Travis' Return, Mama Kelce Renovates & Conan O’Brien on Oscars Prep, Favorite Jokes & More | EP 182

Summary

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce – Episode 182 Summary

Title: Travis' Return, Mama Kelce Renovates & Conan O’Brien on Oscars Prep, Favorite Jokes & More
Date: March 11, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this energetic episode, NFL brothers Jason and Travis Kelce celebrate Travis’ decision to return for his 14th NFL season, dive into the surprising internet frenzy over Mama Donna Kelce’s Florida home renovation, recap the NFL’s wild free agency and salary cap changes, and hang out for an extended (hilarious and insightful) conversation with comedy legend Conan O’Brien. Along the way, they swap golf stories, tease each other over March Madness brackets, and share thoughtful reflections on preparation, muscle memory, and the art of interviewing—culminating in a rapid-fire session of classic Conan stories and comic gold.

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Key Discussion Points & Highlights

Travis Kelce Announces His NFL Return

• Travis reveals he’ll return for his 14th season with the Kansas City Chiefs

  • Decision made “about midway through the season” (01:34)
  • Cites Jason’s advice about letting emotions cool and reassessing before making career choices (01:40)
  • “I want to make it right, you know, I want to get another chance in another fucking Super Bowl, man.” – Travis Kelce (02:37)
  • Reflects on ending last season poorly and the drive to compete at a high level

• Reaction to Travis’ decision

  • Jason welcomes the news with brotherly excitement (03:49)
  • Teammates like Patrick Mahomes and Chris Jones publicly celebrate on social media (14:38)

Donna “Mama” Kelce and the Internet’s Obsession with Her Home Renovation

• News breaks that Mama Kelce is renovating her Florida condo
  • News goes viral (24 million views!) after TMZ picks it up (06:14)
  • Jason and Travis joke about Donna “turning her condo into a gilded palace” and tease her about gold toilets and bulletproof windows (06:36, 07:01, 10:07)
  • Call Donna live to get her reaction (09:11)
    • She clarifies: just replacing old, leaky windows to save on heating/cooling
    • Jokes about not going full “Cinderella’s Castle” despite Disney’s teasing tweet (11:34)
    • “Aren’t there terrible things happening in the world right now?” – Donna Kelce, joking about the media attention (12:14)

NFL Free Agency & Salary Cap: Chiefs and Eagles Moves

• Chiefs’ free agency update

  • Celebrate Kenneth Walker signing (“explosive all year”) (14:21)
  • Acknowledge losses: Trent McDuffie, Jalen Watson (to Rams), Brian Cook (to Bengals) but happy they “got paid” (16:08)
  • “And Spags we trust, baby.” – Travis on DC Steve Spagnuolo’s ability to rebuild the defense (17:34)

• Eagles’ updates

  • Jordan Davis extended: 3 yrs, $78M (“life-changing money … matured so much”) (18:06)
  • Loss of Jalen Phillips and Reed Blankenship (“awesome teammate,” “big part of our success”) (18:59)
  • Conversation about dramatically rising contracts and the media rights-driven salary cap boom (20:13 – 23:46)
    • Jason predicts QB salaries close to $100M/year within a decade (23:07)
    • “My God, duffy is getting 30 a year.” – Travis (22:37)

TGL Golf Experience Recap

• Jason deep-dives into the new TGL tech golf league event and facility
  • “Night and day difference” in-person vs TV (24:34)
  • Shares chipping lesson from Min Woo Lee
    • “He was like, dude, you’re too stiff … you gotta have a little bit of release, more fluid” (25:53)
  • Relive Tom Kim’s dramatic hole-in-one, arena atmosphere (“it was so fucking lit”) (27:08)
  • Friendly ribbing ahead of their Tahoe golf showdown: Jason confident, Travis skeptical (29:35–31:29)
  • Joke about Jason’s “peanut putter” (30:19), predictions for breaking 80

March Madness Bracket Challenge Returns

• Promote annual Reese’s-sponsored bracket contest (33:01–35:23)
  • Winner gets swag, signed merch, and the coveted gold cup (34:30)
  • “Those cups are expensive. They do cost over $10,000. … it’s a fun thing to take to a party and chug beers out of.” – Jason

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In Conversation: Conan O'Brien (37:30–95:50)

Oscars Prep, Comedy Craft & Legendary Stories

Warm Welcome & Banter

• Jason intros Conan with a booming, over-the-top Oscars-style intro (“six foot four … 2025 Mark Twain Prize … Masturbating Bear and Andy Richter”) (41:06)
• Conan jokes about his “physical intimidation,” Irish heritage, and his “orange sherbet” hair (37:34, 42:16)
• Chiefs fans in Team Coco studio join in cameo (42:52)
• Teases “I would physically intimidate you both” – Conan (37:47)

Comedy Writers’ Room & Show Prep

• “It’s all about preparation … we get people together and start months ago” for the Oscars (38:19)
• “Writing room vibe check is my favorite part. The two things I miss most are the band and the writers.” – Conan (39:07)

Showmanship & Classic Bits

• Late Night band intros as “end zone dances”: “the string dance and then the nipples … probably the nipples would get me tossed” (39:40)
• Reminisces about the “Walker, Texas Ranger lever”:
  • “They made us stop … the actors are starting to notice you’re playing these clips and they’re going to come after you” (44:04)
  • “I wanted to take this to trial … ladies and gentlemen of the jury, that is not acting!” (44:20)

Surviving Late Night’s Early Days

• “I started in September of ‘93 and I don’t think it really started to click … until like ‘96” (47:46)
• Compares building up a comedy world and atmosphere to the routines of athletic preparation (46:43–48:16)
• “We barely survived that first year and a half.” – Conan

Acting, Oscars and Interview Insights

• On acting:
  • “If I had to be in a serious scene, I’d be doing bits the whole time. They’d fire me right away.” (49:12)
• Prepping for the Oscars:
  • “I try to see all the movies … this was a great year” (52:32)
  • “If you guys were backstage with me, I’d go out there with way too much energy … they’d have to carry me away.” (50:57)

Joke Testing, Comedy Clubs, & Prep Work

• Jokes about prepping in “far-flung clubs” (“in the back of a bowling alley in Covina,” “pissing in an alley”) (54:31)
• “You’ve got to go urinate in an alley if you want to be [the best].” (55:08)
• On the value of preparation:
  • “What I can control is prep … the rest is mystical. If you do the prep, you have the freedom to improvise.” (56:33)
  • “It’s all the same thing. It’s muscle memory and reps.” (57:56)

Interviewing: The Conan Method

• “Find the thing that’s interesting about your guest … listeners know when you’re really interested.” (62:59)
• “The second part is listening. If you’re not really listening, you’ll breeze past golden things.” (65:19)
• Offers to scream at Jason’s kids for making noise during the interview (66:08)

Physical Comedy, Farley, and Will Ferrell

• Legendary Chris Farley memories (69:11)
  • “We walked around doing this bit for about 20 minutes, shouting at people to do what they were already doing.”
• On being “physical comedians” and never turning it off (72:15)
• Will Ferrell and Conan pretending all night on a flight—without ever breaking character (97:55)
  • “We both went into these characters … who loved books, but neither one of them could read.” (98:00)

Favorite Guests and Bits

• Favorite guest: “Norm Macdonald. … No one did what he did and no one ever can again.” (76:11)
• Dark-horse guest: Tom Cruise—“great comedically, naturally funny” (78:19)
• Favorite bit: 1875 baseball league
  • “I dressed up, grew a handlebar mustache, taunted the pitcher, and threatened to fight … I love those moments.” (80:47–81:54)

Comic Riffing & Unscripted Gold

• Comedy has no formula: “There is no book. … You learn by doing, over and over, and it sinks into your bones.” (82:50)
• On the risks of analyzing comedy: “It’s like grabbing smoke. … the minute someone tries, it just disappears.” (85:00)

Life & NBA Moments, Physical Commitment

• On giving a Harvard commencement speech: “I get energy from young people. … It keeps me from getting cynical.” (85:36)
• On physical bits and doing “dangerous” stunts
  • Promises to take a Toradol injection and go through a flaming table with Jason & Travis in Buffalo (“I’ll meet you anywhere, anytime!”) (74:57)
• Welcome to Hollywood memory: moving to seedy 1980s Hollywood, shocked by the reality vs movie-star fantasy (91:33–94:45)

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• “I want to get another chance in another fucking Super Bowl, man.” – Travis Kelce on his return (02:37)
• “Those cups are expensive. … It’s a fun thing to take to a party and chug beers out of.” – Jason Kelsey on the “gold cup” March Madness bracket prize (34:30)
• “The two things I miss the most when I’m not working on a project like this … is the band and the writers.” – Conan (39:07)
• “My version of an end zone dance … the string dance and then the nipples … probably would get me tossed.” – Conan (39:40)
• “If I was in a serious scene, I’d be doing bits the whole time … and they’d fire me right away.” – Conan on acting (49:12)
• “You’ve got to go urinate in an alley if you want to be [the best].” – Conan, about working out jokes in rough comedy clubs (55:08)
• “I always thought: I can’t control who I’m more or less talented than, but I can control prep and hard work.” – Conan (56:33)
• “There’s no book … you learn just by doing, over and over and over again, and it kind of just sinks in to your bones.” – Conan on comedy's structure (82:50)
• “Norm Macdonald. … No one ever did what he did and no one can again.” – Conan on favorite guest (76:11)
• “We both went into these characters who loved books, but neither could read. … We did a bit that lasted six hours.” – Conan on his in-flight marathon with Will Ferrell (98:00)
• “I want a professional doctor to inject me with Toradol, then I will jump through something. I promise you.” – Conan (74:57)

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Memorable, Funny, and Heartfelt Moments

• Jason and Travis roasting Donna about her “gilded” Florida renovation; Donna wryly downplays it live on-air (11:09, 12:14)
• The brothers’ back-and-forth over flawed golf swings and bets to “break 80” at Tahoe (29:35–31:29)
• Conan and Team Coco staffers geeking out over being on with the Kelces—while Conan needles them about being secret Patriots fans (42:16–43:15)
• The Chris Farley “shouting at people to do things they’re already doing” story (70:00)
• Conan’s deadpan about missing the rim while playing “The Phantom” in basketball (88:00)
• Commitments to viral stunts with Toradol and flaming tables—“I’m not kidding!” (75:17)

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Useful Timestamps for Key Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------|-----------------| | Travis’ NFL Return | 01:18–03:49 | | Mama Kelce’s Home Renovation | 06:10–13:15 | | NFL Free Agency & Cap Discussion | 13:55–23:46 | | TGL Golf Recap & Tahoe Challenge | 23:57–31:29 | | Reese’s March Madness Bracket Challenge | 33:01–35:23 | | Conan O'Brien Interview Start | 37:30 | | Oscar Prep, Comedy Process | 38:09–62:09 | | Interviewing Insights | 62:59–66:08 | | Chris Farley & Comedy Legends | 69:11–73:53 | | Favorite Guests & Comedy Bits | 76:11–81:38 | | Comedy Riffing, Philosophy | 82:50–85:25 | | Physical Comedy, Toradol Pledge | 74:26–75:17 | | Will Ferrell In-Flight Bit | 97:55–98:00 |

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Brotherhood, competition, and comedy—This episode highlights why Jason and Travis’ dynamic is compelling: honest talk about career, family, and sport, plus a strong dose of humor and humility.
• Inside the NFL/celebrity intersection—Candid insights into NFL business, salary cap, and player movement, as well as how major media deals shape athlete earnings.
• Conan’s comic wisdom masterclass—Practical advice on preparation, interviewing, and why “muscle memory” makes both comedians and athletes thrive on the big stage.
• Laughter is at the core—From towering football figures to a late-night legend, the episode celebrates the joy of riffing, not taking yourself too seriously, and always being up for a bit—preferably, in character, with deadpan delivery, and maybe even while leaping through a flaming table.

Not to Miss:

• The live call with Donna Kelce (09:11–12:32)
• Conan’s “urinate in an alley for the Oscars” practice (55:08)
• The Will Ferrell “we both couldn’t read” character marathon (97:55)

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A must-listen for fans of football, comedy, and “inside access” to both the gridiron and the green room.

