Joe Thomas on Skipping The Draft, Being The NFL's Iron Man & Reviewing Real Life “Quidditch” | EP 136

Summary

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce – Episode 136: Joe Thomas on Skipping The Draft, Being The NFL's Iron Man & Reviewing Real Life “Quidditch”

Release Date: April 23, 2025

In this engaging episode of "New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce," the Kelce brothers sit down with NFL Hall of Famer Joe Thomas to delve into his illustrious career, memorable draft day experiences, unique challenges as an offensive lineman, and his ventures beyond football. Hosted by Wondery, this episode offers listeners a deep dive into the life of one of Cleveland Browns' finest and explores the intersection of sports, personal resilience, and entrepreneurial spirit.

1. Joe Thomas’s Unconventional Draft Day

Joe Thomas begins by recounting his unforgettable NFL draft day. Instead of attending the bustling draft event in New York City, Thomas chose to honor a family tradition by going fishing with his father. His initial reluctance to attend the draft led to a humorous yet heartfelt negotiation with NFL officials.

Joe Thomas [21:02]: "The ironic thing about it all was I was doing it just to spend time with my dad fishing and doing something that I've loved my whole life and stay true to my roots."

Despite his initial decision, the NFL’s insistence and the high stakes of being a top draft pick eventually compelled him to comply, resulting in his selection as the third overall pick by the Cleveland Browns. This anecdote highlights Thomas’s strong family values and his ability to stay grounded amidst significant life events.

2. Navigating a Challenging Career with the Cleveland Browns

Thomas shares insights into his time with the Browns, emphasizing the struggles of playing on a team that often underperformed. He discusses the emotional toll of being part of a winless team and the consistent changes in the quarterback position, which added to the instability.

Joe Thomas [43:29]: "Losing in the NFL is so hard. You only get one chance every week, and how you feel that whole week is 100% related to whether you won or lost."

Despite these challenges, Thomas maintained a strong work ethic and a deep connection with his teammates. He highlights the camaraderie among the offensive line and the mutual support that sustained them through tough seasons. His dedication earned him the nickname "Iron Man," reflecting his remarkable endurance and commitment, evidenced by his record of 10,363 consecutive snaps played.

3. Mastering the Art of Offensive Line Play

A significant portion of the conversation delves into the technical aspects of Thomas’s role as an offensive tackle. He elaborates on his strategies to counteract formidable defensive players like James Harrison and Terrell Suggs.

Joe Thomas [34:16]: "I knew that was my advantage. So I just was really, really super conscious of picking my spot on his shoulder pads or on his bicep to be able to hit that spot and extend and keep him away from my body."

Thomas emphasizes the importance of adaptability and technical precision in his blocking techniques, which allowed him to excel despite being considered undersized compared to his peers. His ability to study and adjust his approach game-by-game was pivotal in his sustained success on the field.

4. Mentorship and Leadership Post-Retirement

Post-retirement, Thomas remains actively involved in the NFL community, particularly with the Cleveland Browns. He discusses his role in mentoring young players, sharing his extensive knowledge and experience to help the next generation of linemen.

Joe Thomas [37:19]: "I wanted to spend a lot of time with Miles and help him see the game from an offensive tackle's perspective."

His collaboration with current players and coaching staff underscores his commitment to fostering talent and maintaining a strong presence within the team’s evolving dynamics.

5. Expanding Horizons: Coaching International Football in Germany

Thomas recounts his enriching experience coaching American football in the European League of Football (ELF) in Munich, Germany. He highlights the cultural exchange and the passion European players have for the sport, despite it not being as mainstream as in the United States.

Joe Thomas [65:05]: "They are obsessed with football. They love it. They're working regular jobs, and they're obsessed with the game of football."

Through this venture, Thomas not only contributes to the growth of American football internationally but also enjoys introducing his family to new cultural experiences, such as Oktoberfest. His efforts in coaching reflect his desire to give back to the sport and inspire enthusiasm among players and fans alike.

6. Entrepreneurial Ventures: Hall of Fame Beef

Transitioning from football, Thomas introduces his entrepreneurial spirit through Hall of Fame Beef, a business focused on raising high-quality Wagyu and Angus cattle. He shares his passion for farming and his dedication to producing premium beef.

Joe Thomas [95:07]: "I think I was really, really stretching it...like, I can just do whatever I can to try to turn this thing into a winner."

Thomas’s emphasis on treating his cattle like pro athletes—focusing on genetics, nutrition, and low-stress environments—mirrors his meticulous approach on the football field. His commitment to excellence in this venture illustrates his enduring drive to succeed and innovate beyond his athletic career.

7. Reflections on the NFL and Team Dynamics

Throughout the discussion, Thomas offers candid reflections on the NFL's evolution, team management philosophies, and the impact of fan support. He touches on the psychological aspects of the game, such as the mental health challenges faced when unable to play and the importance of maintaining strong relationships within the team.

Joe Thomas [43:29]: "When you lose, you feel sick. Sick the whole week... it was really, really hard dealing with that."

His insights provide a nuanced understanding of the pressures and emotional complexities inherent in professional sports, highlighting the resilience required to navigate a career in the NFL.

Conclusion

This episode of "New Heights" offers a comprehensive look into Joe Thomas’s life, both on and off the field. From his steadfast dedication as a player to his impactful post-retirement endeavors, Thomas exemplifies perseverance, leadership, and a relentless pursuit of excellence. Listeners gain valuable perspectives on the intricacies of football, the significance of mentorship, and the rewarding challenges of entrepreneurship, all narrated through the authentic and relatable storytelling style of the Kelce brothers.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Thomas [21:02]: "The ironic thing about it all was I was doing it just to spend time with my dad fishing and doing something that I've loved my whole life and stay true to my roots."
• Joe Thomas [34:16]: "I knew that was my advantage. So I just was really, really super conscious of picking my spot on his shoulder pads or on his bicep to be able to hit that spot and extend and keep him away from my body."
• Joe Thomas [37:19]: "I wanted to spend a lot of time with Miles and help him see the game from an offensive tackle's perspective."
• Joe Thomas [65:05]: "They are obsessed with football. They love it. They're working regular jobs, and they're obsessed with the game of football."
• Joe Thomas [95:07]: "I think I was really, really stretching it...like, I can just do whatever I can to try to turn this thing into a winner."
• Joe Thomas [43:29]: "Losing in the NFL is so hard. You only get one chance every week, and how you feel that whole week is 100% related to whether you won or lost."

This detailed and structured summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and memorable moments from Episode 136, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened to the podcast.

Transcript

[Travis Kelce]

Wondry plus subscribers can listen to New Heights early and ad free, plus unlock access to exclusive episodes of the show.

[Jason Kelce]

Join Wondery plus and the Wondery app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. Today, brunch is really the best meal. There's nothing better than a good brunch. I'm a basic bitch. I like brunch.

[Travis Kelce]

You're getting a mimosa. Mimosa?

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah, more of a bloody Mary. Got.

[Travis Kelce]

You look like you just fucking house those things. It represents you very well. If you were a drink, you'd probably be a Bloody Mary. Thick, little too much spice sometimes.

[Jason Kelce]

Okay.

[Travis Kelce]

Salty, very salty.

[Jason Kelce]

You have the right amount of me. It's. It's good and you're happy about it. You have too much of me. You're like, I get. I gotta get the fo weight of these fucking bloody Marys. Hey, let's go.

[Travis Kelce]

Welcome back to New Heights, a wondrous show produced by Wave Sports Entertainment and brought to you by Suave Men. No nonsense. Self care for men. That's what Suave says. That's what they're selling to you people.

[Jason Kelce]

It's good.

[Travis Kelce]

We're your host. I'm Travis Kelsey's my big brother, Jason Kelsey out of Cleveland Heights, Ohio. Cincinnati Bearcat alum. Subscribe on YouTube 13 plus wherever you get your podcast and follow the show on all social media at New Height show with one s. Jason, did you eat breakfast today?

[Jason Kelce]

I did, I did.

[Travis Kelce]

Nice. He's in a good mood. Let the people know what we got coming up.

[Jason Kelce]

We got another great episode for you guys coming up right now. We're first going to get to the regular episode that we always give you guys a little bit of new news. Bringing back new heights film club, little NFL draft that's happening tomorrow.

[Travis Kelce]

Oh, shit. The draft is happening.

[Jason Kelce]

Well, unless some type of hurricane or natural disaster starts to strike Green Bay, they'll probably just. They'll probably just pivot to New York City, but yeah. Anyways, yes, the draft is happening tomorrow and we're going to get into it with an incredible guest, Mr. Joe Thomas. Oh, yeah, two Cleveland professional sports guys. Back to back love, man.

[Travis Kelce]

Right there. Son of a buck. I know.

[Jason Kelce]

Before we jump into it, we are going to talk a little bit about Easter weekend. That's right. We have potentially the greatest tweet ever tweeted on Easter day.

[Joe Thomas]

The.

[Jason Kelce]

This is the best thing ever.

[Travis Kelce]

This is so dumb.

[Jason Kelce]

Listen, we don't give Jesus enough shout outs for taking one for the team if we're all nervous.

[Travis Kelce]

He's a team Player.

[Jason Kelce]

He's the. The epitome of taking one for the team. He died for our sins.

[Travis Kelce]

Best leader out there.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah, he did. And then he rose three days later with a giant double bird as a scented. There's no other way. He didn't come out like that. Right. He's straight out of that freaking tomb.

[Travis Kelce]

Ye.

[Jason Kelce]

Like, he had to. There had to be, like, some Ray Lewis or wwe. Like he didn't just walk out there with his sandals with no swag. Like, you rise after three days. You're coming out there with the greatest freaking entrance of all time.

[Travis Kelce]

Somebody broke some glass, and he just rose out of the ground right out of nowhere. They had a guitar back then. They just.

[Jason Kelce]

They slammed a bottle of wine down. He. He's got a table. Here comes Jesus with the table. I don't believe what I just saw.

[Joe Thomas]

This is epic.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah. This shot. This old tweet. Famously old tweet from Travis Kelsey. Happy Easter. To all shout out to Jesus for taking one for the team. My favorite part of it is the ha at the end.

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah. Well, I didn't. I wanted to make sure everybody knew I was having a good time joking about this, but I couldn't take it too serious.

[Jason Kelce]

He died for our sins so that we can sin without having any type of ramifications for it.

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah. And we get school off. It's a holiday. It's no school.

[Jason Kelce]

Was that why this was tweeted?

[Travis Kelce]

Of course.

[Jason Kelce]

I thought it was, like, a realization that this guy died for our sins.

[Travis Kelce]

It's a free day.

[Jason Kelce]

It was just about the free day. That's so good. It's great.

[Travis Kelce]

Wait, no. Easter's on Sunday, so.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah, but usually you'll get an Easter Monday. Sometimes our girls are off. Easter Monday.

[Travis Kelce]

Oh, Good Friday. That's what it was. Yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

All right.

[Jason Kelce]

And now it's time for new new new new news. We're bringing it back.

[Joe Thomas]

That's right.

[Jason Kelce]

New Heights Film Club, brought to you by Reese's and their new peanut butter and jelly cups. Holy shit.

[Travis Kelce]

Ooh. PB and jelly cups. What color? What flavor? Jelly.

[Jason Kelce]

Did I. Guys. Did you guys give me.

[Travis Kelce]

Why don't we have these?

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah. I want to be able to try these.

[Travis Kelce]

I want to. You gave us. Have they came out yet?

[Jason Kelce]

Could somebody answer me? Who's in charge of our brand placement stuff?

[Travis Kelce]

I'm trying.

[Joe Thomas]

I'm sure they're on their way.

[Travis Kelce]

I'm sure the good people at Reese's.

[Joe Thomas]

Are shipping them as we speak. It's grape jelly, by the way.

[Jason Kelce]

It's Grape jelly. Well, I'm a grape jelly guy. There we go. Are you a grape jelly? Are you a strawberry jelly guy? Brandon?

[Travis Kelce]

Grape.

[Jason Kelce]

So this is where I do think there's better than grape. BlackBerry is very good. You know what's very underrated is raspberry, raspberry jam. Raspberry has, like, a nice tartness to it. I don't even like raspberries. Don't like raspberry juice, cranberry, or whatever the fuck that shit is. But raspberry jam, God damn. It's got just a really nice tartness to it. It's very good. Do you have a grandfather clock?

[Travis Kelce]

No, but I do want to get one.

[Jason Kelce]

That noise was a grandfather clock. I mean, it's trash. We had one growing up. I know what a grandfather clock sounds like. That was a grandfather.

[Travis Kelce]

We never wound it, though. So it never went off.

[Jason Kelce]

Oh, it did for a little bit. It worked for a while until we stopped bumping into it.

[Travis Kelce]

It still works.

[Jason Kelce]

Does it?

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelce]

Is that the original clock that I just heard?

[Travis Kelce]

No, Jason, I'm not.

[Jason Kelce]

All right, we are way off topic. New Heights Film Club. We're back 92% as we do. Need some help picking movies. As always, we listen. It's the off season.

[Travis Kelce]

It is the off season.

[Jason Kelce]

We gotta find ways. We gotta find ways to keep busy, you know what I mean?

[Joe Thomas]

Football.

[Jason Kelce]

There's a draft coming up this week. Thank God there's something to fucking talk about. So we got the draft. After that, you know, I think we're in the middle of baseball season.

[Travis Kelce]

Baseball season.

[Jason Kelce]

There's great playoffs happening right now. NBA, NHL, NHL. Shout out to Cleveland. There we go.

[Travis Kelce]

Let's go, Cavs, baby. One and, oh. Hopefully get two and, oh, tonight.

