New Rory & MAL – Best of Rory & Mal: Week of 10/20

Release Date: October 27, 2025
Podcast by: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

Episode Overview

This "Best Of" episode captures a week’s worth of the sharp, humorous, and opinionated banter that Rory, Mal, Dakota, Josh, and guest Justin bring to topics ranging from music industry practices (with a nearly philosophical Taylor Swift album variant debate), to candid insights on artist collaborations and heartbreak, and a breakdown of the NBA’s explosive gambling scandal. As always, the conversation jumps between hot takes, industry insider knowledge, and the group’s trademark unfiltered storytelling.

Main Topics & Key Discussion Points

1. The Taylor Swift Album Variants Controversy

[02:50 – 12:44]

• Twitter's Double Standards & Russ's Defense:
  The group discusses the social media discourse around Taylor Swift releasing multiple album variants, noting that other artists do it but only Taylor is labeled "greedy."

  • "Whenever Taylor releases a new album, all of a sudden the discourse of album variants comes into play..." – Josh [02:59]
  • Russ’s defense on Twitter is cited: if artists can sell shirts in different colors, why not albums with different covers?

• Consumer Choice vs. Manipulation:
  Consensus emerges that giving fans choices isn’t unethical, especially when "no one's forcing anybody to buy 10 different variants from Taylor Swift." – Josh [03:47]

  • Rory argues, "I'm never going to get mad at Taylor Swift being so good at creating a cult that they'll buy multiple versions of the same album if that's what they want to do." [04:05]

• Numbers Manipulation & Impact on Artists:
  Dakota introduces the argument about variant/deluxe releases skewing charts, which can prevent other artists from hitting No. 1.

  • "Taylor's going to number one anyway. But releasing deluxes, deluxes, deluxes... may keep somebody else from getting a number one on a country chart or R&B chart or Billboard 200. So that does affect other people." – Dakota [05:52]

• Fans and Fandoms:
  Rory emphasizes chart numbers don’t impact everyday fans: "Like nothing is going to change because of the numbers." [07:24] Still, for young fans, Dakota points out, concern over "manipulating a younger fanbase to continue to spend money" is valid. Rory’s response: "That’s the parents’ fault." [07:53]

• Ethics of Monetizing a Fanbase:
  The team debates creator guilt vs. consumer agency, with Dakota reframing: "You’re not holding a gun to their head... they find it valuable or not, and it's up to them to spend their money on it." [08:22]

• Final Thoughts:
  Both appreciate the vinyl and collector culture as a positive evolution for artists; direct-to-consumer strategies are "part of being a fan and a consumer." [11:40]

2. R&B Collaboration vs. Rap Collaboration

[17:27 – 21:17]

• Rappers vs. R&B Community:
  Rory opens the discussion on why rappers are perceived as non-collaborative, when in truth R&B artists rarely work together within their own "graduating class." [17:27]

• Guest Justin’s Creative Reflections:
  Justin expresses nostalgia and mild regret over the lack of unity: "We started alternative R&B. There was no category for that... It is a shame to think that we never really did [collaborate]."* – Justin [18:39]

• Historical Context & Production Approach:
  Rory reflects that, historically, being in the same sessions led to more natural collaborations, whereas today’s R&B artists are vision-driven and hands-on with production, making joint work trickier.

• The Songwriter’s Dilemma:
  Justin muses on why "killer verses" work in rap but not so much for singers, given the holistic approach to songwriting in R&B.

3. Artist Heartbreak: Meeting Your Idols & Creative Regrets

[21:17 – 27:57]

• Justin on Working with Pharrell (and Regret):
  Justin candidly describes his experience and missed creative connection with Pharrell during the "Kaleidoscope Dream" era.

  • "I just wish I would have locked in with him more because he's a hero of mine... I just wasn't ready for that." – Justin [23:29][23:59]

• On Young Artists with Strong Vision:
  The group affirms that being uncompromising as an artist is commendable, citing Jid leaving an Eminem verse off an album as evidence of creative integrity.

