"Forget Count Binface, SDP & Reclaim Will Give Clacton a Real Choice" Laurence Fox & W. Clouston

Summary

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Podcast Summary: New Culture Forum

Episode: "Forget Count Binface, SDP & Reclaim Will Give Clacton a Real Choice"

Guests: Laurence Fox (Reclaim Party), William Clouston (SDP)
Host/Interviewer: Rafe (New Culture Forum)
Date: August 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the New Culture Forum hosts a discussion between Laurence Fox (leader of the Reclaim Party) and William Clouston (leader of the Social Democratic Party, SDP) ahead of the high-profile Clacton by-election. With major parties refusing to contest the seat where Nigel Farage is standing for Reform UK, the Reclaim and SDP leaders discuss their motivations for running, policy differences, and their vision for Clacton and Britain at large. The conversation delves into issues the mainstream media often neglects, such as democratic participation, decline of coastal towns, mass immigration, welfare reform, free speech, and cultural identity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Stand in Clacton? (00:30–04:16)

• Motivation: Both leaders criticize the major parties for boycotting the by-election, calling it undemocratic.

  • Clouston (SDP): "The establishment parties are boycotting it, which is wrong because it's a proper by election... people deserve as big a choice as they can in a democratic system." (01:49)
  • Fox (Reclaim): "It's so unutterably disrespectful of the main parties... their job is to seek election, isn't it? ... what is really important is to not mock democracy." (02:23)

• Calling Out Political Strategy: Fox suggests the main parties deliberately avoid contesting Farage, never wanting him near Downing Street, while highlighting the importance of debate and voter choice.

2. The Case Against 'Joke' Candidates and Voter Choice (04:16–05:21)

• Clouston: Warns that media and political elites hope Count Binface and other novelty candidates do well, turning Clacton into a joke, to the detriment of serious political discourse.

  • "If [Count Binface] does very well, the joke's on Clacton. ... 55% ... didn't vote for Nigel Farage last time." (04:16)

• Importance of Alternatives: Both guests agree on the need for serious platforms amid the vacuum left by established parties.

3. Shared Values, Differences & The Need for Consensus (05:05–09:16)

• Fox: Praises the SDP as patriotic and sensible on cultural issues despite being "slightly left leaning" economically.
  • "You could also call the SDP a patriotic party ... that understands and cherishes British heritage and culture." (05:21)
• Building Consensus: Fox sees the by-election as a chance to air debates on core issues—immigration, gender, education, arts, and the decline of consensus on the right.
• Clouston: Highlights SDP's hardline published immigration stance and argues for protectionism in trade and national ownership of key assets (like water utilities).
  • "I want these assets, these national assets owned by us. I think we're perfectly able to own them...those are the things that, if you're a thoughtful voter in Clacton, where do you put your vote?" (07:09)

4. Reclaim, Reform & Free Speech (09:16–10:58)

• Fox: Admits Reclaim is essentially a platform for him to stand and highlight freedom of speech, which he argues is under threat in Britain.
  • "We've had 12,183 people arrested ... for social media violations for expressing opinions ... more than double ... Belarus." (09:19)
• Critique of Farage: Fox vows to hold Farage to account on issues of free speech and claims the main parties suppress debate.

5. The Problem with Boycotting (11:01–13:43)

• No Debates: Farage declined debate invitations, partly due to logistical challenges (34 candidates) but also, guests suggest, to avoid detailed scrutiny.
• National Debt & Fiscal Policy: Clouston calls for honest talk about unaffordable public spending, especially on the triple lock pension.
  • "It's unaffordable ... If you want someone who's not serious about the country's ability to pay this, vote for someone else because I'm not going to tell lies about it." (12:22)

6. Measures of Success in the By-Election (13:59–15:38)

• Impact Over Votes: Fox sees success not in votes but in raising vital questions and challenging Farage publicly.
  • "It's really important that someone like William and someone like me ... hold into account over free speech." (14:16)
• Clouston: Stresses the importance of putting forward a serious alternative and not allowing Reform or Farage to go unchallenged by major parties.

7. Decline of Coastal Towns & Community Revival (17:53–22:45)

• Listening to Locals: Clouston said residents care deeply about public spaces and local pride.
  • "People really care. You go into a town or village and is it loved, is it kept? Is it nicely looked after? ... public realm always comes out." (17:53)
• Lost Heritage: Fox laments how coastal towns have been neglected and calls for cultural regeneration and meaningful investment.
  • "It's a crime how much we ignore them....we've just gone nah." (18:36)
• Policy Proposals: Investment, infrastructure renewal, local cultural events, and regaining control of local fishing waters to boost economies.

