Brandon Graham on Retirement, Rookie Jason Stories, Art of Trash Talking & The Brady Sack | EP 133

Summary

Podcast Title: New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Episode: Brandon Graham on Retirement, Rookie Jason Stories, Art of Trash Talking & The Brady Sack | EP 133
Release Date: April 9, 2025
Host: Wondery
Guests: Brandon Graham

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Introduction

In Episode 133 of New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce, hosts Jason and Travis Kelce welcome Philadelphia Eagles legend Brandon Graham to discuss his illustrious NFL career, recent retirement, the nuances of trash talking in football, and memorable moments on the field. The episode offers listeners an in-depth look into Graham's experiences, both on and off the gridiron, providing valuable insights into the life of a seasoned NFL veteran.

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Career Highlights and Retirement

Brandon Graham reflects on the emotional journey leading up to his retirement, sharing heartfelt moments and the impact it had on him and his family.

• Emotional Announcement:
  Brandon Graham (07:03): "When I walked in, he like, bg, this is such a fairy tale ending, man. I can't let you. I can't let you, man, like, you gotta go out on top."

• Decision to Retire:
  Graham discusses the internal struggle of deciding to retire, emphasizing the relieving feeling of finally stepping away after a demanding career.

• Memorable Plays:
  The conversation highlights Graham's pivotal role in games, notably his unforgettable sack on Tom Brady, which he describes as a life-changing moment.

  Brandon Graham (74:14): "2017. Because of that play against Brady, man, like I told you, it changed my life."

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Life After Retirement: Family and New Ventures

Post-retirement, Brandon focuses on family life and new personal projects, illustrating the transition from professional sports to personal fulfillment.

• Family Life:
  Graham shares anecdotes about his children's activities, showcasing his dedication as a father.

  Brandon Graham (05:44): "Gymnastics is. Is the queen for her life... my boy is all over. He got baseball just started opening day yesterday."

• Children's Book:
  Transitioning from football, Graham has authored a children's book to inspire and add value to his children's lives.

  Brandon Graham (17:21): "I really wanted # to do something different. Something that came up and my wife was all for it."

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The Art of Trash Talking

A significant portion of the episode delves into the strategic and psychological aspects of trash talking in the NFL, with Graham sharing his evolution and approach.

• Evolution of Trash Talking:
  Initially a quiet leader, Graham evolved into a prominent trash talker, using it as a tool to gain psychological edges over opponents.

  Brandon Graham (46:50): "It became more animated, more fun. Always try not to cuss because I felt like the refs throw the flag."

• Techniques and Strategies:
  Graham explains how he researches opponents via social media to craft personalized taunts, enhancing his on-field persona.

  Brandon Graham (50:21): "I follow your page, see what you got, see what you're into... find anything you want."

• Impact on Games:
  The hosts discuss how effective trash talking can agitate opponents, leading to mistakes and turnovers.

  Travis Kelce (05:30): "It's always fun seeing you on the field, man."

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Memorable On-Field Moments and Rivalries

Graham recounts specific game moments and rivalries that defined his career, providing listeners with firsthand accounts of high-stakes NFL action.

• Sacking Tom Brady:
  The iconic sack on Brady stands out as a career-defining play for Graham.

  Brandon Graham (74:14): "That play against Brady... I still think about that. It changed my life."

• Rivalries with Offensive Linemen:
  Graham discusses his toughest opponents, highlighting the physical and mental challenges they posed.

  Brandon Graham (70:14): "Taron Smith... he used to swipe my hands down. I would fall to the ground."

• First NFL Moment:
  Reflecting on his debut, Graham shares a vivid memory of his first intense hit that cemented his defensive prowess.

  Brandon Graham (72:18): "Mike Daniels gave me that welcome to the NFL moment."

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Advice and Rapid Fire Q&A

In the episode's concluding segments, Graham offers advice to aspiring athletes and engages in a rapid-fire Q&A, revealing personal preferences and humorous insights.

• Advice for Aspiring Golfers:
  Although not a golfer himself, Graham emphasizes the importance of practice and dedicated training.

  Travis Kelce (79:04): "Boom, pick up a stick and go hit that thing... watch some get on that Instagram, type in golf."

• Favorite Super Bowl:
  Graham nostalgically recalls his favorite Super Bowl moment, underscoring its significance in his career.

  Brandon Graham (74:14): "2017. Because that play against Brady... my first championship ring."

• Favorite Memories:
  Sharing lighter moments, Graham reminisces about training camp antics and the camaraderie among teammates.

  Jason Kelce (45:32): "It was a great game for us. So everybody was playing good."

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Conclusion

Episode 133 of New Heights provides a comprehensive look into Brandon Graham's illustrious career, his thoughtful retirement, and the personal growth he has experienced post-NFL. Through engaging storytelling and candid conversations, listeners gain valuable insights into the mindset of a professional athlete, the intricacies of NFL rivalries, and the balance between personal and professional life. The episode not only celebrates Graham's achievements but also inspires future generations to pursue their passions with dedication and resilience.

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Notable Quotes

• Brandon Graham (07:16): "It was a fairy tale ending... you gotta go out on top."
• Brandon Graham (17:21): "I wanted to add value to the world... something that my kids can look back on."
• Brandon Graham (46:50): "He made us laugh and made us think."
• Jason Kelce (45:03): "I gotta find this clip."
• Brandon Graham (74:14): "That play against Brady... it changed my life."

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Key Takeaways

• Emotional Journey of Retirement: Graham's decision to retire was heartfelt, focusing on personal well-being and family.
• Strategic Trash Talking: Effective trash talking involves preparation, research, and psychological tactics to gain an edge.
• Memorable NFL Moments: Iconic plays and rivalries shape an athlete's legacy and career highlights.
• Life Beyond Football: Transitioning to post-retirement life includes family, personal projects, and new ventures that provide fulfillment.
• Advice for Aspiring Athletes: Dedication, practice, and strategic preparation are crucial for success both on and off the field.

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For more insights and engaging discussions, subscribe to New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce on the Wondery App, YouTube, or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

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[Brandon Graham]

That was the lowest of lows last year when we lost and then Kelce.

[Jason Kelsey]

Retired and everything got better.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah, it was crazy. I know. Kels.

[Travis Kelsey]

Welcome back to new heights. Ladies and gentlemen. You're the one show produced by Wave Sports and Entertainment and brought to you by HBO's the Last of Us. Season 2 premieres Sunday, 9pm on Max.

[Jason Kelsey]

How about that?

[Travis Kelsey]

Anybody been anybody watching White Lotus?

[Jason Kelsey]

Season finale was last night. Trev.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh my God. I think I'm two. I think I'm two or three episodes behind season finale. I'm not gonna tell me. Okay, don't do it.

[Jason Kelsey]

I think it's my favorite. That's tough. All the seasons of White Lotus have been great. This might be my favorite season. The last episode was Electric.

[Travis Kelsey]

Electric. Love the sound of that. Because every other episode's kind of been just like waiting. I'm waiting.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, there's a lot that happens this episode. There is a lot that happens. I don't. It might have been. I don't know that I'm. It's very good. It's very good. I don't even want to say anything negative about the show because show is fantastic.

[Travis Kelsey]

Zip it. Well, I'm glad you're enjoying White Lotus and I can't wait to watch it. But season two of the Last of Us premieres on HBO Sunday, 9pm on Max. We're your hosts. I'm Travis Kelsey is my big brother Jason Kelsey out of Cleveland Heights, Ohio. Cincinnati Bearcat alum. Shout out to first of all, shout out to all the Bearcats down in the NFL Penns golf outing that brought it home for the cats.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh yeah, Sauce.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's right. That's right, Sauce. Well then I don't know. Sauce is getting his swing right. I don't know if he was the reason why we won.

[Jason Kelsey]

He wasn't carrying it.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, my guy, Sauce. He brought it home, though. He brought it home. That's all that counts, man. No, the Bearcats brought it home. And make sure you guys the 92 percenter subscribe on YouTube, wonder plus wherever you get your podcast and follow the show on all social media pages at New Heights show with one s Jason Let the people know what we have coming up.

[Jason Kelsey]

We got a great episode coming up for you guys. We got an incredible episode with Brandon Graham joining us today. That's right. That's right. We also are going to reveal the winners of the new Heights March Madness bracket challenge and answer some of your NOAM questions.

[Brandon Graham]

All right.

[Jason Kelsey]

Now, as opposed to what we normally do, we're going to get right into it. We're going right to BG.

[Travis Kelsey]

Let's get it.

[Jason Kelsey]

Philadelphia Eagles legend and icon.

[Travis Kelsey]

5 5.

[Jason Kelsey]

Best smile I've ever been around. I mean, it's, it's insane. You're going to see. You'll see. Our guest today is a first round draft pick from Detroit, Michigan. He's a Walter Payton, NFL man of the year nominee, prolific trash talker, Pro bowler, the record holder for most games played in Philadelphia Eagles history. That's right. He is two time Super bowl champion and my former teammate, 92 Percenter. Please welcome Brandon Gr.

[Travis Kelsey]

Baby. Appreciate you coming on, dog.

[Brandon Graham]

I appreciate y'all having me for real. This is an honor, man. I appreciate it.

[Jason Kelsey]

Honor is all ours, bg. How you doing? How you living?

[Brandon Graham]

You know what? I'm living good in the, in the facility. Every day. Working out. I know. Getting each other, getting, getting that, that rehab and figuring out next steps for real.

[Travis Kelsey]

Nice, man. So you, you retort in the game, in the, in the super bowl, man, you're, you're an absolute warrior Dog, for going back out there and finding a way to make it on that field. And, and congrats again. I know we talked after the game, but I can't say enough about how fun it is to play against you because I respect you so much and how much. How much trash talk you. You're always one of the best competitors and you back up your shit talking. And it was always fun seeing you on the field, man. So congrats on a great career, brother.

[Brandon Graham]

Man, thank you, man. It's definitely going to be different, but I'm excited for what's to come because, as you know, I could figure out a way to trash talk in this. In this, in this, in this area.

[Travis Kelsey]

This day and age.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Keep that time for the kids. By the way, how the kids doing, man?

[Brandon Graham]

You know what? Baby girl's doing good. Gymnastics is. Is the queen for her life. And. And right now, baby boy is all over. He got baseball just started opening day yesterday. That's what I'm talking. Yeah, yeah, it's cool. And he love it. You know, he love. He got some lacrosse. He's playing with second graders now. He's in kindergarten. But. But he don't like lacrosse. But he. He is really good at it. But he just don't like. He just. I love that I know what he do and don't like, but you never know. It changes. But to see him, even though I didn't grow up on lacrosse, seeing how it's played, the rules and stuff like that, it's kind of cool to see him do his thing. And then, of course, flag football is one that he like because he's been around football.

[Travis Kelsey]

Nice, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

Before we get to the rest of this interview with bg, as we start every show off, everybody who watches knows all United Trooper centers out there. We got to get to a little bit of that new news.

[Travis Kelsey]

New news, bg. Give us a little. Give us a little new news, bg.

[Brandon Graham]

New news. There we go.

[Jason Kelsey]

There we go.

[Travis Kelsey]

He's a pro. You can put them anywhere, man. That's great stuff.

[Jason Kelsey]

You had a really emotional day a couple weeks ago, right, where you officially announced your retirement. I know you said it before the season. You led up to the season knowing it was going to be your last year. And I've talked about this. I mean, I feel like even midway through the year, we would talk. I'm like, man, you're still. You're still balling. How did the family react to that? How was that day?

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, so.

[Brandon Graham]

So my wife, she used to get. Get on me. Like, hey, make sure you write down little bullet points for that day when they do come. Events this year or next year, whatever year. But just make sure you just writing down things, something that. So you can remember on who. Who's been a real big impact in your life and all this stuff. So I had notes that I was just writing. Yeah, yeah, it helped. And, man, it hit me, though. Like, how I hit you probably. Man, it just. When I seen everybody looking back at me and I knew this was the moment where it was over, it's like, whoo. Been doing this a long times and.