Transcript

[Conan O'Brien]

Hey, what's up, new heights listeners? It's Thomas Rhett here. Country music fans and sports fans have so much in common. Bringing everybody together for a big night. And that's what my soundtrack to life tour is all about. We're gonna be playing the hits you know and love, plus brand new songs you hadn't even heard yet. So get your family and friends and come on out for a night to remember how good life is. Take. Tickets are on sale Friday atlive nation.com.

[Jason Kelsey]

you said you're trying some of these jokes out in these comedy clubs. Would you try some of them out with us right now? We don't have to put it in the episode. We can cut them.

[Conan O'Brien]

I absolutely will not.

[Jason Kelsey]

Dang it. All right, fair enough. Fair enough.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I don't trust you. I'm going to be honest with you. I don't.

[Jason Kelsey]

That is very fair.

[Conan O'Brien]

You have a great reputation. You seem like good guys. You're wholesome Ohio boys, but I don't. I think you're going to leak these. You're going to me over and you're going to. You're going to laugh and then you're going to high five each other.

[Travis Kelsey]

Gosh, this is going to be such a lousy show after hanging with Conan for an hour.

[Jason Kelsey]

Dude, we got some good stuff to talk about. Travis, it's not going to be Conan, but it's still a big show.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, I barely ever look at the rundown. I looked a little bit of Conan's rundown, but.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, I mean, have you been paying attention? I mean, 87's coming back. How about that? Come on now. Come on now.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, we're doing it again. That'd be fun. Get to reunite with my friends.

[Jason Kelsey]

Do we want to wait for the intro or should we just talk about it now? At what point did you know for sure you were coming back?

[Travis Kelsey]

About midway through the season.

[Jason Kelsey]

So what were you waiting on then?

[Travis Kelsey]

You know, I think I was taking Jason Kelsey's advice. I was taking the advice to take a step back because you don't. You gotta let the emotions clear and you gotta have a clear head. I've made decisions based off of. Of emotions, and, you know, they haven't always played out the right way. So I think taking a step back, letting the emotions settle down, the frustrations from the season, of course I want to come back. Of course I don't want to end my career not making the playoffs and not having one of the best years and, you know, definitely having a down year and. And all that. So I think taking a step back and like letting it kind of, kind of build and you know, what's my desire, what's my, what's my, you know, what's my body feel like? How did I feel going into this year versus coming out of this year and, and where my body was at and you know, even letting it kind of settle, it's, it still felt like I was hungry enough to, to get back at it. And obviously there's still a little bit of that, that grid and that emotion that, you know, I, I hated the way that shit ended last year. And I want to do this. I want to, I want to make it right, you know, I don't want to get another chance in another fucking super bowl, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, I was about to say so the addition of Kenneth Walker and Patrick Mahomes rehabilitation had nothing to do with it.

[Travis Kelsey]

No, no, I know. I knew that Pat was going to be Pat and he's going to work his fucking tail off to get back and be at his best. I knew that was a no brainer. I knew Coach Reed was going to make adjustments. I knew Veech is going to do his best to get the best guys in here. We've got Eric B. Enemy, one of my favorite coaches of all fucking time coming back into the. But outside of. I wanted to take a step back from all of that because that adds to the emotion of wanting to play again.

[Jason Kelsey]

Sure.

[Travis Kelsey]

You know, those are all. You list these pros and cons and all of a sudden we get all these good pieces. But where's my body at and where is my like mental determination, my focus, my love for the game, all of that's still there. So once I let that kind of settle and the coaches and the Kansas City Chiefs knew all, all that going into the off season so.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, welcome back. Let's, let's welcome back another episode New Heights. How about that Trav, you want to start off?

[Conan O'Brien]

Let do it. Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Welcome back to New Heights. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, it's a wondry show brought to you by Hill's Pet Nutrition. We are your host. I'm Travis Kelsey. This is my big brother JC Kelsey out of Cleveland Heights, Ohio. Shout out to those tigers upset and St Ignatius the other day, man. Shout out to the men's basketball team making it through to the regionals. We're all rooting for you, baby. Heights Tigers of the basketball side are back, baby. Shout out to JR Bremmer Heights alum as well made it to the NBA. He's turned that program around, man. Believe in heights, baby. The Tigers are back, man. But yeah, shout out to the Tigers. Shout out to the heights for. For getting packed St. Ignatius, Man. St. Ignatius has always been a powerhouse in all sports, but they're not basketball,

[Jason Kelsey]

like this says, upsetting St. Ignatius, like Cleveland Heights is somehow like big underdogs against St. Cleveland's basketball is freaking always one of the best teams in the state. What are we talking about?

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, notoriously. Yeah. I mean, we're definitely known as a basketball school for sure. And Ignatius has kind of always been, you know, Coach Capelletti. Shout out to coach. Cap.

[Jason Kelsey]

Coach. Come on, Captain. Over 30 decades built that program.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, he did.

[Jason Kelsey]

Shout out to no blue for fucking sinking a shot to win it. Or with a dagger, I guess they won. Fucking, like, by 10 or whatever it was because they weren't the underdogs.

[Travis Kelsey]

Nice. Make sure you subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast and follow the show on all social media at New Hyde show with one S. Jason, why don't you tell the people what we have?

[Jason Kelsey]

Coming up, this episode, 92 percenters. We've got another great episode. The big yeti is back. Back for year 14. My goodness. We also have some other major home renovation news. And Conan o' Brien is here. Oh, yeah, that's right, bubba. Let's get into it right now with a little bit of that new news.

[Travis Kelsey]

New news.

[Jason Kelsey]

New news is brought to you by American Express. And let's talk about the most important news out of the Kelsey family this week. We know everybody's been waiting to hear about it. Everybody's on edge of their seat, and we wanted to wait to break this news on the show, but reports have already started to leak out.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yes, everybody already knows about it, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

We got to talk about it.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

As mentioned, the tweet that leaked out has been viewed over 24 million times. Donna Kelsey is remodeling her modest Florida home. Let's give it up for Donna.

[Travis Kelsey]

Mama.

[Conan O'Brien]

Give it up for Mama.

[Jason Kelsey]

Mama. Kelsey. Mama.

[Travis Kelsey]

I told her if she needed me to, like, screw some door hinges in, I could have fucking done it for her. But I guess she wants to do the whole remodel.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, I mean, I gotta say. I gotta say modest home. Listen, Donna's changed nine windows and six doors, Mom. Really? We are that spoiled now. You gotta do all your windows in that condo, Mom, I was. What's next, the golden plated toilet or the Swarovski diamond plated faucets? I don't know, Mom.

[Travis Kelsey]

Those doors seem to work Just fine when I was there last month.

[Jason Kelsey]

What kind of doors is she installing?

[Travis Kelsey]

I don't know. Maybe she's got. There's like a new, like, remote control door. You can, like, you just press a button and it just opens up by itself. I don't know.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, congratulations, Mom.

[Travis Kelsey]

I can't wait to see how beautiful this home looks. It was already. It was already cozy.

[Jason Kelsey]

Which HGTV show do we think is remodeling was?

[Travis Kelsey]

Honestly, the comments.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, it's hilarious.

[Travis Kelsey]

All time.

[Jason Kelsey]

I mean, it's a completely absurd 24 million.

[Travis Kelsey]

It's absolutely ridiculous. I hate to give it to him, but tmz, you guys fucking struck gold with that. Really got the people going.

[Jason Kelsey]

I just really want to know what the advertisement is for. Like, what do what. What do we. It's got to be an HGTV show, right?

[Travis Kelsey]

No chance.

[Jason Kelsey]

There's no chance they're putting out a TMZ article unless there's some type of, like, advertisement of some sort tied to it. No chance.

[Conan O'Brien]

All right.

[Travis Kelsey]

I promise you. So what happens when your mom turns into reality tv?

[Jason Kelsey]

It's done a big time. So on traders remodeling her home now.

[Travis Kelsey]

So proud of her.

[Jason Kelsey]

It is impressive.

[Travis Kelsey]

She's done it with grace.

[Jason Kelsey]

You've changed, mom.

[Travis Kelsey]

Don't you do that to her. Well, if you need any extra hardworking men, you got two of them sitting here waiting to help you out.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yep, they're right over at the Home Depot. They're very good. I got them on speed dial. She doesn't want us replacing anything. We're going to it up. She'll have to replace nine other windows.

[Travis Kelsey]

Why?

[Jason Kelsey]

I don't know how to install a window.

[Travis Kelsey]

Put that in there.

[Jason Kelsey]

I don't think that's how.

[Travis Kelsey]

You got to, like, nail it down.

[Jason Kelsey]

Make that. You got to make that thing airtight. Especially kind of window she's getting.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, we're going to need a. We're going to need a ruler. The old Kelsey way. I. I love you.

[Jason Kelsey]

Have you asked mom about this? Have you. Have you talked to her about since this came out? No, I have no idea what this is. Should we ask her right now?

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, let's call her. Let's see how baffled she is that anybody even knows this. How fucking good would it be if she isn't doing this at all? I bet you $1,000 it isn't. HTTP Mom.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yes, we are doing the podcast right now. I'm on with Travis. Yeah, he just said hi. We are wondering this tweet that has taken the World by storm.

[Donna Kelsey]

That's what the heck.

[Jason Kelsey]

I know.

[Donna Kelsey]

Even tmz, you know, like, sent me a text and said, can you be on? This is really funny. I'm like, it's so stupid. They probably pulled a permit because they're coming on Monday to put my windows and doors in.

[Jason Kelsey]

Is it. Is it like an HGTV show, or is this just, like, a legitimate random. No, no.

[Donna Kelsey]

All I knew it is my. My people are coming to put in my windows on Monday.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, nice. Well, at least you're not doing it yourself, mom.

[Jason Kelsey]

You're doing 16 windows. The article says nine, because, you know,

[Donna Kelsey]

my whole apartment is all windows. Windows all the way around.

[Travis Kelsey]

What are you.

[Jason Kelsey]

What do you replace? Are you going bulletproof? What's happening here? What's. What are we replacing the windows? Are you going.

[Travis Kelsey]

Bulletproof is a banger this year.

[Donna Kelsey]

It got so cold down here. It was in the 30s, and I literally had sweat coming down the windows and pools of water in my living room because it couldn't handle it. These are cheap windows that were put in 20 years ago.

[Travis Kelsey]

These damn Floridians. They don't know about the old Midwest windows.

[Donna Kelsey]

And I'm like, I'm not doing this again. I'm putting in new windows. So I called the south and told them I wanted them to put some windows in.

[Travis Kelsey]

And this is.

[Donna Kelsey]

The date was Monday, you know, the 16th. And so that's next week. Yeah, they'll be here for three days, and they're putting windows in.

[Jason Kelsey]

So that's it.

[Donna Kelsey]

Period.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, I just wanted to say, mom, they said modest home, and I just. It feels like you're turning this place into a bit of a gilded palace, if I must say. So. I think. I think you've changed a little bit. I think you've. You've. You've had a taste of the good life, and now all of a sudden, what?

[Donna Kelsey]

Yeah, you know me. You know, I am so, like, logical, and it's like I'm doing something so that I can save money on heating and air conditioning and to keep my windows from sweating. That's as simple as it is.

[Jason Kelsey]

I know. I don't. We're just giving you. We're just having fun with it, too. It's amazing. It is hilarious and in an awesome way. We love you.

[Donna Kelsey]

And then, you know what Disney did? Disney Parks went out there and said, they took a picture of Cinderella's castle, and they said, this is not what Mama Kelsey is going to be renovating her mom's house into. And so I tweeted. Back and said, that's correct. This is not what I'm doing. Yeah, I spent almost as much time there, but I said no. But I consider it my second home.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, while they're remodeling the home, maybe Disney will let you stay in the palace as the queen that you are.

[Donna Kelsey]

I think it's so funny. It's like, doesn't any. Aren't there terrible things happening in the world right now?