8. Immigration: Policies & Realities (24:42–29:13)

• SDP Policy (Clouston):
  • Immediate deportation and administrative detention for illegal arrivals.
  • Labour market planning: End reliance on mass immigration for NHS and other sectors.
  • Visa bans for countries with high rates of criminality and welfare abuse among their migrants.
  • "End mass immigration...Visa bans, travel bans, to countries that have immigrants, that have disproportionate criminality, welfare dependence and economic inactivity..." (24:42)
• Discussion on Religion & Culture: Fox pushes for an open conversation about Islam in public life, saying it's relevant to representation and integration.
  • "We do need to have a conversation about Islam and we also need to have a conversation about the sort of Islam that we have in Britain." (26:58)

9. Welfare & Economic Reform (29:13–32:45)

• SDP Approach (Clouston):

  • Welfare now outstrips public investment, needs tough but humane reform.
  • Proposes gradual reduction in triple-lock pensions, housing benefits, and disability payments.
  • Reinstate public investment in infrastructure and housing.

• Cultural Factors: Fox criticizes "demoralizing" cultural narratives blaming Brits for their own hardships.

  • "Don't demoralize people with, you know, a. The cultural stuff of, like, you're a racist and you do everything that's wrong with this country was your grandfather's fault." (31:33)

10. Closing Pitches (32:45–34:28)

• Fox: "Vote for William Clouston. He's really great." (33:03)
• Clouston: Offers the SDP as a patriotic, serious alternative for the majority in Clacton, focusing on public ownership, reindustrialization, ending mass immigration, and cultural clarity.
  • "It's the party in the patriotic state. We don't want a large state. We wanted a state that does the basics right." (33:34)
• Fox (on Reclaim): "The reclaimed party is the party you hope you never have to vote for... we're facing an existential crisis of our actual nation." (34:00)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the by-election boycott:

  • "The establishment parties are boycotting it, which is wrong... people deserve as big a choice as they can in a democratic system." — William Clouston (01:49)

• On public assets and water ownership:

  • "When Clactonians turn on their tap... their money is siphoned off to German multinationals and Gulf states that own parts of Anglia Water. And I'm just saying, I think that's wrong." — William Clouston (07:09)

• On free speech and criminalization:

  • "We've had 12,183 people arrested... for social media violations for expressing opinions, which is more than double... Belarus and China comes in fourth behind there." — Laurence Fox (09:19)

• On British coastal towns:

  • "It's a crime how much we ignore them... you could have these places right there on these beautiful, stunning beaches with these great cultural heritage where slapstick and all of the great stuff came from. But for some reason, we've just gone nah." — Laurence Fox (18:36)

• On mass immigration and public policy:

  • "No health secretary in the last 30 years has bothered to train enough clinicians and nurses and doctors for their NHS needs. ... Meanwhile, millions of young British people aren't given roots into that industry. That is wrong." — William Clouston (24:42)

• On the existential stakes:

  • "We're facing an existential crisis of our actual nation." — Laurence Fox (34:00)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Segment | |----------|------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:30–01:49 | Introduction & set-up of Clacton by-election | | 01:49–04:16 | Why are SDP & Reclaim standing? Critique of party boycott | | 04:16–05:21 | Dismissal of novelty candidates and serious voter choice | | 05:05–09:16 | Policy alignment & differences, call for consensus on the right | | 09:16–10:58 | Free speech crisis and Reclaim’s raison d'être | | 11:01–13:43 | No debates with Farage, fiscal policy & national debt | | 13:59–15:38 | Measuring success & holding Farage/Reform accountable | | 17:53–22:45 | Revival of coastal towns, public space, cultural heritage | | 24:42–29:13 | Immigration policies & their effects on Britain and Clacton | | 29:13–32:45 | Welfare reform & economic justice, cultural demoralization | | 32:45–34:28 | Closing statements – why vote SDP or Reclaim |

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Tone & Format

The conversation is frank, combative yet amiable, and rich with both policy detail and cultural commentary. Both leaders are openly critical of mainstream parties and unafraid to address controversial issues. The overall mood is one of dissent and advocacy for open debate, aimed at voters who feel left behind or unrepresented by the political establishment.

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For more on the policies, platforms, or to see these discussions in action, the full episode offers deeper detail and lively exchanges that capture the mood of British politics at a turning point.

Transcript

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[Interviewer (Rafe)]

Hello and welcome to the show. Clacton has seized the national attention not only because Nigel Farage is defending the safest reform seat in the country, but because every other major political party has decided not to stand against him. Major appalls of acumen with the main political party is leaving the scene. Two smaller parties have decided to make their stand in Clacton. The Social Democratic Party, the sdp led by William Clouston, and the Reclaimed Party led by Lawrence Fox. We're going to be asking them why they're standing in Clacton, what they hope to achieve, what they're offering the people of Clacton and Britain more broadly and what distinguishes them from the other major parties in the country. We should say here at the New Culture Forum, as you know, we're not affiliated with any political party. We are a small c Conservative traditional patriotic organization. Our viewers and members support the sdp, support reclaim, support Reform, Restore and the Conservatives. And of course we've had many of the senior figures from all of these parties on, on our channel. Welcome back, Lawrence and William. William, the most obvious question I suppose is to ask you why Clacton? It's not a marginal seat, it's a very strong safe seat. Nigel is forecast to get a big majority. What caused you to stand? What was your motivation?

