Best of Rory & Mal: Week of 4/14

Summary

Podcast Summary: Best of Rory & MAL: Week of 4/14

Release Date: April 20, 2025

Introduction

In the "Best of Rory & MAL: Week of 4/14" episode of New Rory & MAL, hosted by iHeartPodcasts and The Volume, Rory and Maul delve into a variety of engaging topics ranging from music industry controversies to the dynamics of white rappers in hip-hop. The episode also features an insightful interview with acclaimed director Ryan Coogler, who discusses his upcoming film "Sinners" and shares his perspectives on maintaining a successful podcast amidst industry challenges.

---

1. Kerry Hilson vs. Beyoncé: Career Impact and Controversies (03:19 - 12:00)

Rory and Maul open with a deep dive into the long-standing debate surrounding Kerry Hilson's alleged diss track directed at Beyoncé. They dissect the myth that Beyoncé's career was adversely affected by Kerry Hilson's actions, exploring the role of publicists and industry power plays.

• Rory criticizes the lingering myth: “Beyoncé had some New Orleans Creole voodoo that just stopped her career at that time” (04:25).
• Maul counters by emphasizing Beyoncé's unwavering status: “I can promise you Beyoncé didn't have anything shut down for K.” (04:48).
• Discussion extends to Esther Dean’s role in songwriting and how creative pressures might have influenced Hilson’s career decisions.

The hosts examine the complexities of artist-publicist relationships and the impact of behind-the-scenes decisions on public perception, ultimately questioning the validity of blame placed on Hilson for Beyoncé's sustained success.

---

2. The Mount Rushmore of White Rappers: Analogies and Debates (12:00 - 25:00)

Transitioning to a lighter yet thought-provoking topic, Rory and Maul engage in a lively debate about the "Mount Rushmore of White Rappers," evaluating figures like Eminem, Mac Miller, Paul Wall, and newer artists such as Jack Harlow and Machine Gun Kelly.

• Rory suggests iconic figures: “Only the best. For the best.” (03:12).
• They humorously discuss the inclusion of artists like Kid Rock and House of Pain, debating their influence and legacy.
• The conversation underscores the scarcity of white rappers who have achieved both credibility and longevity in the genre, highlighting the challenges they face in a predominantly Black industry.

This segment blends humor with critical analysis, reflecting on the cultural and artistic contributions of white rappers while questioning the criteria for their inclusion among hip-hop’s elite.

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3. Guest Interview: Ryan Coogler on "Sinners" and Podcast Challenges (27:11 - 58:00)

The highlight of the episode is an exclusive interview with Ryan Coogler, renowned director of "Black Panther" and "Creed," who joins to discuss his new movie "Sinners" and the behind-the-scenes struggles of maintaining the podcast.

• Gary introduces Coogler: “Trust no one. Because this movie has a lot to do with paranoia.” (27:43).
• Coogler elaborates on the film’s themes, focusing on brotherhood, loyalty, and fate, stating, “The voices of the show, the energy is the show.” (28:11).
• The conversation shifts to operational challenges, particularly issues with the podcast’s landlord and the impact on the show’s continuity:
  • Coogler expresses frustration: “I found out a lot of things in real time with everybody else. I knew the lights were off, okay?” (52:50).
  • Rory urges better communication: “Maybe the leader should keep the team involved in some of what's going on.” (65:58).
  • Coogler maintains a detached stance, emphasizing professionalism and focusing on the show's core energy despite the turmoil.

Coogler provides a candid look into the difficulties of podcast management, underscoring the importance of clear communication and resilience in the face of unexpected disruptions.

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4. Parenting and Fertility Humor Segment (15:06 - 36:19)

In a lighthearted and humorous exchange, Rory, Maul, and Josh explore the absurdities of parenting and fertility, touching on topics like freezing eggs and unconventional parenting roles.

• Josh jokes about freezing his eggs: “I have to start thinking about that. Freezing my eggs.” (30:42).
• Maul humorously rejects the idea of raising a child together: “It just sounds like a terrible idea.” (35:15).
• The trio delves into playful banter about potential parenthood scenarios, balancing humor with relatable discussions about the responsibilities and unpredictability of raising children.

This segment adds a comedic relief to the episode, showcasing the hosts' chemistry and ability to engage listeners with relatable and entertaining conversations.

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5. Nas's Beats and Rap Production Analysis (57:00 - 80:44)

Returning to music, Rory and Maul, alongside Ryan Coogler, analyze Nas's production choices, particularly his selection of beats in classic tracks like "Ether" and "Got Yourself a Gun."

• Coogler recounts interviewing Nas and Nas’s intention behind choosing specific beats: “I wanted people to pay more attention to what I'm saying than what the beat sounds like.” (75:31).
• The discussion critiques the quality of some beats, debating whether Nas’s choices were artistically driven or influenced by industry pressures.
• Rory defends Nas’s creative vision: “Nas took that beat, put his foot in it and created an amazing song.” (80:44).
• The hosts explore the balance between lyrical content and musical accompaniment, emphasizing the importance of cohesive artistry in hip-hop.

This analytical segment provides listeners with a deeper understanding of rap production and the intricate decisions artists like Nas make to prioritize their message over musical trends.

---

6. Conclusion and Closing Remarks

The episode wraps up with continued light-hearted banter and brief mentions of upcoming content.

• Rory and Maul reflect on the episode’s discussions, highlighting the blend of serious analysis and comedic elements that define their show.
• They reiterate the importance of maintaining authenticity and energy, regardless of external challenges.

Notable Quotes:

• Rory (04:25): “Beyoncé had some New Orleans Creole voodoo that just stopped her career at that time.”
• Maul (03:12): “Only the best. For the best.”
• Ryan Coogler (28:11): “The voices of the show, the energy is the show.”
• Josh (30:42): “I have to start thinking about that. Freezing my eggs.”
• Rory (80:44): “Nas took that beat, put his foot in it and created an amazing song.”

Conclusion

This episode of "Best of Rory & MAL" offers a rich tapestry of discussions, blending critical analysis of the music industry with personal anecdotes and humorous exchanges. The inclusion of Ryan Coogler provides added depth, offering listeners an inside look at both the creative process behind a major film and the operational intricacies of running a podcast. Rory and Maul successfully create an engaging narrative that resonates with both dedicated fans and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[Rory]

Ah, come on. Why is this taking so long?

[Maul]

This thing is ancient.

[Rory]

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[Maul]

Whoa, this thing moves.

[Rory]

Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech [e-mail] Lenovo Lenovo unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors. So you you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device.

[Maul]

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[Rory]

Let your shoes do the talking. Designer Shoe Warehouse is packed with fresh styles that speak to your whole vibe without saying a word. From cool sneakers that look good with everything to easy sandals you'll want to wear on repeat, DSW has you covered. Find a shoe for every heel from the brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas, New Balance and more. Head to your DSW store or visit dsw.com today.

[Damaris]

The best moments happen when you're with your people, laughing, vibing and just enjoying life. Coke is making those moments even sweeter. Shera Coke is back and it's all about sharing with the whole crew. Doesn't matter if it's your bestie or bro, there's a can with their name on it. So grab one for the squad and make some memories. But hurry because these Coca Cola limited edition bottles and cans won't be here forever. Don't Miss your chance to share a Coke with all your favorite people.

[Rory]

The volume.

[Walton Goggins]

Remy's.

[Rory]

You.

[Walton Goggins]

I'm Maul.

[Rory]

I am Rory. And we are starting, for the first time, the best of the week. New Rory and Maul.

[Walton Goggins]

Because they need more. Rory and Maul.

[Rory]

All of our amazing moments. We understand people are busy. If it gets to those weeks. On Sundays, you can come right here and get the best of what happened from this entire week, Monday through Sunday.

[Walton Goggins]

The best of us.

[Rory]

Yes.

[Walton Goggins]

The best of me.

[Rory]

The best of me.

[Walton Goggins]

The best of me.

[Rory]

Yes.

[Walton Goggins]

Because there's two of us.

[Rory]

Pressure bus pipes.

[Walton Goggins]

Exactly. Every Sunday. Best of us, best ofs. Best of Rory. Maul.

[Rory]

Best of us.

[Walton Goggins]

The best of us. We're giving you the best of us. Yeah. Only the best. This is only for the best. For the best.

[Rory]

Peace. Drop that beat.

[Ryan Coogler]

New Rory and Miles.

[Rory]

So, yeah, Gary Olsen was on the Breakfast Club, and of course, they brought up the infamous Kerry Hilson Beyonce disc. But that's been, like, kind of a myth that's never really been addressed for over a decade. I feel like now the tournament on Remix where Kerry Hilson had the bars. Because you're turning me off. Your vision cloudy. If you think that you're the best. You can dance, you can sing, but you need to move it to the left. To the left. Coincidence, right?

[Walton Goggins]

I think so.

[Josh]

I think the not you, trick ass.

[Rory]

I think they were only thinking that's.

[Walton Goggins]

How you feel about Carrie.

[Josh]

No, that's a. It's. That's a meme. Sorry. I think the not you, trick ass is a meme, not Carrie. Sorry.

[Rory]

But Carrie Olson said it's a regret.

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, is it, Carrie? Is it? Did you regret that?

[Rory]

I'm not gonna let y'all do that. Because, yes, that was a big pivot in her career.

[Walton Goggins]

I thought it was. I thought. I mean, naturally, you know, I understand how fan bases turned and, you know, you go, anybody going at, you know, Beyonce. This is how it probably would turn out for you, especially if you're an artist.

[Rory]

Well, you couldn't really clock fan bases at that time. It was. Everything was on the Internet, so the myth really became that, like, Beyonce had some, like, New Orleans Creole voodoo that just stopped her career at that time. That's what the fans think. But I'm sure there was some stuff behind the scenes, like, let's not act like artists don't do that when they have power. Just shut certain down.

[Walton Goggins]

I can promise you Beyonce didn't have anything shut down for K. Oh, I.

[Rory]

Don'T think Beyonce did either, but I'm not saying people close to Beyonce didn't.

[Walton Goggins]

I mean, I don't know, man. I think people put too much into that.

[Rory]

Publicist used to have a lot of power. Let's not act like back in the day, publicists didn't. Were not right next to the CEO of the label. As far as who could push what button. I could see a publicist doing that. All right, you want to play as far as.

[Josh]

That's with anything, though, when you have. When you're as successful as Beyonce was in 09, and I would have to. Josh, can you look up what of Beyonce's was out during 09? If you say, oh. If you. If the team goes, oh, if you work with this person, I won't work with this person. When it comes. I mean, we won't work with you anymore. Whether it comes to producers, songwriters, anybody. Like, yeah, a lot of those reference.

[Rory]

Tracks and all those ideas you were being sent in the fucking boatload of CDs. Slows up.

[Josh]

Oh, that was Single Ladies time Clipped.

[Rory]

Hang it up flat screen. Let's not act like Kerry Wilson was not at least a big factor at that time.

[Josh]

No, Carrie Hilson was here.

[Rory]

And first of all, that record did work outside of the. The disc record.

[Josh]

Like, the remix didn't even work. Like, nobody really paid attention to remix, though. The Turning Me on regular song was.