[Travis Kelsey]

Giving me chills just thinking about it.

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, man, you put all this work in for these amount of years, and, man, it's like, even from Little League all the way up to now, it's like, man, this all I know. Every off season, it's like, man, I gotta get ready. I gotta get my body right, get it right. And now it's more of. Now I'm trying to get it right to look good instead of. That's my new motivation. I wanna look good. I wanna be on the beach where I could take my shirt off, you know, Hairy and all. Hairy and all, but looking ripped up.

[Travis Kelsey]

They don't wanna see these.

[Brandon Graham]

They don't wan.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's awesome.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, you killed the speech. And not only that, you killed the lead up to the speech. You had the social media, you got everybody kind of mouth watering with the Rocky Balboa statue over by the Rocky. The history museum steps or art history museum steps.

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

You already know.

[Brandon Graham]

That was so cool. That was. I wanted to do something so Philly, man, that was. That was it. That was a Philly thing where I was like, man, where can I hang my cleats up somewhere in Philly? And I was like, ooh, the statue, Rocky steps.

[Travis Kelsey]

You know it for sure.

[Brandon Graham]

And, man, they. They did it. They did it for me. The Eagles brought the team down. We met out early that morning, 8 o'clock, and be like, hey, we got an announcement at 12. And it just worked out so good, man. And that's how I know this was the right. It was the right choice. Cause of course, I called Howie, like, hey, I could still cancel this thing, man. What's up?

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Brandon Graham]

For real.

[Jason Kelsey]

Hey, well, that is. That is something I definitely wanted to ask you because if. I know you said before the season it was going to be your last year, but you were playing so well.

[Brandon Graham]

Yes.

[Jason Kelsey]

Right. And, like, you're still. You could still play the game. Did you second guess this at all like, how I know, I know before the season, said it's gonna be your last, but what was it like leading up to this decision? Were there moments where you're like, man, I think I might want to give it another run? Or were you like, nah, I'm done.

[Brandon Graham]

I'm gonna be totally honest with you. I wanted to give it another run. Cause I got hurt. And I was like, man, I gotta. I got a whole bunch left that I can still do. And I was gonna really have been the real last year for sure if he would have kind of granted that. But he was like, man, it's such a storybook ending. And, man, that's what I said in my prayer when I walked in. I prayed before I had went in the day before. I was like, okay, Lord, I'mma just. I'm. I'm. I'mma le. You just leave me on this. And when I walked in, I was like, I'm going to put it in his hands if. If. How we. If we. If we don't come to a conclusion that we can do it again. All right, I'm. I even going to fight it. So when I walk in, he like, bg, like, what you want to do? I say, man, what you want me to do?

[Jason Kelsey]

Because, you know, right back at him.

[Brandon Graham]

You know my heart. He was like, bg, this is such a fairy tale ending, man. I can't let you. I can't let you, man. Like, you gotta go out on top. And when he said fairy tale, I was like, all right, Lord, I'm done. I'm done. I. I didn't even fight it after that. And so I just felt like a weight was lifted off my shoulder when it happened. And I was like, okay, I don't have to fight. Fight no more. I ain't got to fight no more. Because, man, I had this chip on my shoulder for so long on, like, just people like what you said, man, like, I'm a bus and all that stuff. I carry that every year as motivation to go out there and make sure I'm working. But my family for sure, was, you know, my biggest motivation. But that was one that I always was like, man, how we never want to get rid of me? And you kind of play that game in your head, and that's why you train hard and you go hard and make them sacrifices that, you know, that's hard to make, like eating food and all that stuff because you want to look good. All that.

[Jason Kelsey]

No doubt.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'll tell you what, man, 15 seasons, 218 games, bro. You shut all those two time Super bowl champions, you shut all those fucking doubters up or anybody that had anything to say, man, what made you love fit. But you got to tell your Detroit guys from that blue collar that that tough area, what was it about Philly that year in, year out made you stick around? Because it was always, I mean, it was an up and down roller coaster for you. See, year in year crowd, you've had multiple different coaches pull through. Like, what was it about the city and about this organization that really made you want to be there as an Eagle your entire career?

[Brandon Graham]

Well, stripping that, stripping that ball on Brady, man, that, that helped me out a lot. I didn't like in Philly at first, man. I'm telling you, like Philly fans was so tough, man. And it just wasn't. It just, it just wasn't everything I wanted it to be. But like you say, coming from Detroit, being a fighter, not knowing that, hey, this your first real adversity is like, how you gonna fight back? And so I think for me, having like guys like Trent and having guys like JP in my head like, hey man, like, if Chip Kelly wants you to play special teams, go play special teams. Be the best at it, man. Like, no sense of crying about it. Because I used to be like, man, I ain't never played special teams when Coach Reed was here and now I gotta do this play all four. And it was an opportunity. And so I even still use that story today for the guys because, man, once I really had my mindset of, man, I'm gonna do it, it turned into something that I didn't even know that it would turn into where I'm on kickoff and them boys putting two or three on me because I'm running through the wedge. And whoever was the one that I ran through, they needed two people. And so it became that like, you know, and man, it was all mindset with that. And then I think it took. Took my career to another level because I had some adversity that I went through. I conquered that by my attitude. And then look, look what happened, man. Now they, after games, like, bg, man, our special teams coach was like, man, you need to block. We need to go ahead to block 55 on kickoff because he coming down running through, you know, you better get your. You better get your chin strap buckled up. You know what I'm saying? Put your mouthpiece in.

[Travis Kelsey]

So I was about to say, you're an Eagle. You're an Eagle favorite for, for a lifetime now, man. You gave them Happiness that they never experienced in their life twice. And you even threw out the first pitch of Saquon the other day. Did you practice before you went up there? Were you throwing the ball around a little bit?

[Brandon Graham]

They didn't let us. I had. Did one in Michigan, in Detroit. My only. Only one I did before. I actually did that one last week. And man, nah, they didn't let us go in the dugout and throw. We just had to. And I had the trophy in my hand and I had to throw it. So it. It made it even. Like, man, we want somebody. We want to get the pick for the trophy. And bg, you got to hold it. Because Saquon was like, nah, I ain't holding it. I'm. You hold it. Cuz. He was more worried about getting the ball over the plate. So I was like, all right. But no, I didn't. I just. I just kept it high. Just kept it high.

[Travis Kelsey]

There you go.

[Brandon Graham]

And then floated it in there. Floated it in there.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah. That's what I should have did. I decided to try and throw a heater.

[Jason Kelsey]

You see Travis's up there From.

[Travis Kelsey]

From the mound. No. You know, nobody should ever see that. They should just delete that from. From the mound like an idiot. Yeah. Without. With. With. With no practice. When I tell you I haven't. I haven't thrown anything since my pick in 2015 to the new York Giants. I had, like. I was. I just. I spiked it right in the ground, man. It was terrible.

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, man, they laughed at you forever.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah. I got my redemption on KC a few weeks after that.

[Brandon Graham]

Okay.

[Travis Kelsey]

I got. I got a chance to go back in Casey, so I did it. I did it right in Casey. But in front of the hometown, I felt like a jamote.

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, and. Oh, yeah, I know. That was. That was Cleveland.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah. That's the bad.

[Jason Kelsey]

Brandon. You're only the second defensive player we've had on the show, actually. Second defensive lineman, too.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah. You and Chris Jones, as someone who.

[Jason Kelsey]

Has defended quarterback sneaks, what is your opinion on the banning of the tush push?

[Brandon Graham]

Potentially, I think it's kind of. I don't want to say soft, but it is. Because, man, ain't no way. It's. Ain't no way. Ain't no way. I will show my hand and say, man, they need to stop this, because we can't stop it.

[Travis Kelsey]

It.

[Brandon Graham]

It's like, no, because if everybody could do it, as we know, you got to have a personnel for it first. Then you got to work the technique in practice and, like, we do. We just got a good thing that we got going. And it's like, stop it, man. Ain't nobody got hurt on it. If anything, you know, you come out from under the. Under the huddle like, oh, man, I gotta. I gotta get ready for the next one. But that's football, though. That's what we do. I mean, it's big grown men up front that you gotta push. And if I'm not strong enough, it won't happen. But. But we got a strong goal line. And I'm sorry, it's a little soft, in my opinion, but it gotta get voted. And I hate that we hear, you know, something that, that. That we created, but people don't like. Cause they don't want to see it. Cause they can't stop it.

[Travis Kelsey]

Let me ask you this. If you could ban one NFL offensive play outside of the tush push, what would you ban?

[Brandon Graham]

Ooh, one play outside of the crack toss. Get that up out of there. Ooh, like I told them boys, hit me in my face, boy. Hit me in.

[Travis Kelsey]

You know, I'm flanking, I'm sneak attacking the whole time.

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, yeah, I know. If that's the one. You just made me think about it because, you know, you the one that come right on the side. It's like, boy, how you gonna get me like that?

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, sneaky. It's a. You gotta sneak attack.

[Jason Kelsey]

You, man, you are doing something about children's books in the last video. That's right.

[Travis Kelsey]

Vg, this is awesome, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

The children's book, baby. Look at this. BG's ABCs, man.

[Travis Kelsey]

This is awesome, man.

[Brandon Graham]

Man, I can appreciate you.

[Jason Kelsey]

Thank you.

[Brandon Graham]

You know what, man? Me being a family, man, me, I felt like that was right up my alley and, you know, just got to talking about it with some people and, you know, just wanted to make sure that for me that I. That I went out there and just. I wanted to add value to the world as, you know, and the kids is where. Where we at. And I felt like for me, man, I just wanted to do something different. Some that came up and my wife was like, man, she was all for it. Like, yeah, you know, this would be sweet, something that you could do. I read to the kids every night anyway, and so I thought this would. Would be just something that. That just would add more value to the season that we had on top of the person I am that my kids see me, you know, every day. And I felt like this was a good opportunity for me to add some more value to my kids and something that they can look back on and be like, man, you did that. And so that was cool.

[Jason Kelsey]

It's awesome.

[Brandon Graham]

But for the most part, man, I think this was near and dear to my heart with the kids, and I wanted my kids to see something other than just football of them dad doing something cool.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, it definitely fits in line with Brandon Graham. I could see a Brandon Graham book coming a million miles away. You're a great dad. You're a great father. So this. I can't wait. Cannot wait. Check it out, everybody.

[Travis Kelsey]

BG's ABCs.

[Brandon Graham]

It's gonna be out May 9th, y'all. May 9th. Pre order now on Amazon. Just type in Brandon Graham book and it'll be popped up right there. So appreciate y'all.

[Travis Kelsey]

Hopefully it helps me with my reading, man. Man, I'm a scrub. I can't barely read this damn rundown.

[Brandon Graham]

Hey, you. You know what? It's gonna get better as you get kids, man. You're gonna want that you got. And I know for you, man, it's gonna be cool. But make sure you know you ready when you're ready, because it's gonna slow you down a little bit.

[Travis Kelsey]

There you go.

[Brandon Graham]

In a good way. In a great way.

[Travis Kelsey]

No, yeah, of course. All right, that does it for a little new news, man. Let's. Let's talk to 2024 Eagles. Man, you guys didn't end on a really a high note in 2023. So coming into this season, what were the. What were the. Is. Are the expectations always super bowl or bus? Or is it just like. What were the expectations coming into the season in terms of. In the locker room, what were you guys talking?