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

I think the motivation is that the establishment parties are boycotting it, which is wrong because it's a proper by election. Members of Parliament can resign and they have done in the past, it'll happen in the future. And you gotta remember the person that's triggered this is leading the party that is pretty much ahead in the polls or has been in the last two years. And boycotting it is not an answer. So it was, it was, as you say, it's a vacuum and people deserve as big a choice as they can in a democratic system. So we thought we could, couldn't resist Rafe Lawrence.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

I think it's so unutterably disrespectful of the main parties to who basically their job is to seek election, isn't it? That's what politicians do. And for them to say, no, it doesn't exist and it's fine. And I know, we all know what the plan is with Nigel, which is that he never gets anywhere near 10 Downing street and they've decided that. So I think that what is really important is to not mock democracy. It's important to say that democracy is valid and real. Whether you think, you know, David Davis stood down, didn't he? And then Reese did and people are still trying to work out why he did that. But you can see what Nigel's doing. Nigel knows that they're going to try and stop him getting into Downing street. They're going to do that and we've seen all too brutally what lengths people will go to to do that. So what he's looking for is a stonking, Stonking, Stonking mandate from the electorate, which I, he gets strangely, you know, probably will much as you know. But the job really is to try and stand there for the democracy to say it's important that these things are debated. Clearly you can't just Kemi Badenokoff or Andy Burnham. What's different from this at Makefield really? You know, someone sets aside and comes and comes through. Makefield was there to get Andy Burnham in. The Burnham bounce happens. Farage is going, I want a very, very strong mandate and obviously, you know, one hopes that you vote for me. Well, secretly I don't, to be honest. I'm not going to lie about that but I want to make, I want to draw attention to the election itself.

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

Well, and the presence of both of you, that means it will be a different by election as opposed to Nigel simply standing alone as the only serious candidate against, you know, Count Bin Face and some other unknown quantities. So what positive messages are you hoping will come out from your presence at the by elections? What message would you like to portray which wouldn't be there obviously if he was standing alone?

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

Well, that's the point. I mean the, the establishment want Bin Face to do rather well. He look British people like a joke but if he does very well, the joke's on Clacton. And that's what people said to me on Saturday, lots of them. It wouldn't be good for the, the town or the constituency if that happened. So now we just, I mean, 50, you've got to remember, Ray, 55 or thereby didn't vote for Nigel Farage last time. So the big, you know, the majority of Clacton voters are not reform voters and where do they go? So look, you know, there are 34 candidates, a lot of them novelty candidates. People have a right to stand. But if you're looking for a serious political party, a small but growing one with a proper platform that has an offer, then I think we're the best option to go for Oren.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

Yeah, strangely I don't disagree. I think the SCP has got a wonderful and brilliant platform. I think that there is. And you know, you could reasonably call the SDP slightly left leaning.

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

Yeah. On economics definitely. In trade and industry. Yeah, sure.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

But you could also call the SDP a patriotic party and a party full of common sense thinkers and party that understands and cherishes British heritage and culture and all those sorts of things. And there is on this side of the argument the non pink haired pictures of Nigel with Guillotine's side of the argument. There is a consensus that needs to be formed and that consensus has been abrogated by the Conservatives and by everybody else. And so I think this election is an opportunity to say, okay, well where do we stand on things like immigration? What are our views on Islam? What are we going to do about this? So this idea of illegal immigrants, you know, what do we do with our illegal immigrants? You deport them and get rid of them. It's therefore disappointing that Restore didn't stand. You would have thought that this would have been an opportunity but I suppose that was probably expeditious as well because they go, they put a hell of a lot of work up into Makefield and got three and a half thousand votes which is not, I mean, look, I'm not an electoral success particularly and I got a thousand votes in the last one I stood in. So it's to try and form a consensus. What do we think about gender? What are we thinking about what's being done to our schools? We were talking just before the interview started. What do we think is being done with the arts? What is being done with culture? It's sort of microcosmic of the fact that it's not a political solution to this problem. There's a new Culture forum solution to this problem which is you're giving people a home for people to watch. And there is an individual thing, you know, and a party based thing to be able to say, look, we have to have this conversation because if we don't come 2029, the Tories are going to be going that way. Reform are going to be going there. You know, hopefully you're doing very well and I'm doing exceptionally well. But we're going to need, there's going to need to be a consensus at some point.