[Jason Kelsey]

Okay, we don't need to talk about that. We don't need to talk about that. I love you, mama. Love your mom. Travis is screaming, I love you too as well.

[Donna Kelsey]

Oh, tell Travis I'm so happy he's going back. I'm. I'm thrilled for another year.

[Conan O'Brien]

I love you.

[Travis Kelsey]

As long as mom approves from doing the right things.

[Jason Kelsey]

Say bye to mom.

[Travis Kelsey]

Bye.

[Jason Kelsey]

No, she didn't. Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Can't wait to see what mom's house looks like. All golden windows and bulletproof glass and all.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. I mean, the TMZ article got 24 million views.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh. Insane in the membrane Inside of the brain. Sorry.

[Jason Kelsey]

All right, let's get to the actual biggest news coming out. Travis is coming back for year 14. We talked about a little bit up front.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Trap.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

What. How we feeling? How we feel?

[Travis Kelsey]

You know, feeling good about the decision. I'm feeling excited. Been texting with a few of the guys on the team and just, you know, ready to get this thing fucking going, man. It's as you know, it's. It's not a just in season thing. It's something that I, I truly believe you need an entire off season to get the body, the mind ready for training camp alone. And then training camp, you start to get that wear and tear and like, you kind of build your own armor of toughness to like, get you through the season. It's a year long thing that, that I'm excited to get going and I'm excited to be around the guys when OTAs come around and start to really mold this team, man. Get that, get that mentality back to where it needs to be. That determination that, that's, that, you know, expectations, that excellence every single day and, and doing it in our own way where we show our personalities, we get this thing fucking rolling, dude.

[Jason Kelsey]

I'm excited to see it. I'm, as a fan of my brother and as someone who loves watching you play, I can't wait to watch you play for another season. Very excited also about the Kenneth Walker signing because that guy is a beast.

[Travis Kelsey]

Can't wait to meet the Old Super Bowl M, man, the guy's just. This is unbelievable, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

He was explosive all year round. And when Charbonnet went down and he really got the chance to be the featured guy for the most part, like up in that carry load, because you always wonder sometimes, these explosive guys, when they get the full workload, if it's still got that pop. And it still had that pop, baby.

[Travis Kelsey]

Come on now.

[Jason Kelsey]

I'm not the only guy excited for you. Your teammates are all posted stuff. Patrick Mahomes posting the carousel. She's. What is. What is this alarm clock in the plane? What's that mean?

[Travis Kelsey]

This is not a play. That's a. It's a bow and arrow.

[Jason Kelsey]

Ah, Typical Travis Kelsey, Kansas City Chiefs celebration. Then we had Chris Jones on Twitter. We are so back. A lot of people pumped up. A lot of people pumped up, man.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm just as excited to be joining forces with those two guys, man. And I think we all kind of had talks at the end of the season. Like I said, I was always pretty optimistic that I was coming back there. A lot of people in the building knew that, but wanted to kind of give it some time and, and refocus it and. And let the. Let the Chiefs make some moves and figure out a lot of things first to make us an all around better team. But then, you know, we kind of talked about some of these things as the season ended. Like, man, how are we gonna never let it get to this point again? And I think we're all three, especially us three right there, kind of being at the helm and being here the longest and feeling like we have the most, you know, leadership and accountability on the team in that aspect. So no doubt excited. Excited to get back in the building with my guys and get this thing cooking.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, we just mentioned Kenneth Walker on offense. Obviously the offense has gotten better, it would appear, through the first short stint of free agency, but we did. We have lost some defensive players. Trent McDuffie signs a huge contract.

[Travis Kelsey]

There were a few guys signed some big contracts. Trent McDuffie went to the Rams. My guy, Jalen Watson, paper cups went to the Rams. They got two unbelievable corners and guys that are going to fucking come into work every single day. I'm happy both of those guys got paid. And then on top of that, we got Brian Cook. B. Cook over to Cincinnati. He's back home representing Cincinnati in the hometown for the Bengals. Also got paid. And obviously you're happy for these guys, but, man, you hate to see them go because of how much you love playing with Them and all the blood, sweat and that you put into the off season and during the season with them. So it's tough to see these guys go elsewhere, but I'm happy these guys are making lifetime money.

[Jason Kelsey]

It's insane because I was thinking about this the other day. The defense has really been outstanding for the Chiefs the past three seasons. Right. With Spags and that's been fantastic. In the backfield is completely overhauled. Right. Like you obviously with Trent McDuffie leaving now cooks like last year. Justin Reed leaves, then you're the year before that. Oh my God. Titans.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, you're talking about Legerious need snead.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yep. So it's. Yeah, it's, it's. It's had a large transformation. It'll be interesting to see how they retool that area. I mean Spags is as good as it gets. I don't know. You got to make choices, right? And offensively we needed some more firepower. They go out, get Kenneth Walker. So going to have to have some young guys step up.

[Travis Kelsey]

You ain't lying. And you know, and Spags we trust, baby. He's. He's unbelievable. I know. Dave Merritt, our DB's coach is unbelievable at getting the guys going over there and understanding the system. He's been with him since he was in New York and he's been with Spags since he was in New York. So they're, they're quite the duo. And we still got some guys in that room that can play some ball now. I know they're going to have to step up but. And become more of every down corner. But I'm excited to see it happen. Man 1 Being Noah Williams.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, there's some other free agency news as well for the Eagles. We extended Jordan Davis three years, 78 million including 65 million guaranteed. I thought this was an outstanding extension. Jordan Davis really came on this last year. Yeah, he was very strong. He had an outstanding season. Was in the best shape of his career. I'm just so happy for the.

[Travis Kelsey]

Seemed like a great fucking dude, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

He's an awesome dude, but he's matured so much. He came in with this youthful, just like he was a giant kid, man. And he still has that enthusiasm and nature to him. Like he is a big kid, but now he's grown into it. Right. And he's, he's accountable. He plays and practices hard. He does everything right. And you always love whenever guys like that get rewarded. So congratulations, Jordan Davis. That is life changing money. Quite literally. Unreal.

[Travis Kelsey]

Eagles.

[Jason Kelsey]

We did lose unfortunately. Jalen Phillips to the panthers. Signed a four year, 120 million contract with 80 guarantee. God damn. And then what, dude? The numbers this year have been astronomical in free agency. So we're going to talk about a couple of times because there's some other crazy numbers I also want to bring up. I think that there's a reason these numbers are getting to the level that are one, because they're really good players. But I think people underestimate how much the salary cap is going to continue to go up in the NFL. Let's talk about. We also lost one of the exciting whites. We are now down to the exciting white on defense. Reed Blankenship is signed with the Houston Texans on a three year, $24.75 million deal. Congratulations to Reed, awesome teammate and was a big part of our success since he was with the Philadelphia Eagles for four years. Congratulations. And here's some of these other numbers centers are getting paid. Charger signed Tyler bied as three years 30. Bill signed Connor McGovern to a four year, $52 million deal. But the big one everybody's talking about is Tyler Lindenbaum. Three years, 81 million. This dude's making over 25 million a year at the center position. I don't think people realize how fucking crazy high that is.

[Travis Kelsey]

He just jumped $10 million. The market was at what, 16, 17, I think, actually, I think Reed's Creed got up to 18. Right.

[Jason Kelsey]

So when I left the, the year, yeah, before Creed signed his deal at 18, I was making the most on a per year basis, 15 at 4, it was 14 and a half. I had, I had upside to get to 15.

[Travis Kelsey]

I think we're a half glass full kind of family, Jason.

[Jason Kelsey]

There you go. There you go. And even that was pretty high. And I think what is. Creed reset the market at 18. And then Tyler Lindenbaum in just one year has reset that by $9 million. And one. Tyler Lindbaum's incredible. He fits the scheme perfectly. Like they're going to run that QBX system down there. And in order to run that system, having a center that is really, really good makes outside zone systems go. Like you need that. Like you go back to the Denver Broncos with Mike Shanahan, you have Tom Nayland, like if you have a guy at the pivot position that can reach a nose guard and get to the second level, it makes a big difference in that run game. But beside that, all of these numbers that have been released this year have been very high. And I think it's a clear indicator the NFL salary cap is going to continue to go up. These teams banking on the seller cap rising each and every year. They know the media contracts are being negotiated right now between the NFL and all of these media companies. And it's the biggest thing that any of these networks can afford.

[Travis Kelsey]

Over the past two years it's gone up 40 mil just these past two years. Last year I think it went up 30, this year it went up 22.

[Jason Kelsey]

But what I'm saying is most of the money that dictates the salary gap are the media contracts 100%. It's gone up 40 million the last couple years or went up 40 million last year. What was it this year? You said 20 something.

[Travis Kelsey]

So yeah, last year was like 30 something. This year is 22.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. So it did that without redoing the media contracts. That's just in revenue going up across the league. What's going to drastically change it is the NBA redid their media contracts a few years ago without the revenue really going up. Like the, the, the, the viewership and everything stayed stagnant. But these networks need sports to survive. So they, they spent huge on the NBA media contracts. I really do believe that this is NFL teams knowing these media contracts that they're coming and renegotiating right now are going to be astronomically higher than they are right now. I think we're going to start seeing absurd number. I mean these are already crazy.

[Travis Kelsey]

My God, duffy is getting 30 a year.

[Jason Kelsey]

You look four or five years down the line. It's. You're going to start seeing close to. I wouldn't be surprised by. In the next 10 years you see a quarterback getting like a billion dollar contract. I'm not messing with you because look at what Pat signed. Pat signed a $500 million deal, right?

[Travis Kelsey]

Basically, I think it was just under 5. I think you're right. I think it was a little bit over five.

[Jason Kelsey]

Actually within 10 years the media contracts are all going to double. Now it's going to be a long term deal.

[Travis Kelsey]

His was a 10 year deal. Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

You're going to see quarterbacks making close to $100 million a year. I bet it is crazy what these media contracts have gone to. The networks have to have the sport because the NFL rules all of the viewership numbers. It's what all the marketers want. It's how these networks are surviving right now. They're going to get desperate to have this content. Fox, cbs, they're all freaking competing against each other. They know these numbers are going to be ridiculous in four or Five years. And they're starting to try and renegotiate them early, so it might even happen earlier. I don't know, man. I think this is a clear sign as any that all of these teams know the salary cap is going to be outrageous in four or five years.

[Travis Kelsey]

And that's all we got for this week in NFL free agency. Last bit of new news, Jason. We. We got out of the house and hit tgl, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, baby.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah. How fucking awesome was that? Well, you. Yeah, you had quite a blast. You were there, what, three days in a row?

[Jason Kelsey]

Three days. Sunday, Monday, Tuesday.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yep. And to be honest, I'm not gonna lie, I thought it was fascinating, the stuff that you were doing, where you were going underneath. You were showing the locker rooms with the players have at their disposal out there. Also the technology that goes into all this stuff, the recovery, the, the. The workout rooms and everything. It is a fascinating environment over there.

[Jason Kelsey]

And that's exactly what they brought me over to do. I think a lot of times watching, you know, on tv, you don't realize the technological.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm telling you right now, I was blown away in person. Seeing that place in person, like, let alone you don't understand what you're. What you're about to say, but seeing that place in person and being in that arena is a night and day difference of being. And watching it on tv.

[Jason Kelsey]

For sure, on tv, it doesn't. I mean, it looks good, but when you're there in person, you really get an accurate representation for the scale of it. I mean, it's enormous facility. That's screen is gigantic.

[Travis Kelsey]

It's huge.

[Jason Kelsey]

The green is huge, and it moves and changes. And the technology and, you know, the innovation put into that place is just state of the art. And I had an opportunity to go down there and show that off. And I just. First of all, I was excited to see it because the whole golf world has been talking about this facility down there in Sofi. So I'm like, dude, I. I would love to go check it out. And got the chance to see how the green works going underneath that. Got a chance to hit on the simulator and got a chance to watch some of the best golfers in the world hit in front of a grand stand full of people. I mean, it was.

[Travis Kelsey]

I will buy that ticket every day of the week. Honestly, I will buy that ticket to see my guy Minwu absolutely ripping the fucking ball, dude.