[Jason Kelce]

Yep, that'd be big. So I thought we were going to choose between baseball movies or sports movies in general. I kind of like limiting it to baseball. Baseball movies to start. Then maybe go in sports movies. Yeah, let's go baseball first. Does that sound good?

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah. Let's go baseball. Let's give them. Let's. Let's do our top four.

[Jason Kelce]

It's baseball season. Spring is here. Sun's out. Feels like baseball time. What do we got to narrow it down to four? Do we go with iconic movies or do we go with movies that would be fun to rewatch, ones that we might not have seen since you've been older? Because, I mean, like, Sandlot's the greatest baseball movie of all time.

[Travis Kelce]

That and Major League, to me, are the top two.

[Jason Kelce]

Major League. God damn. Major League is so Good. Fuck. Major League is good.

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah, it is.

[Jason Kelce]

Completely different films, but both very good. Another movie that was really awesome and I'd be curious to watch it now that I'm older is Bull Durham. Because I feel like I was too young to really comprehend it and be fun. It'd be fun to rewatch it.

[Travis Kelce]

I fucking love that one from the get go.

[Jason Kelce]

I loved it. I'm not saying I didn't love it, but I think it's one of those movies you're going to watch now as an adult, then you're going to think it's like 10 times funnier or like better because you're going to be able to relate more to the characters and what they're going through. Field of Dreams. I mean, I don't know. There's a better feel good movie than Field of Dreams.

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah. League of Their Own. Oh, man.

[Jason Kelce]

League of Their Own. Sneaky Tom Hanks as two siblings. As two siblings. I think, you know, Dottie prevails for most of the movie and then loses it at the end to the younger sister whose name escapes me now. But if we're being honest, Dottie dropped the ball on purpose, right?

[Travis Kelce]

I guess, yeah.

[Jason Kelce]

Do you think that happened?

[Travis Kelce]

No, it couldn't have.

[Jason Kelce]

Do you think she did? They don't really tell you. I like movies that don't leave it up for interpretation.

[Travis Kelce]

Well, I mean, yeah, she literally like let the ball go out of her hand.

[Jason Kelce]

Well, I mean, catchers, people drop balls all the time.

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah, well, maybe she was actually illegal. Now you can't do that.

[Jason Kelce]

Well, yeah, well, it wasn't then just like Brian Dawkins taking off people's heads over the middle. That. That was legal then. No crying in baseball. There is crying. There is crying in New Heights. No, crying in baseball. Is crying in New Heights.

[Travis Kelce]

Bad News Bears is another one we might want to throw up there.

[Jason Kelce]

Which one? Which one you going? You going Billy Bob or you going Original?

[Travis Kelce]

Probably Billy Bob.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah, the Billy Bob one is electric.

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelce]

So which four are we going with?

[Travis Kelce]

You said Bull Durham. So we'll do Bull Durham, Field of Dreams. We throw that one in there. No.

[Jason Kelce]

League of Their Own.

[Travis Kelce]

League of Their Own. Bull Durham. League of Their Own.

[Jason Kelce]

Get two very similar movies. Cool. Do we go Major League?

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah, throw Major league in there for. For the fun shit.

[Jason Kelce]

The rookie's a great one, but again, it's, you know, it's another one that's like. Real Rookie of the Year is hilarious.

[Travis Kelce]

I haven't seen that one in a long time.

[Jason Kelce]

So Rookie of the Year is the one where he actually pitches. What's the one where he just takes over the team as, like a GM but doesn't actually play? Do you remember that one? There's another one that was just, like, fucking so stupid. But it was great.

[Travis Kelce]

I say either sand. Louder. Rookie of the Year. Which one?

[Jason Kelce]

Little Big League was the one? I was thinking sandlot or Rookie of the Year. If it's between those two, it's sandlot. I mean, as much as I think Rookie of the Year is great, sandlot's the iconic movie of baseball. And they tried to recreate it, which, I mean, big mistake. You can't recreate a movie like that. Like, who's playing Chunk? Like. Or. I'm sorry, who's playing God damn Chunk? Yeah. No, wrong movie, Jason. Yeah, you can't recreate that movie. I think that's it. I think it's Sandlot. Bull Durham, League of Their Own, Major League. That's a good four to choose from.

[Travis Kelce]

I love it. I'm excited to watch any of these. I haven't seen them in a while. Let's. Let's hear it. 92 percenters.

[Jason Kelce]

We're going to drop this poll on Social for you guys to vote, and we'll let you know when that review is coming. Once again, New Heights Film Club is brought to you by Reese's and their new peanut butter and jelly cups. Can't wait to try those out.

[Travis Kelce]

All right, now we got some more new news. Jason discovered televised Quidditch. That's right, Jason, big Harry Potter guy. He read every book when he was little.

[Jason Kelce]

And, well, they weren't all out when I was little. I started reading when I was little. Progressed to being a full grown adult. Reading children's books. Yes.

[Travis Kelce]

Well, you were tweeting that ESPN News had Quidditch games on tv.

[Jason Kelce]

This is correct. They did have. So they were calling it Quad Ball. I firmly against it being called Quad Ball. That's fucking Quidditch. What's happening was they had a stick between their legs. Legs. Do you know what Quidditch is?

[Travis Kelce]

No, but it sounds like hobby horsing.

[Jason Kelce]

It was the exact same thing as hobby horsing. Just now. They're playing a game with the ball, and instead of pretending like they're riding horses, they're pretending like they're riding brooms. So Quidditch, you play it on brooms in the Wizarding World, and then there's three rings. You try and throw the quaffle through one of the rings, and that gets your points. Okay, There are two bow. Two balls that are like, they try and attack you and there's guys called beaters with bats that hit the balls at you. Trying to remember what those balls were called. Beaters. Bruisers Brown. Anyways, those balls are kind of like you're hitting them at them with baseball bats. Bold Bludgers. Bludgers. All right. The last bit of Quidditch is really there's. There's also goaltenders protecting these rings. There is a little thing called a snitch, which is a golden ball with wings and it flies around. It's really hard to catch. And there is a seeker for each team that tries to catch the snitch. If you catch a snitch, I Forget. It's like 100 points or something like that. So basically, in the real Quidditch, whoever catches the snitch wins the game most frequently.

[Travis Kelce]

So it has nothing to do. So you. Why do people even try and throw in the rings?

[Jason Kelce]

Well, there is like a little bit of. If you're over 100 points, you would be in a conundrum of if you're losing, you wouldn't want to catch the snitch because the game's over if the snitch is caught. So if you catch a snitch, you'll get 100 points, but you'll still be losing points wise. It's just usually that wasn't the case in the books. Usually Harry just caught the snitch and he won the game. The real life version of this has men and women. It is a. What's that called when men and women play the same sport?

[Travis Kelce]

Co ed.

[Jason Kelce]

It's a co ed sport. They have a stick between their legs. Big problem I had was that it was not an actual broom. If we're going to do this make believe stuff and bring it to life, I want a real broom wizard clothes. I don't want regular jerseys and a make believe stick.

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah. If we're gonna larp, you gotta. You gotta go full go.

[Jason Kelce]

Exactly. Somebody responded and said that the bristles were causing like chafing or irritation. Don't give a. You gotta. That's something you gotta deal with. Wear some compressor shorts. Yeah, I don't want to hear that nonsense. Put a goddamn broom between your legs. Otherwise what are we even doing? Right. They still have the quaffle. People were throwing that through goaltender instead of the beaters beating with bats. They had the balls. They were playing dodgeball. Right. So they could just hit people with the ball whenever they wanted to. Which was pretty fun. The funniest goddamn part of this whole thing. The snitch was just a person with a yellow shirt on and the word snitch written down his clothes. And he had a towel in the back. And in order to catch the snitch, you had to get the towel off of the guy's back. The flag.

[Travis Kelce]

You get 100 points for grabbing somebody's towel.

[Jason Kelce]

Well, it was different in the. In quad ball or real life Quidditch made up word. The. You only get 30 points, so the snitch is worth way less. So not as. Not as fun. I think if I played, I'd get that snitch in a heartbeat. That guy was struggling. He was getting, like, passed off. The guy, the seeker that was trying to get it was just getting pass blocked, and he, like, had no moves. Like, dude, fucking. You got to get a little swim and a fucking get his hands off of you. It was embarrassing. He was getting. It took him a long time to get that snitch.

[Travis Kelce]

You sat here and watched this.

[Jason Kelce]

Honestly, it was the most fun I've had watching a sport in a long time. It was fantastic. And I want to participate.

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah. All right.

[Jason Kelce]

But we're going real broom. I'm going Nimbus 2000. I think it's Nimbus 2000.

[Travis Kelce]

What is that?

[Jason Kelce]

Don't worry. It's a really good broom. It's a. It's the best.

[Travis Kelce]

Oh, nice. Yeah.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah. So anyways, that's what I did this weekend while I was watching espn.

[Travis Kelce]

Jason, not a joke. You have been invited to quad ball nationals happening in Richmond, Virginia.

[Jason Kelce]

I mean, listen, I don't know when it is, but if I can make it, that's not that far. I would love to potentially play. Is there, like, an exhibition before the nationals game that I can partake in? I would love to try and get out there on a broom and see what I can do. I've always wanted to play.

[Travis Kelce]

Sweet nerd. All right, Here we go. April 26th, 27th. So get ready. It's like two weeks.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah, it's pretty soon. It's coming. That's this weekend.

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah. And the last bit of new news.

[Jason Kelce]

Would be, unfortunately, I won't be able to make it.

[Travis Kelce]

But thank you to everyone who voted for the 2025 Webby Awards. New Heights took home the award for best video series and was honored for best co host.

[Jason Kelce]

So there we go.

[Travis Kelce]

Nice. So we aren't really the talent here. Our editing team is the talent here. So thank you guys for voting and shout out to our. Our team that edits all the video stuff because you guys just won a webby. And that does it for new news. Hey, let's get to this Joe Thomas interview. Cleveland's finest. He's not from Cleveland, but he is Cleveland's finest.

[Jason Kelce]

I mean, he was there for long enough.

[Travis Kelce]

He counts Wisconsin's finest. Big, big shout out to our sponsor, Suave Men's Deodorant. New and built to handle serious sweat. And it's under three bucks without breaking the bank. And the new Suave Men's deodorant comes in three killer cents and is loaded with sweat fighting ingredients that actually hold up through the real life.

[Jason Kelce]

What are your sweaty situations you deal with, Travis?

[Travis Kelce]

As soon as I get dehydrated, I'll drink coffee and start sweating, leaking out of my pits.

[Jason Kelce]

Dehydrated? How do you sweat if you're dehydrated? If you're dehydrated, you have nothing to sweat. You got to be hydrated. Sweat.

[Travis Kelce]

If I drink coffee or I drink something that's going to dehydrate me, like beer or alcohol or anything like that, like, I immediately start sweating.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah, I agree with you. Beer is. Is a big one. Are you. Are you more of an armpit sweater or an ass sweater?

[Travis Kelce]

Armpit.

[Jason Kelce]

Me too.

[Joe Thomas]

All right.

[Jason Kelce]

Okay. Well, anyways, whatever your sweaty moment is, it's handled with Suave because it has.

[Travis Kelce]

More sweat fighting power than the number one brand available now at retailers nationwide.

[Jason Kelce]

Thank you to our partner, Reese's and their new peanut butter and jelly cups, which we are really looking forward to.

[Travis Kelce]

Trying out in strawberry and grape. Now for a limited time only, the iconic PB&J taste we all grew up with. Plus Reese's Cups, the greatest candy in the world. That's an instant must have right there.

[Jason Kelce]

And they're only for a limited time. That's right. You gotta go now. Go fast because they're going fast. That's right. Reese's Peanut butter and Jelly. A complete candy. No brainer.

[Travis Kelce]

No brainer indeed. Reese's is always trying new combinations. Could this be the best one yet, Jason? I'm probably going to lean towards grape every time.

[Jason Kelce]

It's interesting because I feel like strawberry pairs better with chocolate. Like chocolate covered strawberries is the thing. Chocolate covered grapes isn't. So like peanut butter and jelly to me is always peanut butter and grape jelly. Strawberry might be something that would taste good with a Reese's peanut butter jelly cup. So get into the greatness of not just one, but two new Reese's peanut butter and jelly cups and Strawberry and grape. Decide which one you love most or just fall in love with both of them.

[Travis Kelce]

Get them while you can because they're here for a limited time only. Reese's new peanut butter and jelly cups. That's right. What's your jam found? Wherever candy is sold.

[Jason Kelce]

Now a moment brought to you by American Express.

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah, Jason, what do you look forward to on a trip?

[Jason Kelce]

I look forward to food. I look forward to fun. Having fun outside the hotel. I look forward to what is the hotel like and how's the bed.

[Travis Kelce]

Well, Jason, all of those things you can get with American Express, no matter what kind of traveler you are. The American Express Platinum card offers a range of benefits designed to enhance your journey, Jason.

[Jason Kelce]

Like enjoying access to Centurion lounges at airports nationwide or or worldwide even. Or when you book fine hotels and resorts through Amex Travel, you can receive complimentary breakfast for two and guaranteed 4pm checkout.

[Travis Kelce]

Gotta love that. Plus, with global dining access by resy, you'll have the ability to secure reservations at some of the finest dining establishments around the globe when you add your Platinum card to your RESI profile.

[Jason Kelce]

That's the powerful backing of American Express.

[Travis Kelce]

Yes. Yes, it is.

[Jason Kelce]

For terms and to learn more, visit american express.com withamics. There's tons of things you can bundle with it. It's not just a credit card that allows you to pay for things. There's a lot of deals. There's plenty of things to go on. There's interactive ways that you can interact in the real world with it. So you should go get one, maybe.

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelce]

There he is. Perfect.

[Joe Thomas]

What a warm welcome, my friends.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah. Looking good. What's up, dude?