[Rory]

The big one and everyone was remixing it. That was one of the remixes that I think stood out. And let's not act like Carrie wasn't with Polo the Don at the time, who was one of the biggest producers in rap, R and B and pop, who I do not think gets his flowers. He needs to be up there. I wish he did a verse so people, like, could realize what his catalog is. Like. Poladon was one of the best of that era. So she went on to say, but that's not the way people would think, because that's a song I actually didn't write. Those are not my words. If you weren't around for that era, Esther Dean, who's one of the greatest writers of our generation, was writing a lot of the hits at that time, especially with Polo, and she wrote a lot of stuff for Carrie. So she was suggesting everyone was mad at me, but I didn't write it. Carrie, if it worked, would you be saying this? Like, that kind of be my. That's my only issue with Carrie here. If that would have worked and, like.

[Walton Goggins]

Carrie became bigger as a result of that.

[Rory]

Right? Yeah, if it. If it worked the way we saw a 50 disc J. And it was like, it went crazy. Would. Would 50 come be like, no, I didn't even write Wankster. That was someone else. No, it. It didn't work. So now you're going back to a regular thing within pop music. Esther was writing for everyone at that time. You recorded it.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Probably a bunch of takes. Found the one you like the best with the pitch. I understand that you were being pressured by the producer and your team and all that, but you have the final say. Even with the pressure, which I get, you still have the final say. I appreciate the. You're coming back and saying, yo, I regret that. I'm fine with you saying you had pressure from your team, but don't be like, oh, it wasn't even me. I didn't even write it.

[Walton Goggins]

I mean, you sang it. Yeah, but again, I ain't. I like, you know, the way you. You're posing a question, if it worked, would she be saying this? She would need to be saying it if.

[Rory]

If it worked, if someone brought that up. Let's say in this hypothetical. We're not even going to go with that. It destroyed Beyonce's career, because that's a joke, even in a hypothetical. But let's say it made Carrie bigger, and she was doing her Legacy Tour shit, sat with Charlemagne, and he was like, yo, that time when you dissed Beyonce, that was kind of like, launched you to the next level. Do you think she would have went, what's crazy is I didn't even write that? No. She'd be like, yeah, that time was nuts. I was a little nervous. Like, we were dissing someone. That was so big. Yeah, she would have went that route.

[Josh]

Of course, I think she would have still said she regretted it, though, because whether it worked for her or destroyed her career, it was lame because Beyonce hadn't did anything to her.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, as a woman, as a person grow. Yeah, as a person, you grow and you mature, you older. You look back at a lot of shit. Like, that was so unnecessary. Like, yes. I mean, I. I'm not saying she would have said, you know, I didn't. I didn't write it and all of that, but I'm sure she would have still, you know what? 15 years later, 16 years later, something like that. I don't think she would still be standing on that bar. Like, yeah, I said it like, no, that would just be absolutely crazy for her to do that.

[Rory]

Yeah. And I mean, a lot of stuff she put on Polo. Like, I don't know if this is true. My album wasn't out yet. So it was like, you're not coming out if you didn't do this. I made that mistake. Which again, maybe this did happen behind closed doors. But I also don't think a producer like Pole the Don that it already had so much results was like, you have to dis Beyonce or we're not putting you out. Someone had the talent of Kerry Hilson and had record. Like, I find that a little odd too. But then Esther Dean had came out, went on IG and said, you know, I'm not going to read the entire thing, but more or less that she didn't feel great about it either because, you know, it's not against women empowerment and sticking together. But she said she wrote like four or five verses to that submitted all of them wasn't even there. And that's the one they picked. So like, what do you want from me? I gave you a bunch of different versions. That's the one you picked. Then Kerry Hilson replied and said, don't say co wrote everything on there except for three lines that weren't even part of the dis I wrote. You wrote the entire thing. So I. What is Esther Dean supposed to say? It's still co written. Yeah, but I've never seen someone try to take publishing away from themselves.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, but all of this is like people still talking about this.

[Rory]

Give her all the publishers.

[Walton Goggins]

It's Beyonce. I get it. But it's been 15, 16 years, man. Like, do people even really care about this still?

[Josh]

Carrie cares.

[Rory]

It's still. It's still brought up in the uniche community of. Of music lovers.

[Josh]

Every time Carrie Wilson opens her mouth. Carrie Wilson, Carrie Hilson.

[Walton Goggins]

I'm about say who the is Carrie Hilson?

[Josh]

I'm thinking about Sierra. I'm sorry. Anytime Carrie Hilson opens her mouth, people are reminded like, damn, that voodoo really worked. Every single time. It's always bought up every single time she's in any interview, comments, everything. So she knows. She knows it's a big thing. It sucks because it would have nice. It would have been nice to see her have a career. Like a. She had a career, but to have like a longer career. But then again, who's to say if she didn't diss Beyonce that she wouldn't have went away anyway? We always say that.

[Walton Goggins]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Josh]

Like people. Even when people. And this is not. No, I don't even. Actually I'm not even gonna say that. But there are people that have died that people are like, oh, she would have been the biggest Thing. And it's like, you don't know that. We've had so many pop girls that were huge, and then we never heard from them again.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, People love doing that, though. Yo, so and so didn't die. This person wouldn't blow. It's like, fam, that's a lot of dudes that's still alive from the era that ain't, ain't.

[Josh]

And they was that guy.

[Walton Goggins]

A lot of trash music, trash albums, trash. It's like, so we're not gonna just make it seem like that person would have been on top or this. It's like, I hate when people do that. That's just like a talk because you can't prove it because the person's no longer here, unfortunately.

[Rory]

But, I mean, Carrie had Knock you down with Neo and Kanye. Like, I thought that record was.

[Walton Goggins]

No, she has some. Carrie Olson has some records.

[Rory]

Pretty Girl Rock Was Fire.

[Walton Goggins]

She has some records.

[Rory]

Yeah. But one could make the case that it just was never the same after that.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, I get it. I understand.

[Rory]

I think it's cool that you're owning up to it and regretting it. I. I think that type of talk is fine.

[Josh]

Do you think so as far as the Esther Dean. Because Car's thing is like, this. This 16 years. Like, this has been a long time. Why, like, you could have been. Came out and say, oh, Carrie wrote that. Right? That I wrote it. But, I mean, I guess the onus still falls on Carrie, because you knew what that was when you went to the studio and you laid that track down, whether you wrote it or not. So.

[Rory]

And I feel like. And again, no disrespect to Kerry Hilson. I. I think Esther Dean is like, that's the record you're talking about. Like, look at my catalog. You think I even think about that remix at all when I have Drop It Low, Super Bass, Love Suicide, Another Life.

[Walton Goggins]

No, Carrie. Kerry Olson had records.

[Rory]

No, I'm saying from Esther Dean's side. Like, do you think Esther Dean is thinking about that remix?

[Walton Goggins]

No, but you.

[Rory]

His Diamond Records.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, Esther. Esther Dean. I mean, if, you know. You know, a lot of people don't who Esther Dean is. And, you know, like I said, a lot of new people outside and, you know, they don't know. But if you know Esther Dean, you know, she has hits. She's written some of the biggest records that we have that we've heard. So, I mean, I just don't. I just don't like people bringing up, like. Because I. I know Kerry, obviously. She doesn't do a lot of interviews and doing Breakfast Club like you, you kind of figure they are going to bring that up. But I know she wants to get past that. Like, she has to be tired of that just hanging over her.

[Rory]

Oh, for sure.

[Walton Goggins]

Like, you know what I'm saying? It's just like, yeah, she said it. And, you know, whatever. You know, maybe she wanted a back and. Well, she probably did want to back and forth with Beyonce with. That would have been probably worse.

[Rory]

Yeah, but and also, if you're submitting three different ideas, like, Esther was probably just trying in the booth and sent it to Polo.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Like, all right, if you want to go this route, this is what I like. That's not her fault. If you're submitting a bunch of stuff and you guys decide to pick the dis one, like, it's a bunch of different ideas. And Esther wrote Rude Boy that year. I don't think she was gave a yo at all.

[Josh]

Facts wrote Sex Therapy and Back to the Crib.

[Damaris]

Remember?

[Josh]

Y'all don't remember Back to the Crib.

[Rory]

One of the rapiest hooks of all time.

[Josh]

Yeah, I know.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Rory]

That's what Esther should be coming to the podium for, not dissing Beyonce. She don't even know that we going back to the crib.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, it was wild times, man. You know what I'm saying?

[Josh]

She wrote Sex Therapy. That's one of my favorite songs in the world. Like, top 50 favorite songs in the world. She wrote Sex Therapy by Robin Thicke. Oh, that's a classic.

[Walton Goggins]

Yes. The dean is not tripping about nothing. She's. She's good, she's comfortable.

[Rory]

Yeah. And I mean, shit, Some of the biggest Chris Brown records ever. That was the one two. Punch was her and Chris, but damn.

[Josh]

Invented Head by Chris Brown. Y'all wasn't there back. Back in them days. Invented Head.

[Walton Goggins]

The marriage. You was. You was 14 years old when invited.

[Josh]

Head came out. I think I was around 14, actually. Yeah, I was in ninth grade.

[Walton Goggins]

14 years old. You ain't know nothing about no sit at the head of the class. That's what you do. And do your goddamn homework.

[Damaris]

No.

[Josh]

Kerry Hilson, Trey Songz, and Usher. I'm about to reinvent sex. Carrie got him, like, what's next?

[Rory]

What?

[Josh]

You were 13, and I'm gonna make it my duty to have you so woozy. You think I invented X?

[Ryan Coogler]

Please.

[Josh]

Y'all wasn't outside.

[Walton Goggins]

Yo, Maris, you wasn't outside. You was nine years old.

[Rory]

Who's the definition of inside?

[Walton Goggins]

Who are you talking about? Who wasn't you were not outside. You could not go outside.

[Josh]

I was on Facebook tweeting the lyrics because that was back before your parents was on Facebook. Your parents wasn't on Facebook. So my old Facebook statuses are insane.

[Walton Goggins]

Talking crazy. You would have been one of them girls that was on IG Live and they father come in the room with the belt and start tearing ass up. You would have definitely been one of them little girls. I could see Damaris getting her ass beat on IG Live.

[Rory]

I can see it saying, you invented sex. When your parents are. It's impossible. No, they invented you with sex. You don't think I invented sex? Kids, get off your fucking face.

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, my God.

[Rory]

Trying to get poked, kids.

[Josh]

Shit. Trying to get poked.

[Walton Goggins]

No worry. And now, well, like, in, you know, true fashion, true white people fashion. Rory. I had to make y'all white rapper.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

Mount Rushmore.

[Rory]

What about. What about us guys?

[Walton Goggins]

I'm saying. Yeah, like it's. Whoa. Naturally, we can't talk about rap without talking about the white rappers. So they made up my white rapper.

[Rory]

Sushi Engrange, Lior Cohen, a bunch of faceless Rick Rubin redacted.

[Walton Goggins]

All right, so this is Mount Rushmore, obviously. Eminem recipes. Mac Miller. Is that Paul Wall?

[Rory]

It appears to be Paul Wall.

[Walton Goggins]

Paul Wall and Russ.

[Rory]

I feel bad for the guy that had to sculpt Russ's hair. Yeah, that would take him forever to chill.

[Walton Goggins]

Like, it was a. He had leave in conditioner in his hair right there. So that's a. That's a good leave in. I don't know if Paul Wall is on the white rapper Mount Rushmore.

[Rory]

Again. Establish what Mount Rushmore is.

[Walton Goggins]

Well, the ones that kind of, you know, laid the foundation for the. The foundations for the white rappers.

[Josh]

So you would take Paul Wall off before Russ if we talk about laying foundations?