[Brandon Graham]

Well, we was at the lowest, I felt, in a while that we've been, especially coming off a season after we lost to y'all. That was. That was. That was tough. That was tough when we lost in Arizona. But coming off that year, we just had a. It was a lot of excitement coming back because we had a lot of guys from that team. But. But it. But the lesson for me was when you. When you got to replace coaches, that was pretty tough because we had decide come in, then we had got some other people that came in, and everybody. I feel when you. You have a certain amount of time, as you know, to get everybody on the same page and to be able to, as a D coordinator to come in, teach his scheme, and you have to be able to pass the message from coach to player, and players got to be able to receive it. It's just the timing of everything really didn't didn't fit with the type of team we. We was. We had and the expectations that was coming. But I felt like that was the lowest of lows last year when we lost and then Kelce retired and everything got better. Yeah, it was crazy. I know, Kels. I feel so bad, man.

[Travis Kelsey]

Y'all got a little bigger on the offensive line.

[Brandon Graham]

It opened up some doors, didn't it? It opened up some doors. Oh, man. But, yeah, it was a lot of expectations from this year, just not repeating, you know, from last year. And so when Vic came, I think Vic was able to hire other coaches that he had that was. That he already was familiar with. So that worked out perfect, because the. The DB Coach, he came in, man, he already knew Vic. D. Line coach. Coach Clint knew Vic. I mean, Washington's a great coach already with us, so we've been together for a while, so we already knew how. How to work with him. And then, yeah, man, it's about how you.

[Jason Kelsey]

Who.

[Travis Kelsey]

You.

[Brandon Graham]

How you working together and how relay the message and how you teaching it. And I think Vic was real tough early on. And, man, he was tough as far as, like, he was like, source to me, which I like is, I'm not your friend. I'm here to do my job. I'm here to do my job. And then if we build to that, eventually you break them in, you know? And so I felt like we was gonna break them in one of these days. And, man, when he came in saying some of the lingo that some of the guys say, oh, man, you knew you had. You know, you knew you had him. You knew it. Cause we was rubbing off on him in a good way. Cause he was so tough, man, early on, and he just thought we sucked. He was like, man, you guys, last year, y'all don't work hard enough. And he said that openly. But I think as we got. We gained his trust and his respect after as just going through everyday life with him. And by the end of the year, our goal was to get him a big smile. And that was when he held that trophy. Man, I got that picture on my phone where he got. Holding it up and smiling.

[Jason Kelsey]

Let's switch it up a little bit to the offense, though. What was it like adding Saquon from your perspective?

[Brandon Graham]

What was that?

[Travis Kelsey]

What were those first couple practices like with a workhorse like that?

[Brandon Graham]

Man, when you see him hitting the hole and just know, like, he ran to the. He ran to the zone every time. Like, every time in practice, he always run to the zone and so run to the zone.

[Jason Kelsey]

What's the end?

[Brandon Graham]

I'm sorry. He ran to the end zone.

[Travis Kelsey]

He finishes everything.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah, he finishes. He finished everything. And they always got somebody in for him.

[Travis Kelsey]

He finished everything in the game, too. You hand him that ball, he's gonna find a way to break away. See, people don't understand when you get running backs like that that know how to train for those big gains, they know they have the home run legs and the stride and the ability to separate once they get to second level. If they take that practice series and practice seriously, it just translates to the game. And I feel like almost every single game he played, we saw at least one in the second half when he had already ran for 100 yards. And it was just so impressive. And sure enough, in practice, he's taken every single run to the house. That's.

[Brandon Graham]

He wore people down. I mean, the off. Like, I got to give Styler his credit always, man, because it started with him. He's the technician as far as keep staying on the offensive offensive line, making sure that, as Kelsey know, that you guys are working the technique right over and over and over, and you can't get bored with the details. And so you see Stout all the time, just. Just always on, always thinking next level. And, man, it just worked out so much for him this year, especially Adam Saquon. He was the ace in the hole for us that we've been needing. You know, just because, man, getting him, you need a home run hitter like that. And that boy was wearing people out. Like, you might have got him in the first half, and if you did get him that second half, he ready for the big one, Right? And I can remember the Saints game when he hit that home run going up the middle. Well, you know, it's almost like the same train play, that counter play, boy, woo them boys. I wouldn't want to see none of them boys coming my way like a Jordan mulatto on a pool.

[Jason Kelsey]

Landon Dickerson, Jordan.

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, my goodness. Oh, that left side. And Lane already a brick wall, man. Lane, Lane, hold down that right side. And when we really like. I think Sting gonna be a really good, good one this year. We had Makai, but I think Sting is a good one. And we probably draft one too, but man, yeah, we got a really good line Cam held up all the way through, and I don't see why we couldn't do it again other than just staying healthy.

[Jason Kelsey]

We did have Saquon on the show right when he had been picked up.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

And he did mention he was glad he didn't have to hear your smack talk anymore.

[Travis Kelsey]

You have to apologize for any previous talking or what.

[Brandon Graham]

Nah, nah, ain't no apologies, man. That's how I felt at the time. Hey, that's why I never go too personal. Because, man, I don't want nobody looking for me afterwards. But right at that same time, like, man, I'm just trying to get in your head, trying to have a little fun while backing it up.

[Travis Kelsey]

You know it.

[Brandon Graham]

But Kels, just know, man, you was. You was big about. You was a part of that too, man, as much as, yeah, you retired, but everybody always was looking for you when you came in. And I think we added a lot of value on just being in that building, man, because that culture is. Is what. What we did every day. All these boys do is work, work, and they work and they put the work in. And I think we built to that, man. Now, now it's just more about for us just showing that love, having that access to come in. And I don't want the hours of the coaches, but I want to be able to add value to the organization to keep it going.

[Travis Kelsey]

Well, it's like you're reading the rundown right now, bg, man. What was the.

[Brandon Graham]

Hey, that was just a little picture.

[Travis Kelsey]

There you go. What was the. What was the first season without the guys that you came in with? You were the. You were the last of the Mohicans, so to speak, with Jason and flesh retiring in 2023. And you already know you guys share the same type of. Of. Of character and. And desire to help these young guys out. What was it like being the last guy from the. From the start that. That was there to show the. The guys coming in and to set the culture, everything. Because you need those guys year in, year out, no matter if they're coming from a different team. You got to have those culture setters in training camp and. And early on in the seasons to be able to, you know, get everybody dialed in the right way. What was it like without Jason and Fletch last year?

[Brandon Graham]

It was different. You know, I would see Kelce, so it made it. Made it a lot better. But Fletch really didn't come around as much. And I think. I don't know if he was just not wanting to be around. Cause he be hunting, you know, I know he loving what he doing, but, you know, she was trying to figure.

[Travis Kelsey]

Out what was going on in August, you know what I'm saying?

[Brandon Graham]

He doing his own thing. Kelsey was just do. I mean, he was just doing his own thing. And so it was different because that's somebody who had his locker right next to me the whole time all the way until, you know, he was done. So seeing someone else. And Mojo Morrow, Ojamo is. Is a guy that I really respect, man. I think he gonna be a guy this year that's gonna have a big year, too, again. Because, you know, it's a lot of guys on that bench already that I feel is gonna add value to the team this year, especially with Milk going. Then we gotta replace Sweaty. But yeah, Fletch was a guy that, man. I was like, dang.

[Jason Kelsey]

We were really lucky because we inherit. I think the Eagles have been so well run for a long time. For Jeffrey Lurie on down, obviously Andy, before he left to go to Kansas City. There was such a culture established when we got there, whether it was Trent Cole, jp, Brad Selleck, Jason Avant, like, there's. The Eagles have always done a great job of keeping guys around specifically for that, I think. And everybody does it in their own way. Some guys are going to be more vocal, like, hey, this is. This is stupid. I don't know why we're doing this. This is the dumbest thing in the world. And you need the other guys to be like, hey, you know, let's just. Let's just do it for a little bit. We're just going to do it today.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

And then we'll see how it goes. You know what I mean? We're just going to go out there, do our jobs.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

But I'm dead serious, everybody. If you never get that side of somebody, you know, voicing that, then nothing really gets changed. It needs to get changed. So the more I. I used to, like, early in my career, similar to you, I didn't really understand it. I was like, man, can we just go out here and do our thing? And then the older you get, the more you realize, like, oh, no, it's good to voice that stuff a lot of the times, because not only are they feeling it, other people in the team are feeling it, but they can't voice it because they're not the. The big guys, the big names. You know what I mean?

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yep.

[Brandon Graham]

Yep.

[Travis Kelsey]

I got a quick story. My first seven years in the league, we always sat in the back of the plane and it just. It was what it was. You mean, the coaches stay up late, they got to get ready for the next game plan. The plane didn't have, like, the big. It wasn't enormous plane where there were multiple rows of, like, first class for Whatever reason, my guy, Carlos Dunlop comes in from Cincinnati and he makes his way to Kansas City. At this point in his career, I think he's like a 10 plus, 13 plus year vet. Oh, yeah, Proven. Does things the right way, talks to people the right way. Comes in, he says, what are we sitting in the back of the plane for, man? You. We gotta say something about this. I'm too old to be sitting in the back of the plane. Like letting it. Oh, we gotta go ahead, we gotta make. I'm just. I'm like, man, listen, Carlos, we choose our battles here.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah, right, right, right, right. Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's not the B, man.

[Travis Kelsey]

The next week he made it. He talked to somebody in the organization and the next week we were all sent up at first class. Le back like, hey, pretty. This is pretty nice.

[Brandon Graham]

That's nice.

[Jason Kelsey]

Tell you what, the Eagles ain't gonna be happy about hearing this because the Eagles still don't. They're. Everybody's still in the back right there.

[Brandon Graham]

Everybody.

[Jason Kelsey]

And who used to complain about it?

[Brandon Graham]

Myself.

[Jason Kelsey]

Big Fletch.

[Brandon Graham]

Fletch. Big Fletch. But Fletch was the main one. Fletch was the main one. I gotta give Fletch his, his, his credit.

[Jason Kelsey]

He's right. It is stupid. Why the heck are the players in the back of the play?

[Travis Kelsey]

Especially when you got 300 pound, you know, 6, 7, 6, 9. All these big. Yeah, all these big offensive defensive linemen, man, let them get some at least. Let them at least get a seat they could fit in.

[Brandon Graham]

Man, how the trainers up here. What like, you know. Oh, I'm telling you, man, I used to not walk up. I used to always get out the back because I never wanted to watch. We'll go to the front because it'd be like, man, all these coaches eating all this M M's and stuff like they did, you know, man, but for real, Chip Kelly. One thing I can say, the one thing Chip Kelly had right, that boy got us in the front, boy. He was like, we are coaches. They the players. And it was like, yeah. Everything else was like, all right, Coach.

[Jason Kelsey]

I did want to say before we moved on, that is one thing that I really like and I'm sure you're going to enjoy too. BG is. You know, we had the guys that we inherited it from with, with Trent and JP and Yvonne and selling all those guys.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Now it's really fun for me watching a guy like Jordan Malata take another step as a leader. You know, they already got Lane Johnson, that room. But you, you get to see these young guys. And you already mentioned Morrow, right? Like a guy that comes to work, and you're starting to see all these guys that are now going to be replacing the. The. The backbone of the leaders in those in the locker room. And that's something I love seeing every single day now.

[Brandon Graham]

I love that, man. You right, because I am going. Because that's my biggest question. Like, man, who gonna step up in a big way this year? I mean, I know Nolan. I'll already be talking with him. We always, you know, converse. Because, I mean, we both rehabbing our tricep. And, you know, seeing him, I know that I'm like, man, it went from my. Not even my room because I felt. I wanted sweaty to feel, not the pressure. I want him to be able to voice his opinion, be out there, man, this your room, man. Like, I'm just here. Yeah, I'm the vet, but if you need me, I'm here. But we listening to. We seeing you every day because you the starter. This show your team. And now I'm Nolan. It's. It's like, man, you the. You the one. You the one. Now when the guys come in, he.