[Joe Thomas]

What's up, guys? How we doing today?

[Travis Kelce]

Jason's trying his hardest to. To pull off the Joe Thomas, have a Hall of Fame career and then just turn into an action figure afterwards.

[Joe Thomas]

Dude. Dude, look at that guy. You've made me extraordinarily jealous with them guns showing up on my screen. I'm going to call the cops here in a second.

[Jason Kelce]

This dangerous.

[Joe Thomas]

Holy shit.

[Travis Kelce]

So good.

[Jason Kelce]

What you got going on?

[Joe Thomas]

Not much. Just out at the farm today, you know, doing the cattle thing, Hanging out and enjoying some beautiful weather. Getting read, heading up to Green Bay for the draft. So nice. Busy week.

[Travis Kelce]

Nice.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah, baby.

[Jason Kelce]

Let's talk about it. Love that.

[Joe Thomas]

Let's do it. Let's talk.

[Travis Kelce]

All right, here we go, Jason.

[Jason Kelce]

Alrighty. Our guest today is NFL hall of famer from Brookfield, Wisconsin. 10 time Pro Bowler, 6 time first team all pro NFL 2010's all decade team. A member of the Cleveland Browns ring of honor, the record holder for most consecutive snaps played with 10,363. God damn 92 percenters. Please welcome NFL legend, Mr. Joe Calaber. What's up, guys? Hey, hey, hey, hey.

[Joe Thomas]

Thank you for having me on. It's a true pleasure to be here with Cleveland's two finest gentlemen of all time. I'm so happy to be here and have a chance to chat it up with my boys, who we have got a little bit of a long history together. So this is great that we get a chance to chill and hopefully those guns that you're showing me here on the screen, Jason, don't jump through and shoot me. I'd like to make it to the draft this weekend.

[Jason Kelce]

So I know, I know you're being funny here, but you're covering yours up. You got some guns under there. I know you do.

[Travis Kelce]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah, baby. How much. How much weight did you lose right away when you retired?

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah. So watching a bunch of guys that had done it before me, I knew, like, hey, I'm either going to lose this weight right now or I'm going to go the other way and be like 4, 400 pounds. So I lost like 60 pounds, I think, in the first six months after I retired.

[Jason Kelce]

60 pounds, golly. And you did that keto, right? I think I remember talking to you before.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, we chatted a little bit after you retired, and I. I was like, hey, what's the fastest way to do it? You know, I talked to our nutritionist a bunch in Cleveland and, you know, reading online, trying to figure out, okay, you know, how do I do this quickly? Because I would like to feel better. A big reason why I retired, even though I tore my tricep my last season, it was really because I had a real bad knee. And the doctor was like, hey, man, you need to lose some weight. And for every pound you lose, it's basically three less pounds that goes through that knee. So the faster you can get it off, the better that knee is going to feel. And I felt horrible, like, walking down the stairs on my butt, like, going backwards. Like I was. I was hurting a lot.

[Travis Kelce]

Oh, man.

[Joe Thomas]

I think I only practiced, like, three times my last season in the NFL because I just couldn't do it right. So I wanted that knee to feel better so it was easy to get that weight off quick.

[Jason Kelce]

Well, that's what 10,000 snaps in the NFL consecutive will do to you. I mean, it's going to be hard.

[Joe Thomas]

On the joint yeah.

[Jason Kelce]

What is. So how does the knee feel? Good now?

[Joe Thomas]

It's great. Yeah. It was weird because, you know, just playing left tackle, you get, like, very specific joint issues. Playing for sure. Sort of offset, you know, one leg forward. Yeah, exactly. Always turning like that. So I have, like, bulging discs all on the right side of my back. I've got. I just had my right hip replaced and my left knee. The outside of my left knee was really like shredded cheese. So that was really the issue that was causing all sorts of pain was just being in that stance, that stance that I always kind of had with my left leg really tucked up under it. And so now that I don't do those left tackle things anymore, like, I can function very normally and my knee feels great.

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelce]

Did you say you had your right hip replaced?

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah, like, three weeks ago. What?

[Jason Kelce]

Why? What happened?

[Travis Kelce]

Already back working on the farm. This guy.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelce]

Football.

[Joe Thomas]

Hey, the cattle ain't waiting for anybody, man. How does it feel? It's feeling great, actually. Like, I. I did a couple posts on my Instagram because, you know, a lot of people have hip problems and they're kind of putting off the hip replacement. But all the players that I talked to that had gotten hip replacements early in their 40s were like, dude, do it right now. Because it's like three, four weeks, you'll be back on your feet. You'll be doing most of the normal stuff. Six weeks about perfect health, and you will never look back because really, basically the rest of your life, you'll never have to deal with those hip problems that you had. So it's been even better than I kind of anticipated day one, walking around, and now I'm three weeks out and chasing after cattle a little bit and chasing the kids at home. So it's been awesome.

[Travis Kelce]

Hell, yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

Let's go, baby.

[Travis Kelce]

Let's go back to where it started. Well, I guess where the NFL started. You mentioned you were going to the draft in Green Bay, Wisconsin, Wisconsin, Badger himself. Since the draft is tomorrow, what was your draft day like? We know you. You jumped on the water. You went fishing with the family. Right? I remember. I remember that day in 2007. Washington. Because Cleveland was our. Like, back in 07 was our team. You know what I mean? That's our. That's our pride and joy right there. So we knew the. The story and everything, but tell us a little bit about why you did the. The boat and instead of going to New York City and how. How fun it was to be on the water.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah. You guys were in short Pants there back in Cleveland with your full Browns gear on and hell, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was awesome. So I really never had grown up watching the draft because, you know, when I was a kid, like, the draft, maybe it was on tv, but I couldn't find it. I mean, I didn't have cable, so I never watched the draft and dreamed of that moment. Of course, as a kid, I wanted to play in the NFL, but to me, the draft was just like getting the answer, you know, the. The results of your test in science class where it's like, hey, you either did a good job or you didn't do a good job. And then, you know, this is where your life's going to go from there. And so I always had a tradition on Saturdays as a kid growing up that I would go fishing with my dad. Like, that was our thing. That was our time together.

[Travis Kelce]

So cool, man.

[Joe Thomas]

And you go through the whole pre draft process, right? So you got the combine and the workouts, and you do all these things. You don't have a whole lot of time for regular life. And then the draft comes, and you have a very, very small window before they whisk you away to wherever team drafts you, and you got OTAs and minicamp. You go right into training camp. So this is like your only little window to reconnect with family and friends before you're pretty much disconnected for like a year.

[Jason Kelce]

Right?

[Joe Thomas]

And so I always had it in my mind, like, hey, I got a little time. I'm gonna go fishing. Like, I don't have to be anywhere right now. He's in the barn as far as training and stuff. So I was going to go fishing. And then at that time, they invited five players to the draft, so they would kind of pick the top five guys that they thought it was.

[Jason Kelce]

Only five.

[Joe Thomas]

Only five, right.

[Jason Kelce]

Wow.

[Travis Kelce]

Very interesting.

[Joe Thomas]

So I didn't even really think about, like, hey, they might ask me to come. I knew I was going to be a high draft pick. But Bill Brandt, the Hall of Fame scout from the Dallas Cowboys, he was in charge at that time of being able to decide, all right, you know, who's going to go to the draft, who's coming, right? So he calls me up and he's like, hey, Joe, congratulations. I want to let you know that you're going to be going to New York for the draft. You know, we'll get somebody in touch that can do the logistics, but we want you to fly out there, like, on Wednesday, and then you got this thing to do and that thing to do. Make sure you get a couple pairs of suits and. And. And then, like, Saturday is the big day, and you can be. You know, bring a couple of your family members and get to go on stage with Roger Goodell and all this stuff. And he was hyping it up, like, I was going to be all excited. And there was a big pause on the phone, and I was just like, hey, bad news, Gil, but I already got plans on Saturday. I'm going fishing with my dad.

[Jason Kelce]

I'm going fishing.

[Joe Thomas]

He was like, wait.

[Jason Kelce]

Wait a minute.

[Joe Thomas]

Nobody's ever said no to the draft. He didn't even comprehend it, just the way I didn't comprehend ever going to the draft, right? And I think he was like, all right, just a minute. I'll be right back to you. You know, and I think he probably, like, called up the people in the draft, and, you know, at that time, they were trying to make a big show out of it, right? So they needed the actors to show up for the show.

[Travis Kelce]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

And so he calls back the next time, and he's like, hey, Joe, I know you said you have plans, but we really need you there. You know, we got the TV there. You got an opportunity to market yourself. Get your face out there to NFL fans and corporations where you can, you know, do some stuff and start making some money. And I go, hey, Gil, I'm an offensive lineman. I don't exactly think that I'm gonna make any money marketing or endorsements. Have you looked at me? I'm like, if I make money in the NFL, it's for how I play. So thank you for the offer, but I'm really not interested. So he was, again, taken aback. So then he calls back, like, a day later, and he's like, hey, you know, we really need you there. Like, some scouts have been talking that you're prima donna, that you don't want to go to the draft. It's really gonna hurt your draft.

[Travis Kelce]

And at that point, the prima donna from Wisconsin.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jason Kelce]

Okay. The prima donna going fishing with his dad.

[Joe Thomas]

Y. Sorry. I want to spend some time with my dad.

[Travis Kelce]

Get the out of here. That's such a joke.

[Joe Thomas]

So he's, like, trying to play that, and you guys know how it is. Like, us as athletes, I think generally, like, we try to be kind people because we were always the biggest kid in the class. You know, we didn't want to, like, beat anybody up, get in trouble, you know, unless we had to. But when we had to, like, we were going to throw some down, and it was going to happen. And now all of a sudden, it's like, me, you.

[Jason Kelce]

You know, So I was like, all.

[Joe Thomas]

Right, I'm definitely not going, because you're trying to pull this prima donna. And so, like, don't even call me back. I'm not interest. Like, don't waste my time anymore. I don't want to waste your time. So I called my agent, and I'm like, look, I'm not going. And he's like, well, I totally get it. It's no problem. But we just need to make sure whatever you do that day, you need to have cell service, because we need to be able to call you.

[Jason Kelce]

It's important.

[Joe Thomas]

As you guys remember, maybe on your draft day, I think you probably did. Like, they want to call you and talk and just make sure. Have you been arrested?

[Jason Kelce]

Make sure you haven't gotten hurt and nothing's happened last second?

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah, exactly. Like everybody. Not everybody. A lot of people party a little bit, you know, the night before their draft. They got family, friends, or whatever. They want to make sure everything is the same. You know, you're not in handcuffs. You know, nothing's happened. And so I was like, all right, I can make that concession. I'll fish close enough to the cell phone towers that I. And I can talk to the. Whoever drafts me. And so he's like, okay, great. I'll handle it from here. Like, you don't need to stress about this anymore. And so, like, I didn't hear from him for a while, like, few weeks. And my agent, he handled it. Peter Schaefer did a great job. And then, like, finally, I think Gil came around and understood, like, he ain't coming to the draft. So I finally got a call, like, hey, I'm sorry about that. You know, don't worry. You don't have to come to the draft. It's okay. You can go fishing with your dad. And it was kind of like, yeah, he was trying to smooth things over again. So that's the story I ended up going fishing with. My dad got drafted third overall by the Browns. And the ironic thing about it all was I was doing it just to spend time with my dad, get away from the cameras and stuff. And, like, didn't want to make a deal about it or a big story. But now it's like, every time the draft comes up, that's what people want to talk about.

[Jason Kelce]

The funny thing is, is that this made so much more headlines for the NFL doing this than going to that. Like, how. How relatable is in. First of all, like, do you know how much this entrenched you right away in Cleveland, Midwest? And it's like this dude's going fishing with his dad and telling New York to off. Yeah, sign us up for this guy right now. There's so. There's so relatable for so many people out there, right? Like, this guy's having the. The pinnacle of his entire athletic career is about to happen. He's about to realize his dream and play in the NFL. And how's he going to do it? He's going to do. He's going to have a moment with his dad fishing and doing something that he's loved his whole life and stay true to his roots. So good on you. How was the day, though? What'd we catch?

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah, what we catch?

[Jason Kelce]

Were the waters good by the cell towers, or were we, you know, enough to.

[Travis Kelce]

We made it work.

[Joe Thomas]

And, you know, the humble brag in me says, you know, I didn't have to wait too long. So the fishing trip was not as likely as long for some other people because I got drafted third overall. So we ended up catching a couple brown trout, which I thought was kind of cool. Nice brownies. And then the Browns draft you. And the only downside of being drafted early was they cut the fishing trip short. And then my agent did step in. He's like, hey, look, you got to go to Cleveland now. And, like, they're going to bring their jet. Like, Randy Lerner was the owner at the time. He's like, like, they're gonna fly to you. Like Walkshaw, Wisconsin, tiny little airport. They're gonna pick you up, they're gonna turn around, take you to Cleveland, because you do need to finally get a suit. Put your suit on, go to Cleveland. They need to have this introductory press conference. It'll be great. You'll love it. And so I brought my. I think my fiance at the time, Annie, and then my parents and stuff, and we flew out and did all, like, the dog and pony show and stuff. And in the end, it turned out it worked out a lot better for me and the NFL, like you mentioned, because, you know, what's better for the NFL than, like, hey, there's some down home guys that are shunning the spotlight, that just want to be all about football and family.

[Jason Kelce]

Absolutely.

[Travis Kelce]

Hell, yeah.

[Jason Kelce]

Bait and tackle. You fly fishermen, what's your. What's your preferred fishing style?

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah, so I love all fishing. My favorite type of fishing is like bobber fishing, honestly, or like little jigging. You know, I grew up pan fishing and going On Lake Erie, when I was playing for the Browns, like, I would go out every chance I got, and if I could cast for walleyes. Like drifting cast or like, throwing. Yeah. Like the old eerie dearies and stuff like that. Like, anytime I can be connected to my bait, where I'm feeling that hit, that strike.