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say. I'm not. I didn't say. I wouldn't take Russ off either. But just looking at that, I mean, Mack is still too young.

[Rory]

The only case I would make for Mech was defining the generation of the new white rapper. Like, where it went outside of Eminem, it was kind of corny for it was MC Search and Beastie Boys, which was cool. They're a base. And then it was, like, corny for a while. Then it was just Eminem. And then Mac action, like, that whole time came. And I think Mac defines that era. So I think it's a forefather of the new white rapper, maybe.

[Walton Goggins]

Okay, well, then maybe changing forefathers Yeah.

[Rory]

I mean, the new. Well, there's not a lot of white rappers that are, like, really established and have credibility. Because if we're just going forefather, it's got to be M. MC Search. We can't put, I guess, all the Beastie Boys, and. This is going to sound crazy, and I'm not trolling Vanilla Ice. I'm dead ass.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, I don't know about Vanilla Iceman.

[Rory]

Why? How is he not one of the forefathers of white rap? You could say it's corny. You can hate it. You can say it was bad for hip hop. How is that not a forefather of.

[Walton Goggins]

You're right, forefather. You're right.

[Rory]

You.

[Walton Goggins]

You would have to. You would have to have Vanilla Iced there. You would have to.

[Rory]

I think you could put LP up there. Even from, like, the label side. Rapper side, like, lp defined underground.

[Walton Goggins]

This is. This is. This is a. I don't know. I might be swinging for the fence here, but Marky Mark in the Funky Bunch. You got to put Marky Mark up there, man. I'm sorry.

[Rory]

Is his brother more popular?

[Walton Goggins]

I mean, he was in one of the biggest groups ever, but, I mean, we not gonna act like Marky Mark didn't have some. I mean, was it House of Pain?

[Rory]

Oh, House of Pain definitely has to be a. Yeah, it was a lot of groups.

[Josh]

Wait, Marky Mark is Mark Wahlberg?

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

What? No, he's Marky Mark.

[Josh]

No, I knew. No, listen.

[Ryan Coogler]

I knew.

[Josh]

Listen.

[Rory]

See?

[Walton Goggins]

Landline. Did you ever use a landline for.

[Josh]

Yes, I've used a land.

[Ryan Coogler]

Cool.

[Josh]

I knew that Mark Wahlberg used to be a rapper. I also had heard of Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch. I never put together that. That was the same Mark.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, it's Mark Wahlberg, the legend. That's the legendary Mark Wahlberg.

[Josh]

The funny is. I'm looking at, like, the Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch. Like, I'm looking at the Wild side tape or whatever it is. And I was about to say, this man is in white. He mixed. And then I look, and it's Marvel.

[Walton Goggins]

Mark Wahlberg, the legend. Absolutely.

[Josh]

That is actually hilarious.

[Rory]

Naming your group the Funky Bunch after you were just arrested for racial slurs in Boston, Massachusetts. Where do you get the balls to call yourself the. Have the word funk in anything that you do?

[Walton Goggins]

Where's Kid Rock? Is Kid Rock? Kid Rock was.

[Josh]

I was gonna say Kid Rock.

[Rory]

If we're just going off facts and not feelings. Do you have a case?

[Walton Goggins]

Kid Rock might need to be up there? He Might need to be on the Mount Rushmore of white rappers.

[Rory]

I completely forgot about House of Pain. That was a great pick. But again, these are all groups. Like I even just put them like small as one of the heads.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. You got to just pick, you know who you know, the head.

[Rory]

But it'd be just like us as whites to change the rules and put 15 of us up there.

[Josh]

Yeah, yeah. Everybody gets to participate.

[Rory]

A new mountain.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, get a new mountain. Need more mountains.

[Rory]

Outside of that, I don't know. It was. White rappers were weird up until recently. It wasn't really a thing.

[Josh]

They not still weird. It ain't that many white rappers out here.

[Walton Goggins]

It's a lot of white rappers now.

[Josh]

Like now active right now.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Josh]

Oh, who's active?

[Rory]

Jack Harlow had the biggest year of anyone.

[Josh]

Oh, and Jack. Yeah, Jack Russ.

[Rory]

Yeah. McLemore had a great time, whether you liked it or not. Yeah.

[Josh]

But they had like a little two.

[Rory]

Year, three year run Action Bronson, Yellow Wolf at a time mgk. I mean, Post Malone doesn't consider himself a rapper unless it's convenient.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Rory]

So.

[Josh]

Oh, oh, God. So I happened to click on. Because he came on after Meg last night, but I was like going to sleep, but I just happened to click on it and I'm like, who is this Bama ass, country ass man on my.

[Walton Goggins]

This post the legend.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Josh]

He came out with a beer, a hat, some tight Levi's. I said, oh, okay.

[Walton Goggins]

I get to it. Let's get right to it. We're going to get right into the set. Yeah, I with folks.

[Rory]

Oh, I forgot our guy, Vinny Paz, that you said I don't listen to.

[Walton Goggins]

You don't listen to Vinny Pass. You don't know nothing about Vinnie Pass, but is Logic up there?

[Josh]

No.

[Rory]

After his new sound, he's gonna be up there.

[Walton Goggins]

Wait, well, why is Logic not on the Mount Rushmore?

[Josh]

What would you take out to put logic there as far as rap?

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, just rapping.

[Josh]

You gonna take. You gonna take Paul Wall out to put Logic there. The south gonna shoot. The south might actually come find you.

[Rory]

I might actually shoot you. We just had people's champ right there. Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

I'm saying we just talking about rap though.

[Josh]

What that mean, though?

[Walton Goggins]

Logic could rap better than a lot of these dudes on this Mount Rushmore is what I'm saying.

[Rory]

I would take any Paul Wall verse over Logic. Yeah. Even if he walked in there and just started freestyle.

[Walton Goggins]

It's hard to take Paul Wall off the Mount Rushmore though. It's hard.

[Rory]

He again in that transition, I get now.

[Walton Goggins]

Where's Bubba Sparks at, though?

[Josh]

College Park?

[Rory]

Bubble Sparks.

[Walton Goggins]

We gotta give Bubba Sparks some love.

[Rory]

Where's my. Where's my white id? My actual id? Yeah, I gotta turn that over. We gotta give Dungeon Family's finest, Bubba Sparks Deliverance. One of the greatest records ever. Yo, Ugly. One of the greatest videos ever.

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, we gotta give Bubba Sparks some love, man.

[Rory]

Make me every character from the Bubba Sparks Ugly video.

[Walton Goggins]

Come on, man. Bubba Sparks legend, you know, white rap legend, man. Come on. We can't do that. We got to give Bubba Sparks his flowers, man. We can't do that.

[Rory]

Yeah, I'm with you there. I'm definitely with you there. Are we allowed to play a snippet of the new Logic Zone?

[Walton Goggins]

We can't play.

[Josh]

We can't play none. We already got. We got another copyright strike sent to our email.

[Rory]

Well, you guys know I think Logic is a friend of the show. I actually think he's. He's a good guy. I've enjoyed speaking to him. I enjoyed speaking to him afterwards. I've said to his face, some music is not for me. Doesn't mean you can't like someone as a person if you're not just there for all their music. This is my first time actually being upset at Logic. I wish we could play the snippet. He's in his Playboy Carti, Travis Scott era now, and I just don't. I just don't think the streets need that. I mean, if it makes you happy, do what makes you happy, bro. I'm not here to stop you with your musical dreams. You're independent. Do whatever the you want to do. You're rich, you're a parent. The world is your oyster.

[Walton Goggins]

I didn't hear it, but.

[Rory]

Oh, my God. I think he's trolling. He has to be. This has to be a joke. All right, so we just came back in because I wanted Maul to hear the snippet so he could react to it properly. It slaps, but I just don't need it from Logic.

[Walton Goggins]

Well, first things first. The last time, I remember Logic saying he was retiring from making music.

[Rory]

Yeah, but every rapper says that. He's put out three albums since then.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, okay, so let's start there. Yeah, I don't. Again, we just going off a snippet. That 12 seconds.

[Rory]

You think the be gonna change some boom bat.

[Walton Goggins]

No, I want to hear is gonna come in. No, I want to hear what he's rapping like.

[Rory]

Oh, I assume it's gonna be in that flow for the remainder of the song.

[Walton Goggins]

No.

[Rory]

But I don't know, maybe he's getting.

[Walton Goggins]

Barlow because you could get bars off on that.

[Rory]

Or could this be like some Logic conspiracy way to show how easy making that type of music is?

[Walton Goggins]

Now I could see Logic doing that as well.

[Rory]

That's why he's one head went.

[Walton Goggins]

He's one of those guys. He. He'll definitely show you how easy it is. To me.

[Rory]

He tricked the Wu Tang to get back together any.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. I don't know, man. I just think Logic is just one of those guys that's just so musically inclined and talented that, you know, he. He's going to try things and, you know, sometimes it's going to land, sometimes it's not. But I do want to hear that record. Like, I want to hear if he's actually rapping going on that record.

[Rory]

I see what you're saying, because I also. And it's going to piss all of our listeners off. I agree. Logic is extremely talented. Even if it's not for you, you cannot say that that person right there is not talented.

[Walton Goggins]

Absolutely.

[Rory]

Why are talented people regurgitating other. You're talented. You don't. You don't need to do that. If you weren't talented. I get it right away. Why would a talented person need to do that sounds. That would be my issue with Logic. And so that's my issue. And I'm not comparing Kanye and Logic at all. But when Kanye with Yay was just riding the wave of the sound, that was going down like, you're a genius. Why are you doing this? That's. That's where I think it's kind of weird, but I don't know. Troll people show how easy it is with AI to make that type of music.

[Walton Goggins]

See, Logic doing that, though, to make a point and just showing how easy it is to mimic that sound and try to recreate Created in his own way. But listen, I. I want to hear. I want to hear the song. I can't. I can't off a snippet. I can't kill Logic and say, yo, he's. He's trying to sound like Playboy, Cardi and all these guys.

[Rory]

I gotta hit a record and we can get off this. But they did a trap Mount Rushmore as well, which had Gucci, Ti GZ and Yo Gotti. And initially, everyone's was upset about Future not being there.

[Josh]

I don't think about Future when I think Trap. But again, I'm not from the south, so I'm not the right person to talk About.

[Rory]

I mean, he's in that category, but I. I feel you. He's, like, right after, I think, the trap. But he definitely has trap elements for sure. Like, if you caught him a trap rapper, I wouldn't be like, no. But I mean, yeah, as far as the. The forefather, I mean, yeah, it's kind of. I think they kind of nailed it.

[Walton Goggins]

I'm not mad at that. I'm not mad at Gucci, T I GZ and Yogatti. Yeah. If you. If you are gonna take somebody off and add future, then it would probably Yogatti.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

But I'm not mad at. I'm not mad at this photo. As far as Trap Rushmore. No, I'm not mad at that.

[Rory]

Yeah. That one didn't have as much, like, outrage because everyone from the south was like, yeah, this is perfect. We're amazing.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, this is perfect. You nailed it.

[Rory]

We've never made a mistake or a bad music opinion in our entire.

[Walton Goggins]

Honorable mention for Trap Rushmore. Titty Boy Two Chains. Yeah, have him on there.

[Rory]

I'm with you. Yeah, I'm definitely with you. And I mean, new generation Thug has to be there, too.

[Walton Goggins]

Absolutely.

