Podcast Summary: “Devon's Forgotten Witches: 1860–1910”

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode Date: December 23, 2025
Host: Dr. Random Elcher
Guests: Mark Norman & Tracey Norman
Book Discussed: Devon's Forgotten Witches: 1860–1910 (The History Press, 2025)

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the recently published Devon's Forgotten Witches: 1860–1910, authored by Mark Norman and Tracey Norman. The discussion explores the persistence of witchcraft beliefs and practices in Devon during a period often overlooked in witchcraft history, drawing stories primarily from the British newspaper archives. The hosts and authors delve into the historical, cultural, and social dynamics of late 19th and early 20th-century witchcraft accusations, healing practices, and community responses, revealing unexpected continuities and evolution in attitude toward witchcraft.

Key Discussion Points

1. Introducing the Authors and Genesis of the Book

• Mark Norman is a public folklorist, creator of The Folklore Podcast, and founder of the Folklore Library and Archive in southwest UK.

  “A charity dedicated to collecting and preserving folklore materials in all formats, but...making those available through open access for the public.” — Mark Norman [02:14]

• Tracey Norman is an author, historian, and project manager at the Folklore Library and Archive, specializing in the study of witches and British witchcraft.
• The book arose from the success of a prior co-authored project (Dark Folklore), with a unique focus on 1860–1910, leveraging underexplored newspaper archives.

  “Nobody seems to have mined that for its resources until we came up with this book.” — Tracey Norman [04:35]

2. Why Devon? Why the Late Dates?

• The authors, based in Devon, realized that the county's archives were rich in witch-related cases, ignored in favor of earlier centuries by most historians.
• Cases from Devon often received national press coverage, hinting at broader, ongoing cultural fascinations.

3. Newspaper Research as Historical ‘Jigsaw’

• The nature of late Victorian newspaper syndication means stories are fragmented, regional, and sometimes elaborated or expanded by out-of-county reporters.

  “I always kind of describe it as doing a jigsaw puzzle where you don't know how many pieces you have, you don't know how many pieces you need, and there is no picture.” — Tracey Norman [05:44]

• Extra facts about cases often appear far from the original location, requiring creative synthesis by the researchers.

4. Is Devon Unusual?

• Devon isn’t unique in having witchcraft accusations: rural, “less enlightened” counties simply maintained such beliefs longer than cities, but similar cases appear across Britain and even abroad.

  “What we could say about counties like Devon is that they are considered...rural backwaters...which means belief...remains less enlightened for a longer period.” — Mark Norman [08:27]

• Healers and “charmers” continue practices remarkably similar to their early-modern predecessors.

5. Witchcraft and the Law (Vagrancy Act, Witchcraft Act)

• By 1860-1910, accusations were prosecuted under vagrancy and fraud laws, not for witchcraft per se. The focus was on “pretending to have powers” or deception for gain.
• Media and courts ridiculed all parties (“defendant or prosecutor or victim”), signaling such beliefs as outdated.

  “The way that they looked at it...was turning what used to be witchcraft in the courts into fraud and deception.” — Tracey Norman [11:42] “...the laughter in a court is recorded...They're trying to show that, you know, why do people believe in these enlightened times.” — Mark Norman [12:27]

6. Societal Attitudes and the Power of Mockery

• Press coverage was overwhelmingly negative, using language designed to shame, marginalize, and provoke laughter at “unbelievable superstition.”
• Only one case in all their research put a “witch” in a positive light, written posthumously by a landlord.
• Stories served dual purposes: warning against fraud, and dissuading belief in superstition.

7. White Witches and Folk Healers: The White Witch of Exeter

• The “White Witch of Exeter” was more a role or business than a single person—variously held by men (notably the Tuckett family) and, later, at least one woman.
• The role encompassed healing, charm-making, and sometimes astrology, with services marketed and remedies branded by familial reputation.

  “When we talk about the White Witch of Exeter, we're not talking about a person...We're talking about a role or a position.” — Mark Norman [22:07]

8. Boundaries of Witchcraft, Medicine, and Fraud

• Practices described in newspapers included a spectrum of magical, herbal, and divinatory techniques.
• The line between medicine, magic, and deception was often blurred for both practitioners and clients—even as courts saw it strictly as fraud.