[Jason Kelce]

Yes.

[Joe Thomas]

To me, that's fishing. Like, I. I do a bunch of trolling, and that's how you. You collect meat if you're out on Lake Erie. You troll for walleye, you troll for steel.

[Jason Kelce]

Correct. Yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

It's not as much fun.

[Jason Kelce]

Just really, you're going for trophy fish, big fish. You got a troll. But, yeah, it's definitely. I hate trolling, if I'm being honest. I've only done it one time. It's not my style.

[Travis Kelce]

No.

[Jason Kelce]

I like feeling it. So I remember watching your draft day highlights, because I. Obviously, we were both Cleveland fans.

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelce]

We had the third pick. We're all geared up like, who are we going to take? And everybody kind of knew we were going to go after you. There was all these highlights of, like, not only is he strong, but he's out here on a receiver screen kicking out a court. Like, there was athleticism showed.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelce]

What is your prototypical lineman that you think of? Like, if you're evaluating guys coming out of college, what is the. Like, the tackle? What are the traits that you think every, like, a premier tackle should have?

[Joe Thomas]

Well, it was interesting because, like, the late 90s to me was like, the golden era of offensive tackles like Jonathan Ogden, Walter Jones. Like, there was Willie Rolfe. There was such a big group of enormous human beings that were 350, 360, and they were great athletes. They were ballerina on their feet, and nobody got through them. And they were great run blockers. And I always kind of saw myself as an undersized tackle, great athlete. I could move. But the thing that I had to learn the most when I got to the NFL was how to stop the bull rush. Right. Because you got guys like DeMarcus Ware screaming off the edge, Terrell Suggs screaming off the edge, James Harrison, they're trying to run you over. Right.

[Travis Kelce]

Especially as a rookie.

[Joe Thomas]

Like, they want to see if you can have any lead in your ass and you can already stop the bull rush. Right. And so I got a lot of that early on in my career, and it took a little while to figure out how to react, see the bull rush, to sit quick, but also to be light enough where you could react to that second move. But to me, if I'M looking at like today's NFL. I'm like, Trent Williams is like the prototypical, like the best. If I could look and have the athleticism and the strength and power of Trent Williams, that'd be perfect, like 325, but still running that 4, 8, still running that 4, 3 pro agility, like, oh, my gosh, to me, that is exactly what you want in a tackle. But you're seeing a lot smaller tackles nowadays than when I first got in the NFL. I think because it's much more of an open game. Right. There's, there's not as much of a focus on can you grind people out in the run game.

[Travis Kelce]

Let's talk about a little bit of what you're doing in, in Green Bay for the, for the Browns. You're. You're announcing the Browns second round pick.

[Joe Thomas]

That's right. I'm pumped. You know, have you, have you kind.

[Travis Kelce]

Of stayed around the organization? You mentioned you were in Germany last year, but have you kind of stayed around the organization in terms of, I don't know, just kind of keeping the, keeping the relationships and, and getting around Cleveland when you can?

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah. So even though Kevin Stefanski is a coach that I never played for, I have a really good relationship with a lot of the coaching staff. Andrew Berry, the gm, he was actually an assistant GM when I was there, so a little relationship there and obviously relationship with the Hasms and a lot of the people that are still there in the organization. And when I retired, I was like, you know what? It's, it would be really hard to transition to a post career without having football in my life, without having the Cleveland Browns in my life. And so I. They were really lucky. Sorry. I was really lucky. They were willing to open up a space on the media side for me. So I do their preseason games. I do a radio show during the week with them after their, after their games. And then throughout the season, I just do, like, fun content with them. Right. Which is fun more than anything, just staying plugged in and going out there for a week in training camp every year, which gives me the opportunity to be able to do a little bit of that media stuff, but also get in there, watch practice, meet the guys, maybe give some coaching points to a few of the players and, you know, try to just give some of that wisdom that I've learned all throughout those years to the guys that, you know, I really want to have that success throughout their career.

[Travis Kelce]

You got to pass it along, man. Was there anybody when you came into the league that was like, the one giving that wisdom, whether they were on the team or just kind of a phone a friend type deal.

[Joe Thomas]

I was really lucky because when I was a rookie in Cleveland, a lot of the linemen were older guys. And, you know, one of the guys that really, really helped me was Hank Fraley. He was our singer. Yeah. Old bag of donuts, if you're an old. Sorry. Honey Buns winners from Honey Barns. Yeah, Honey Buns. That was him. And he was so helpful, Right. Because center, he was really, really smart. He understood technique. He played with Trey Thomas and John Runyon and in Philly, and those guys are two all Pro Pro bowl tackles that he learned a lot from. But he was also super smart, like, super cerebral. And so he helped me see the big picture because that's what you have to do as a center, and when you come in as a tackle, especially a rookie, like, I'm just trying to figure out who the fuck I'm supposed to block. I'm not worried about everybody else, but understanding through his eyes. When you see the big picture, it makes you. The puzzle that you're trying to put together on every play. It makes it so much easier. So even though I don't know exactly what I'm supposed to do, like, I can use deductive reasoning if I see the big picture to be able to figure out, okay, how does this work together? Right. And it just makes your brain work faster when you're reacting on the field.

[Travis Kelce]

Context clues. Yep.

[Jason Kelce]

I remember when Hank went in there, when he was in Cleveland, who was the center? So he came in the starter guy. Was it Fain?

[Joe Thomas]

Was it Lacharles Bentley? I think Charles first, but Lacharles with a huge free agent signing, right? All pro, best center in the league, and he comes into Cleveland first, walkthrough the first, like, first thing of training camp, and he blows out his patellar tendon and never played another down of football again. Just a terrible story.

[Travis Kelce]

Damn.

[Jason Kelce]

And he was a hometown hero because he went to St. Ignatius. Like, he was from the Cleveland area. Had come back. It was. And. But, yeah, Hank played pretty dang good.

[Joe Thomas]

I thought.

[Jason Kelce]

Like, it was. As somebody who didn't really know much about the game at the time, I. He stood out to me.

[Travis Kelce]

What was it like getting drafted to the Cleveland Browns, man? Did you know anything about the city? Did you, like, what were. What were your. Like. Like, where are the first places you went in the city? I'm so curious on everybody's, like, first introduction to Cleveland. Tell us about it.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah. So with three Cleveland guys here. This is easy to pump the tires of the Cleveland area, but, man, I was so happy. Dude, let's go. Because one, my dad's side is all from the Toledo area, so. Oh, right down the street every summer, and we go out there for the family reunion, we'd see all my dad's side of the family, and we go fishing on Lake Erie. And, you know, obviously fishing. Big part of my life. So being drafted and being able to live right on Lake Erie and go fishing in my free time, I was so pumped. And then I think also for me at that time, it was really important for me to stay in the Midwest. I was really interested because I think that, you know, east coast fans are incredible. There's a lot of them, right. They're super passionate, but I think there's something about, like, throughout the Rust Belt in the Midwest, like, that's all they got right, is their team, and they just love it, and they just absorb every single little thing, little detail that comes out of there, and they're a ride or die, no matter what happens. And I knew that's how the Browns fans were, and I had known a little bit about their history because we had a guy on the. The Badgers with me, Dante Sanders, who's. He's a Cleveland guy. Oh, yeah, He's a Bedford guy. Yeah, he's back there coaching now somewhere. But he was a huge Browns fan, so he'd always turn the Browns games on in the locker room in college. And so I knew that, you know, they had this incredibly robust, proud history of championships with Jim Brown and Otto Graham and all these guys. And since the super bowl era, they haven't won a Super Bowl. I haven't even been there. And then since they came back in 99, they've been kind of poopy.

[Jason Kelce]

And so for me, it was understatement.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

I've always, you know, enjoyed, like, building something from nothing. Right. Take a lot of pride and really just sinking my teeth into something and being part of, like, let's build this from. From nothing, from the ashes and make these. And we didn't do that. Spoiler alert. But when I got drafted, I was just full bore ahead, thinking, man, this is great. This is exactly where I want to be. It's in front of the fans that appreciate offensive line play. You know, they're not booing me because you drafted a tackle, number three overall. And just being able to live in Cleveland amongst people that I understood, like, it was just a perfect fit for me.

[Jason Kelce]

Why didn't they do that? What do you think when has been going wrong in Cleveland? Not as of late, I guess. Let's just talk about your career. Like, you guys are close. You guys had some great offensive lines during your time in Cleveland.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelce]

Never played in a postseason game. Like what. What was that process like playing? I mean, you played on a winless team in Cleveland. I can't even imagine that Travis hasn't had one losing season. Like, you're talking to the most, like, just lucky guy on the planet. One head coach, I mean, anyway, so, yeah, I don't know.

[Joe Thomas]

What was it like? We're very jealous here. Trust me. Trust me. Talking to guys, guys with multiple super bowl rings on the other side, I'm very jealous. But, you know, it was tough. I mean, there's no easy way to put it. Losing in the NFL is so hard. And I think, yeah, the Haslams took over in, I don't know, 2014, 2013, somewhere in there. And, you know, in 2016, 17, that was the two years we went 1 in 15 and O and 16. And I think their, their philosophy at that point was like, hey, guys, we don't have a team that's good enough to win right now, so we're going to trade back. We're going to collect draft capital, we're going to collect salary cap space, and then we're going to get a bunch of young talent. We're going to let them play together and kind of go through the. The challenges and the difficulties that when you have a young team, you deal with. But then year three, we're going to be a lot better, and we're going to have all this salary cap space to spend on free agents. We're going to have these draft picks, and I don't think they fully understand or at the time understood how painful it is to lose in the NFL.

[Jason Kelce]

Right.

[Joe Thomas]

You only get one. One chance every week. And how you feel that whole week is 100% related to whether you won or lost. When you lose, you feel sick. Sick the whole week. And in Cleveland, you guys know it. Everybody in town feels sick that whole week. When you lose, it is so painful. It is so miserable. And to go 1 in 15 and then go in 16, well, you can imagine it was not a lot of sunshines and rainbows in Northeast Ohio and certainly not in my house there in Westlake.

[Jason Kelce]

It just sucked.

[Joe Thomas]

Like, you hated going to work every day. The fans booed you. They, you know, they still showed up because it's Cleveland, but. But they were there to boo you, not to cheer you.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelce]

Damn, man. One of the hardest things to kind of weather is, is how many quarterbacks you guys went through. And obviously the notorious Jersey of like long listed names, that's. That could. How many of them could you name, do you think?

[Joe Thomas]

Very few. I'm trying to remember very few of them. Not exactly. The greatest memory ever is all the different quarterbacks I think I played for like 20 and 11 years, so.

[Travis Kelce]

Well, who are your. Who would give us. Give us your. Your top five, who you play.

[Joe Thomas]

My rookie season, we were actually 10 and 6. It was my only winning season. So Travis let that sink in one.

[Travis Kelce]

Hell yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

In 11 years, Derek Anderson was our quarterback.

[Travis Kelce]

Da.

[Joe Thomas]

He didn't even start the season we had. Charlie Fry was the starter, week one.

[Travis Kelce]

Yes.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah, I should have just retired after week one because going into that game, Charlie Fry was our starter. He was also the captain and he was the hometown hero. We play the Steelers at home. My first NFL game going against James Harrison, who will be in the hall of Fame soon. And that was tough enough, but we were getting our ass kicked. He got sacked. Charlie did like six times in the first half. At halftime, they benched him. Okay. Derek Anderson comes in, doesn't do much better Monday after the game. Mind you, this was our starting quarterback and our captain. And I came from Wisconsin where we had a lot of success. And you know, if, if, if you have a quarterback and he's your captain, like he's your dude.

[Travis Kelce]

Like he's a ride or die.

[Joe Thomas]

Like you would do anything for that guy. And you're spending all off season trying to build camaraderie and relationships and see the same things that he does. And on Monday they traded him to the Seattle Seahawks for like a six round pick. So I was like, what the fuck is this NFL stuff? Like our starting quarterback who was our captain just got traded and benched in the first two days.

[Jason Kelce]

It's aggressive. It's an aggressive.

[Joe Thomas]

Pretty aggressive.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelce]

You guys ended up going to get another quarterback that, that following year. And Brady Quinn though, right?

[Joe Thomas]

Brady was actually in my draft class. So I got drafted third by Cleveland and a lot of people in Cleveland because he was a Columbus guy, you know, but other hometown. Ish guy, grew up a Browns fan. Love Bernie Kozar. So a lot of people thought they would draft Brady third. Well, he slid in the draft and then they traded back up, I think with the Cowboys to draft him like in the 20s. So we came in together and he had a couple years as a starter like Year two, two and three of my.

[Travis Kelce]

He was the most jacked quarterback I had ever seen.

[Joe Thomas]

That was probably what held him back. Like his arms were bigger than Jason's over there. I'm not sure if that's even possible, but kind of hard to throw when you got pipes like that, bro.

[Travis Kelce]

Man gets in the way to watch. That was, that was. I remember that was the first like college game I ever saw was Brady Quinn versus. Versus. Oh, it was Pittsburgh. It was Notre Dame Pittsburgh. I forget the Palco.

[Joe Thomas]

Oh, is it Palco?

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah. Tyler Palco.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelce]

Shout out to Casey. Either way man. Brady was a. Brady was a stud. You played man. You played with a lot of QBs, man.

[Jason Kelce]

Remarkable, to be honest with you.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelce]

And still had the hall of Fame career. You did. How did you did. Did it ever get to the point where you just stopped introducing yourself to quarterbacks when they walked in?