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

Can I come in? There's an interesting point there because, you know, on, on immigration and illegal migration, there's a large overlap between us and Restore and reform and reform slightly in flux, changes a wee bit. But we're, we've pretty much had the hardest policy pretty much published for a long time. So I don't think there's. You can't out. I, I'm not attempting to out Nigel, Nigel in this election on that, but I really want to use this as an opportunity to try and open up some other things that are vitally important. I mentioned in my stump speech in Clacton on Saturday, water. You know, I think, and we've said it for years, that, you know, we view the country as our home, not a shop or a charity. And I think the, you know, the Labour Party and the Progressives think this is some sort of charity, think it's an ngo. That's what, that's how they operate. And a lot of them are ex charity people. Nothing wrong with charity, but that's how they think. Now the Tories, for too long and right way economics has just viewed the country as a shop, everything's for sale. And when Clactonians turn on their tap, earn the water and they pay the water bill, their money is siphoned off to German multinationals and Gulf states that own parts of Anglia Water. And I'm just saying, I think that's wrong. I want these assets, these national assets owned by us. I think we're perfectly able to own them and run them without that being siphoned off abroad. And so that's one of the points of difference, I think with us in reform, we just take a different view. We also take a different view on international trade and industry. We've deindustrialized, it's weakened us. You can't do that. You've got to in the end protect. I think Trump and Vance are right about protectionism. I think Trump is implementing it wrong. I've done lots of interviews, spectator and otherwise. I'm about the only politician that defends protectionism. But I think there is a role for it. Intelligently applied trade, tariffs and quotas do protect your industry and we've got to do it. So those are the things that, if you're a thoughtful voter in Clacton, where Do you put your vote. You. If you vote for the stp, you vote for a party that's totally committed to that type of protection for the country's industry. And it is a point of difference.

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

And what are the points of difference between reclaim and reform?

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

Well, the thing about reclaim, let's be honest about it, is when I started reclaim, straight away, we got completely banked and destroyed, and we spent all that time fighting that and so much money. So it's basically reclaim. It's a political party that exists so that I can stand an election when I want to stand in it. So I'm not coming in with anything other than to say we've had 12,183 people arrested in this country for social media violations for expressing opinions, which is more than double the number that we have in that great sanctuary of democracy. Belarus and China comes in fourth behind there. So you have a free speech crisis in the country. We've had a senior political figure assassinated in the last month, and then people are walking around t shirts talking about murdering people. So I'm saying your free speech is. Is the most important thing. So there's not really something you can vote for. You can't vote for free speech because what are you going to do?

[Commercial Announcer]

What.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

What am I going to say? I'll go into parliament and I will implement Preston burns free speech act, which actually someone should do. But you. You really. It's to hold Nigel to account because Nigel's sort of broad blairite in so many ways. You know, he just doesn't really. He cares more about getting into power than he does about. So I want to go. All right, Nigel, what do you think about this? What do you think about that? From this position of saying if you don't like Nigel, but you do agree with us, seeing as no one else is standing, you do agree with my brand of far right, hard right extremism, then vote for me. Just say to him that you don't

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

like it and what opportunities are you going to have to meet with Nigel?

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

And when he's open, We've done the obvious thing, which anyone would have done, which is a challenge, made the declaration. I was actually in Melbourne at the time, but when we filmed it, I challenged Nigel to a debate about the future of the country. And. And he hasn't taken me up.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

He's not a details man. Nigel,

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

no hustings.

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

No, No, I didn't. Well, I think there's a practical problem with hustings anyway. With 34 candidates, what do they do how do they. So that's an issue. But to Lawrence point, Lawrence's point. I think there is an issue with, with, with points of difference. I think, you know, I've mentioned industry one of the other things and you know we are Rod little jokes that you've got no votes so you've got nothing to lose the sdp, you just tell the truth and I try and tell the truth on things and one of the things is just the incoming fiscal bankruptcy. It's not that, it's not that we've got 95% debt to GDP which is a problem actually. Households and an industry isn't too bad. The government debt is getting out of control rapidly. It's not that we're there, it's the speed that has taken over a few years. We've just suddenly go. And I, I want the country to wake up and I, I can understand, I totally understand reform being cautious on things like the triple lock. But it's unaffordable. It's unaffordable. I say this, you know, the Clacton population is quite elderly. I'm just going to say if you want someone who is not serious about the, the country's ability to pay this, vote for someone else because I'm not going to tell the, I'm not going to, you know, tell lies about it. It can't be afforded.

