Episode Overview
Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Eli Karetney
Guest: Alex Priou (University of Boston, political philosopher, Plato scholar)
Title: The Technological Soul: Alex Priou on Modernity, Ideology, and the Limits of Reason
Date: November 6, 2025
This episode explores the interwoven relationship between technology, ideology, and the development of modern society through the lens of political philosophy. Alex Priou and Eli Karetney discuss the shortcomings of modernity in fulfilling the deeper longings of the human soul, the evolution of liberal, communist, and nationalist ideologies, the crisis of meaning in the age of technology, and how turning to ancient texts (like Plato, Homer, and the Bible) may provide wisdom for our time. The discussion centers around Priou's recent review of Karp and Zamiska’s The Technological Republic, considering the challenges and possibilities posed by modern technological society.
Key Themes & Discussion Points
1. The Relationship Between Technology, Ideology, and Modernity
[04:37] Alex Priou:
- Modernity is distinct for its technological sophistication and ideological division.
- Technology and ideology share the aim of total control by systematizing and regularizing processes and people, making outcomes predictable.
- Modern political thought reduces human nature to a homogenous, acquisitive type, contrasting with the ancient perspective that saw a diversity of human ends and motives.
“If you're going to systematize relations or produce regular outcomes, you need a regular input… Modernity begins with the attempt to reduce human beings to one sort of homogenous types. A kind of leveling occurs.” — Alex Priou [05:46]
- Ancient philosophy saw human beings as varied, with many pursuing ends beyond mere acquisition, like nobility or piety.
2. Ideology: Modernity’s Constraint and the Question of Higher Desires
[10:56] Eli Karetney & [11:54] Alex Priou:
- Liberal, communist, and nationalist ideologies attempt to systematize human labor—often neglecting higher human longings.
- In liberalism, outlets for greatness are present, but often limited to entertainment and commerce—not “noble self-sacrifice.”
- Both communism and militant nationalism channel longing toward systemic ends (revolution, military, etc.), but ultimately suppress or replace deeper mysteries or meaningful engagement with the soul.
“[Nationalism] in its most ideological form... has too much of the systemic quality... Everything is systematized. The mysteries are at some level solved through the ideological system, or they're at least suppressed...” — Alex Priou [15:41]
3. Can Liberalism Integrate Higher Ends? The Blending of Ideologies
[16:40] Eli Karetney & [17:27] Alex Priou:
- Attempts (from Rousseau to Isaiah Berlin) to infuse liberalism with forms of nationalism or greater purpose have typically failed unless they grappled seriously with the foundational materialism and hedonism of modern science.
- Contemporary blurring between liberal and socialist features has produced nationalist backlash worldwide.
“Unless one actually engages in a critique of modern natural science or modern materialism and hedonism... you're going to fall short.” — Alex Priou [17:37]
- Priou highlights the shift in universities: pure science and math receding as technology and engineering (practical applications) rise, reflecting societal uncertainties about the limits of modern materialism and a renewed interest in older, pre-modern sources of wisdom.
4. The Crisis of Meaning in Technology: The Technological Republic
[24:37] Eli Karetney & [26:20] Alex Priou:
- Priou reviews The Technological Republic, noting its “noble spirit” but warns against cynically reading it as a mere power grab by technologists.
- The book advocates for closer collaboration between state and technology leaders, but Priou senses an emerging call among technologists for civic virtue and higher ends.
- He stresses the need for philosophers and political theorists to engage in these conversations, believing there is genuine openness among some tech leaders.
“They’re calling for, on a deeper level, people who are interested in technology... should be thinking about the relationship between technology and higher longings.” — Alex Priou [27:49]
“To see people in positions of power actually start to think about these questions seems to me as a sort of opportunity for collaboration or at least conversation around these ends.” — Alex Priou [29:38]
- Priou’s own scholarly project is to establish a framework for higher education that doesn’t reduce people to technological or ideological types.
5. The American “Technological Republic”: Origins and Transformation
[32:01] Eli Karetney & [34:00] Alex Priou:
- Karp and Zamiska call America a technological republic from the start, but Priou argues this is a post-WWI/II development, not original to the founding.