[Joe Thomas]

Well, I did have one time in my career. It was like, I don't know, year five or six. Another spoiler alert. We weren't very good. I think we were 4 and 12 that year. But we were playing the Steelers the very last game of the season. It's in Pittsburgh. Right. And of course you hate Pittsburgh. You want to them up even though you know we're not going to the playoffs and they are. And so it was actually kind of a close game down the stretch. At the time Thad Lewis was our starting quarterback. So there's another one I remember. Great. The great, I should say proper introduction. The great Thad Lewis was our quarterback and it was like a 6 to 10, 6 to 14 game. Either way. It was like a one typical AFC north game. Oh yeah, a slug fest. You know, December 31, full of, you know, I got my long underwear on my. The fur and my helmet and I'm like holy cow, we may actually win this game. Like we're. We're driving down the field. It's in the fourth quarter and we're just getting into the hines red zone. You know, we're going towards the river there and the old Hines field, I don't know what the fuck they call it now, but it's not Heinzfield.

[Jason Kelce]

It's called Acrisure. It's still Heinzfield to me.

[Joe Thomas]

Something I can't say it's Heinzfield for me.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

So we're going there, going in the river and I'm like damn, we can fucking win this thing. And my left guard who is a backup, he as you'll give some appreciation, was his first like couple games as A starter. And we have just a two jet protection. Just super basic, like we're sliding left. Like this is the first protection you install in your playbook.

[Jason Kelce]

No doubt.

[Joe Thomas]

And Alex Mack's my center. He says lion, which our call then was like, hey, dipshit, even if you didn't hear lion, like two jet. We're going that way, bro.

[Jason Kelce]

Find the mic, right?

[Joe Thomas]

So what does he do? He goes to the right. And so they're playing a 3, 4 at the time.

[Jason Kelce]

Opposite of a lion. Okay?

[Joe Thomas]

Opposite of a lion, opposite of a 2 jet. Like this is not possible. So he goes to the right and James Harrison's outside linebacker. So I'm sliding out to him and I think it was maybe Brett keisel was playing DN or 4 technique, I can't remember for sure.

[Jason Kelce]

But.

[Joe Thomas]

But he's unblocked now, right, cuz? Left guard, that's your dude you're kicking.

[Jason Kelce]

Left guard goes the wrong way.

[Joe Thomas]

Yep, goes the wrong way. So he steamrolls Thad and, you know, detaches his head from his body. So Thad's laying there. That's already our third string quarterback. All of a sudden in the huddle, we're like, damn, this is not good. Because we actually don't know who the next guy in is, right? Like I had heard that week that we had signed a guy to be the backup emergency quarterback, but I didn't know who he was, right? So we looked at the sideline. Of course this guy's like, pan. He's like, you know, trying to warm his shoulder up, get a couple throws in. And the trainers are taking their time on the field, you know, because the quarterback's down, but they don't want to hurry up because we got to get this other guy like up to speed and warmed up a little bit. It's a cold day in Pittsburgh, so he trots out on the field after they get Thad Lewis's lifeless body off the field. He comes into the huddle and it's still a TV timeout. And I look around the huddle, I could see in everybody's eyes, like nobody knows who this fucking. And I can feel the tension.

[Jason Kelce]

Can't wait to hear this cadence for the first time.

[Joe Thomas]

Exciting. I guarantee this will be a sack blaming me. The guys watching in Japan are thinking that the bozo left tackle doesn't know SAP count. Meanwhile, as a quarterback. But I can't say that as a captain, I'm like, okay, I gotta do something here, right? There's a lot of tension being built here. And it's just rising as this timeout keeps going on. And so I, like. I was like, all right, I gotta say something funny. So I'm like, hey, nice to meet you. I'm Joe Thomas. I'm your left tackle. Let's go down the field and get a score and win this game.

[Travis Kelce]

You know, everybody laughs, laughed.

[Joe Thomas]

And I learned at that moment his name was Josh Johnson. He ended up playing, like, a long game.

[Travis Kelce]

He's still playing, still probably playing somewhere.

[Joe Thomas]

I think he played for, like, 14 teams. But anyways, next play, it was third down, and I think he threw an incompletion and we lost the game. But in my mind, that speech led us to victory, Nothing else.

[Jason Kelce]

In a parallel universe, that worked out perfectly.

[Joe Thomas]

Absolutely. When I write my book biography and they do the movie, like, we go down and score and win the game, and like, somehow, like, maybe we have a parade because we beat Pittsburgh for the first time, but. But that didn't happen. But either way, I got a fun story out of it, and I learned who Josh Johnson was.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelce]

Shout out to Josh Johnson.

[Joe Thomas]

Shout out to Josh. Thank you for coming in for one play.

[Jason Kelce]

You played against some absolute monsters on defense in your time in the AFC North. Who are the guys that were either, like, you're welcome to the NFL moment or like, just like, you're playing them in their prime. And you think of as some of the best defensive players in the NFL from that time.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah. So when I was a rookie, the other three teams in the AFC north, it was. I was going against Justin Smith, who I think was like, one of the first dudes ever to be named first team all Pro at two positions in the same season because he was playing in 3, 4 in San Francisco. And he got named as an all pro at defensive tackle in the end, you know, because he played that 4.

[Jason Kelce]

4.

[Joe Thomas]

I. So, you know, he got most of.

[Jason Kelce]

The D tackle and baby. Yes, he's a dn. Yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah. So I was going against him. So that was the second game of my career. The first game of my career was James Harrison. I was like, okay, right? And then the third guy will be future hall of Famer Terrell Suggs. So, like, within the division, I was playing against, like, three hall of Famers, potentially. I don't know if Justin will make it, but, like, the other two guys, for sure. And it was not. It was not pretty. But, you know, you better buckle up your chin strap, like, and get your shit right, rookie, because there's no easy days here in the AFC North.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah. I'm glad you brought up Justin because that was one of the first games I played my rookie year. But he was in San Fran.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelce]

And I had never really heard, like, I don't. He was like, high pick for Cincinnati. For some reason, he didn't have, like a big name around him. And we're getting ready to play the 49ers. When they had that front where it was like, they had him, they had Ray McDonald, they had Navarro, Bowman, Patrick.

[Joe Thomas]

Willis, Alden Smith on the edge, there's a monster.

[Jason Kelce]

They were unreal. And this dude is. Is bull rushing every snap. Like, you know, how do you even have the endurance to do that? Because typically, like a bull rush, you're like, all right, I'll stop it. I'll get that like once or twice. I'll get like a real good one from this guy. The rest of the game. We're going to be playing a different type of game. It was ever. I'm like, this dude is amazing. This guy's the best player I've ever seen in my life. I don't know how we're going to block this guy.

[Joe Thomas]

And we didn't.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah, exactly.

[Joe Thomas]

He played every snap as a D tackle, dn. Like, he never came off the field. Like, he's as much of an iron man as anybody in the NFL. And we always said, like, if there was a train wreck and 200 people were involved, like, 199 would die, and Justin Smith is going to dust himself off and walk away at the bar down the street. He was just that old school. Like, he had an Anheiser bush tattoo on his arm. He was just an old school country boy. Like, all he knew was just playing ball.

[Jason Kelce]

Gosh, he was good.

[Travis Kelce]

Good.

[Jason Kelce]

I mean, obviously trail Suggs. I mean, the biggest head I've ever seen, I think, on a defensive end.

[Travis Kelce]

I mean, came through Kansas City and catapulted us into the. Into the super bowl, man.

[Joe Thomas]

There you go.

[Travis Kelce]

Sizzle was. I was not trying to be in bad protection against him. There was some of those old school dudes like Harrison and, and, and Suggs. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's not like they were ever out of their prime. They were good until they stopped playing. But, man, some of those dudes could just literally pick me up and move me over just like, excuse me, little guy.

[Jason Kelce]

What was your strategy to stop James Harrison's dip and rip? It was like the most unstoppable move I think I've ever seen anybody have where he would just bend Real low. And then he had the biggest biceps in the world that he just, like, lift up on. How do you stop that move? What?

[Joe Thomas]

Jason, you were doing that just to show off.

[Jason Kelce]

You get an O lineman on, he's gonna humble you real quick. We kick each other on.

[Joe Thomas]

Loved it. I think that one of the things that really helped me as an alignment, like, I wasn't as big as a lot of guys, but, like, I took a different game plan and strategy on how I block every single person I went against. And even the same guys from, like, year to year, I would maybe attack them differently. Right. Because I knew that in order for me to maintain the upper hand, I had to be different than what they saw in film, different what they practice for. So with James, the big key on that dip and rip was, like, you had to keep space. Right. Because the only thing that James really didn't have, right, he was super powerful. He was very short and squatty, which allowed him to get under your pads if you let him get into your body. And he was really quick, too, but.

[Jason Kelce]

He didn't have length.

[Joe Thomas]

Didn't have that length. So I knew that that was my advantage. So I just was really, really super conscious of picking my spot on his shoulder pads or on his bicep to be able to hit that spot and extend and keep him away from my body. Because is, the rip only works as if he's in your body and he's able to get that arm kind of under your armpit. Exactly.

[Jason Kelce]

I mean, it makes so much sense. And I've always thought about it similar. It's almost like you're a boxer. Like, when you're a shorter boxer, you want to get into the body when you have the length advantage, use that advantage and keep that guy away from you. And I've always drawn that comparison. I was always the undersized guy. So I was. Let me get into this body. All I want to do is get in the body and grab these tits. Nothing changed for me. Career for me. Yeah. A lot easier to do that inside on the edge. But anyway, when you were blocking a defensive end or an edge rusher, what were the things that you struggled with most? What was, like, the combinations that gave you the most difficulty in trying to defend? If that is a. Yeah, so sensible question.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, I think we'll go with it. I'll try to make some sense out of that. Please, please make a chicken salad here. So what I found really hard was, is if a guy tried to break down your feet.

[Jason Kelce]

Feet.

[Joe Thomas]

And then tried to beat you with power. So, for instance, if you get a guy who's wide. Right. Because everything's about angles when you get on the outside. So you got a wide rusher, right?

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

If they just try to beat you around the edge with speed, like, I'll be able to keep up with them and push him past the quarterback, no problem. That's what I wanted them to do. Right. You're already further away, and now they're just trying to outrun me. And in a foot race, I can go backwards pretty fast. What I struggled with, though, is if they were wide, but they rushed from that wide rush position straight at my inside shoulder. Because now what that does, it doesn't allow me to kick back because my advantage was, like, I know the snap count, and my first two kicks are going to be really fast and long so I can get depth. And then now, when I get to that spot, now the quarterback eventually is going to get to his spot, and then now they got to beat me, and they've already wasted a second and a half to get to this spot.

[Jason Kelce]

Yep.

[Joe Thomas]

But if they rush right at my inside shoulder. Shoulder. I can't kick deep because otherwise he just keeps running on a straight line and beats me to the inside. So it made me stop my feet. So I take. I basically would only get one kick, stop my feet, and as he's getting closer to me, give the head and shoulders that kind of usually would break your hands. You drop your feet, drop your. Your hips, your center of gravity. And then when that happened, now he can. Now he's basically on my same level. And now if he decides to run around me to the outside, he's faster than me.

[Jason Kelce]

He's shortened the edge.

[Joe Thomas]

He's shortened the edge. He's got a better angle to beat you around to the outside. And it's really hard for a lineman to go from basically being in a static position in a static spot to all of a sudden accelerating really quickly and trying to pick up to a guy that's running already full speed. Because if you imagine a defensive end, he's running full speed now. He's just got to change the angle that he's running full speed on, where my feet are stopped. I am in one position, and now I got to rapidly accelerate to get. Get to the speed that he's going as he's already running forward and I'm running backwards. And so it was really, really hard when guys would do that, because also if they try to give you the head and shoulders, and then now they Fake like they're going to go outside. You're trying to accelerate backwards, and now they can go beat you back to the inside. Or if you get on your heels, they can just run you over by just steamrolling you. And they've got a lot of momentum built up from being wide and starting to run really fast and really powerfully right at you.

[Travis Kelce]

You're f. You're such a technician, man. God, just to be able to hear you talk about these kind of things, it's awesome. And the. You approached each game, each player differently, man. It's fascinating stuff, dog.

[Joe Thomas]

Appreciate it, man.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah, and I love it because I feel like a lot of.

[Joe Thomas]

It's serious.

[Jason Kelce]

A lot of. A lot of. I feel like it's like Kevin Green, speed to power. Get the tackle moving back and then go through him, get him off his, like, get him moving backwards and retreating. This is like the tilted guy who's running right at you where you can't go back. Shortens that edge. The shush. I hate the, like, I don't want to see this. I don't want to see all that. I don't want to see all that.

[Travis Kelce]

You love a good success call. Dude, we already talked about the 10,363 consecutive snaps. We got to talk about the. The first time you weren't out there on the field, man. How. How hard was that? Because you're. You're the Ironman. You. You played through so much. You. You did so much for your team. Those teams up front for the Browns, that the O line was never the issue. You guys. You always had those guys. Guys rocked and ready to play. How was it just not being able to be out there with the guys for that first time?

[Joe Thomas]

It was really tough. My best friends were my linemen, right? John Greco, Alex Mack, Joel, Mitchell Schwartz, your boy in Schwarzy, baby. Like, those are my dudes. And we played a lot of seasons together, and we had really good offensive lines. Never really got probably the credit we deserved because we just weren't on very good teams. Never ran for like a ton of yards because we never had that.

[Travis Kelce]

That.