[Jason Kelsey]

I got a nice little chipping lesson from Minwu.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, what did he tell you? Because you actually look like you actually Kind of took something out of that. Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

So I. I feel like when I'm chipping, a lot of times I try to, like, take my hands out of it as much as I can and just make it like a pendulum. Almost like you're putting type thing. And he was like, dude, you're too. It's making you too stiff. You got to be more, like. You got to have a little bit of release. It's not like a full swing, but it's got to be more fluid. So he was giving me some great advice. I was, like, taking it with one hand and kind of swinging it. Then he was just kind of getting me to release the club still, even when I'm chipping. And right away, you can see how much more feel when my hands aren't involved at all, it's hard for me to gauge the feel of hitting the ball. The moment, for whatever reason, when I start to incorporate my wrist just a little bit, I feel like I can gauge speed better. Chipping and really putting, too. Like, it's. There's something about my hands being involved that I have a better feel. So it was great. I would. I would love to take more lessons from you, Minwu. I don't know if you got time. I know you're busy winning all sorts of championships.

[Travis Kelsey]

He was top 10 over at Arnie's place this week. There we go. Last I looked, he was gonna start

[Jason Kelsey]

putting some money down on Min Wu. And then Tom Kim hitting the hole in one to win and claw their way back from a major deficit and make the playoffs was pretty freaking epic.

[Travis Kelsey]

Dude. It was so fucking lit in that goddamn arena when he made that. Dude, it was so fun, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

Before we were getting ready to do that show that day, they're like, hey, Jason, we're thinking about putting you back up in the lift for those holes. And I'm like, dude, guys, I'm happy we did the lift thing, but honestly, it was terrifying. I don't want to go back up there.

[Travis Kelsey]

That was the one and done thing right there.

[Jason Kelsey]

And they said, okay, well, what if we do some fun bit where, like, hey, you've had a long week. We're going to show off the cold tub. You get in the cold tub to ice down your legs and recover from a long week at tgl. I'm like, all right, yeah, that sounds good. So when that happened, I'm in the locker room in my bathing suit, about to be, like, trying to even get to see it in person.

[Travis Kelsey]

Damn right.

[Jason Kelsey]

I just hear the whole place erupt. And I'm like, dude, what just happened? And we pull it up on the, like, phone, and we see that Kim hit a hole in one. And they're like, all right, we're about to cut to the cold plunge thing at the next break. I'm like, there's no way they're gonna come in here. There's so much shit happening out there.

[Travis Kelsey]

Keep it on the guys. Keep it on the guys. Keep it on the guys.

[Jason Kelsey]

But the lead producer, Jeff, gave me a good ribbon. He's like, yeah, we. I bet you would have liked to have been in the lift when that happened as opposed to in the locker room. I'm like, yeah, you're probably right, but it was an epic week. Got to, you know, talk to Tiger Woods. It was just. It was so cool being down there talking with Homa and Minwu.

[Travis Kelsey]

Max. Max was such a good dude. He was enjoying himself after that win.

[Jason Kelsey]

No doubt. No doubt. So it was. It was a great week, and we got to play golf together. I got to see you, Trav. It was just. It was a very fun three days, especially in Florida, out of the bitter snow that we had that week in Philadelphia.

[Travis Kelsey]

So, yeah, I'm saying it right now. We got to do a live event. We got to do it, dude. We got to do it. We have to. We. I. If they let us. I don't know what they let us.

[Jason Kelsey]

I don't know what that cost.

[Travis Kelsey]

Technology, and. And now I think we can feel this. I think we could fill the seeds, man. I think it's. It's such a cool atmosphere. I think there's a way we could. We could have some fun with it. Bring it. Because everybody golfs, man. Don't get me wrong. We're. We're no professionals, but. Yeah, but it's. It's. It's fun to compete, and it's fun to be on a live stage like that in such a unique atmosphere, and I think. I think we could. We could put something together and get some things brewing just in the NFL world, let alone if we start crossing leagues and bringing other guys into it.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, I do got to ask you. You saw my golf game for three days. Basically two days. Are you getting nervous about our Tahoe? No. What? I thought I was playing pretty good.

[Travis Kelsey]

You are playing pretty good. That doesn't mean you're going to get into positives, all right, Trev, you're not 30 strokes better than what you were.

[Jason Kelsey]

I don't need to be 30 strokes.

[Travis Kelsey]

You're right. It's not 30 strokes. I'm sorry.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

You're not. You're not. You're not. Not.

[Jason Kelsey]

If you break 80, you'll. You're gonna be in the positive.

[Travis Kelsey]

You. You think you're breaking 80?

[Jason Kelsey]

I think I'm gonna be able to break 80. Yeah, I do. All I gotta do is fix up this short game. I got it.

[Travis Kelsey]

Get rid of that putter, dude.

[Jason Kelsey]

You get rid of that butter, I

[Travis Kelsey]

might start shaking in my boots. You get rid of that putter, I might start shaking in my boots.

[Jason Kelsey]

I'm doing it with that freaking peanut putter. Whatever you want to call it. That Bullseye staying in the bag.

[Travis Kelsey]

You don't even have to have Bullseye. Don't. You don't even know where to hit it on the club to hit it consistently.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yes, I do. Yes, I do. I just miss it sometimes. I know where to hit it. I just don't hit it where I'm trying to hit it sometimes. It's a small aim, small miss, small type thing. It's a small sweet spot, you know? It's gonna be fine. It's gonna be fine.

[Travis Kelsey]

There is no chance you're breaking 80 with that putter.

[Jason Kelsey]

All right, well, we shall see. I have never been more confident. Just let me put it.

[Travis Kelsey]

Let me say that to be fair, breaking 80 one day isn't going to get you into the positives.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yes, it is. Well, it will for a day. I mean, if you do it all three days, you'll be in the positive. But, yeah, breaking 80 by that stable forward scoring will probably be in the pot. Will be in the positive for sure. Because if you're breaking 80, you're only getting.

[Travis Kelsey]

No, no, no. I hear. But you got to do it three days in a row.

[Jason Kelsey]

Oh, that's the thing. Yeah. You would have to break 80 all three days to be in the positive.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

But you can do it without breaking 82.

[Conan O'Brien]

Really?

[Jason Kelsey]

If you break. As long as you eliminate doubles, you can be in the positive fairly easily in the Stableford scoring.

[Travis Kelsey]

I don't know, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

Because a par is a point.

[Travis Kelsey]

Well, I guess. Yeah. And. And, yeah,

[Jason Kelsey]

you really.

[Travis Kelsey]

The doubles. The doubles are the ones.

[Jason Kelsey]

And the things that get me. Doubles are the drives, which I think you'll agree. My drive was on point this week. I got that thing figured out with that blue shaft. I was.

[Travis Kelsey]

I was up there living it counts accounts. Yeah, it does. It definitely does. All right, well, that does it. For new news, shout out to everybody at TGL for making that absolutely epic. And shout out to all the NFL teams Making moves in the offseason. Once again, new news brought to you by American Express. Shout out to American Express. All right, let's keep this thing moving before we get to Conan. 92 percenters. It's March, and you know what that means. We are officially running it back with the new heights Reese's March madness bracket challenge. That's right. So we need all you guys to enter and give your best bracket. Jason, have you been watching any. Any basketball?

[Jason Kelsey]

I have not as typical. I am knee deep in football stuff all for the most of the basketball season, so I just don't see a lot of college basketball. I would love to offer my expertise, though, on who to pick. So look for that. Which is usually based on height. For asking. I might ask expert. This year, I might not even. I might just go completely off of somebody else's opinions.

[Travis Kelsey]

Okay.

[Conan O'Brien]

All right.

[Jason Kelsey]

I got somebody that I know that knows a lot about women's basketball. Oh, who? You know, not saying any names. Not saying anything.

[Travis Kelsey]

You scared to tell us? He's. He's lying.

[Jason Kelsey]

I just don't want to put him on the spot. Don't want to put on the spot.

[Travis Kelsey]

All right, well, I watched quite a bit of men's basketball, and I know that Cincinnati is on the bubble right now.

[Jason Kelsey]

Come on, Bearcats.

[Travis Kelsey]

We shall see. I know Miami of Ohio is undefeated, and that's about as far as I could tell. Jason, if you're going to cheat and ask people for opinions. So, wait, that's cheating?

[Jason Kelsey]

That's cheating? Yeah. Doing research is cheating?

[Travis Kelsey]

Yes. Do your own research. Cite your source. If you're not gonna tell us your source.

[Jason Kelsey]

Tell you. I'll tell you. I'll tell you. I will. I will tell you my sources.

[Travis Kelsey]

Jake won the bracket challenge last year.

[Jason Kelsey]

The truth.

[Travis Kelsey]

Way to send it. Way to send it. And, yeah, Jake won it last year, but no chance he wins it this year. 0. Men's and women's brackets open on selection Sunday, March 15th. Next week, we will make our final four picks and share the links to participate in our bracket challenge. So this year, the winners will get a swag bag with signed new heights merch and Reese's cups. Ooh, you think we ran out of gold cups? Jason, we can get some more.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, I mean, they can make more of them.

[Travis Kelsey]

You know where to get them?

[Jason Kelsey]

Gold cup. I think they at least got to get another gold cup. Yeah, we can get more gold cups.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, let's get some more gold cups. I don't know. I still don't have a gold cup, so. Yeah. Why don't we get a few of those?

[Conan O'Brien]

All right.

[Jason Kelsey]

I will get you a gold cup.

[Travis Kelsey]

I would love it. Can I get it embroidered, Travis?

[Jason Kelsey]

I'll pay for it. Right. From the New Heights account that's in both of our tapes. Yeah, we can definitely. We can do it. We can do that. We can get you a cup. We can get the winner of this a cup. Those cups are expensive. They do cost over $10,000. It is gold plated. It is. It's a big deal. It's a big deal. And it's a fun thing to take to a party and chug beers out of.

[Travis Kelsey]

So I've also used it as a casino chips cup. You put your kids hips in that cup.

[Jason Kelsey]

It is a good look. I have done very well at the casino in my gold cup. There's no question.

[Travis Kelsey]

There you go. All right, now, once again, thank you to our friends at Reese's for teaming up for this March Madness bracket challenge. May the best 92 percenter win. Let's get to our conversation with Conan O'. Brien.

[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

Find the right [e-mail] science does more. Thank you to our sponsor, American Express.

[Travis Kelsey]

The more we travel, the more we care about taking it slow.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yep, there's nothing like having time to take your time. Vacation mode is a real thing.

[Travis Kelsey]

And honestly, that feeling, it should stay with you from the minute you start your trip to the minute you get back home.

[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

Hotels that actually understand what it means to take your time and be taken care of. You check in, settle in and take things day by day, your whole trip

[Travis Kelsey]

at your own pace, just the way you want it. Now that's how you know you're doing it, right?

[Jason Kelsey]

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[Travis Kelsey]

Learn more@American Express.com with Platinum. Oh my God.

[Conan O'Brien]

We rolling, guys.

[Travis Kelsey]

Dude, we're rolling.

[Jason Kelsey]

Legend.

[Conan O'Brien]

Guys, meet 6ft 4 inches hundred 90 pounds of pure Irish magic.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Conan O'Brien]

I wish I was there in person because I would physically intimidate you both.

[Travis Kelsey]

I wouldn't be able to take it.

[Conan O'Brien]

You just wouldn't be able to. It's too much. It's a lot of man right here talking to you guys. But try and control yourselves. How are you both doing?

[Travis Kelsey]

Good, dude. Absolutely fantastic, man. Thank you for the time.

[Conan O'Brien]

Thanks for having me on.

[Jason Kelsey]

You're preparing for the. What is. How much of that team overlaps with like what you do with team Coco and like late night? Like, is it completely separate?

[Conan O'Brien]

No, there's a lot of overlap. A lot of these are writers that I've used before. They worked with me for years. I mean, I've been at this forever. I have all my favorite writers come in for this and we just get a room going. It's not probably unlike your world where it's all about preparation. So we get people together and we start a couple of months ago and we just start working and we have a room that goes all the time and I drop in and out of it. I usually just waste their time. I do all this bullshit. I get them laughing, but it's not in any way productive. For the vibe check.