[Jason Kelsey]

Stepped up, too, man.

[Brandon Graham]

He did, man. I'm proud of him.

[Travis Kelsey]

A lot of strides, man. He was. He gave me fits in the game.

[Jason Kelsey]

It was interesting because the. The play in the run was always the knock. It's like, he's lighter and how's he going to do it? And, man, he would cut pulling tackles, trying to kick him out.

[Travis Kelsey]

He's got heavy hands, man. He's setting the edge.

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, he got a heavy hit. And I mean, no gloves, too. Like, that's the thing, man. I got much respect, bro.

[Jason Kelsey]

Put some gloves on. Put some gloves on. I ain't got no respect. Why you. Why are you not wearing the gloves?

[Brandon Graham]

Hey, who are you trying to impress?

[Jason Kelsey]

We all know your hands are gonna work just as good with them gloves on, and they're gonna like, I don't know.

[Brandon Graham]

You right? You right.

[Jason Kelsey]

I don't like this. Like, oh, I'm too cool. I don't wear gloves. Like, it's only an advantage. Put the goddamn gloves on. All right.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah. Yeah. When that ball coming and that thing sticky and they sticky, they got you, you. You know, but, yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. Kelsey. Jason's hilarious, but, yeah, he raw talent.

[Jason Kelsey]

Thanks to our presenting sponsor, HBO's The Last of Us.

[Travis Kelsey]

Hey, HBO's biggest series, the Last of Us, returns with a new season on. Max, Jason's fired up.

[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

How about it? CNN calls the Last of Us exquisite, fully realized and worthy of the hype.

[Jason Kelsey]

Based on the groundbreaking video game the Emmy Award winning HBO original series the Last of US premieres April 13th on MAX. And listen to the official the Last of Us podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Now, a moment brought to you by American Express.

[Travis Kelsey]

Ooh, American Express. My favorite part of traveling is food. I love spending money on food from all over the world that doesn't have onions or mayo in it.

[Jason Kelsey]

I like the all of that, plus the onions and mayo.

[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

That's the powerful backing of American Express for full terms and to learn more, visit americanexpress.com withamics all right, 92 percenters, we want to hear from you.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's right, we've got a survey. Just a couple minutes of your time, please. And to say thanks for taking the survey, you'll be entered for a chance to win a custom jersey from our New Orleans house party drop. How about that?

[Jason Kelsey]

That's right. A one of a kind New Heights jersey could be yours. Yeah, just go to Wondery FM NHSurvey and fill out the survey for your chance to win.

[Travis Kelsey]

How about it?

[Brandon Graham]

Every big moment starts with a big dream. But what happens when that big dream turns out to be a big flop? From Wondery and Ill Media, I'm Misha Brown and this is the Big Flop. Every week, comedians join me to chronicle the biggest flubs, fails and blunders of all time. Like Quibi.

[Travis Kelsey]

It's kind of like when you give yourself your own nickname and you try to, like, get other people to do it.

[Brandon Graham]

And the 2019 movie adaptation of Cats.

[Jason Kelsey]

Like, if I'm watching the dancing and.

[Brandon Graham]

I'm noticing the feet aren't touching the.

[Travis Kelsey]

Ground, there's something wrong with the movie.

[Brandon Graham]

Find out what happens when massive hype turns into major fiasco. Enjoy the big Flop on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to the big flop early and ad free on Wondery. Plus get started with your free [e-mail] plus.

[Travis Kelsey]

All right, let's throw it back to the 2010 NFL Draft. Did you always know it was gonna be the Eagles?

[Brandon Graham]

No, I only met with them 15 minutes, man. That was at the combine and at that hotel where they had all the meetings at one point. But I think it's different. They said now, but yeah, I was just 15 minutes. Matt McDermott. I mean, Sean McDermott. And then it was Coach Reed. I remember them talk going over my Iowa game because that was a big game of the year. We was going through different plays and that, that I made. I think I probably had like three, two sacks that game. And it was like a big. It was a big one. We lost, but it came down to the last to the end and just had a big game. And so it was cool talk with them and then that was it.

[Travis Kelsey]

How was that 15 minute meeting with Coach Reed?

[Brandon Graham]

It was, it was intimidating, man. Cause you know, as, you know, that, that big, that big old, like that.

[Jason Kelsey]

Big mustache.

[Brandon Graham]

Not smiling at all. Like, man, I didn't really. Even when I got to got in the league, it was like, man, he didn't talk to us like, for real. Unless she was just a guy that just went out and made plays. And as I continued, like by my third year, he started to say little things like, great, like, and great job. Like, you know, you could see his excitement when people made plays. Like how I would see it with like Shady, like the offensive side always would get that out of him, especially on offense. But on defense, you had to really work to get that, get that from him. But yeah, Coach Reed, he was tough, man. And I see him now with y'all and I love that he got a ring finally, man. Cause, well, a couple now, but more than a couple, but you know what I mean? Like when he was here, he would always get.

[Travis Kelsey]

Before he had that ring.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah, before he got stopped at the door, you know, went through some, some garbage, man, at the end of his stuff. But the reward was so much greater. Losing his son and all that, man, being there for that and being there for him during that time, all that stuff. That's why I was so happy, happy for him. We lost, but that's why I had to walk up on him and grab him at the end. Cause I had to pay the respect for one. I ain't wanna run in that moment. Cause as much as I wanted to go to that locker room, boy, and not just dat people up, I had to eat it and be like, you know what? Be a professional man. Go out and give. Cause when your time come, you gonna want the same thing. And so went to talk to Coach. Talked to you talked to Frank Clark at the time. Cause, you know, he went to Michigan. And I felt good, man. Even at that party. It made me feel a lot better talking it out with and what went wrong. And I hope you went to the party. If not, it's all good. But it just was refreshing after we talked about it, and it didn't feel so bad after we lost. But I was so happy for Coach Reed, though, man. Cause he, as you know, he. He's a. He's a. A list coach, man, and somebody that, you know you gonna miss when he gone.

[Travis Kelsey]

A list human being right there. What does Andy even ask a D lineman in an interview? Can you remember? I mean, I know it was 15, 16 years ago, but, like, what? Yeah, yeah. What. What did he ask much? Or Was it mostly McDermott in the. And the D line, coaches and all that?

[Brandon Graham]

It was mostly McDermott, mostly McDermott talking. Coach Reed just probably was just sitting back, just kind of watching. And then when I remember when I left, like, he just was talking, you know, like, low how he talked. He wasn't ex. Like, it was no excitement. It was all serious in that at the time, for me, man, you know, me coming in, I was like, what up, Cody? Hey, y'all.

[Travis Kelsey]

Hey.

[Brandon Graham]

You know, that. All that. But it wasn't. It wasn't as many smiles as much as it was smiles on draft day. When they drafted me, they was just asking me about, you know, my stuff that I think. I think we was more of the topic at one point in college, you know, just talk about the smoking and all that stuff. But I didn't really have no off the field stuff in college. It was. I think I had a. What was it? One disorderly conduct for my. For my speakers in my car. You know, stuff like that. I think that's what they.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's nothing.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah, just being disruptive, like, it was one of them I had to answer to.

[Jason Kelsey]

I'm a coach. I like that. Yeah. He's disruptive. Yeah. Disrupted.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah. So, you know, we talked about that. Yeah. And then we talked about. That's it.

[Jason Kelsey]

I'm just being honest. If somebody comes to me and they all. I got two defensive ends, they were in the exact same speeds, same times, and the only other information they give me. Is like, one of them never really talks, and it's super quiet, and the other one is super disruptive. I'm like, I'm taking the disruptive one. Give me the disruptive disorderly.

[Brandon Graham]

Give me that one. Give me that one. He got some aggression. Boy, he ready, right? Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Got a fire in his belly.

[Brandon Graham]

I like it.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, man, you were. You were already. You were already in an Eagles uniform. But what. What was your first impression of when Jason Kelce got on the team?

[Brandon Graham]

First impression.

[Travis Kelsey]

Can you remember your first time being like, who the is this guy?

[Jason Kelsey]

It was the entire season.

[Brandon Graham]

Well, you know what? He. That hair. It's that hair. The hair at the time had the long hair. You know, he was. He wasn't as flowing out that helmet.

[Travis Kelsey]

Cape on.

[Brandon Graham]

He had the cape on, and then we had. Who we have. We had mud. Huh? Mud. At that time.

[Jason Kelsey]

Danny Watkins.

[Brandon Graham]

Danny Watkins. Danny definitely was not at. I mean, he was. That. He was there more than he was playing. Playing football. For real. Yeah. I got much respect for Danny, though. He. He. He used. Seriously, he used it, man. He used it.

[Jason Kelsey]

He. At the end of the day, Danny just. He wanted to be a fireman instead of a football player, more like. I mean, there ain't nothing wrong with that. I respect the hell out.

[Brandon Graham]

I respect it. It's pretty crazy.

[Jason Kelsey]

He got drafted in the first round and then. But, yeah, having that mentality. But he's. I think I just saw something a couple years ago. He saved somebody's life being a fireman. Like, hey, Danny doing his thing?

[Travis Kelsey]

Hell, yeah, Danny.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah, Danny is doing his thing, man. I mean, you know, he found his niche for Alex after.

[Travis Kelsey]

I remember my brother that daddy bought a fire truck, like one that they weren't using anymore and was just riding around the city. And I'm like, Jason is just going around hammering beers, riding around Philly.

[Brandon Graham]

Took.

[Jason Kelsey]

It to the game.

[Brandon Graham]

I'm like, man, people probably got out the way, huh?

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm in college still. I'm like, what the kind of life is this guy living out there in Philadelphia, man?

[Jason Kelsey]

We took it to the game. It might have been the game. I tore my acl. I don't remember, but we took it to the game. One of them. I'm in there with an axe with a big old mustache or something like that. I can't remember. I thought it was out there somewhere.

[Travis Kelsey]

You got a favorite Jason Kelsey story from your time there? We. We all know about the trash cans and the. And the helmets being thrown during practice. You got any Good stuff outside of.

[Brandon Graham]

Those, you know, what if I had to think about, you know what? Some of his speeches, man, was great. Especially, like, during COVID years when we was inside the bubble, man. Like, I just felt like your speech has always hit home because of, you know, just the realness of them, man. And, you know, I just always respect just how, like, you guys on here, y'all be vulnerable and crying and all that stuff. Like, me, I was. I grew up. You know, my mom used to be on me about crying, and so, man, I used to be so tough. Even this. Even. It felt so good crying when I had. Did my speech. Because, man, it's just been a while. You know what I'm saying?

[Jason Kelsey]

For sure.

[Brandon Graham]

You always try to be too tough. And it's like, man, I love. Love that you guys, you know, wear that. Wear that emotion on your sleeve, man. Cause I mean, we need more of that as men, getting that stuff out. And so I've gotten a lot better with that. And I always admire that, that you can, you know, do that. And so, man, I felt for me, you know, just. Even with the speeches, you know, we always listen because we knew that you just not a bullshitter, man. Like, you know, you might laugh and have fun and all this stuff here and there, but it's more of, like, when you do get your. You, you know, opening up and doing some stuff, man, it's always cool because you can tell that it means something to you. So that's. That's what. Just telling you my inspiration. Your inspiration on how you inspired, you know, just me on just like, man, how you can know your emotions, like, you know what I'm saying? And. And. And be okay with that, man.

[Travis Kelsey]

Real, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, every single time, I was trying not to. I was trying not to cry, but I couldn't help it. But, yeah, that's one of the things just comes out.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah, it's in the blood, but I can respect it.

[Jason Kelsey]

I gotta say, my. My biggest BG memory. I mean, there's a lot of them, but the one I really think about is the trash talking before the Giants game. I still think about that. All year, Big Dexter Lawrence had been beating the crap out of centers, and I'm getting ready to go. I got to be on my game right now. This is a big game for us. First playoff game of 2022.