[Joe Thomas]

That dude as a running back. At one point in my career, it was me and Joel. I don't know how many Pro Bowls we got between the two of us. Alex Mack, I think he made six or seven. Greco should have made a Pro Bowl. And then you got Mitchell Schwarz, who made like four or five All Pros. So, like, yeah, we had a. We had a lot of hardware there between all of us. And so studs yeah, the hardest thing, like line lineman, they're so close and tight ends are sort of an extension of the offensive line. And you know, those are usually the closest rooms on a football team. And so I almost. You have this, like, feeling inside of you. Not that you betrayed him or you let him down, but like, that was almost the feeling and the emotion that was coming out of me when I couldn't be out there anymore because it was just such a thing that I took for granted. Didn't even think about, like, hey, do I go and strap it back up and play this week? I'm. I don't know, I'm kind of banged up. I got MCL sprain. Like, that never crossed my mind. It was just like, I got a job to do. I'm going to show up and do my job and I can use all of my brain space now to think about how I'm going to beat this guy guy. Rather than wondering, like, oh, am I healthy enough to play? Can I go out there? I don't know, should I sit down? Like, that never crossed my mind and I think it helped me. But then that moment, it's gone. There was like some mental health issues that I had to deal with of feeling like I let those guys around me down. And, you know, even though the team sucked, like, I still had that really strong connection with the fan base. And I had that same feeling with them. Like, you know, I felt like I always owed it to them to go out and give my best and do whatever I can to try to turn this thing into a winner because they're so loyal, so passionate, and I wanted to give them that gratitude by going out and playing great ball. So it was, it was really, really hard dealing with that. And I did whatever I could with the team, trying to help the other linemen, you know, prepare for games, watching film for them, taking notes. And the one benefit I would say for me is it was Miles Garrett's rookie year, so I was able to really spend a lot of time with Miles and help him see the game from an offensive tackles perspective. Right. So damn you, Joe.

[Jason Kelce]

Damn you, Joe.

[Joe Thomas]

I wasn't going to do that until I was definitely out of the league.

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

But yeah, I would write him scouting reports and I would give him like, hey, okay, this is what this guy's good at. This is what he's not good at. This is the rush. I think you should feature. But don't do it at the beginning of the game. Set him up first two quarters and then in the second Half when the game's on the line now, you pull out your best stuff and then you give him what you've been giving him, and then you'll probably beat him. And then, you know, turns out he's also a really ridiculously good athlete. So he can kind of do whatever I ask him to do. He can just do whatever he fun.

[Travis Kelce]

Just go out there and have fun. Miles.

[Jason Kelce]

Freaking, he's like a scorpion, a girl.

[Travis Kelce]

Like, to that point, though it is, it's fascinating how much guys come into the league and they don't necessarily understand what guys on the other side of the ball are being taught. It's one thing to understand what coverage they're in, what front they're in, but it's a whole another, like, level of preparation to understand how you're being defended in routes, how this guy is going to use his hands or use his. Use just moves throughout the day in terms of pass rush. And that really, that, that 100% took my game to the next level. Asking guys like Eric Barry about coverages, about his leverages, asking dbs, you know, where. What are you thinking in this sort of coverage? You know, going up to a guy like Spags, the defensive coordinator in kc and asking him, you know, later in the game, what are you thinking? In big time situations, it's just you, you, you ask the right questions to the right guys and you're gonna, you're gonna see yourself progress down the line. And Miles had a Hall of Famer sitting right there telling him what they. I mean, that's his cheat code itself, let alone how athletic that dude is, man.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah, man. I tried to be a psychologist, right? I wanted to know what that dude was thinking. I want to know who his girlfriend was. I wanted to know what he ate for breakfast, like, because I felt like that's how you slow the game down and as you get older, you get to be a shittier athlete. But, like, if your brain's speeding up, you can play faster. And that's how guys are able to stick around, especially on the old line, line a lot longer than their athletic ability should allow them is because the game's just moving so slow for them because they know everything that's going on and they can see things before they happen.

[Jason Kelce]

Absolutely. Let's talk a little bit international football. Germany for almost a full year, right?

[Joe Thomas]

Yep, yep.

[Travis Kelce]

Ravens, baby.

[Jason Kelce]

There we go, baby. How was the experience?

[Joe Thomas]

Amazing. Yeah, amazing.

[Jason Kelce]

Was it?

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelce]

Okay. Okay.

[Joe Thomas]

I was trying to twist your arm to come over and trust me, I know.

[Jason Kelce]

I wanted to so bad.

[Joe Thomas]

Lots of stuff going on, but a great time. Munich is just incredible city. It's in southern Germany and Bavaria, it's right on the edge of the Alps. So like when I wanted to go over and coach American football in Europe, obviously I wanted to scratch the itch of coaching. I wanted to allow my kids to experience living abroad, living international, like challenge them, put them in uncomfortable situations. Like my kids made them play rugby, went over there, my daughter, my 10 year old daughter playing rugby with the boys and so cool.

[Jason Kelce]

Awesome.

[Joe Thomas]

Like I wanted to do all those things because I, I thought it would make them better people, we'd have a great experience, be able to travel. But I, I really wanted to have an opportunity to go and coach professionals, coach adults without having the time commitment that it takes to be like an NFL coach. I really wanted to impact players that love the game and it was really, really fun because these guys are basically playing for peanuts. You know, they're not getting paid but a few hundred euros every month to go out there and they're working regular jobs. And so it was so joyful because these dudes had talent. They just didn't have the coaching, they didn't have the resources growing up. So you could take a guy that was here. And throughout the course of the season, you're seeing significant improvement every single week, every single time you ever have to ask them for more effort, you never have to ask them to focus. Right. Because they're signing up to do this for nothing. They wouldn't be there if they weren't obsessed with the game of football.

[Travis Kelce]

That's awesome, man.

[Jason Kelce]

So were all of these guys like German football players or were there any like international, like, like US players playing over there?

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelce]

So go ahead.

[Joe Thomas]

Sorry. I'm sorry to cut you off. Poor guesting right there on my part.

[Travis Kelce]

Cut his ass off.

[Jason Kelce]

I'm an idiot. Don't worry about it.

[Joe Thomas]

In the ELF European League of Football, so every team is allowed four Americans. Typically it's quarterback, receiver, and then two DBs. Right. Because those are positions that are harder to find in Europe.

[Jason Kelce]

Sure.

[Joe Thomas]

But all my offensive linemen were German guys. You're allowed a certain number of players outside of the country that your team is based in, but lineman is what Germany does best. That was the reason I wanted to go there. Right. So.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah, baby.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah, all German guys. Which is cool because you got to get a little flavor of the German culture, a little bit of like the slang, the language, and started to understand them a little bit more.

[Travis Kelce]

And you filling up on those Schnitzels or what? Dude?

[Joe Thomas]

Lots of Schnitzelman. Thomas. Lots of Hellas beer. Like you were living in that country, which is such.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

Then if you're just vacationing or just traveling as a tourist, I love it.

[Jason Kelce]

Is Europe ready for the NFL? What was your. What was your takeaway from Germany? Do they love football?

[Joe Thomas]

Oh, man, they are obsessed with football.

[Jason Kelce]

Really?

[Joe Thomas]

The NFL? Well, we played over there.

[Travis Kelce]

It was fucking. It was pretty. It was through the roof, and that was Frankfurt. So I can only imagine what a big city like, Munich is.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah, man. Like, you guys are freaking heroes. Like, I didn't get noticed much over there, but, like, you two guys are fucking kings over there. It is so cool. Cool. Just seeing how popular the game is, right? They love it. They're obsessed. And the NFL's done a great job putting games over there, giving them a feel of what an NFL game looks like from a fan experience. But also, like, on the field, what we do every day, the gladiators that we are or I. I used to be going out there, putting your body on the line for your team. Like, they totally get it. Like, it really resonates with the German mindset, the German culture, the teamwork aspect, the sacrifice, the toughness, the way that the game is violent. Like, it's just personal. Perfect for them. And I think that was really what sparked my interest in going to Munich, because I worked the Munich game for the NFL Network, and I got to be in that stadium, Allianz Arena. I was like, holy, these dudes love this thing. Like, I gotta get over here and be part of it.

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah, it's awesome.

[Jason Kelce]

Did you do Oktoberfest while you're over there? I just gotta ask. I've always wanted to go.

[Travis Kelce]

We gotta ask. We gotta ask. Oh, yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

Oh, yeah. It's a great party. October Fest. So fun. It was cool. So you got to buy tables. Like, it's really hard to get. Like, you gotta know somebody. And thankfully, our special teams coach over there, Tom, he was head of security.

[Travis Kelce]

It's always the teamers.

[Joe Thomas]

That's right.

[Travis Kelce]

It's always the tamers.

[Joe Thomas]

Security for one of the big beer companies. And so he had a couple tables. So we. It was right after a season. So actually I. I was there and had all of our team. Got them all together, you know, bought them all the beers and stuff, because these guys are basically poor college kids. So we did the whole deal. We had like 20 or 30 of the guys from the team there, and we celebrated the end of the season. The way you're supposed to with good, good German Helles Beer poke and some schweinboxel and schnitzel. McBaume. We blew it up. It was. It was a tremendous time. And when you get that experience with the locals, like you're getting the proper experience.

[Jason Kelce]

Hell yeah.

[Travis Kelce]

That's fucking awesome, dude. You're. You're our only connect to Oktoberfest. We might be hitting you up here in a few years, guys.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah, let's go. We might back in the fall.

[Travis Kelce]

So let's do this.

[Joe Thomas]

Do it.

[Jason Kelce]

Thank you to our partner. DraftKings. That's right. The NBA playoffs have officially begun. Let's have you construct a same game parlay extra of your favorite picks. Sure. For those who are unfamiliar, same game parlay extra is a parlay with at least two of the bets from one game and at least one pick from a different game. That's how it works. All right, where do we want to start here, Brandon?

[Travis Kelce]

Here's what I'm going do. Since last week, you didn't love my little bets. You were like, oh, I don't like little bets. I didn't say you were out on them. I could read your face.

[Joe Thomas]

So here's what we're gonna do.

[Travis Kelce]

We're gonna do friend of the show Donovan Mitchell.

[Joe Thomas]

We're gonna go more.

[Travis Kelce]

25 and a half points.

[Jason Kelce]

Love it. Love it. I'm always fan of overs.

[Travis Kelce]

I believe in playoff Donovan. And I'm gonna go Steph curry more. Also 25 and a half. Steph Curry is absolute demon in the playoffs. Maybe my favorite athlete to watch.

[Jason Kelce]

So we need one more pick from that same game. Ooh.

[Travis Kelce]

Okay, okay, okay. So either Miami Cleveland or Golden State Houston.

[Joe Thomas]

Let's go. Tyler Hero. More.

[Travis Kelce]

23 and a half points. Let's throw him in there.

[Joe Thomas]

That's what I've built.

[Travis Kelce]

Enjoy.

[Jason Kelce]

If you bet $5 on this and you hit it big, you'd. You'd get some pretty good coin. Because parlays, that's how they work. They kind of compound. It's compounding betting. Payout. All right. Check out all the odds for the playoffs and more on DraftKings sportsbook. Now that everyone knows about the some of the awesome bets that are available on DraftKings, you're ready to watch. Watch the games, which are going to be even more exciting because you have money on them if you so choose. Anyways, those of you who haven't checked out the DraftKings app, you can get a new customer offer. All new customers who bet $5 will get $200 in bonus bets instantly. Download the DraftKings app and sign up using promo code. New Heights the crown is yours.

[Travis Kelce]

Gambling Problem Call 1-800-Gambler Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org in Connecticut and eligibility restrictions vary by jurisdiction. Pick six not available everywhere, including New York and Ontario. Void were prohibited 1 per new customer bonus awarded as non withdrawable. Pick 6 credits that expire in 14 days.

[Jason Kelce]

Limited time offer.

[Travis Kelce]

See [e-mail] promos thank you to our partner, Borishead. You know what makes my day? The perfect sandwich. And I mean perfect sandwich.

[Jason Kelce]

I'm not going to lie. We love sandwiches. We do Deli meat. I like cooked meats. I like meats of all kinds. But if you want deli meats, Boris Head has got you covered.

[Travis Kelce]

Now I get why people make such a big deal about it. Their oven gold turkey.

[Jason Kelce]

Don't even get me started on their ever roasted chicken. The craftsmanship that goes into each slice. Chef's kiss.

[Travis Kelce]

How would you describe your ultimate sandwich? What's going to make it extra special?

[Jason Kelce]

Extra special. So if I'm trying to be extra special, yes. All right, so we're going to deli sandwich. If I'm going an extra special deli sandwich, I'm going to put some Boar's Head meat on there. I'm going to put some healthy layers of cheese, potentially Parmesan cheese. I mean, I guess parm some fresh Parmesan cheese on top. Put some, ooh, hot sauce. Put some hot sauce on there. Lettuce and tomato to make you feel like you're being healthy. Then mayonnaise, Healthy dose of mayonnaise and maybe a little bit of mustard. But it depends on how what hot sauce you're working with. Boar said has been perfecting their legendary ingredients for over 120 years. From selecting premium ingredients to perfecting traditional methods, Boar's Head embraces true craftsmanship.

[Travis Kelce]

Whether it's their Smokemaster uncured ham or literally anything else they make, you're gonna get the real deal.

[Jason Kelce]

Head to your local Boar Said Deli Counter to discover the craftsmanship behind everybody. Boarhead committed to craft since 1905. Kingsford. Thank you to our partner, Kingsford.

[Travis Kelce]

That's right. Are you missing those game day vibes? Here's a hot take. Tailgating isn't just for football season, guys. I'm talking about bringing that legendary parking lot party energy to everything.

[Jason Kelce]

Think about it. You know, you get kids soccer Match dance recitals. You know, you get fire ups and Kingsford charcoal at any of these events. That's a beautiful thing about charcoal. You take a. You take that grill in your car and you can just have a cookout wherever you want. Any place can be memorable. Not just sports things like baseball practice. You can do this at. I mean really any place. I mean if you got the grill in the charcoal, I mean, unless you don't have right to be on that land, you can tailgate wherever you want. It's the beauty of it that is.

