Podcast Summary: New Books Network — Zubeda Jalalzai, "Literary License and the West’s Romance with Afghanistan" (Bloomsbury, 2023)

Date: December 22, 2025
Host: Qasim Ahmad Zai
Guest: Dr. Zubaydah (Zubeda) Jalalzai

Main Theme

In this episode, Dr. Zubaydah Jalalzai discusses her book Literary License and the West’s Romance with Afghanistan (Lexington Books, 2023). The conversation explores how Western literature and travel writing have historically framed Afghanistan, focusing on the concept of "literary license"—the interplay between fact, fantasy, and affect in texts spanning from the 18th century to the post-9/11 era. Jalalzai probes the implications of genre, aesthetics, and narrative desire on imperial power, knowledge production, and contemporary perceptions of Afghanistan.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Intellectual Origins and Definition of "Literary License"

• Origins of the Project ([03:07]):

  • Dr. Jalalzai’s shift from early American literature/history to Afghan studies post-9/11, sparked by "the profound level of ignorance" in American discourses about Afghanistan.
  • Attempts to compare how Afghanistan and America were both sites of British settlement and imperial discourse.

• Defining Literary License ([03:07 – 05:26]):

  • Literary license described as "the permission Western writers seem to grant themselves to blur fact, fantasy and effect when writing about Afghanistan."
  • It's both an aesthetic practice and "completely implicated" in colonial power and knowledge production.
  • Not always consciously deployed—sometimes entwined with personal or colonial agendas.

  "Literature offers a unique point of contact... between self and other, as this imaginative space... tells us much more about the authors and the points of view of the people writing these kinds of works."
  — Dr. Jalalzai [03:07]

Genre, Epistemology, and the "Romance" of Afghanistan

• Genre Ambiguity ([06:18 – 07:55]):

  • Travel narratives blend documentation, ethnography, and romance, resulting in epistemological slippage.
  • Some writers, like Alexander Burnes, freely mixed fact, intelligence gathering, and romanticized storytelling without separating them.

  "Is it documentary, is it scientific, is it geographic?... That slippage, that move into romance or more fiction comes into play."
  — Dr. Jalalzai [06:48]

• Placing the Book in Postcolonial Studies ([08:46]):

  • Afghanistan has often been marginalized as a mere extension of British-Indian relations, yet possesses unique colonial dynamics deserving independent critique.

Colonial Knowledge, Orientalism, and Power

• Orientalism and Its Limits ([10:07 – 11:42]):

  • Western representations vary widely, even among British writers; power is not always straightforwardly in the Westerner’s hands.
  • Dr. Jalalzai challenges simplified "Orientalist" readings, citing greater complexity and invoking Homi Bhabha's ideas of "hybridity and mimicry," rather than Edward Said's frameworks alone.

  "It's not always an easy thing to pinpoint who is in power here... sometimes the British maneuvered through spaces like Afghanistan in a bumbling way."
  — Dr. Jalalzai [10:07]

Literature vs. Historiography

• Overlap of Literary and Historical Texts ([13:20 – 15:13]):
  • Literary works and 19th-century historiography share similar themes—"the Afghan other: the ungovernable, the unknowable, the unpredictable."
  • Some colonial figures, like S.S. Thorburn, allowed for local Afghan voices within their work, complicating overtly racist frames.

Comparing 19th Century and Post-9/11 Discourses

• Continuities and Divergences ([15:13 – 17:54]):

  • Post-9/11 Afghan writers (e.g., Khaled Hosseini, Tamim Ansari, Sara Shah) reproduce older romantic tropes but package them as anti-imperialist, "reintroducing" Afghanistan to Western readers.
  • Critique: These writers seldom directly confront U.S. imperialism.

  "Their anti-imperialism is questionable because they don't criticize. They weren't as vocally critical of the US role in the war on terror as they could have been."
  — Dr. Jalalzai [17:54]

Methodology & Critical Intervention

• Bridging Literary Criticism and History ([18:08 – 19:59]):

  • Advocates reading literary texts, journalism, and "scientific" travel accounts through a unified, critical, "new historicist" lens.
  • Probes how imagination and literariness infuse not just fiction but also policy and ethnography.

  "...journalistic or scientific documentation, both then and now, must be read through the same sort of critical lens that we do any kind of constructed literature."
  — Dr. Jalalzai [18:33]

Contemporary Implications

• Impact on Modern Policy & Perception ([19:59 – 22:30]):

  • Urges Western policymakers and the public to critically reflect on historical patterns in their understanding of Afghanistan, to avoid repetition of ignorance and harms.
  • Calls for increased integration of genuine Afghan voices in Western literary and academic spheres.

• Key Takeaway for Readers ([23:15]):

  • The richness and longevity of Western engagement with Afghanistan; understanding both the "personalities of the authors" and "glimmers of Afghans themselves," despite mediation.

  "If you really dive deeply into these works... there's so much there that tells us about the... glimmers of Afghans themselves, even if they're highly mediated."
  — Dr. Jalalzai [23:15]

Personal Connection

• Jalalzai’s Background ([24:12 – 25:33]):
  • Born in Quetta, of Pashtun heritage, with deep familial and linguistic ties to Afghanistan.
  • After 9/11, compelled to "correct the record" amid widespread misconception and racial profiling in the US.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the book's main argument:

  "Literary license... has everything to do with colonial power, but it doesn't always maintain colonial power depending on the particular text."
  — Dr. Jalalzai [05:26]

• On genre-blurring in travel writing:

  "That slippage, that move into romance or more fiction comes into play..."
  — Dr. Jalalzai [06:48]

• On the pitfalls of contemporary "anti-imperial" literature:

  "Their anti-imperialism is questionable because they don't criticize... the US role in the war on terror as they could have been."
  — Dr. Jalalzai [17:54]

• On why the project matters:

  "I just felt myself more and more called upon to correct the record, even though I'm not Afghan... I'm ethnic Pashtun and so, and I speak Pashto."
  — Dr. Jalalzai [24:12]

Timeline of Key Segments

• 01:36 — Podcast starts, introduction to Dr. Jalalzai and the book's concept.
• 03:07 — Intellectual origins of the project and the definition of "literary license."
• 06:18 — Exploration of genre and epistemology in travel writing.
• 08:46 — Book’s role in the new postcolonial turn in Afghanistan studies.
• 10:07 — Complicating the Edward Said "Orientalist" critique through examples from British writings on Afghanistan.
• 13:20 — Comparison between literary and historiographical representations of Afghanistan.
• 15:13 — 19th-century versus post-9/11 discursive tropes.
• 18:08 — Methodological innovations and critical approach.
• 19:59 — Broader implications for policy, media, and cross-cultural exchange.
• 23:15 — Main takeaway for readers.
• 24:12 — Dr. Jalalzai’s personal connection to the subject.

Conclusion

Dr. Zubaydah Jalalzai’s Literary License and the West’s Romance with Afghanistan calls for a re-examination of how Afghanistan is represented and imagined in Western literary and historical texts. The conversation highlights the dangers of literary "romance" that persists across centuries, the imperative to question established epistemologies, and the necessity of amplifying Afghan voices in the ongoing global conversation.

Recommended for:

• Scholars of literature, history, postcolonial and empire studies
• Policy-makers, humanitarian observers, general readers interested in Afghanistan and the politics of representation