Record-Breaking Signings, March Madness Mayhem & A Severance Waffle Party with Ben Stiller | Ep 130

Summary

Podcast Summary: New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce – Episode 130: "Record-Breaking Signings, March Madness Mayhem & A Severance Waffle Party with Ben Stiller"

Release Date: March 19, 2025
Host/Author: Wondery

In Episode 130 of New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce, the podcast delves deep into the latest happenings in the NFL free agency, touches upon the excitement of March Madness, and features an engaging interview with acclaimed actor and director Ben Stiller. This episode is packed with insightful discussions, humorous banter between the Kelce brothers, and exclusive perspectives from their star-studded guest.

---

1. Celebrating Awards and NFL Free Agency Insights

[05:19] – [18:51]

The episode kicks off with Jason and Travis expressing their gratitude upon winning the iHeartRadio 2025 Best Sports Podcast award. Jason remarks,

“This award is really just a representation of all you people that tune in each week to listen to us 2 idiots talk about nonsense.”
[05:20]

Transitioning to NFL free agency, the brothers dissect the latest signings and contract negotiations. A standout moment occurs when they analyze the Cincinnati Bengals' record-breaking contracts for wide receivers Jamar Chase and T. Higgins. Jason highlights,

“The salary cap keeps going up. There's a never been done in a year or two years after this.”
[13:09]

They also address social media conflicts among players, specifically spotlighting DeMarcus Lawrence's signing with the Seattle Seahawks and the ensuing Twitter tension:

“What is the point of fighting on Twitter, like, just out in the open for everybody to see?”
[11:02] – [12:06]

---

2. Introducing Ben Stiller

[21:46] – [22:35]

The hosts warmly welcome Ben Stiller, celebrating his illustrious career with accolades such as 12 Teen Choice Awards, 13 MTV Awards, and an Emmy. Ben expresses his enthusiasm for joining the show:

“Great to be with you guys.”
[22:39]

---

3. In-Depth Interview with Ben Stiller

[22:36] – [80:43]

A. Exploring 'Heavyweight' and 'Tropic Thunder'

Ben delves into his experiences directing "Heavyweight", discussing the film's exploration of personal struggles and growth. He shares anecdotes about improvisation on set:

“It was really fun to do. We had a great time.”
[25:26]

The conversation shifts to "Tropic Thunder", where Ben discusses the creative process behind controversial characters and the importance of clear comedic intentions:

“As long as you're clear, know where the joke is, you can hear criticism and it can be valid.”
[40:07]

Jason muses humorously about his favorite scenes, referencing an improvised line from "Heavyweight":

“It's my favorite scene in the movie. How you doing? How you doing, Little Tony? Bad.”
[01:48] – [02:14]

B. The Making of 'Severance'

Ben provides exclusive insights into his directorial approach for Apple TV’s "Severance", emphasizing collaboration and the meticulous design of the show's unique settings:

“It's a group effort. And I just, I love the process.”
[67:05]

He recounts the challenges of maintaining the show's surreal and abstract tone, ensuring that humor remains at the core despite the serious undertones:

“The fun of the show is that you have people like Milchick and Cobell for sure, and... you're trying to define, like, does this still feel like the show.”
[75:24]

Ben also touches upon fan theories and the impact of the show's structured release on audience engagement:

“You want the audience to enjoy the show. But everybody seems to have a different way into the show.”
[71:27]

C. Connecting Sports and Filmmaking

The conversation seamlessly intertwines sports and filmmaking, with Ben expressing admiration for the athleticism of actors like Aaron Rodgers:

“He's on another level of the intellectual ability for the game.”
[35:38]

Travis draws parallels between on-field strategies and cinematic storytelling, discussing the importance of physicality and mental fortitude in both realms.

---

4. March Madness Bracket Challenge and Closing Remarks

[80:43] – [88:42]

As March Madness approaches, Jason and Travis introduce their New Heights Bracket Challenge, sponsored by Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. They entertain listeners with humorous takes on filling out brackets, leveraging their unique perspectives despite limited knowledge of college basketball:

“If you think Iowa State would beat Lipscomb, I'm going to go.”
[90:21]

Travis shares his strategy, focusing on team height and physicality:

“They have to be willing to do stupid things... big team mentality.”
[91:00]

The segment is sprinkled with lighthearted banter about Reese's products, maintaining the show's signature humor:

“Reese's Pieces. Fast break. You putting that up there? No, no. Take five.”
[86:42]

---

Notable Quotes and Insights

• Jason Kelce on Free Agency:
  “Don't be misguided, people.”
  [16:49]

• Travis Kelce on Physicality in Football:
  “You don't get to just walk down the street and Blindside a guy. Right.”
  [37:15]

• Ben Stiller on Directing 'Severance':
  “I love the process of it. Because, you know, every day I kind of know what I'm going to be doing.”
  [47:05]

• Jason Kelce on Enjoying the Game:
  “If you guys are genuinely enjoying being out there and having fun, there's an enthusiasm and an energy that permeates and makes everybody usually perform better.”
  [44:05]

---

Conclusion

Episode 130 of New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce masterfully blends the high-energy world of NFL free agency with the creative depths of Hollywood through their conversation with Ben Stiller. Listeners are treated to a nuanced exploration of sports contracts, the filmmaking process, and the intricate parallels between athletic performance and cinematic storytelling. The episode concludes with an interactive March Madness challenge, encouraging audience engagement and continuing the podcast's tradition of insightful, entertaining content.

For those who haven't tuned in, this episode offers a comprehensive look into the intersecting worlds of professional sports and entertainment, all while keeping the conversational and humorous essence that Jason & Travis Kelce are known for.

Transcript

[Travis Kelsey]

Wondry plus subscribers can listen to new heights early and ad free. Plus unlock access to exclusive episodes of the show.

[Jason Kelsey]

Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify today.

[Travis Kelsey]

Okay, check this.

[Ben Stiller]

Deli Boys on Hulu. Two brothers, Raj and Mir, are living the high life. Not a care in the world. When their old man dies, it all vanishes.

[Jason Kelsey]

Poof.

[Ben Stiller]

And they find out he didn't just own a deli, but was a drug kingpin. And they're like, what the. Throw in their ruthless aunt.

[Travis Kelsey]

Some guys who just want to kill them.

[Ben Stiller]

God knows why.

[Travis Kelsey]

And keeping dad's drug business going sounds amazing, right?

[Ben Stiller]

Deli Boys is now streaming on Hulu.

[Jason Kelsey]

All righty. Let's talk about the holy grail of candy. Reese's Peanut Butter Cups.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's right. You know them. You love them. And let's be real, you probably have a stash hidden somewhere right now.

[Jason Kelsey]

Tell me about it. Reese's cracked the code and literally created the perfect combo. We're talking about the Chocolate shell creamy peanut butter center.

[Travis Kelsey]

There is something special about unwrapping that orange packaging and sinking your teeth into a Reese's Cup.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's right. That epic combo has been something that has been a go to snack for many, no matter what they're doing.

[Travis Kelsey]

And here's a pro tip from two Reese's pros here. Try keeping your Reese cups in the fridge. It keeps that chocolatey goodness nice and chilled for you. But be sure to hide it all the way in the back so nobody can take your. You know what I'm saying? Can't have Ed Kelsey sneaking in there at 3am stealing your stash.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's right. So why wait? See why Reese's Peanut Butter Cups are our favorite.

[Travis Kelsey]

Buy Reese's Peanut Butter Cups now at a store near you. Found literally anywhere you can find candy.

[Jason Kelsey]

It's my favorite scene in the movie. How you doing? How you doing, Little Tony? Bad. Yeah, why you? Well, everything's falling down around me. There's nothing I can do about. I'm sorry. I don't want to do your.

[Ben Stiller]

No, no. Do it, please.

[Travis Kelsey]

Please.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. Everything's falling down around me. There's nothing I can do about it. Well, you know, whose fault is. It's not my. It's not my fault. It's their fault. That's right. It's their fault. You have failed.

[Travis Kelsey]

Let's do this thing. Welcome back to new heights, ladies and gentlemen. A wonder show produced by Wave Sports and Entertainment and brought to you by Nike. When the world says you can't win. Nike says so when we're your hosts. I'm Travis. This is my big brother Jason out of the University of Cincinnati. Unfortunately, the Natty didn't make it in the bracket, man, but still proud of the gang.

[Jason Kelsey]

The other brackets still a thing. They still do the second.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, the second tier bracket. You're still fucking hilarious.

[Jason Kelsey]

What am I? I'm just being honest. What else is it? I don't know.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, no, I think they do.

[Jason Kelsey]

They're still doing the losers bracket.

[Travis Kelsey]

Dude. I used to hate that when we were little in like baseball, like travel baseball. If you didn't make it into like the final four or something, you went to a losers bracket just to play on Sundays.

[Jason Kelsey]

Exactly, man.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm not trying to be in this fucking losers bracket. Fucking losers.

[Jason Kelsey]

Pretty sure that's how everybody feels in the NIT.

[Travis Kelsey]

Subscribe on YouTube where wondering plus wherever you get your podcast, follow the show on all social media. New Heights show with 1s for fun clips throughout the week. Jason, tell the people what we got coming up.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, we got an incredible episode for you guys. First of all, we're going to look into some of the biggest news around the NFL, including free agency, which is pretty much the only news happening right now in the NFL. We're also going to kick off our first ever new heights March Madness bracket challenge. That's right. You guys will be playing for the coveted new heights golden cup. That's right. The winner is going to receive this 14 karat golden cup.

[Travis Kelsey]

Look at that. Thing's pretty. How. Why is Jason the only one that has one of these?

[Jason Kelsey]

We got a bunch of them. Do you want one?

[Travis Kelsey]

Can I fucking have one, Jason? Why are you asking Them all sent to your house.

[Jason Kelsey]

I don't control these.

[Travis Kelsey]

I want a fucking golden cup.

[Jason Kelsey]

Who's in charge of the.

[Travis Kelsey]

Everybody just sends all the trophies to Jason. Do you get the Stanley cup? The Larry O'Brien? The fucking New heights cup?

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. I don't know who controls the golden cup, Shipments. But we can get you a golden cup. We also are going to be getting the winner of our March Madness bracket challenge gold cup. I think there's going to be two gold cups. There's going to be a gold cup for the men's NCAA bracket and a gold cup for the women's NCAA bracket. But we'll get into that in a second. We've also got an amazing conversation with the one, the only. Oh, yeah, the Audi of Ben Stiller is coming on our podcast. That's right. The director of the hit Show Severance is coming on new heights to talk about that among all of his other career accolades that we enjoyed growing up. And since then, we talk about heavyweights, Tropic Thunder, pretty much everything that you'd want to know from Ben. Silly. We're going to get into it.

[Travis Kelsey]

Hell yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Also, happy St. Patrick's Day. For those of you that weren't here at the top of the show, tune in a little bit late. It is Monday, so we are filming this on St. Patrick's Day, although it will be releasing, I guess, while you're watching this, this Wednesday. Let's get it started, Trap.

[Travis Kelsey]

Let's get it going, baby.

[Jason Kelsey]

Time for new news.

[Travis Kelsey]

New news.

[Jason Kelsey]

New news is brought to you by American Express.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, let's get to the biggest piece of new news, which is that we are once again an award winning podcast. That's right. We are the iHeartRadio 2025 Best Sports Podcast award winners. Thanks a lot. I heart. Yeah, baby. And most of all, thank you to all united 2 percenters for tuning in, getting us to win this award. This award is really just a representation of all you people that tune in each week to listen to us 2 idiots talk about nonsense. So thank you for tuning in. We sure love doing this podcast and the only reason we're able to do it is because all you guys listen so very much. Appreciate it. And it's an honor, I heart that, to receive this award on behalf of the 92 percenters who make this podcast happen, as well as our amazing. Our amazing production crew, Wondery Wave, everyone involved in actually making this thing watchable. Well done, guys. So, yeah, let's move on to some free agency news. What do you think, Trav?

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, let's dive into it, big dog.

[Jason Kelsey]

Alrighty. First week, an NFL free agency in the books. Again, this is being recorded Monday. So if something were to happen, perhaps Tuesday or even Wednesday when the show comes out, we will not be talking about it in this show. And really, it's Wednesday at about 12:30. So something. Because that or this is Monday.

[Travis Kelsey]

A lot of happening.

[Jason Kelsey]

This is Monday, 12:30 Eastern. So there could be something that happens later today that we don't want to know about. But either way, to date there have been some interesting things. We have a fan question about free agency from Jenna xkc. I think that's Jenna at kc. Okay, so I've wondered this. Do players not go to their new teams and tell their old teams plans? Like, how does that work? Actually, is there a rule or just common knowledge to respect the situation and nothing is discussed. I don't know if there's a rule that you're not allowed to disclose information, but I can tell you that everyone does disclose. And this is absolutely something that happens in the NFL. Jenna.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yes.

[Jason Kelsey]

Actually, a lot of the times you will see teams sign practice squad players one to two weeks before they play an opponent for this very reason. They want to get code words, they want to get information on no huddle plays, coverage signals. All of these things are being tried to figure out keywords that are set at the line. There's always information that they're trying to get out of players that have been in other organizations.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah. I don't know if it gets to this. To the point of, like, you're sharing all your notes that you took.

[Jason Kelsey]

It probably does. It probably does get to this. I bet guys will bring in binders.

[Travis Kelsey]

I've never. I've never seen it to that point.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, I've never seen any of it, to be honest with you.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

This all happens behind closed doors or something like that, where, like, a coach or the player is going to meet with somebody. I've talked to certain guys that are the teams, like, hey, like, I noticed that they do this blitz. Like, what happens, you know, is there a tell when you guys are doing this game? Or there, nine times out of 10, it's not that useful. What the defensive player is trying to give me.

[Travis Kelsey]

I will say this. I was playing. I was playing. I forget who it was. And I think Chase Daniel was on the sideline. I think it was Chicago. We might have been playing in Chicago. Nagy was there. Maybe Tyler Brave might have been on the sideline as well. I'm trying to remember who it was that. That called it out, but either Alex Smith or. Or Pat Mahomes was up at the line of scrimmage and he. He signaled a quick route to me, like a hot route to me, essentially, or. Or verbally said something to me to tell me to, like, break off my route differently. And on the sideline, I see both of the quarterbacks screaming what that route was going to be.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

And I'm just. In my head, I'm like, you, you son of a.

[Jason Kelsey]

Back. No. Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

I think it was preseason, but at the same time, like, you're. You're going to do whatever you have to do to win in your current situation, and if that's, you know, finding a tick here and there from your previous situation and helping out your teammates in that regard, you're going to fucking do it. Man. And I don't think there's any, like, bush leagues. Like, I don't think it's, like, going behind someone's back or doing it. Like, I don't think. Yeah, I'm with, like, I don't know. I don't think it's wrong if you hand over the entire playbook.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, that's.

[Travis Kelsey]

I think that's a little weird. Yeah. But if you're just talking ball and you're trying to give your guys a heads up on, like, an audible or something like that, I think that's all fair game.

[Jason Kelsey]

I think stuff that happened. I think. I'm with you, Trav. Stuff that happens at the line of scrimmage, verbiage signals, all of that stuff is usually fair game. That does happen in the NFL. Good question and glad we got into it. All right. We also got some Cowboys Twitter fighting. Love when people fight on Twitter. Just out in the open. It's the best, isn't it? DeMarcus Lawrence signs with Seattle shits on Dallas on his way out the door. He's just kind of being honest. Clearly a little bit unhappy with the way things ended. I believe he was quoted as saying, dallas is my home. My kids are in Dallas, My family's in Dallas.

[Travis Kelsey]

But I know for sure I'm not going to win a Super bowl in Dallas.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, strong words. Strong words. I mean, I think he's just being honest, but, yeah, Micah Parsons clearly didn't appreciate that this, what rejection and envy look like. This is some clown shit. Perfect. Perfect. It's a good way to respond. Demarcus Lords. Calling me a clown won't change the fact that I told the truth. Maybe if you spent less time tweeting and more time winning, I wouldn't have left.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, that's the old Twitter beef. Let me get you going.

[Jason Kelsey]

What is the point of fighting on Twitter, like, just out in the open for everybody to see?

[Travis Kelsey]

Well, you know, Jason, you're professional.

[Jason Kelsey]

Nobody fights on Twitter. Right. It's like when we were in high school and the kids would pull the fire alarm just so they could go out in the street and fight in front of all the students. Do you remember that?

[Travis Kelsey]

In front of the entire city.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Cleveland Heights is on Cedar and Lee, two of the streets on the east side of Cleveland.

[Jason Kelsey]

You guys could just go fight. You don't need to do this.

[Travis Kelsey]

I need an audience. I need.

[Jason Kelsey]

I want everybody to see me whoop his ass.

[Travis Kelsey]

They would do it in the middle of the street.

[Jason Kelsey]

Not just a street, Cedar, like, the biggest. Like, One of the biggest ways into downtown Cleveland is just completely blocked. I got so bad they had to put the cops at the intersection.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, no, well, it was stopping traffic. People were trying to just, you know, do their cars. Daily errands.

[Jason Kelsey]

Cars lined up, blocks down, trying to do things.

[Travis Kelsey]

4,000 kids out front watching a fight unfold in the middle of Cedar Road. Gosh, man. And then we just go across the street over to Wendy's and get a.

[Jason Kelsey]

Frosty and well then they, then they stuck it. Then they had to close Wendy's to. They wouldn't let kids walk into the Wendy's. You had to go through the drive through. Oh, better times. Better times. Love Cleveland Heights.

[Travis Kelsey]

Gotta love the heights, baby. Gotta love the Heights. We got a breaking contract news. We got some news in the contract world. The Bengals have fucking unloaded that Brinks trucks.

[Jason Kelsey]

Love it.

[Travis Kelsey]

And have signed both Jamar Chase and T. Higgins to four year deals. Jamar getting 161 with 112 guaranteed, making him the highest paid non quarterback in NFL history. And then T. Higgins getting 115 mil. Respectfully for in his first two years guaranteed, fully guaranteed.

[Jason Kelsey]

So good for the Bengals. I mean I did not think they were going to be able to keep both these guys. And they're paying a hefty price tag to do it.

[Travis Kelsey]

For those who are wondering, yes. Joe Burrow making $55 million per year. Jamar Chase making just over 40 mil a year. And T. Higgins making close to 30 mil a year. That's over $125 million per year in new money on just three offensive players. When you say it like that, that is fucking, it's bonkers. I'm not going to say it's, it shouldn't be done. It's just never been done.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, but all of these things, there's going to be a never been done in a year or two years after this. The salary cap keeps going up. I think people don't realize often how much these, the contracts continue to go up for players over time. When I first got into the league, league minimum was 375,000. That's still a lot of money. Now it's over 700,000. There's league minimum.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

The average per year for the highest paid centers. When I was getting my first deal done, my third year in the league was like $6 million a year. Now the average of all the top centers is over 12. So in 10 years it's doubled. News flash, this is going to get broken in another year or two. Just on how the silent cap keeps going.

[Travis Kelsey]

I don't. I've never heard of this much of the salary cap being allocated to three offensive players.

[Jason Kelsey]

The Cowboys did it with CD Lamb, Dak Prescott, and they're going to do it with Micah Parsons.

[Travis Kelsey]

This is going to be three offensive players.

[Jason Kelsey]

Okay. Three offensive players. Sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, well, the Eagles got to be pretty Dang close with A.J. brown. Devonte Smith is going to be up for a contract soon. And Jalen hurts. Get ready to see that one or they're going to let Devonte Smith go. I don't think that's happening.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, Devonte Smith isn't making 50 mil.

[Jason Kelsey]

You don't think Devonte is going to get close to what T. Higgins is making? The only reason AJ isn't making 55 is because AJ got redone a couple years ago or last year.

[Travis Kelsey]

I hear you. All right. He's still only making 30.

[Jason Kelsey]

They're going to be up again here in another year or two. And I bet it gets close to this. Find out.

[Travis Kelsey]

I. Yeah, we're going to find out. I don't think they stay.

[Jason Kelsey]

But it all. It all happens like this, dude, I'm telling you, this is only going to. I bet this. I bet this very metric gets broken within. Within three years.

[Travis Kelsey]

I bet you. I bet you it never gets close that 125mil per year to three offensive players to note. And that percentage of what the cap is right now. Well, we don't know percentage.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, and this is another.

[Travis Kelsey]

Will never be just three players, ever.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, and this is another thing that I would like to stipulate. We don't even know what the percentage is for this year. These are the numbers of this arbitrary tweet that Brandon and Jake have decided to put into average per years. Nobody right here knows what they're actually being accounted for for the cap. Nobody knows what the cash is. Nobody knows what the guarantee.

[Travis Kelsey]

Somebody can figure that out. It's all. And they will.

[Jason Kelsey]

And I think that I hear what you're saying.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm just saying that.

[Jason Kelsey]

All I'm saying is there's a huge SkipService to the NFL free agency every I. It pisses me off so much listening to all of these people just say the average per year is this. When all they did is divide the total money by three. Look at this. Look at this. By extending Jamar Chase teams, the Bengals. Bengals will actually lower both players cap hits this season. Okay, so this is my whole point. People have no clue what these numbers mean. And they Just want launch into these arbitrary things of, like, how much money anyways? Just saying. Don't be misguided, people.

[Travis Kelsey]

You got me. You got me. It sounds pretty ridiculous, but you got me.

[Jason Kelsey]

I really do. And, Trav, we talked about this. I think it'd be good to bring on somebody who really understands the salary cap and all, because I want to know it. I want to hear, like, what all these structures mean, because I was talking to somebody the other day, and they said it's all about cash and, like, how much. Eventually, that cash comes due and whatever you're paying. But there's ways to manipulate it, and it gets manipulated in signing bonus, in roster bonuses. Every team does it. Some teams have more cash to divvy out up front. I don't really know all the ins and outs of it, but I would love to have somebody on to explain to me, you and the 92 percenters, what all these numbers mean. Should we do a NFL salary cap.

[Travis Kelsey]

Educational episode, or should we go and find somebody else?

[Jason Kelsey]

Or should we just have a fun conversation with a former player and just dick around like always?

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, you guys let us know if you guys want to learn this stuff.

[Jason Kelsey]

All right, Cool. All righty. Last bit of new news. Shout out. Kyle Frazier, the kid who puked working out with Aaron Donald but still finished a workout. According to him, he tweeted, referencing the social clip that we released about Aaron Donald, him working out. He said, definitely a workout I'll never forget. But you forget the part where I got back and finished.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, yeah. That's what I'm talking about.

[Jason Kelsey]

That Kyle.

[Travis Kelsey]

That boy Kyle.

[Jason Kelsey]

Apparently this guy. This guy freaking plays college football now. Pretty awesome.

[Travis Kelsey]

Where's he at? I don't know.

[Jason Kelsey]

Brandon, do we have that information? Georgia Southern playing college football down there. That's hot. Tell you what, I don't want to be in a Georgia Southern training camp.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's ridiculous, sir.

[Jason Kelsey]

I'll be puking a lot.

[Travis Kelsey]

Well, he had some experience about fighting through the pukage, that boy Kyle. And that does it. For new news brought to you by American Express.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, baby. All righty. March Madness is here. And while the men's tournament always draws massive attention to 2025, women's bracket is shaping up to be historic.

[Travis Kelsey]

UConn's very own Paige Beckers has been crushing in. Her return to elite form after battling through some serious injuries proves why she's one of the most hyped recruits.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's right. Beckers has the Nike mindset with a relentless pursuit. When the world says no. She says yes.

[Travis Kelsey]

What makes Becker so special is her combination of elite skills, incredible resilience. She becomes an inspiration for young players everywhere. Shows that setbacks don't define you. It's how you respond to them that matters.

[Jason Kelsey]

The level of town in women's college basketball right now is unmatched. Right now, this tournament could feature some of the most exciting matchups we've seen in years.

[Travis Kelsey]

Don't make the mistake of overlooking the women's tournament this year. Stay tuned for what they've got going on once March Madness tips off.

[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

Jason?

[Jason Kelsey]

Yes?

[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

My least favorite part of traveling is probably the flight.

[Travis Kelsey]

Nice.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. Or I mean, I would just say transportation in general.

[Travis Kelsey]

Nice. I would say packing. Well, it's easier to fly now because you can enjoy exclusive access to Centurion lounges.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, perfect.

[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

Like the let them theory by mel Robbins or 10% happier by Dan Harris. I'll take 10% happier. I'll take a th percent happier. I'm going to one up. Dan Harris. Yeah, I'm actually I'm going to tenfold.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm going go 10,000%.

[Jason Kelsey]

I'm going 100 times.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm going to 1 million percent happier.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Get advice and insight from leading professionals and experts on health, relationships, career, finance, investing. So much more. There's so much opportunity to learn and more to imagine when you listen.

[Jason Kelsey]

Start listening today when you sign up for a free 30 day trial at audible.com new heights.

[Travis Kelsey]

I think it's time to check out this. This interview you guys have been waiting for.

[Jason Kelsey]

Let's do it. Just so you know, this interview was taped before episode nine came out of Severance. So, yes, we won't have anything from the most recent episode, but we do have some nice talking points and show references as well as a whole lot of other Ben Stiller anecdotes in this episode. So you're going to want to watch this. Enjoy. Now, our guest today is from New York city. He's a 12 time Teen Choice Award, 13 time MTV Mewey Award, MTV Generational Award and Emmy winner. You know him from Heavyweight Zoolander, Tropic Thunder, Dodgeball, Nathan Parents. And now the executive producer director of Apple TV's hit show Severance. Please welcome to new heights, Mr. Ben Still. Let's go.

[Travis Kelsey]

Thank you.

[Ben Stiller]

Thank you. Thanks, man.

[Travis Kelsey]

Welcome to the show, Ben.

[Jason Kelsey]

Appreciate you jumping on.

[Ben Stiller]

Great to be with you guys.

[Jason Kelsey]

It is so hard to figure out these intros when you have as much of a, like. Yeah, I don't as much of a inventory of just hitting movies.

[Ben Stiller]

Those are some pretty heavy awards credits there. Not screwing around there. It's great. Yeah, you, this, you guys. You guys are doing good with this podcast. You're having fun.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

We started this thing up just trying to get our. Our brotherhood out there. A lot of people see us as complete opposites, but you get us in a room, you'll. You'll see we're a lot more similar than what we are. And.

[Ben Stiller]

And you're a little bit older. What's the age?

[Jason Kelsey]

Two years.

[Ben Stiller]

Two years.

[Jason Kelsey]

Almost exactly. October 5th. November 5th.

[Ben Stiller]

All right. I'm November 30th.

[Jason Kelsey]

Nice. Scorpio. We just talked about. We're big astrology guys.

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, yeah. No, no. Yeah. I don't understand the astrology thing because it's like you have your sun sign, but then there's the rising sign and the moon and. And it can. Right.

[Travis Kelsey]

It can ch. You got like really three signs or something like that. You could be.

[Ben Stiller]

And I don't know. And how does it really. I mean, let's not get into it. My sisters. My sister is really into it.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, okay. Yeah, I guess we can move on from astrology and move over to. We are going to give at some point. We will talk about severance.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, we got to.

[Jason Kelsey]

So we might have some. So if you're. When we get to that section, we'll give you a warning because we don't want to ruin anything. The show is absolutely fantastic and there's Tons of things going on. We don't want to spoil anything for anybody who might be just getting into it or isn't all the way caught up. But before we get into that, we're going to talk about your first bit of cinematic excellence, which maybe it's not, but it's definitely the one that sticks with us the most. And we quote non stop, which is heavyweights.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Did you know, first of all, before I said the movie, did you know I was gonna say heavyweight?

[Ben Stiller]

I had seen. I think I saw you had like a percoce power.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And I. And I'd heard some, you know, rumblings that you guys were into it, which.

[Travis Kelsey]

Was pretty into it. It was my life. It was. Listen, I was a heavyweight growing up. Jason, he didn't get fed until he went to office.

[Jason Kelsey]

We switched.

[Travis Kelsey]

We switched places. So Jason is more newly founded into it.

[Ben Stiller]

So seriously, you were dealing with weight.

[Travis Kelsey]

Issues, I think Chubby. I think I was just. Yeah, I was dealing with my. My love for Honey Buns. I think that's what I was kind of dealing with more. But no, I saw heavyweights and was like, oh, man, Camp Hope is like, if there's a camp out there like that, I want to go to it. Just kids that can be fat together and hide candy in their beds and.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

You know, the kids that never like, really lived up to the excellence of their brother and just the expectations that their parents set for themselves.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

I mean, are you kid.

[Travis Kelsey]

The blob was a go kart.

[Ben Stiller]

Like.

[Travis Kelsey]

Like that was everything a kid wanted to do it.

[Ben Stiller]

It was sort of.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Like a dream camp. But then, you know, this guy comes in. Never really dealt with children before.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, that's one of the funniest intros.

[Ben Stiller]

It was really fun to do. We had a great time. I mean, I remember the summer shooting the movie very well. We shot it down in near Asheville, North Carolina. I'm still buddies with the guy who's my trainer when I was doing the movie, Mickey Marino. Shout out to Mickey who's down in East Hendersonville. Yeah, it was just. But like. Yeah. Today, first of all, the fact that that was a Disney movie, it is kind of crazy.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, that. That was.

[Travis Kelsey]

I chuckle at every time I see Disney across the top.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, it's an edgy Disney movie for sure.

[Ben Stiller]

It's not Little Mermaid. And I don't even think they were aware of it. Time. It was a different time. Right. It was pre social media. It was. I think there was less of a sort of a moment to moment awareness of, you know, if you're doing something right or wrong and all that. So it was, you know, and. And Judd Apatow and was producing it. Judd and I were friends and had been working together on a show we had done and had gotten canceled. And I had gone and directed a movie, my first movie. And he said, hey, we're gonna go down. Steve Brills, the director, really funny guy. We're gonna go down to Asheville and do this fun, you know, this camp company. You could play this, like, mean guy who, you know, is mean to these kids who are overweight and. And it seemed fun and funny in.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm in. Yeah, it's right there. And it was like.

[Ben Stiller]

And it happens to be Disney, whatever. And I think they went off and they made the movie, and Disney looked at it and was like, this isn't quite, you know, down the middle for the Disney brand. And they kind of put it out there or whatever, and then that was it. You must have seen it on video, right? Oh, 100 years after it came out or something. Yeah, it's 30 years old.

[Travis Kelsey]

Exactly.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. But then it's happening later in the 90s for sure. But, yeah, it never would have gotten made today.

[Jason Kelsey]

And why do you say that?

[Ben Stiller]

I think just because. Because the characters being so mean to these kids who are dealing with weight issues that. That I don't think. But don't you think that's getting off the drawing board?

[Jason Kelsey]

I understand, but I feel like the movie also inspired more people that were overweight. Like, it really ends something that most of the people that I knew that were overweight or it was, like, a healthy relationship with that. At the end of the day, I do agree that Tony was not the nicest to the kids.

[Ben Stiller]

No. I think Tony is dealing with his own weight issues and his own feelings towards his parents, and also that he's a kid who never. He never interacted with other kids, and he wants to be famous. And I feel for Tony. I feel like he's the most sympathetic.

[Travis Kelsey]

Character in the world. Where did Tony come? Where did you find him? Is there any inspiration?

[Ben Stiller]

There was a little bit of Tony Robbins in there. Tony Robbins, the motivational guy. Just in terms of the voice and how he talks and his kind of weird, sort of like, he. You know, Tony Robbins had this thing where he gets sort of like. Yeah, he could kind of, like, hypnotize you with his eyes.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yes.

[Ben Stiller]

And I don't know. And then we just sort of, like, played around. And it's funny, like, because I look back at clips. I saw a clip, like behind the scenes on it, and I was like, God, we were so young back then too. Just like kind of just doing it, you know what I mean? And just kind of going for it. And you don't really think about much. And the kids were so much fun. And it was, you know, kind of like every day. We were just in my. My folks were in it playing my parents.

[Travis Kelsey]

So cool, man.

[Ben Stiller]

We had. We had just had. Had the best time.

[Jason Kelsey]

Somebody sign your checks?

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, yeah. Don't let any advice I ever got.

[Jason Kelsey]

So I guess how much of that movie was of Tony was being scripted and how much of that is you.

[Travis Kelsey]

Off the cuff just ripping it?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, I don't remember. I think like, we were. We were improvising all the time. It sort of. I feel like there were some improv moments there, I think. Like that little moment where Tony goes and talks to himself when he's weighing the kids up.

[Jason Kelsey]

It's my favorite scene in the music. Bad.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Why you. Well, everything's falling down around me. There's something I can do about. I'm sorry, I don't want to.

[Ben Stiller]

Do your best.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, everything's falling down around me. There's nothing I can do about it. Well, you know, whose fault is it? It's not my. It's not my fault. It's their fault. That's right. It's their fault.

[Ben Stiller]

The thing that's kind of funny to me about that scene is it was. It was improvised. But, you know, if you've ever been in therapy or gone to therapy, that's. You know, a lot of people talk about talking to your inner child, you know, and finding your inner child, connecting with your inner child. And in. Over the years, I have. I've been in a therapy session where the therapist says, like, you should go, like, let's talk to your inner child. And I literally feel like I'm just doing a scene from heavyweights therapy. So I always feel like it's just. This is kind of silly because I've literally done this in a movie where it actually made sense that Tony was able to talk himself into understanding that he is not the problem, they are the problem. And he helped himself. So in a way, it's a very healthy connection that he's having, you know, with himself, maybe not with the kids. No. And. And I think, you know, the kids also, like, you know, let's face it, the kids were cheating. They should have been following the rules. Right.

[Jason Kelsey]

Re evaluate this movie. They were the problem. Everyone's hiding can.

[Travis Kelsey]

Come on.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. You're not hustling.

[Ben Stiller]

You go to a camp where you want to lose weight, you got to play by the rules. Right. It's like when you guys show up at training camp, right. If you're not going to put the work in, right, nobody's going to be able to force you to do it. Right. You got to have the mindset.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah. I definitely go to Chick Fil a during camp. I'm not gonna lie. I don't go to the meal room.

[Jason Kelsey]

I know some guys are probably hidden some stuff in their beds.

[Ben Stiller]

So it is kind of like being a camp when you go to, oh.

[Travis Kelsey]

100% a little bit.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, when he still goes away for camp, most teams don't go, like, don't go away anymore.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm living in a dorm room.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Cement wall. White cement, brick walls.

[Ben Stiller]

You get a single or a double or you.

[Travis Kelsey]

They actually put the double together.

[Jason Kelsey]

Two singles together to make.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's what I mean. Two singles together. So I mean, it's kind of bit of. It's a bit of like a. Yeah, it's an experience, like back in time.

[Ben Stiller]

And I'm not like a super football guy, but I know you guys plays. You have to, like, learn all the plays at training camp, and then those can be the plays for the rest of the season.

[Travis Kelsey]

For the majority. For the majority of it, yeah. You learn, like, the base installs so that everybody can get brought up to speed. And from there, you still create plays based off of the team that you're playing and what they've been doing. You try and scheme them up week by week. So the. The playbook definitely expands after the. After training camp, but for the. For the most part, you get all the. The verbiage and all the. You get the understanding of, like, formations and stuff. And then from there, all the plays kind of just get.

[Ben Stiller]

Is it different every year? Like, the coach will come in with a new.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, I joke about coach Reed coming in with like a index, like stack like this big, just like a rubber band around. And you just see plays drawn up on him and he's just like, I got some good stuff.

[Jason Kelsey]

But there is. There is a lot of carryover. The. The majority of your staples are still say the same. And the way the football coaches do, they have to teach it to all the new guys as well. So especially when you've been there for a long time, you start from square one in the off season and during training camp. So at two different times of the year, you'll learn what we call this gap, what we call this technique, what we call this play. And every minor deep. So he's had inside zone installed to him.

[Travis Kelsey]

I could go up here over 35 times, you know, I mean like, what is inside zone? Inside zone is when you give it to the running back at a more steep angle. Downhilly reads the front side, B gap to the backside, A gap reads the. Really? They're trying to run it towards a three technique to where we can get a double team up to the mic backer. Hopefully you're.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, no, no, I knew that. I was just saying for this kind of inside zone.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, for me, for me. I'm typically on the backside of the inside zone.

[Ben Stiller]

And you double, you definitely double back every time to the.

[Travis Kelsey]

There we go. Always. There's always a double back. There we go.

[Ben Stiller]

It's incredibly complicated, isn't it?

[Jason Kelsey]

I think it's.

[Ben Stiller]

Or is it?

[Travis Kelsey]

I mean, we're still football players. It's not rocket science.

[Jason Kelsey]

Listen to a lot of football players talk. It's not that complicated. But.

[Ben Stiller]

No, no, but honestly I did, I did once when we were doing Zoolander 2. Aaron Rodgers came to Italy and that's a complicated man. Yeah. But I asked him like, okay, you know, how do you do that on the line when you're having to make those split second decisions? And he said like, it's really not, not. It's not as like complicated as they make it sound on tv.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And I was like, yeah, but you're Aaron Rodgers.

[Travis Kelsey]

So it's probably true.

[Ben Stiller]

It's a little bit like. But it sounds like the same thing you're saying, which is kind of like you guys just have it you for so many years, instinctually, you know it.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, there's a lot of carryover. You learn it over and over again so it becomes second nature, especially the verbiage aspect of it. But it's a guy like Aaron, Aaron is another level of the intellectual ability.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

For the game.

[Ben Stiller]

Right.

[Jason Kelsey]

So obviously it's very much easier for him than a lot of other guys. But I do think that at the end of the day a lot of there's carryover the plays. You've run them a long time now, whether you start in college or high school or high school or even before that. So you, you tend to retain all that knowledge. So it sounds complex to somebody who doesn't understand it, but I mean a lot of it's just common sense. Like you're. If you're running a play where there's too many Guys to run a play. So. Yeah, we shouldn't run the ball over here, right? Let's go run the ball over here. It's like numbers and leverage ultimately come down to, like, what makes a football.

[Ben Stiller]

And surprise of it, Right?

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. I mean, that's a huge aspect of it. Catching the defense off guard, not being predictable.

[Ben Stiller]

Can I ask you one other question about football?

[Travis Kelsey]

Are you kidding me?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, this is one. No, this is. As a fan, it's the. The pain aspect.

[Travis Kelsey]

Okay.

[Ben Stiller]

As we watch Numbed out, watching our TV sets, being entertained all across America and the world, you guys are just, like, smashing into each other and you just take it for granted as an audience member, but when you really look.

[Travis Kelsey]

Enjoy it.

[Jason Kelsey]

But, like, what is.

[Ben Stiller]

I mean, like, what is the reality of that in a game? Because, you know, you see it when you see the play where a guy gets twisted around and you see, God forbid, an awful, you know, brave, and you're like, oh, my God, this is horrific.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

But first of all, like, what does that feel like? And second of all, could a normal human being in, you know, guy like me?

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

There's only one way to find out.

[Jason Kelsey]

I don't know if you could bend, but Tony Perkins could definitely get on there. He has the insecurities necessary to achieve his football genes.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, but, like, seriously, like, what is the level of, like, what's happening there?

[Travis Kelsey]

Well, I Like, like, especially when you get the ball, it's like you're like, you're. You ever seen the bird scooters that go, like 15 at 17 miles an hour and you're just kind of flying around town? It's like riding one of those and then jumping off and. And it's just like, you take little collisions like that throughout the day, and it's just fun. It's fun. And I feel like when you have pads on and you have the excitement of, like, the team and everything, you don't really think of, like, the camaraderie of the team and doing something for a bigger purpose other than yourself. Like, you find, like, fun in competing with guys doing this. And I. I don't know, I think when I. When I. When I was playing quarterback growing up, I didn't really have that much love for it, but once I moved to tight end, obviously my skill set was more suited for that, but I had more fun catching the ball and, like, kind of enjoying those moments where I could be physical. I could. I could kind of like, hit a guy, because you don't get to just walk down the street and Blindside a guy. Right. You get to have fun assaulting somebody, you know, it's like encouraged. Yeah, it's encouraged. So it's like you don't really think of it as like pain, although you do feel the discomfort after a game and after like a season, you feel the wear and tear for sure.

[Ben Stiller]

But there's so the adrenaline is, I.

[Jason Kelsey]

Was about to say in the middle of a game, the adrenaline is so intense, you'll feel a little bit of pain, but it's not something that's going to be like that.

[Ben Stiller]

But you're like not on the line. You're just every play.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh yeah, for sure.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

I don't have any joy.

[Travis Kelsey]

You see this guy's neck?

[Jason Kelsey]

What's wrong with it?

[Ben Stiller]

It's pretty thick.

[Travis Kelsey]

It's barely there.

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

That is just. Oh, you're showing off right now.

[Ben Stiller]

Well, I, I also think about the concentration that it takes to catch the ball knowing there's a guy coming.

[Jason Kelsey]

You know, I think that's more intimidating than anything.

[Travis Kelsey]

Have some fun with it. I like to make them think that I don't know he's coming.

[Ben Stiller]

Okay.

[Travis Kelsey]

Interesting. I reverse it on him. Yeah. But I'm also known for like not even running my route. So I always like to keep them second guess, keep the surprises.

[Jason Kelsey]

Did you ever want to play football?

[Ben Stiller]

You know, I grew up in New York on the Upper west side of Manhattan. Not in a sports oriented environment. I used to love to play basketball.

[Travis Kelsey]

Nice. You've had some pretty iconic basketball scenes.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, yeah, I love basketball, but I didn't have the height or the, you know, I'm Jewish, I can't jump. We're just not allowed. Yeah, I mean, so I wasn't like in that kind of environment. Small Upper west side private school. Didn't even have a football team. Had a basketball team. I didn't make the basketball team. I think 14 kids tried out and they. 12 kids made it it and I didn't make it. But I, it's okay. I, I've been cut before too.

[Travis Kelsey]

Jason's never been cut. He doesn't understand this.

[Jason Kelsey]

I've never been cut.

[Ben Stiller]

But then I, you know, Owen Wilson's buddy of mine and he played sports growing up and he always said I could have been like a little scat back type of guy.

[Jason Kelsey]

Do you think you get a yard in the NFL?

[Ben Stiller]

I could not, no. But I, I, I, I literally wonder what would happen, like if I could survive a play.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, we, I think we could get you a yard. The only one could get you a yard? I think so. You got enough athleticism. You guys couldn't get Judge Drake after that yard. I don't know what's happening if I'm behind you.

[Ben Stiller]

All right, man, Tush push with me.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's a for sure yard. It's got to secure the snap.

[Ben Stiller]

We're probably like, tush, push me. Just pick me up and throw me into the end. Over the top.

[Travis Kelsey]

Turn Ben into the football. Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

We might have just invented a new.

[Ben Stiller]

Version of this Stiller. Tush push.

[Jason Kelsey]

Okay, so we talk about heavyweights, and you said it couldn't be made today.

[Ben Stiller]

Well, it could, yeah. I don't think it would be made by Disney today. You know what I mean? But I think it could be made independently. Sure. If somebody wanted to go out and do it.

[Travis Kelsey]

Bob Iger's not. Not back in that.

[Ben Stiller]

I don't know, man.

[Travis Kelsey]

We should go and see what he should know. Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

What about Tropic Thunder?

[Ben Stiller]

Tropic Thunder? Yeah. I've been asked this question before, you know, I, I think it would have a tougher time getting made today, for sure.

[Travis Kelsey]

So much.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Just because, first of all, like, you know, big comedies with big budgets like that aren't really being made as much, if at all. And, and Tropic Thunder did, you know, have some pretty edgy elements to it at the time.

[Travis Kelsey]

Edgy is a great.

[Jason Kelsey]

Anybody. But did anybody complain? I don't ever remember anybody complaining about it.

[Ben Stiller]

Complain.

[Jason Kelsey]

Never mind. I'm going to go back over here.

[Travis Kelsey]

You didn't think that you did a.

[Ben Stiller]

Bubble, but in a different way it was again. And this is, what is it, 15 years ago or something? It was 2008 or something. It was like a different sort of reaction to things that wasn't as in the moment and as much of a kind of a waterfall of reaction immediately. Yeah, no, I mean, my character that I played, Tug, was playing this character of Simple Jack that was, you know.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, that won't be.

[Ben Stiller]

That got some blowback from, from people. I, you know, we, I, I showed the movie to the NAACP in LA before we. We released the movie to. Just because of Robert's character that he. And to me, the, the joke of the movie always was that these actors are trying to do anything they can to win an award and be taken seriously. So that, to me, that was why it was always clear to me that's the joke of the movie. And I think people who get the movie get that. But we, you know, you definitely want to, like, get a sense of how people are Reacting to it. So, you know, we did. We. But that's what comedy is. You got to. You got to put it out there. And, yeah, we got a little bit of blowback. But as long as you're clear, you know where the. Where the joke is and that you're clear about your intention, you can, you know, then I think you can hear criticism and it can be valid. But you know where you're coming from and you can stand by it, which I do. I still stand by the movie. And I would hope that we could make another Tropic fun.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jason Kelsey]

So good. I tried to show it to my kids. My oldest is five.

[Ben Stiller]

Jesus. All right.

[Jason Kelsey]

I wasn't trying to show it to. I was just putting it on. The girls walked into the room. It was not good. It was during the. Tucker just lost his hands. Oh, my God. Intestines are all over the place. Kylie, I. I forget. Kylie's. Exactly. Do you remember what Kylie said other than turn this off right now?

[Ben Stiller]

You'll be getting the therapy.

[Jason Kelsey]

Bill.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Do you have a favorite comedy movie you made?

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, that I've made. I mean, Tropic Thunder for me was, like, one of the most fun experiences just because we were all together. It was such an amazing cast just to be with those guys. And it was an idea that I had had from back in, like, 1987, and then we finally made the movie in 2007. So literally had. Had. Had been sort of gestating that long. So to actually be making it was sort of surreal that we were finally doing it. So for me, that experience was one of my favorites. And. But, like, you know, doing Meet the Parents with Robert De Niro is. Will always be an incredibly exciting thing that happened, you know, to just. And kind of surreal because I just love him so much. Yeah. And. Yeah. And then getting to. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. It's. It's. Every time you're in it, it's always different. I don't know if you guys are like this when you're, you know, when you're doing your thing, but, like, you're in it, and it's. Sometimes it's hard to appreciate it when you're in it because you have to be focusing on what you're doing.

[Travis Kelsey]

You're rolling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm right there with you.

[Ben Stiller]

I don't. Because they always say, like, football players or even any athletes, they, like, go out there and have fun. Is that. Is that a real thing?

[Travis Kelsey]

What I feel like I play my best When I'm out there just enjoying the moments with the guys, and it's 100%, I don't like to kind of look at things as it's complete or like, I'm. I'm more in the moment trying to think about the next play, trying to think about the next, like, way we're going to attack them, how I'm going to handle this situation and think about that than I am like, man, this is sweet.

[Jason Kelsey]

I do think, though, that's why they tell you to have fun, because it's so easy to lose track of the fact that we're all playing a game and this should be fun. You get bogged down on where you're at and trying to remember the play or the moment. Let's sit down a distance, all these things, you lose track of the fact that, like, if you guys are genuinely enjoying being out there and having fun, there's an enthusiasm and an energy that permeates and makes everybody usually perform better.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

And I think that's one thing that I watched. Trav. I've always been like, for some reason, it always looks like he brings that out on the field. And there's certain guys have a tendency, you just watch a game and people gravitate towards them. It makes them feel like they're kids again. And as a player, where for me, I oftentimes wasn't that I always appreciated playing with those guys because it made me feel like I was playing in the backyard by buddies again.

[Ben Stiller]

Right. Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

And even though we're in front of the. This huge stadium or whatever. Right.

[Ben Stiller]

And you see the joy that you have when, like, I mean, obviously end zone celebrations or just when first down or something.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

But I think, you know, that. That enjoyment of connecting with your teammates and doing. Doing the work in. In the moment and like it working when you like, you know, complete a play that. That works. I have that same appreciation when I'm working on a movie that. That the enjoyment of the process. And actually, for me, that's my favorite part of all of this, is with something or sitting in the editing room and cutting together sequence, putting some music on it and feeling it come together. That to me is the best and that. And that is important, I think, to have that appreciation of the process. Because, you know, with a movie or something like that, it comes out and then people either like it or they don't like it. And you have no control over that. Right. It's just going out into the world. But the process is what you experienced and what You. You. You know what you own. And so you have to enjoy that because the rest of it is sort of. Then you're at the whim of, like, you know, what people thought. And that's, by the way, that's like trial and error for me over the years.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, 100. I've learned that throughout the course of my career. I came in wanting to have all the stats, wanting to have all the acknowledgment of he's a great player. And. And, I mean, I've been fortunate to, like, get a lot of those stats and have successful years and win Super Bowls, but at the same time, when I'm, like, kind of, like, in it, like, I find more love building that piece than I am just kind of looking back, like, oh, man, that's awesome. Like, it was more just like the. The feeling of doing it with them in the moment that just like, really, that's where it's most enjoyable for me.

[Ben Stiller]

I actually remember when we were doing Tropic Thunder, talking to Robert Downey about it, because at that point, I think he had just done Ironman, but he. It hadn't come out yet, you know, and he had this interesting trajectory to his career where, you know, he had a lot of acclaim and they went through a lot of challenges, and then, you know, and then Iron man came out and kind of, like, revitalized his career. Yeah, but as an actor, he's always been, like, one of the best actors ever. And I remember talking, when we were doing the movie about this sense of sort of like, we've worked, you and you. You and I, we've all worked really hard over the years because this is, you know, we'd already been doing it for whatever, like, 25 years, probably, or whatever. And so the enjoyment of knowing that you put in a lot of work and then having a freedom to then go and put something out there and try things and do your thing with a sense of.

[Travis Kelsey]

That had to be such a relief to just be able to cut it loose like that.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. An appreciation of that. Say, like, yeah, I have put this work. And it's not like an ego thing. It's more like, hey, okay, we're here and we've done this a lot. And it's what you were saying about putting those work in on those plays your whole life, then you kind of can go out there and let go in a way and appreciate the fun of that too. Right. While you still are locked in and trying to do something new and hit the next, you know, level and I think that's an important thing in the process to appreciate you.

[Travis Kelsey]

Hit it, dude. Because that movie is classic. How did you get Tom Cruise to jump in on this, dude? I mean, the star studded.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Like, this is a crazy one. I mean, Tom and I knew each other a little bit because we had done, you know, I had been a fan my whole life, you know, just watching his movies forever. And I'd met him a few times over the years and we did a little short for MTV Movie Awards. This is like 25 years ago, I think, because I was on my honeymoon. We came back from our honeymoon in Australia to do this thing with Tom where I was a stuntman. I pretended.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, yeah, I remember.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, Mission Impossible too. And we had so much fun doing that. And then a few years.

[Travis Kelsey]

Finish your own sentences, right?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. It was so fun and weird doing that. And then we stayed in touch and this was again, a few years go by and actually we'd been talking about trying to figure out something to do, but hadn't figured it out. And then I was working on the Tropic Thunder script and I had actually done a home movie for my wife for her birthday that was a takeoff on the show 24. And it was called 17 or 17 minutes long. And it started. My brother in law, Brian Taylor, who happens to be here today, who.

[Jason Kelsey]

Shout out to Brian.

[Ben Stiller]

Shout out to Brian Ryan is the worst actor ever.

[Travis Kelsey]

Which can also be really good in time.

[Ben Stiller]

They have an alarm company in Allentown, Pennsylvania. He's not a professional actor. So the fun of the joke was, let's put him in a movie with real actors. And he was obsessed with Tom's speech from A Few Good Men or the Jack Nicholson speech from A Few Good Men that he gives to Tom Cruise where he says, you can't handle the truth. Right? I said, tom, we're doing this home movie for Christine. Would you maybe come and do like a scene in it where my brother in law is going to recite the.

[Travis Kelsey]

Jack Nicholson speech to you?

[Ben Stiller]

And he said, yes.

[Jason Kelsey]

And there's video evidence.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes, there is video evidence. And he came down and he was so professional and like, it blew my mind, he was so good. And Brian did the speech to him. And then we had so much fun doing that, the Tropic Thunder came up. I called him, I said, look, let's. Maybe you. Are you interested in this movie? And he looked and he said, you know, you had you make fun of the actors, you make fun of, you know, everybody and the agents and all that, but you don't make fun of the studio heads. You should have a studio head. So his. It was his idea.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, my God.

[Ben Stiller]

That character. What? That character did not exist before he suggested it.

[Travis Kelsey]

I feel like it is such a.

[Ben Stiller]

Beginning, and then it became such an important part of the story. And this was three months before we started shooting the movie. And we rewrote. Justin Theroux and I were working on it. Cohen and. And Justin and I rewrote these scenes and. And put them in. And then Tom said, also, I feel like I want to dance in the movie. I just want to dance.

[Travis Kelsey]

So this was purely, like, have a bodysuit on.

[Ben Stiller]

And then. And. And then we did a makeup and go crazy. Yeah. And we put him in the makeup, and we. And he started dancing in the makeup test. We gave him some Diet Cokes to crush. And then we put. And then I think I put get back by ludicrous in the makeup test. And I was like, this could be really fun.

[Travis Kelsey]

So good.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. He came in and just. Yeah. So it was. It was pretty. Pretty crazy how that happened.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's awesome. That is crazy. How did. How did Brian do in his speech?

[Ben Stiller]

Brian? Well, he was perfectly bad as he should have been.

[Travis Kelsey]

How about Brian? God damn, that was good stuff. I. I gotta ask you more about your. Your basketball level, your sports love. So you were at the Oscars not too long ago getting hype about the Knicks win.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, let's go.

[Travis Kelsey]

Not sure if it was even an important game. It was just like, Are you. You watch every game like that?

[Ben Stiller]

I do watch every game. I do. Yeah. I'm. I'm. You know, the last few years. Look, I. My whole life, I've been a Knicks fan. Last few years have been pretty exciting. So many years in the wilderness. Especially, like, the last, like, 10 years before this. Yeah, yeah. I watch. I try to watch every game. And I now have realized I have to actually put the games into my schedule. Even I'm not going to them, just to watch them, just to catch them, like, plan a dinner, because I start to resent that I'm at dinner. Yeah. So I knew that the game was happening during the Oscars, and then I. But I was focused on doing the thing at the Oscars. And then, like, once it was done, I. I was leaving, and after I'd done my thing, I was going back to my hotel, and I realized, oh, my God, the Knicks game is on. So then I, like, checked it, because I hadn't checked it the whole day or even been aware of it as much. To be honest, I wasn't. I. But I knew it was happening. And then I saw the Knicks had won. I was like, oh, this is great. I just finished my baby Oscars and the Knicks won.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm happy.

[Ben Stiller]

Knicks win. Yeah. And then I guess somebody picked up the fact that I had been like.

[Travis Kelsey]

You'Re backstage right now.

[Ben Stiller]

But I mean, I genuinely do. You know, I. I went to the Lakers game where Brunson got injured, and, you know, I genuinely love going to the games.

[Travis Kelsey]

I feel like I've always told myself I want to go to a game in Madison Square Garden. It was actually a big reason why we went to. Or I went to Cincinnati is because the Big east championship is in the Garden. I've always imagined the Garden as, like, obviously the Mecca, but it is like the top of, like, the basketball culture. It gets rotten. No, I haven't been to a game yet.

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, okay.

[Travis Kelsey]

And I've been telling my. Going to go when the Knicks are good and it's rocking, and it's just.

[Ben Stiller]

Been like, you have to come to a game.

[Travis Kelsey]

I have to. I know.

[Ben Stiller]

Why don't you come to a game?

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm going to. I'll tell you what. The Cavs meet the Knicks in the playoffs. Because that thing, I want it to be like a. The Nick. I don't know if it's like that every single game, but I know when it's an important game, that thing is like, honestly, like, you can see it on tv. When.

[Ben Stiller]

Honestly, when any game, if it's a good game, it goes crazy. Like, it's just so intense. Yeah, but. But, you know, the playoffs, there's like, nothing like. Like when they beat Philadelphia in the playoffs last season.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And Dante DiVincenzo hit that shot. I don't know if you remember that play, but, like, it was just. It was. I never felt anything like it. Yeah. Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Me and Jason talk about it all the time. There's no better ticket in sports than courtside at an NBA game.

[Ben Stiller]

There's nothing better.

[Jason Kelsey]

Right.

[Ben Stiller]

Because you're so close to it.

[Jason Kelsey]

So. Yeah, you're right. That was the first time I ever. I went back. Travis had courtside tickets to the Cast Cavs for the second half of the season every year when Brown was there. Yeah. When the Browns.

[Travis Kelsey]

So I haven't been able to get.

[Jason Kelsey]

Me borrow a couple of tickets. I go there and that was my first time realizing, oh, my God, these guys are like, so much better athletes than football players. Like, they are moving so fast.

[Travis Kelsey]

Like they have springs on their Feet, Right. Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

It was just in the size.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Like, I think it's easy. It's harder when you're brought back from it to really realize how big an athletic.

[Ben Stiller]

You don't. Yeah, for sure, for sure.

[Jason Kelsey]

But when you're on the court, it's like, oh, that guy is high.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, Even just seeing LeBron in person, you know, like, I was watching the other night. I mean, it's just. He's just so big.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And he's so strong, and, you know, he gets the ball, and all of a sudden it's just like the tension level goes up and the defender gets.

[Travis Kelsey]

Up on whoever it is, because it's.

[Ben Stiller]

Like, LeBron's got the ball and he's like, he can impose his will still.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's. And he's 40 years old doing it.

[Ben Stiller]

This is insane.

[Jason Kelsey]

He did a spin move in a dunk, and I was like, I've never seen that before.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, it's very impressive. Impressive.

[Jason Kelsey]

Would you rather win an Academy Award or Knicks win?

[Ben Stiller]

I don't know. I mean, I think the Knicks. I. I. You know, realistically, I think the Knicks winning a championship is in the car.

[Jason Kelsey]

All right. All right.

[Ben Stiller]

So I'm definitely down for that. Yeah. But if I was for, like. If I was forced, like, definitely. And I've heard John Stewart was asked this question, and he said Nicks, too. So I'm not going to not say next.

[Jason Kelsey]

All right.

[Ben Stiller]

But I also feel like I. I really think, like, at the end of the day, if I knew that I had the choice, I would give it to the Knicks because I knew at least I had the choice.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

In this weird.

[Jason Kelsey]

This weird, weird, real situation. But it means a lot to a lot of people.

[Ben Stiller]

No, no.

[Jason Kelsey]

Like, it's like you're. It's like, I don't care.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. The Knicks winning a champion, like, it's. So it's still a little bit, like, it seems a little bit like, oh, my God, I can't imagine that. But, yeah, we're just starting to feel like it. But then always something happens with where.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah. I mean. I mean, Cleveland was there for forever, too, so I get it.

[Ben Stiller]

Cleveland is having an incredible year.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm fired up.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Incredible.

[Travis Kelsey]

We're just talking about it. Jason's kind of like, here right now with basketball, and I'm just like, dude.

[Jason Kelsey]

Just wants to keep selling me. I gotta get back.

[Ben Stiller]

Donovan Mitchell is a New York guy, too.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

He's just incredible. Yeah. So. And they. They've got a great Thing going on.

[Travis Kelsey]

See, we kind of got on the basketball kick. I gotta talk about one of my favorite scenes that you directed in Cable Guy with Jim Carrey, him coming into the gym.

[Ben Stiller]

The basketball.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, the basketball scene with him coming into the gym. I want. I. I don't know if you understand. You had everybody trying to jump off of their friend's back to dunk the basketball. And I. I just remember it never work. It's not like in the movie. He was like a trampoline. Like, I was like, oh, my gosh, if I could do that. Like, I was. I told you I was a little bit heavier. I was always, like, twice the size of all my friends. And I was like, dude, just get on all fours.

[Jason Kelsey]

I'm gonna jump off your body.

[Ben Stiller]

It really makes no sense, that move.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, but it was so funny.

[Ben Stiller]

I remember we. I don't. We had. Well, we were like, you know, like, Jim. We wanted to come up with, like, some insane set piece where Jim would just be, you know, just the biggest kind of asshole guy who comes into play a pickup basketball game. Yeah. And Jack Black, I guess, is like. He's like. He runs up on Jack Black. But I remember we put, like, an apple box or something next to Jack. It was very low tech. There was no, like. Like, if we did it today, there would be, like, CG and it would be like. Oh, yeah. Probably. It was just a very, like, kind of, like, simplistic way of doing where he's, like, on an apple box right behind him when he jumps up, but then.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And then he shatters the backboard. But we had such a good time making that movie. And Matthew Broderick is so funny in it and. Yeah, yeah. And Jim is just insane. Have you ever had him on the podcast? He's so. He's.

[Travis Kelsey]

He's.

[Ben Stiller]

He's so funny. I mean, he's like one of those guys. He'll just do something to make you laugh, and then he'll just keep doing it until you stop laughing, you know, it was fun to just be working with him at that moment where he was just sort of, like, willing to, like, take, you know, any chance and just do whatever, you know, he thought could be funny. And we were just having a great time together.

[Travis Kelsey]

Hell, yeah. We kind of touched on it before in terms of writing for. For yourself or for guys that kind of just have, like, those instincts of, like, improv. How much of it is hard as a director to control that, to try and keep.

[Jason Kelsey]

Keep the script. The script.

[Travis Kelsey]

You know, how much, like, how much do you juggle with that as a director?

[Ben Stiller]

I did a movie once, Mystery Men, and dude, are you kidding?

[Travis Kelsey]

I just did it. Yeah. Just one time back in.

[Jason Kelsey]

Was not.

[Travis Kelsey]

A blockbuster at the time.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

But one of the actors was not as into improv, and a lot of the other actors were, and we were kind of figuring it as we went along. And that ended up sometimes being a thing.

[Jason Kelsey]

Okay.

[Ben Stiller]

Where that actor would want to just like, hey, can we.

[Jason Kelsey]

Can we just do what we planned?

[Ben Stiller]

And by the way, a great actor just. It wasn't his process as much.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

So you'd be surprised. You do it on the football field, too.

[Ben Stiller]

Really?

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Improv.

[Ben Stiller]

Does the coach get mad or not?

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, yeah. Sometimes you get that. You definitely look. He gives you the eyebrow.

[Jason Kelsey]

Daddy gets happy.

[Travis Kelsey]

Never do that again when it works.

[Ben Stiller]

Happy when it works.

[Travis Kelsey]

Right. I'll come to the side. Oh, yeah. Don't ever do that again. Got it.

[Ben Stiller]

He's got a good commercial career going too.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yes, he does.

[Travis Kelsey]

He's a Hollywood guy right there. You know what I mean? He gets it. He gets the entertainment aspect.

[Jason Kelsey]

Speaking of severance, it is time that we put this disclaimer out.

[Ben Stiller]

All right.

[Jason Kelsey]

We're at the point of the show where we're going to talk about severance, folks. We're going to do it in a segment called we gotta ask. You don't have to answer.

[Ben Stiller]

Okay.

[Jason Kelsey]

Which I think there's gonna be a lot of these you probably aren't gonna answer. Basically, we're gonna ask you a bunch of questions. You tell us whether. What you think of it. You tell us off whatever you want.

[Ben Stiller]

Okay.

[Jason Kelsey]

And since you've been a great guest, we're gonna do this section while having our very own waffle party.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

So what's the inspiration behind the waffle party?

[Ben Stiller]

This is a. Dan Erickson, who wrote the pilot and is the creator of the show, and we've been working on. On it together over the years. He has a brilliant mind and waffle party being some. I don't know where that came from in his mind as the. You know, the celebration when you have the reward, when you get to a.

[Travis Kelsey]

Certain point, it's not a pizza party, it's a waffle party.

[Jason Kelsey]

These might be a little raspberry.

[Ben Stiller]

For a long time in season one, you know, we didn't know what. What the waffle party actually was. Eventually we defined it in the. I guess, like the. The second to last episode. But it was fun to think about. Like, what is a waffle party? What's the metaphor? What is the.

[Travis Kelsey]

You know.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jason Kelsey]

What does it mean?

[Ben Stiller]

Well, I mean, I think it's more than just waffles.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Is what I. I feel.

[Jason Kelsey]

Okay.

[Ben Stiller]

It's like, what would be the best reward you could have if you're working in this place every day and you don't get to leave and, you know, you're a human being and so somewhat party aspect.

[Travis Kelsey]

I don't know that.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

I mean, I love it. I'm about to start having waffle parties all the time now with no underlying.

[Ben Stiller]

Great. Wow.

[Jason Kelsey]

It was just so funny because it felt like childlike.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes.

[Jason Kelsey]

These are grown adults who are subjected to in some way, slave labor as any.

[Ben Stiller]

Well, they're kind of like kids because they've only had consciousness for a short amount of time.

[Jason Kelsey]

Right.

[Ben Stiller]

And they don't really have any freedom. And they're told. Yeah, the waffle party is like the best thing.

[Jason Kelsey]

This is it.

[Ben Stiller]

These are good, though.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm just going to butter it up just a little bit.

[Ben Stiller]

Our waffles on your training camp menu.

[Jason Kelsey]

I tell you what. There was training camp next to Lehigh Valley, where we had training camp back when it was remote. That was our Chick Fil A. That's where we would go.

[Travis Kelsey]

Now, a lot of the shots in se, we're talking about symmetry. That's. I mean, the opening episode, everything is just so, like. Like, I just feel like it was so thought out in the colors that you chose. The building blows my mind. Is that a real. How much was it was of. Of. It was like a studio set and how much of it was like an actual building that you guys found? Because the inside of that building was so big. The shots seem so massive and it seems so epic.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, that building is a real building.

[Travis Kelsey]

It's.

[Ben Stiller]

And it is huge. It even is bigger in real life. When you go there then it feels, I think, when you see it on the show, because it's just ceilings are so freaking. It's in New Jersey. It's in Holmdel, New Jersey. And it's now kind of like an office complex in a mall. But it used to be the head of Bell, the headquarters of Bell Labs, and they developed the transistor chip there, I think, in the 60s. So it's pretty. That's why the water tower there has that interesting shape where it kind of looks like a transistor sister. And when we found it, Jessica Lee Gagne, who's our cinematographer, we were Googling stuff and she found this place, and we looked at it from Above. And it looked like this giant sort of like almost like an egg shape with this. Or the building was there, and then the parking lot was like an egg shaped oval around it. And we're like, this is so crazy, this view and this shape. And then we went there and it was just gigantic and kind of empty. Empty. So. And nobody had filmed anything there. That was the. That's. So when you're making movies and you find a location, you get so excited when you find a really cool location that nobody's ever filmed at because you don't want to have something that's been in another movie.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And so when we found that, that was the first thing we found. And then we designed the sets and all the interiors and everything are on sound stages that we shot up in the Bronx. But. But that was like the design sort of the first sort of inspiration for the rest of the show. And it was a guy named Eero Saarinen, who's an architect in the 50s, who made that building.

[Travis Kelsey]

Did you always imagine the characters having that fun kind of comedy banter or like. Cause it's such a. It's a very serious show, or at least it feels very like.

[Ben Stiller]

No, you're right, though. Like, in the. When I read the script that Dan wrote, it was a pilot. He wrote a spec pilot on his own that he brought to our company. When I read that banter, it reminded me of shows I love, like the office or parks and recipes. Wreck this back and forth thing that they had. And what was so fascinating to me was, oh, these guys are like, doing this kind of funny office humor, but yet they don't know who they are, why they're there, what they're doing so good. Yeah, they don't know anything. It's like. So that's like this weird sort of Twilight Zone aspect to it, and it's very surreal and kind of abstract in a way. Like, well, what. What is going on here? So that humor and that office workplace thing is actually, for me, always been sort of the core of what the show is. And then it's definitely developed into. Into what it is.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's awesome.

[Jason Kelsey]

Are you surprised by the fan base the show has built up? Sorry, I do not want to take away from the waffles.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, that raspberry butter, sweet strawberry butter.

[Ben Stiller]

I haven't had a waffle. And I think since we shot the.

[Travis Kelsey]

Waffle jump in there, we shot the waffle party, we had these waffles, and.

[Ben Stiller]

I was like, I gotta have a taste in one of those Waffles. That was like, three years old.

[Travis Kelsey]

Time sake.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. It's crazy because we were off the air for three years series.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, I remember.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

And it was incredibly infuriating as a fan of the show.

[Ben Stiller]

Well, I appreciate that you were a fan from the first season, because a lot of people didn't discover it until now.

[Jason Kelsey]

I told so many people. Have you guys seen this show on Apple tv? Several. Like, it was, like, all I could think about.

[Ben Stiller]

Thanks.

[Jason Kelsey]

And you did a great job of leaving on that cliffhanger with Mark at the birthing cabinet.

[Ben Stiller]

He's at seven. And Rick. And he's like, she's alive.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. And the. And I'm like, when is this next episode gonna come out? When is the next season?

[Ben Stiller]

I know, I know. When we got hit with the strike, there was a writers and actors strike. And it took us a little bit while. A while to kind of, like, regroup after that. And the show, I think we shot for 186 days on season two.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yes.

[Ben Stiller]

There's a lot of shooting and editing and editing takes a while, but thank goodness that the audience was, like, was there when we came back on.

[Jason Kelsey]

And, I mean, it almost built the suspense up even more. Everybody just kept talking about it.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And the challenge was just to get people who hadn't seen the. To watch the first season. So Apple did a really good job, I think, of getting the word out. And we, you know, did as much press as we could. But also, three years later, Apple TV plus is actually a different. It's a different situation there now because they have more viewers, too. Because when we started out, we were one of the first shows. You know, Think about that. That's pretty cool.

[Travis Kelsey]

Talking about kind of doing some promo for it. Was the. The art museum set up? Was it even at an art museum? It was like a pop, like, office setup.

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Is that, like, the weirdest promo you've ever done for a show?

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. That was really crazy. We set up the office cubicle in a glass cube in Grand Central Station.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's where it was. Grand Central Station.

[Ben Stiller]

And it was an idea that they had. And Adam Scott said, well, if the actors, the real actors can go in there and do it. And the fact that they were willing to go in there, and I said, they have to do it for, like, at least three hours, because, like, it just has to be enough time that people can be walking by and just go, what's that?

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, my God. People going home from work. Like, wait a minute. Like, people who knew the show People who didn't know the show. And of course people started filming with their phones and stuff. And it became, it did become a viral thing and that I think ended up probably getting more attention than if we had just done a premiere or something. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And because it was so organic and it was so much fun to watch them just in this cube because the actors just started improvising and doing.

[Travis Kelsey]

I was going to say, was there a script? What were they, were they even like told to talk about or even. Could they even be heard?

[Ben Stiller]

They couldn't be heard. So they knew that. So they had that free and they knew that they were going to be in character. So they were actually doing, you know, Dylan and Mark and, and Patricia came in as Ms. Cobell and she started throwing stuff at Adam and made him stand in the corner. And there's just like so many funny moments. But I knew as actors, I knew they were just going to sort of fall into it because it's like what you do. So like, it's like for them it's like, okay, this is like a performance art piece and, and they had so much fun with it and I was just like watching, taking pictures and yeah, it was, it was awesome.

[Jason Kelsey]

What's it like directing something as complicated, in some ways, meticulous as severance?

[Ben Stiller]

I mean, it just becomes, you know, I've been directing for like a lot for most of my life, I guess, and I love it so much. It's such a collaborative experience. You're working with cinematographers, you know, the production designer, costume designer, actors, editor, all these people. It's a group effort. And I just, I love the process, what we were talking about earlier. So for something like this, when you have everybody who's sort of like focused on this vision that Dan laid out in his script, everybody's working sort of like towards the same goal. And you want to get people to just be as creative as possible and work with people who you want to bring as much of their own personal sort of inspiration to it. So I think that's like a big part of it and, and then it's become. It's basically been my full time job for the last five years and I've loved it. It's just you go to work every day, you know, and you have your, you know, whatever scene you're going to approach. I think acting is harder, honestly. You know, when you have to get in front of a camera and like show up in the morning and do an emotional scene where you're going to break down Crying in your car or whatever it is that's, you know, that's challenging.

[Travis Kelsey]

Heck, yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

As a director, you can come set up the camera, try to help the actor as much as possible create an environment, but they have to do that thing. And so for me, using that part of my brain as a director, I really enjoy because in a way, I feel like, you know, every day I kind of know what I'm, I'm going to be doing. Acting stresses me out a little more because, you know, it's like, oh, shit, I have that scene today where I have to pull that up and that. And I really admire it. Made me, it's made me admire actors so much more as a director, just working with them, you know, because I just see when you're doing both, because a lot of, over the years I did it, I acted and directed in a lot of movies I made. When you're really just directing, I think you can just focus on what you're doing, be there for the other actors more and be connected to the crew and sort of adjust things. And I, I, I love the process of it. And by the way, I just have to say, we have other great directors. Jessica Lee Gagne, our cinematographer, directed the, our episode seven that just came out.

[Travis Kelsey]

So many cool shots in this. Like, I'm just blown away by some.

[Ben Stiller]

We have amazing people working on the show and harmony.

[Jason Kelsey]

Cool. Bell.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Patricia.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, my gosh. That was, I don't know if anybody saw that portion of it coming because there wasn't a lot of hints to that.

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, to her going back to her.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, Yeah. I don't know what, but yeah, what is, I don't know. Questions now than there were before.

[Travis Kelsey]

Exactly. But that's how, that's kind of the fun of. And I can only imagine how fun that is, trying to keep that question in the air, like the underlying meaning of everything. And the theories. Have you heard of any, like, fan theories that you're like, oh, that's a good one. Didn't even think of that.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, there are, there's so many. The show people and people put out. There's so much fan art and fan edits and, and, and theorizing and podcasts about it that I don't, I try not to get into a lot of that. Yeah, I try not to because we have to focus on what we want it to be. But of course, you hear ideas that are, like, really interesting and you go, oh, yeah, that could actually be something. But you don't want it to really influence, like, what we're doing. But yet you are aware of the audience. You want the audience to enjoy the show. But everybody seems to have a different way into the show, too, and different things that they. They love the Mark Kelly relationship, they love the Mark Jem relationship, they love Ms. Cabell or Milchick, you know, so it. What's interesting is you make the show. We made the season. We basically locked. The season finished in, I'd say, like, September, October, and I was doing some mixing and visual effects stuff through the fall, but it's done. So, you know, as you're watching people react in real time, it's not like, you know, like, oh, you're watching a sports team where you go, you know, they really should have this guy play that position. Or. Yeah. You can't make any changes.

[Travis Kelsey]

It's all.

[Ben Stiller]

It's all set in stone.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

So I'm watching people react and they go, oh, this episode was the best episode. Or I really didn't like that episode. Or I wonder what's going to happen, you know, or they should do this or that. I'm like, well, it's just. It is what it's gonna be.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Next week is gonna come out.

[Jason Kelsey]

You're gonna find out. I mean, that has been something like, especially you. You go knee deep in the theories each week.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

And it's fun to watch. Oh, well, that didn't end up panning out. Now we're on to the next theory.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And so we know what it is and, like, what we've done for the season. And I'm just watching in real time because it's not a binge show too. It's coming out week to week. So that's very different too, as opposed to, you know, you're watching something where you can watch every single episode. People can then go like, oh, that frustrated me. I'm going to watch the next episode and I get the answer I wanted. But here you get people for, like a whole week going like, oh, you know, that's. Is it going to go this way? Is it going to go that way? Or. That frustrated me. So it plays out differently than I think. Once the show's out, out in a couple weeks, then people will be able to binge the whole thing, and that'll be a different experience for them. Watching it, too.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

I have two people, three people who I show the show to when we're in process, which is my wife, my son, and my daughter.

[Travis Kelsey]

Nice.

[Jason Kelsey]

So they have all the answers.

[Ben Stiller]

Well, they see it as like, I'll show them A rough cut. Oh, Brian too. Brian. I've showed. Right? Yeah. And so I'll get feedback from them, but you can't show everybody the whole series, so you can only pick a few people who you. Okay. Do you want to watch cuts as we go along?

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's exciting.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Talking about some characters. Adam Scott.

[Ben Stiller]

Yes.

[Travis Kelsey]

Absolutely kills it.

[Ben Stiller]

He's amazing.

[Travis Kelsey]

Was he always kind of the first choice? I don't want to bring that. He was always the first choice for you.

[Ben Stiller]

He was always the first choice for me from the second I read the pilot script that Dan gave me, and I think Dan had been thinking about him too, and I reached out to him immediately, and then Apple had some other ideas about casting it, and I was very firm. Like, I really felt Adam was the guy. And Adam luckily stuck with it and stuck through with me and. And ended up doing it. And I'm so happy because I could. And again, for that same reason of, like, the office workplace comedy vibe that he brings. But I also know he has this deeper thing underneath.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

And to watch him really embrace that over the course of making the show, and even just the way he approached playing Audi, Mark, and any. Mark. Mark, his voice, his physicality, it's all so different, you know, and he really works so hard to do that. And he's also like this crazy, like, robot actor guy who can do anything. Like, he. And I mean that a good way because, like, you say robot actors, but, like, he is so specific and so precision in terms of being able to make an adjustment.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

You know, like, he can make an adjustment. That's sort of just like a, you know, a thing where he, like, you know, if you could just, like, lean a little to the right because the camera sees this behind you and still do the moment or, you know, just. He's. He's amazing.

[Travis Kelsey]

Well, yeah. That's awesome.

[Jason Kelsey]

All of the actors are fantastic.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. And John Turturro and Irv never worked with him before, and he's just an intense, great guy.

[Jason Kelsey]

The outdoor episode.

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Catskills.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

That moment. And speaking of, like, even Helly and Helena.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

The facial expression change.

[Ben Stiller]

No, Brit this year.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. This year, Brit having to play Helena and Heli and again, the same thing Adam has been doing. But these actors are thinking about the characters so deeply that they. They always come in with so many great ideas, and I really listen to them even in just on story level, you know, just tone, everything. They. They understand it so well. So, you know, we'll be talking about an idea for scene, and Adam will say, like, you know, I don't know if that really feels like severance to me. You know, it's hard to define it sometimes, but it's that kind of thing. Also, when you're trying to push the boundary a little bit and take some chances, like we've done in season two, you know, you're trying to define, like, okay, does this still feel like the show? And I think when you trust your actors and, you know, that they have a sense of who they are in the show.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

You know, I really rely on that a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, let's ask the biggest question. Would you get severed?

[Ben Stiller]

Would I get severed?

[Jason Kelsey]

You have potentially more information for where this goes.

[Ben Stiller]

The idea of it does not seem like a great idea.

[Jason Kelsey]

It's a lot of control you're giving out.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. I feel like, you know. Yeah. So for me, it's. No, because, like, I want to remember. I want to experience my life, the life that I have left to live.

[Jason Kelsey]

Right.

[Ben Stiller]

Because, like, we're here for not so long. Like, I want to feel it all. Yeah. I feel like there's so many metaphors for severance in life, though, right. In terms of how we suppress or cut off, you know?

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Whether. Exactly. And I feel like, you know, people do that in all different sorts of ways. Ways. And I, you know, and I probably do that in my life in a lot of different ways.

[Jason Kelsey]

I had a great text from a really good buddy of mine who played in the NFL, also served the United States Army. He said, you won't accomplish anything worth having in life unless it was hard getting it. And as it's kind of like, you know, I feel like severance, a lot of the themes are like. And it seems where it's going is being severed from all of these painful, traumatic things, but you lose sight of the fact that these painful, traumatic things are part of living life. Life, and they're necessary to have. And it's. It's undoubtedly no answer for that reason, but, yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah, I think that's very much about what the show is. You know, like, it's this life. You know, pain is such a big part of our experience. And, of course, there's that duality thing of, like, well, you can't have, you know, pain and enjoying life. You know, these things are separate. Right?

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Pleasure and pain. But, like, you can't have pleasure without pain.

[Jason Kelsey]

What is pleasure without. Without pain.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. What is it, Jason?

[Jason Kelsey]

I don't know.

[Ben Stiller]

Please tell me.

[Jason Kelsey]

I believed You. When you said that, is Cobell officially a character we're rooting for now, or is this still a part of the film?

[Ben Stiller]

I mean, that's the fun. Again, I think that's the fun of the show is that you have people like Milchick and Cobell for sure, and. And Helena and, you know, all these people that you don't quite know. Right. Yeah. And I like that she's always kind of had her own severed version of. Even though she's not severed, that she, you know, that she's Ms. Selvig and playing his. You know, she's kind of imagining a life as a normal person, too, when she's living next door to Mark. So, yeah, the. The duality thing is. Is a big part of the. Of the. The characters, and I think that's fun for the audience to sit in, you know?

[Jason Kelsey]

Okay, can I ask you one more? Is, is Irv. Is there more to the Irvin Bert relationship that hasn't been. I'm assuming. Yes. Okay. I'm sorry. I don't want to push you. I really don't, because you.

[Ben Stiller]

When is this thing going to be on?

[Jason Kelsey]

It'll be on the day the last or the week the last episode comes out.

[Ben Stiller]

Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Jason Kelsey]

We will have answers by Wednesday.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Yes. All. All shall be revealed.

[Jason Kelsey]

Okay, Fair enough. That is good. That is good. Yeah, because it feels. I mean, the.

[Ben Stiller]

Well, I feel like where we are.

[Jason Kelsey]

Now, the elevator painting with the Gemma episode all of a sudden reveals more like, oh, yes, there's another floor to this. That. All right, all right, I'll stop. I'll stop. I'll stop. You're all over. Listen, I'm telling you, I'm all over this space, bro.

[Ben Stiller]

I can't tell you the spoiler thing, but. Yeah, I just had an idea, but I'll tell you about it later.

[Jason Kelsey]

Okay. I will tune in regardless.

[Travis Kelsey]

Okay. Yeah. Are we gonna have to wait for three years for season three to come out, or.

[Ben Stiller]

No, no, the plan is not. Definitely not.

[Travis Kelsey]

Let's go.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. No, the plan is not. And hopefully we'll be announcing what the plan is very soon. That will not be that.

[Travis Kelsey]

All right, I'll be at Grand Central Station for it.

[Ben Stiller]

Let's go sit in a cube together and see what.

[Travis Kelsey]

Don't you threaten me with a good time. You're just going to have a courtside at the. At the Knicks game, just as.

[Ben Stiller]

By the way, I went to a Knicks game with Taylor. She was there, like, this was, like, 10 years ago, and I was there with my son. And she literally. We FaceTimed my daughter, who's a huge. She's 23 now, and we had the best time. She was incredible.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, yeah, I appreciate that. I. I think the same thing. So it's perfect.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah. And maybe we can get Taylor to another Knicks game.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Well, this is the time. You should definitely come, though, if you want to. I mean, I can hook that up.

[Travis Kelsey]

Saying I'm more. Yeah, I'm sure you would. Need help getting it. I mean. I mean, it's always a little smoother when you get.

[Ben Stiller]

All right, well, let's do it. Come on.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm in. Dude. Dude. Thank you so much.

[Ben Stiller]

Thanks, man.

[Travis Kelsey]

I am. This is a dream come true, man. You've been one of the idols of everyone from the 90s growing up and all the amazing movies you did. But now it's just so cool to, you know, see that you're every bit of a great dude as you are a great actor and director.

[Ben Stiller]

Thanks, man. Well, it's fun for us, you know, us like, talking like. I was talking like the Sandler, like we were working on.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Abby Gilmore. And, you know, it's. It's a kick because, like, you guys, like, when you were kids watching this stuff and that it resonated and. And we enjoy watching you guys do your thing.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Stiller]

Super cool.

[Travis Kelsey]

I can't wait to see what Hal's got in store for us. I can't wait, dude. Well, thanks again, brother man.

[Jason Kelsey]

Thanks, Ben.

[Ben Stiller]

Yeah. Great talking to you.

[Jason Kelsey]

Great talking to you.

[Ben Stiller]

And thanks for the watch. Waffles.

[Travis Kelsey]

Nice. Great waffle party.

[Jason Kelsey]

My first one. Look forward to that. Next time we'll have a cantaloupe with your face on it.

[Ben Stiller]

Okay. Exactly.

[Jason Kelsey]

Watermelon. Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Long live dogs.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's what they say over at the farmer's dog because they want all dogs to live a long, healthy life.

[Jason Kelsey]

Why should highly processed food be the standard for dogs? Dogs kept at a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer than overweight dogs.

[Travis Kelsey]

What?

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

The farmer's dog helps your dog reach and maintain healthy, healthy weight with a personalized meal plan of freshly made food.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's right. They calculate your dog's ideal daily calories based off their unique nutritional needs. And the food is delivered in pre portioned packs so you can feed your dog the right amount every time.

[Travis Kelsey]

The farmer's dog isn't fancy. It's simply real food with real benefits and it's delivered right to your door. That's what we call a win win.

[Jason Kelsey]

Get 50% off your first box of fresh healthy food at the farmersdog.com new heights. Plus you will get free shipping. Just go to the farmersdog.com new heist to get 50% off. That's the farmersdog.com new heights some people just know they could save hundreds on their car insurance by checking all state first.

[Travis Kelsey]

Like you know to check you took the gas pump out before driving away. I feel like sometimes I don't dude, that's why you went electric. It's because you kept doing that.

[Jason Kelsey]

Like you know to check you have your keys before getting in the car.

[Travis Kelsey]

Like you know to check the tickets were downloaded before you logged lost reception at the venue. Yeah, that's a tough one for sure happened.

[Jason Kelsey]

Like you know how to check the finale of your favorite show is being recorded.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, checking first is smart so check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate.

[Jason Kelsey]

Savings vary subject to terms and conditions and availability. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Northbrook, Illinois Alrighty. Thank you to our partner DraftKings Hoops Fans Fans, the most exciting month in college basketball is here with underdogs ready to fight their way to the top and establish teams defending their title. This is the time to lock in your picks at DraftKings. Right now they are offering all new customers 200 in bonus bets instantly after betting just $5. Download the DraftKings app now. Sign up using promo code New Heights and bet the unexpected. The crown is yours. Stay in on the action and use your 200 in bonus bets on DraftKings. Same game parlays for a shot at an even bigger payout. Combine multiple bets together from the same game. Love the thrill of live betting. DraftKings has you covered. Bet live on in progress games right as they happen. If sports betting is not yet available in your state, don't worry, you can still join in on all the fun with DraftKings pick six and have the shot to win cash Prizes. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app now. New customers use promo code New Heights and bet just $5 on any wager and get 200 bucks, bucks and bonus bets instantly. That's promo code New Heights only at DraftKingsports.

[Ben Stiller]

Book Gambling Problem. Call 1-800-Gambler in New York. Call 877-8-Hopeny or text hopeny 467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and resort in Kansas, 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Pick six not available everywhere, including New York and Ontario. Ontario. New customers only. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms or responsible gaming resources, see DKNG CO Audio.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, thanks for stopping by. Ben Stiller.

[Travis Kelsey]

How about that, man? What a guy, man. There's just some people that it's just. It's fun as hell to talk to. And the whole time you're talking to him, you're like, I can't believe I'm talking to. Yeah, it's amazing, dude. I love how he brought up Mystery Men right at the end there.

[Jason Kelsey]

I forgot all about that movie. I even told him I got. I forgot you did that, like. But that was a funny movie.

[Travis Kelsey]

That one's actually on. It's on cable TV a lot more than. Than you would expect. I'll just be searching the guide on, like, a cable network, and I'll come across Mystery Men every now and then and just press, press.

[Jason Kelsey]

I'll just click, you know, what was. This isn't a Ben Stiller movie. But whenever I think of, like, the superhero movie movies, the ones that are, like, off the beaten trail, like, it's like, clearly they were, like, kind of poking fun at the superhero movies. What's the. Is it Mr. Blank Man? What's the one with Doug? Do you know what you're not talking about? That's my favorite superhero movie of all time.

[Travis Kelsey]

Wayne's Brother dude.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, I'm sorry to segue out of.

[Travis Kelsey]

Blank man was fucking hilarious.

[Jason Kelsey]

That movie is amazing.

[Travis Kelsey]

Now, that's one. That's one I'd have to rewatch.

[Jason Kelsey]

I know we're on Ben Stiller on no, Ron Ben.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'd have to. I'd have to rewatch Blank Man. I haven't seen that one in fucking forever.

[Jason Kelsey]

What's Blank man on? Rotten Tomatoes.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, it's got to be through the roof.

[Jason Kelsey]

12% critic review.

[Travis Kelsey]

It's only funny because I didn't expect it to have a high, like, Rotten Tomato review, but still a classic.

[Jason Kelsey]

I don't care what the critics say. That movie's fucking great.

[Travis Kelsey]

Undeniable class. Classic.

[Jason Kelsey]

Anyways, Mystery Men, great movie. Ben Stiller is the best. All righty. Let's get in some March Madness.

[Travis Kelsey]

The March Madness brackets, brought to you by Reese's Pea Butter Cups. That's a Kelsey favorite right there. I definitely did get my Reese's backpacks and my Reese's varsity jacket. I am not in Kansas City, though, right now.

[Jason Kelsey]

I really like the. The. The seasonal Reese's cups that are the egg version. Yeah. Oh, I don't like white chocolate.

[Travis Kelsey]

These. Oh, no, these.

[Jason Kelsey]

There they are. There they are.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah. Any of the.

[Jason Kelsey]

They're a little bit thicker, a little bit more protein, a little more peanut butter to chocolate ratio.

[Travis Kelsey]

You tried these? Have you tried these sprinkle ones?

[Jason Kelsey]

I haven't. I didn't see that one in there.

[Travis Kelsey]

I gotta try that one out.

[Jason Kelsey]

All right.

[Travis Kelsey]

If there was a bracket of reset Reese's. Jason, what's in your final four?

[Jason Kelsey]

Final four of Reese's. Everybody keeps saying, like, why do they say Reese's? I was like, I don't know, guys. That's why we. That's how we fucking say it. I don't know what you'll say.

[Travis Kelsey]

How I've always said it.

[Jason Kelsey]

Everybody knows what we're talking about, so can we stop, like, acting like it's that big of a deal just because we have an accent.

[Travis Kelsey]

Reese's. That I'm saying, I'm not sorry.

[Jason Kelsey]

I'm not sorry at all. Obviously, original Reese's peanut butter cups have to be in it.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah. I think they're the number one. And they win it.

[Jason Kelsey]

I don't think they win it. Reese's Pieces, or as we would call it, Reese's Pieces.

[Travis Kelsey]

The Reese's Pieces.

[Jason Kelsey]

Reese's. Do not sleep on Reese's piece. I like Reese's Pieces better. I love Reese's Pieces.

[Travis Kelsey]

I like Reese's Pieces in, like, ice cream, and I can't just do them just straight up.

[Jason Kelsey]

You're fucking out of your mind. Go eat some Reese's Pieces. You'll.

[Travis Kelsey]

I know exactly. I know I'm in my mind, and my mind is telling me that's not how I want to enjoy my. My Reese's Pieces.

[Jason Kelsey]

I mean, it's great as an additive as well, but it's also great on its own. They're fantastic. Reese's Pieces. Fast break. You putting that up there? No, no. Take five. Take five or Reese's, I think it is, right?

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah. But I'm just not up there.

[Jason Kelsey]

Take five is great. You guys are out of your mind if you're not putting Take five.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm not saying it's not a product.

[Jason Kelsey]

I think it got switched. I think Reese's bought it.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, Reese's bought five now. Yeah, now. But that's just because they own the market.

[Jason Kelsey]

It literally says Reese's Take five. Yeah, I'm putting Reese's take five in my top four because the take five is fantastic. You're out of your mind.

[Travis Kelsey]

If you don't have it up there, you put Reese's.

[Ben Stiller]

All right, so Reese's take five. You're right. You're correct.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm just going off what the nice.

[Ben Stiller]

People at Reese's sent me as a document.

[Jason Kelsey]

God damn it.

[Ben Stiller]

Jesus.

[Jason Kelsey]

I know my Reese's. I know my Reese's.

[Travis Kelsey]

Have you said eggs yet? Have you said eggs yet?

[Jason Kelsey]

Not yet. That was gonna be my fourth one.

[Travis Kelsey]

All right, all right.

[Jason Kelsey]

I was gonna say Reese's eggs, not like the actual egg. I'm talking about, like the.

[Travis Kelsey]

See this Reese's cup. But the one thing you ate the most of Reese's was Reese's P Puffs. So you have to put Reese's puffs in there. You ate. That was the only cereal you ate, Jason.

[Jason Kelsey]

No, you're right. I did not. In my brain, I did not equate Reese's peanut butter puffs as the candy bracket.

[Travis Kelsey]

But I think we say it was a candy bracket.

[Jason Kelsey]

You're right. We said it's a Reese's bracket, so I think you're right. All right, so I got Reese's original, Reese's PCs takes five, and Reese's peanut Butter Puffs.

[Travis Kelsey]

Dang.

[Jason Kelsey]

But I would like the specialty holiday Reese's.

[Travis Kelsey]

The egg is. Is nostalgic, and it's the best.

[Jason Kelsey]

The egg or the Christmas tree, any of that stuff where it's like a new. Because it becomes a little bit thicker. And I just like the ratio better. But I can't take out the original, and I'm definitely not taking out. I guess I'll take out. Take five. Gosh, I like to take five, though.

[Travis Kelsey]

Back to basketball. March Madness is coming up, and, man, us sports fans, we love filling out these brackets. B. And as we said last week, we're doing it for the first time ever. New Heights Bracket Challenge.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's right.

[Travis Kelsey]

It is brought to you by Reese's or Reese's who want to get mad at us. The men's bracket deadline is this Thursday, March 20th, at noon Eastern. And the women's bracket deadline is Friday, March 21, at 11:30 Eastern. I don't know why we didn't just make them both the same time on two different days, but fill those out. Yeah, have some fun. Ladies and gents. I think we've limited it to one person per bracket or one bracket per person. So it's. This isn't just you fill out a 100 brackets and yeah, Improve your odds. Yeah, yeah. Improve the odds. Yeah. Just put in one bracket, guys. Don't be weirdos. Jason, have you filled out your bracket yet?

[Jason Kelsey]

I have not yet. Good.

[Travis Kelsey]

Well, you have till Thursday.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, I got time, but I would like to go over it. Do we have a bracket?

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, we got some brackets. How do you make your picks since you don't watch any college basketball?

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, as you know, playoffs always come down to the same things. Like it's all, you know, taking care of the basketball. You gotta, like, you know, how well you operate. End of game situation, two minute drill. Like this is what it comes down to in playoff basketball. Basketball.

[Travis Kelsey]

So you're going, you're going. Turnover margin.

[Jason Kelsey]

I go. Physicality.

[Travis Kelsey]

All right. Height.

[Jason Kelsey]

Physicality.

[Travis Kelsey]

You look at the height of the.

[Jason Kelsey]

Roster like I already know. Where's Michigan State at? Where's Michigan State? I'm putting them all the way through to the final four. I don't even need to see where they're at. I don't even need to see because I know Tom Izzo is going to have those guys playing hard and physical. I saw that they aren't the best three point shooting team, so I was like, they're in. Because every. All college basketball wants now is to shoot these three pointers. And Tom, Tom H. Is going to come. They're going to be undercutting their legs. Like, dude, you know, you stop a three point shooting team, you file the. Out of them on that first report. Let. Yeah, give them a couple free throws. It's going to throw off the rhythm and it's going to make them nervous every time you come out there.

[Travis Kelsey]

Right, Good. Yeah, it's a good. Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

You got to make these guys pay.

[Travis Kelsey]

You will impose your will on finesse players. This is true.

[Jason Kelsey]

Don't let these small shooting guards beat you in the tournament. How physical the. Out of these dudes.

[Travis Kelsey]

Jason, you're the. You're the three point equivalent to an offensive lineman, though.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, that's what you might think. I'm not, though. I am the. I am the undersized center. I'm the Dennis Rodman of offensive line football. That's right. I'm the. I'm the Draymond Green. Green.

[Travis Kelsey]

Nice. Michigan State.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, that's right. I'm not the biggest guy. I'm gonna. I'm gonna get in a mental.

[Travis Kelsey]

Let's go. Nice capacity.

[Jason Kelsey]

And I'm gonna impose my will on you in a weird way.

[Travis Kelsey]

Jaymon Green.

[Jason Kelsey]

Who else we got?

[Travis Kelsey]

We got a bunch.

[Jason Kelsey]

All right, so this is the East East. Okay, so obviously Duke. Yeah, I mean, well, you got the.

[Travis Kelsey]

Four playing games too, so can't, can't forget about those.

[Jason Kelsey]

I never worry about the playing games. If you got to make it into the tournament on a playing game, I'm not interested. Go back up. Go back up. We're starting the east.

[Travis Kelsey]

The play 11 seeds. They're like. They're not just the worst seeds.

[Jason Kelsey]

If you got to be a play in, you're out. I'm not talking to you. There shouldn't even be play in games. All the play ins get eliminated in my bracket. Round one after they get in.

[Travis Kelsey]

Well, Texas and Xavier might have something to say about that. Damn it.

[Jason Kelsey]

Texas is in there. I like Texas a lot.

[Ben Stiller]

Fuck.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, rules are rules. Rules are rules. I don't make them, they just are what they are. Texas is out in round one. All right, we got Duke against American. Doesn't even have a logo in there. It's just a playing game.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's why there's a playing game, Jason.

[Jason Kelsey]

All right. I don't even need to see who they're playing in. Duke's advancing. All right.

[Travis Kelsey]

It's all mashups. I could. I'm going to have to fill out a bracket and figure it out, but I will make sure that you guys know I'm a big fan of the SEC games or SEC teams.

[Jason Kelsey]

We're doing it right now, Travis.

[Travis Kelsey]

No, we're not.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's what this is.

[Travis Kelsey]

No, this is us just kind of going over our bracket from here. I'm telling you who I like in these. I'm not going to tell you exactly who I have in coming out though.

[Jason Kelsey]

Okay, fine. All right.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm not going to let you fucking just copy my bracket, Jason, because you know nothing.

[Jason Kelsey]

I don't want to copy your bracket. I'm not. I know more about mentality and physicality and that's all that comes down. Basketball is all about physical technicality.

[Travis Kelsey]

Well, just like Florida is one of the most, is one of the biggest teams.

[Jason Kelsey]

All right, Florida. Florida's back.

[Travis Kelsey]

The Gators.

[Jason Kelsey]

We got Memphis, Colorado State.

[Travis Kelsey]

Memphis is solid. I, I think the Turks. The west has one of my favorite teams in the NCAA right now, and that's Drake. Drake. Drake University. Yeah, Drake.

[Ben Stiller]

Where is Drake?

[Travis Kelsey]

They have a fun story. They're, they're coach is. And really four or at least four of their players are from Division 2. I think it was Northwest Missouri. Yeah, Northwest Missouri State.

[Jason Kelsey]

Coach. The coach brought them all with them.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, they had a lot of transfers when the Drake coach from Last year went to West Virginia. A lot of the players that were on that team kind of went on their own or did their own thing. And then the new head coach was looking for players to, to bring in, so he brought in his D two guys and a couple guys from Wyoming. They got some guys that could play. Although I think Missouri is a really good team. That's going to be a tough game for him. I mean, I got a lot of. That's like my Cinderella.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's your. Yeah. They're also older.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm rooting for them.

[Jason Kelsey]

They're also older for a lot of the better teams than ncaa. Is that correct?

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

And then on top of watching Texas Tech, I know Patty Mahomes is going to love hearing this. If they can stay healthy and they, if they could, I think they got a great coach, they got great players, a lot of athletes. They can make a run at it.

[Jason Kelsey]

What about them Jayhawks down there? They're usually pretty good.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah. Hunter Dickinson, I think, you know, Kansas, Bill Self. They're always going to be a team that you gotta. You gotta account for, man. They could. They can. They could pull it together and make a run against anybody. So you gotta keep them in mind.

[Jason Kelsey]

Illinois, Kentucky versus Troy. Ucla, Utah State, Tennessee. See Wofford.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, dude, you'd love this. Wooford has a guy that shoots the ball. Shoots free throws underhand.

[Jason Kelsey]

No way.

[Travis Kelsey]

I knew you were going to love this.

[Jason Kelsey]

I mean, I love that. But for that alone, I'm picking Tennessee. They're getting too. They're being too. They're going against the trend. Too hard for me to go with them. They've gone. They're a little bit too gimmicky. Got to pick Tennessee in that matchup.

[Travis Kelsey]

Man. You're hilarious, dude.

[Jason Kelsey]

Texas A and M versus Yale. Listen, as a rule, I might almost fill out my bracket based on gpa. If a team has a higher gpa, I'm picking them to lose. And I might do that all the way through to the championship game.

[Travis Kelsey]

Jason, we know that GPAs don't reflect actual intelligence.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, no, I. I think it. I think GPAs reflect athleticism. And typically speaking, it takes. Listen, if you're too smart, you're. You're too hesitant to do stupid things. And you have to be willing to do stupid things.

[Travis Kelsey]

You have to be willing.

[Jason Kelsey]

You gotta be. You gotta be willing to take a risk and take a chance and do something like.

[Travis Kelsey]

You gotta be stupid.

[Jason Kelsey]

There's no way that guy's doing that.

[Travis Kelsey]

There's no way that guy's stupid enough.

[Jason Kelsey]

To believe there's no way that guy's gonna try that move. Oh, my go. That shit just worked. What the fuck?

[Travis Kelsey]

And that's. I mean, that's how I got to the NFL, so.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, well, I'm picking Texas A&M versus them silver spoon fucks at Yale.

[Travis Kelsey]

That was so uncult.

[Jason Kelsey]

What is Yale's. What is. What is their mascot? Is it just like a pencil?

[Travis Kelsey]

The Yale 2%?

[Jason Kelsey]

The Yale Bears.

[Ben Stiller]

It's a bulldog.

[Jason Kelsey]

What is a Yale?

[Travis Kelsey]

It's a bulldog.

[Jason Kelsey]

Bulldog.

[Travis Kelsey]

Handsome Dan.

[Jason Kelsey]

Georgia Handsome Dan. All right, Texas A. That's enough on Yale. All right, Texas A and M, let's just call they. They're going to be just fine. I think those Yale people are going to be just fine. Yeah. Okay. Ole Miss. Iowa State. Lipscomb. I'm going to go with Iowa, baby.

[Travis Kelsey]

Lipscomb. I was. Iowa State is sneaky.

[Ben Stiller]

They be.

[Travis Kelsey]

They're the ones that kick the Bearcats out of the. The Big 12.

[Jason Kelsey]

I tell you what, I always fill up my bracket based on what school I think would win in a fight. Like, if I think Iowa State would beat Lipscomb, I'm going to go.

[Travis Kelsey]

Iowa State in a fight.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. I just think at the end of the day, the, like, mentality of the university rubs off on the mentality of the team a lot of the times. And I just like the mentality approach because I don't know about basketball. So that's my only thing I can go off of. Marquette versus New Mexico. New Mexico's. That's a tough one because New Mexico is probably pretty squirrely. Strikes me as a squirrely group. Marquette. Strikes me as.

[Travis Kelsey]

Marquette's got one of the best basketball players in the country.

[Jason Kelsey]

Marquette strikes me as a little bit of the silver spoon. This. Where's Marquette at? What's.

[Travis Kelsey]

What's Chicago, I believe.

[Jason Kelsey]

Chicago.

[Travis Kelsey]

No, no, no. Is it. It's outside of Chicago. Chicago, right. Wisconsin.

[Jason Kelsey]

It's close. Close.

[Travis Kelsey]

I don't know why I said Chicago.

[Jason Kelsey]

All right. I kind of. I respect Marquette. If they're out of Wisconsin.

[Travis Kelsey]

One of our favorite actors ever went to Marquette. Played rugby there.

[Jason Kelsey]

Denzel Washington.

[Travis Kelsey]

Not even.

[Ben Stiller]

Close.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, God. What?

[Travis Kelsey]

No, the answer is Chris Farley.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, I should have known that one. I should have known that one.

[Travis Kelsey]

It was. Now I gotta know where Denzel go. I don't think somebody drug me, though.

[Jason Kelsey]

I'm pretty sure.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, man. Denzel went to Fordham. Fordham.

[Jason Kelsey]

Fordham is Patriot League.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, man, that's hilarious. I know. This is so funny. Plays a Hooper at Fordham. He was a Hooper. He didn't play rugby. He's a Hooper.

[Jason Kelsey]

He's a basketball player. That Pinky says he played football. Yeah, you. You've seen that. Pinky.

[Travis Kelsey]

Wait. So, Jason, we've only talked about the men's bracket.

[Ben Stiller]

Do you use the.

[Travis Kelsey]

The same metric system to figure out who's going to win the women's bracket? Like, do you just look at who. Who would win the brawl?

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, wow. I haven't thought about it that way. No, I don't use the same metric women's. I just go with. I just put Yukon as the winner every single year.

[Travis Kelsey]

I don't know they're the same anymore.

[Jason Kelsey]

I put Yukon as the winner every single year. And that'll be until Gino retires. And then I just go based on overall team height average. Whoever's the taller team. Then I just fill it out that way.

[Travis Kelsey]

You're hilarious. I haven't even. I haven't peaked at the women's as much. Where's K State? I know they won the Big 12. Nice. They're up there. There. Five seed. Solid, solid five seed. We do know that JuJu Watkins is at the top of. Of her game. Texas is. God damn, they're. Yeah. The number one seed. I think it's kind of fair to say they're the number one seeds. Are.

[Jason Kelsey]

I feel like there's less upsets in the women's bracket usually than there are in like the men's bracket. Is that fair to say?

[Travis Kelsey]

I think it's fair to say, at least for the number one seeds. You don't see the number one seeds get kicked as much as you do in men's brackets.

[Jason Kelsey]

In my extensive knowledge of both men's basketball and women's NCAA brackets, I like to make broad, sweeping generalizations.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, can't forget South Carolina. They've been at the top for quite a while now. They're kind of like the Yukon of. Of the modern day. They have a lot of talent there year in, year out.

[Jason Kelsey]

Who's the tallest team? Women's college college basketball.

[Travis Kelsey]

Jason is supposed to be 45 minutes. He did well.

[Jason Kelsey]

There's no single team in women's college basketball. Duke and Florida State are often cited as having some of the tallest players. Both teams average isn't even six, seven and a half. While there is no definitive tallest team in women's college basketball, Duke and Florida State are often cited as having some of the tallest players. Both teams averaging around seven six and seven. Six foot seven and a half per player. Putting Duke and Florida State where are they at? Those are my top two teams in women's college basketball outside of Yukon.

[Ben Stiller]

Where the is Duke? I think they're a two seed.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, Duke's two seed.

[Jason Kelsey]

One seed in my bracket.

[Travis Kelsey]

Okay, great. Who's your other team? Florida state.

[Jason Kelsey]

Florida State.

[Ben Stiller]

6.

[Jason Kelsey]

Dude, I feel really good about this.

[Ben Stiller]

I don't know.

[Travis Kelsey]

Jason's going with height. I'm gonna pick the star. Stars. Putting Gigi in the final four. I'm gonna pick the stars as well. I'm picking the stars. There's. There's like five or six real bonafide.

[Ben Stiller]

Stars in that woman's bracket.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm gonna go ahead and slide them on forward.

[Jason Kelsey]

They're gonna be a start till they meet that height. Let you know that right now. Get that shot swatted. No, she's gonna go for that layer just fine.

[Ben Stiller]

No. No.

[Travis Kelsey]

All right, now that does it for March Madness bracket challenge, brought to you by Reese's. Or Reese's. Whatever one you want to call it, Winning never tasted so good. Whether you're watching the games or filling out your brackets, feed your fandom with Reese's this March Madness.

[Jason Kelsey]

Hey, again.

[Travis Kelsey]

To enter, go to the link in the description of the episode. Fill out your bracket and you could win a new Heights golden cup. Man, who knows? Maybe I can win one or get one one of these days and it will be filled with Reese's peanut butter.

[Jason Kelsey]

Cups filled with mine's filled with playing cards.

[Travis Kelsey]

I think they threw in some Reese's eggs too. Who knows? Maybe you'll get some puffs, some Reese's PC's. But yeah, make sure you guys fill those brackets up. Men's bracket again, Thursday by noon. Women's bracket, Friday by 11:30 all Eastern time. Yeah, good luck to the crew. To the 92 percenters that wraps up.

[Jason Kelsey]

Another episode of New Heights. Thank you to Ben Stiller. Make sure you're subscribed on YouTube to the new Heights channel and follow New Heights on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. Please go check out our incredible guest episodes from last week, Matthew Stafford and Jason Sudeikis. You can also listen to new episodes of New Heights early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus on the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts.

[Travis Kelsey]

Once again, new Heights, a wonder show produced by Wave sports and entertainment and brought to you by Nike. When the world says you can't win, Nike says so win. Follow the show on all social media doheistow with one f for fun clips throughout the week. Ben Stiller, thank you dude, that was a blast. Thanks to our production and crew for making us all look great, like we actually know what we're doing. And to the 92 percenters. We'll see you guys next week. Appreciate you tuning in. Follow New Heights on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcast. Podcast. You can listen to New Heights early and ad free. Plus enjoy exclusive episodes of the show by joining Wonder plus in the Wondry App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify today.

[Jason Kelsey]

Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey every.

[Ben Stiller]

Big moment starts with a big dream. But what happens when that big dream turns out to be a big, big flop? From Wondery and ill Media, I'm Misha Brown and this is the Big Flop. Every week, comedians join me to chronicle the biggest flubs, fails and blunders of all time. Like Quibi, it's kind of like when.

[Jason Kelsey]

You give yourself your own nickname and.

[Ben Stiller]

You try to like get other people to do it. And the 2019 movie adaptation of Cats. Like if I'm watching the dancing and I'm noticing the feet aren't touching the.

[Jason Kelsey]

Ground, there's there's something wrong with the movie.

[Ben Stiller]

Find out what happens when massive hype turns into major fiasco. Enjoy the Big Flop on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to the Big Flop early and ad free on Wondery Plus. Get started with your free trial at wondery.com Plus.