[Travis Kelce]

The beauty of tailgating. It's the community it creates. It's about turning every day of every moment into celebrations. And let's be honest, nothing beats authentic wood fired flavored Kingsford original charcoal just.

[Jason Kelce]

Changed a baby's diaper. Fire up the grill, baby. We gotta celebrate. Time to celebrate this dirty diaper with some hot dogs and some hamburgers cooked on a good old fashioned American company Charcoal Kingsford. That's right.

[Travis Kelce]

So fire up that grill, gather your people and make any day a tailgate day. Because with Kingsford, the party never has to end.

[Jason Kelce]

All right, we're going to get to a section we call. We gotta ask during this section. You don't have to answer. You can tell us to off. We're just gonna do like a rapid fire list of questions. Ready?

[Travis Kelce]

Nice.

[Jason Kelce]

Were you ever going to play a position other than offensive line?

[Joe Thomas]

So in college I played some defensive end and I played tight end. But they saw how fast I was so they moved me to offensive line.

[Jason Kelce]

That's how it always work. Fairly quickly. Was it always going to be football?

[Joe Thomas]

I was actually more of a basketball guy until I stopped growing up and started growing out. So when I was 14, I was 6, 7. And then I never grew another inch.

[Travis Kelce]

So I realized, damn. Were you, I was about to say, were you getting looks through high school or.

[Joe Thomas]

So I had like some small offers, like walking on Wisconsin, Marquette, like some small offer scholarship like Holy Cross and some other Holy Cross.

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

You're like, okay, I could go play hoops at Holy Cross or I could play football at Notre Dame or Wisconsin or Miami. You're like usc. I'm like, okay, I get it. You're telling me without telling me that it's going to be football, but do.

[Jason Kelce]

You think you could have played in the NBA?

[Joe Thomas]

Hell no. I was not that good. I was just a hustle guy. I could get some rebounds.

[Travis Kelce]

You have a mean or on the block or what? Yeah, that's awesome. Coach. Who had the biggest impact on Your game, probably.

[Joe Thomas]

George Warhop. He was the offensive line coach I had the longest during my career. He was top tough. He was very technically sound. He forced you to just do an unbelievable amount of homework and notes and extra individual, like, you know, probably like Stoutland. Like, all those things. Right. But at the end of the day, you respect him. You love him like a father, and he can be safely say, like, he had an outsized impact, and you wouldn't be where you were when your career was over without him touching your life.

[Jason Kelce]

You're inducted into the hall of fame in 2023. 3. How did you find out you got in?

[Joe Thomas]

It was a very special day. So Walter Jones, who was my idol growing up, came to the door, knocked on the door, had no idea that I was going to have the messenger man show up at the door at that time, because up until that moment, they used to bring you down to the super bowl in a hotel room, and then they would knock and, like, sk. Congratulations. Or they call you and say, sorry, you didn't make it, which sucked, because your family's there and everything, and then you got to fly home. So they changed it my year, where they actually called your wife, talked. Talk to her, like, set it up, make sure you're at home so they could surprise you at home. And so I was actually. We were. She told me, we're gonna go to dinner. It was Friday nights. We're gonna go to a fish fry with the neighbors, you know? So I was kind of, like, always got fish involved. Yeah. Yeah. So. So I was out at the farm doing my cattle stuff for hall of fame beef during the day, and I got home, and I was kind of dirty, so I. I was just in my underwear. And she's like, hey, we got to go to dinner. You got to get changed really quick. I'm like, don't worry about it. Like, she's like, coming. Coming to the. The kitchen. We got to talk about something. Schedules. And she's like, but put your clothes on. I'm like, why? Like, I'll do that after we have our little meeting. She's like, no, you can't come in here unless you have your. Your pants on. I'm like, all right, whatever. Like, it's always got to be your way, doesn't it? So, like, I got changed. I went in there, and she was just trying to get me away from the door because she didn't want me to see, like, all the cameras show up, and she wanted, like, that surprise factor. And it was so cool because. Because My kids were in the kitchen with us. We were having a family meeting. And so the kids run around the the hall, and they see everybody through the door. So they see Walter Jones, he's wearing his gold jacket. They see the film crew, and they just burned back to me and started screaming, daddy, you made the hall of fame. The waterworks. It was just so special.

[Jason Kelce]

That's awesome.

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah, man.

[Jason Kelce]

Man, that's.

[Travis Kelce]

Damn, that's a good story.

[Jason Kelce]

What is the best Great Lake Lake?

[Joe Thomas]

Like your best fishing man?

[Jason Kelce]

There we go.

[Joe Thomas]

Fish factory. That's all I can say, baby.

[Travis Kelce]

I love it.

[Jason Kelce]

Those perch fry. Oh, come on, let's go.

[Travis Kelce]

The University of Wisconsin Madison was named one of the nation's top party schools. Something that a lot of people wouldn't necessarily assume. Earning the number six spot on the Wall Street Journal's list of best party schools in the US for 2025. Does. Does it live up to the reputation it does.

[Joe Thomas]

I'm disappointed that it slipped, because when I was there, we were number one every year. I had an outsized influence on that rating, man. The people there, they just want to have a good time, and they're not afraid to drink some beer.

[Jason Kelce]

Hell yeah. You got shit for playing with baggy pants. Are you aware of this, Joe?

[Joe Thomas]

Yes. I loved it.

[Jason Kelce]

Can you explain why you chose to wear baggy pants?

[Travis Kelce]

Is that I love, loved it.

[Joe Thomas]

I wore baggy pants because I'm all about function, not fashion. As you can see, I am all about. All right, how do I get this fat dude to go as quickly as that skinny, fast dude.

[Jason Kelce]

Yes.

[Joe Thomas]

And if you're wearing those tight pants that show off these. These great legs and great ass that I never had, I had the nas at all. Like, there was. There was no ass in those pants. Like, it's kind of hard to move, especially if you throw, like, the knee sleeves and the knee braces and all the gear and the kit you're wearing underneath. Oh, yeah, it slows you down a lot. So I always thought, you know, the quickest, most nimble thing on. On planet Earth, it's the ninja, right?

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

Pants, no. They wear nice, comfy, baggy joggers, right? So I was like, give me. Go to the equipment room. Give me the largest pants you have. And we had a guy named Ishmael Kitchen who was like a nose guard, maybe 5, 11, 6 foot.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

350 ish.

[Jason Kelce]

Big boy.

[Joe Thomas]

I wore a pant size that was too bigger than him, so you know that I was really, really stretching it. And I actually had to have A little, like, elastic, sticky, like, I know what you're made. So. On the inside of my pants so they wouldn't fall down.

[Travis Kelce]

That's money. Shout out to all the equipment guys making it work, man. I was doing the same thing right now. They don't make pants big enough.

[Joe Thomas]

No.

[Travis Kelce]

Even if you go like a. Like a size 40 or 42 waist, they still ride up over your knees. And I'm a big. My knees have to be covered. All dudes are doing, like. Guys are putting their helmet right on my kneecaps. I need that. I need those things covered.

[Joe Thomas]

That's right.

[Travis Kelce]

And I still wear those old school pads that look like thigh pads in the knees. But no, they were. They were like, extending them like an extra, like 3 or 4 inches because they weren't making them long enough, man. Shout out to all the equipment guys.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah. By all these young Gen Xers, Gen Z's, whoever they are. Like, are they teasing you for your pants?

[Travis Kelce]

They more so tease me for throwing a fit when they shrink the old guy getting all pissed off because his pants don't fit.

[Joe Thomas]

I'm just like, oh, so good.

[Jason Kelce]

All right, you've said it took you four hours to play for a game. What was your pregame process?

[Joe Thomas]

Well, I won't waste all four hours telling you what it was, but it was very long because I was always one of the first guys that got there. And I would always make sure I go on the field first because I. I wanted a little moment of serenity before anybody was in the stadium to go on the field and just absorb it and just appreciate the fact that I get to go play in an NFL stadium. So few people in the world that get to do this, and they're gonna pay me to do this today, you know, that was sort of me, like, telling myself, this is worth it to go out and, like, shred your body.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

Go out there where there's absolutely no upside whatsoever. If I play the world's greatest game as a left tackle, nobody knows we're.

[Jason Kelce]

Owing 15, but it's worth it.

[Joe Thomas]

Talking about it for three years.

[Jason Kelce]

Years. Yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

So it was that one moment at the beginning where I'd be like, all right, this is really cool. And I would just kind of walk around, didn't have any of my stuff on yet, and just take it in. Check the field, too. That was important. Like, trying to figure out exactly, you know, how my cleats were. Like, was everything proper? You know, how cold is it? Where's the wind? Stuff like that. Then went Back inside, took a shower. Then it was a long time in the training room, you know, hot tub, if they had it. And then putting all the equipment on just took forever because I was wearing two knee sleeves, elbow sleeves, or elbow braces. You know, all the other stuff that you normally put on, taping the ankles, the whole deal. And then I even took it a step further. The only other thing I'll mention out of all the stuff that I usually did was, you know, the qda, the quick drying adhesive that they spray on your ankles before they tape it.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

So I took a bottle of that and I would spray the bottom of my feet, and then I would spray my legs so that when I put my knee sleeves on, they wouldn't slide, and then my socks wouldn't slide down. Right. Because there's nothing more annoying than your socks sliding down. Have to deal with it. They find you for one. One, I don't want to give up my money to Roger Goodell. But then I also sprayed the bottom of my socks because inside my shoe. One thing that happened early on in my career that I hated was like, it gets hot, you're sweaty, and your feet start sliding.

[Jason Kelce]

It's the worst.

[Joe Thomas]

They slide, and then you can't feel the ground the way you need to. Like, I always thought of myself like an eagle. Like, my feet were the talons and I was gripping the ground, and that gave me the balance and the agility that I needed. And so when I figured out how to, like spray basing my whole body and sticky stuff so I wouldn't slide at all, that was. That was the next level. And then on top of that, I would. I would do like a bunch of tape on my hand so that I was like a boxer, you know, I was like a Ninja Turtle. Taping the fingers together and then taping the thumbs so your thumbs don't get screwed up. So it took a long time. Just put all that stuff on.

[Travis Kelce]

Just spraying the sticky on you. Like it's sunscreen or something. Just.

[Jason Kelce]

That's stun.

[Joe Thomas]

That's stunk, too. Like, there's definitely some cancer warnings in that.

[Jason Kelce]

Oh, yeah, we've done worse, right? Did I used to do something? I would also set, like, little alarms. I would have my phone. I would set alarms at every 15 minutes to like. All right, now I'm gonna get my ankles tape. Now I'm gonna take my pre workout. Now I'm gonna take my fingers. Now I'm gonna, like, warm up. Now I'm gonna do this and. And speak. I Used to hate that foot thing. Under armour made a cleat insole that was like rubber for like a couple years. Oh, yeah, And I just like, scoured all of these cleats just so I could get this, like. I hate the cloth that's on top. It doesn't make no sense. Exactly.

[Joe Thomas]

Stupid.

[Jason Kelce]

Yep. Dumb. All right, well, we agree on that. Speaking of dumb, we're gonna get to our next segment. No dumb questions. Pick your favorites. We can either do liquid out of fingers. What the does this mean, Brandon?

[Travis Kelce]

Nobody knows anything. All right, let's do this.

[Joe Thomas]

First off, tell us Joe what this is. Tell Joe what the segment segment is. It's.

[Travis Kelce]

These are questions from fans.

[Jason Kelce]

Thank you, Brandon, you're the best. As always.

[Joe Thomas]

Your friends are here.

[Jason Kelce]

Shirt. I'm always nice. You're my best friend. What is that steel still rocking?

[Joe Thomas]

Still kicking.

[Jason Kelce]

All right, there you go.

[Travis Kelce]

From my local liquor store.

[Jason Kelce]

Love that.

[Joe Thomas]

How many bottles of booze you gotta buy to get a free T shirt from the local liquor store, bro? My. My parents watch this show, so we're not gonna answer that one.

[Jason Kelce]

Don't worry about it.

[Joe Thomas]

They have a wonderful wine club.

[Jason Kelce]

All right, all right. So no dumb questions. Is fan submitted questions that are usually really stupid, but we call them not dumb to encourage people to feel comfortable enough to submit really stupid questions. We have one question is going to be related to liquid out of fingers. We have another question that's going to be related to Kentucky Derby horse name. We have another one related to NFL team, team of other pro athletes. I don't know what. Okay. Or Scottish sports. Which one of those is speaking to you most?

[Joe Thomas]

Joe, let's go. Scottish sports. You know, just came back.

[Travis Kelce]

There we go.

[Jason Kelce]

That's why we need more linemen on this show. All right, Scottish sports, hit us. Brandon.

[Joe Thomas]

Hi, Jason, Travis, Colin from Glasgow, Scotland here. Dumb question is, what would you do if you would come to Scotland? What sports event would you understand?

[Jason Kelce]

Take cheers. All the best. Wow. First of all, love the accent. I mean, I. If we have Scottish people calling in Brandon, they get first right of any of the questions. I don't care what they ask. Just so I can hear that. All right, Joe, it is. You're the guest. You have the honors. How do you want to answer that?

[Travis Kelce]

Yeah, if you're going to Scott, Scotland, what sport are you playing?

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah, I mean, golf is the easy one, but I was over in Ireland for Alex Mack's wedding a few years ago and they play this game called, like hurling. It's kind of like rugby, dude.

[Travis Kelce]

Lacrosse.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelce]

Dude, that game is lit. I was.

[Joe Thomas]

Go ahead, please.