[Brandon Graham]

Yep.

[Jason Kelsey]

This dude has been killing people. I had already played him a couple times, so I'd already used a lot of my tricks. So I'm like, man, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to trick him this time.

[Travis Kelsey]

I don't know if I'll be able.

[Jason Kelsey]

To trick him this time.

[Travis Kelsey]

I gotta trick him into being trick.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, yeah, I got, I got. I gotta outplay the trick. I gotta go. He's gonna think I'm doing this. I gotta go do that. And BG is just talking so much to this dude. And I see Dexter up there and he's like, yeah, oh yeah. He's getting madder and madder. I'm like, God damn it. BG's making my job so much.

[Travis Kelsey]

No, he makes the job easier. Cuz now he's gonna be aggressive. And that's how you really trick somebody. Get a real aggressive. Aggressive. Yeah, you can start pulling the chair and get them off their body.

[Jason Kelsey]

It was all good. It ended up, hey, it ended up being perfect. It was a great game for us. So everybody was playing good.

[Travis Kelsey]

Bg, we gotta, we gotta talk more about the, the trash talking, man. We've, we've shouted out your trash talking so much on this, on this show. Everyone in the league always put you up there in the top of the list in terms of be being able to dishing and back it, it up. When did you start trash? Has it always been a part of your game? Has this just always been how you enjoy playing the game? Or did you like at some point say something to somebody and found out, oh, I could, I could change the way they play and the way they, they react to, to what's going on.

[Brandon Graham]

I think me being trash talk, especially in Detroit, because people used to come for me because being a linebacker, I played linebacker. And then when you start making a name for yourself, everybody want to come for you, you know, and gun for you. And so people used to talk stuff to me.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Brandon Graham]

Because I used to be a person that used to lead by example, by how I do and not really talk about it. But then people started saying, man, I want to hear you, man. Like you know, you leader of our team. And they want to. And I used to be nervous on like talking. I mean I've grown to this where I talk a lot now. But it's like at first it used to be just me doing my job and then when I get, when I get going, I can feel my juice. Yeah, yeah. What you say? You know what I'm saying? Like all the stuff you talk to. Yeah, what you say? I don't hear you talking now. That type of stuff. But as I got to the league, it became more animated, more fun. Always try not to cuss because I felt like the. That's when the refs throw the flag. I try to have something little funny, but at the same time, you know I'm serious, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

I just knew we, we would go out there for. It'd be like hot as hell training camp. We're all tired of being out there.

[Brandon Graham]

Does this happen in practice or what?

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, bro, it never stops.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah, we go going out there, we.

[Jason Kelsey]

Going out there for like two minute drill or whatever. And bj. Yeah, fat boy. You know what's coming.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah, you know what's coming, fat boy. I'll be like, man, what kind of snack, what kind of hardcore was that? What is that? Hey, like, like Kelse do his little. That little. Yeah, I'll be like, man, you ain't fooling nobody with that. Oh, man, we had some fun, boy. I'm definitely one thing about it, man, I'm gonna miss that that time. Them practices especially, cuz practices got a lot easier, man. Cuz in the beginning used to be tough, man. Coach Reed. Oh my goodness. Train the drive drill.

[Travis Kelsey]

Trying to get a little drive drill in. Oh, you getting me fired up.

[Brandon Graham]

You about to get ready for that. We got to see who tough on our team first weekend when we get them pads. Coach Reed, boy, when we was up in Lehi, he wanted to make see who, who was gonna quit and who was gonna be the people that, you know was gonna be the people that we was gonna take for the team. And man, we used to do nine on seven, right? Team run. Then you got like you say long drive drill in the end of practice and it's like, boy, is you crazy?

[Travis Kelsey]

You know, he hasn't changed it one bit. He hasn't changed it one bit. It's still that exact. We always start off with team one quick blitz and then we're straight into 907.

[Brandon Graham]

907. Boy, I love it, man. Cause you really do see some stuff. Yeah, you might wear, wear down a little bit, but it ain't 2A days like how we was just imagine 2A days like how where we doing that one practice that you talking about. But then we got to do it again and it ain't no mercy. It wasn't like he'd be like, okay, they had a rough, a rough, rough one in the beginning. Let's get it. It's just like no next man up.

[Travis Kelsey]

Everybody had a rough one in the beginning. You about to have another one right here.

[Jason Kelsey]

Let me ask you this. What is there an art form to.

[Brandon Graham]

Trash talking you do a little background.

[Jason Kelsey]

Little background?

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah. You do a little background. Like, knowing, like, I follow the page. I follow your page, see what you got up, see what you into. Talk about some. Get you all. Get you all. I do, like, you know where I learned it from? I learned it from a little bit of, like, you know, just other players on. Just like, man, look at their Instagram. You could tell. You could tell exactly what kind of stuff they into, talk with them, like, you know what I'm saying? I started doing that later on in my career.

[Jason Kelsey]

Sure.

[Brandon Graham]

When social media, you know, just became more accessible. Like how it is now where you can really just look on somebody page, you can kind of tell, find anything you want, anything. And so I started doing that more. But I didn't go, like, personal. Some stuff was just. I want. Like I told you, I ain't want nobody coming looking for me after the game. But, like, a guy like Donald Penn.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Brandon Graham]

Like, yeah, I used to talk my stuff to him. Especially, like, during that time where like, that, like, spicy chicken sandwich stuff popped up. He made me. It made me think about him because I rem. He used to get in trouble. Like, that's Popeyes. Like, you know, And I was like, yeah, man, we about to whoop y'all. Cause I know you'd have had about a couple of them, you know what I'm saying? That type of stuff. Because I knew that he. He was a guy that. That they had in his contract, where if he. If he made sure he stayed underway, he can get an incentive on that. So when I found that out, oh, man, I started messing around, stuff like that, you know what I'm saying?

[Travis Kelsey]

Nothing like a good, heavy joke.

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I know. I know every week was like, all right, bg, Come on, man, where you at? Jump on the scale. Yes, I'm good today, thank you. You know what I'm saying? That's what I am going to be happy about. But I promise you, I'm about to. Hey, I bet you everybody had money. On the plus side of it, like, nah, we gonna see. BG Gonna be slim. Slim goody when I get done.

[Jason Kelsey]

I'm not gonna lie. Just so you know, bg.

[Brandon Graham]

Uhhuh.

[Jason Kelsey]

Everybody thinks you're gonna turn into an overweight mess.

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Cause you would show up. You would show up to training camp every year. Big your credit. You would lose weight.

[Brandon Graham]

Uhhuh.

[Jason Kelsey]

But. But we know you like them cookies, bg.

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, yeah, we know you like them cookies.

[Travis Kelsey]

You got a cookie. Got a little Cookie monster in you.

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, man, you know I love just. Just sweets. But let me tell you, I've been working out as you can see. Kels, I was in there with you today. I'mma make sure I. I'm just trying to keep that routine because you right. I know, I know. Fletch can't wait. Fletch over there. Fletch the ring leader of it, like. Exactly, exactly. B.G. gonna be this. I bet you I put my money down. It's money down all already, but you better get. I'm about to pick it right up.

[Jason Kelsey]

I might. I might better, Fletch, after this conversation.

[Brandon Graham]

I've had so much more self control cuz my wife, you know, she is killing it. And she.

[Jason Kelsey]

She don't play. Carla ain't playing.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, that's too funny.

[Brandon Graham]

She don't play and she like, look, we about to have. We about to be in weddings. We about to do all this stuff. And you out here, you better make sure that you right. I'm like, I got you, baby. There we go.

[Travis Kelsey]

Accountability in the house.

[Brandon Graham]

I need accountability, partner. And so see, the one, she. The one, she kind of reminds me.

[Jason Kelsey]

Of Vic Fangio a little bit. You know, she got a little bit of that Vic Fangio nonsense.

[Brandon Graham]

I made sure I make sure. I. I really want to make change. If I tell her, If I tell her, cuz I don't want her on me, man, saying, hey, you said you was going to do this. Why you over there doing that? It's like, oh, my goodness, like I can't have a snack or, you know.

[Jason Kelsey]

It'S just one. It's just one, baby. All righty. Let's get to a game. We're gonna play with you, bg. Did you sack him?

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, okay.

[Travis Kelsey]

Did you sack him? That's right. Brought to you by American Express.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. You played in over 200 NFL games and recorded over 82 career sacks.

[Brandon Graham]

Yep.

[Jason Kelsey]

So we're gonna ask you today, did you sack him? We're gonna give you the quarterback's name, and you tell us if you sacked him.

[Brandon Graham]

Let me see if I'm real good at this.

[Travis Kelsey]

Let me see if you can remember.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah, yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

All right.

[Jason Kelsey]

I'll start with an easy one. Tony Romo sacked him.

[Brandon Graham]

I can see a picture of mine right now.

[Travis Kelsey]

Drew Brees.

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, yes, I did. I sacked him. Yep. I think it was a strip. Strip sack, too.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, okay.

[Brandon Graham]

Okay.

[Jason Kelsey]

All right now. All right, now.

[Brandon Graham]

Not many. Not many times, but I did sack him, though.

[Jason Kelsey]

All right. Eli Manning, man.

[Brandon Graham]

Let me see. I'mma go with. Yes. You had for so long. Played him a bunch. I did.

[Travis Kelsey]

Had to. Andrew Luck.

[Brandon Graham]

Nope.

[Travis Kelsey]

Never got him.

[Brandon Graham]

Never got him.

[Travis Kelsey]

Okay, okay. All right.

[Brandon Graham]

DB Got him. DB Got him. When? When he played, when we was. It was the year 2018, last play. DB ended up getting him of the game. But now I. I get him. I didn't get him.

[Jason Kelsey]

Lamar Jackson.

[Brandon Graham]

Yep. Sacked him. I chased him down to the sideline. He ran out of bounds. He ran out of bounds. So, you know, it was behind the line, sack. So it was like. Yes, that counts.

[Jason Kelsey]

That counts.

[Brandon Graham]

You.

[Travis Kelsey]

That don't count.

[Jason Kelsey]

That don't count. That don't count.

[Brandon Graham]

It's on the stat sheet, baby. Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Then it counts. Well, speaking of, what was it like?

[Jason Kelsey]

What? Yeah, what was it like chasing Lamar far down?

[Brandon Graham]

Man, that boy fast. And I mean, when I tell you he is explosive and he stopped at the drop of a dime, like, you got to really take your shot with him because if you. If you playing around like him and he just. He gonna take off on you. So I just took my shot and he went out of bounds and they caught up a sack. That was a sack. At the end of the game, you.

[Travis Kelsey]

Were the closest one to him.

[Brandon Graham]

Closest one to him.

[Travis Kelsey]

Boy, there you go. You're on a roll right now. You got all these rights so far.

[Jason Kelsey]

Aaron Rodgers.

[Brandon Graham]

Aaron Rodgers. That's a good one right there. Because I did not sack him at all.

[Travis Kelsey]

What?

[Brandon Graham]

Nope. I. I don't know. I can't. I gotta remember. Let me see.

[Jason Kelsey]

We got him as the.

[Brandon Graham]

You did sack how many? How many? Because. Hold on. Yes, yes, yes, yes, I did sack him. 2017. Y. I did sack him. I sacked him. Okay. I think. Or 26. I thought we played him. And I. I remember Nigel Bradham the year. The game. Game. That he caught the pick at the end of the game up there because we had 20.

[Jason Kelsey]

That was 2018.

[Brandon Graham]

2018. Yeah. 2018. Yeah. 2018. Yeah. Aaron. Because Aaron wasn't. It wasn't often with Aaron either. Like, you know, like, I. I couldn't get him.