[Rory]

But I again, not Mount Rushmore. He would be for the next generation for sure.

[Josh]

Doug said, I'ma pull up, eat on that and dip you.

[Walton Goggins]

Love. You felt that?

[Josh]

That nigga's a genius.

[Walton Goggins]

All right, man. All right, Baby D. What you going through? Right? What you going through? Like, we here for you. We here to listen to you. Something's going on. You all right?

[Rory]

You had a little food setting left.

[Walton Goggins]

Y, like, what's up, Baby D? Like, yo, he's a genius. What?

[Josh]

My bad.

[Walton Goggins]

Because he got that off and just left.

[Rory]

And he did it in a minor.

[Walton Goggins]

This. It's a lot there.

[Rory]

I sort of got my brain.

[Walton Goggins]

No. And that's how it happened.

[Rory]

My brain was not even. And that's way more layer than I thought.

[Walton Goggins]

Exactly. And that's how it happened.

[Rory]

No, he did not get to a minor.

[Walton Goggins]

Right, right. I got you.

[Rory]

I was.

[Walton Goggins]

I got you. I know what you were saying, but I got you.

[Ryan Coogler]

No worrying now.

[Gary]

Oh, we got a very special guest. The director Black Panther, the director of Creed. He has a new movie that's coming out in April called Centers. Here he is, Ryan Coogler. Ryan, how you doing, bro?

[Walton Goggins]

I'm happy to be with y'all, bro.

[Gary]

Let me ask you this, right?

[Ryan Coogler]

How did you.

[Gary]

How did you come up with the name Centers? Why the name Sinners?

[Walton Goggins]

It was a collaboration between us and the studio, trying to figure out the right name for the movie. And we realized that that word was said so many times throughout the script. You know, it deals with blues music and its relationship with the church.

[Gary]

Trust no one. Because this movie has a lot to do with paranoia. This film. This film deals with a lot of brotherhood, loyalty, fate.

[Rory]

Yes, sir.

[Gary]

You did a great job of working it and putting all that together. And it came together from the trailer for what I saw. Directed by, written by Ryan Coogler Fruit Bell Station Black Panther, Wakanda Forever Creed. And now he's with this one. Sinners arrives in theaters April 18th.

[Maul]

So you want to start a business. You might think you need a team of people and fancy tech skills, but listen to me when I say you don't. You just need GoDaddy arrow. I'm Walton Goggins, an actor, and I like the sound of starting my own business. Walton Goggins goggle glasses. But I couldn't do this my own. GoDaddy Arrow uses AI to create everything you need to grow a business. It'll make you a unique logo, it'll create a custom website, it'll write social posts for you, and even set you up with a social media calendar. How cool is that? Well, listen to this. For a limited time, you can get Arrow all access for just a dollar a week for 12 weeks. We're talking all the AI power of GoDaddy arrow, plus a domain E commerce store, payments, professional email, a unified inbox. All for less money than I spend on deep tanning lotion while sunbathing off the Amalfi coast. You know what? That sounds like a plan. Get [e-mail] terms apply.

[Damaris]

Have you ever looked around at your crew and thought, man, these are my people? The ones who turn the smallest moments into memories you'll be talking about for years. The folks who show up when you need them and make your life so much better. Well, now you can make those moments even sweeter because Share a Coke is back. And this time, it's all about celebrating friendships. Whether you're hanging out, watching the game, or just chopping it up. There's a Coke for everyone from bestie and bro to classic names like David and Sarah. These special cans and bottles are made for your whole squad. So grab one, crack it open, and toast to the people who make life worth celebrating. But don't wait. They won't be around forever. So grab one for everybody, pop the top, and keep the good vibes flowing. Next time you're making memories, don't miss your chance to Share a Coke with all your favorite people.

[Math Hoffa]

Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of caring for your home. Out uncertainty, self doubt, stressing about not knowing where to start. In plans and guides that make it easy to get home. Projects done. Out word art. Sorry. Live laugh lovers. In knowing what to do, when to do it, and who to hire. Start caring for your home with confidence. Download thumbtack today.

[Walton Goggins]

She don't want to go out. She don't want to stand up for more than 12 minutes and I'm about.

[Josh]

To freeze my eggs.

[Walton Goggins]

You about to do what?

[Josh]

Freeze my eggs, Baby.

[Walton Goggins]

Baby.

[Rory]

What? You.

[Josh]

I have to. I'm a woman that wants to have kids eventually.

[Walton Goggins]

That's 312 weeks until 31 years old.

[Josh]

But that's still. Your eggs start dying at 25. Yeah, that's something.

[Walton Goggins]

Don't your eggs die every period?

[Josh]

Yes, you lose them and I'm not getting any more. So yeah, I have to start thinking about that. Freezing my eggs. Anything can happen.

[Rory]

Do they tell me how? Like, how many you have every.

[Josh]

No, you have to. I would have to go get that checked out. And I'm really not really for them to go up in there yet, but yeah, I'm gonna probably get them frozen.

[Walton Goggins]

Know the person you're going to have kids with? Like, you got met already?

[Josh]

I used to think so, but no, not anymore.

[Walton Goggins]

Okay, what about you?

[Rory]

You going to freeze your spar.

[Josh]

Well, one of y'all fertilize my eggs.

[Rory]

Sorry.

[Josh]

So that they could last longer, wouldn't you?

[Walton Goggins]

What?

[Josh]

Fertil. So when I go to freeze my eggs. Fertilized eggs tend to last longer and do better. So, like, will one of y'all fertilize, like, half of them?

[Rory]

But when you, like, put it back in, would we be the father?

[Josh]

Yes.

[Walton Goggins]

You think that I would give you. Wait, Baby. Do you think that I would let you take my sperm and fertilize your egg?

[Josh]

First of all, you got like, five more years left before, like, you start giving your kids at risk for autism and stuff.

[Rory]

Like, you have to freeze that sack brother.

[Josh]

Yeah, like you. The older men are, the less healthy the kids are likely to be. I'm just saying. So come on, we can have a kid.

[Rory]

Lil Pie baby.

[Walton Goggins]

That just sounds like a terrible idea.

[Rory]

It's a black mirror episode.

[Walton Goggins]

That is a terrible.

[Josh]

That is definitely a black mirror.

[Rory]

Episod.

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, my God. Imagine that. You imagine the headlines. If I donate my sperm to Baby D's egg, Like, can you imagine that?

[Rory]

First of all, Reddit would go crazy.

[Walton Goggins]

First of all, there'd be a whole.

[Rory]

Different Reddit just for that.

[Walton Goggins]

Yo, Peach. Bleak. First of all, I'm all kind of like, I didn't. We didn't even have sex. That you just gave her sperm. That's like the. The president. Like, what type of is that? Do you have a kid? Like, nah. Yeah, that is cool.

[Josh]

We have a little paw baby.

[Rory]

I know some people that have like packs with their friends, like platonic friends. Yeah, I know.

[Walton Goggins]

I had. I had one before that. She wouldn't have a baby. You broke the pack.

[Rory]

Wait, what was the. The age for the pack? Like, if we're both this age.

[Walton Goggins]

If. If. Because she's, I think, like four years younger than me. So at the time she was like, when she was 35. Which. Or 30, and I was. I would have been turning 34. 35. She's like, would you have a kid? I was like, yeah. And then like two years later, she had a kid. Broke the pack.

[Josh]

Yeah, she thought about that a little long.

[Rory]

How long are you gonna give her too? Till she turned 35.

[Walton Goggins]

That's what she was saying.

[Rory]

Okay, gotcha.

[Walton Goggins]

She had introduced the idea of it and I was like, yo, we like, super cool. Like, I was like, yeah, why not? What?

[Rory]

Oh, this is where I wish we had another mic. Maybe Peach or Josh could just yell. What traits do you think the baby would take from each of these? Do you think this would be a well meshed baby as far as how they act?

[Walton Goggins]

If I was to donate sperm to baby these eggs?

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, no. That baby would be lit.

[Rory]

I think you guys would balance each other out well for the child.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That baby. No, Baby D's right. I'm gonna be like, absent father. She's raped.

[Rory]

No. For sure.

[Josh]

No, no. I'm gonna be an absent mother. No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Walton Goggins]

We both can't be absent Baby D. Somebody has to be present.

[Josh]

A big family. That's what I thought about.

[Walton Goggins]

You do too.

[Josh]

Like, Rory, you got a big family.

[Walton Goggins]

You do too. You on your phone with every day. I don't know which one.

[Josh]

You got 400 of them, though.

[Rory]

That's true.

[Josh]

And your nephew is so well raised. He's amazing. Like, but what that got to do.

[Walton Goggins]

With you taking this kid?

[Josh]

Nah, I ain't doing that.

[Walton Goggins]

What?

[Josh]

Nah, I'm not the primary parent. You're the primary parent.

[Walton Goggins]

How? You're the one that's carrying the baby.

[Josh]

Yeah. For nine months. And then for 18 years, it's on you.

[Walton Goggins]

Hell no. That just.

[Rory]

That's how that works.

[Walton Goggins]

Yes.

[Josh]

That's crazy.

[Rory]

American condition is the father.

[Walton Goggins]

You're gonna carry the seed for nine months and then be like, yo, I'm cool.

[Rory]

But what's so funny about the scenario is you guys are planning to abandon. Not that. Not that. I understand that.

[Walton Goggins]

People.

[Rory]

People abandon their kids. But when shit happens, you'll be like, all right, he didn't want that baby. The shit happened, so he jetted. You guys are going to science. But look, how to create a child to then abandon.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, but look how it starts. I am donating. I am the donor.

[Rory]

It's a personal donation, though.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, It's. Yeah. I am depositing into Baby D's account.

[Rory]

Yes.

[Walton Goggins]

Of her egg. Right.

[Rory]

She. She then carries her apple wallet.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, she carries the egg. She can't just leave the egg.

[Josh]

Once it happens, you make more money than me. Like, if. In a child, I would lose because you make more money than me.

[Walton Goggins]

No, no, we don't got to go there.

[Rory]

Imagine if a woman went to a sperm bank with the intention to abandon her child.

[Walton Goggins]

I just want to have it, but I don't want it. They're gonna be like, no, it's just.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Like, are you a surrogate for a surrogate for a surrogate?

[Josh]

There's a difference between being. You don't abandon, but not the primary parent. Like, when it comes to. Like, when the kid wants something, it needs to go to daddy first.

[Walton Goggins]

All right, so here. Here's. Here's what we do. If it's a girl, you have to keep it, because I can't. I can't raise a woman.

[Josh]

I would not want my daughter raised by you. So agree.

[Walton Goggins]

Wait, wait, hold on. What that mean?

[Josh]

You just said you can't raise a girl because I.

[Walton Goggins]

Because I would have to kill one of these little Y n's out here. I don't want to do that. That's the only reason.

[Rory]

So you want to raise one a Y N?

[Walton Goggins]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely raising a Y N. For sure. But if it's a boy, I'll take it. I'll raise him.

[Rory]

What's funny is I think he'd get all his violence from Damaris. I'd be more scared of his mother's side in a situation, like to make an irrational impulse decision to murder me.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I'm definitely going with Damaris's side.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. So you have to raise it if it's a girl.

[Josh]

Cool.

[Walton Goggins]

I think that should be a thing. Anyway.

[Rory]

That's it.

[Walton Goggins]

No.

[Josh]

Girls need their fathers.