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

There is 800 increase in 20 years

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

but an entitlement spending is out of control anyway. Look at government. I mean you a view on this, Lawrence. The government is spending billions of pounds giving 20 people in their 20s, you know, the, the right to stay at home and do nothing. That's wrong. We can't have that.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

Well, it's terrible. It's, it's so bad for a lot of things. What's going on for young people is appalling. I've been going through that with schools and all of this stuff in my life. I, I do think that William is a serious politician. Right. I am an instinctive X actor, let's be honest about it. And I can see when things go wrong it is important for Nigel, a man who is basically, as you say, his party. And without him it wouldn't be this case. He's leading the polls in this country. It is important for him to have some William Clouston style policies. Do you know what I mean? Rather than. I'm not them, you know, I'm not that lot because I don't want my country to be led by an. I'm not that lot. Whilst I totally Appreciate that. We were in a dire, dire strait the last time we went. We're not that lot. We got Kirstama.

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

Yes, although. And reform's not here to defend itself. And they do have a good policy unit. They've hired people like James Orr and they have a clear attempt to try to professionalize and come out because they realize that Restore is what I hear them, one of their weak spots. Restore also Harrison Pitt and others.

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

Doing a lot of policies for them too. But how is success going to be measured by Reclaim and SDP for major parties? It's how many votes do we get? But what is. Is it increasing your profile? Is it getting these arguments about bankruptcy, about water? How will you measure success after August 13th?

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

I think, sorry, I should let you speak voluminously, but I think success is strangely for someone who's standing in elections. Success is the people of Clacton giving a resounding mandate. I got a text message from a very, very senior Tory a few days when I was saying they were trying to talk about something else and I said to them, I think it's appalling that you don't stand. And that's dreadful. And they went, he's going to prison anyway. Doesn't matter. So. And that's. So I'm like, you need ultimately listen, parliamentary rules, parliamentary rules, I get it. But Nigel has said this £5 million that he's received. Whatever you think about it, he's spending on security. We know that Nigel needs full time security. So I think the public are probably fairly sympathetic to the idea of someone having to spend a lot of money on security so they don't get beaten over the head 21 times the hammer. So I think that belittles the major parties as much as possible. They're all off on their socialist holidays. If he doesn't get a resounding, resounding mandate, then he's going to be weaker when it comes to the by election, which comes after. But at the same time, I think it's really important that someone like William and someone like me I hold into account over free speech. What do you think over free speech, Nigel, what do you think about these arrests that are happening? That Britain's turning into communist China before our eyes and it's right that William turns around to him and says, well, what do you think about these serious policies?

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

Yeah, I think it's a mistake. I mean, they, they. I think the attitude of the major parties to reform is, yeah, it's very disrespectful and it's it's, it's disrespectful to the voters, but it's also a pretense. They think if they just ignore reform, it'll go. It's not going away. The reasons, I mean, my, my broad picture on it. I mean, I've said before, I, I, broadly, if, if reform changed the system and changed politics in this country, I'm in favor. That's why. And like a little alliance at the last election where our economics is different, broadly, their diagnosis of the problem of the country is correct. I think some of the solutions they apply aren't quite ready yet. But the answer is not to boycott an election. If you're. The Tories in labor, take them on. You can't pretend that Nigel's going to go away.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

They can't take him on because they, because they know that whatever your views on Nigel. I have very strong views on Nigel, but I have much stronger views about my country. Much stronger views about my country. So I am I desperate to see my, to see our country thrive. And if Nigel, if they do what they're doing, which is the death by a thousand cuts which have been going on for 20 years more than with him, and we allow that to stand to the point where they don't even have to turn up to elections, then you aren't in a democratic country. You're not giving the demos, the 31,250 odd people who voted Conservative in 2019. You're not giving them anything to do. These people pay subs. These people go on canvas. These people represent. These people volunteer. They do things for their community and for Kenny Badenock and for the, you know, the sort of cartoon show that is Andy, to just go, no, he doesn't exist. That's dangerous, isn't it? I mean, it seems dangerous to me because if you go to Clacton, you speak to people at Clacton, which I do because it's around the corner. Those people are pretty fed up. They are fed up and there's a lot of fed up people in every part of this country who are just sat there going, so hang on a minute. My life is terrible and I'm a racist. It's like people get fed up of it and at some point that bubble pops. And for them, whether William or I like it or not, Nigel is the conduit for them to see a change.

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

So you are quite close to Clacton. You've been to Clacton a few times now. So what is your messaging to voters on the doorstep when you greet them, how are you selling yourselves? What is the position you're taking?