[Travis Kelsey]

He gets the ball out quick.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah, man, that ball quick. You know, so he was. He was one that I wanted to get.

[Travis Kelsey]

What about another? All time great. Peyton Manning.

[Brandon Graham]

Peyton Manning, Danny. Yes, I sacked him. I sacked him. No, no, sure. Nah, you right sure. He threw it away.

[Travis Kelsey]

He threw it away. Did you get the sheriff?

[Brandon Graham]

No, I didn't get him. I didn't get him.

[Travis Kelsey]

No, you didn't sack him?

[Brandon Graham]

Nah, I didn't get him. I didn't get him.

[Travis Kelsey]

The sheriff had to have had some fun trash talking you back, man.

[Brandon Graham]

He was one that I would talk to, but he just would look at me like, you know, be like, yeah, huh? You know what I'm saying? Like, even like his brother. His brother was the same way. Eli, you know, Eli just kind like, you know, do this love and. And just kind of look and go back to the. To the huddle. But you know who used to talk. Talk stuff back to me? Philip Rivers. Philip Rivers.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, I was about to say Rivers.

[Jason Kelsey]

I've heard he's.

[Travis Kelsey]

He's already up there.

[Brandon Graham]

He was. He was one boy that just hit you on your butt. Yeah, how about that? You know, I hit you with a. Like, I just remember, remember him first down, hit me on my butt first down. Like, how about that one? You know that. And it was like, okay, you. You hitting me. You touching me. Okay, okay. Bet. Bet.

[Travis Kelsey]

Too funny.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, that game. That packers game is 2019. My bad. 2019.

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, 2019. Okay. Okay.

[Jason Kelsey]

Is there a quarterback you never sacked, but wish you did.

[Brandon Graham]

Let me go through this list real quick. Who did. I didn't touch that. I wanted to. I mean, of course it would have been. It would have been cool to get a picture with Vic, you know, sacking him. But I got practice, practice of practice of pictures and stuff like that. But it's so different, you know, when you in action. So Vic would have been one if he would have still been in Atlanta playing down there. But I will, you know, just to say I had to got a sack on Vic and then I got one on deck. I love all. I love getting sacks on. On Cowboys quarterbacks, especially at they place at they place. It ain't nothing like getting a win in Jerry's world, boy, because when. Because Jerry. Jerry has said one time that, yeah, y'all drafting him high like he ain't, you know, he said something and I had it in my locker. Dang. I wish I'ma get the words if I can. If I could find that article. And it just talked about me going high, I would. I would have had him there if it was my pick or whatever. And so I was like, okay. And so I always. Me being with the Eagles and. And yeah, I noted that. And that's why I kind of started building that. That not even. I wouldn't say hatred, but you know, that. That rivalry with the Cowboys, that excitement, that excitement, excitement to play, you know, with them.

[Travis Kelsey]

Who's the hardest QB to you've ever had to like, a chance to, like, tackle. Who's the hardest.

[Brandon Graham]

Cam. Cam.

[Travis Kelsey]

Big Cam Newton or Ben Roethlisberger.

[Brandon Graham]

Ben Roethlisberger? Yeah. Ben Roth.

[Travis Kelsey]

Slippery.

[Brandon Graham]

Slippery. Yeah. I gotta say slippery big guy, man.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's too funny. Cam is a. I mean, he's a juggernaut, man. The guy. He could have played any position on the field, let alone how great he was at qb, man. Getting that dude down. I remember watching the first one of. The first games of this.

[Jason Kelsey]

I didn't.

[Travis Kelsey]

Might not even been the first game of the season, but when he was playing for Auburn. Oh, yeah, he was running around. I was like.

[Brandon Graham]

I'm like, man, is this. Stiff arms and all that stuff, man.

[Travis Kelsey]

It was just like running through, over, around everybody. Everybody.

[Brandon Graham]

His extension, his extension on, just like, you know, his whole body. I ain't want to, you know, say something. Be like. People say pause, but you know, his length. I'll say big dude, man. And Ben, though. Ben was slippery. So if I had to say my sacks against men, I never took him down. It was more like blue. The end of the whistle just blowing because you got him. You know, that. That type of sack, trying to wrap them up.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yep. Too funny, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

And that was. Did you sack him? Brought to you by American Express. Pretty good. Pretty. You were all right. You may get a little shaky there, but you get good. You did good.

[Jason Kelsey]

You nailed it.

[Travis Kelsey]

Nah, he might have.

[Brandon Graham]

He was a little. I was a little, like. I couldn't remember.

[Travis Kelsey]

He didn't. Aaron Rodgers. He finally came around to it.

[Brandon Graham]

Paid Manny. Paid many, too. Paid Manny. I thought I got him. That was good, though.

[Travis Kelsey]

That was pretty good. That was. It's hard when you got 82 of those things.

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, man, I wanna. I wanna definitely get Autumn on the. On the USB so I can go back to it and watch them. I'm. I'm gonna get Pat. Do that for me. Make me a usb.

[Jason Kelsey]

I'm sure Pat's gonna be happy about that one. He'll be excited about it.

[Brandon Graham]

I'll give him a shout out. I'm gonna give him a shout out. Let him know when. When he do it. Tell everybody. Yeah. Pat did this for me.

[Travis Kelsey]

Gotta love it, man. Thank you to our partner, Allstate.

[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, like you know how to check. Check the parking meter first before leaving your car there.

[Jason Kelsey]

Like you know how to check your calendar first before making plans.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, like you know to check your alarm is set first before going to bed.

[Jason Kelsey]

Like, you know to check if the oven is on but first before putting food in it.

[Travis Kelsey]

Checking first is smart, so check all state first for a quote that could save you hundreds.

[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

How about that?

[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

Get 20 off your first order of Liquid IV when you go to Liquid I.com and use use code New Heights at checkout.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's 20 off your first order with new code new heights@liquid I.com.

[Jason Kelsey]

We got to our final section called we gotta ask. We're gonna ask you a bunch of rapid fire questions.

[Brandon Graham]

Okay.

[Jason Kelsey]

You don't have to answer them. You can tell us to off, but okay, we are gonna ask.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Now that lane is alone of the core four that we've been nicknamed, I guess who does he miss most out of me? You and Fletcher Cox.

[Brandon Graham]

I gotta say Kelce, because Kelsey in his room and he know you emo you on the deeper. On the deeper. Because being in the room is so different, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

It makes it different.

[Brandon Graham]

It makes it different. Getting cussed out by your coach and how you respond to it is everything.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, then how about this? Who does he miss the least?

[Brandon Graham]

If I had to say he miss. He gonna miss. Ooh, that's a good one right there.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Brandon Graham]

So I'm gonna go with my boy Fletch. Cause he mad at the world. Mad at the world. Cause that super bowl, man, I told his butt to come on back. I thought he was though.

[Jason Kelsey]

I thought he was gonna come back.

[Travis Kelsey]

Who are you telling, Jason?

[Jason Kelsey]

I'm not. I'm not mad at other. I'm happy. I don't want to play in that game. I was done playing football.

[Brandon Graham]

I know I'm at this point now where I'm with you. I'm with you, Kelsey. Like, I'm getting to that point of, like, man, it's over. It's over. It's cool. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it just.

[Jason Kelsey]

I had my time.

[Brandon Graham]

I had my time, and, you know, the next thing is I got a week to get my locker cleaned up. Like, that's what Greg just gave me, a week before I'm moving in to the next because OTAs are starting, and.

[Jason Kelsey]

They need that locker.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah, they need that Locke locker. So it was sad today when I heard it, he told me, like, hey, man, I'm giving you that week notice. I know you already been cleaning it out, but I'm gonna need it. I'm ask Howie, you know, if it's like, if I can extend you a little bit, but if not, you know, you just got a week. And I'm like, all right, bet. You know, and then it kind of hit me, like, dang, boy, I've been here 15. Damn. You know, now it's like. But I'm happy, though. I'm so happy that it's over. The stresses of it is over. But, yeah, go ahead. Keep.

[Jason Kelsey]

The question is coming favorite great lake.

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, I'm gonna. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go Lake. Lake. Lake Michigan. Come on, man. What's.

[Jason Kelsey]

What we share.

[Brandon Graham]

When I went up to Lake Michigan.

[Travis Kelsey]

It was like, oh, yeah, it's a little more beautiful.

[Jason Kelsey]

Which one would I rather swim in? Yeah, I'm gonna go Lake Michigan.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm gonna go Michigan.

[Brandon Graham]

No, for real. That's the one you going in.

[Jason Kelsey]

I ain't swimming in Lake Erie.

[Brandon Graham]

Yep. Or Lake Huron. Lake Huron. Huron is cool, too.

[Travis Kelsey]

Jason, you can ask this question.

[Jason Kelsey]

Jason, if you could detach any body part, what would you detach?

[Brandon Graham]

If I had to detach any body part, I would just.

[Jason Kelsey]

You could put it back on. You can put it back on.

[Brandon Graham]

Okay.

[Jason Kelsey]

You can take it off and on.

[Brandon Graham]

Probably one of my, like, a foot or something like that. Like, you know, just kind of take a foot off.

[Jason Kelsey]

Take it off. What would you do with it?

[Brandon Graham]

Put it up and go to bed, you know, and then put it back on. Hey, that'd be like, oh, man, I'm taking my foot off. Off. You know, to take. To go rest. And then when it's time to get back, you know, go put it.

[Travis Kelsey]

You know, you can separate.

[Brandon Graham]

You can separate it. Separated, you know, where I can't get out the Bed, baby. I took my foot off already. I took my foot off, baby.

[Jason Kelsey]

My foot's up there on the. The flyer place. I can't be getting up and doing.

[Brandon Graham]

Let me go get my sleep, baby. I'll see you in the morning.

[Jason Kelsey]

I can't go fold these clothes right now. My foot is over there.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah, that's a good one right there. I wouldn't. I don't know. I mean, I wouldn't do nothing up here because this. This where you, you know, I feel like with that. But if I'm chilling and I want to kind of have an excuse, I do something with my lower leg.

[Jason Kelsey]

All right. All right.

[Travis Kelsey]

Now that you're retired, is Big Dom still on your favorite call or your. Yeah. Your call list? Your favorites list?

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, yeah. Dom gonna always be that. Because I gotta. I gotta make sure that anything that's going on in the city, you know, I want to know about just so that I can know. Know where not to go. Because Philly, in the beginning of my career, some certain places that I just go eat or just like, I just wanted certain cheesesteaks, I'd be like, hey, Dom, is this cool to be over here? You say, yeah, you all right during the day? Just don't be over there hanging around. Say, all right, bet. You know, I'm gonna go get some food over there real quick. I'm gonna be in and out. I'm be in and out. So, yeah, Dom was always a good. He always gonna be on the favorites.

[Travis Kelsey]

You gotta talk about your time at Ann Arbor, man. I was actually at one of your spring ball practice practices as a. As a recruit.

[Brandon Graham]

That's crazy.

[Travis Kelsey]

And when I tell you that there was no chance I was ever getting a scholarship to go to Michigan to play quarterback, I was actually in the QB room while guys like Chad Henny, Ryan, Mallet were going over spring ball practices. And, man, it felt like every single play was double post to Mario Manningham. It was crazy. I was like. I was just sitting there listening to the lingo. It was crazy being on those practices, man, the prestige and the history at Michigan, you could feel it as soon as you walked on campus.

[Brandon Graham]

Yep. Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

And was that. Was that like a huge part of you going to the. Going to Michigan?