[Walton Goggins]

Girls, absolutely. But I'm saying, like, if y'all. If the parents break up, split, like, you know, we get separate households, we don't live together. I think that if it's a daughter, she should still have a bond and a life with the father, but primary residence. Who raises her, I think should be the mother. And if it's a boy, I think he should live under his dad's roof.

[Josh]

Girls, the age 12 through 17 need to be with their father.

[Walton Goggins]

Twelve, like every day.

[Josh]

Yes. They need to be with their fathers.

[Rory]

Damn. Like parenting.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

Why though?

[Josh]

What do you mean, why? That's when they need y'all the most. That's when they need you the most. That's when they need to be reassured the most. That male attention they need the most.

[Walton Goggins]

No, but you still. I'm not saying, like, the father is completely. I'm saying as far as live in the house.

[Josh]

You ever seen a 13 year old girl argue with her mother? That should have shake the. Shake the neighborhood.

[Walton Goggins]

You forgot I have a twin sister. You think I've never seen a 13?

[Josh]

Exactly, exactly.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. I had to grow up fast.

[Josh]

Your daddy would have been off that stuff. Your sister would have left and went with him immediately. I'm telling you, she would have asked her, she would have been gone.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. It is a point where mothers and daughters clash.

[Josh]

Yeah, them teenage years is tough.

[Walton Goggins]

As soon as your first period. As soon as that first period happened, it. That's it. It's over. Now it's like two women fighting for, like, I've seen it.

[Josh]

I'm just telling you what I pissing on trees. Who got the. Who got the smarter mouth? Who got the bigger attitude?

[Walton Goggins]

Who going had a last. That last. Last. The last word, yo, you don't want to know how many times my house shook up and down for the last one. I'm like, why don't y'all both just shut the up? Just both of y'all shut the up.

[Rory]

And now they're both mad at you.

[Walton Goggins]

I'm 14. Like, both of y'all shut the up. Like, just let it go. Like. Yeah, it's crazy. That's a real thing.

[Josh]

I don't know what it is about teenage. It's like we just become monsters. My mother's thing used to be the Maris. I. Okay, okay. She's like, damaris, I swear to God say, okay, one more mother.

[Walton Goggins]

It's the last. Y'all want that last, last. You know how many battles I've seen over the last? I'm like, yo, we talking about a box of cereal this Started at a box of cereal and now we all the way here. Like, what are we talking about?

[Rory]

But then raising a teenage boy, you have to think, factor in all the towels that you can crack in half, by the end of the week, it's gonna be fucking semen everywhere.

[Walton Goggins]

That was.

[Rory]

You want a quiet house with dirty towels or a loud one with, you know, a tampon or two.

[Walton Goggins]

Now me and my mom used to always like our thing was always like, just me like coming in the house late. After a while, like that was moment. Like I was just started hanging out in the streets.

[Josh]

Like you've been a.

[Walton Goggins]

No, but it wasn't even that. It was like literally just being outside, like with the, with the homies. Like, we going to Brooklyn, we going to Queens and we taking the tr. It's 2 in the morning. My mom's like, what are you. How you think you're just coming here three, four in the morning? Like what's. And it's like, yo, what the. I'm not saying nothing wrong with it, but looking back, I understand why my mother was so. Yeah, it's crazy, you know what it is to be on the train at 3 in the morning as a 16 year old black kid. Like.

[Josh]

Yeah. And she can't sleep. Like as a parent you can't sleep.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, that's what. That was my thing. That was my. And then the girls, you know, come bringing the girls to the house. That was a thing. But my mom's thing was better than bringing the boys to the house. So. You know what I'm saying? I was just like, it was just that part.

[Rory]

So we, we, we deciding what we're going to do, depending on if it's a boy or a girl. With that agreement, let's say we get to 15 and a transition wants to happen. Does the household transition?

[Josh]

You can't help yourself, can you?

[Walton Goggins]

You can't help like transitions from boy to girl.

[Rory]

I knew we were going to take that out anyways. Pg. Keep it on me. Okay. Do we got back over? I got you. It's just.

[Josh]

Why? Because. Why?

[Rory]

Because it was sitting right there. I. Okay, do we have names that we can agree on? We already know where the boy or the girl is staying. Do you have boy names?

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, I got boy names.

[Josh]

What's your boy names?

[Walton Goggins]

I. I think I want a junior.

[Josh]

Not naming my kid Jamal. But it's spelled J. I'm not doing that.

[Walton Goggins]

Why? He's Muslim. You take a shot.

[Rory]

Jesus. Piece off.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. Take a shahada. Yeah. Raise a Muslim baby.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

I Can see. I can see you turning Muslim.

[Rory]

She needs one month with Kevin Gates, you know?

[Walton Goggins]

Right, Kevin. Kevin got Brittany draped.

[Josh]

I might be the only person. I might be the only person ever stressed Kevin Gates out. Kevin wouldn't stress me out. I would stress Kevin.

[Rory]

He seems like your type. I don't mean that in a bad way. I'm serious.

[Josh]

He's a challenge. I love a challenge. Yeah.

[Rory]

Yeah. I would argue all day.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. Kevin Gates and Damaris. Yeah. That's an argument waiting. Yeah.

[Rory]

Do you have girl names?

[Walton Goggins]

She gave us girl names before, didn't.

[Josh]

Baby Alexandra or Anastasia.

[Walton Goggins]

J.

[Rory]

From left field. J. I like J.

[Walton Goggins]

No, you don't. No, you do not. You don't like J.

[Rory]

You can still be a junior JR.

[Walton Goggins]

And it's like, what is boy? Girl like is a unisex name.

[Rory]

We saw the Smiths do it. Look how that turned out. Great. Two creative kids.

[Walton Goggins]

Two creative kids, Absolutely.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Josh]

We gonna have a kid that talks too much? Two podcasters can't have a kid. Kid won't shut the.

[Rory]

No, that kid's gonna.

[Walton Goggins]

It's funny because I only. It's funny because, I mean, Rory knows I only talk here.

[Rory]

Yeah, same.

[Josh]

No, I only talk here.

[Walton Goggins]

I don't talk to nobody outside of this. I talk to the same four people every day, probably outside of these walls.

[Rory]

Cuz I have a word count, like a Twitter word count, and it usually ends here.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Go home and be quiet.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. I talk to my nephew like he's one of the four people I speak to every day and he's. How old is my nephew?

[Josh]

Five?

[Walton Goggins]

Nine. Nine.

[Josh]

Damn. I told him.

[Walton Goggins]

He's one of the few people I talked to every day. A nine year old talk to nobody, y'all.

[Rory]

Am I by proxy, just the Godfather? Is that just how.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Josh]

Nah. Cause if he go broke, you go broke, too. I need somebody that's not connected.

[Walton Goggins]

What you mean?

[Josh]

I need somebody who. Who ain't. We can't all have the same. No.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Josh]

No, because if we get canceled because Rory can't stop mentioning the goddamn him. Didn't know the Godfather.

[Rory]

I've never referred to them as that.

[Josh]

Neither one.

[Walton Goggins]

The goddamn. The goddamn. Keep coming up in here, buying up all the good Christian man's air. Yo, Damaris is crazy.

[Josh]

Just bleep. Just bleep, bleep it off. I'm sorry, but.

[Ryan Coogler]

Yeah.

[Josh]

Did we. What was the voicemail?

[Walton Goggins]

No, we got him, right? I told him, go to. Oh, yeah, go to Columbia Doctor. You know, I mean, go to. Just get you some luggage. Man, don't worry about it. Go to Target or go to. What's the other? Not Target, Walmart.

[Josh]

TJ Maxx.

[Walton Goggins]

TJ Maxx.

[Rory]

Target is probably gonna have some expensive luggage, though.

[Walton Goggins]

I mean, just get you some, you know, just black. Something durable.

[Rory]

This is not an ad, but tell Volume they owe us one. Away luggage is affordable and great.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Rory]

I've ran my away luggage into the ground over the last five years.

[Josh]

How do you spell it?

[Rory]

Away. A W, a Y. Yeah, create a code just for the of it.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, just for the of it. Critical.

[Rory]

These are. These are the ads that work. When you say, like, we'll leave a.

[Josh]

Amazon link in our description.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. That go to Columbia. Dr. Take you about, you know, thousand dollars spending cash if you have. If not, 500. Do just have fun for, like, four days.

[Rory]

Just journal out there.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. Just get your mind right. You know what I'm saying? Make sure, you know, like I said, keep yourself protected and have fun, man. Enjoy yourself.

[Rory]

All right.

[Walton Goggins]

All right. Well, it's been good talking to you guys. Now it's time for me to shut up for the rest of the evening.

[Rory]

Peach, is there, like, an AI program that we can see what the baby would look like between Male Mall and Damaris? Because, I mean, to me, that's. That's Peach.

[Josh]

I was thinking that.

[Walton Goggins]

Yo, I was thinking. Yes, that what you were thinking, Peach over there in your little lair.

[Josh]

Me and Ma look alike.

[Walton Goggins]

See, that's racist.

[Rory]

That is racist.

[Josh]

My face was chunkier. They said, me, I look like a female mall.

[Walton Goggins]

We don't look alike.

[Josh]

I'm like, maul literally has a twin. I look nothing like her.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, we don't. We don't look like. That's just them being racist, but it's all good.

[Gary]

Oh, Joe, we got a very special guest. The director, Black Panther, the director of Creed. He has a new movie that's coming out in April called Sinners. Here he is, Ryan Coogler. Ryan, how you doing, bro?

[Walton Goggins]

I'm happy to be with y'all, bro.

[Gary]

Let me ask you this, Ryan. How did you. How did you come up with the name Sinners? Why the name Sinners?

[Walton Goggins]

It was a collaboration between us and the studio trying to figure out the right name for the movie. And we realized that that line, you know, that that word was said so many times throughout the script. You know, it deals with blues music. Music and its relationship with the church.

[Gary]

Trust no one. Because this movie has a lot to do with paranoia. This film. This film deals with a lot of brotherhood, loyalty, fate, yes, sir. You did a great job of working it and putting all that together. And it came together from the trailer for what I Saw, Directed by, written by Ryan Coogler, Fruit Bell Station Black Panther, Wakanda Forever Creed and now he's with this one. Sinners arrives in theaters April 18th.

[Maul]

So you want to start a business. You might think you need a team of people and fancy tech skills, but listen to me when I say you don't. You just need GoDaddy arrow. I'm Walton Goggins, an actor, and I like the sound of starting my own business. Walton Goggins goggle glasses. But I couldn't do this my own. GoDaddy Arrow uses AI to create everything you need to grow a business. It'll make you a unique logo, it'll create a custom website, it'll write social posts for you, and even set you up with a social media calendar. How cool is that? Well, listen to this. For a limited time, you can get Arrow all access for just a dollar a week for 12 weeks. We're talking all the AI power of GoDaddy arrow plus a domain E commerce store, payments, professional email, a unified inbox. All for less money than I spend on deep tanning lotion while sunbathing off the Amalfi coast. You know what? That sounds like a plan. Get [e-mail] terms apply.

[Damaris]

Have you ever looked around at your crew and thought, man, these are my people? The ones who turn the smallest moments into memories you'll be talking about for years. The folks who show up when you need them and make your life so much better. Well, now you can make those moments even sweeter because Sherra Coke is back. And this time it's all about celebrating friendship. Whether you're hanging out, watching the game, or just chopping it up. There's a Coke for everyone from bestie and bro to classic names like David and Sarah. These special cans and bottles are made for your whole squad. So grab one, crack it open and toast to the people who make life worth celebrating. But don't wait. They won't be around forever. So grab one for everybody, pop the chicken top and keep the good vibes flowing. Next time you're making memories, don't miss your chance to share a Coke with all your favorite people.