[Travis Kelsey]

You always get a vibe check.

[Conan O'Brien]

Exactly. That's what it is. It's a lot of vibe check. So that's just fun. That's. That part is probably my favorite part. The two things I miss the most when I'm not working on a project like this or doing a late night show is the band and the writers.

[Travis Kelsey]

You're so in sync with the band, specifically the drummer. I mean, the intros to the late night are some of my favorite, like, showman work of all time. I mean, the hips with the high hats.

[Conan O'Brien]

Are you kidding me?

[Travis Kelsey]

The, the, the. The coattails to the tip chest.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes, yes. The nipple. The nipple twisting. Yeah. You know, this was my version of an end zone dance. You know, like that was my I, I always, you know, was thinking if I ever did somehow accidentally get thrown into a game and managed to catch a football in the end zone, it would be the string dance and then the nipples and then I'd probably be. It. Probably the nipples would get me tossed. Probably.

[Travis Kelsey]

Right.

[Conan O'Brien]

I don't think you're allowed to do that.

[Travis Kelsey]

It probably gets you a little. Fine.

[Jason Kelsey]

It'd be at least 15 yards.

[Conan O'Brien]

All right, well, you know, it's maybe worth it. Maybe worth it.

[Jason Kelsey]

It is. Hey, if you get in that end zone, you can do whatever you want.

[Travis Kelsey]

Exactly.

[Jason Kelsey]

We're going to talk more about this. We're going to do the intro real quick though, and because I know we got it in the show with the Oscar prep and everything.

[Conan O'Brien]

So whatever you guys want to do. Whatever you want to do.

[Travis Kelsey]

You're the man, dude.

[Jason Kelsey]

Here we go. Hardy. Our guest today is a six foot four comedian, writer and fellow podcaster out of Brookline, Massachusetts. He graduated Magnum cum laude from a small state school just outside of Boston. He is a six time Emmy winner, winner of the 2025 Mark Twain Prize for humor. You might know him from his time as the host of the hip podcast Conan o' Brien Needs a Friend or is the host of the Emmy award winning Travel series Conan O' Brien must go. Or from his 16 year stint as the host of Late Night with Conan o'.

[Travis Kelsey]

Brien.

[Jason Kelsey]

He is the man that give the world comedy classics such as Pimbot Triumph, the Insult Comedy Dog, Masturbating Bear and Andy Richter. And this Sunday, he is back for his second time hosting the Academy Awards. 92 percenters. Please welcome the largest Irishman I know now, Conan O'. Brien.

[Conan O'Brien]

My God, I've been waiting for that intro. Hey, Jason, are you available to do my intro for the Oscars? Are you?

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, be careful what you throw out there, Conan.

[Conan O'Brien]

If you did that, first of all, it would be way too long. The Oscar people would be so pissed. The band's playing, Kelsey Nation would be going crazy. A lot of people would be tuning in to the Oscars for the first time.

[Jason Kelsey]

Time.

[Conan O'Brien]

Hey, absolute honor to be here. And I do want to stress if you saw me in person, you'd have. I'd have nothing but mad respect from both of you because I am a physical. I am a specimen. I'm a physical specimen. And a lot of people don't know that because I act like such a fool.

[Travis Kelsey]

The hair is a golden red right now. That thing, the top looking fan. Fantastic, dude.

[Conan O'Brien]

Isn't that beautiful? I have so many wigs for every occasion. Don't you envy my wife? She sees this orange sherbert lying on the pillow next to her. She's so thrilled. And also, everyone here in my world, Team Coco, so excited that I'm doing this, that I've got fans sitting in right now. A huge. Chiefs fans. Tanisha and Buddy, just jump over here. Can you see them?

[Jason Kelsey]

Jump over.

[Conan O'Brien]

Come on over here. I mean, he's fanatic. And get in here. Get in close. Right around me. There they are.

[Jason Kelsey]

Check out the jersey.

[Conan O'Brien]

All they do is talk about the damn Chiefs.

[Travis Kelsey]

And by the way, what are you talking about, baby?

[Conan O'Brien]

No offense. I'm a Patriots guy, born and raised.

[Travis Kelsey]

Had a feeling.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, sorry about that.

[Travis Kelsey]

Not a terrible situation to be in as a Patriots fan.

[Conan O'Brien]

Not a terrible, terrible situation to be in. And then, you know, I wanted to get some Eagles fans in here, but they're too violent.

[Jason Kelsey]

They're just, you know, you got to go down to the courthouse to find some of those. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

If we had Eagles fans in here, they would be tearing out the equipment and throwing it at me. I'm terrified of an Eagles fan. Much respect, but they frighten me. They're so intense. But, guys, it's a huge treat. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

[Jason Kelsey]

The treat is all ours. I mean, I can't tell you how much we watched you all growing up, and we've followed. I mean, we played hockey growing up, and we would go and have sleepovers when we were younger, and we're like. I mean, middle. Middle school at this time. And we would stay up, play video games, and purposely stay up just to watch Late Night with Conan o' Brien every time. See the Walker Texas Ranger lever.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, the Walker Texas Ranger lever was one of my favorite things ever.

[Travis Kelsey]

Ever.

[Conan O'Brien]

I was ever. And it's one of the things I'm most happy about. And then they made us stop doing it because the. Because they said that we're playing all these clips and there's actors in those clips. And they said to me, you know, the actors are starting to notice you're playing these clips and you're not paying them, and they're going to come after you. And so we got to cut it down. And I was. So. I went into a depression because it was my favorite thing. And then I said to my producer, I want it to end. To my lawyer, I want to take this to trial. And they're like, what are you talking about? And I said, I want to show these. These people. These actors are gonna go crazy. And I said, no, I wanna go to trial and show the clips and then say, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, that is not acting. And they said, you are not gonna do that. That is not happening. Shut up. So that had to go away.

[Jason Kelsey]

But he would have won right there.

[Conan O'Brien]

This is before Internet, so I didn't know we had. When the show first started, all we had was like reviews to go off of and the reviews were written by people my age or older and they didn't unders. They just didn't like what I was doing. And no one told me that. No, there's all these 14 year olds out there who are staying up and watching it and they're like building a religion around it. And so I always wish, well, why couldn't, you know, Travis and Jason have got a hold of me back then and said, hey man, you're crushing it. There was no, there was no way. And I now I meet all these comics who are huge stars now who are like, oh no, I grew up watching your stuff. And I thought, well, we didn't know, no one told us. We didn't have any idea.

[Jason Kelsey]

So it was a kind of a rough start. No, like the first episode, you came in with high expectations off of SNL and like, like everybody was like, man, Conan o' Brien is hilarious. He's going to kill it. And the only reason I know this is because I tried my hand at a late night show this year. One of the hardest things I've ever done. But I had.

[Conan O'Brien]

You had a bunch of my writers. Yeah, all of them.

[Jason Kelsey]

They were all former Late Night with Conan o', Brien, John Glazer, Tammy Sager, Andy Blitz and Kevin Dorff. All those, they were all written on the show. It was so hard and daunting and they knew what a fan I was of your stuff and they said like, it wasn't easy for Conan when he just got started. It was, it took him a while to like really get into it and everything. So I don't know, I don't know why I'm bringing this up now. But yeah, go ahead.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's like anything else where again, I think there are probably some analogies to your guys profession where, you know, you come up, you think about comedy all the time, you're obsessed with it and then finally you get your show. But I was 29 when I auditioned. I had never done anything on television. And so, you know, it's one of those situations where I was thrown in, you know, as a rookie and it was, I'm just Getting sacked left and right, it's kind of a disaster. We were doing the kind of comedy that I wanted to do, which was very strange and stuff that I really believed in and that my head writer, Robert Smigel, really believed in. So we knew we were doing what we wanted to do. But I had to learn a lot. I had to kind of learn how to, you know, in your world, it would be like, see the field and figure out how it all comes together and gels. And the only situation was you're just out there alone. You're one of just a few late night hoes. This is back when there weren't any. And I mean, there were very few. And so there's a lot of focus. There's an incredible amount of focus. So, yeah, we barely survived that first year and a half, two years. I always thought I was going to get canceled and. But then it started to gel and then it started to click. But I think I, I mean, I started in September of 93 and I don't think it really started to click with Americans until like 96.

[Jason Kelsey]

It makes sense too, looking back at it though, because a lot of the stuff ended up. You're building like this atmosphere within the show, right? Like, there's like so many pieces and characters and bits and things that take time to really take foot for, like, fans watching. But once they're in, it's like, this stuff is gold, man. It is hilarious and the fans love it. And I feel more like, and maybe I'm wrong on this, but it feels like you almost more than any of the other late night show hosts. There's like a level of fandom that is like, to a die hard nature. Like, people absolutely love Conan o' Brien with like an infatuation.

[Travis Kelsey]

He's so spot on. And I've always actually wondered why. Why haven't you done more acting? Oh, well, I've always, I've always in my mind, like, man, he's. He's so good. He could do all of it. He's got the full gamut. But I, I feel like, I feel like you haven't, like, I don't know, am I, am I off on that?

[Conan O'Brien]

No, no, you're not off. You're off about a lot of things. But I am, I am off. This is, you know, I mean, Travis, so you're so off on just about everything. But, and, and I'm getting this from Jason, but he's got a lot of complaints. No, you're absolutely right. You know, here's the problem. I Can I just love what I do so much that the idea of me being in, like, a buddy cop movie, if it's comedy, I would be excited to do it. And I did a serious acting role this year with Rose Byrne for this movie. If I had legs, I'd kick you. Which did really, you know, was. It's. She's nominated for an Oscar, and that was exciting to try, but I don't think I have it in me to be in a real acting scene. Meaning if. If I was in a scene and my job was to tell a woman how much I loved her and then start crying, I would just be doing bits the whole time and jokes, and they'd fire me right away, you know, Like, I couldn't. You know what I mean? If my job was.

[Jason Kelsey]

I loved you. I love you so much.

[Conan O'Brien]

I think I would. I mean, people in the audiences would just be laughing, and then I'd probably look at the camera and go, whoa, what do you want from me? You know, so.

[Travis Kelsey]

No, that makes all the sense in the world.

[Jason Kelsey]

She's grieving about her father just dying in your.

[Conan O'Brien]

And I'm like, you get another father. What's the big deal? Fathers are a dime a dozen. You know, I do some stupid bit, I'd ruin it. Guys, it's for the best. It's for the best that I stay out of acting.

[Jason Kelsey]

You're not staying out of the acting world. You are hosting the Oscars for your second time coming up this Sunday.

[Conan O'Brien]

Guys, I need you. I will fly you in. You guys have to be backstage with me, getting me psyched up just before I go out. If you did that, I'd go running out there with way too much energy, and they'd have shots of, like, Timothee Chalamet and, you know, these, like, famous actors. Brad Pitt being. What is wrong with him? Yeah, we're gonna kill it. We're gonna chew it up and spit it out.

[Jason Kelsey]

We're gonna fucking kill him.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. And then doctors would rush in and carry me away.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's right, Trav. We'll give him. We'll give him some pre workout drinks, some smelling salts, creatine. You'll be juiced to the gills. You give them all that. We're going to.

[Travis Kelsey]

We're going to need to give him a helmet to all those things. You need to put a helmet on if you're going to do that. That. That concoction could go crazy if we did this.

[Conan O'Brien]

I would totally. The Oscars would be a disaster. And afterwards, word would get out. People would be going like, what happened? He did it last year and it was good. What happened? Well, did we mention that Travis and Jason Kelsey were backstage with him? They gave him some stuff to drink. They gave him a helmet, and they yelled at him. That might have had something to do with it.

[Travis Kelsey]

Then Conan went over and speared the trombonist. It was crazy.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, Just take him out. Just take him out. Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

Electric. Give the people what they want to see, man.