[Brandon Graham]

You know, I did love the traditions and I love the saying of, those who stay will be champions. And it's like, you start here in the back. We, the rookies were freshmen. Start in the back. And if you make it down to the front, you know, you usually, by the time you got There you usually be a champion. And I didn't get that like, but I love that slate. I didn't get that. I didn't get that. But I made it all four years. But you know, I had Chip, I had Rich Rod for two years and I had Coach Carr, Coach Lloyd Carr for two years. My first two with him and then with. Then Rich Rod came in. But my only two that I really felt like I could have got there as a champion was Coach Carr. Cause my first year we was number two, Ohio State number one. And I think, yeah, we lost to them. Then we went to the Rose bowl, lost to John David Booty, that was the quarterback.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Brandon Graham]

And we ended up losing both last two games. The one in the championship to win, get our, get us a ring. And then we lost in the Rose Bowl. But that was a good experience my first year. Then the second year we went 10 and 2. We didn't have a chance because they got the playoffs now. But we would have been in the playoffs that year and that would have been cool to kind of go through this type of style that they had now. But those was the only chance I had. But those who stay will be champions. That tradition that Michigan brought just from some of the guys that's been there. My dad was a big Michigan fan. So we used to go every, every weekend, every Saturday he cut my hair and then we watch the game, then I go back home to my mom, stuff like that. So when, when they came calling, it was a no brainer. After my junior year I committed right away and was just happy to have that. And then all these other teams started coming out of nowhere.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's cool. Man.

[Jason Kelsey]

Could the average person rush for a yard in the NFL?

[Travis Kelsey]

The average American weighs 199.8 pounds and is 5 9.

[Brandon Graham]

Well, let me tell you this. If they can take the hit, which I think they can't, you know, fumble. I mean if any, I mean they could get one, they could get one. But you got, hey, you have a dang on Fred Warner come get you and take your head off. Then it's like, oh, okay, you gonna rethink it? Yeah, you can get a yard, but can you hold on to that ball when you get hit?

[Travis Kelsey]

We haven't heard that one yet. Aaron Donald has said that Jason is the lineman he hated playing against the most. Who's the least favorite lineman that you've ever lined up against?

[Brandon Graham]

Taron Smith. Man, that was a guy that even at this level, it was like, man, what I didn't like sometimes Is he like to swipe your hand down like, you know that swipe down when you bull. Because I like the bull rush and catch him with the bull and he used to swipe my hands down, I would fall to the ground. I used to call him all kind of names and like, man, that's soft. That's soft you out here, you know. But he was a guy that I was. I respect man, because he always switched it up. When I did get two and a half, two against him, one game, it was so cool because man, he was tearing me up in the beginning, in his prime, a little bit. And I'm just giving him some credit because we had some battles, but for the most part, that was a guy that I always was like, oh man, you know, I gotta get ready. You know, you gotta get ready.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, gotta get ready. Respect that one. What was your welcome to the the NFL moment?

[Brandon Graham]

Let me tell you, I, I know this one was coming. Boy, that boy, what's his name? Daniels. D tackle. That was at the Packers. What's his name? Why can't I think it's his first name?

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, D line, you know what I'm talking about.

[Brandon Graham]

But we was on, remember what I was telling you? On kickoff, I, I became the creator name. I, I created a name for myself and we was playing the packers and that year it was Mike Daniels. Mike Daniels, Yeah. Yeah, Mike Daniels. He. He was.

[Travis Kelsey]

And so these kids will never know what the wedge is. These guys will never, they will never know what it was like.

[Brandon Graham]

Never know. We kicked the ball off and Mike Daniels, like they told him, you know, he gonna be the guy that's blocking me or whatever. But I don't, I ain't care because I ain't think, think nothing of it. I'm running block. We kicked it left and they have a return right. So as I'm running right, he already went right, but he's sizing me up. And this one cracked back. This one crackbacks was still going.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh yeah, that don't. Ambush block.

[Brandon Graham]

Ambush the ambush, boy. I turn, I'm looking at the back as I'm going this way. All I remember is just looking up because that boy that hit me that hard where I'm my feet in the air. I'mma get that clip. I'mma get that clip, boy.

[Jason Kelsey]

Cuz I gotta find this clip.

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, we gotta get that clip, man. Cuz on kickoff return, it was back in 2013, 2014, one of them years where Chip Kelly, where I was playing special teams and we was playing the packers this One had Eddie Lacy, too. Cause he was a. He was another one, man, that gave me a headache when I used to hit him when he was good at that time when that boy was, like, moving. But, man, Mike Daniels gave me that welcome to the NFL moment where it was like, yeah, that boy right there. I don't never like the next kickoff. I was down there looking like, where he at?

[Jason Kelsey]

Exactly. Put your head on a swivel.

[Brandon Graham]

On a swivel this time. That was the first time I turned down a hit where I was like, man, I don't want to get hit like that no more. So that was that moment.

[Jason Kelsey]

There we go.

[Brandon Graham]

Mike Diesel, man, that was that.

[Jason Kelsey]

Should blindside blocks be illegal or should you still be allowed to do those?

[Brandon Graham]

I can't. I can't. It, like, for me, I would always love it because that used to be my game too. I used to get. Catch some people in college. I mean, high school, college, you know, it's a great one when. When. When somebody ran their mouth and you catch them, oh, man, sit your little butt down. But, yeah, but now. Now that we can't do it and. And then somebody try to catch you like that, I try to talk stuff about them, but for the most part, that was what I did, too. So I would have to say I. I would love for it to be. It brought like, one of them, like, them highlights, for real.

[Jason Kelsey]

I just don't get. They say, like, it's a defensive defenseless player. What happened to have your head on a swivel? Yeah, talking about it. You got to defend yourself. I don't get this at all.

[Brandon Graham]

That's the whole point of the league. It's like, man, like, when you out there on that field, you better keep your head on the swivel because people without their gun and while the play is going, you got to keep your head on the swivel, so.

[Jason Kelsey]

Exactly.

[Brandon Graham]

Yeah, man, I would love for it to be back, but, you know, we. We in this player safety league right now, so. Hey, we got to do it. We got to do it. It's evolving. It's evolving.

[Travis Kelsey]

Hopefully it gets back to it, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

I got one more question for you. Which is your favorite Super Bowl?

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, 2017. 2017. Easy.

[Jason Kelsey]

Okay.

[Brandon Graham]

Because. Because of that. That. That play against Brady, man, like I told you, it changed my life. It changed my. It changed my whole.

[Jason Kelsey]

I signed that picture, a bunch of it. Huh?

[Brandon Graham]

Man, I still don't. I still don't understand it because everybody still be coming to these appearances, and I'll be like, man, how did I not meet this person? I feel like I'd have met everybody in the world, but because it's like, man, that picture right there, man, it's nothing like it was. It changed my life. And then on top of that, got my first one. That was my first championship that I was ever in at any level where, you know, I got a ring afterwards. And so it was like, man, it was cool to that. Me and Philly, we all was dying for a ring and a championship and we got it that way. So 2017 will always be near and dear. But this one man, was, was the one too. Because man, that defense, I ain't never seen the defensive style play that we did this week. I mean that, that week of practice and it's translated to the game. So I'm. I'm. But I gotta go. 2017.

[Jason Kelsey]

Awesome.

[Travis Kelsey]

Well, that's awesome.

[Jason Kelsey]

BG. I gotta say, I can't thank you enough for coming on.

[Brandon Graham]

I mean this was great.

[Travis Kelsey]

Thank you for the stories, man. That was amazing.

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, this was appreciated. I love watching y'all boys.

[Jason Kelsey]

I'm sure I'll see you up at Nova Care. I better see you there because I'm gonna make a bet with Fletch about this weight loss.

[Brandon Graham]

Let's go. I love reading them cookies, bg. I ain't gonna be eating them, you know, every periodically, man, ain't. It ain't gonna go nowhere because I got these kids, these kids be like, hey dad, can we go get some ice cream? And you know, I want some too, so. Yeah, that's right. I ain't gonna do it often.

[Jason Kelsey]

And don't forget to check out BG's book ABCs, man.

[Brandon Graham]

Thank y'all.

[Travis Kelsey]

Gotta love it, man. Congrats on a hell of a career, man. I. I'll catch you up there in Philly or sometime soon on. On the links, man. We'll catch up.

[Brandon Graham]

Okay. N. Looking forward to it.

[Travis Kelsey]

Dude, Brandon Graham.

[Jason Kelsey]

How about that one, baby?

[Travis Kelsey]

What a guy. Guy, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

Legend, dude.

[Travis Kelsey]

This talking stories were epic. Everything. The guy could tell the story too. I can't wait to see what his post NFL career looks like. I know he'll stay around the game and. And make sure he passes the wisdom and everything. He's just that kind of guy, man. And Philly, I don't even think they knew exactly what they were getting when they draft him all the way back in, what is it, 2010?

[Jason Kelsey]

Because I was 11. He was a year before. Yeah, I mean he ended up being an all time ego. I mean, he's obviously, I mean, literally the all time leader in games played. Yeah. Getting asked for a better person. More importantly, I mean, great family man, too. Coming out with a children's book, it's so like, Fitz Brandon's what he stands for. Like, just, he's a tremendous person. So couldn't be happier that he came on the show and looking forward to see what he gets up to next. Especially staying away from them cookies.

[Travis Kelsey]

It's hard. It's hard to stay away from. From the cookies.

[Jason Kelsey]

It is.

[Travis Kelsey]

All right, now, before we get into some no dumb questions, I got to make a little statement in the don't believe everything you read kids category or nice realm that you see online. Some false claims were thrown out there that I was doing something in the community that I was not. And I'm not even going to talk about it specifically. I don't want to bring any more attention to that whole nonsense and article and all that stuff. But if you ever want to know exactly what I'm doing in the community, just go to 87running down.org. we're always trying to get out there and. And get in the Kansas City communities and the Cleveland community, but, you know, this time I wasn't doing what was falsely claimed by the social channels or the outlets posting all this AI stuff. So just wanted to set the record straight. Appreciate everybody for always trying to show love, especially Pat McAfee is always trying to look out for the guys in the sports guys and women in the sports, sports world. And yeah, thanks, you guys. All right, now let's get to some no dumb questions brought to you by perplexity. That's right. We spent so much time on this show looking up answers that were now sponsored by a search engine.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's right.

[Travis Kelsey]

How about that Perplexity? You said to throw in the question. It'll hit you with the answer. Discover fast and reliable search with perplexity. To today, hit me with that no dumb question.

[Jason Kelsey]

All right, here's. We got a voicemail coming in.

[Travis Kelsey]

What's up, fellas? My name is Noah. I'm a Lions fan, but I love the show. Okay. Okay.

[Jason Kelsey]

Awesome.

[Travis Kelsey]

18 so I'm not a parent, but.

[Jason Kelsey]

I was gonna ask 18 so I'm.

[Travis Kelsey]

Not a parent situation.

[Jason Kelsey]

What the does that mean?

[Travis Kelsey]

What would you. What advice would you give to a parent that wants to teach their kid how to be better at golf?

[Brandon Graham]

I'm just.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm really.

[Brandon Graham]

I'm really bad at golf, guys. And I, you know, I need help.

[Jason Kelsey]

So. So you're at.

[Travis Kelsey]

Please.

[Jason Kelsey]

So that was the weirdest way of asking us.

[Brandon Graham]

Have a good day.

[Travis Kelsey]

Go lion.

[Jason Kelsey]

Such a weird way to ask us to help him with this golf game.

[Travis Kelsey]

What did the water boy ask Mr. Insane?

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, hey, I'm. No, I'm. I'm 18, so I'm not a parent. And I was like, fuck, where are we going with this?

[Travis Kelsey]

He just wants to let everybody know he's the child in this. He needs. He wants advice to tell his parents on what to do to make him a better golfer.

[Jason Kelsey]

It sounds like from two football players.

[Travis Kelsey]

Well, I mean, consider myself an average golfer. Well, I would say first thing is probably the thing that you've already considered, and that's get lessons now. Now, you're right. The rule of 10,000, bud. Just pick up a stick and go hit that thing, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

That legitimately is my. My number one thing is just play a bunch of golf, dude.

