Podcast Summary:
Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Chris Holmes (Burned by Books)
Guest: Yiming Ma, author of These Memories Do Not Belong To Us (Mariner Books, 2025)
Date: September 19, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode centers on Yiming Ma’s debut novel, These Memories Do Not Belong To Us—a speculative and structurally inventive book that explores the intersection of memory, technology, state surveillance, resistance, and human connection in a near-future world ruled by an all-powerful Qin Empire. The conversation dives into the inspirations and craft behind the novel, the geopolitical and technological anxieties it channels, resonant literary influences, and the power of stories to inspire action and shape identity.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Introduction to the Novel’s World
- Setting: The story takes place in a future dominated by the Qin Empire (a reimagined, monolithic China) which has conquered the world and re-engineered society with mind bank technology—devices installed in the brain to store and share memories.
- Plot Mechanic: The narrator inherits a collection of illicit memories from his mother, whose stories resist the erasure and censorship of the regime.
- Themes: Surveillance, censorship, preservation of the past, personal and collective resistance.
"Our narrator has just received an illicit inheritance from his mother...a series of shared memories stored in a technology called a mind bank."
—Chris Holmes [03:01]
2. Opening Passage Reading (04:16–06:29)
Yiming Ma reads from the opening of the novel, immersing listeners in the relationship between mother and son and the threats posed by memory-sharing technology.
“Some of the memory epics from which she drew her stories must have been censored already by the Party. Any loyal patriot would have deleted these memories.”
—Yiming Ma reading [04:26–05:10]
3. Worldbuilding: The Qin Empire and Mind Banks
- The Qin Empire’s mind bank technology revolutionizes not only warfare but daily life, education, and entertainment. It is also a primary tool for surveillance and control.
- Elements like the Gaokao (exam) and social credit are woven deeply into every aspect of society and culture.
“In the present, mind banks become something that citizens use not only for military capabilities, but it becomes a consumer product as well...and also allows the party to actually surveil their memories…”
—Yiming Ma [07:22–08:00]
4. Memory as a Literary and Technological Concern
- Ma began writing during the COVID-19 pandemic, reflecting on memory as a final refuge amidst societal trauma and isolation.
- The core speculative question: "What if even our memories were no longer safe?"
"When everything else was stripped away, at least we all had our past...But...what if even our memories were no longer safe?"
—Yiming Ma [08:34]
5. Structure: Time, Non-Linearity, and Reader Agency
- The novel is often compared to Cloud Atlas and other “constellation novels” for its non-linear, memory-driven narrative.
- Ma intentionally gives readers the option to choose the order in which they read the memories, reclaiming agency.
"As much work as I did creating the order, I also thought it was important to give the reader that option..."
—Yiming Ma [11:57]
6. Story Spotlight: The Chanko Nabe / Sumo Wrestler Memory
- Inspired by Ma's own time in Japan, this story is a microcosm of the novel’s broader themes: family, survival, memory, and resistance under pressure.
- The food and cultural details serve as touchstones for identity and continuity against erasure.
“I attended my first grand sumo tournament…chankonabe started there. But I think in many ways the story there is a microcosm of the whole book. It's a mosaic...”
—Yiming Ma [14:53–16:13]
7. Blending Real Historical Figures into Fiction
- Historical and cultural anchors like sumo legend Akebono root the speculative stories in the recognizable past, grounding the reader across shifting timeframes.
"I was very inspired by wrestlers and by people throughout history and just wanted to pay homage...Placement of these historical figures...important for time."
—Yiming Ma [19:48–20:20]
8. Literature Versus Technological Interiorities
- The novel explores whether fiction and literature can retain their role in cultivating empathy and interiority as technologies like mind banks and AI arise.
- Anxiety over AI, attention economies, and literature's diminishing space is a recurring concern.
“In the race to attract eyeballs and attention, even Netflix and other media...were taking the space that novels previously held.”
—Yiming Ma [21:22]
9. Orwellian Parallels and Surveillance
- Direct reference to Orwell’s 1984 and the notion that "those who control the present control the past."
- Ma insists the book is not just a critique of China, but an exploration of what happens when extraordinary circumstances force ordinary people to adapt and survive.
"One quote from 1984 was always in my head...those who control the present control the past, and those who control the past control the future."
—Yiming Ma [24:15]
10. Contemporary China as an Influence
- Shanghai, Ma's birthplace and 'anchor,' serves as inspiration for the evolution depicted in the novel.
- The novel flips the global racial hierarchy, making Asian characters the default and placing readers within the majority perspective.
"The mind bank and...memory transfer allowed me to kind of flip the racial hierarchy and envision a world in which the Asian protagonist could be seen through the lens of the majority..."
—Yiming Ma [28:10]
11. Watchmakers and the Value of Manual Craft
- The story “After the Bloom” explores watchmaking—a metaphor for discipline, artistry, and the slow, careful persistence required for survival and storytelling.
- Ma reveals his fascination with horology, drawing parallels to literary craft.
"Watchmaking and horology are interests of mine. I do collect vintage watches...I love learning how different people tick..."
—Yiming Ma [31:09–34:33]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “Perhaps that was why she told me all those stories via voice in the privacy of our bedrooms, back when we were permitted to stop our mind banks from logging data at home...”
—Yiming Ma, reading the novel’s first page [05:45] - “Even if the sky collapsed, she would use it as a blanket to warm her body.” (about his mother)
—Yiming Ma, reading [06:03] - "The speculative element of memory transfer...all of those explore themes that are important and especially urgent today, such as authoritarianism or collective memory resistance, but I think at its heart...most of the stories revolve around the themes of survival and the tension between survival and resistance..."
—Yiming Ma [16:09]
Book Recommendations (by Yiming Ma) [35:46]
- Headshot by Rita Bullwinkel
- Archives of Unknown Universes by Ruben Reyes Jr.
- When the Harvest Comes by Michelle Norris
- River East, River West by Aubrey Nescur
- Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro (a key influence)
- Exhibit by Ro Kwan
Timestamps to Key Segments
- Opening & book introduction: 01:30–03:58
- Reading from the novel: 04:16–06:29
- Worldbuilding & mind banks: 06:44–08:05
- Discussion of memory & origins of the novel: 08:30–09:28
- On structure & reader agency: 10:02–12:21
- On the Japan/sumo wrestler/Chanko Nabe story: 13:27–17:06
- On real figures in fiction (Akebono): 19:05–20:20
- Literature vs. tech as means into other minds: 21:10–22:47
- Orwell’s influence & surveillance: 24:15–25:38
- Contemporary China’s influence: 27:13–29:37
- Watchmaking as metaphor: 29:37–34:57
- Book recommendations: 35:46–36:34
Closing Thoughts
Chris Holmes closes the conversation by noting the novel's unique blend of speculative fiction, personal and collective trauma, and the search for forms of connection and resistance. Yiming Ma's reflections provide insight not just into the world of his novel, but into how fiction can inspire change and reflection in the real world.
Recommended for listeners interested in:
- Literary speculative fiction
- Issues of surveillance, memory, and identity
- Immigrant narratives
- The craft of writing nonlinear/constellation novels
- Literary responses to technology and authoritarianism