[Math Hoffa]

Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of caring for your home. Out Uncertainty, Self doubt, stressing about not knowing where to start. In plans and guides that make it easy to get home. Projects done. Out. Word art. Sorry. Live Laugh lovers in knowing what to do when to do it and who to hire. Start caring for your home with confidence. Download thumbtack today.

[Rory]

What is going on with my expert opinion?

[Ryan Coogler]

I do not know the barbershop.

[Rory]

I have been. Just because, you know, love the show. Fuck with math. I've just been paying attention to what's going on. We're not here to judge. We understand how fucking crazy it is to try to keep a podcast business going, but where does this leave the show?

[Ryan Coogler]

In the hands of the owner.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Ryan Coogler]

In the hands of the owner. I don't have a lot of information as far as, like, where it's gonna go. I found out a lot of things in real time with everybody else. I knew the lights were off, okay? We went to do an episode. I'm the one who called him and told him the lights were off. So, you know, that's jacked up. I told him to fight for the shot. Not because. Not because the aesthetic is so needed, but because I felt the way it was done was dirty. I don't think you should let people get away with the bullshit. So you should fight for the shop. But, you know, the spot isn't the show. The voices of the show, the energy is the show. You guys, you, too, could pick up, go someplace else, and still be Rory and Maul. You dig what I'm saying? Like, when you left, when it was Joe Budden, and then next thing it's Rorian Maul. You're still Rorian Maul. My expert opinion will be my expert opinion no matter where it is. Agreed. It's not. I don't like the fact that all the business is on Front street, but that wasn't my call either, you dig? So we'll see what happens. We'll see what shakes out. People are hitting me up for answers that I'm kind of watching with everybody else. Matt, can you see what's going on? Yeah, I'm looking right now. This is crazy. You got some Popco? That's nuts. Do you see this shit? Other than, wow, Fuck, did you see that?

[Walton Goggins]

So you and Math haven't had any personal conversations at all about it?

[Ryan Coogler]

We spoke. We spoke months ago, and we knew that the landlord was, like, being a little shaky. You see him walking by, looking in, like when we're filming an episode, but dozens of people walk by and look in. You see a barbershop with a bunch of bright lights. You know what I mean? And microphones. Of course, you stop and what the fuck is that? So I didn't pay attention to every. I didn't Even know what he looked like. And I stayed out of the business part of it. Like, if I'm not involved, if I'm not directly involved, if I can't help in any way, shape or form, I'm not injecting myself into anybody's situation, especially when it comes to finances.

[Rory]

Yeah, right.

[Ryan Coogler]

Those are your pockets. You spend your money, you do what you do. I don't wanna know how much you're making. I don't wanna know. I'm from Queens. All I care about is my bread. I don't want any of yours. I need all of mine. That's the philosophy. And I'm not here to pocket check or pocket watch you under any circumstances. So as far as, like, the being, he did tell us when homeboy was trying to. After the light thing, homeboy's trying to kick us out. Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, well, he needs barbers in his hand. There's nobody. He told us all the same stuff that he said online. So, yeah, we had that conversation.

[Walton Goggins]

But wait, the landlord said he needs barbers in the shop.

[Ryan Coogler]

I'm not saying anything that's not already. Yeah, of course there's something in the contract that says you have to have barbers in the chair. Or there's like a subsection where it says you can use it for other purposes. Right. But the main thing is the barbershop. And I can understand that if I'm a landlord and I own a spot and I walk by, you know, three or four days out of the week, and the shutters are down and the lights are off, and this is my place. I want to see it active and moving. You don't want your building looking like it's abandoned. Basically.

[Rory]

I mean, if the agreement, though, is per month, I owe you this. What I do with it is kind of none of your fucking business.

[Ryan Coogler]

Unless there's a suspicion that you're doing something illegal. Illegal.

[Rory]

Okay. Which obviously was not happening.

[Ryan Coogler]

What? In that if we selling drugs on.

[Walton Goggins]

Camera, like, bro, you might have just did something with that. We ain't think about that.

[Rory]

What you think RFK was there for?

[Ryan Coogler]

Wow. Wow. Okay.

[Rory]

Well, that was where the suspicion started. What is RFK doing here?

[Walton Goggins]

It's been so long.

[Rory]

Some shady.

[Walton Goggins]

Right now, drugs have been sold on camera before? Absolutely.

[Ryan Coogler]

Not when I'm around.

[Walton Goggins]

Right?

[Ryan Coogler]

Not when I'm around. So, you know, some shit makes sense, some shit just doesn't. I didn't communicate with him because I wasn't asked to. And it's not. It's not my it's not. For lack of a better term, it's not my place.

[Rory]

Okay, but is that something you at least check in with him on, of, like, the status of, like, what's happening or. You have so many resources, I couldn't see why math would hit you to be like, yo, this is what's going on on. Is there something you can help out with?

[Ryan Coogler]

That never happened.

[Rory]

Okay, then I just feel like somebody like you would be the first call with the resources that you have and could provide.

[Ryan Coogler]

Yeah, sure.

[Rory]

To keep that moving.

[Ryan Coogler]

But that never happened. Like, we. We are where we. If that was the case, I don't think we. You know, if he'd asked and I. And I could figure it out. Yeah, of course I would. When have you ever asked me for something and I said, nah, go fuck yourself, never. Or, like, didn't even answer the phone for you, Never. Like, if I'm not answering the phone. Excuse me, if I'm not answering the phone, I'm busy as fuck. I am working on albums with an icon, so my days are jumbled up. And if we're not filming the show, then I have things that I definitely need to put my attention to. But juggling wasn't a problem. And anybody calling me for anything, it's nothing to be like, oh, okay, I got you. But if I don't have it, if I can't help it, you. I'm not going to pretend I can.

[Rory]

But you think there's a. A window with this? Because, I mean, the podcast world is so unpredictable with fans, algorithms, everything with the steam that y'all had, you know, being one of the top shows. Is the window small to come back? Just the way operates and how quick everyone moves, how quick do you think you guys need to come back?

[Ryan Coogler]

It's not risk free, right? I'll give you that. I'll say that it's not. I can't. I don't have a. Because they also say absence makes the heart grow fonder, you know, and we were obviously providing something that, you know, was different from our peers. We don't do what Rory and Maul do. We don't do what Joe Budden does. We don't do what Drink Champs does. Not in the same way. We're all doing something different. Your voices are unique again. Wherever Rory and Mal go, it's Rory and Maul. You can't duplicate the voices, right? Wherever my expert opinion goes, it's my expert opinion. You can't duplicate the voices, you can't duplicate the energy. So if people Miss that, then there's always gonna be a window for something that somebody misses. You know what I'm saying? But maybe the main eyes, like. I heard that.

[Josh]

Sorry.

[Rory]

No, it kind of goes back to the.

[Walton Goggins]

The.

[Rory]

To the casual fan combo we were having. Like, there's podcasts that I'll watch all the time, and if I start clicking other and somehow they get out of my algorithm, it's not at the top of my mind.

[Ryan Coogler]

Sure.

[Rory]

Because it doesn't pop up. I just think that's how we're kind of trained with everything. Now I've fallen off with podcasts not because I dislike them. It's because with all the busy I'm doing during the day, sometimes my algorithms is what's going to be the thing that I click that day for.

[Ryan Coogler]

Sure.

[Rory]

So, I mean, that. That's where I think not a window would be small because you guys have already built a core fan base that's always going to be there.

[Ryan Coogler]

Like, you know, there's a million subscribers on that.

[Rory]

Yeah. It's incredible. Like, so you guys were the only podcast that. I don't want to say late to the party because it sounds like, disrespectful, but it's not. When everyone. The podcast boom hit, everyone tried to do a podcast and they all failed. You guys were the only ones that came in after, like, the core and passed us, like.

[Ryan Coogler]

I see what you mean.

[Rory]

Yes. The only one. And to me, that was, like, the most unique ever. When Matt launched it, I was like, oh, this is a really good conversation. But this is when everyone has a podcast because they saw what the rest of us were doing. Y'all were the only ones post boom that actually stayed. So I do think, of course, no matter what, there's. The window is open.

[Ryan Coogler]

Yeah. But there's magic with.

[Rory]

Because we've been through it. So, you know, there's no judgments on this side. We have a little therapy session. What have these ups and downs been like with people leaving the show? Messiness. New podcasts every single day. They're talking more about what's going on with the cast rather than the actual show. What has that been like? Because you've been, I feel like the only one from the original cast that's still not even.

[Ryan Coogler]

I'm not even the original cast.

[Maul]

Oh, yeah.

[Rory]

I guess you're right.

[Ryan Coogler]

Yeah. No, I'm second generation at best. I'm not even original cast. And I think there might have been an iteration between the first and the second. I might be third. But the question is, what has it been like.

[Rory]

Yeah. Navigating with. You know, now that we have bag fueled them leaving the Space Go situation. Like there's been a lot of drama with that show and who are we to speak? We've had the same type of. But ah.

[Walton Goggins]

I don't know if we had the same type of.

[Rory]

Oh, public breakup fallouts. Yeah. Like they. I mean even everybody is part of our breakup was on their show, Joe. Like we.

[Ryan Coogler]

We've had often. How about that?

[Rory]

How is that, Ben? Because I mean, I know you still have a great relationship with the guys at Bag Fuel and I don't know your situation with Space Ghost, but how have you navigated that? Like who gets who in the divorce? Like I still, I still love Savon, but you know, it's weird.

[Ryan Coogler]

Nothing, nothing's weird for me. This is going to sound very anti climatic. I'm chilling, okay. I'm really, I'm chilling. I don't have any beef with anybody. I don't have no smoke with nobody. Me and Math is still in business. Me and Esso are cool. Me and Heineken are cool. Me and Space are cool. These people were mentioning didn't do anything to me. You know what I mean? And I also live by a very specific philosophy. My father told me a long time ago, if you didn't violate somebody's kids, violate somebody's wife, send somebody to jail to take somebody's life, it's not that serious. You can work it out. You can figure out a way to coexist with that other person on the other side of that thing. Money loss. You can give it back. Food, gone. You can give it back like Tom gone. You can make amends. You can figure that shit out. The only four unforgivables were the ones I just named. And none of that happened in any of these situations. Nobody did anything to anybody that soaked crazy. You can't get back. Right. And when it's not that I can't, I don't have. It's hard for me to put energy into beef friction, like whatever you want to call it. It's hard. I don't.

[Walton Goggins]

It don't have to necessarily be a beef, but outside of those four things, there's things that people can do that would definitely warrant you never fucking with them again though. Sure.

[Ryan Coogler]

But even that doesn't come with any anger. It doesn't come with malice. It doesn't come with like, I'm not.

[Rory]

Fuck with you now.

[Ryan Coogler]

And if it's not that, then what if it's not that, if I'm not looking for you to actively harm you.

[Walton Goggins]

It's not beef.