• Pharrell’s Foresight:
  Justin admits Pharrell was ahead of his time in urging him to lean into his Latin heritage, and years later, Justin recognizes he wasn't ready then, though he is now. "[Pharrell] was coaching, you know... I just wasn't ready." – Justin [27:57]

4. NBA Gambling & Fixing Scandal

[28:32 – 47:07]

• The Breaking News:
  The crew unpacks recent arrests of former NBA players and coaches—including Chauncey Billups and Terry Rozier—in a mafia-linked gambling investigation.

  • "We have Damon Jones being arrested. We have Chauncey Billups being arrested. We have Terry Rozier, whose situation is separate, but it's still a gambling arrest." – Josh [30:16]

• Gilbert Arenas as a Whistleblower:
  Discussion turns to former NBA player Gilbert Arenas, who publicly joked he’d cooperate with the feds: "I didn't Snitch yet. I didn't cooperate, but I will." – Josh, quoting Gilbert [30:48]

• The Mechanics of Scandal:
  Details emerge about players leaking insider info (e.g. injuries) to organized crime, fixing prop bets, and point shaving.

  • "The defendants leveraged their connections to place prop bets... winning tens of thousands of dollars per bet." – Josh [32:22]
  • "Apparently, Damon Jones was just letting the Mob know about LeBron's ankle." – Rory [33:16]

• NBA-Wide Implications:
  The case implicates 30 people—including mafia members—across 11 states, and involves complex schemes such as shuffling machines at underground poker games.

• Sports Integrity & Hall of Fame:
  The hosts debate whether players caught in such scandals should lose Hall of Fame eligibility. Rory draws a line: "If you throw... get the fuck out of the hall of Fame. But if you bet on yourself, I think that should be cool." [44:38]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Taylor Swift's Fan Power:
  "I'm never going to get mad at Taylor Swift being so good at creating a cult that they will buy multiple versions of the same album if that's what they want to do." – Rory [04:05]

• On Manipulated Chart Numbers:
  "If you have the ability to create a fan base that will buy multiple products from you, I don't think there's anything to condemn there." – Rory [04:23]

• Parental Responsibility:
  "That's the parents fault. If Amara comes and says, I want three versions of the same Taylor Swift album. Amara, you're getting one." – Rory [07:53]

• On Working with Pharrell:
  "I just wish I would have locked in with him more because he's a hero of mine... but I just wanted to go a different direction." – Justin [23:29–25:03]

• On NBA Scandal Transparency:
  "This is just a trickle now, because if you remember, Gilbert Arenas was arrested a few months ago by the FBI... He said, I'm not gonna be there. When it's starting to go. Cause, yeah, I'm snitching now. Gilbert's words..." – Josh [30:50]
  "Do you think that's why the FBI called this operation Nothing But Net?" – Rory [31:28]

• Player Complicity:
  "[Ref Tim Donaghy] said in an interview that he believed every single ref was involved with some form of gambling or point shaving decisions." – Rory [40:25]

• Sports & Integrity:
  “If you've done anything to jeopardize the integrity of the sport... I think that is something to look at and be like, that might get you kicked out of the Hall of Fame.” – Josh [44:00]
  “I agree, but I do feel like Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame because he bet on himself.” – Rory [44:38]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Taylor Swift Album Variants & Music Consumerism: 02:50 – 12:44
• R&B Collaboration vs. Rap: 17:27 – 21:17
• Creative Regret & Pharrell Story: 21:17 – 27:57
• NBA Gambling & Scandal Deep Dive: 28:32 – 47:07

Tone & Flow

The episode crackles with the hosts’ mix of sharp takes, dry humor, and openness about the complexities of fame, fandom, creativity, and the dark underbelly of professional sports. Their chemistry keeps the pace quick and the listener engaged, whether breaking down accusations against Taylor Swift or riffing on the mafia's infiltration of the NBA.

For listeners who missed this episode:
This "Best Of" delivers the quintessential Rory & Mal vibe: bold opinions, real insights into music and sports, unfiltered humor, and the rare ability to turn industry drama into relatable conversations about money, power, and culture.