- Early American innovation was decentralized; the explicit alliance between state and technology only emerged with federal contracting in the 20th century.
“I was not convinced that the technological republic as they are conceiving of it is original to the founding. It seems to me obviously much more a creature of post World War I or post World War II.” — Alex Priou [34:09]
- Priou critiques the book for neglecting republican virtues and average citizens’ roles, warning that regime change is already underway with technology’s advance.
6. Technology, Power, and the New Dangers: Oppenheimer, AI, and the Soul
[39:19] Eli Karetney & [40:11] Alex Priou:
- Priou notes the Manhattan Project (Oppenheimer) as a clarifying—and concerning—model for tech/state collaboration.
- AI’s dangers are less visually dramatic than nuclear weapons: instead of mass destruction, “AI will replace your family, your community, become your best friend… It’s more insidious than a nuclear explosion…” [41:02]
- Losing touch with reality and social bonds through technology or AI poses existential dangers that are harder to recognize and resist.
7. Restraint, Education, and the Return to Ancient Wisdom
[42:44] Eli Karetney & [44:02] Alex Priou:
- Confronting the transformative dangers of technology requires a return to deeper educational foundations, cultivating self-restraint and awareness of the limitations of modernity’s techno-materialist promises.
- Priou notes a resurgence of interest in substantive, ancient texts among young people—a nascent awareness that more than technological progress is necessary for flourishing.
- He argues for reviving an engagement with classics (not out of nostalgia, but for their enduring answers to perennial questions).
“A re-engagement with the tradition, not out of some romantic longing, but as having real purchase on the most pressing questions of our time... That kind of educational revival needs to occur on a societal level if we're going to enter the next stage of our history.”—Alex Priou [48:44]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Modernity and Soul:
“We live in the most technologically sophisticated times, but also the most ideologically divided times... Is there something in common to technological thinking and ideological thinking?... They both aim at a kind of total control.”
— Alex Priou [04:37–05:20] -
On Work and Human Ends:
“It’s viewing the human being primarily as a worker and laborer, even as a fighter. But in the abstract... Everything is systematized. The mysteries are at some level solved through the ideological system, or they're at least suppressed.”
— Alex Priou [15:10–16:00] -
On The Allegory of the Cave:
“There’s something deeply misleading about the cave... Images are the lowest level of cognition. They’re somehow misleading... One way I would just urge people to think about the cave is: we would all like that there is some objective truth to get out of there. But... how we respond to that, the possibilities you need to somehow lay out before you...”
— Alex Priou [65:44–68:44] -
On Friendship and Community in Philosophy:
“When you're thinking about what life you should live, you're also thinking about who you ought to live with... Who are my friends, who are the ones who will actually question me in the way that I ought to be questioned?”
— Alex Priou [72:31–72:51]
Timestamps of Important Segments
- [04:37] Exploring the relationship between technology, ideology, and modernity
- [10:56] The inadequacy of modern ideology in fulfilling the soul
- [16:40] Can liberalism borrow from nationalism to address higher ends?
- [20:52] The rise of engineering and technology in academia and society
- [24:37] Review of The Technological Republic—potential and pitfalls
- [32:01] The American “technological republic”: history and critique
- [39:19] The metaphor of Oppenheimer, nuclear weapons, and the dangers of AI
- [44:02] The role of education and the return to ancient wisdom
- [49:47] Scientific understanding of sacredness, discussions of Homer
- [51:40] The meaning of restraint in Homer and cultural creativity
- [59:44] Plato’s lessons from Homer and the value of a “great books” education
- [65:08] The Allegory of the Cave—multiple philosophical interpretations
- [69:53] Philosophy as friendship and the communal aspect of seeking truth
Conclusion
The conversation underscores the limits of modernity's technological and ideological frameworks to satisfy deeper human longings, arguing for a revival of philosophical inquiry rooted in ancient texts and traditions. Priou calls for a new approach to higher education and social dialogue—one that appreciates the irreducible complexity of the soul, the importance of meaningful restraint, and the necessity of broad, intergenerational conversations about the good life. The episode poses a challenge: to recover a richer sense of human ends and community in an age increasingly defined by systems, efficiency, and technological power.