't think that we need a new hegemonic system of food production to replace the old one. Also in the sense that the aquaponics and hydroponics can deliver food all times every a year. And I don't think that we need this permanent global summertime, as we quote one of the geographers in our article. And we need rather a diversity of food production systems and practices. We got food systems that rely on, on only a few dominant producers tend to be fragile and vulnerable. And for example, George Monbiot, ecologist and writer, discussed this in terms of modularity. The idea that food systems should be divided into rather separate compartments. And such modularity could help prevent rapid shocks and global collapses of the food systems. So I think that aquaponics and hydroponics can be really interesting complementary food production to many others food producing facilities and experiments and so on to avoid to have this huge hegemonic, hegemonic net of food producing big factories.
- [45:58]
B
Okay, coming to the last question. Do you have any favorite food item or snack you like to have when you're writing and if you could tell a little bit about your collaborative writing process.
- [46:15]
C
Yes.
- [46:15]
B
Lucas Farvera Tereza, Please take a break.
- [46:20]
C
I think my favorite food item in terms of writing is, is nothing close to what you could term a healthy food. You know, so high in sugar, high in fat. So yeah, I'm probably not the best example of, of writing process tips, but I would say that like lots of coffee. Lots of coffee. And when my body starts to resent coffee, I switched to, to sugar, sugary beverages, unfortunately. But also I would say that what I realized that for what you realize when you research metabolism and nutrition related topics, you do start to think more thoroughly and more introspectively about your life and your eating habits. But also it is very, I would say complicated not to fall into being very strict to yourself. So sometimes when I'm writing and I realize that my energy kind of juices out, I'm like, okay, I, I, I need this, I need this Coke. I need this Coca Cola ish beverage because it will keep me going. And I think as for collaborative writing, I do really enjoy writing with other people, I would say more than writing alone because first of all, it gives you this unique perspective on how you approach the topic, how you structure the text and it's a fun and creative way to learn from your peers. And also I think for me it works because I do enjoy writing and then I do enjoy writing where I'm just kind of like putting it all on the paper and then send it further so people can say, oh, that's not good or okay, that's good. So I do enjoy collaborative writing process when it's accompanied by some sugary beverages.
- [48:36]
A
Yeah, I guess we are running out of time, so I be quick. I can totally relate to what was said by Barbara. I really enjoyed this collaborative writing and collaborative writing in general. And I know that I should say that I eat something very healthy, fermented, homemade, whatever, but I just drink coffee to deliver my writing. That's, that's my, that's my booster.
- [49:01]
D
Yes, it's same for me. It's simply coffee. Good black coffee, strong one. Yeah, that's the booster. And maybe a note on our collaboration more broadly. So our team, we meet on regular weekly basis. So there is really an ongoing conversation between us, including Lukash and Varvara and two more colleagues who pursue a bit different topics. And so co authoring a paper is kind of natural offspring of this ongoing conversation that we do have, which often does not need to be very instrumental in terms of VR working on this paper. So so we have to discuss this, but we discuss more freely and also talking quite a lot about really the ethnographic data and sharing in this way.
- [50:14]
B
Thank you so much. Thank you so much for each one of you. To Lukash Teresa Varvara for joining us on the Gastronomica podcast. Thank you to everyone who facilitated this. Listeners can find their article the Microbiopolitics of Novel Foods, the Pro and Antibiotic Implications of Cultivated Meat and Aquaponic farming in issue 26.1 of Gastronomica, available at online UC Press Gastronomica website. Stay tuned for future episodes of the Gastronomica Podcast on the New Goods Network. Thank you so much.