[Ryan Coogler]

I don't understand what we're arguing about. Like, we disagree fundamentally. We're not seeing eye to eye creatively. We go our separate ways. When I see you out. Yo, what up? How's it going? What's poppin? You didn't do nothing to me. Like, nothing crazy. And if you did something, I got it back. So what we talk about? You were never gonna. My other philosophy in this business, you'll need me before I need you. It's always been true. Every year of my career, it's been true. Anyone who's ever tried to do me dirty has had to spin the block or look for another me and end up with the Teemu version. It's always been hilarious. I don't even. It's to the point where I don't even trip anymore. And I don't have that situation now. I don't know this landlord. You know what I mean? Whatever he did, I don't know the business. I wasn't there when the paperwork was signed and the contracts were signed. For me to jump in now and go, hold on. Wait a minute. What about this part? I look stupid doing that, right? Like, whatever. He signed the lease. I didn't know it was a. I didn't know he was subleasing. I didn't get invited. Math owns the shop. Okay, cool. He doesn't own the shop. Okay, cool. We subleasing. All right, cool.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Ryan Coogler]

What part of finding that out yeah. What part of finding that out changes anything that I have to do? My job is to show up.

[Walton Goggins]

Be.

[Ryan Coogler]

Me, talk about the things I know, research the things I don't, and keep the show. Keep. Rep the show, rep the energy, rep the spot. We're not a crew, we're not a gang. You know what I'm saying? Not family. We're people. We work together and it's a good. And we all do great work together. And as long as it's that I learned late in my career on some source magazine shit. I learned very late in my career, way later than I should have. You can't get but so attached to something that does not belong to you. Facts, bad idea. And Rory, you may remember there was a time when I was just Mecca from the source. That was my whole. I was in people's phones.

[Rory]

That was literally the sent. Like that was the full name.

[Ryan Coogler]

Nobody knew my last name. That Mecca from the source for everybody. Regardless of where I wrote what I. That's how hard I was with that brand. When I got offered other spots, I deaded it because I felt like you were insulting me. How dare you question my loyalty to what I'm doing out my face? Think I'm a jump ship? I look like to you, I smack you know what I'm saying? I got. I got angry, like, to the point where you think that of me? You think I would actually do some shit? Like, bro, when the source started making wild moves and I'm in the back going, no. What the fuck? No. Oh, my God. And he did it anyway. It's not mine. It's not mine, doesn't belong to me. It's not my say. It's not my call for me to sit here and scream at the top of my lungs, get all upset and get an ulcer over somebody else's decision. It's crazy.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, but I mean, at the same time, you know, I think that it is some sort of communication that should be had so that you not blindsided when you don't have to know the exact details of everything. But if you're saying you found out about shit, when I found out about shit, that's a problem to me.

[Ryan Coogler]

Finding me finding out ain't the issue. Him telling everybody is pretty much the cornerstone of the gripes, right? That's where all the smoke is.

[Walton Goggins]

Me, him, telling the public.

[Ryan Coogler]

Right, okay, right. Could I stop him from doing that? He never asked me. He never told me he was gonna do that. He didn't tell any of us. I can't speak for any of us. I know he never told me. I found out he was online like everybody else. I'm getting. My phone's blowing up. Yo, you see your man? I got a lot of. Who we talking about? Rory? Like, I got a song. What do you mean? Yeah, no, Buster.

[Rory]

Cool.

[Gary]

What?

[Ryan Coogler]

Motherfucker. Nah, Math is okay. I'll go look. I went and looked. Oh, shit. Well.

[Walton Goggins]

Right.

[Ryan Coogler]

Oh, run that back. But what am I supposed to do about it? You know what I mean? Like, I get upset, get mad, get excited. It's his shop. It's his show.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, but it's. I mean, but you've also dedicated a lot of, you know, sweat equity to the brand.

[Ryan Coogler]

That's worth. That's worth whatever it's worth. And I did that.

[Walton Goggins]

It's a worth to it, though.

[Ryan Coogler]

I did that. Because of me.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

No, for sure, absolutely. But I'm just saying, like, I just thought that there would be some type of communication between you and Math to where you would at least not be blindsided by some of the things you're hearing him say publicly. I thought that you would, you know, you would at least know what was going on a little bit, maybe not exactly what's in the paperwork.

[Ryan Coogler]

I knew a little bit about what was going on. Like I said. I knew the landlord was acting a little shaky. I knew I was the first one to find out the lights was off, and I kind of figured. I don't know if he actually. Yeah, he told us that the landlord was out to evict us, but I didn't realize it would get. It wasn't in that order.

[Walton Goggins]

Okay, I got it.

[Ryan Coogler]

Like, the lights off was the last thing. Oh, shit, the lights are off. Called him, told him, hey, I don't know how we gonna do this episode. The lights is off. You might wanna call somebody. I don't know what's been happening. Like, all right, new episode today. All right. All right. Going to the studio. Gotta do X, Y, Z, A, B and C. Let me know what's happening. Next time we need to come to a show, I'll pull up and do my part. But outside of that, no one's obligated or entitled to anything. No one's entitled to any of that. Nobody's obligated. It's not frowned upon when it happens.

[Rory]

Yeah. From a leadership standpoint, maybe it would be better and behoove the staff to know everything that's going on just for the show. But I see what Mech's saying, because, like, that's a drastically different situation than ours where you're sitting behind expenses. We have a contract that is based off everything that is spent here that we need to see this and that. That's in a contract. It was started from. Together with sweat equity. It's. It's drastically different. But him being second, third generation of that. Like. Yeah. If that was the case.

[Walton Goggins]

Like.

[Rory]

Like, when I've been hired to do stuff, I know this is what it is and ain't my business. Like, as long as you have my check every month, there's not really much I can say here.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Nor. Nor do I want to, because it's not my. I'm paid to show up, to do this at the best of my ability and grow the show the best way I can.

[Ryan Coogler]

I got. I would get. Yeah, but you. Yeah, but how. How you. But you. But Mech is.

[Rory]

But I mean that back to your source comparison, too. Like, I remember when Scythe left Hot 97, when he had that revelation. Like, do I put my life into this logo and then realized I was expendable. And they did not give a single about me. Even though I was the most senior person in there as far as years in I was fighting for a logo that did not give a. Like, why would I even do that? No, I should have just showed up, did my morning show, and went the home and not even fought with Breakfast Club and like, nah, dude, I don't care about this logo.

[Ryan Coogler]

You get caught up. You get caught up. You want. First of all, when I was at the Source, bro, that was the Bible. Grew up on that magazine. Yep. Fucking, that's like the perfect word. Who wants to let that go, right? Who wants to see that ruined? Who wants to see that tarnished when it's literally your dreams? I was writing about hip hop as a hip hop head in the hip hop Bible. Every day. You had to tell me to go home. You know what I mean? I was in the office all the fucking time. I had a toothbrush in that bitch. I was there. I wear glasses now because I stand in the screen for way longer than I should have. Way longer than it was healthy. Now I need glasses. I did that because of my love for this place. But it doesn't belong to you. Every career I've ever worked with, every artist I've ever helped foster or get his shit back on track or put this album together, whatever. Whatever. When it comes time for them to make the decisions that they want to make, you have to remember it's not yours.

[Walton Goggins]

Right.

[Ryan Coogler]

You can see the red flags can look like a fucking parade in China. You can see it a mile away. You can scream at the top of your fucking lungs, bro. What they want to do, they are going to do. And that goes for anything that you are not directly in control of.

[Walton Goggins]

Right.

[Ryan Coogler]

And you are disrespecting them by assuming that you have more say or you have any say over their shit.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Rory]

But also from. And I'm not making this a math specific thing because I know nothing about his leadership outside looking in with that, though. Like, if you have people that are leaving, you are also responsible for the chemistry of that show. As a co host.

[Ryan Coogler]

Sure.

[Rory]

So you do have to deal with the decisions that the leader does make. Like when Esson Heideken left, I'm sure the interviews in the beginning were a little different because part of that show was gone. A chemistry was gone.

[Ryan Coogler]

Sure.

[Rory]

Like how you guys played off each other. Who was asking specific questions? Like, you have a very specific set of questions. Math has a Very specific. Like there's. That's why the show was so great. So many different perspectives. As a leader, I do feel like you should keep your team at least involved in some of what's going on with that info because they also are going to have to move this show with the decisions that you make and just showing up and being like, oh, they not here and now I gotta figure this out. Wish I would have known.

[Ryan Coogler]

I'm past that point in my career. I'm not trying to sound like Mr. Cool, but if I'm being honest, I've been in places with high turnover. You know what I mean? I know what that's like. It's not pleasant. I thought that team put numbers on the board in a real way. Me so Heineken, Mav, Biga, Space Ghost. That was the unit that Eminem shouted out. First rapper to ever like big us up. Just out of nowhere. Hey, those guys know what the fuck did? That was amazing. Shout out to em for that. I never forgot that that was the unit that put numbers on the board. Now the units changed. Is beefing about it gonna make it gonna change that?

[Rory]

No, just try to get more clicks.

[Ryan Coogler]

I tried to have. I tried. I tried to. And this story is out. I tried to set up the dinner for all of us to sit down and air out our grievances. Bigga had the spot in Little Italy. We were all supposed to meet up. Sr, Heineken, Space Ghost, me, Bigger math. We were all supposed to sit down and have the conversation. It did not happen.

[Walton Goggins]

Why?

[Ryan Coogler]

Mav said he wasn't going.

[Walton Goggins]

Okay.

[Ryan Coogler]

And again, this is public information. He said it. He said he wasn't going.

[Rory]

His decision to make is his. But I get it. But leadership as well. Again, outside looking in.

[Ryan Coogler]

My pops told me one time, when the results don't change, the why is irrelevant.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah. That's a fact.

[Rory]

Fair.

[Ryan Coogler]

I stop asking.

[Rory]

I don't even want to know at this point.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, it's like it. Let's move on.

[Ryan Coogler]

If. If I found out, would it change something?

[Walton Goggins]

Right?

[Ryan Coogler]

Why won't you cut one second? It's gonna make him pop up. I'm like, I'm talking into it. He's a grown man, right?

[Rory]

Yeah, I still suffer from that. I've gotten better in my 30s. But I'm definitely one of those people that harps on the why. And it never really changes once I know the why. But yeah, I'm one of those people that like, I need to know why.

[Ryan Coogler]

No worry enough.

[Rory]

The same way the. The stereotype is Nas picks bad beats. I think that's a stupid stereotype that hip hop is just taking on. I don't say.

[Walton Goggins]

But he rapped on a lot of bad beats, though.

[Rory]

Yeah. He's had a 30 year career. It's going to happen. And he put out a house once a year.

[Walton Goggins]

He'll say that.

[Ryan Coogler]

He also. He also. Okay. He also.

[Josh]

Take your time.

[Ryan Coogler]

This is weird. No, it's weird to say. I interviewed and I asked him about that.

[Walton Goggins]

About the beat selection.

[Ryan Coogler]

Yeah. Actually, he's one of my cover stories. One of my proudest moments.

[Rory]

This was the source.

[Ryan Coogler]

Yeah, yeah. Many moons ago, sitting in the Spotted Pig, his restaurant. We were like upstairs where no one was. Me, him and Gabe from Def Jam.

[Rory]

Shout out to Gabe.

[Ryan Coogler]

Yeah, for real.

[Rory]

Insane human being.

[Ryan Coogler]

I asked him why he did that.

[Walton Goggins]

Why did you pick Bad Beasts?

[Ryan Coogler]

Yeah. Like, I don't remember the exact words.

[Rory]

I can raise you for that, by the way.

[Ryan Coogler]

I had to. I had to. I'm in a room. I can't be. I can't be biased. And I'm from Queens, you know, this is like the guy. If I don't ask this question, you're.

[Walton Goggins]

Not asking any question. You don't ask that one.

[Ryan Coogler]

Everybody else is at the office going, what the fuck did you do? I'll never get another story again in my life. I'll never get a feature again in my life. So I asked him and his answer surprised me. Two questions I asked him that. His answer surprised me. One, I asked him, like, why he got married. At the time he was married to Kelis. And I just wondered. And he said, all my heroes have been married men. Everybody I've ever looked up to have been married men. Besides the fact that I think my wife was made for me, all my heroes in life have been married men.

[Walton Goggins]

Respect.

[Ryan Coogler]

I was like, okay. He started, like, rattling Malcolm X, blah, blah, blah. All my. Okay, got it. The Beats thing. I was like, you know, the story is, you pick bad beats. What's up with that? And he goes, I want people to pay more attention to what I'm saying than what the beat sounds like. You can't ever think that. I don't get offered every beat under the sun from every producer under the sun, for sure. And I kind of gave him, like, a little side eye. And he said, think about it. I always give you one. I know what you want. Every album, I give you at least one or two. I make it a point to do that, but I don't want the beat. He basically said, I don't want the beat to be more important than what I'm saying. So I'm not picking, like the Super Hillest beats, but I do that when it's time to. And he starts rattling off his albums and he's naming the tracks on those albums where the beat is crazy and he's going crazy. He was like, but I'm not gonna do that, like, every time. Whether you believe him or not. Whether you believe him or not is irrelevant.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Walton Goggins]

I mean, I'm not mad at that because again, I never thought that Nas's beats were, you know, and every. Like, every track on every album was terrible. But there was some joints, like, to me, you know, the battle with him and Jay, to this day, I think Ether is one of the worst beats.

[Rory]

I don't disagree with you there ever.

[Walton Goggins]

But the fact that he's on there going at Jay kind of to what he told. Overlooked.

[Rory]

Yes.

[Walton Goggins]

What he's saying, if you go to.

[Rory]

YouTube now and just type in Ether instrumental without Nas on it, you would be like, what the fuck did this guy even hear in that studio? How did this even make it onto a dat?

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, it sounds like it's not finished, but no disrespect to Brown.

[Rory]

He did. Like, he has plastics, but that's just.

[Walton Goggins]

An awful fucking beat in that moment is like, why did you. How did you land on that?

[Ryan Coogler]

Fits right into the answer that he gave.

[Rory]

Yeah. And it was effective.

[Walton Goggins]

Sure.

[Ryan Coogler]

After he said that, that his whole career just kind of like shifted over a little bit. His whole discography, you look at it way different. You look at the songs where he's really saying some shit. And those beats are kind of not the greatest that he could have found. But his whole thing to me was, do you really think I don't get those beats first? You think they don't send those to me? You think all these producers aren't sending me that?

[Walton Goggins]

I definitely think he does, but I love Nas, one of the, you know, one of my hip hop heroes. But he's absolutely insane for passing on some of the shit that I know he's heard. Like, and then be like. Like, nah. But you know what I'm saying? I really want to get off on this one.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Walton Goggins]

Cuz what I'm saying is going to overshine the. It's like, did you.

[Rory]

Did you think the hate me now beat was fire?

[Walton Goggins]

It wasn't terrible.

[Rory]

That's a great beat.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, it wasn't terrible, but Nas got.

[Rory]

Killed for doing that. Like, he can't win for losing if he went, even I'm on the side of you Owe me is fire. But Nas got killed for that. Anytime he's went the route of the beats that people want him to do, he gets killed for it.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, but I think he got killed more for. For you Owe me.

[Rory]

Because you owe me is incredible.

[Walton Goggins]

The hook and then genuine. It was just too much. It felt too industry, too shiny. Two record, two record industry.

[Rory]

It's like five entendres in that hook.

[Walton Goggins]

Like, y'all made this and said, like, oh, we. We got radio with this. Like. And I hate when rappers do that.

[Josh]

But that's not fair because Jay did that a lot too, and he don't get killed for it.

[Walton Goggins]

Every rapper does that. Jay got killed for what?

[Josh]

Well, I was young, so, yeah, Jay.

[Walton Goggins]

Got killed for a lot of joints. Oh.

[Rory]

I mean, most of volume one, he got killed for.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, Sunshine. He had the. The shiny side.

[Rory]

I'm fine with that.

[Ryan Coogler]

Great.

[Walton Goggins]

Good record, though. I love the record. But he got killed for that. Every rapper has to have, especially then. And you have to have that moment where it's like, okay, I'm in the music business now. I have to kind of adhere to what the labels are saying they want, and they need.

[Ryan Coogler]

His answer for doing. His answer for Owe Me, when I asked him, was I wanted to show them that I can do what they do while they can't do what I. I wanted to go in their world and show them I can do this whenever I feel like it. And you can't come in my world and do what I do. But your shit is so easy, and this is so candy. I can go over here whenever I want, walk in your world, wipe my feet on your carpet, and then walk right back out. And you can't follow me and go do the stuff I do again. The interview put a lot of things in perspective for me.

[Rory]

And I mean, even with that. Let's go with Naz and is Prime 94 to 2002 Illmatic. It was written I am Nostradamus, still Matic godson. Yes, you can say Nostradamus wasn't the one. Even though I think comparing to NASA's catalog, yes, it's not it, but it's better than half of every rapper's first project ever. Where are there bad beats in those? In everything I just named Wow. 94 to 2002. Tell me where there's bad beats.

[Ryan Coogler]

Well, you can't. You can't even start with the first one. That was the first super producer album that was like, the Original experiment. A bunch of super, super producers get together with this Prodigy and put together a perfect album.

[Rory]

It was written, starts with the message.

[Ryan Coogler]

I don't have the. I don't have the. The. The slander fit was written that other people seem to. I don't. I don't get.

[Rory]

I think I could make a case that's better than Illmatic.

[Ryan Coogler]

I've heard that argument before. I don't agree, but I've heard that argument.

[Rory]

It has more replay. Maybe it's just because Illmatic is like Thriller. You've heard it so many times that.

[Ryan Coogler]

You don't always go back to for whatever reason. I. I say I like. What did I say?

[Walton Goggins]

I'm not mad, but it's not better than that.

[Ryan Coogler]

Yeah, I don't agree, but I'm not even doing that. I get it.

[Rory]

I am. Starts with New York State of Mind, Part two, which I could argue is better than the first one. Then to hate me now it had. It has. Nas is like on there. Like, what do we talk about with Nas and bat beats? He said this is a stereotype that hip hop took on. And because it sounded cool, everyone kept going with it.

[Ryan Coogler]

I don't know about that. Because he knows. He knows, he said, because it's been a stigma.

[Rory]

Stigma, people always say. But nobody, nobody gives me the beats that are bad. What's a bad beat on Stillmatic, you're the man was probably the best beat of that year.

[Walton Goggins]

No, but you know what, though?

[Rory]

Because Second childhood is one of the best.

[Walton Goggins]

I understand what Mech is saying, though, in that. In him asking Nas that got yourself a gun. Now that you running off these titles, I could hear the beat and I'm like, if I didn't hear Nas rapping on that, would I love that beat?

[Ryan Coogler]

And here we go.

[Walton Goggins]

You see what I'm saying?

[Ryan Coogler]

The ceiling is different when you start comparing. When you have a rapper who you can only compare to himself.

[Rory]

Okay, but what is a rapper's job when they go into the studio, it is to produce the best song that they can make, right? So if this is what brings out the best Nas and I can say this song is incredible my ears for hip hop is for the final product of the song. I'm not listening to Got yourself a gun and going, you know what? I love this, but let me just go listen to the instrumental and decide if this is okay. No, Nas took that beat, put his foot in it and created an amazing song. But that's the point of a rapper.

[Ryan Coogler]

I think that's one of the ones where he was saying, I always give you one. I think that's one like, you're naming the ones.

[Rory]

Got yourself a gun smoking, you're the man Rewind one mic, second child Destroy and rebuild the flyest rule Name a bad beat.

[Walton Goggins]

Again.

[Rory]

I get what you're saying that everyone needs to stop saying about Nas.

[Walton Goggins]

I get what you're saying, but. But if there are some of those beats. All right, put it like this. If you run those off, right, but then be like, yo, let me hear the shit you turned down when you was making this album.

[Rory]

Oh. I mean, but that's.

[Walton Goggins]

Then you're gonna be like, yo, you passed up on this.

[Rory]

Like, then again, that's the difference.

[Ryan Coogler]

And we're not in the studio to know exactly which ones he's talking about. He turned down.

[Rory]

But to me, that's something that you can't prove. And it's like that beat we love. Maybe Nas wouldn't have done what was supposed to be done on that beat.

[Ryan Coogler]

I only. I only. I asked the question because it's a stigma. I only back it up because he acknowledged it. But again, I only think he acknowledged it because he understands that we're comparing him to him. Yeah, he's in different airspace. Jay is only whack. When you compare him to Jay. You can't compare Jay to the landscape and say he's whack. Okay, well, what about this dude? I mean, you know what I mean? When you start running into the artist where their name alone ends the argument, right? Which is. I hear that a lot. Well, what do you think about this? I mean, I'm not Nas, but when you start hearing shit, I mean, I ain't Jay. I mean, but that's Jay. When you start hearing that shit. We're now only comparing them to them. You don't compare them to anybody else. So Nas's lackluster facade. Stigma is because they're comparing everything to him. They want more. And when he switches the tone, when it's no longer the gritty, grimy sound, Illmatic, and it's the slick sound of it was written. Ah, come on, man. Come on. What you doing? They want him to follow up a classic. But then when you have the generation that came in under. It was written. Well, then the next one sounds kind of. Ah, come on. Bring track masters back. What you doing? Yeah, bring Primo back. What you doing? How come you never did the album with Primo? You know, all that shit catches up, and that builds the stigma. But the fact that he acknowledged it tells me that he knows he's turned down some shit.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Ryan Coogler]

In order to give us the joints that he's given us. But I don't disagree with you.

[Rory]

I'm not saying Godson starts with get down.

[Ryan Coogler]

I love that track.

[Walton Goggins]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Made youe look is on that album.

[Ryan Coogler]

But that's one of them ones he actually named that one. He was like, think about it. This one, this one, this one. As you're rattling them off, I'm remembering him saying that one. This one.

[Rory]

Like would I love the I can beat in the studio? Probably not. But Nas's vision of that, of what he was going to do with the kids on the hook and the message. Yeah, that beat fits what he was supposed to do and made a classic song.

[Ryan Coogler]

And he also wanted you to hear what he was going to say. That's one of those message records.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Maul]

Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days?

[Rory]

Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99 of places.

[Maul]

That take credit cards nationwide.

[Rory]

And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back.

[Maul]

Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report.

[Walton Goggins]

Amazon One Medical presents Painful Thoughts do they ever actually clean the ball pit.

[Rory]

At these kids playground?

[Walton Goggins]

Or is my kid just swimming in a vat of bacteria catching whatever cootie of the day is breeding in there? A cootie that'll probably take down our whole family. Luckily, with Amazon One Medical 24. 7 Virtual Care, you can get checked.

[Ryan Coogler]

Out for whatever ball pittitis you've contracted.

[Walton Goggins]

Amazon One Medical Healthcare just got less painful.

[Damaris]

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[Maul]

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