[Conan O'Brien]

Sure. You got to. You got to.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, have you seen most of the movies that are up for awards? How does it. When you're hosting, do you make a point to try and watch all of them? And.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, I really do try to see them all. And this was a great year. I mean, this was a year where there's big stars in the films, There's a lot of great movies, there's box office hits, movies that did really well. So I watched them all and I thought, this is a great crop of movies. So it's a good year to host. I was excited about it.

[Jason Kelsey]

You had a Kendrick Lamar joke last year that you bet one of your writers on that, whether it was going to work out or not.

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, no, I didn't bet him. My producer did. My. One of my writers wrote a joke, and I think it was. I'm trying to think of what it was. Was like, well, it. We're halfway through the show, and Kendrick Lamar had. He had just done the super bowl halftime show, and. And who was he feuding with? Drake. It was Drake. That's right. It was Drake. And so, you know these feuds, I try and keep up with them. Yeah. I said, hey, we're halfway through the show, which means it's time for Kendrick Lamar to call Drake a pedophile. And it destroyed. It destroyed. And people went crazy for it. But just before he went out, my producer Jeff Ross was like, that joke's gonna bomb. No one's gonna get it. And I'm like, are you kidding me? And so he bet the writer of the joke. And as I walk backstage, I see my producer handing him, like, $100 better than I thought. Yeah. But I was never in doubt about that one.

[Jason Kelsey]

Are there any jokes you're worried about this year? How does. How do you go sussing out which ones make it and which ones don't?

[Conan O'Brien]

Probably one of the best things to do, which I've been doing now for about two months, is I go to clubs and I show up as a surprise, and I go to far flung clubs, like, really clubs that are Way out there.

[Travis Kelsey]

JC, could you imag. Just sitting there and Conan walks out. What?

[Jason Kelsey]

That'd be so cool.

[Conan O'Brien]

It's fun. And you go to these places where. I mean, sometimes it literally is like a little comedy club in the back of a bowling alley in Covina. And there's no. Like, the bathroom door is busted. So they say, just use the alley. So I was in an alley in Covina, pissing up against a wall before I did my set, and I thought, I'm hosting the Oscars in, like, five weeks, and I'm pissing in an alley in Covina. And I. And I just thought, like, this is amazing. I love this.

[Travis Kelsey]

This is what it takes to be the best.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, you've got to go urinate in an alley if you want to be. I'll be probably doing that just before the Oscars, minutes before, I'll say, do you guys have an alley? What are you talking about?

[Jason Kelsey]

I'm superstitious.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, I'm superstitious. I need an alley right now, and I need nine quarts of water. You go out and you try jokes out, and you. Over time, you get a sense of. These ones seem to consistently do well. This one doesn't seem to land right. And it's just a lot of. Again, something you guys can relate to. Prep. I mean, a lot of things in life are put in the work and do the prep. I'm a big believer. I always thought how much talent I have isn't my business. I don't even know. It's very hard to know, like, am I more talented than that person or less talented than that person? I always thought, I can't control that. That's a mystical thing that you can never really know. What I can control is prep. I can control prep, and I can control hard work. And be honest with yourself. When it didn't go right, don't tell yourself it went great. Be honest with yourself. So those are the principles that I probably think apply to not just your profession. My profession, but you can apply that anywhere. You know, there's a lot I can't control. And. And if you do the prep, then you. If the plan doesn't go right, then you. You improvise. But you have a freedom. Well, at least I did the prep. So now I feel free to okay, this. This didn't unfold the way I wanted it to. And this prop just broke or something just went wrong in front of everybody. But now I can make something up. I can scramble. And I think that, again, same principles in my business as your business. It's the same thing.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

You're 100. Right. And I, I think two. Two of the things you have touched on or like monikers that we use our whole career, like the control. What you control is something that is so important in athletics and really everything. Right. So many people get wound up in their head thinking about what ifs and things that are outside what they have control of and say, hey, if you just focus on these things, this is actually what's going to allow you to be successful. To me, I felt like whenever I practice and really put the time in and I just felt confident and you're not as nervous. You don't worry as much. You're just kind of out there doing what you just did all week, preparing for. And it does free you up and trying new things out. You know, you're going to the clubs. We would try things out in practice. You know, I go out there, hey, I'm going to try this technique out today. Oh, I just got my ass kicked. Okay, let's throw that one away. We're not going to try that one again.

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, I got my answer. Yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah. Great.

[Conan O'Brien]

And there's also a thing that I think about a lot is muscle memory. And you'd think you can apply that to anything. You can apply muscle memory, obviously, to athletics, which is just thousands and thousands and thousands of reps. So you're not thinking when you. When you catch the ball. You're not thinking when you, you know, when you're centering up. You're not thinking about any of that stuff because it's the muscle memory. It's the same thing that happens in comedy, and it's the same thing that happens, I'm sure, in every other profession where you have that, and that can take over so you don't have to waste any brain power thinking about that. And it frees up space to take advantage of. Oh, wait, this weird thing just happened. I'm gonna go left or I'm gonna go right. It's all the same thing.

[Jason Kelsey]

Traveling to call that blacking out. He's talked about that numerous times.

[Travis Kelsey]

But you do the work so that you have those natural instincts ready in your back pocket to play. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think, I think it's so fascinating. We all have. We all have the different, like the. You were talking about the, the work you put in, the prep you put in. We all have that different, like, world that is our prep. And I think that's where you really make it unique. You make it You. And to hear that you're going to these kind of one off, small town comedy spots, that is so cool to know that you use those to be on literally the biggest stage that anybody could ever be on.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. The other thing that's great about it is I get a lot of energy from being around. I mean, sometimes these are, you know, people in their 20s are hanging out, trying out their sets there and they have. It's tough to make a living and stand up right now because the business structure of it all has changed. So a lot of these people that I'm hanging out with before I go up or after I go up, have two other jobs and you see that I like anything that reminds me that the scale of things can change. You know, you can, you can, you can be in the super bowl or you can be hosting the Oscars, but fundamentally in. It's not different from you playing in the street in front of your house. There is something that the two are connected. And to act like there's not a connection between the two, I think is silly because there is. There's a real fundamental connection. And I think sometimes people forget, they think, well, you know, super bowl, that's just going to be a whole new thing. And you think, well, actually, fundamentally it's the same thing. We've added all these layers of, you know, money and, you know, prestige and commercials and, you know, there's going to be rockets firing in the air and there's a huge halftime show. But fundamentally it's the same thing. And that's what I think about is when I go out there in a couple of days, it's going to be the same thing that I've been trying to do in one way or another since I was 14 years old. It's really not that different. It's just now I've got makeup, like a really nice touch wall. Exactly. Well, there might be time for that. We'll see. You know, but yeah, you said you're

[Jason Kelsey]

trying some of these jokes out in these comedy clubs. Would you try some of them out with us right now?

[Conan O'Brien]

I absolutely will not. I'm too superstitious.

[Jason Kelsey]

Fair enough. Fair enough.

[Conan O'Brien]

I absolutely will not. And I, and I don't trust you. I'm going to be honest with you. I don't trust you.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's fair. That is very fair.

[Conan O'Brien]

You guys are, you have a great reputation. You seem like good guys. You know, you're a wholesome Ohio boys, but I don't. I think you're going to leak these. You're going to fuck me over and you're going to, you're going to laugh and then you're going to high five each other. That's what's going to happen.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's right. You see right through us going in. All right, last Oscars question. Will the Dune sandstorm be making another appearance?

[Conan O'Brien]

You know, I gotta change it up. And this culture moves so quickly that the thing that you could joke about last year, you know, this year if I made a Dune joke, people would be like, what's Dune? I mean, everyone has such short attention spans now that they're thinking about these movies that we're talking about tonight. And if I talk about something that happened six weeks ago, they don't know what I'm talking about. So, yeah, there'll be no June this year.

[Travis Kelsey]

Well, let's move on to something we've really been wanting to ask you since we've found out that we were going to have the pleasure having you in front of us. Kind of already touched a little bit on this, but as someone that's done 4380 episodes of late night TV and now a fellow podcaster, what is, what's the golden nugget to becoming a better interviewer?

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay, I do have a strong opinion about this, which is, yes, it's not a good one, but it's a strong opinion. No, I, I think that you can do kind of a Jedi mind trick on yourself. And I do this if you're talk, if you're interviewing a lot of people. And over the years, I would interview like three people a night, five nights a week, you know, 40, 46 weeks a year. I mean, it was just a total grind. And there'd be people that would come on the show that I, to be honest with you, because you're doing such a volume business, I wasn't naturally that interested in that person that would happen. It's just there's no way around it. And what I would do is I would spend some time thinking about that person and try to find the thing about either themselves or what they do that was interesting to me. And if you think about it, you can always find that thing. So you could at first glance have a guest and you're thinking, you know, we're talking to this guy is the, was the former treasury secretary. Why do I want to talk to the former treasury secretary? And then, but then if you look at it, you find out, oh, he's, he loves restoring 1967 Chryslers. And then you're like, oh, that's kind of cool. Or he. He likes taekwondo. Wait a minute. That's interesting. If you think about someone and read a little bit about them, you'll find things that's your way into that person. And I think humans listening to any interview podcast late night, they can tell when you are really interested. And so all it is is finding what's the thing that interests you about that person. And the second part is listening. Because believe it or not, there are a lot of interviewers out there who don't listen. They just. They have their question they want to ask, but they're not really listening. And if you're listening, you'll hear the person say something like, you know, there was that summer that I worked in a coal mine. And you'd be like, wait a minute.

[Jason Kelsey]

What?

[Conan O'Brien]

You worked in a coal mine? What's that all about? And if you're not listening, you let you breeze right past that and you, you know, you lose this golden thing. So those are the tricks.

[Travis Kelsey]

Yeah, I mean, that makes all the sense in the world.

[Conan O'Brien]

By the way, I hear kids in the background. I hear children.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's mine. Yeah, I do this in my basement.

[Conan O'Brien]

No, no, that's big production.

[Travis Kelsey]

Big production.

[Conan O'Brien]

If you want, Jason, I will totally scream at them for you.

[Jason Kelsey]

God, which one. Which one's making noise?

[Travis Kelsey]

Which one's making noise?

[Jason Kelsey]

Conan wants to scream at them. Real. I'm getting a no from my wife.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, that's okay. I respect her. I respect her for that. No, you know what? It's for the best because your children would be scarred for life. They'd say, why did that orange haired woman yell at us? And that lady was so mean.

[Jason Kelsey]

Thank you to our sponsor, Allstate.

[Travis Kelsey]

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[Jason Kelsey]

Not checking. The clocks are reset after daylight savings time.

[Travis Kelsey]

Rookie move. To be fair, I was only late because I have no idea what time zone I'm in.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's why checking is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate.

[Travis Kelsey]

Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois.

[Jason Kelsey]

Thank you to our partner, Liquid iv. Spring is here. And you know what that means. Spring break travel. Who doesn't love a good spring break travel? We oftentimes would find ourselves growing up going down to Florida, where our grandmother lived. Our uncle lived on Marco island. And then we'd try and time it up in a little Disney World action. It was the Highlight growing up as a kid. And then I got into high school and we would go every spring break to tour as a jazz ensemble where I forgot to mention to Conan o' Brien that I actually played at Brookline High School. I competed in jazz against his alma mater. Anyways, spring break is perhaps the best time of year for kids and adults who have kids because you get to enjoy some incredible family memories. All right, as travel vets, we know how important staying hydrated is on the go. Whether you're jet setting to escape somewhere warm for a few days or taking the kids to go see the family, long travel days take a toll on your body and especially your hydration. That's why Liquid IV is a must have in your carry on bag. Just tear one open, pour it into your water bottle and you're good to go. With an optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins and clinically tested nutrients, Liquid IV turns ordinary water into extraordinary hydration that helps you rehydrate more than water alone. Plus there's tons of hydration multiplier flavors to choose from like cotton candy, popsicle, firecracker or my favorite pina colada. Or you can try sugar free options with flavors like white, peach, lemon, lime, rainbow, sherbert and more. Wherever you're heading this spring, travel with on the go hydration from Liquid IV. Tear poor live more. Head to LiquidIV.com and get 20 off your first order with the code new heights at checkout. That interview Vice is great because I. It is often that you find yourself like you're. You get caught in the questions and you're not listening and that's what it's like. It doesn't feel like a conversation. It doesn't feel like it's going anywhere. The other thing we find that we're often doing is we're just doing like a bit of that Chris Farley SNL thing.