[Travis Kelsey]

Just go out there. Every lie is going to be different. You're going to need to, you know, have a few extra balls in your pocket when you go and play golf the next time. Not so you can cheat, so you can take the same shot multiple times. That way you're getting used to taking all the different random mess above your feed, below your feed, behind, up, up a hill, down it. Like the slopes and all the divots and all the different types of grass. There's so many different shots. You're gonna be overwhelmed by it if you just jump into it. But it's gonna be. It's gonna be fun. I got a good friend right now that's actually picking up the sticks for the first time, man. And Demetrius, he was hacking it. He was hacking it out.

[Jason Kelsey]

Get the out of here. Here.

[Brandon Graham]

Oh, man.

[Travis Kelsey]

But it was. It was funny to see him get into it. Every single shot, every. After every single hole, he's like, I don't. I mean, you just have so much more respect for like the pros. And I'm just like, bro, you are so far behind the wheel in terms of like, the what the pros or where they started and all this, like, dude, not even thinking that you were going to come out here and hit a shot like a pro. Like, you gotta. You're swing. You're such a enormous human being. Either way, I'm getting off track. Yeah, the biggest thing is you get out there and you just hack. You just. You figure out, you know, things. Watch some get on that Instagram. Just start scrolling reels. Type in golf at the time. Start scrolling reels. Hear how people talk about golf. If you really want to get good at it. Just engulf yourself in the knowledge that.

[Jason Kelsey]

Engulf yourself.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, There you go.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's great. All right.

[Travis Kelsey]

Engulf yourself. Engulf everything.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. I think this is all good advice. I think the, the biggest thing is practice. Right. Like now, if you take anything you do. Yeah. Anything you want to get better at, you just practice at. But not just practice. You. You put practice in with a purpose. Right.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, the P and P. Take this from me.

[Jason Kelsey]

Listen, I am the third to last place finisher at the American Century Classic last year. So take my advice.

[Travis Kelsey]

I think.

[Jason Kelsey]

Take my advice. Advice. No, seriously, practice mostly with the clubs you're going to use the most. So what's. What club are you going to use the most on on a golf course?

[Travis Kelsey]

Driver.

[Jason Kelsey]

Putter. Putter. More you. If you don't three putt, you'll beat most people. If you could two putt every hole, you're going to beat most people you play with. Next club. Driver. Right. Then your wedges. Okay. Get really good at those three things and you're going to be a decent golfer. You're going to shoot a pretty good score. So go to a chip green. Get really good at chipping up and downs. And then always two putting. Dude, you're going to be golden, bubba. You're going to be sitting pretty.

[Travis Kelsey]

I can't wait. I haven't played golf with you forever. I can't wait.

[Jason Kelsey]

I feel like we should do one more. We have a notam question on the New Heights Reddit page from Tanya Dixon. 12. What do you guys think about the change in the way the downs are going to be measured? Do you prefer the chain gang or the cameras measuring them? I really don' even understand this, to be honest with you. When they say the cameras are measuring them, how are the cameras measuring them?

[Travis Kelsey]

What are we talking about here? The.

[Jason Kelsey]

Basically, the chain gang is like a secondary measurement for first downs.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, that's what, that's what they did last year, right?

[Jason Kelsey]

No, no, no. They, they. They incorporated a chip in the football last year during the preseason and they.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's what it was. It was preseason.

[Jason Kelsey]

But this isn't a chip in the football. This is. They're solely going to try and use camera technology to determine. Determine first downs. But I don't really understand how that's different than when, like, because obviously everybody's lumpy to the conclusion against the Bills game. Right. Against you guys, where it looked like Josh Allen was ahead of the first down market. I'm just. All I'm saying is I don't think.

[Travis Kelsey]

It looked like it. I think you could only assume that the, where the ball was in his arm that it may have gotten but you couldn't tell exactly.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, I'm think there's a lot of people that think you're could tell and I think a lot of people that.

[Travis Kelsey]

Think you couldn't tell.

[Jason Kelsey]

All I'm saying is I think this rule is here by and large because of that play. But I don't know what, how this is different. Like they still looked at that play on replay and saw where the ball went. So I'm just confused. I. I guess I don't really understand how they're measuring the first downs with the cameras and how when they report played them upon challenges. I don't, I don't know.

[Travis Kelsey]

I think this is just a big Sony endorsement. I think it's just they. Everybody's going to be talking about Sony Hawkeye Virtual Measurement System and this is just like a big like plug for Sony.

[Jason Kelsey]

God damn, you're right, aren't you? Why else would they give it a Sony Hawkeye? It's not a conspiracy. You're 1,000% right. I mean, it's not even a joke.

[Travis Kelsey]

This is how conspiracies work, ladies.

[Jason Kelsey]

No, it's not a conspiracy because there's no fucking chance it would be called the Sony Hawkeye Virtual Measuring System. Like it just. The only reason that that is a thing is because Sony paid out the ass to have this as a fucking thing in the NFL. How did I not see this coming? It's no, it's so true because they would have never put Sony in front of it. Yeah, well, they don't say like, hey, all these cameras are brought to you by LG camera like system that fit. No, this is 100% A. I got them going. I can't believe this. I mean I'm. I love the chain gang. I don't know why I like that it's there, this super like way outdated version of measuring first downs. I'm against the Sony Hawkeye Virtual measuring System simply because it's called the Sony Hawkeye Measuring System. Like don't fucking sell me Sony and your fucking measuring system. Just fucking say, hey, we got a virtual measuring system now. Oh cool. I don't need it to be called the Sony Hawkeye Measuring System. What are you going to be selling fucking T shirts? What the fuck are we naming it the Sony Hawkeye Measuring System for?

[Travis Kelsey]

It's the Sony Hawkeye Virtual Measuring System. Jason. They probably created the technical technology. I Digress, NFL. Sorry if I blew your cover. But also sorry to the chain gang guys. Man, we'll miss you.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, they're still going to be there. This is only chain gang. Is there as like a secondary option? I do want to know what this technology is because I'm still confused. Like, what is the Hawkeye measuring system? Virtual measuring system do exactly?

[Travis Kelsey]

Probably see through people. It's virtual. So it's like we can like turn people into video games.

[Jason Kelsey]

Tax perplexity. The system uses multiple high performance cameras, up to 10 positions strategically around the playing arena. These cameras capture the ball's movement in three different angles from different angles. Triangulation. It's a good word to use if you want to sell some shit to somebody. Sounds like something that they use like every 90s or 80s movie. Like action movie. We triangulated as coordinates to over triangulation. The captured video feeds are processed using triangulation principles. It's gibberish.

[Travis Kelsey]

They're killing it right now.

[Jason Kelsey]

To create a 3D representation of the ball's trajectory. Data anal analysis. The system tracks the ball's position frame by frame, calculates its path and predicts its future trajectory based on predefined models of the play area and game rules. Predefined models of the playing area. In game rules, Hawkeye generates graphical representations of the ball's movement which can be displayed in real time for referees and players. So I just, I don't know what Hawkeye is doing that you can't just see by looking at the camera.

[Travis Kelsey]

It's turning it virtual. Jason is turning it into a video game so that they can determine where the ball actually is, AKA they can see through people's bodies.

[Jason Kelsey]

Go up, go up. The tenants go up the tennis. Go to go up the tennis. So in 10 tennis, they can see when the ball hits the line and whether it's in or out. So obviously we've all seen that technology used and it works phenomenally. It's a great, it's a great technology for tennis.

[Travis Kelsey]

They clap whenever it does it.

[Jason Kelsey]

But the Hawkeye isn't determining where the line is. Like the line to gain is established on the field in the moment. So they're going to get the line to gain from the very first set of downs.

[Travis Kelsey]

I think that's why they still need the chain game. They need the chains to be able to be on the sideline. And that gives him. That gives them like the line.

[Jason Kelsey]

I just, I'm.

[Travis Kelsey]

It makes too much sense that this is just a Sony plug. I mean the more I read this, the more I'm just like, I guess this is gonna go to the cameras and a human's gonna look.

[Jason Kelsey]

This is. This is honestly why. What I think has happened, okay, this is just an out for referees having to make this decision. That's what this. All this means is they now have a camera that is going to tell you if the ball reached the first down mark the line or not. Okay? And that way, if the camera and the technology is wrong, nobody can fucking, like, you're not going to dispute it. Nobody ever disputes the fucking Hawkeye thing in tennis. They're just like, yep, that was in, or, nope, that was out. Hawkeye said it. That's all we're getting with this. I don't know if this thing's going to be accurate or not, but how the do you refute it? You could. You could call it like, anybody can go up there and watch a replay and be like, oh, that guy isn't looking at the right thing. I'm looking at the same thing, and that guy's full of this looks like a first down, but now you'll be looking at it, and the Hawkeye is going to tell you it's not a first down. Well, guess they triangulated it and Hawkeye found Sony wouldn't lie to us.

[Travis Kelsey]

No, they would never. Oh, man, they triangulated it. That got me. All right, that does it. For no dumb questions brought to you by Perplexity. Discover fast reliable search with perplexity today. Hey, all right, now let's get to a little March Madness challenge updates. Man, oh, man, what a final four in the men's bracket and what a very interesting women's bracket it ended up being now that it's over and UConn of ran away with it.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, it wasn't. Wasn't even close.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, I know. South Carolina had an unbelievable season. It's not fun losing the championship game like that. I can share a couple similar feelings with them on that. But the women's bracket, congrats to our winner, Matt Oliver, who would be a tiebreaker by five points. That's right.

[Jason Kelsey]

Done. Matt.

[Travis Kelsey]

Shout out. Out to Matt. Yeah. Men's bracket, we're still recording this before the final, so it's going to be one of two winners.

[Jason Kelsey]

If Florida wins, congrats to Robert Unger. And if Houston wins, congrats to Dakota Black.

[Travis Kelsey]

How about it, huh?

[Jason Kelsey]

Dakota Black. Sounds like a. Like a character in a movie.

[Travis Kelsey]

It does sound like it.

[Jason Kelsey]

That wraps up another episode of New Heights. Thank you, Brandon. Graham for joining, joining us. Make sure you're subscribed on YouTube channel and follow New Heights on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. You can listen to new episodes of New Heights early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus and the Wondery app on Apple Podcasts once again.

[Travis Kelsey]

New Heights, a wondrous show produced by Wave Sports and Entertainment and brought to you by HBO's the Last of Us. That's right. Follow the show on all social media at new height shows 1s and follow along for all the fun clips that we have from this week's episode. Thank you to our production and crew for putting those clips together and making us look way better than what we are into. The 92 percenters. We love you guys. We'll see you guys next week.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, there it is. Check out that fireman photo.

[Brandon Graham]

Look at that. Said that. That's on the fire truck.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's on the back of the fire truck.

[Brandon Graham]

And. And I think.

[Jason Kelsey]

I think that's the game. I tore my acl. I really do. I think that was the Baltimore Ravens game. Wow.

[Brandon Graham]

Hey, Kels, man, you got to get that look back, man. That look clean right there, bro.

[Travis Kelsey]

That is hilarious.

[Brandon Graham]

That's a good.

[Travis Kelsey]

I don't know if Kylie I don't know if Kylie is pulling for that one.

[Brandon Graham]

That's a good beach view right there. That's a good beach picture right there. Boy. Got the sunglasses on. It look like it's probably September.

[Travis Kelsey]

Maine right there.

[Brandon Graham]

Look like it's September training camp.

[Travis Kelsey]

Exactly.

[Jason Kelsey]

Was not good.

[Travis Kelsey]

Funny as hell. Follow New Heights on the Wonry app or wherever you get your podcast. You can listen to New Heights early and ad free, plus enjoy exclusive episodes of the show by joining Wonder plus in the Wonder app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. Today.

[Jason Kelsey]

Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey.