Sanders’ Drop, Gorilla Fights and Ben Affleck on Accountant 2, Damon’s Abs and Catching with Brady | EP 137

Summary

Podcast Summary: New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce - EP 137

Episode Title: Sanders’ Drop, Gorilla Fights and Ben Affleck on Accountant 2, Damon’s Abs and Catching with Brady
Release Date: April 30, 2025
Host: Wondery
Guests: Ben Affleck

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1. NFL Draft Analysis

Chiefs’ Draft Strategy

Jason and Travis kick off the episode with an in-depth analysis of the Kansas City Chiefs' recent draft choices. They focus on the selection of Josh Simmons, the Chiefs' 32nd overall pick in the first round—a move they consider a significant steal due to Simmons' impressive performance on tape despite his patella tendon injury.

• Travis Kelsey (09:06): "This could be unbelievable value if he comes back from the knee injury."
• Jason Kelsey (10:11): "The defense is very close to being unbelievable... they've needed to revamp a little bit of that."

Eagles’ Draft Picks

Transitioning to the Philadelphia Eagles, the brothers discuss the team’s strategic selections, highlighting the trade-up to acquire Jihad Campbell from Alabama. They commend the Eagles for consistently finding value in their draft picks, especially in positions like linebacker and safety.

• Jason Kelsey (16:05): "The Eagles have done a great job of just picking really good players for value picks."
• Travis Kelsey (16:33): "She is somebody's mother... Donna Kelsey is joining us for a Mother's Day special."

Shadar Sanders' Draft Drop

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around Shadar Sanders, a top quarterback prospect who slid to the fifth round despite projections placing him in the first round. Jason and Travis explore the possible reasons behind his draft position, debating whether it was due to character concerns or other factors.

• Travis Kelsey (23:53): "I feel like this is going to be such a fresh start for him."
• Jason Kelsey (28:05): "Teams just do not think the potential of Shadar Sanders panning out at the next level is high enough to warrant an earlier pick."

They delve into the challenges teams face when evaluating quarterback potential, emphasizing the unpredictability of draft outcomes.

Character Concerns and Player Evaluations

The brothers draw parallels between Shadar Sanders’ situation and Jason’s own drafting experiences, particularly addressing character concerns that have historically impacted player selections.

• Travis Kelsey (30:19): "Character concerns fell into the sixth round."
• Jason Kelsey (30:25): "I've heard he's an asshole... loses his temper all the time."

They humorously critique Sanders' draft placement while advocating for giving talented players the opportunity to prove themselves.

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2. Special Interview with Ben Affleck

The highlight of this episode is an engaging interview with acclaimed actor, director, and producer Ben Affleck, who discusses his upcoming film "The Accountant 2."

Portraying Characters on the Spectrum

Ben delves into his portrayal of a character on the autism spectrum, sharing insights on the research and personal connections that informed his performance. He emphasizes the importance of authenticity and empathy in representing such characters.

• Ben Affleck (39:51): "I really wanted to bring that humanity up."
• Jason Kelsey (39:50): "My wife works with kids on the spectrum... you do so well."

Themes of Brotherhood and Friendship

Affleck explores the recurring themes of brotherhood and friendship in his films, drawing parallels to his own experiences and the dynamics within a football team. He reflects on how these relationships shape personal growth and resilience.

• Ben Affleck (44:56): "That's a theme that's really meaningful to me."
• Jason Kelsey (44:56): "Yes, absolutely."

Insights on Success and Personal Growth

The conversation shifts to the nature of success, resilience, and the importance of continuous self-improvement—both in acting and in sports. Ben relates his experiences in the film industry to the rigorous demands of professional football.

• Ben Affleck (55:59): "There's definitely a flow state with act, with sports..."
• Travis Kelsey (60:42): "Every great player that I know is the right amount of insecure."

Fun Anecdotes and Shared Experiences

The interview takes a light-hearted turn as Ben shares amusing stories from his interactions with football legends like Tom Brady. The camaraderie between the guests adds a personal touch to the discussion.

• Ben Affleck (77:00): "I caught it... he's like, I'm gonna blow this dude."
• Travis Kelsey (81:38): "We hung out with Chandler Parsons and Blake Griffin... Andrew Santino was a stick."

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3. Personal Stories and Fun Segments

Golf Tournament Adventures

Jason and Travis recount their experiences at the Justin Timberlake 8am Golf Tournament in Las Vegas, highlighting their interactions with celebrities and fellow athletes. They share humorous moments, including their struggles with putting and enjoying karaoke sessions.

• Jason Kelsey (93:27): "Playing with a bunch of the coolest people on the planet."
• Travis Kelsey (96:17): "They make you feel good about it."

No Dumb Questions Segment

Wrapping up the content, the hosts engage in the "No Dumb Questions" segment, addressing a quirky debate on whether 100 guys could defeat a gorilla in hand-to-hand combat. Their humorous banter underscores the lighthearted nature of the show.

• Jason Kelsey (99:05): "Humans don't fight hand to hand... we use tools."
• Travis Kelsey (99:18): "They're 20 times stronger than us. That's why it's a dumb question."

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4. Upcoming Episodes and Announcements

As the episode concludes, Jason and Travis tease upcoming content, including a special Mother’s Day episode featuring Donna Kelsey. They encourage listeners to subscribe and follow their social media for more updates and exclusive content.

• Travis Kelsey (100:43): "Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify today."
• Jason Kelsey (103:04): "Complete honor, man. This was awesome."

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Notable Quotes:

• Travis Kelsey (09:06): "This could be unbelievable value if he comes back from the knee injury."
• Jason Kelsey (16:05): "The Eagles have done a great job of just picking really good players for value picks."
• Ben Affleck (39:51): "I really wanted to bring that humanity up."
• Jason Kelsey (28:05): "Teams just do not think the potential of Shadar Sanders panning out at the next level is high enough to warrant an earlier pick."
• Travis Kelsey (60:42): "Every great player that I know is the right amount of insecure."

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Conclusion:

Episode 137 of "New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce" offers a compelling blend of professional sports analysis and celebrity insight. Through their candid discussions on the NFL draft and an enlightening interview with Ben Affleck, the Kelce brothers provide listeners with a comprehensive and entertaining look into the intersections of sports, film, and personal growth. The episode is enriched with humor, heartfelt moments, and expert commentary, making it a must-listen for both football enthusiasts and fans of engaging storytelling.

Transcript

[Travis Kelsey]

Wondry plus subscribers can listen to new heights early and ad free, plus unlock access to exclusive episodes of the show.

[Jason Kelsey]

Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify today.

[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

We know sticking to a routine can be hard, but Peloton helps you break through fitness, boredom, fitness plateaus and ultimately achieve your golf.

[Jason Kelsey]

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[Brandon Borders]

Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER in New York, call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-78-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org on behalf of Boot Hill Casino in Resorting, Kansas, 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Boyd in Ontario, Travis Kelce also famously.

[Jason Kelsey]

Slid from character concerns. So Shador, look no further. This could be you.

[Travis Kelsey]

Jason Kelsey Character concerns fell into the six round.

[Jason Kelsey]

Character concerns and size concerns. What do you think about that Jason Kelsey guy? Well, I've heard he's an Asshole.

[Travis Kelsey]

He's a fucking lunatic.

[Jason Kelsey]

Loses his temper all the times and on top of that, he's too small. Let's put him in the six round.

[Travis Kelsey]

Welcome back to New Heights. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, a wonder show produced by Wave Sports and Entertainment and brought to you by Duncan Donuts. No way.

[Jason Kelsey]

What a great sponsor.

[Travis Kelsey]

They sent me munchkins. The wonderful delight that just, it doesn't make you feel like you're eating too bad until the entire box is gone. You're like, oh, shit, that was a lot of donuts I just ate.

[Jason Kelsey]

I mean, that's the trick of it, right? Just make them smaller, eat more. I'm definitely going to go breakfast sandwich.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, what you got there?

[Jason Kelsey]

Sausage, chicken, cheese, English muffin. Pretty damn good.

[Travis Kelsey]

Where your hosts? I'm Travis Kelsey. My big brother Jason Kelsey out of Cleveland Heights, Ohio. Shout out to the Cavs, baby. The old Coliseum on Richfield. Cavs swept the heat. Looking to advance already getting some rest days. Subscribe on YouTube 13 plus wherever you get your podcast and follow the show on social media at New Heights show with one s Jason. Let the people know what we got coming.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, you're going to want to stay tuned. We are going to recap everything that happened in the NFL draft. Well, not everything. We're going to cut the hot spot spots like usual, answer some of your no dumb questions and we're gonna get to a great combo with the one and only Mr. Ben Affleck. Okay, time out. Is it, is it Affleck or Aflac?

[Travis Kelsey]

It's Affleck, I believe.

[Jason Kelsey]

I always call him Ben Affleck.

[Travis Kelsey]

It's not it. You gotta say it right. I probably said Ben Affleck as well.

[Jason Kelsey]

I mean it's definitely eck, but I feel like everybody pronounces it Ben Affleck.

[Travis Kelsey]

No, no, I don't think anybody does.

[Jason Kelsey]

I've never heard anybody call Ben Ben Affleck. Never heard that.

[Travis Kelsey]

I think I hear it every single time I hear somebody say his name.

[Jason Kelsey]

Brandon, say Ben's name.

[E]

Ben Affleck.

[Jason Kelsey]

You're only saying it because we just.

[E]

Went over Ben Affleck. How fast was that? How quick on the draw was I with that Ben Affleck.

[Travis Kelsey]

That was quick. That was quick.

[Jason Kelsey]

Am I just in a like a black mirror episode right now? I feel like that the whole there's like a whole time conundrum thing of multi universal.

[Travis Kelsey]

You've been saying Aflac your entire life. But anybody that actually sees how his name is like wrote and written or like spelled they're gonna say it correctly. It's like people calling us Kelsey our entire lives.

[Jason Kelsey]

No, that's. That's where you're wrong. Before we get into that, we're gonna get to that thing we always get to. New news. Alrighty. New news is brought to you express. Let's start with some Homage promo. That's right. We're gonna sell you some new news from our friends at Homage. From now until May 4th, we're offering 25 off New Heights apparel. So it's a perfect time to. To treat yourself as. Oh, my God, what was the name from Parks and Rec? Tom Haver.

[E]

Haverford.

[Jason Kelsey]

Haverford. He doesn't know what I'm talking about. Anyways, go treat yourself. Go to homage.com new heights and use promo code. New heights 25. All right, guest episode announcement. We're going to be back next week with another episode 90 percenters are going to want to see. Yeah, we can say who it is if we really want to. Do we want to say.

[Travis Kelsey]

No, I think we should keep it on ice for a second.

[Jason Kelsey]

Should we get them teasers? Let's do some teasers.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, all right, all right, all right.

[Jason Kelsey]

We can't say. We can't say this person's name, gender, where they're from, or where they live currently.

[Travis Kelsey]

Okay. She is somebody's mother.

[Jason Kelsey]

Travis, you can't say what gender it is.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, you're right.

[Ben Affleck]

All right.

[Travis Kelsey]

He won that one.

[Jason Kelsey]

God damn it, Travis.

[Travis Kelsey]

Our mom is joining us.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, Donna Kelsey's joining us.

[Travis Kelsey]

Keep it together.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. No, we clearly could not.

[Travis Kelsey]

It's Mother's Day special. Everybody knew who was coming on. We're getting Donna Kelsey on the show. It's going to be a blast, because that's what Donna is. She's an absolute blast of a human being.

[Jason Kelsey]

It's gonna be great.

[Travis Kelsey]

I haven't had Mama Kelson in a while, so you guys will get caught up with how Mommy's doing.

[Jason Kelsey]

Travis, you're a grown man. Stop calling Mommy Mommy. Stop it.

[Travis Kelsey]

Nope.

[Jason Kelsey]

Stop that right now.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm gonna keep doing it. I'm so comfortable with my manhood, Jason.

[Jason Kelsey]

It's not about a manhood, Travis. It's about being. I don't know, but it seems it's about being not weird. What is? Okay, Mommy. I mean, if you say it like that when you're around her. Not weird. But when you say having mommy on, that's weird.

[Travis Kelsey]

No, it's not.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yes, girly.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, no, Jason, you need to correct her right now. She either calls you dad Or Dada. She does not call you daddy. She does not call you daddy. If she calls you daddy, that's just weird.

[Jason Kelsey]

No, Travis, she's a toddler. All right, we got our mom coming on special episode. That's it for new news brought to you by Merit Express.

[Travis Kelsey]

All right, now we've actually got some NFL news. Last week was the NFL draft and apparently everyone tuned in.

[Jason Kelsey]

Why is the NFL draft so much better than the other drafts? Besides the NFL just being more watched, I think.

[Travis Kelsey]

What's the turnover in the NFL? I think there's like, there's always like at least like 300 to 400 new players every single year. I don't think it's like that in any other sport. Yeah, maybe baseball.

[Jason Kelsey]

The chances of the players you're watching get picked in the NBA actually making a difference outside of like the top. Yeah, you know what, five picks like every year, it's like kind of a crapshoot a little bit. Is that what you're saying?

[Travis Kelsey]

I think so. And I think the, the entire, like. I don't know. That's a great question. I'm trying to like compare it to other sports, but college basketball I would assume is just as exciting as college football and you know, the, the anticipation of the greatest players in that league going to the next level. I don't know. It's a great question. I think this is why football is king.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. All right.

[Travis Kelsey]

And let's look at the. Let's look at who the Chiefs picked.

[Jason Kelsey]

Sure.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, let's look at it. Round number one, 32nd overall pick, Josh Simmons. Offensive tackle out of Ohio State. 6, 5, 3, 17. That's a big old boy right there.

[Jason Kelsey]

Big boy.

[Travis Kelsey]

How big of a boy?

[Jason Kelsey]

How are you? This is one of the guys I actually watched a little bit. I like absolutely love this guy on tape. The way he moves reminds me a lot of some high level players. We bends, plays with his ass low to the ground. His arms only say 33, but it feels like he's got much bigger lengths than that. He is big, he's strong, he moves people. He's an outstanding pass blocker. This and the Eagles first round picks were two of the biggest steals in the draft. I'm not just saying that because they're both our teams. I really think if Josh Simmons doesn't tear his patella tendon, he's the first tackle off the board. Most likely the fact that the Chiefs got him at 32 could be like unbelievable value if he comes back from the knee injury. Talking about beach, we're going to have to wait and see how this kid comes back from this injury.

[Travis Kelsey]

No, I think it's. I think it's a sign of seal delivered. This guy's going to be a Hall of Famer.

[Jason Kelsey]

I mean, if he comes back from the knee, there's a very good chance. This guy was very impressive.

[Travis Kelsey]

If something tells me he's already. He's already there.

[Jason Kelsey]

He's already there.

[Travis Kelsey]

Number 63, Omar Norman. Lot. How about it? D tackle out of Tennessee. First defensive tackle to be selected by the Chiefs in the second round since defensive tackle Chris Jones. Hey, you gotta love being in the same conversations as Chris Jones. Saw the. I've only seen highlights of these guys and absolute stud. Absolute stud. Kind of revamped offensive line. Defensive line. With our first two to three picks, we went with Ashton. Gosh, I don't know how to say his last name. Jalot.

[Jason Kelsey]

Jalati.

[Travis Kelsey]

Jaladi. You sure it's definitely not it?

[Jason Kelsey]

No, it's not it. It might be it actually. I have no idea. Played at Louisville though. Tells me he's got a blue collar kid. Hard worker.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah. If you're going to the third round with the Chiefs, you're going to be just fine. I know. I know one or two guys that are still on the team 13 years down the road. They got picked in the third round.

[Jason Kelsey]

Same defensive line coach is George Carloftis. I mean, I'm a big fan of these top three picks. I think the Chiefs clearly last year obviously struggled at the tackle position. They answered that right away with Josh Simmons, a kid that could have incredible upside. And then really they bolster the defensive line with the next two picks, which you know, they needed to do. I think that the defense is very close to being unbelievable and because of Spags and some of the pieces, it was unbelievable last year. But they've needed to revamp a little bit of that. That size and athleticism up front and hopefully these two kids can do that.

[Travis Kelsey]

You know it. Well, we didn't leave the third round without attacking the. The DB room. Got a cornerback out of Cal. Noah Williams led the FBS with seven interceptions. So hey, I guess when we. You already know we could love a good ball Hawk in the secondary now he's got some accolades and I mean seven picks, that's. I mean you got to love a DB who can catch the ball. Jalen Royal is wide receiver out of Utah state. This dude, fourth round getting a guy that runs a 4, 4, 2 that just takes shit to the house. I saw that he had like 15 touchdowns this year or something like that.

[Jason Kelsey]

Runs a 4, 4, 2.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, he's a, he's a strong, he's a strong wide receiver now. Round 5.

[Jason Kelsey]

Jeffrey Basa, linebacker, Oregon Tallied at least 45 tackles in each of his first four seasons with the Ducks. Again, not that impressive. He served as Oregon's green dot in 2024, meaning I'll just have his 45 tackles in each of his first four seasons. Like this special team is going to get 45 tackles. Brandon, he served as Oregon's green dot in 2024, Meaning he called the defensive plays on field. That is what that means. You want to say the last guy.

[Travis Kelsey]

Richard Smith, running back, SMU heard through the grapevine, through my guy, Garrick Dieter and his SMU connects. Shout out to Dietz. He was saying that this guy is a baller. He's just an all around baller. He had 1977 all purpose yards, which is pretty ridiculous. He ran the third fastest 40 yard dash of any running back at the combine.

[Ben Affleck]

Oh.

[Travis Kelsey]

So yes, really, really excited about this guy. He's a wide receiver, I believe, turned running back and yeah, excited to get an athlete like that and a guy that could just, you know, get the ball in his hands and do something with it.

[Jason Kelsey]

Sounds like a dual threat, multiple purpose type running back. Use them in a lot of different ways. You guys had your back that did that a lot last year was P. Ryan, which I loved. I loved Samaj P. Ryan. Third down back to Cincy.

[Travis Kelsey]

Man. God damn it. That guy was good, man. Awesome, awesome teammate too.

[Jason Kelsey]

I dug his overall vibe. Rashard, maybe he can fill in that role. That's a crucial role. We lost our guy there, Kenny Gainwell, he was a big third down back for us for a long time. Moved on this offseason. It's an important piece that a lot of times gets overlooked. Who's that back? That is kind of that Jack of all trades. Third down, very reliable. So he'll have a chance to compete round seven.

[Travis Kelsey]

I love, love what we did in the draft though. Handled some. We lost some guys on the, on the defensive line, filled those roles. Got a big old tackle to protect Pat and, and, and move some bodies in the run game. And then on top of that, just add pieces left and right in the secondary and on the offensive weapons side, man, it's uh. I'm pumped, man. I'm pumped to get these guys in the building and who knows what else. V Just cooking up with all the undrafted free agents that we're going to see in rookie minicamp next week.

[Jason Kelsey]

It's an exciting time of year, man. You get to see. For those of you that don't know we're going through all these draft picks, I don't think Travis or I put a lot of stock into pre draft analysis. And the reason for that is like, you never know. You. I mean, sometimes you have a really good feeling about a guy. A lot of times teams will feel really good about a number of their guys. But at the end of the day, once the guy gets out there, once he gets in the building, that's when you really get to start to know who's who and what guys, you know, kind of have it. Whether it's all the physical stature stuff, the mental acuity, the competitive nature, none of that stuff is really going to fully be transparent until you start seeing them in person against NFL guys out on the field. So it's an exciting time to be in the NFL. Like, I think for all the fans, the exciting thing just happened. The draft, right. For players and teammates. Now's the exciting time. Now we're going to get to see all these guys and all these new pieces and actually see, you know, who can play and who can compete and.

[Travis Kelsey]

Who'S going to make the building fun, man. Who's going to come in and juice us up and. And help the culture be even more exciting than what it is.

[Jason Kelsey]

Hell yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Let's. Let's look at these Eagles picks, man. What'd you guys go with?

[Jason Kelsey]

Eagles, first round. We trade with you guys. How about that? Go from competing in the super bowl to trade in draft picks. Let me tell you about my best friend, the one who let me trade up to stop somebody else from taking him. Yeah. So we traded with the Kansas city chiefs from 32 to 31. Just one spot to get Jihad Campbell from Alabama. Love this pick. I love this pick because I think the Eagles, what they've done really well the last few drafts that have panned out for them is they've gotten amazing value at different spots where guys start to slide and like they are regarded by everybody out there as being players that are really, really talented that should have been taken higher. But for whatever reason, whether there's an injury like what happened with Josh Simmons, or maybe it's a position that doesn't necessarily get rated as highly, or there's times that are caused for the concern, the Eagles have done a great job of just picking really good players for value picks. Where that guy should have gone before that based on how he was as A college player. And I think they got that with John Campbell. He's a linebacker for some reason. Off ball linebacker is a position that's been a little bit devalued in the NFL recently. Everybody tends to have gone defensive line or DBs with these picks early. I think the Eagles saw last year how much Zach Bond made a difference to the overall defense for Philadelphia. He was in for defensive player of the year. The Eagles have great coaches. They have. And they probably have a lot of confidence in their ability to. Of these coaches to scout different players. So they end up getting a guy that they really feel really highly about. Now they're going to pair him with Zach Bond and I mean, this is an amazingly talented second level now in the Philadelphia Eagles with this guy. You can also rush the passer, I guess. But no, I'm excited. I'm excited to watch him play. Round 2 pick 64, safety Andrew Bakuba out of Texas. Don't know much about him, to be honest with you. Haven't watched a lot of college football. But Brandon Borders, our resident Texas expert, says he's a little guy that hits really hard.

[Travis Kelsey]

Dog. You got a dog.

[Ben Affleck]

You got a dog.

[Travis Kelsey]

I gotta hype with my guy.

[Jason Kelsey]

I love it, I love it, I love it. A lot of hype coming out of Andrew Makuba and I feel like another one. It's another similar pick where it feels like he was slated higher and the Eagles ended up getting him in the second round of pick 64. Round four, they go deep at the tackle, Ty Robinson, and not only are they getting guys of great value, they're getting guys in positions that they need. Right linebacker. They lost a couple linebackers in the off season. Nakobe Dean's coming off of injury. They need to continue to upgrade that position. They get safety Andrew McCoob after letting C.J. g.J. Go last year. Darius Slay, my man, big play. Slay is gone. So there's some secondary things that they need to shore up. And then obviously defensive line was their big need. I think a lot of people were talking about going into the draft and they finally get to that in round four with Ty Robinson, a teammate of Cam Jurgens at Nebraska. He's. I don't know if you saw this, Trevor. He's a pet camel. Take a look at this tweet.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. I don't know, but he's pretty fucking pumped. On pet camel is. Where does he. Where does he keep that thing?

[Jason Kelsey]

Where does he keep it? I don't Know, I mean, it is barn. His farm. It's camel farm. It's got a camel farm.

[Travis Kelsey]

Maybe are camel suited for every climate.

[Jason Kelsey]

They're suited for Nebraska, apparently. There's actually.

[Travis Kelsey]

I mean, Omaha, Nebraska does have one of the finest zoos in state of America. All right.

[Jason Kelsey]

There's actually a camel. There's a little like petting zoo type farm thing that we took the girls to around our house one time and they had a camel. I think this guy spits. Camels are known for spitting. It's got a big spit in people's faces. Little Bill Romanowski action to him.

[Travis Kelsey]

That ain't right.

[Jason Kelsey]

I hope not. We gotta play a little bit more class. But same, same time, whatever you gotta do, get the job done. Ty, don't worry about it. And then the rest of the draft, we continue to fill out needs on the defensive side of the ball as well as short the offensive line. The offensive line was the position it felt like offensively that the Eagles wanted to continue to fill out the depth. I do think it's interesting they didn't pick an offensive line until round five with Drew Kendall. And that tells me that they're pretty confident with who they have rolling into this. They got Tyler Steen at right guard who has been competing for the starting job for at least one year. Really played a lot my last year too. He's got a lot of upside, especially if you can improve. The consistency has done a lot of good things with the Eagles. And then on top of that, signed Matt Pryor this offseason. They traded for Kenyon Green from Houston. So there's a lot of competition here. They drafted Drew Kendall, center, out of Boston College. They drafted a couple tackles late in, Miles Hinton and Cameron Williams. So there's a lot of competition that Stout's going to be able to work with in that room. I'm excited to see what these guys got. Man, I think when you get into these later rounds, it's kind of a crapshoot. You know, you're waiting to see everybody once you're outside of the first round, second round, especially the third round, all these guys have some type of weakness, have something that's holding them back, that's causing them to go outside of the top three routes, and you get to see what their strengths are, where they can improve at which guys are going to pan out. And it's just. It's fun to watch these guys compete and get better. And especially watching Jeff Stoutland work with them. I'm excited to see each and every One of them.

[Travis Kelsey]

You know it well. You guys also got a QB and Kyle McCord in the sixth round out of Syracuse. I actually remember watching this. This dude play a little bit in the acc, and it looks like he's a lifelong Eagles fan from up there in the New Jersey area.

[Jason Kelsey]

Who's not these days, am I right?

[Travis Kelsey]

Big fan base. Big fan base.

[Jason Kelsey]

I saw like a locker room video of him singing a rap song. Look like he's got some swag to him. Which, listen, we all.

[Travis Kelsey]

We already know sounds like. If you're a quarterback room guy.

[Jason Kelsey]

Exactly. If you're a quarterback and you got some swagger to you, you got a little Baker Mayfield to your ass or some like you. Some shit to you, that's a plus. That's a major plus.

[Travis Kelsey]

It's always a plus.

[Jason Kelsey]

A lot of times quarterbacks are very can. Can kind of be beaten to their own drum. It's a. It's a position that gets pandered to a lot. And a lot of the guys that are really good in college, you know, they're sometimes, you know, not as connected to their teammates as you need to be. And I was talking to Marcus Spears during the season, and he said something I think is just so true. If you want to be the quarterback, you want to be like one of the great ones, you got to be the guy that everybody is gravitated to, that everybody wants to talk to. You don't got to be everybody's friend, but you have to have this person, personality that is, like, magnetic and drives people and you're a focal point of the locker room. Those are what the great ones do, right? And if you're not going to be that guy, you can have all the talent in the world. You might have success because you're on great teams. But it's going to be hard, especially when times aren't going well, to be somebody that galvanizes people to play well around you. And you're going to have to do that to be one of the best.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

This is all saying, I like that. He acted like he had a gun and he was doing his cool thing in the locker room. I think it shows that he's got some swag to him, you know. Pew, pew, pew, pew. Biggest story out of the draft was obviously Shador Sanders sliding to the fifth round. Many people projected him to be a first round. Some people had him, like, top 10 picks. Right.

[Travis Kelsey]

And some of these mock drafts, he was. He was high up there.

[Jason Kelsey]

Now, well, he's selected by the Cleveland.

[Travis Kelsey]

Browns or Brownies I love this for Cleveland. God, I love this for Cleveland. I really do, man. The. The Browns fan deep down in my heart is just like, fuck, yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

You get a.

[Travis Kelsey]

You get a swag champ that works his ass off that has something to prove now, you know, not that he didn't before, but, you know, he's got that chip on his shoulder, I'm sure because of how much he's dropped and. Yeah, how could you not? Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

If you're at all a self confident person who believes in themselves and you're touted by a lot of people and you had the college career that he had, how could you not be upset that you fell out of. Fell this far? You know what I mean? Still should be happier in the NFL, but I mean, there's a lot of quarterbacks that are taken above him. There's a quarterback that the Browns selected above him who was the quarter Dylan Gabriel selected in the third round. A lot of anonymous reports prior to the draft that his team interviews went poorly. What do you think, Trav? Why do you think, Shador Sanders.

[Travis Kelsey]

I think whoever's a fucking anonymous person that's saying this should come out and say who they were and say what you chest. Like, what the is that about? Like, if you're gonna leak that type of. Be the one that says that. Yeah, it just didn't go well for us, you know, don't say that we're anonymous. You know, that's so lame. Like, Like, I don't know. I just feel like there's no validity to it. I'm not sure why he dropped. I'm not sure, you know, whether it was the interviews or whether it was stuff that they saw on film. What I saw in film, I thought he was a way higher pick, and I think that's all that should matter. And I mean, it doesn't seem like he's a terrible person. You know, it seems like he's just a motivated football player that is a part of a. A big football family, and him and his father have kind of taken over the NCAA football for the past three to four years. And whether that's something that NFL teams, quote, unquote, didn't want to deal with. I feel like this is going to be such a fresh start for him. And. And now it's. It's going to feel. I can see him working his ass off and becoming the starting quarterback in Cleveland at some point for sure.

[Jason Kelsey]

Personally, I think a lot of these interviews went poorly or the off the field antics between Deion and whatever media Stuff Shador's got going on. I think all that is getting blown way out of proportion as a factor for this. I think the reality is to me, and the way I look at it is it's hard to find a great quarterback in this league. If these teams really felt that Shador Sanders was a top first round talent, they would have picked him. That's what I think. I think if you, you mean to tell me if Michael Vick was. Had these same exact off field things happening or you know, if, if Mike, if he was Michael Vick's exact talent, he wouldn't have been taken to the first round? Of course he would have. Team said on draft day they don't think Shador Sanders potential warrants being drafted that high at the next level. Okay. Now, for whatever reason that is, I don't know why that is. I don't even barely watch your Sanders, but I ain't going to sit here and tell you that like there's too many players with character issues, with concerns every year coming out about criminal behavior, off field antics and other things that get drafted in the first round. And they get drafted in the first round because they are ballers and the NFL wants great players. The fact that he got drafted at 144 in the fifth round tells me that maybe these off field things mattered a little bit. But the bottom line is teams just do not think the potential of Shador Sanders panning out the next level is high enough to warrant an earlier pick. And teams get this wrong all the time. They got it wrong with Brock Purdy, they got it wrong with Tom Brady. This is not like an exact science. And I hope the guy, and I'm happy Shador Sanders is going to get an opportunity to go to Cleveland because clearly Cleveland wants to replace their starting quarterback. They picked two of them in the draft. So now you're going to get him, a competitive person motivated to prove a bunch of motherfuckers wrong up in Cleveland, Ohio on a team that clearly wants a new quarterback.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Otherwise they wouldn't have taken Dylan Gabriel in the third round and then picked another one in the fifth.

[Travis Kelsey]

And when it comes to the potential of a player, I think, you know, it's. I think the higher up you go is you're ready now, it might not be that the potential isn't there, that you will one day be ready.

[Jason Kelsey]

I think there's just more questions, there's more questions of what's the maximum potential? Where is this player at currently? There's a ton of opportunity and potential that the kid has. And there's been tons of players that have been drafted in the later rounds who teams have questions about that end up panning out. And a lot of that comes down to the intangibles. A lot of that comes down to, you know, does he just have this it factor? Everybody. And that's what everybody's kind of waiting to see. Like, at the end of the day, he's been successful. Everywhere he's been, he's had throwing accuracy. Like, none of that stuff teams can avoid accepting. But they will find all these other little things to say like, ah, you know, he doesn't have this, he doesn't have that. There's guys like Tim Tebow had a lot of stuff in college too, and he didn't pan out in the NFL. Like, they're looking to find these little things that cause them to have concern about why you might not pan out the next level. And all I'm saying is if this kid is the dog and the motivated individual, he's got a lot of attributes that. That lead themselves to being great at the next level.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

And he's in a situation now that you know he's going to get a chance to compete.

[Travis Kelsey]

All right, now.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, sure.

[Travis Kelsey]

Hit us up if you need any food recommendations out there. Cleveland big dog. Good luck. Good luck becoming the starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns, brother.

[Jason Kelsey]

I'm rooting for him. I fucking hope. I mean, talk about a great story.

[Travis Kelsey]

Are you kidding me? How can you not root for the guy right now?

[Jason Kelsey]

I hope he makes it and he brings his. All of the people that he brought to him to the meetings, to the contract that he signs after he leads him to some playoff game. You know what I mean? Like just. I hope this just happens in the biggest you to everybody around their question and that side of things. But anyways, fucking go. Travis Kelsey also famously slid from character concerns. Arguably was the best tight end on tape. So Shador, look no further. This could be you.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's Jason Kelsey. Character concerns to the six major character.

[Jason Kelsey]

Concerns and size concerns. What do you think about that Jason Kelsey guy?

[Travis Kelsey]

Well, he's a lunatic.

[Jason Kelsey]

I heard he's an loses his temper all the times. And on top of that, he's too small. Oh yeah, let's. He ran a good 40. Let's put him in the six round. Travis Kelsey. The funny thing about Trav is that like, there was nothing outside of the injuries. I guess you had two things. You had. You had had a few injuries and then you obviously had the marijuana Thing stemming from your sophomore year. But outside of that, like, I only.

[Travis Kelsey]

Remember people saying marijuana makes it sound so more intense. Why does that word sound so intense? Maybe it's just like.

[Jason Kelsey]

Is it just funny that. Do you ever stop the thing? You probably got drafted an entire round later than you should have. Maybe even. I mean, you could have. The tape that you had your senior year was incredible.

[Travis Kelsey]

So I had only had two years.

[Jason Kelsey]

At tight end when you really only had one year of playing fully healthy the whole year. I just think it's funny sometimes looking back and, like, there are all these concerns about Travis Kelsey and like, everybody who ever knew you knew you were a great kid. You just had like a mess up with, like, weed. Sorry. And then all of a sudden, like, teams aren't picking you for it. Like, think about that today. Like, Even back then, 75% NFL players are smoking weed. What the fuck are we talking about? We're going to, like, act like this is a death sentence.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, we are.

[Jason Kelsey]

Just blows my mind.

[Travis Kelsey]

No, it's crazy, man. Everybody's all good, though.

[Jason Kelsey]

Shout out to Big Red.

[Travis Kelsey]

Worked out perfect.

[Jason Kelsey]

I just want everybody that drops in the draft for, like, whatever character concerns or whatever. If it ever pans out, they should just do that exact same character concern. Like, you should have just walked into signing your second deal with a blunt in your hand, smoking it either side of the paper.

[Travis Kelsey]

So what do I. What do I say this?

[Jason Kelsey]

I'm not condoning smoking weed. But unless you sign a multimillion year deal and you want to say fuck you to all the people that doubted you because you did smoke weed, I'm.

[Travis Kelsey]

Just signing the wrong parts of the contract. Travis, you didn't sign a single line correctly.

[Jason Kelsey]

Travis, we said sign here. All right, well, either way, the draft is in the books. 2025 draft is officially over. Now we get to see if these guys are actually any good, and it's going to be a lot of fun.

[Travis Kelsey]

All right, I. I say we get out of this draft and toss it to the old Ben Affleck interview.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, Ben Affleck, let's go.

[Travis Kelsey]

Come on now.

[Jason Kelsey]

Alrighty. And now a moment brought to you by American Express.

[Travis Kelsey]

Jason, what's the most memorable meal you've ever had?

[Jason Kelsey]

Weenies and beans from dad.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's the most memorable.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, I think it's one that you've.

[Travis Kelsey]

Gone out to eat for. And use an Amex for uncrustables. O. Oh, nice. They're that memorable? They really are.

[Jason Kelsey]

With AMEX platinum, you get access to global dining Access by Resy when you add your platinum card to your Resi.

[Travis Kelsey]

Profile, you can experience some of the hottest restaurants with access to exclusive reservations and even be notified when hard to get reservations open up.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's the powerful backing by American Express.

[Travis Kelsey]

For full terms and to learn more, visit american express.com withmx Some people just.

[Jason Kelsey]

Know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first.

[Travis Kelsey]

Like you know to check the weather first before planning a picnic.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. Like you know to check if you put your phone on silent before entering a movie theater or a church.

[Travis Kelsey]

Like you know to check if you packed your sunglasses first before heading to the beach. That's a big one.

[Jason Kelsey]

Like you know to check if you've secured your coffee lid first before taking the first sip.

[Travis Kelsey]

Checking first is smart, so check all, stay first. But for a quote that could save.

[Jason Kelsey]

You hundreds, you're in good hands with Allstate. Savings vary subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate Fire and casualty insurance company in affiliates Northbrook, Illinois thanks to our sponsor, HBO's the Last of Us.

[Travis Kelsey]

HBO's biggest series the Last of Us returns with a new season on Max.

[Jason Kelsey]

Heck yeah. Five years after the events of the first season, Joel and Ellie are drawn into conflict with each other in a world even more dangerous than the one they left behind.

[Travis Kelsey]

CNN calls the Last of Us exquisite, fully realized and worthy of the hype.

[Jason Kelsey]

I do enjoy it. Based on the groundbreaking video game the Emmy Award winning HBO original series the Last of us premieres April 13th on max. You can listen to the official the Last of Us podcast wherever you get your podcasts. All righty. Thank you to our partner. DraftKings.

[E]

The Kentucky Derby is this Saturday, May 3rd. Jason, here is how we are going to make the official new Heights Kentucky Derby pick. We're going to pick blind based on only the name of the horse. So here's those horsies I'm gonna just pull up on screen.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, I'm looking at them.

[E]

What are you thinking? What are you feeling? What are the vibes?

[Jason Kelsey]

Man, there's some really good names.

[E]

Favorite name right off the jump right there. What sticks out to you?

[Jason Kelsey]

Probably Tiz Tastic. I don't even know what that means, but I like it. It's got a Z in it.

[E]

I like Render Judgment.

[Jason Kelsey]

Render Judgment.

[E]

Sounds like a horse. Flying Mohawk's not bad.

[Jason Kelsey]

Flying Mohawk's pretty good.

[E]

Chunk of gold would be win.

[Jason Kelsey]

What is the number 2 1?

[E]

Neo Equus.

[Jason Kelsey]

Neo Equus.

[E]

It sounds pretentious. I don't like it.

[Jason Kelsey]

I'll go with Citizen Bull.

[E]

You're gonna go with Citizen Bowl. Okay, that's. You know, you want to lock that in as the official New Heights.

[Jason Kelsey]

Sounds serious enough. It almost sounds like. Sounds like it's like Native American, which it probably isn't. There's something about it that I like. Okay.

[E]

All right, folks. Citizen Bull. That is the official Citizens.

[Jason Kelsey]

I like bulls.

[E]

Okay? You put them together and a horse and you've got a winner.

[Jason Kelsey]

You want to get into the action. We have teamed up with DraftKings to bring you the ultimate derby experience. That's right. DraftKings is turning up the thrill with their king of the track promotion.

[Ben Affleck]

Ooh, Ooh.

[Jason Kelsey]

Here's how to get in. Okay. Head to DraftKings Horse App. Opt in and bet $5 or more on a single horse to win the Kentucky Derby.

[E]

Citizen Bull. Citizen Bowl. You heard it here.

[Jason Kelsey]

If your pick crosses the finish line first, you'll win a share of a $1 million prize pool in addition to your wagers winnings. The reward is issued via click to claim. So saddle up this race season. Download DK Horse. That stands for DraftKings, but it looks like it's DK Horse. Use promo code New Heights and get in on the Derby excitement gambling problem.

[Brandon Borders]

Call 1-800-GAMBLER 18 and over, 21 and over in certain states to open owner. Access an advanced deposit wagering account and resident of state where DK horse is available. Eligibility restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Opt in and place a $5 plus straight win bet on the Derby first. Eligible bet only. Must win to share $1,000,000 cash reward via click to claim. Expires in 30 days. Third, see [e-mail] bet offers details.

[Travis Kelsey]

This is badass, dude.

[Ben Affleck]

It's awesome, man.

[Travis Kelsey]

It's so.

[Ben Affleck]

It's more fun now. Like, you can do stuff where because like, stuff like this hat. Like, people I listen to people people care about. It's really fun to, like, talk to somebody, you know, guys I admire and like.

[Travis Kelsey]

And I'm like, this is great.

[Ben Affleck]

It's much more interesting. No wonder why that's the. That people actually want to see instead of the kind of same recycled that. That, you know, just gets old.

[Travis Kelsey]

I hear you, man.

[Ben Affleck]

Thanks for having me. I appreciate you guys.

[Jason Kelsey]

Complete honor, man. This is incredible. We are chomping into bit, brother.

[Travis Kelsey]

Before we get started, I just got to let you know this is not a professional deal here. We're just gonna kick it. We're just gonna fucking kick it good, man.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah. Believe me, that's great.

[Travis Kelsey]

I Love it. Jason, do the honors, my brother.

[Jason Kelsey]

Our guest today is writer, director, actor, producer from Berkeley, California. He's got three times Golden Globes, two time BAFTAs, two time SAG Awards, and is a two time Academy Award winner. You know, from Goodwill hunting, Armageddon, Argo, Gone Girl, the Town, Justice League, even Dunkin Donuts, super bowl commercials. That's right. And now the accountant too. That's right, 92 percenters. Please welcome Mr. Ben Affleck.

[Ben Affleck]

What song? Best introduction ever.

[Jason Kelsey]

I even know half that. Of course.

[Ben Affleck]

Man, it's good to be here, man. It's really good to be here.

[Travis Kelsey]

The first accountant. Amazing. Absolutely amazing. Jason. Jason, you can go ahead and tell them about, about how you're connected in that world and, and everything, but I, I was blown away by the, by the messages sent by just how cool everything came together and you just felt how it ended that you had to do another one. Right. It was just so bad to thank.

[Ben Affleck]

First of all, thank you very much. I really like the first one and it kind of like it did well and then it, like, built up. It kind of came out right as streaming started growing and then over time, like, you know, more and more people watching stuff, and so I was really excited to do another one. I love the new version. I think it's even better than the first movie and hell yeah, I appreciate it, man. It's a lot of, A lot of fun and it's good to be here to talk about it.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, I know you've been told this before from the first one and the second one is, is very, very similar. You do such a great job of portraying somebody on the spectrum. You can tell that you guys put so much time and effort into doing that properly. Show showcasing tools for how people that are on the spectrum deal with too much stimulus going on. What are different traits? How do they communicate? What is, you know, what is the social interaction like the dating scene from this second movie right off the gate. Oh, my gosh.

[Travis Kelsey]

So good.

[Jason Kelsey]

But my wife works with kids on the spectrum. She was an instructional aid for a long time. We do a lot of stuff in the autism community. So I'd be remiss if I did not say how awesome you do and how much you guys have nailed it in both films. So well done.

[Ben Affleck]

Very much, man. I really. That's obviously the most important thing. It's like, look, this movie is, is fun, it's tense, it's serious, it's funny. But obviously kind of starts with like, when they're taking a role on, like, this. And you're. You're going to kind of talk about, like, people about whom in particular. There's been some, like, misunderstandings or judgments or whatever. Like, the goal is to. For authenticity and respect and empathy and understanding. And I. I did a lot of research for the first one, and I got. I got really lucky in my life in the years between, because I. I got to develop some very close relationships with. With people very much like my character. And I. That's where I got like. Like, just people that enriched my life. And I just got to know and. And then I was like, there's so much joy and humor and rye. Humor and wisdom and so much beauty in. In these. These folks. And. And it's like. It's a great. I really felt like that was the most important thing to. To bring that humanity up, because, yeah, sometimes if you have a more, like, neutral affect, people might just assume, okay, well, they're very serious, or there's not, you know, there's not as much going on, or they have the same feelings. And. And I have not found that at all to be true. It's just a slightly different way of seeing the world and approaching it. And I really wanted to bring that to this role, both because I thought it hadn't really been done in that way and because I just came to love, in effect, this character to the people that I knew. So it's like, by the time I got into this one, I was like, no, no, no. I really understand this guy. I kind of guessed and fooled around and researched before, and now I have it, and I wanted people to. To feel it, you know, and so thank you very much. And it means the world to me. And it's a very interesting experience because, like. Like, you're talking about, like, you know, dealing with social cues. Like, in some ways, it's just a slightly more elevated version of what we all kind of experience, but hide more, like, for sure things about people in the spectrum is like, they're honest with you.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, right.

[Ben Affleck]

We all talk about how we want honesty. Truth is people want it if it's what they want to hear. You know, somebody tells you the truth, they don't really want the truth.

[Travis Kelsey]

Truth.

[Ben Affleck]

There's something wonderful about somebody who. I'm just gonna tell you the truth about it. So don't ask something that you don't want.

[Jason Kelsey]

Exactly.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

That's like, we all kind of find, like, look, you know, the whole situation. Trying to date somebody and figure out, like, meet people, flirt with them, the kind of, like, cues and indications that people get like, I think a lot of people have a little bit of difficulty trying to figure that I say the right thing that come off stupid. This is just a more kind of in plain sight version of that. And what's beautiful about is like the vulnerability. Guys like trying to have a connection with his brother, really, that's the heart of it. He loves his brother, but drives him crazy, you know. And so it's about, how do I figure that out?

[Jason Kelsey]

You know?

[Ben Affleck]

And same with the relationships.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, yeah. And it's awesome seeing that side of it with like the social interaction and things where a lot of times people in the spectrum kind of struggle with. But then you also see the strengths of the character and obviously the ability to like process numbers and like make connections that nobody else is going to be able to do. So it's just so well done.

[Travis Kelsey]

Have you, have you ever embodied a character as much as this?

[Ben Affleck]

I mean, you've, I mean, not really.

[Jason Kelsey]

It's been a lot of characters.

[Travis Kelsey]

You've gathered so many. I mean you've, you've had so many unbelievable movies. But hearing you talk about this, it sounds like you really. Like, it was almost like a passion project this second time around.

[Ben Affleck]

It was, it was a very different thing the second time around because, just because of my life and what I. And the love I had developed and I was like. So I was like dying to get going, you know, I was like. I remember the director like sat down with me and he's like, someone talk. And I was like, no, no, this is what this scene's about. No, this is how he's feeling. No, he's not mad about that. You know, and I, I just started to know kind of much more deeply about the guy. And that's like, look, as a, as an actor, you try to do as much research as you can, but you just, it's like cheating almost. When you have, have real experience with something, you just bring a whole other level of stuff to it. And, and that's what happened with this movie. And, and it was fun. And also, honestly, John Bernthal is so genius. The guy. I love this guy. He's a good man. He's a great actor. He's like good father. He's just, he's a guy that. I became a very close friend of mine. I love the guy and getting to play the scenes with him and maybe that's analogous to like, you know, another great player on the team. Like, we have a super high level. It just changes everything where you're like oh, he already knows where I'm gonna be. He already can see where I'm. What I'm doing, and he's there.

[Jason Kelsey]

And you know what I mean?

[Ben Affleck]

It just makes you so much better. That was a joy every day.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, and is there. It feels like a lot of the movies you're in, there's this incorporation of brotherhood. Obviously that's a literal brother in this movie, but I mean, goodwill hunting, like, like the town. Like, there's like this, this idea of friendship and brotherhood. That's something that encompasses so well in a lot of the films you do. But Bernthal's phenomenal in this one as well.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, he. He is. He's great. And, and yeah, yeah, that's a theme that's like, really meaningful to me. And certainly, like, look, you know, when I was young and like a lot of young guys before you, you get older and have other kinds of responsibilities, get married, that kind of thing. Like, you're oftentimes your male friends are your whole world. Like your guys, your crew. That's a big deal. And, and it really means a lot to, particularly to men and to how we kind of grow into real men. And those guys that were around shape and dictate that. I mean, I assume on like, you know, football team, it's even more kind of profound. And so for me, it was like, I've always been interested in these, like, very close male friendships and how they can be. They can define us, how they can be hard when it becomes like a conflict or when. When part of what's going on with another guy like, you know, is. Is a problem. But like, for a lot of us, you know, particularly if you, whether or not you had like a dad who was as president around like that, the period of time where that's the. The center of your life and you're socializing yourself in that way. And. And so that was a big frame reference for me. And I think there's a lot. There's like, vulnerability in it and there's strength and it's. It's a big way that oftentimes I think, you know, kind of men learn to. To grow into who they're going to be. And so it's a theme that I, that I keep on coming back to. It's also very, you know, very powerful. It's like, especially when you have like, a group of guys like that, like when somebody is going to tell you the truth or Brandon, the way that things have been going and go, like, no, this is fucked up. Like, that can be Especially for men, those kinds of relationships, like, hugely powerful moment is the kind of things that we remember and oftentimes that, like, define us. In my experience.

[Travis Kelsey]

You ain't lying, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

There's been so many, like, iconic, like. Right. I don't even want to go. I hate listing, like, lines to guys who literally did this. But, like, the town, like, when you go in there, you're like, I'm not telling you where or what we're going for, why we're going there. I just need you to know it's a deal. We're going. We're going right now. And it's just like, every. Every guy that has any close friends can relate to that story where it's like, dude, I got my boys back. No matter what is the case, you don't need to explain it. You don't need to tell me.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, we're gonna do something really hard. You don't know what it is, and I need your help.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yes.

[Ben Affleck]

Okay. That's the only. You know. And I was trying to find. I remember I shot that movie. I was. I was like, I need really get a moment where we understand what kind of friendship he has with this guy so that when, you know, when. When it starts to, like, get a lot of tension applied to it, you understand how strong it is. Because it's an internal thing. The bond we feel. Right. The connection. And that. That was like, I. I was like, he's got to sit. You know, I wanted something kind of, you know, extreme for that. So you go like, oh, these guys will follow each other anywhere.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. You know, Absolutely.

[Ben Affleck]

Dealing with something really powerful, like, this is the most important relationship in both of their lives.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yep.

[Ben Affleck]

And that was, you know, I kind of lucked into that line. It was because kind of funny, you know, and extreme.

[Jason Kelsey]

But it's so damn good.

[Ben Affleck]

Represent, I think something a lot of, you know, you see it. You see it in sports, you see it in the military. You see, like, you see it represented in some way, like, hey, I'll go fight and die. Like, I remember I did a training thing for a movie with the army for two weeks, which, by the way, is the hardest experience in my life.

[Travis Kelsey]

Two weeks is a long time training, dude.

[Ben Affleck]

If I wasn't like, like, so embarrassed about this boot campus, I would have quit for sure. I'd be like.

[Travis Kelsey]

You'Re ringing the bell.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, totally. It was no joke. But I learned a lot of respect for it. And I remember the guys were like. One of the things these guys would say is, like, you don't die for a flag. You don't die for an idea. You only gotta die for your friend, your guy next to you. And that really stayed with me, like, oh, yeah, I get that. I get that. That's how these bonds get shaped and how you get these, like, teams and units to function this way. You know, it's very powerful.

[Jason Kelsey]

We have one last question for you before we move on. Could you actually file your own taxes? Do you file your own taxes?

[Travis Kelsey]

You go into a glass room and just start writing on the walls?

[Ben Affleck]

I mean, I. Yeah, I could file them. I might get arrested for tax evasion. I could do that. I'm tempted to do that. Write a lot of things down. It's not the right answer, though.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, gosh.

[Travis Kelsey]

So good, man. Check out accountant two in theaters right now. Ladies and gentlemen, 92 percenters. My dog Ben Affleck killed it. We gotta get into this sports fandom, though, man.

[E]

Ben, does the chair. Does the chair you're sitting in kind of lock, like, so it doesn't swivel?

[Ben Affleck]

Oh, you don't want me doing this type of thing.

[E]

We're kind of. You're moving kind of in and out of frame.

[Ben Affleck]

Oh, because it's a third. A third, A third. Yeah. Let me just try to sit still.

[Jason Kelsey]

Like, you know what I mean?

[Ben Affleck]

I could probably manage that. Instead of, like, lock me in the chair, you know what I mean? Hopefully I can manage that. I'll try to help you out.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ben Affleck]

If that's how you handle most of your guests, like, can we tie him down? This says a lot about what's going on. You strapped this guy to the chair or no?

[Jason Kelsey]

So you lock it in.

[Travis Kelsey]

Ah, man. All right, let's get to some sports fandom, man. Boston's sports fan for life, I'm assuming, man. You've. And it's all the sports up there, man. You got baseball, basketball, football, hockey, all of them. Boston's been spectacular, especially through the 90s, 2000s. And right now, this is a sports podcast, so let's jump into some NFL draft will happen by the time this airs. Do you have, like, a favorite in this draft? Are you that in tuned with, like, the guys coming out where I'm like.

[Ben Affleck]

I could tell a guy's combine numbers and you know what I mean?

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

Just hear about, like, who looks like I'm not that into. Especially kind of, like, when Tom left New England and that whole thing, I was like. I had to step back from. I was kind of like, I stopped. Stopped making sense to Me, and I kind of didn't know, but kind of like, star west NFL, like, more casually. I used to be more into, like. Like, who are we gonna get? Who's the draft pick? And now I kind of find myself a little conflicted. So I. I can't give you certainly any. Any great detail on the draft, though, although I bet you guys can. I'm curious to know, like, do you think there's a. There's, like, more insight that you have in terms of, like, upcoming players? Like, do you think there really is a skill and expertise to being, like, seeing how a guy will develop, or is everybody basically looking at the same numbers? Stat sheets, combine, you know, numbers and that kind of thing?

[Travis Kelsey]

There's. There's definitely a process, and some guys hit it out. Hit, like, they, like, hit home runs during the interview process. Like, if you can't show the teams that you're going to be, like, a great teammate, a great professional, like, you're just kind of like a guy that likes to just play football, like. But if you can go in there and show that you're going to be professional, you're going to have a. Like, a routine. You're going to be. You know, how important is that, really?

[Ben Affleck]

Like, I know you. They say that shit all the time. He's a good clubhouse guy, all that stuff, but, like, have you seen it make a real difference? And does it make a difference to somebody who's looking at a player ago? This guy's for real, you know, his commitment, all that stuff.

[Travis Kelsey]

I think the guys that we brought in. In Kansas City, you know, have been those guys, the guys that have had immediate success and found a way to get a second contract here. Those are the guys that they want. It's the build, the building. I've been here from the jump, like, 13 years ago, before Coach Reed even got here. They didn't have that kind of chemistry and kind of, like, culture in the building. It kind of took, like, five or six years for them to bring in the guys they wanted that had that professionalism and that, like, enjoyment in the building, coming into work every single day. And once we finally got that, it just. It's changed the trajectory of the program.

[Jason Kelsey]

And winning helps that, too. When you. The more success you have and the more wins, the more people genuinely buy. And, I mean, that's one of the things that Bill and Tom did so well for so long in New England. Like, nobody's going to come in there questioning how stuff's done when you got that type of success. So it affords you a great culture. Even with guys that might not. Maybe if they were at center, another situation, they wouldn't be the same type of guy. But I think for me, I started to look at guys coming out more because now that I'm done, I try to help out or that's my way to kind of stay involved. I never looked at a lot of college guys. It's hard, man, it's hard to evaluate and see guys and tell which guys are going to be the ones that pan out. As a player, you, you, you watch it and you, you can't help but think of guys that they remind you of and the way they move and the times and like the measurables. Those are all parameters that you kind of take into account. Like, you know, if there's a center with less than 32 inch arms, that's a red flag. If there's a tackle with less than 34 inch arms, you're like, there's a certain like minimum amount that you want. But then after that I like watching the tape and seeing like, how does the guy bend? How does, what is his quickness, what, what are his moves, what is, how does the offensive lineman use his hands? And then you're trying to think of like, you know, what is coachable and correctable. There's some of guys that you watch, you can almost tell that they're smart players by the angles that they take. Like, oh, this guy gets football. He knows where the ball's going and he's advanced. And other guys are just, they look like they're running in the middle of the field. Like, dude, do you have any idea like what's happening right now? Like you, it's really interesting to hear.

[Ben Affleck]

You guys talk about it because it actually does remind me because I thought it was completely different. And it reminds me a lot of, of directing movies actually, which seems weird maybe, but like, like, like when you said a. Yeah. Establishing some success goes a long way towards buying where like it was more difficult for me to convince people like, hey, come on down this road. Early on I know what I'm doing because I can see guys kind of like, you know. You know what I mean?

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

And you might be leading me down the wrong road, you know, and kind of get us all up. And I kind of like, I noticed that, that as a movie come out, people like it and stuff. It was, people came to me with more openness, you know, I don't know if Randy Moss would show up with the same openness that he showed up, but he started to get towards that. And the other thing is that that thing of, like, I really do believe that there's a kind of a flow state with act, with sports, all that stuff. And a part of it is that thing of, like, am I comfortable? Am I at ease? Do I feel like. Like I can kind of do my thing? It kind of basically that kind of buy in that you talked about, you know, in Kansas City, about creating a culture. Yeah, I do think that that makes a huge difference. And sometimes I see people look at me like I'm crazy if I'll say, like, you gotta have just a great cameraman, like, great dolly. You gotta have an environment where all the people there are kind of filmmakers and they understand what's important, and everybody feels like they're. They share a culture of valuing, like, certain things about what we're trying to do. And I. I guess it's interesting because I often thought those things were kind of cliches that guys said when they had to talk to the media or whatever.

[Jason Kelsey]

But.

[Ben Affleck]

But to hear it articulated by two professional guys who've done it actually made a lot more sense. I'm like, oh, this is the same thing. Like, you want people to share certain values, unrecognize what's important here, how we do this here. You know, I get that. And I wonder though, about, like, with football or, you know, even other sports, it seems to me that part of the trick is figuring out who's going to keep growing and develop, who's going to stay kind of static, you know what I mean?

[Jason Kelsey]

No question.

[Ben Affleck]

Any particular attributes that is it people who can, like. Who can tolerate, like, can't tolerate failure, but can get back up when they fail and get after it again? Is it, like. Is resilience the principal thing? Is it just like, some people are lucky and they just keep getting better? Like, have you found any common traits?

[Travis Kelsey]

I feel like you just. I think a lot of that is. Is dealt with when you have great culture, great coaches in hand, because then you got somebody that they respect, the person that's. That. That needs to, like, grow as a player. They have somebody that they respect that is challenging them. Like a guy like me, I had Coach Reed since the beginning of my career sitting there, just kind of hit me on the head, telling me, don't do this, don't do this. Keep doing that, keep doing that. And you. You slowly start to, like, find your own professionalism inside of the culture. Right? And then now you know how to add to that culture and you know, and you know how to, like, build that culture even. Even more once you start to figure out, you know, the rights and the wrongs and what you should and shouldn't be doing. But at the same time, Coach Reed has also grown a lot since. Since I've been there in terms of letting the players kind of be more of themselves off the field. He would have never let me do this podcast in the beginning of my career. Yeah, no, how about. No, how about you just focus on football? But, yeah, but it's. It's definitely. I feel like. I feel like a lot of that is you. You have to have that drive and that love for the game to want to keep getting better and, and that goes along with the guys that are coming into the building or, or guys in the draft. You gotta. You gotta see it on the field. You got to see them love to compete, and then you have to see them love to work for the. On their craft throughout. And that. That's kind of where it comes more of like a juggling matches. Like, you. You only know that word of mouth. You don't really know what they're doing behind the scenes.

[Ben Affleck]

So how much of a hardcore, like, coach you like, do you respond to? Because I like, like, I'll coach me up, man. I think, yeah, like, you want a guy who's like, get right in your face, like, what the is wrong with you?

[Jason Kelsey]

Don't you?

[Ben Affleck]

You know, or do you want somebody that's giving you that, like, hey, you know, you can get better here. Like, where do you think that sweet spot is for you?

[Jason Kelsey]

I can respond to either one of those. I think coaches should be genuinely who their personalities are. Like, if you're a fired up dude and you kind of. And that's kind of how you do it. And I can respond great to that. If you're, like, very reserved, but you're honest and articulate and you communicate really well, I can respond more to that. The big thing is, like, I want to be coached. Like, I want to be told when I'm doing things like, what can I do to get better? And I think to your point of, like, how do some guys improve? How do you know? Some guys master potential. Like, Kobe Bryant came and talked to the Eagles one time, and one of the things he said was like, one of his notes to all the young guys was, be curious, keep asking questions, keep trying to get better. Like this. There's some guys that come in with just like this insatiable appetite to become better, even though they might have downturns and they might have to, like, have that resiliency. And, like, we've all dealt with that in our careers, and it sucks in the moment, but you realize at the end, it makes you so much better because you learn from it and you learn, like, dude, why was I using my hands that way if I just would have done this this way? Like, and now I'm doing it, and it's leading to more success. And of course, there needs to be great coaching and potential there to begin with. But that trade of, like, just this. This insatiable desire to, like, be the best version of a football player you can be is, like, the biggest thing to me. And that's hard. Yeah, it's hard to pick of guys coming out. Like, who knows? Those are those intangibles where it's like, you kind of lean on coaches that, you know that know them. Like, there's. You talk to people in the. In the. In the. In the. In the universities that they're at, like, hey, I know this coach there, and I know he will be honest with me about this guy's temperament. But that's a. That's a tough one to gauge.

[Ben Affleck]

That's a hard thing too, because you're calling somebody up, they're in the spot where, like, what they're going to tell you is going to dictate somebody's future. It's like, you know, been experienced, or somebody calls you about a job recommendation for somebody, even if you're like, I don't know if he's. But you. It feels bad to say that. Like, what I used to do is, like, say good things about everybody because I felt bad. And then I have people come back to me, man, you told me this guy I know not doing you a service. You know what I mean? So you, like, had to learn that. That lesson. One of the things I see, like, in our line of work is the people who I really respect the most, I think are the best have this combination of the wanting to be great, which is a sense of like, yeah, I can be great, but also a certain humility that's like, I gotta keep looking at my mistakes.

[Travis Kelsey]

Dude, I said this so much better Self eval, baby.

[Jason Kelsey]

I have said this so much, much. Every great player that I know is the right amount of insecure. Like, they aren't happy with, like, who. It's not like they're not happy with you there, but they're like, I don't, like, I need to improve this. I don't like me. This version of me Here.

[Travis Kelsey]

I don't know if I've ever watched a game where I'm just like, nice. I'm satisfied. I've always watched the game like, you idiot.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Why didn't I just do this better?

[Travis Kelsey]

You suck.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

That's the biggest thing is like. Like, there's people who are cool with good enough and people who didn't make the choice.

[Jason Kelsey]

I think me.

[Ben Affleck]

It just drives me crazy.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

People like, oh, we're good. I'm like, it's not good.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

You know what I mean? It just makes me feel. And then when you get next to somebody else who also has that kind of demand, you know, and maybe it's coach or it's another person that you're working with, you kind of feel like, okay, this person's gonna go on this ride with me. And I do think it's just some person that some people are like, I checked the box. I did what I had to do. And there's a kind of like, in the great athletes that I've had a chance, opportunity to know. Like, sometimes I feel like it's a little bit of a curse because they know, they still don't feel happy. Like, they're always guys who feel like whatever it is isn't enough, and they kind of like, they don't seem like the most comfortable, happy people to me. So, like, I love the idea of being great and I admire. I wish I was like, this guy.

[Jason Kelsey]

What are you talking about? Fair enough. All right.

[Ben Affleck]

I wish I could do, though. That looks awesome, right? Like, anybody who watches sports, part of that's like, would be awesome if I could do that. You know what I mean? Like, that's at the root of it. You've done something. You know how hard it is. You see guys doing at that level of excellence. You really appreciate it. For me, I've, you know that that's the thrill of it. You know why you want to see the top level performance? Why people obsessed with winning?

[Travis Kelsey]

Because it's.

[Ben Affleck]

It. It represents who the very best are. And I think that goes to the root of our, like, evolutionary nature. Like, I'm gonna go hunt for your food. You want to. You're like, you're gonna find the best hunter because that's survival.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yes, absolutely.

[Ben Affleck]

Next to that person, you're talking about your tribe. It's your village. You know, it's a. It's tied to whether you live or die.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. And the great ones, they. They. They're like, unhappy with where they're at or a little bit insecure. With where they're at, but they also have the confidence that they're. That they can achieve it. You know, I mean, like, there's this, like, level of, like. Like, if you think you suck, but you don't think you have the confidence to get there, you're never going to make it. And if you think you're great, but you don't really know where you're at, you're going to get your ass kicked eventually.

[Ben Affleck]

Like, I'm a genius.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yes.

[Ben Affleck]

Okay. It's like, I don't know if you guys drive a motorcycle. When I was learning, I was doing this, like, motorcycle school, and they taught me this thing about you sit back.

[Travis Kelsey]

On the Harley or what, dude?

[Ben Affleck]

Mostly, like, race bikes. You know what I mean? Like.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

And it teach you, like, as you're in a turn, you have to look through the turn. In other words, you can't look at what's in front of you. You have to look where you're. Where you're gonna go. And if you actually. The way guys get into accidents a lot of time is they get into a turn, it's steeper than they thought. You get scared you're gonna hit the wall, so you look at the wall, and then you do hit.

[Jason Kelsey]

You know what I'm saying?

[Ben Affleck]

So to have that confidence to, like, look all the way through, even when you get halfway there and you're like. Like, they're like, the bike can do more than you think it can trust it and look all the way through it, there's always that moment, like, you say, of, like, I believe I can get there, even if it's really hard. You know what I mean?

[Jason Kelsey]

Absolutely.

[Ben Affleck]

That is, I think, a key part of it. And you probably experience or develop that belief because you've. You have to have done it a few times. Oh, I can get better. Or, like. And maybe that's rooted in talent or whatever, but there's definitely that. Those. I find it fascinating, those kind of intangibles and. And. And I think there's, you know, you gotta ask the guys who are great themselves, because I think those are people who really understand.

[Travis Kelsey]

I was gonna say, speaking of the great ones, getting back to some of this. Boston fandom, baby. The Celtics are. Are, you know, defending their title, obviously. Boston sports everywhere is amazing and has been amazing. Who's your favorite athlete? Boston athlete of all time.

[Ben Affleck]

Of all time. Of all time is hard, man. Like, I get, you know, Brady is definitely my. It has to. He'd have to be. I don't know how you do a list that he's not at the top of. But yeah, also when I was younger, you know, when I was a kid, like, that's when you're like, I mean, you. I was live or die.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Hell, yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

You know, crying if they lost the game.

[Jason Kelsey]

And that was like, Larry Bird, Larry legend.

[Ben Affleck]

And my son's always like, man, Larry Bird sucked. What are you talking about?

[Travis Kelsey]

Listen, I'm. I'm with it. Turning on some film back in, like, all these heyday, these old guys and looking at what the new basketball looks like, I'm like, I don't know if some of them could play. Larry could play. Larry could easily have made the transition into today's basketball.

[Ben Affleck]

For Boston, that was such a big deal because they were. It's like this basically, like a small town with a kind of a small town mindset. And for the Celtics to be. And that's, you know, going back, obviously, like Bill Russell days and all that. Like, the Celtics were the. The Boston's original entrance into, like, the national conversation that. You know what I mean? The Red Sox always lost. The Patriots were terrible. My father, like, basically was a football book. He had a bar and was Used to come up my first VCR washing machine. He was like, you know, quarterback in the NFL, Everybody betting on New England. When I grew up, they blacked the games out on tv.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

Because.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah. To get up to get people to go to the stadium.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yep.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah. Like, you can't watch it on TV if you don't go down there. So you couldn't even watch the games. It was that, like, it was a grind of an era for football, you know, but it was.

[Travis Kelsey]

But.

[Ben Affleck]

But so that's the era that I really, you know, when all these, like, childhood sports memories were kind of formed. And I love those Celtics, but I also love that, like, you know, that Celtics team that came out and won the championship out here, and obviously Tateman's team. Incredible.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, man.

[Ben Affleck]

You know, but Red Sox, 04. That was a big, big. Oh, they had one. You know what I mean? And that was huge. Especially after 03. They got. They got. They lost to New York in the playoffs, and it was humiliating. And that was a great team. And that was right at the time where I was still young enough. I was like, going out. I knew some of those guys, you know, hung out with them a little bit.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

Experience of being like, oh, this is what's really going on.

[Jason Kelsey]

Big poppies.

[Travis Kelsey]

There you go.

[Ben Affleck]

Yeah, yeah, they were great guys. And so it was like, oh, I know some of these guys, you know, it was always at a distance, and it's a great sports town. I mean, it's probably tough to play in because they'll, you know, they turn on you in a minute. There's always somebody, you know, complaining about a game if they lost. But I feel like the guys that really want to play and win are like, okay, you know, hold me to that standard. That's the standard I hold myself to. You know, at least that's what I tell myself.

[Travis Kelsey]

I don't know.

[Jason Kelsey]

There we go. Boston. Do they Live and Die by the Celtics? Like, what's their biggest fandom of all the major sports? If you get one championship for one organization, but the next three don't win for a decade, which one are you.

[Travis Kelsey]

Going, damn, that's a good one.

[Jason Kelsey]

Or which one would make Boston happiest?

[Ben Affleck]

That's tough. I mean, it's different. It's interesting because there are. Fans are. First of all, since the Patriots became so successful, they became, like, more than what, like, Dallas was in the 90s. Like, oh, they win and they are killing teams. It was like they got a little spoiled. Because the thing that I thought built character about New England was that, like, it felt like they always lost, you know, I mean, so if you were a fan, you were a real fan.

[Jason Kelsey]

Absolutely.

[Ben Affleck]

They'd have these heartbreaking losses. And you had, like, a few, like.

[Jason Kelsey]

Growing up a Browns fan, real scrappy.

[Ben Affleck]

Teams like Bobby Ward.

[Jason Kelsey]

Hell, yeah. Yeah.

[Ben Affleck]

And it was like that back when they played, you know, hockey with no helmets and just fought half the game.

[Jason Kelsey]

Like slap shots, missing all their teeth.

[Ben Affleck]

Exactly.

[Travis Kelsey]

The fucking best.

[Ben Affleck]

And so there's different parts of the city in the state and stuff that. That kind of go towards different. That like. Like, hockey fans are kind of a certain sort of group. And then football is kind of. I mean, the Red Sox were the original one, but I definitely. What's happened now, I think, in the last. In my lifetime, is that better for worse? I think this is true. I don't want to, like, you know, but baseball is not the national pastime anymore. It's the NFL, like, that has displaced it right now. I mean, you could. Don't have to look any further than the football team. Like, what do the teams sell for? What are the tv, the TV rights, the NFL now, everything. If you were a television network and you don't have the NFL, you don't even really have a tv, you're missing out because you have no reason to watch, you know, like, appointments, television. That's why they're spending all this money on. And you know, the college, college basketball and football contracts and stuff like sports have become more important in a way. And I think football, the NFL is I think without question, like America's sport and.

[Jason Kelsey]

Right.

[Ben Affleck]

And it's. And it. I mean, that basketball's huge too. I mean it is really like the.

[Travis Kelsey]

NBA, we were tied. We were trying to tell LeBron this during the Christmas games. We're like. The NFL took that over.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, right.

[Ben Affleck]

You know why, though? Because they have 82 games. Games.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's. Yeah, it's a big thing.

[Ben Affleck]

That's the other thing. It's like it become baseball. 162 games.

[Travis Kelsey]

It was the first time we had played on Christmas, so everybody was kind of excited to watch the NFL on Christmas.

[Jason Kelsey]

No, but I think you're right. I mean the, the NBA, NHL, Major League Baseball, they all came up when the, the way to make money was having more games because you increased ticket sales. And now all the money is who's tuning in. And if you want people to tune.

[Ben Affleck]

In, you can have sell no tickets to NFL if that makes this, you know, know it's meaningful. Because now baseball teams, you talk about like a lot of these baseball teams in local markets, even like Kansas City, you know, their rights that they're selling their games to the television networks has shrunk to like pretty surprisingly low numbers. So they're making all their money. That's it. That's that. I think, you know, it's part of. It's because the fan base is growing older for baseball and football and basketball, you know, really attract new and younger fans. And I think they've displaced it. And I think New England's no different. I think the Patriots probably became certainly with, you know, Tom and Bill and that they were the. The dominant sports on the Red Sox right there because they won the World Series 407 and stuff. But. And I don't know, I think this, I think basketball, I think basketball probably like a very close second.

[Travis Kelsey]

Did all my 92 percenters get their hands on cotton candy yet? That accelerators just doesn't miss. Every single flavor is arguably my favorite. And it's a good problem to have because they all get me accelerated. And whether it's in season out of season doesn't matter. You can always find me with one of these energy drinks in my hand.

[Jason Kelsey]

I have four little ones running and crawling around and I always need my accelerator. It's a perfect pick me up, but without the jitters to all of you Listeners, you can go get this delicious beverage that me and my brother are always drinking at Quick Trip, Giant Eagle, Hyvie and H E B.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's right. Go stock up on the clinically proven energy drink that uses 100 natural caffeine and accelerates your metabolism without the sugar crash. And of course, you can always get a case from Amazon.

[Jason Kelsey]

Thank you to our partner Reese's and their new peanut butter and jelly cups which we are really looking forward to.

[Travis Kelsey]

Trying out in strawberry and grape. Now for a limited time only, the iconic PB&J taste we all grew up with. Plus Reese's Cups, the greatest candy in the world. That's an instant must have right there.

[Jason Kelsey]

And they're only for a limited time. That's right. You gotta go now. Go fast because they're going fast. That's right. Reese's Peanut Butter and Jelly. A complete candy. No brainer.

[Travis Kelsey]

No brainer indeed. Reese's is always trying new combinations. Could this be the best one yet, Jason? I'm probably going to lean towards grape every time.

[Jason Kelsey]

It's interesting because I feel like strawberry. Strawberry pairs better with chocolate. Like chocolate covered strawberries is the thing. Chocolate covered grapes isn't so like peanut butter and jelly to me is always peanut butter and grape jelly. Strawberry might be something that would taste good with a Reese's Peanut butter Jelly cup. So get into the greatness of not just one, but two new Reese's peanut butter and jelly cups and strawberry and grape. Decide which one you love most or just fall in love with both of them.

[Travis Kelsey]

Get them while you can because they're here for a limited time only. Reese's new peanut butter and jelly cups. That's right. What's your jam found? Wherever candy is sold.

[Jason Kelsey]

Thank you to our partner, the farmer's dog.

[Travis Kelsey]

Hey, you know what time it is?

[Jason Kelsey]

Dog time.

[Travis Kelsey]

It's time for a fresh approach to dog food. And that's exactly where the farmer's dog comes in.

[Jason Kelsey]

These guys have created human grade dog food developed by board certified nutritionists. We're talking real meat and veggies, gently cooked to keep all those nutrients intact.

[Travis Kelsey]

Let's be honest, traditional pet food is super processed and who knows if you're serving the right amount, right?

[Jason Kelsey]

True.

[Travis Kelsey]

The farmer's dog has totally changed the game with their freshly made food.

[Jason Kelsey]

They handle all the guesswork by portioning your dog's meals based on the specific nutritional needs. Just grab a pre portion packed serve and boom. Your dog gets exactly what they need to stay healthy and happy.

[Travis Kelsey]

The best part, they deliver straight to your door and automatically send new food when you're running, running low. Plus they got real people available 24, 7 for customer support. Because sometimes you've got burning dog food questions at 2am in the morning.

[Jason Kelsey]

You get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food@the farmersdog.com newhites plus you get free shipping. Just go to the farmersdog.com newhighs to get 50% off. That's thefarmersdog.com newhites all right, well, we're going to get to this we got to ask section we're going to do here. We just kind of rapid fire questions at you. You are not. I mean you can, you don't have to answer. You can tell us to off. We kind of appreciate it. You famously refused to wear a Yankees hat in the movie Gone Girl. Is this still something that you refuse to do on screen? Like, will you. What is it going to take to get you.

[Ben Affleck]

I would have, I would not be interested in doing that like that. You know what I mean?

[Jason Kelsey]

Like, I love it.

[Ben Affleck]

I mean also, to be fair, I was, I was explaining to David, like, it just, it's going to become like, he's a big football fan. He's not as tuned as a baseball. Right. He's obsessed with football and madness and like the dude's the greatest Madden player, David Fincher that I've ever seen. Which is fucking weird to me. But I was like, okay, I guess.

[Travis Kelsey]

He'S great at everything.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's amazing.

[Ben Affleck]

He. I was like, it's going to be a distraction that you don't want like a side story about wearing a Yankees hat. Like, trust me. And he was, he kind of, I think he got, he was kind of with me.

[Travis Kelsey]

That is hilarious. Well, all right, well, if you were to wear maybe a Chiefs or Eagles hat, which one would you wear?

[Ben Affleck]

Don't put me in the spot like that. I will say, I have to say because my Billy Goldberg upstairs, who is my, the editor that I, along with Chris Ross that I've worked with my whole career and is probably responsible for a large part of my career, is the biggest Philadelphia fan. Yeah, baby.

[Travis Kelsey]

You does not ever to be at.

[Ben Affleck]

A Philly football game. It's. I have to say Philly has the. At least Boston, like, it's. For me. Philly has like the intense tradition where and like Bradley Cooper's a friend of mine, loves the Philly. So I'm like, I'd have to go with the, the Phillies on that.

[Jason Kelsey]

Hell yeah. Go Birds. Go Birds, baby.

[Ben Affleck]

Also The Philly fans will kick your ass if you know where, you know what I mean? In Kansas City, they're like, that's cool. You know what I mean?

[Travis Kelsey]

You got to kind of stick together.

[Jason Kelsey]

They're way out there in the middle of this the country. Like, don't going out here, have some good time.

[Travis Kelsey]

You want to see some intensity.

[Ben Affleck]

They're like a polite and midwestern, and they'll be nice to you. Chain stomp you.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, God. We heard that you once got to run routes with Tom Brady. All right, what was it like?

[Travis Kelsey]

What was that like?

[Jason Kelsey]

Did you. How many completions did we get? What were you running? What kind of routes were you running?

[Ben Affleck]

I won't lie to you. I don't know if they have a name. I'm sure I disgraced every receiver that's ever run around. But to this day, aside from the birth of my children, that was the greatest ever. I was like, dude, are you. He's like, I need someone to play Cats with. Happened to be on vacation at the same place with him. And he was like, you want to come down? And I was like, oh, this was so.

[Travis Kelsey]

This was legit. This was as legit as it gets.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's.

[Travis Kelsey]

You were helping Tom get ready for the season.

[Ben Affleck]

Like, I don't know how much I was helping him. I think he was like. He was like, I'm gonna blow this dude.

[Jason Kelsey]

Work.

[Ben Affleck]

And we literally got down there and first he's like, you know, I'm gonna. He's like, okay, go out here, turn around. And I'm running fast as I can. Turn around. I look at. Look, he's waiting 45 minutes, you know, guns to me. I'm like, I caught it. Cuz I was afraid he breaking my nose more than anything else. And then after a few of those, he's like, all right, we'll put some hair on him. I was like, no, no, no, no. It's already. It's already playing fast.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, that was what I was about to ask you. That's what I was about to ask you. Did he actually spin it like he ripped you a couple of home him.

[Ben Affleck]

Now, you know what I found was that like, in a way, you catch it out of self defense. I didn't even think I was. I was, you know, and I found myself with the football just out of like, yes, fight or flight reflexes. But the greatest moment of that experience, like after we played, you know, he had me running around. I'm. You know, he stole me the ball and. And it was amazing, right? It Was like a. Like, I felt like a 10 year old kid. He's like, okay, come here. And I get to him and he's like, it's the Super bowl, fourth quarter. We have 23 seconds. It's fourth and 18.

[Jason Kelsey]

I was.

[Travis Kelsey]

Tom knows what he's doing, man.

[Ben Affleck]

He's like, just run, dude.

[Jason Kelsey]

This is. This is why he's the best. This is why he's the best. This is the mindset, dude.

[Ben Affleck]

It was amazing, dude. He goes and just run straight. Don't turn around. And I was like, he's like, and I'm gonna get you the ball in the end zone. I was like, don't turn around. He was like, don't look back. So I, I'm like, okay. And I believe it. Like, he told me. I was like, I'm in the super bowl now. Nobody wants to speak with. So he's like, look, look. Calls it out. I. You know, like it was. And I start running. I don't look back. I'm sure to him it seemed like the.

[Travis Kelsey]

Just.

[Ben Affleck]

He's like, I've never seen somebody run in slow motion before.

[Travis Kelsey]

Like to me, just going as fast.

[Ben Affleck]

As you can go. And I keep. I'm like wondering when's this ball going to show up? And I look, I just feel it like right out in front of me. And it was a little far for me. I think he was like. He probably adjusted back at the center. You know, I reach out and I have to go. All I have to extend. I catch it, I turn around like I won. It was incredible. I called everybody I knew for two days. I was on the so called me. And I went down to God's building. I think they thought I was lying to him. So they got. But it was like the nicest thing anyone's ever done for me. And I lived a full life of dreams right in that whatever it was hour of playing Cash.

[Jason Kelsey]

You had a real life. You had a real life sandlot moment. You were smalls dude.

[Travis Kelsey]

Ready to go.

[Ben Affleck]

Just put that glove up there, boy. So good.

[Travis Kelsey]

All right.

[Ben Affleck]

I'm gonna get it to you in the end zone. I mean. And it's like when it felt like this is exactly what he looks like when it really is the super bowl, you know what I mean? Like, and he's one of those guys going back to the thing I like. I've often wondered, because he seems so relaxed, like oddly relaxed. I've often wondered if that's part of it, like just not, you know. So when everyone else has that anxiety because it's, you know, whatever. 20 seconds to go in the fourth quarter. If you can have that, like, calm and that awareness, I think it's a huge, huge advantage. There's a story, I don't know if it's true about Joe Montana, that the super bowl threw the cash to White Clark. And the play before that, he got into the huddle and he was looking into the stands and they, and the team came back and they were like, what? He goes in the podcast player. Is that John Candy? No, Candy. And they just like, turn back around. But he was like, looking over to be like, oh, that's John Candy. All right, it.

[Jason Kelsey]

Let's go. Like, you know what I mean?

[Ben Affleck]

Like, he was, he was just casual and I feel like that always made sense.

[Travis Kelsey]

If you've ever met Joe Montana, that's a smooth son of a buck right there. He's a cool cat, man. He's. He's a laid back dude.

[Ben Affleck]

I believe it.

[Travis Kelsey]

Are you. Are you sick and tired of having to look at Matt Damon's abs?

[Ben Affleck]

Damn. Every I to what's in the premiere, every interviewer, like, they were giving me something like that. They found the secret of life. Like whips out of 8 by 10 of Matt with his app. Like, this dude is out there. One time he got in shape, worked out. One time he's out there flexing his nuts off with his, you know, but, you know, listen, it looks good. It ain't easy. Would you touch 50? But you boys will see.

[Travis Kelsey]

I hear you, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

He's calling everybody. Tell him where he's going. I'm going to be on this beach at this time. So good, dude.

[Travis Kelsey]

You guys, you guys lived together in Boston your first year or growing up, I should say. I say first year, but growing.

[Ben Affleck]

We were friends in the same box. We lived together in la. We've been friends since we're little kids.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, dude, that's so cool. Me and, me and Jason were living together at Cincinnati and obviously we grew up together. I under. I know what it's like to, like, hang out with your homies and, like, be in the same house as you. Like, how cool were you guys just throwing cool ass ideas back and forth to each other?

[Ben Affleck]

Like, I don't know how cool they were, you know, I don't know. We were just like, dumb enough to think it would work out for us, you know, that's that kind of like, belief that, like. Yeah, that's part of the gift of being young is you don't really see that, like, this could end bad. It might not work. We always kind of had a certain like, hey, we go out there, I don't know, it was a combination of not knowing anyone who had done it or it seemed very far away and, and also going like, yeah, fuck it, we're gonna move out to LA and this, we're gonna try this thing and we're gonna go after it. But I, I, I was, I'm curious because for me, I found that I see a lot of other people who've had success and you know, the kind of sort of light turns on you and all of a sudden it's a very different experience day to day, and people act different, different and is weird. Especially like I, you know, when people this, that first of the beginning of that transition. And I really credit, you know, my ability to kind of stay sane to, to having like my best friend who was doing it too, and being able to be like, is this bananas or what, man? Like, what the are you talking about? Like, why are you acting like that? Or whatever it is? You know, because every other people want to might want to kiss your ass or whatever it is. I wonder if you have the same thing. You guys, like, you know, NFL guys, and you're like, but, you know, you're not the only one in your town that, you know that. That's that one kid who becomes a big star and everyone, you know, like, you had each other did that. Yeah, was that.

[Travis Kelsey]

I was, I was lucky. I just got to follow this guy's footsteps. I was just doing whatever the fuck he did. And I was, I was benefiting from the guy already paving the way for me. But it was definitely cool once we got to the league, how we could bounce things off of each other, especially because we were in two different, different cities, two different buildings, and it's like, I don't know. I, we also had Coach Reed, he got drafted by Coach Reed in Philly than I did in Kansas City. So it was really me just like confirming that what I was doing was the right thing to do to Jason. Jason was kind of just you know, figuring it out as he went.

[Ben Affleck]

Did you think that because he did it made it easier for you because.

[Travis Kelsey]

You were like, oh, if my brother can do 1000%. Jason came in and was like one of the most professional guys in Philly. I've heard the story stories through everybody in that building because half of them came to Kansas City and they were like, man, if you just lock in and do what your brother did, you'll be just fine.

[Ben Affleck]

I think that's a big deal, man.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, no. Are you kidding me? Guys are. But I just gotta follow his footsteps.

[Jason Kelsey]

Stop. All right? I, I. But I. I really do think you're onto something with, like, you and Matt going through it together and, like, Travis and I. And, like, you know, as, you know, as you have more success, there's more people that come around you that don't really know you, and they just want to, like, tell you how great you are.

[Ben Affleck]

And because you represent, like, a job or some status to somebody or whatever it is, so they're gonna tune into that because they want it, you know.

[Jason Kelsey]

Or they see you on camera, or they see Travis and I doing this or on. On tv, and they think they know us. But, like, to have these relationships that predate all of that other stuff is, like, it's hard to, like, replicate that with, like, whether it's friends, family members, and you end up really holding on to those, and they. And they end up meaning a lot more. And it helps you kind of keep your sense of self, for sure. Undoubtedly.

[Ben Affleck]

Absolutely.

[Jason Kelsey]

Man.

[Travis Kelsey]

It's.

[Ben Affleck]

That is true. Words were never spoken. Like, it's very hard to have the same quality relationship, in a way, with somebody and trust, like, because it's a big difference. Like, the people that I grew up with, who their relationship. I know those relationships were based on me and that person. They didn't have to do with anything else. And that. That's never a thing that you can take for granted after that point. Which isn't to say I think everybody's trying to, but it changes things. And. And part of it, maybe it makes us wonder more, like, okay, why does this person, you know, want to be? Like, I remember I had the best thing that ever happened to me was I got successful, and then I hit a really, like, bad patch. Like, I had a bunch of movies that didn't work. I was in a bunch of tabloids, and I was like. It was always. I thought, okay, this may be over for me. And what happened was a lot of that went away, and I was like, oh, I'm not that funny. I don't have that many friends, actually. Like, you know, it was a whole. I used to say this, like, this, and people would laugh. Like, the world changed. I could feel I didn't represent the same thing to people. And I. I recalibrated and was like, okay, I get it. These relationships are largely what they are. You know, they're not really authentically based on the, you know, me and this person, and that's okay. You don't need that, that many friends. You just need a few really good friends. And not every relationship is going to be really authentic. Close friendships. Some things are just like work relationships or whatever it may be. Yeah, that helped me kind of get it, you know, and it was a really, it was just a really helpful moment. And I think sometimes people like in sports, you look at you tend to have this, this career trajectory like come in, it goes great, everything's amazing. And like the last couple years, okay, all right, I'm going to retire. And then after that, like some guys I come across, you know, more. Maybe you can tell me if this true or not. Like have a hard time adjusting after that because they're like, wait a second. You know, this life is so different now.

[Jason Kelsey]

100%.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's legit. A lot of guys, you got to try and find a, a career after sports while you're still doing it, man. But speaking of work relationships, we got some Dunkin Donuts.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, baby.

[Travis Kelsey]

God, dude, that's. The super bowl commercial was legendary, dude.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yes.

[Ben Affleck]

Thanks, dude.

[Travis Kelsey]

So good. That thick ass Boston accent, that was gold. If I go to Duncan and say I want the Aflac, what's the order?

[Ben Affleck]

But get the out of here. No, that my order is the iced coffee. I like the chocolate glazed donut. But you know, I don't think I memorialized it as my order. You know what I mean? We could, you know, but it was fun. It was like nice thing about that with Duncan was like, they let us and we are company, our second. He became the ad agency and started building this commercial stuff. And now we kind of broadened it out to a couple of other brands as well. And they kind of were like, okay, you know, because my belief is like, you want to get the connection with whatever the culture or the person is. Like this is in theory not having to be like. But let them have a voice in what they're creating. So like let them participate. So. So, you know, when we had like Ice Spice or Kristen Wiig or, or Tom Brady, like only come at them with a script and lots of us, like, you know what your fans want to see, you know, what people connect to about you. Like bring that to this thing and people are so much more comfortable and better because they like you don't lock people into some stupid line and posing with the product and it just. And now people know that is just artificial and doesn't work, you know, so.

[Jason Kelsey]

Could not agree more.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's awesome, man.

[Ben Affleck]

Excuse for them letting us around down and act stupid.

[Jason Kelsey]

No but you're right, it comes across so much more authentic. And like, even like, you know, when, when we've done advertisements, when, when you as the person behind it and the face a part of it, when you're actually contributing to, like what the thing ends up being, it feels more real to you. So of course it's going to feel more real to the people watching it. So hell yeah, that makes a lot.

[Ben Affleck]

It's your taste, like, that's important. Athletes, whatever it is like your Persona, yourself, like, that's the thing that, that means something. People, they're connected to you in that way. And like, you kind of want to be like if you're not consistent with it because brand is trying to voice something on you people vibe. But they're like, that's not why I like this, this guy or this woman. I don't. You know what I mean? And so it, it doesn't even work. But it's fun when you, when you get right and you have a good time.

[Jason Kelsey]

Hell yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah. Well, it killed it. And I'm not gonna lie, I'm smacking some every time they got those new blueberry ones. Game changer.

[Jason Kelsey]

Kylie had a box. Kylie had a box from the other week. And I was like, you know what? I've been on this diet. I've been trying to slim down, but I couldn't resist. I reached, I took a bite.

[Travis Kelsey]

They make you feel good about it.

[Jason Kelsey]

I took a bite. I didn't even know that blueberry existed. I was like, what the. What the is this?

[Ben Affleck]

It's funny, I just went the other day and I was like, damn, this is good. I thought I knew all the.

[Travis Kelsey]

That was, you know, but they got that figured out.

[Ben Affleck]

New discovery. Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

They'll probably be like, it's been there for years and I'm just a dumb ass that hasn't had it. But anyway.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly.

[Ben Affleck]

Me too. They're like, you make commercials?

[Jason Kelsey]

Didn't know about the blueberry. Hey, Ben, thank you so much for joining us, man. This has been awesome. I know you got stuff to do.

[Ben Affleck]

It's a pleasure, man. I'm such a big fan. You guys are the best. And, and it's really a pleasure on honor. So much fun. Like, I. I can't tell you how much I'd rather be like, hanging out, talking with you guys than, you know, kind of just doing the same old thing.

[Travis Kelsey]

This is great, dude.

[Jason Kelsey]

Awesome, man. Thank you so much.

[Travis Kelsey]

Let's do it again. When you, when you have another one.

[Jason Kelsey]

That'S hit, we Got so many more questions. Even have to do it on camera.

[Travis Kelsey]

It was just chopping it up with you, man.

[Ben Affleck]

I give better answers off camera.

[Jason Kelsey]

Awesome.

[Travis Kelsey]

You're the man, dog. Thanks, Ben Affleck.

[Jason Kelsey]

Thank you.

[Ben Affleck]

Thank you. I'm out.

[Travis Kelsey]

Later, Ben Affleck. Dude, what a legend, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

You ain't lying. I mean, I've always been a fan of him as an actor, but, you know, you get to talk to the guy, you get to see how driven he is. You can tell, just talk and do him. How much he cares about just everything he does. How much. He's always trying to figure out how other people have success. It was just an all time combo.

[Travis Kelsey]

And his mind works so much faster than mine. Yeah, his neurons are.

[Jason Kelsey]

No, they're fire. They're firing quick.

[Travis Kelsey]

Dude is. He's a special human being, man. That was awesome.

[Jason Kelsey]

Make sure you go check out Captain two. It's pretty damn good movie. You'll enjoy it.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yes, you will. All right, now let's get out of the house, man. We haven't hit this segment in a while because Jason just had his fourth child. This is the first time he. He got out of the house in. In a long time.

[Jason Kelsey]

This is all true.

[Travis Kelsey]

Jason, how was it? What'd you do, Travis?

[Jason Kelsey]

I was with you. What are you talking about? We both went to.

[Travis Kelsey]

We're talking about that. Oh, yeah. Well, we. We headed over to one of my favorite golf tournaments of all time at the Justin Timberlake 8am Golf tournament in Viva Las Vegas, Dude. Where I just can't seem to lose. I just never lose in Vegas, man. There's something about Las Vegas just. It's just, you know, it's kind of where I feel at home.

[Jason Kelsey]

It's been good to you.

[Travis Kelsey]

Especially at the wind. Especially at the wind. More so at the wind than anywhere else. And oh, my gosh, look at those jugs. You gotta show that.

[Jason Kelsey]

Wow. I didn't know. I didn't know that's what it looked like.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, my God. Oh.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh. It's a solid, solid SE cup Ds. Maybe this is my nipples. Were my nipples hard? Oh, my God. Why are my nipples hard, dude?

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, my goodness. Oh, my gosh. Dude, those are your nips.

[Jason Kelsey]

In fairness, I think it was a little cold. Those are just the thermostats working. It was a little breezy that day. That's why I said, Tina got the sweater on, dude.

[Travis Kelsey]

You might need to go get some tit reduction, dude.

[Jason Kelsey]

No, no, no. I'm a fan of him. I've always.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, man. Dude, that is hilarious.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's aggressive.

[Travis Kelsey]

God damn. That's just made my day. What was your favorite part of the weekend, Jason?

[Jason Kelsey]

My favorite part of the weekend? I don't know. I mean, getting to hang out my brother, a bunch of awesome people. No, it's. It was a fun event. I mean, listen, you're at the Win in Las Vegas and at like this unbelievable golf course, playing with a bunch of the coolest people on the planet. It was freaking awesome. And, you know, got to meet Justin Timberlake, a million other people that were there to all. Yeah. Be together and have a good time. And it was just. It was done right. I always love going to these golf outings where 8am in particular for this outing. The people at the Tahoe outing, they just do such a great job at organizing it, getting everything set up. Oh, yeah, it was just really well run combined with great people. So, yeah, I had a blast, dude.

[Travis Kelsey]

So much fun. You got thrown into a group with. With two of my favorite human beings on the face of this earth, Chandler Parsons and Blake Griffin. And I was with another one of my favorite people on this earth, Andrew Santino. And I'm not going to lie, man, Santino was. He's a stick.

[Jason Kelsey]

He's good.

[Travis Kelsey]

I haven't seen him play this good in a while, man. There was, There was a. There was a few shots where he was just absolutely dialed in.

[Jason Kelsey]

He was sinking putts.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, it's fun to watch, dude.

[Jason Kelsey]

He was sinking putts. I was not sinking putts. Me, Blake and Chandler had great vibes. I was really struggling. My first putt, I think was like a 10 foot putt that I putt legitimately 5ft to the point that everyone audibly laughed behind me. You got like, somebody legitimately said, that can't be serious. It was like it was straight from Happy Gilmore. Like, I hit it and I was like, oh, no, that thing is going nowhere.

[Travis Kelsey]

And it doesn't help it out that you have that putter.

[Jason Kelsey]

What are you talking about? It's a Scotty Cameron freaking like, it's the best putter on the planet. I'm not trying to hear this.

[Travis Kelsey]

That putter is from the beginning of golf, okay?

[Jason Kelsey]

That's how you know it's good, it's made, it's survived for a very long time. It's a great putter.

[Travis Kelsey]

It survived. Survived. Why? Just because nobody lost it?

[Jason Kelsey]

No. People have been playing it and it's a putter that's stood the test of time. It's classic.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah. It'll only get you halfway to the hole though.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, that's if you're a jamoke like myself and you haven't ever. You didn't practice any putts before the hook. You got around.

[Travis Kelsey]

There you go. One of my favorite experiences from the weekend is always the karaoke night. They always do a great job of getting everybody to go up on stage stage and sing a great tune and. And we all know your karaoke song.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. We didn't execute it as well as I thought we were going to.

[Travis Kelsey]

Turn around.

[Jason Kelsey]

It was tough on stage hearing the audio and the words weren't synced up as perfectly as I thought. This is after also after a full day of garage beer on the course. So it was not the best performance, but it was an A for effort and entertainment value.

[Travis Kelsey]

Listen, the first like probably like 10 to 15, maybe even 20 seconds was you guys were far the most entertaining crew up there. And then out of nowhere it was just like a scream off.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Of you and the other two just absolutely trying to like get the wheels back on the track.

[Jason Kelsey]

We tried.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah. Leave. That was fun. Absolutely hilarious. Shout out to jt. Shout out to Jessica. Shout out to Everybody over at 8am and the win. It's one of my favorites, if not my favorite casino out there. Man. They always do it right. And and and hook it up during the 8am and that is. That's one of my favorite golf courses out there.

[Jason Kelsey]

Let's get on to one of our favorite segments each week and that is no dumb questions. Notam questions is brought to you by perplexity. For those of you that don't know, that is an AI search engine we will use occasionally to help us answer some of these no dumb questions or questions that arise from the no dumb questions or any type of questions we have during the show. The entire Internet has been debating a nodam question and we have been asked to weigh in from dfgh K L n P Q U V W X Y guarantee a bot. This is a bot at Brandon Borders at Jake Chadsky. I'm a need Jason Kelce and Travis's opinion on this. He quote tweeted, I think 100 guys could beat one gorilla. Everybody just got to be dedicated to the.

[Travis Kelsey]

Shout out to dream chasing Mike.

[Jason Kelsey]

We got to answer some questions first. Are we allowed to use tools Because I could beat a gorilla by myself. I got the biggest gun. Be over real, real quick. Right. So I think we're talking about hand to hand cop head.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm guessing. Yeah. I think we're just talking gorilla.

[Jason Kelsey]

Don't scare me if I got a big ass Magnum. Whatever.

[Travis Kelsey]

But what are we talking here exactly? Do we, do we, are we talking like what's a win? Is a win like death?

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, you're fighting to the death. That's what a win is. When you're fighting a guerrilla gorilla, how do you, how do you kill it?

[Travis Kelsey]

That's what I'm saying, gorilla.

[Jason Kelsey]

You're gonna need a tool. You can't kill a gorilla with your hands.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh yeah. I don't know.

[Jason Kelsey]

Choke it out.

[Travis Kelsey]

I mean, yeah, that's gonna be a tough sell right there.

[Jason Kelsey]

I think 100 guys could do it because the gorilla would get tired. But he's gonna go through about 98 of them.

[Travis Kelsey]

He's gonna go, somebody's getting up.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

And I don't know if I wanted. That's why you say it. And I think 100 guys would be one gorilla. Everybody just got to be dedicated to the shit. The shit is. You're going to get fucked up if you're one of the first people to go at this gorilla.

[Jason Kelsey]

I think one of the reasons these questions are terrible is because humans don't fight hand to hand even. I mean you go back to looking at, you know, people back in the day, you're, you, everybody's using tools. I'm going to pick up a big ass rock. I'm not going to go fight this gorilla with my hands. I'm going to let you distract him. I'm going to stand in the tree and then when he's not looking, I'm going to drop a boulder on his, his head. We're not fighting fair. That's how human beings fight. Right? We're smart. If you want to survive, that's how.

[Travis Kelsey]

Now that's dedicated to the shits.

[Jason Kelsey]

I'm gonna sharpen a stick and then poke that big and not have to go and fight it with my hands. In which case it's going to be a lot less than 100 guys. Might be one guy if you got the right tool. But yeah, if you try and go fight a gorilla with your bare hands, you will die.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm not with that.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, I mean it's too strong. It's too powerful. I don't even know how you would kill it. How would you kill a gorilla, dude?

[Travis Kelsey]

That. What? I don't know. No, you're not choking it out.

[Jason Kelsey]

You like try and hold it down. I, I just would like like 20 people jump on it just to hold, pin it down. I don't, but even that, I don't think that's going to work?

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, I think they're 20 strong. They're 20 times stronger than us. That's why it's a dumb question. All righty.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's no dumb questions. Brought to you by Perplexity. That wraps up another episode of New Heights. Thank you to Ben Affleck for joining us. Make sure you're subscribed on YouTube to the new Heights channel and follow New Heights on the wondery app or wherever you podcast. Special announcement. We will be back next week with a special Mother's Day episode. Yeah, I wonder who's gonna be. Who's gonna be a part of that one?

[Travis Kelsey]

It's gonna be mommy. Once again, new Heights of Wonder show produced by Wave sports and entertainment and brought to you by Duncan. Oh, these little munchkins.

[Jason Kelsey]

Where to put them?

[Travis Kelsey]

Follow us on all social media at New high show for with one for fun clips throughout the week. And thanks to our production and crew, you guys are going to have your hands full this time. To the 92 percenters, please keep tuning in. I. We'll get good at this one day.

[E]

When I'm confused about a name, I just try to go as fast as possible.

[Jason Kelsey]

I think everybody in their right mind says aflac.

[E]

Jake, put a poll up. Put a poll up. Jake, just take it to the audience. Put a poll up.

[Jason Kelsey]

I've never heard one person in ordinary conversation for you.

[E]

How often does.

[Jason Kelsey]

Not often. Not often. But it's. It's always been Affleck. Never been Affleck.

[E]

Is that just like the Philly getting in there?

[Jason Kelsey]

No, it's just.

[E]

You're overdoing it.

[Travis Kelsey]

You're overdoing it with.

[E]

You're overdoing it. You're overdoing it.

[Travis Kelsey]

Ben Affleck.

[Jason Kelsey]

You're either saying Affleck or Affleck. Affleck is.

[E]

Affleck. You're saying like affect.

[Jason Kelsey]

No, I'm not. I'm saying it's either Affleck or Affleck.

[E]

You added a T on one of those. I swear to God, I heard it.

[Jason Kelsey]

I definitely had T sometimes. And that's for sure wrong. Listen, if it wasn't for football. Football. I'd be just like Ben Affleck and goodwill hunting. You know what I mean? I'd be just working the docks.

[Travis Kelsey]

What docs.

[Jason Kelsey]

Docs? Is it construction?

[Travis Kelsey]

What docs? What docs are you.

[Jason Kelsey]

Been a while since I've seen that movie.

[Travis Kelsey]

What are you, Danny Green, working the docks at Lake Erie.

[Jason Kelsey]

It's a major shipping hub.

[Travis Kelsey]

Travis, follow New Heights on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcast. You can listen to new heights early and ad free, plus enjoy exclusive episodes of the show by joining Wondry plus in the Wonder App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify today.

[Jason Kelsey]

Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey.

[Brandon Borders]

You know those creepy stories that give you goosebumps? The ones that make you really question what's real? Well, what if I told you that some of the strangest, darkest and most mysterious stories are not found in haunted houses or abandoned forests, but instead in hospital rooms and doctor's offices? Hi, I'm Mr. Ballin, the host of Mr. Balin's Medical Mysteries and each week on my podcast you can expect to hear stories about bizarre illnesses no one can explain, miraculous recoveries that shouldn't have happened, and cases so baffling they stumped even the best doctors. So if you crave totally true and thoroughly twisted horror stories and mysteries, Mr. Ballin's medical mysteries should be your new go to weekly show. Listen to Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery App or on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.