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

One of the first things I always do is listen, actually, because I'm from Northumberland, you know, and I live in Coarbridge, not Clacton, is just to listen. What the. It's funny what comes out, actually. What comes out very strongly. So it's a wonderful constituency. Beautiful constituency and public realm always comes out. People really care. You go into a town or village and is it loved, is it kept? Is it nicely looked after? And that comes out when I speak to voters. That's what people are saying. And actually it's very close to my heart. It's the one thing that we can really look after. Government often can't solve your problems or your mental health problems and your economic problems quite often, but it can look after the public realm, our towns and cities and villages, beautifully. And that's the one thing that came out, actually.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

It is a crime, if you think about Britain's coastal towns, certainly up there. I spent time in Great Yarmouth and I've spent time in Clacton and Frinton and all the others, actually. And it's a crime how much we ignore them. You can close your eyes, go back 100 years and see the most thriving, most wonderful communities. And you would have thought, in this sort of gentrified world that we live in, where people want to spend 45 quid on a latte, that you could have these places right there on these beautiful, stunning beaches with these great cultural heritage where slapstick and all of the great stuff came from. But for some reason, we've just gone nah. And I think it's probably the, you know, the white saviors who like going on holiday to other places that have destroyed our coastal heritage. And it's disgusting. You go to architecture.

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

The package holiday was the beginning of the end, was the death knell originally. But then. Yeah, like places like Margate, you can see what happens if the energy is there to try to revive.

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

It is an area just. I went to school in Scarborough at Scarborough College, and for, you know, five years of my life, life that I'd repeat in eternity. This is so, so phenomenal. Southcliffe in Scarborough is world class. This is world class spa architecture. It's beautiful. Absolutely incredible.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

Well, who's. There's a wonderful playwright and I can't. Yes. Alan Akbourn. You need what these places need. And, you know, this is the new thing that I'm doing, new project I'm doing. Other than standing against Nigel for whatever reason, I'm doing that for. But you've got to inject back into these places a sense of this is wonderful. You are wonderful. Be grateful for all of the great things that God gave you, let alone the government, and resist the uni party who can't even be bothered to get in a car or on a train and come, you know, an hour out of London to proffer you your money

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

back and to argue that point.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

And that's what needs to happen. So we should do that. We should actually, we should double challenge Nigel and say to him, let's sit down. I want to know what you want to do about free speech and you can do all the serious grownup stuff about money.

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

Well, I'm in printing on Saturday, so I don't know, should we change it? Yeah, I'll be there.

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

So the decline of the coastal towns is one of the great tragedies of Britain. And of course in Clacton you've got Jwick, which is the most deprived area in the entire country. And of course tied in with that, of course, is the, the plight of the white working class. We know white working class boys now also white working class girls are the most disadvantaged, growing up with the least opportunities. So, for example, for the sdp, what would your plan be for coastal towns to revive and rejuvenate?

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

Well, you've got to invest in them and, and you've got to, you've got to look after them and, and it's, it's caring really that that counts.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

Given back.

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

Yeah. I mean, with this whole, I mean, in town centers, one of the, one of the issues with coastal towns, funnily enough, is that half of it is the sea, so you don't have a proper hinterland. There's a reason why some of the town centers and on the coast actually struggle for that reason. But no, all the infrastructure's there. If only we revive it and care about it and look after it.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

Also you just, I mean, get a bit of money there. Sorry, we've just had the hottest. They've told us that, you know, it's the hot. Now that we've cleaned up the pollution, we're all hotter thanks to the Telegraph. And I'm like, well, great, so you don't need to hop on Ryanair from Stansted down to, you know, someone else and give them your money. If you filled, for example, here's my thought, and I could be talking absolute rubbish. If you filled a theater up in Great Yarmouth or in Frinton or anywhere in Clacton, you filled a theater up with Some people and you put in front of them an interesting a talk from politician and a concert, a play. And you got people just talking about that and spending a bit of money on a bit of food. And you didn't make it West End prices to watch Mamma mia for the 300th different cars. You would start to generate a cultural conversation about what it is to be British and what is great about what our country is, rather than just this sort of globalized fudge of rubbish that we've churned out on Netflix. And in all this stuff we have, we have the greatest playwrights in history have lived in this country country and were born and raised in this country. And the people of this country deserve to be able to see that.

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

I forgot one thing that I should have mentioned, Rafe, which is on the industrial side. A vital foundation of reviving our coastal towns is just get our waters back, for goodness sake. Every single government assigned these waters off to the European Union, to the Spanish and the French to fish and come on. And they did it again. They had the opportunity every single time we're out of the European, we can get these waters back. Are you saying we can't fish our own waters and process our own marine and right from, you know, from Essex up to Fraserbury, you could revive these towns. Grimsby.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

How do you raise, how do you raise a child? Unless you've got a history in that town, Unless you've got a trawlerman in that town who's gone out and has the right to freed his own family and his own community. You just left going into ASDA and just buying things. And it's not the way that this country, you know, the left calls embassy for devolution. Endassy's gotta be devolved. We've got to have our devolution. Why doesn't the right call for some devolution or localism? You know, why doesn't that happen? Because we're stifled and we're stopped and we're told to be ashamed of being proud of who we are. And that starts in places like Clacton and it starts all over the country where people are just like, are you scum? You're the. You gammon scum. Get on the coast. And it's just.