[Travis Kelsey]

Do you remember?

[Jason Kelsey]

That was great, right?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes. Man, I love that sketch. I love when he would do that. Did you guys. You guys are huge Farley fans, is that correct? We are, yeah. So I was there the day he came in for his interview. He had to go talk to Lorne Michaels about. Before you get hired, you have to have this one last interview with Lorne Michaels. And Lorne had this office that was right above the studio. We would all write up on the 17th floor, but then the studio is on the 8th floor and on the 9th floor there's this small office that Lauren had. And he would, you know, he'd make people Wait a long time. And I kept noticing this guy sitting, you know, he was a real young Chris Farley, and he was sitting on this couch wearing, like a.

[Travis Kelsey]

A.

[Conan O'Brien]

Like a blue blazer and a tie, and he's being so crisp. He was just waiting for his big shot to talk to Lauren. And I'm a writer there. And I noticed after a while, like, this poor guy's been waiting a long time. And someone said, oh, that's Chris. He's probably gonna be a cast member, but he has to have his interview with Lauren. So I told Chris, let's take a walk, buddy. I'm Conan. He's like, oh, hey. Hey, how are you? Oh, you know. You know, bowing and like, oh, oh. And I'm like, hey, let's take a walk. I'll show you around. So I walked him around the studio on 8, and I was doing this bit where if a guy was raising, you know, a boom mic, I would shout out like I was in charge of him, and I would shout out like I was the boss. But if he was already raising the boon mic, I'd be like, get that boon mic up. Let's go get that boom mic up. Let's have it now, Charlie. And his name wasn't even Charlie. I didn't even know his name. I'd be like, come on, Charlie.

[Jason Kelsey]

Hi.

[Conan O'Brien]

With the boom mic. And Chris was laughing. And then Chris started doing it. And so we walked around just doing this bit for about 20 minutes, shouting at people to do the thing they were already doing. And then he ends up having his interview with Lauren, which obviously went well. And then he was just such. He was that guy. He would always. You meet people in comedy who were kind of serious when they're not doing it, and then they turn it on. And I've always really related to the people that do it 24 7. And that was Chris. I mean, Chris. You'd see him in the hallway, and you could, like, pretend to hit him in the stomach, and he would double over, and then he'd his go into a character, and it was that all the time. It was really joyous.

[Travis Kelsey]

You just fed that to my bow, to my heart and my bones. We love Farley, man. We grew up on. On. On that. And I can only imagine how amazing it was to actually be around the guy, even off camera and everything.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, it makes sense that you two would click right away, because I feel like both of you are very physical comedians, right? There was a lot of, like. Like, body motion and, like, physicality to the humor, I guess, that probably does lend itself to, like, if you're like that, you're probably like that off air as well. Like, it's probably hard to turn that on.

[Conan O'Brien]

I would assume I'm one of six kids, and I grew up in an environment, and we were all born, like, you know, practically within months of each other. We defied science. It's the Irish Catholic way.

[Jason Kelsey]

Irish six tuplets.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, exactly. And so there was a lot of physicality just growing up. I mean, I have. We have dogs and cats, and I just see them on the floor rolling around. They're playing. But if you didn't know any better, it looks like they're fighting, but they're not. They're playing. They're like soft mouth, but they're like, kind of biting each other and cuffing each other and rolling around on the floor and making noise. And that's how I grew up. And I'm very much still that way. I, I, I like to be, for better or worse, very physical around people. And I'm constantly. Now that I'm no spring chicken, but for years I would. I immediately want to do any bit that involves me jumping through something, you know, like a fake glass or taking a fall or making a leap. I just love that stuff. And now I'm 62 years old, and I still like doing that stuff. And so I'll come up with an idea where I do that, and the people, the professionals will say, well, no, we're gonna have to get a stunt guy. And I lose it. I say, no, the only reason I want to do this is I want to jump through the window. I want to get tackled. But I want, you know, that's the stuff I want to go through.

[Travis Kelsey]

This table.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, I want to go through this table. And, you know, I'll figure out the rest later. Meaning if something breaks, we'll figure it out, you know. But that is very much the kind of thing I've always liked a lot. And so I don't seem to be adjusting for age. And that's probably going to go very badly at some point, but.

[Travis Kelsey]

No, no, not if you just keep living young. You're good.

[Conan O'Brien]

Okay, so the doctors are wrong.

[Jason Kelsey]

We'll get you some Toradol. You'll be fine. You'll be good.

[Travis Kelsey]

It's all precautionary.

[Conan O'Brien]

Jason. What is it called?

[Jason Kelsey]

Toradol. It was a big. They used to inject it, and then there was a lawsuit.

[Travis Kelsey]

Well, you can still get the injection.

[Conan O'Brien]

So you're saying that I qualify for an injection of a drug that you're

[Travis Kelsey]

going to go back to your 40s.

[Jason Kelsey]

We would be honored to host you to Bill's Mafia, Buffalo, New York. We're going to inject you with some Toradol and we're going to send you through a flaming table. I think you'd be very excited for this guy.

[Conan O'Brien]

I'm not kidding. I will promise you this right now on the air. I'll meet you anywhere, anytime. I want a professional doctor to inject me with Toradol, and then I will jump through something. I promise you. This is not a bit I'm here on record. I think that would be so much fun.

[Jason Kelsey]

Let's go.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. And then my wife will take all of you, all of us to court, me included. That would be so much fun to do that, though. I mean, I'm giddy just thinking about it. This is going to happen. It's going to happen. We're going to shoot it, we're going to be video. It's going to go viral, and then you guys can come visit me in the hospital.

[Travis Kelsey]

I'm just going to say the Chiefs do play in Buffalo next year.

[Jason Kelsey]

We know we're on borrowed time here. We're gonna do our last segment. We gotta ask. All right.

[Conan O'Brien]

Are you kidding? I will spend. I will spend the week with you. I would rather do this than any of the Osprey.

[Jason Kelsey]

Seriously, do not send me back into the room with him.

[Conan O'Brien]

This is the most fun I've had in a while, and I'm not.

[Jason Kelsey]

Let's go.

[Conan O'Brien]

So I'm very happy.

[Jason Kelsey]

All right. Of all the guests you've had on Late Night or the pod, who is your favorite?

[Conan O'Brien]

There are different kinds of guests that are great in different ways, but I think a guy who was a true artist was Norm MacDonald.

[Jason Kelsey]

There it is. We had a little $50 bet going on ourselves if it was going to be Norm or not.

[Travis Kelsey]

Absolute legend, man.

[Conan O'Brien]

And if I mentioned Norm, I've got to say there's also, I mean, Will Ferrell, when he would come on completely in character and, you know, as a leprechaun and a thong. I mean, so it's not that there's one winner, but the reason I mentioned Norm is that nobody did what he did and no one ever can again. I do think he was uniquely able. He would come out and just tell these stories that were total bullshit. And you knew from the get go it was total bullshit. And he'd be like, you know, I'd say, norm, how's it going? I said, I'm pretty good, Conan. I, you know, I'm a, I got a farm. And I'd be thinking, he doesn't have a fucking farm. But I'd go, you know, Cause you're the interviewer. I'd be like, oh, you have a fucking. I got a farm. And I got, I got three daughters, Conan. And I'd be thinking, what? And, But I go, like, three daughters? Yeah, yeah. Each one, each one prettier than the next. And one day a traveling salesman. Yeah, yeah, traveling salesman. And you think, oh, he's just telling a joke from 1942 and he's pretending this really happened to him. And it's performance art. I'm telling you, when I walk around in the world, people, people like, come out of the woodwork and say, oh, my God, Norm MacDonald. This time he was on that time he was on, this other time he was on. And I just think that there's, I think people are going to be talking about that guy 50 years from now. You know, I think he, he 100% he. And you know, and the way he told jokes and he was completely fearless.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's the thing. He was always so smooth, man. Did you ever have an underrated guest, like, so, like a sneaky guest that was kind of your fave that nobody would.

[Conan O'Brien]

I mean, there's so many different guests that would come on and defy the label, you know, and there are people that can come on where, you know, they're known for being, you know, incredibly good looking and. Or you think, oh, this person's going to be this type. I shot something once with Tom Cruise in London where we're driving around together. He was so great comedically and naturally funny. And I have to admit, I had put him in a little bit of a box of, well, he's an action star guy, so he probably doesn't, you know, he won't be like the funniest person. And he was, he was really great and he played it perfectly and he had really good ideas. And I thought, well, that's on me. I put him in a box. I thought, you know, he's great at hanging onto the wing of a plane and delivering like a great action line, but there's no way he can. I mean, I'm not expecting him to be funny in this way. And he was 100. That. That and more. And I'm sure you guys have experienced this doing the podcast, which is you, you'll talk to someone and you think, well, this, you know, okay, they're going to be really Fascinating. But they're not going to be X, Y or Z. And then they are a thousand times over. So we all make. We all form biases. We all form like, okay, I'm going to talk to these, you know, these guys and this is what we're going to talk about. And, and no, you're completely wrong. There's. People will surprise you every time I

[Travis Kelsey]

share that same story. Ironically, in London with Tom Cruise. He, he just, he was one of the funniest down to earth guys. And it's just, you just don't. You don't think to put him in really. You don't ever want to put anybody in a bubble, but it's just like, you don't think of it as that. And he really did. He really was just the best guy. Do you have, do you have like a favorite joke of all time?

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, man, no. There's too many. There have been too many. I don't think there could be one joke that I would say is my, you know, I have bits I've done that I really love. I once, you know, we found out that there was a. We found out that there was a league that played baseball and they played with 18. 1875 rules, like literally the same way.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's one of my favorite bits I've ever seen.

[Conan O'Brien]

They dressed like it was 1875 and they, they called the ball the apple, which is something that they really did in 1875. Did like, you know, pitch the apple. And they talked in that. So I showed up and I got into this insane costume and a fake, like, handlebar mustache. And I just became one of those guys. I literally became one of those guys. And I was such an asshole. And I was taunting the pitcher and saying, hurl the apple. Hurl the apple. And making like, weird jokes that would have been from the 1870s. And the guy got irritated, so he whipped one really close, really close to my head. And I ducked. And then I dropped the bat and I come after him and I start putting my fists up.

[Travis Kelsey]

It's the only way somebody fights with a handlebar mustache.

[Conan O'Brien]

When I do fight both of you in a parking lot, which will happen because I'll be. I'll be whacked out on Toradol.

[Jason Kelsey]

That's right.

[Conan O'Brien]

I was about to say it will be this style and I'll get a few pops in before you rip my torso into two pieces and candy comes out.

[Jason Kelsey]

It's got good reach. Good reach on you.

[Conan O'Brien]

I love those moments. There are moments where I don't even know I'm doing comedy. I'm. And you guys talk about it, too. It's when you said you. It's the blackout moments. Those are the moments that the. Are. The ultimate high for me is when you're doing your thing and it feels easy and you're not even thinking about it, and then it's over. And people say, oh, that was great. And you go, I don't even know what happened. That's. That's what I live for.

[Jason Kelsey]

This isn't in the rundown. But I do want to ask you this, because I'm always fascinated with people that are writers and also just naturally inherently funny. And you can just go, like, you're talking about, like, blackout. They just kind of are riffing. In football, it's very easy. Like, hey, like, if you practice running routes versus specific coverage. Like, yeah. You know, where the open space is. You know, structurally, what is. Is there, like, a structure that you hone or practice in the world of comedy that makes you able to riff and kind of just be like that. That all the time?

[Conan O'Brien]

I don't think I've ever seen them written out, but there are certain structures that get passed on from time to time, and you mostly learn it through. You grow up and you look at what's making me laugh. Like, you know, I would. I would. I took from everything. I mean, I learned from, you know, really funny movies, like the Clouseau movies with Peter Sellers, but also, you know, Warner Brothers cartoons and also, you know, TV shows I really loved. And you'd pick up on different funny people you'd see on Johnny Carson, and you'd notice a certain rhythm, and it just kind of gets into your bones. And so it's not so much like there's a textbook anywhere. I'd be very suspicious of any book that said, make sure the joke always hits on the three. Make sure that, you know, like, I would be suspicious of that. But I do think you pick up on things and then just through trial and error, and, I mean, not even in front of people, but so much trial and error happens in comedy anyway. Happens first when you're a kid, around your parents and your brothers and sisters, then in school, then it happens just out in life. You're constantly seeing and adjusting and learning on some level. But there's no book. No one can write it out in chalk on a board and with X's and o's, and then you cut left or cut right. But it's one of those things that you learn just by doing over and over and over again, and it kind of just sinks in to your bones. Yeah, I think that is. That is because I don't. I. You know, the minute someone presents me with a structure, I would be. It would bum me out, you know, I think you always want to be able to surprise yourself in a moment, man.

[Travis Kelsey]

You're giving us all types of nuggets of golds here, man.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, and it makes sense because I think comedy so much is about doing and saying the unexpected. So the moment you try to put structure to it, like, it's like, okay, you're. You're taking away. The part that kind of makes it funny is by setting something up and then veering in a direction that nobody anticipates you going in.

[Conan O'Brien]

Whenever people try and analyze comedy, I think it just disappears. Like, it suddenly turns into the most boring conversation because you're trying to grab smoke, you know, and you're like, I've got the smoke. But then you open your hand and it's not there. That's a good analogy, but I mean, that's kind of how it. It feels. It's just there are so many things that are mysterious to me, and I kind of never want to know how they work.

[Travis Kelsey]

Well, you got another stage you're hidden this year, and it's in a commencement speech at har.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Travis Kelsey]

How. How. How are you feeling about that?

[Jason Kelsey]

How.

[Travis Kelsey]

How did that come about?

[Conan O'Brien]

I get a lot of energy and inspiration from young people. So that's the thing that's exciting to me about it, is I. I always feel like I'm a little bit like a vampire in that I like being around young people that are optimistic because it's really easy to get cynical or to start, you know, feeling like you've seen it all and what. You know, you can just enter a phase of your life where it's easy to go down that road. And to me, the antidote is be around young people. And a lot of times you. You talk to them and you think, oh, wow, these people are really smart. They. They seem to get it. They've got a lot of energy. I think we're in good shape going forward. You know, it's easy. People get very, you know, dour about the future, especially adults and older adults. And when you're around younger people, you can kind of feel like the world is in good hands.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Kelsey]

Well, you've been best, but you've been blessed with great length. Conan, you're six foot four. We've talked about your imposing physical stature. Have you ever attempted to Dunk a basketball?

[Conan O'Brien]

Yes. Yes, I have.

[Jason Kelsey]

How did it go?

[Conan O'Brien]

Well, the ensuing surgeries took six years. There was a total reconstruction of my arms. Had to be completely rebuilt from the ground up.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, no. Well, your arms look great.

[Conan O'Brien]

I was one of those late bloomers. So it's like late high school. I start to shoot up, and I'm still growing. I think when I go to college and I'm 6 4, and people would see me and go, wow, you must. You must be a great. People are always throwing me a basketball and saying, let's go. You know, I bet you're amazing. And I would have to explain to them that height is one of the things that helps in basketball. There are some other ones. Natural ability, coordination. Caring. Caring about where the ball is. Focus. And when I would play basketball, which I liked to do, and I would always do bits the whole time I was playing basketball, that's all I'm thinking

[Jason Kelsey]

of in my head right now.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. And when I'd play stickball, too, we would go. There was a place that had a wall, and we spray painted like a, you know, rectangle on it for the strike zone. And you'd use a. You'd use a really thin bat and tennis balls. And I would always announce who my character was and explain my character before I got up to the plate. And there'd be. I mean, there'd be people that were laughing and there'd be other people that were like, jesus Christ, what do we. And I'd be like, okay, this next guy just got out of prison. He went, this is a real guy. I had a character whose name was Nikki Fisk, who was the most hated man in baseball. And I'd say, now Nikki Fisk is up at the plate. He just got out of prison. He did two years for manslaughter because in a rage, he threw his bat into the stands, killing an old woman. Fans hate him. You know, he's been banned from the sport, but he's back tonight. Nicky Fish. And they'd be like, can't you just play the game?

[Travis Kelsey]

This is the game.

[Conan O'Brien]

Thank you. This is the much more important game. That's the game I was obsessed with. And Bob Odenkirk and I lived in Chicago, and we did a comedy show there once years and years ago when we were in our early 20s. And he and I would go to shoot baskets, and I would pull my shirt up and put it over my face so that you couldn't. I couldn't see. And I had my shirt over my face and I would say, I'm the Phantom. A guy who magically shows up at a basketball court and I'm the Phantom. And then I would try to play with my shirt over my face and stop. And of course, Bob would go into, ah, Phantom. Maybe if you took the mask off, no one can know my identity. And so people would pat this in Chicago, on the north side, people would pass this idiot with this, and I'd be. I'd be missing not just the rim, but I would be missing. I wouldn't even. I mean, I'd just be throwing the ball up into the street because I can't see. But that was more interesting to me than actually trying to get the ball in the hoop.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's fucking good, man.

[Conan O'Brien]

If I played for, like, the Eagles or the Chiefs for one day, the coaches would have blood coming out their ears because they'd say, all right, guys, let's go. We're gonna run this formation. I'd say, hold on, hold on. My name is Giuseppe Aldardo. I come from Italy and be like, what the hell? What's he doing? You know?

[Travis Kelsey]

It's fucking gold, though, man. To be honest, though, that's. You need some of that in every. In every, like, building every workplace. Like, you need that ability to just be. Let everybody be themselves and as long as you're being productive. But I. I would have fucking died to be a part of any of those fucking games.

[Conan O'Brien]

Keep it in mind, because I know, you know, you just signed up again, Travis. So if you want to, I'll come into the locker room if you guys are getting. Your ass is kicked. I'll come into the locker room, you know, at halftime, and I'll. I'll, you know, I'll be a character. Boy, will people get pissed. You'll be laughing. But everyone else will be, get him the fuck out of here.

[Travis Kelsey]

Oh, I can't wait to bring that to Coach Reed.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, tell him. Oh, I bet he's going to be all over that.

[Travis Kelsey]

We got one last question. Do you have a welcome to Hollywood moment? Conan?

[Conan O'Brien]

That's a good question. Let's see a welcome to Hollywood, Mo. Yeah, I'm gonna say that's a great. I came out, I grew up in Boston, went to school in Boston, and then went right to LA in 1985. I'm 22 years old, and I thought, because I didn't know anything. I mean, you know, I was such a rube. I was such a naive guy. And so my writing partner and I, this guy Greg Daniels, we were like, hey, let's go. Hollywood. We rented a hotel, a hotel room, because we needed a place to stay and we need, you know, when we got started. So we rented a really cheap hotel in Hollywood because I thought Hollywood was where all the stars lived and it was going to be really fancy, and I couldn't believe how cheap this hotel room was. So Greg and I fly out on this really cheap flight. It was called People's Express. This is before you're. You guys aren't even born yet, but

[Travis Kelsey]

still, still, still ripping cigs on the plane or what?

[Conan O'Brien]

Oh, my. It was just, It was just literally. This is in the day where you don't need a reservation. You barely have to show your ID. You show up, you give him like, $60 and they throw you in this cattle car. That's an airplane. And you fly across the country. And we land and we go, and the sun is setting, and we get to our little tiny place in Hollywood, like with a Bunsen burner, you know, and then we go out, we should get something to eat, and we start walking around. And we're walking down Hollywood Boulevard on, like, a Saturday night. And it is not what I thought it is. You know, I mean, it's strip clubs. It's really depressing, cheesy. There's. It's just. It is, it is the mo. And we're walking around, and when I said I'm a young 22, I was 22, but I was 6 4. I was 158 pounds. Oh, my God, I was so skinny. And I was at that age where anything I ate just dissolved into. It just became nervous energy and hair. So I'm walking around and I'm getting propositioned by men, women. There's, like neon blinking. There's trash everywhere. There's needles on the sidewalk. And I was like, you know, where's Harrison Ford? Where's Halle Berry?

[Jason Kelsey]

This is frightening.

[Conan O'Brien]

So, yeah, I had a real quick education that, that. No, I, I'm not gonna, not going to be hanging out on Hollywood and Vine at night unless I become a male prostitute, which is still a goal of mine.

[Jason Kelsey]

That future is still, still there for the taking. Conan, honestly, this is. This has been outstanding. We can't thank you enough.

[Travis Kelsey]

My face hurts, man. You are the. You're the best, brother. We can't thank you for the time. The stories are epic and wishing you nothing but the best, man.

[Conan O'Brien]

I want to thank you because I've never appeared cooler to my staff than. And I've got two fans over here who are losing their Shit. And also, I'll say this on a sincere note. You're both really funny, really nice people, and that comes through, and that's huge. And so I'm just overjoyed to get to talk to both of you, seriously. And, you know, stay healthy, be good, and anytime, Jason, you need your kids to be screamed at, you know, wait till your wife's out of town.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yeah, right. Yeah.

[Conan O'Brien]

Wait till the wife is out of town.

[Jason Kelsey]

Yes.

[Conan O'Brien]

Yeah. All right. This has been a joy, guys.

[Travis Kelsey]

The best dude, ladies and gentlemen. You're the best.

[Jason Kelsey]

All right, that does it for Conan. Did not disappoint. Did not disappoint.

[Travis Kelsey]

Just electric man.

[Jason Kelsey]

We've been trying to make that episode happen for a long time. And, you know, he's just like a legend in our eyes from growing up watching him, the fact that he's still

[Travis Kelsey]

freaking just like, dude, it's so killing

[Jason Kelsey]

it in every way. He's gonna host the Oscars and that we're gonna get to see him jump through a table. Bill's mafia. It sounds like on tour at all. Jay Z, you could not be more thrilled with that. I'm definitely doing tour at all. If I'm jumping through another table table,

[Travis Kelsey]

I want to see it. All righty.

[Jason Kelsey]

That wraps up another episode of New Heights. Thank you to Conan o' Brien for being here. You can watch Conan host the Oscars this Sunday, even though Brian needs a friend. Releases every Monday and Thursday. Oh, and make sure you subscribe to the new Heist channel on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.

[Travis Kelsey]

That's right. Once again, New Heights, a wondry show brought to you by Hills Pet Nutrition. Get those little furry friends of yours or non furry friends of yours the healthiest food that they can get so they can live to be big, strong boys or girls. Follow the show on all social media at new heights show with 1s. And thanks to our production team, our New Heights production team, and all the 92 percenters out there, we wouldn't do this without you, I promise. See you guys next week.

[Jason Kelsey]

I do got to say, the moment you said the thing about cats growing up, I knew you were going to be a Will Ferrell fan. That that audition for SNL where he's playing with the make believe cat. It's one of my favorite things of all time.

[Conan O'Brien]

That's a guy who. And talk about a guy who's doing it 24 7. He and I were on a flight once cross country. Like, you know, they sat us next to each other on a. On a. On a red eye.

[Travis Kelsey]

I can only imagine.

[Conan O'Brien]

We did it a bit the whole time. I never once asked him, how are you? How's your wife? How's your life? He never once asked me. We did a bit that lasted six hours.

[Travis Kelsey]

Let's go.

[Jason Kelsey]

How does that start? You just, like, immediately go. And they just. And. And Will just knows you're doing a bit.

[Conan O'Brien]

I see Will's dead eyes. He's got the eyes of a doll. The shark size right out of Jaws. He's just got those dead eyes. And he's looking at me. And I started to talk to him about my love of books and. Because I had a book in my lap. And we both went into these characters who talked for six hours as if they love books, but neither one of them could read. That was the joke. Flight attendants are coming, and we're, like, waving them off. And, like, I could have just had a fatal diagnosis, but I wouldn't have told him, because we're in this now. You know what I mean? So stupid.