Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Zara Anishanslin, "The Painter's Fire: A Forgotten History of the Artists Who Championed the American Revolution" (Harvard UP, 2025)
Air Date: October 7, 2025
Host: Dr. Miranda Melcher
Guest: Dr. Zara Anishanslin

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dr. Miranda Melcher interviews Dr. Zara Anishanslin (sometimes spelled Hanselen in the transcript), historian and author of "The Painter's Fire: A Forgotten History of the Artists Who Championed the American Revolution." The conversation uncovers untold stories of painters, poets, and sculptors who engaged in revolutionary politics through creative and unconventional means. The episode highlights how art was wielded as a political tool—and explores the lives of marginalized artists whose impact on American and transatlantic revolutionary culture has been largely overlooked.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Author’s Background & Approach

• Material Culture as History’s Lens
  Dr. Anishanslin describes herself as a "historian with a thing for things," explaining her intellectual commitment to material culture as a method for uncovering hidden histories—particularly those of women and people of color overlooked in written archives.
  "What I like to do is tell stories about the past that are inspired by the material world...the written archive so often historically has privileged elite people, and particularly white men." — Anishanslin [03:52]

• Transatlantic Narratives & Marginalized Patriots
  The book intentionally tells a transatlantic story, foregrounding revolutionary figures who couldn’t participate as political leaders due to marginalized identities, and thus turned to art, espionage, and creativity.
  "...these forgotten patriots...participated politically in very unusual ways...they used their creative vision and their passionate attachment to liberty..." — Anishanslin [03:52]

2. Opening with a Lost Painting: Symbolism and Submerged Histories

• Joseph Wright’s Revolutionary Portrait
  The episode opens with a dramatic account of Joseph Wright’s painting—his mother Patience Wright holding the decapitated wax head of King Charles I, with busts of George III and Queen Charlotte observing. This overt act of artistic regicide hung in the Royal Academy in 1780—an astonishing display of political audacity in the presence of the monarchy.
  "What she held in her lap wasn't just any head. It was the head—the decapitated head of King Charles I..." — Anishanslin [06:03]
  The painting, lost at sea with much of Wright’s art, serves as a metaphor for the fragmentary survival of revolutionary artwork, and symbolizes the broader erasure of these histories.

• Art as a Vessel for Political Protest
  Wright’s painting sparked controversy and admiration, reflecting not only the heated politics of the era but also the divisively civil, transatlantic nature of the Revolution.
  "...how astounding that this portrait made it into the Royal Academy show in 1780 at all...a really great reminder that this war was always divisive...art was a mechanism that was used to inspire protest and allegiance and make a political statement." — Anishanslin [10:11]

3. The Remarkable Life of Daphne and Prince Dima

• Daphne: Agency under Oppression
  Daphne, born in Africa and enslaved in Massachusetts, ingeniously preserved her heritage by naming her son Prince Dima (a West African name). She maneuvered her enslavers into bringing her son back into her household and advocating for his artistic training—a rare feat.
  "...she really pushed and prodded to get Christian and Henry Barnes to purchase her son back into the household and...to serve as his art patrons." — Anishanslin [13:06]

• Prince Dima: Breaking Barriers in Art
  Denied training by American artists because of his race, Dima trained in London with Robert Edge Pine and returned to Boston as the first identifiable enslaved professional portrait painter.
  "...[he] ends up getting the Barneses to take Prince Dima to London to get professional portrait training...he comes back...sets up shop as our first identifiable enslaved portrait painter..." — Anishanslin [13:06]
  Despite these achievements, both Daphne and Dima died in poverty, underlining the persistent structural barriers they and others faced.

4. Parallels with Phillis Wheatley

• Similar Paths, Shared Constraints
  Like Dima, the poet Phillis Wheatley was recognized for her talent but only found patronage for her work in London. Both struggled against the limits imposed by slavery, benefitting from unusual support by white enslavers but ultimately denied full professional or economic autonomy.
  "Phillis Wheatley also cannot get the support for her art to be furthered in Boston...it is only in London that...she has the patronage..." — Anishanslin [18:32]
  Their stories challenge the myth of the single "exceptional" Black genius and point to suppressed creative richness among enslaved people.

5. Art, Protest, and Politics

• The Political Power of Art
  Dima’s surviving works are portraits of local white residents; while not overtly political in subject, their very existence is politicized—especially as the violent aftermath of revolution left physical marks on the artworks themselves (e.g., bayonet gash in Christian Barnes portrait).
  "What happens to his portraits is very political...that gash is the result of Patriot soldiers running a bayonet through the heart..." — Anishanslin [23:01]

• Patience Wright as Artist and Spy
  Patience Wright’s wax museum in London functioned as a political stage and an espionage hub, featuring symbolic figures and communicating with American contacts (sometimes smuggling information in wax heads across the Atlantic).
  "She passes this information...in wax heads that she ships across the Atlantic for her sister Rachel...to pass along to the members of Continental Congress..." — Anishanslin [33:43]

• Phillis Wheatley
  Wheatley’s poetry was direct and savvy, tailoring patriot themes for various audiences—including overt praise for George Washington and subtler appeals to English patrons.