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

And of course the reality is there is so much snobbery towards the white working class people living in these coastal towns and communities. They're deemed to be racist. Whereas the reality is, of course they're the ones living with the dark side of diversity. Every day they're at the coal face, living cheek by jowl with illegal migrants and so forth. And this is one of the reasons I was in Great Yarmouth recently and I was shocked to see the number of these gangs of young men hanging around on all the corners there. You said that the SDP obviously has the strongest immigration policies of any political party. So can you for our viewers, lay out what your immigration policies are and why they're more strident and in what ways they're different to the other parties?

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

Well, if you take the illegals first, I mean, any illegal arrival, unsolicited arrival, would be transported immediately to Ascension and held under administrative detention and then deported back to where they came from or a third country. But they're not staying here and none of them would be able to stay here. The bigger problem in terms of numbers is our painful addiction to mass immigration, generally on the labor market. That's lots of causes. One of the causes is the contempt for the idea of planning, labor market planning. No health secretary in the last 30 years has bothered to train enough clinicians and nurses and doctors for their NHS needs. So we just do the short term thing. We'll have a Nigerian nurse or a Ghanaian nurse or a Filipino nurse and just have them. But meanwhile, millions of young British people aren't given roots into that, that industry. And that, that, that, that is wrong. So it, you can't, I mean, we say and end mass immigration is harmful economically, it's harmful culturally. Another thing that we developed earlier on this year is take it a stage further, is to apply visa bans, total visa bans, travel bans, to countries that have immigrants, that have disproportionate criminality, welfare dependence and economic inactivity. And that's empirical. You can measure it, you can produce figures. It is evidently not in the interest of the country to import millions of people in those categories. And we won't.

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

And the great irony is the people we're importing, most of, are from Somalia,

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

Sudan and the very countries that are

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

the most damaging to us.

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

The proportionality in crime is off the scale and the left, the cultural left, the progressive left, are hiding it. The Labour government's done this and they just can't face reality. I'd like policy to be reality based.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

It's very difficult to try. One of the great things that's come out of the madness that we're in at the moment is people can see the left for what they are, are now. So it's not. They are Jacobins and it's revolutionary madness. It's Very difficult to negotiate with someone who, you know, you'll have a massacre at a Christmas market, or not a Christmas market, a, you know, a pride parade.

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

Yeah.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

And then at the next pride parade, they're walking around with Paliwali flags.

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

Demented.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

Yeah. And so you. It's very difficult to negotiate with those. I do think that the other thing Nigel needs to do, actually, and this is important, is we do need to have a conversation about Islam and we also need to have a conversation about the sort of Islam Islam that we have in Britain. You know, that sort of Mipuri Islam that we have in Britain. And the fact that a lot of people in public office in our country are followers of Islam, because, you know, just if you're talking to Clacton people or someone in my local pub, it really matters to them that the person who represents him cares about them, that their history, their father, their thing. And when you've got the Home Secretary of the United Kingdom, who's now been renowned, put into position, certainly saying, I'm a Muslim, and that's the most important thing to me in my whole life, I'm like, but I don't want you in office. And I don't think you should stand in office. So. So these are the things I want Nigel to say. Do you. Do you think it's difficult? You know, you want to get into really tricky questions about freedom of religion. You want to get into all of that sort of stuff in this country at the moment. Because we have three years and we're heading towards demographic. Total demographic collapse within 20 years.

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

And it's interesting that polling shows that we have a much more acute problem here than even France or Germany. So 82 of Muslims in this country identify as being Muslim first and British second. In Germany, it's only 60% who say that they're Muslim first. In France, it's only 40%, which is fascinating. You think of France having more terror attacks, but they're a secular society.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

But it's also about time, isn't it? You look at, I have a friend, a bishop, a Nigerian bishop. Islam and Christianity have been bumping up against each other across the north and south of that country for a very long time. So as much as horrors happen, there is a. There's an innate balance in government and in other places in Britain, this experiment that has been taken out on the British public is as damaging as Covid was. It's not thought out. It assumes this sort of globalist idea that we're all the same. We're not all the same. So what's going to happen is the people of Clacton are going to be told are going to be marginalized even more for the sake of diversity. And what does diversity bring us? It's not brought us any harmony that I can say.

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

So I want to. We haven't got that much time left. So obviously welfare is one of the reasons why our economy is in the condition that it's in. We're now paying more out in welfare payments than we're taking in income tax receipts. You lean left in the SDP on economics. What would you do with the welfare bill in terms of health benefits and so forth, disability benefits?

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

The 3. The 3. The broad picture on this is that until about 1979, public investment as a percentage of GDP was about 6% and welfare was about 6%. Now welfare's 1011 and rising. Public investments collapsed to 1.7. And when I mean public investment, I'm talking about reservoirs, houses, schools, roads, infrastructure. And that's what we energy, that's what we depend on. And that has been cannibalized now by welfare payments. And I'm sorry, you can't. The state is big, but it's inept. You can't go on like this. And we put out a paper, the Investment State. How to correct this, how to reinvigorate public investment. Sorry, but you can't do it without some pain. And the pain will evolve, some cuts to the big categories in real terms. You can't do it overnight. You don't want it overnight. But triple lock pensions is unaffordable. Housing benefit, 38 billion. We spend 8 billion billion homes, RAFE, and only 8 billion billion homes. And 38 billion subsidizing people paying rent. And then disability benefit again has gone off the scale. So you've got to taper those down gradually in a humane way and reinvest in country. It's tough, but it's true.

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

And unfortunately, in Clacton, of course, they have much higher levels of disability benefits than elsewhere in the country.

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

They do, but they also have. They do have high social trust and solidarity. And I think the level of. One of the things I've been very impressed with in the whole constituency is the level of community activism and community groups. And I think to some extent you can get through some of these things. But I don't want people to pretend that that unaffordable welfare is affordable. It isn't. What happens, what will happen if we don't address this and do it in a proper, targeted way? A tapered way is that you'll get a crisis. And what happened in Portugal in the troika euro crisis is that welfare payments to some households went down by a third overnight. Do you want that or do you want to rebalance it in a sensible way?

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

And don't make people. Don't demoralize people with, you know, a. The cultural stuff of, like, you're a racist and you do everything that's wrong with this country was your grandfather's fault. Because you know, who's going to be motivated to live a healthy lifestyle and do well and go out and succeed when they feel like they're hated by the entire country? It's subtle, that sort of stuff. Also, don't convince them that the Sun Monster is out to get them. And that's 20 billion quid a year straight away. Do you know what I mean? And I think we should go. There should be a national drive, a patriotic national drive. We get rid of this whole idea of multiple multicultural diversity because it doesn't work in our country. And we turn around and we say, if you stand up and you do a hard day's work, you will thrive and you will succeed. And that will take a large number of those people who are kind of on the fence going, morrissey did that. Great. Did you see Morrissey's line when he said I was unemployed because I didn't want a job?

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

Yes.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

And there is a bit of that going on. Of course, there are people in this world that are struggling to get employment and society needs to have a safety net to catch those people. But the overwhelming majority of people undemoralized, in a good mood, woken up feeling inspired, wanting to get out and want to, because it builds them up. It's a selfish desire to increase your own self esteem.

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

So our viewers watching this will be cheering to hear both of you saying such sound and patriotic and decent things, which, you know, belies the question, who should they vote for amongst the two of you? If it comes to a down to a choice, can you make your elevator pitch a minute or two saying why you deserve the vote of the people of Clacton?

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

Vote for William Clouston. He's really great.

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

Very kind, very kind. And we'd honestly, with history, I think not. Actually.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

I like him. William.

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

Rod Little, actually, in the general election, standing with the SDP could have saved a deposit. He missed out by 40 votes because he actually said, vote Labor. Anyway, the rest is history. Now we're trying to offer a serious alternative for the majority in Clacton who have no other serious party to vote for and that's my offer. Take a look at us and check it out.

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

Well, can you do that for us? Can you tell us what is the SDP in a minute or so.

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

It's the party in the patriotic state. We don't want a large state. We wanted a state that does the basics right. We want affordable energy energy and grid power done by the state. I want the water industry in state, in our public hands. I don't want it sold off to foreign entities. I want us to build some houses so we solve the housing crisis. I want to end mass immigration. I want to rebuild our industry because that's our future. And on the cultural side, we know what a woman is. We are patriotic people.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

I've got my one. My one is the reclaimed party is the party you hope you never have to vote for at some point. Genuinely, because my views, my views are far outstretched. Rupert's when it comes to the cultural stuff and Nigel. I mean, you've seen how critical I am of Nigel's dilly dallying over the deep, deep cultural issues. I think we're facing an existential crisis of our actual nation.

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

Well, the best of British luck to you both.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

Thank you.

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

I think it's a dereliction of duty for the main parties to treat the voters of Clacton with contempt and not offer them a choice. Few are offering them a choice. May whoever wins, win. But thank you very much for taking part in that contest and in today's discussion. See you next time.

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

Very kind, Rafe. Thanks.

[Lawrence Fox (Reclaim Party Leader)]

Thank you. Culture Forum. You need them too.

[William Clouston (SDP Leader)]

You do.

[Interviewer (Rafe)]

Thank you so much. That's all for this week and we'll see you next time.

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