[Travis Kelce]

Dude, we were. We were talking about. We were talking about, like, bucket list items. One of my bucket list items is to go to, like, I was thinking about it afterwards, didn't say it in the show, but to go to one of these games. But, like, the Olympics version of this. Like, the. Like, the World cup version of this. Like, I want to see the best of the best. The best go at it with this, because it is absolutely electric. Jason, do you know what he's talking about?

[Jason Kelce]

I actually. So where I live in Philadelphia is one of the biggest Irish, like, collections of, like, a population, like, direct descendants. So they have, like, leagues of hurling and actually another sport in Ireland that's really popular called Gaelic football, which is like. Yeah. So you play it with, like, a ball. You kind of have to kick it every two steps where that's a version of dribbling, but then you. I don't know. I don't really understand all the rules behind. I watched it once. Pretty cool. But hurling is very interesting. Seems really hard. I played lacrosse.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelce]

Seems like much easier to put that ball in a net than, like, balancing it on a wooden stick. I don't really understand how that's possible.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah. And it's probably incredibly derogatory and offensive that we've just taken. Scottish sports, dude. In Scotland.

[Jason Kelce]

I wasn't gonna say it, but I'm like. I'm pretty sure this is not the same area. Yeah. The only Scottish. The only Scottish sports I know are golf and the Scottish strongman games. I forget.

[Joe Thomas]

Island games.

[Jason Kelce]

Island games. Thank you. Yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

That would be sick. I would love to see that.

[Jason Kelce]

They, like, throw the pole in the kilts, and they're, like, throwing it over their heads, and they got to get it to, like, flip. I'd be into that for sure. Trav, what do you got?

[Travis Kelce]

That sounds like a renaissance fair. I'm just gonna go golf. Since you guys didn't go golf. I'll go over there, play some golf, man.

[Jason Kelce]

All right. So liquid out of fingers. Kentucky Derby horse name or NFL team of other pro athletes, which.

[Joe Thomas]

That's liquid out of fingers. Because I'm very curious. What?

[Travis Kelce]

I'm curious. Hit it, Brandon.

[Joe Thomas]

Hi, Jason and Travis. I just have one question for you. If your five fingers could dispense infinite liquid, what would your five liquids be? So, for example, mine are fresh gas. Gasoline to put gas in your car. Water, coffee, and Tito's. Yeah. What would your guys would be. Thank you. Love the show.

[Jason Kelce]

I love it. Awesome. Good question. I like.

[Travis Kelce]

That's a solid question. Yeah.

[Jason Kelce]

All right, Joe, again, you're the guest. You do the honor, sir. Unless you would prefer to go last.

[Joe Thomas]

I'll do it. So I'm going to try to count to five. Hell's Beer. Being in Germany, fell in love with that beer. Coffee. That's non negotiable. I'm gonna go diesel fuel because I spend a hell of a lot of money on diesel fuel out at the farm. Like, that's a big check every month.

[Jason Kelce]

Smart. Just put your finger in the filling up again.

[Travis Kelce]

Yep, here we go.

[Jason Kelce]

Just gonna fill up the old tractor.

[Joe Thomas]

Another 300 gallons for nothing. See that, kids?

[Jason Kelce]

Dude, I love this. This should be our first one free diesel for life.

[Joe Thomas]

And then, let's see, water. Is that four or five? We need Brandon, that's four. And then the last one, milk. Because whole milk. My kids drink an insane amount of whole milk. I got four kids, and so I think we go through like a gallon a day right now. My oldest is only 12, and when I was in high school, I think I drank a gallon every day by myself. So that would save also money.

[Travis Kelce]

We would go through about 2 gallons of week, but not again on the day. That's pretty intense.

[Jason Kelce]

What time about you? You've brought up Helis beer. The only reason I know what Helles beer is is because I had this, like, brew game on my phone and you had to, like, brew different beers, and Helis was one of the beers. What kind of beer is a Helis beer?

[Joe Thomas]

Do you play a brew game on your phone instead of like tic tac toe like most people? That's amazing. I love it. I need to check out that app.

[Jason Kelce]

But I'll set it to you.

[Joe Thomas]

Yes. Yeah. That was awesome. Yeah. So the Helles beer is like the beer of at least southern Germany, but down in Bavaria, where I was coaching in Munich. And it's fantastic. It's like the most clean, clear, crisp, refreshing. Yeah, it's like just amazingly refreshing. Like a blonde lager. That's just fantastic. They have the German purity laws, so they're only allowed to use a few ingredients. So it's like very consistently awesome. No matter where you go, there's, like, no preservatives, so it's not something that you can get in a lot of places. Like, it's usually out of the keg, and it's free, fresh from the brewery. And it's basically kind of. It was my water that I drank every day when I was a little.

[Jason Kelce]

All right. I Guess I'll go. I'll go water. I'm not going to steal diesel gasoline one. That's a freaking great answer. I want to steal it so bad.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah, that was good. I didn't go that far.

[Jason Kelce]

Gosh. All right, so I'll go water beer. I'll go drink garage beer because that's our beer. Travis and I own a beer company, so we got to go drive.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah, you guys should brew a hellas, man. I love that.

[Travis Kelce]

Ooh. All right.

[Jason Kelce]

Talking us into it. I love this. All right, we gotta. All right, The Joe Thomas Helles brought to you by garage Beer. Get on it, guys. So we got beer, we got water. What other liquids do I consume on a regular basis? I'll go. Gasoline was a great one too. Coffee. Why did that take me so long? Coffee. That's because I didn't have any coffee. I need some coffee. I'll go whey protein. Because I spent a bunch of money on whey protein. Protein.

[Travis Kelce]

It's not a.

[Jason Kelce]

All right, once you mix it up, it's still liquid, right? So I go with the pre made drink, whatever that is.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelce]

All right.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah, there you go. Fair life. Fair life. Protein. Rich protein or whatever. Shout out to fair life. There's your free advertising for the day. And then I'll go milk, But I'm gonna go cereal milk. I'm gonna go Reese's peanut butter puffs milk. Chocolatey Del.

[Travis Kelce]

That was pretty good.

[Jason Kelce]

Go ahead.

[Travis Kelce]

All right, I'm going to the. The drinks that I drink every single day. So I'm going accelerator.

[Jason Kelce]

Active energy.

[Travis Kelce]

Active energy drink. I'm going recover 180, which is my favorite sports hydration drink. I'm going Zen water. Because Zen waters the. It's got really good HP levels. And what else am I going? Oh, I'm going Casa Azul Tequila. My favorite tequila. It's most purest blue agave. No fucking added bullshit. And my last one, garage beer. I'm going lime garage beer.

[Jason Kelce]

All right. Travis is a walking billboard for all the.

[Joe Thomas]

Makes all the money as a family. I'm marketing.

[Jason Kelce]

All right, before. First of all, that was no dumb questions. You can submit your no dumb questions in the comments on social or give us a call at 929-939-97260. Joe, this is all we got for you, but I do have one more question. You're wearing the shirt. We haven't talked about it yet. How's hall of fame beef going? How do you like being a cattle rancher? Yeah, tell them 92% rancher or a farmer, which.

[Joe Thomas]

So. So typically, ranchers are people that raise cattle. But in Wisconsin, where my farm is, where I grew up, like, they call any land any egg land is a farm, Right? So, yeah, I am conflicted. I don't know if I'm a rancher or farmer, but I just generally call myself a farmer. But it's been going great. Like 2007, my kids told me they wanted some pet cows for the farm, and I was like, okay, but we're gonna have to eat them, because I love eating beef. And, like, if we're gonna raise these things, we might as well enjoy it.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

So I started with five. And then the first year we raised, we ate it. Turns out it was fantastic. Whatever we did, we, like, nailed it. Found lightning in a bottle right off the bat. I gave it to a buddy who's a James Beard chef in Madison, and it was just like, hey, what do you think? He cooked it up, thought it was fantastic. Said it was better than any of the stuff that he gets in the restaurant. Supplied fancy cattle ranches. And so then that's when, like, the. The brain started working overtime. Like, hey, man, maybe I could make this like a business. This is too good to just keep to myself. And so we've been just kind of going full bore since then. We're raising wagyu beef, which is like five. Yeah, beautiful stuff. We're raising Angus beef right now, and we're selling direct consumer. We got, like, these amazing beef sticks for the kids. So, like, I'm getting a lot out of it.

[Jason Kelce]

That was my question. Yeah, I wanted to know, is it Angus? Is it Angus? Hereford crosses, like, what are we working with? Black Angus.

[Joe Thomas]

Yeah, so we have Black Angus Simmentals right now, and we're kind of shifting the herd as we're, like, improving genetics. I'm trying to treat these things like pro athletes. I'm trying to think of, like, I know what it takes to have high performance, what it takes to be at your best, to grow the most muscle and strength and power and all those out outputs. And so we're like, hey, these are our pro athletes. So we need to reduce the stress. We need to figure out from a nutritionist what's all the nutrition that they possibly can have so that they're the healthiest beef for us and for themselves. They have the most marbling, so the best buttery mouthfeel possible. We raise them on the banks of the Blue River. We got this amazing pasture on our farm. We keep really, really low density, so their Stress is really low.

[Jason Kelce]

Wow.

[Joe Thomas]

Everything we feed them is raised on our farm, and they're born on our farm. And from the day they go to heave, they live in our place. So we think that we're raising some really great stuff. And it's kind of been a passion project. When you retire, you gotta have some purpose somewhere, you know? Like, hell, yeah. So many guys, they just wander in the wilderness. They don't have that purpose. And for me, it's like, all right, I want to see if I can raise the best beef on planet Earth. And so, you know, hall of Famer, I was like, hey, man, let's name this hall of Fame beef and see if we can find a way to raise the best beef on planet Earth. So it's been a lot of fun. And I was chatting up with Emily Reese, the great Emily Reese, who with her at Under Armour way back in the day, and she said that you got a beef company, too.

[Jason Kelce]

So maybe we need a good old.

[Joe Thomas]

Fashioned, like, beef measuring contest. Well, like Travis, you know, we both give him steaks, and then he cooks them up, and then we get a rating here.

[Jason Kelce]

I have a feeling you're gonna kick my ass, but I would love to learn a lot of tricks of the trade. We're just getting started with it. Like you said, you need hobbies, and I love beef. You just explaining this? I want a steak so bad right now, I can't even explain it.

[Joe Thomas]

So, yes.

[Jason Kelce]

Yeah, I'm all in on that. I would love to learn something from you and hall of Fame beef and get together on that.

[Joe Thomas]

Since you haven't decided on your breed. Like, we've. We're gone down that genetic rabbit hole already. So maybe I send you some embryos and some semen of the old hall of Fame beef Wagyu, and then you can kind of, like, take that and explode it. That'd be fun. That would give me great joy. So if I could send you some of my semen.

[Jason Kelce]

Dude, I'm in the moment. You said semen. Absolutely.

[Travis Kelce]

You guys are.

[Joe Thomas]

Travis, like, I'm not laughing at that.

[Travis Kelce]

That's you guys. You guys are having an old beef off right now, Dude. Joe. Hall of Fame player to hall of Fame beef to hall of Fame, dude. Man, I remember coming on your show back in. I can't even tell you when we're going on Radio Row and hanging out with you and Andrew Hawkins on Tomahawk. Dude, you've paved the way for so many guys on the field, off the field. Keep being you brother. And thank you for. For joining us. And thank you for everything you did for Cleveland, man. From one Cleveland Clevelander to somebody who lit up the city, brother. Thank you.

[Jason Kelce]

Hell yeah.

[Joe Thomas]

Well, thank you guys so much, man. It was. It was truly a pleasure being on here. Today is the best part of my week. You know, when you get a chance. That's what I loved about doing a podcast. You go on with some buddies and you just have a great chat that's uninterrupted by phones because you got to turn that off and all the distractions of daily life and you get to just chop it up with some good friends. So truly, thank you guys so much for having me on. It was a blast, my man.

[Jason Kelce]

Hell yeah. Yeah. Awesome.

[Travis Kelce]

Enjoy. Enjoy this weekend out in old Green Bay, brother. I'm sure it'll be a blast getting back around the game, man.

[Jason Kelce]

All right, that wraps up another episode of New Heights. Make sure you're subscribed on YouTube to new heights so you know when all the new episodes are coming out. And make sure on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts to keep on listening. We will be back next week with draft reactions and a huge guest.

[Travis Kelce]

Gotta love a huge guest. You know it, baby.

[Jason Kelce]

Draft reactions. Like the draft is just a slot machine for the NFL. Ching cha ching. It's just everybody's playing, you know, gambits. Yeah, like, it's like slots, slots. You can listen to new episodes of New Heights early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the one re app or on Apple podcasts once again.

[Travis Kelce]

New Heights, a one three show producer by way sports and entertainment are brought to you by Suave Men. No nonsense. Follow the show on all social media at new height show with 1s for fun clips throughout the week. Thanks to our production and crew for those clips and for making this edit so much better than what it really was. And thank you to the 92 percenters always for listening in. Hope you love Joe Thomas. Appreciate you, Big Tom. Big, Big Joey. Tom. Shout out to Cleveland. Follow New Heights on the Wonder app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to New Heights early and ad free. Plus enjoy exclusive episodes of the show by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify today.

[Jason Kelce]

Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey.

[Joe Thomas]

Whole Foods started in the counterculture city of Austin, Texas and it took pride in being anti corporate, corporate and outside the mainstream. But like the city itself, Whole Foods has morphed over the years, for better and perhaps for worse, and is now a multi billion dollar brand. In the latest season of Business wars, we explore the meteoric rise of the Whole Foods brand. On its surface, it's a story of how an idealistic founder made good on his dream of changing American food culture. But it's also a case study in the conflict between ambition and ideal realism, how lofty goals can wilt under the harsh light of financial realities, and what gets lost on the way to the top. Follow Business wars on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge Business wars the Whole Foods Rebellion early and ad free right now on Wondery plus.