6. Risks of Revolution: Art, Espionage, and Treason

• Living under Threat
  The British Treason Act of 1777 made pro-American political activities on British soil and the high seas extremely perilous. Arrests, indefinite imprisonment without trial, and the rare execution loomed over participants.
  "There is a very real danger if you are found engaged in pro American treasonous activities..." — Anishanslin [29:08]

• Famous Connections: Franklin at the Nexus
  Benjamin Franklin’s wide network and international presence made him a pivotal figure in these stories—serving as art patron, information broker, and connection point for both famed and forgotten revolutionaries.
  "...it's impossible to tell a story that doesn't at some point connect with Benjamin Franklin..." — Anishanslin [35:59]

7. Why Do We Forget These Artists?

• The Dangers of Archival Silence
  Much revolutionary art did not survive, and the lack of museum recognition leads to erasure from historical narratives. Structural biases—race, gender, and class—also play a decisive role.
  "People tend to, I think, valorize what's in a museum...But I think the other part...comes back to the identity of these forgotten people I'm discussing..." — Anishanslin [38:58]

• Interrogating 'Individual Genius'
  The recognition of Franklin juxtaposed with the oblivion faced by figures like Prince Dima or Phillis Wheatley calls attention to deeply entrenched gatekeeping in art and history.

8. Surprises and Sobering Realities in the Archive

• Unexpected Networks and Depths
  Anishanslin recounts her surprise upon discovering the scale of pro-American sentiment among Britons, and the complex interpersonal webs—including the hidden stories of Juliet, another enslaved woman whose fate unfolds in the margins of white correspondents’ letters, illuminating both solidarity and the horrors of slavery in New England.
  "I've figured out that Juliet was not, as I originally thought...a young girl...but was, in fact, another enslaved person in the household...she not only sells the baby away from her, but Juliet herself..." — Anishanslin [41:09]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Retrieving Lost Histories:
  "...just because things are under the water doesn't mean they're not there. And much as we can retrieve items from a shipwreck, we can retrieve these lost stories from the past." — Anishanslin [11:37]

• On Complexity of Slavery:
  "...this is a world of such interpersonal complexities and just thinking of the astounding breadth of experience..." — Anishanslin [44:19]

• On the Myth of the 'Unique' Genius:
  "They are extraordinary, but they're not unique...there are many enslaved people who are talented and creative and just weren't allowed to pursue their talents..." — Anishanslin [21:08]

• On Art as Political Action:
  "The fact that he was creating art in the early 1770s in Boston...itself is a revolutionary act in some ways." — Anishanslin [23:14]

• On the Archival Absence:
  "If it's not in a museum, then it doesn't make it as much into certainly the art historical books or the historical books..." — Anishanslin [38:58]

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:52 — Author's approach to history and marginalized stories
• 06:03 — Story and analysis of Joseph and Patience Wright’s revolutionary painting
• 13:06 — Life and significance of Daphne and Prince Dima
• 18:32 — Parallels between Prince Dima and Phillis Wheatley; constraints and legacy
• 23:01 — How art functioned as political protest and survived (or didn’t)
• 29:08 — Risks of espionage and the Treason Act, Patience Wright as a spy
• 35:59 — Benjamin Franklin’s central role in these art and political networks
• 38:58 — Why these artists and their contributions have been forgotten
• 41:09 — Surprises in the archive, uncovering hidden lives like Juliet’s
• 46:29 — Dr. Anishanslin’s current and future projects

Concluding Thoughts

This episode delivers an eye-opening exploration of the intersection between art and politics during the American Revolution, reframing our understanding of who was a revolutionary—and how. By drawing on overlooked artifacts, threading together transatlantic networks, and recovering marginalized voices, Dr. Anishanslin’s work as discussed here challenges us to see the American founding as not merely a political or military tale, but a cultural and artistic upheaval, broadening the canvas of history beyond its usual subjects.

Dr. Miranda Melcher:
"...what you were talking about earlier of kind of whose individual genius gets recognised in what ways...calls that into question a bit too. So definitely some useful comparisons there." [40:40]

Dr. Zara Anishanslin:
"...I think we still, again, academics talk about this a lot, but I think the general public, I still run into people who don't know there was slavery in New England before the revolution. So, you know, the sort of richness and horror of that story is something that I like to share with people..." [45:04]

Further Reading:

• "The Painter's Fire: A Forgotten History of the Artists Who Championed the American Revolution" (Harvard UP, 2025)

Host outro:
Check out Dr. Anishanslin’s ongoing projects, including her podcast "Thing for Things" and forthcoming research.