9. The Press: Entertainment and Education

• Newspapers exploited witchcraft stories for entertainment, novelty, and to “educate” the public out of superstition.
• Sometimes cases included criminal acts or even murder, but the coverage remained sensational and mocking.

  “It was mostly for entertainment value in that way, wasn't it?” — Mark Norman [32:38] “Make sure you're not doing this, because otherwise we're going to laugh at you too.” — Tracey Norman [32:41]

10. Memorable Cases: “Ms. P and the Cocoa” (Story Time, 36:10–46:56)

• In 1908, a Miss P. was sued in Crediton’s debtor court for failing to pay her grocery bill. She claimed to have been bewitched by cocoa laced with a spell and elaborate incantation.
• The story echoed classic “charity refused” motifs but with a role reversal, and the case was ultimately dismissed as delusional and mocked in court.

  “Make them hot, make them swell, make them thin. Walk them away and work them away...” — (incantation recited by grocer’s daughter) [36:39–46:09]

• The strange inclusion of stirring the cocoa alluded to traditional magical rites (clockwise or anticlockwise).
• The debtors court, judge, and press treated Miss P’s claims as ridiculous; her memory and motives remain ambiguous, raising questions for both authors and listeners.

11. The Church and ‘Countermagic’

• Unlike in 16th/17th centuries, the church had largely retreated from direct involvement in witchcraft prosecution—but folklore, charm rituals, and magical thinking persisted in clerical and parish life.
• Notable anecdotes include the sexton burying bottles of ailments and vicars collecting anti-witch charms found in their churchyards.

  “He found himself quite surprised at the number of times he was being asked to bury bottles in the consecrated ground.” — Tracey Norman [48:07]

12. Continuities, Change, and Legacy

• At grassroots level, magical and healing beliefs changed little since the early modern period, despite legal and institutional derision.
• Similar dynamics—folk healing, community suspicion, ridicule, and belief in cunning folk—remain part of English rural life to the present day.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the research process:
  “It's a bit of a detective story in a way, because we're trying to...fit all of those bits together and come up with the whole, at the end of the day.” — Mark Norman [07:13]

• On the boundless ideological gap:
  “At grassroots level...that kind of set of beliefs really hadn't changed at all from what it was in the 1500s.” — Tracey Norman [31:01]

• On the church’s ambiguous role:
  “We were blessed here in the west country of having a whole range of what were termed conjuring persons...vicars who very much blurred that line between Christian working and more magical working.” — Mark Norman [51:32]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:14] — Authors’ introductions and background
• [04:35] — Rationale for project scope and period
• [07:13] — Newspaper ‘jigsaw’ methodology
• [08:27] — Discussion of Devon as a site of enduring belief
• [11:42] — Court attitudes & the legal framework post-1735
• [12:27] — Mockery and negativity in reporting
• [22:07] — Deep dive on the White Witch of Exeter
• [32:38] — Newspapers’ motivations and reportage style
• [36:10] — Story time: Ms. P and the Cocoa
• [47:41] — The Church’s changing role and countermagic stories
• [54:23] — Authors’ current and upcoming projects

Closing & Upcoming Work

• Mark Norman is working on a pop culture folklore book about the paranormal in “The Simpsons” and a folklore encyclopedia.
• Tracey Norman is editing a book about a 1687 Dorset witchcraft case and researching ghost folklore in the British newspaper archives.

  "We've written two together and haven't murdered each other yet, so the History Press obviously thinks it's a good idea..." — Tracey Norman [55:32]

Final Thoughts

This conversation reveals that the late 19th and early 20th centuries were not so rational or modern as one might suspect—beliefs in witchcraft, healing, and magic endured amidst mockery, legal redefinition, and social change. Devon's Forgotten Witches recovers these neglected stories, challenging simple narratives of progress and offering a rare glimpse into the persistence of folk belief at the dawn of the modern age.

Recommended for: historians, folklorists, cultural anthropologists, and anyone interested in the persistence of the supernatural in “enlightened” times.