Checking In With Chance The Rapper

Summary

Podcast Title: New Rory & MAL
Episode: Checking In With Chance The Rapper
Release Date: August 14, 2025
Hosts: Rory and MAL (from iHeartPodcasts and The Volume)

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1. Introduction: Chance’s Return and New Album

In this episode of New Rory & MAL, hosts Rory and MAL welcome back the legendary Chicago artist, Chance the Rapper. After a six-year hiatus since his last major release, Chance returns to discuss his latest project, personal growth, and the evolution of his music and life.

Notable Quote:

Chance the Rapper [03:18]: "It's been a while since we spoke to this gentleman. He has an album coming out this Friday."

2. Personal Anecdotes: Saving Lives

Chance opens up with a compelling personal story about saving someone's life, highlighting his real-life heroism outside the music scene.

Notable Quote:

Chance the Rapper [04:20]: "It was crushing her in the door, and I had to use my Spider man strength to pull that off of her."

This incident not only showcases Chance’s quick thinking and physical prowess but also sets a tone of authenticity and relatability for the episode.

3. Creative Process and Album Themes

Delving into his new album, Chance discusses the intensive creative process over the past six years. He emphasizes the integration of visual elements into his music, aiming to create a more immersive experience for his listeners.

Notable Quote:

Chance the Rapper [05:51]: "I feel like this six years has been me like doing pushups for six years straight."

He breaks down the album into three sections, each rich with literary and poetic references, representing his growth as an artist and his exploration of deeper themes such as self-determination and personal struggles.

4. Fan Engagement and Sensory Experiences

Chance has revolutionized how he connects with his fans by creating sensory experiences that go beyond traditional listening. He collaborates with visual artists and uses technology to craft immersive environments where fans can engage intimately with his music.

Notable Quote:

Chance the Rapper [10:24]: "It's my literal visual language. Putting people in a room with my words, with lights, with a sound system that me and my friends designed."

These experiences allow fans to feel the music viscerally, fostering a deeper emotional connection and providing unique, memorable interactions.

5. Independent Music Approach and Distribution

Championing independence, Chance discusses his commitment to maintaining control over his music without relying on traditional record labels. He highlights the challenges and freedoms that come with this approach, particularly in an era dominated by streaming platforms.

Notable Quote:

Chance the Rapper [18:10]: "I love being happy. So I'll invest anything that's gonna make me happy... That flip is gonna happen through music."

He shares insights on the evolving music industry landscape, advocating for direct-to-fan distribution methods and innovative technologies like NFC-enabled CDs to create tangible, lasting connections with his audience.

6. Personal Life: Co-Parenting and Separation

The conversation takes a heartfelt turn as Chance discusses his personal life, particularly his co-parenting journey amidst a separation from his wife. He underscores the importance of maintaining a respectful and supportive relationship for the sake of their children.

Notable Quote:

Chance the Rapper [28:05]: "It's a different format of it, but we still travel together. We still, like, still family."

He reflects on the complexities of co-parenting, emphasizing grace, mutual respect, and the enduring bond between him and his ex-wife, despite their evolving relationship.

7. Public Incidents: Carnival Birthday and Reactions

Chance recounts an incident during his 30th birthday at Carnival, where a video captured him looking off-camera, leading to widespread online backlash. He addresses the double standards in public scrutiny based on gender and the challenges of managing personal moments in the public eye.

Notable Quote:

Chance the Rapper [34:15]: "It's Caribbean culture. That's what you do at carnival."

He expresses regret over the unintended consequences of the video going viral, highlighting the relentless nature of social media and the difficulty of controlling personal narratives once shared online.

8. Relationships and Collaborations: Friendship with Vic Mental

Concluding the episode, Chance delves into his long-standing friendship with Vic Mental, detailing their journey from childhood collaborators to mature artists supporting each other’s success. Their partnership has been pivotal in Chance’s musical evolution and the creation of his latest project.

Notable Quote:

Chance the Rapper [49:14]: "Vic put me in position in a lot of ways when we were younger to like, have big moments."

He celebrates their mutual growth, shared experiences, and the profound impact they've had on each other's careers, reinforcing the importance of authentic, enduring friendships in the music industry.

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Conclusion

This episode of New Rory & MAL provides an intimate glimpse into Chance the Rapper's life, both personal and professional. From heroic acts and deep family bonds to innovative approaches in music creation and distribution, Chance offers a multifaceted perspective on what it means to be an independent artist in today’s world. Listeners gain valuable insights into his creative vision, the importance of authentic connections, and the resilience required to navigate personal challenges while maintaining artistic integrity.

Key Takeaways:

• Authenticity: Chance's genuine experiences and actions outside of music enhance his relatability and authenticity as an artist.
• Innovation in Music: Integrating visual arts and sensory experiences revolutionizes fan engagement and storytelling in his music.
• Independence: Embracing an independent approach allows Chance to maintain creative control and direct connections with his audience.
• Personal Growth: Navigating co-parenting and personal relationships demonstrates Chance’s maturity and commitment to family.
• Resilience: Managing public scrutiny and personal setbacks highlights the resilience needed to sustain a long-term career in the public eye.

Listeners who tune into this episode will leave with a deeper understanding of Chance the Rapper’s journey, his dedication to his craft, and his unwavering commitment to connecting with his fans on a profound level.

Transcript

[Chance the Rapper]

This is an iHeart podcast. Ah, come on.

[Rory]

Why is this taking so long?

[Chance the Rapper]

This thing is ancient.

[Rory]

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[Chance the Rapper]

Whoa. This thing moves.

[Rory]

Stop hitting snooze on new tech. Win the tech [e-mail] lenovo Lenovo unlock AI experience with the ThinkPad X1 carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create and boost productivity all on one device. Mint is still $15 a month for.

[Chance the Rapper]

Premium wireless and if you haven't made.

[Rory]

The switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should 1.

[Chance the Rapper]

It's $15 a month. 2.

[Rory]

Seriously, it's $15 a month. 3. No big contracts 4. I use it.

[Chance the Rapper]

5. My mom uses it. Are you playing me off?

[Rory]

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[Jacob Goldstein]

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[Chance the Rapper]

See mint mobile.com.

[Jacob Goldstein]

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[E]

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[Chance the Rapper]

The volume.

[E]

All right, Rory, we are back, joined again by a familiar face. Friend of ours, Friend of the studio. Well, friend of the show, not the studio. It's been a while since we spoke to this gentleman. He has an album coming out this Friday.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yes.

[E]

And it's the first time in some years that he's putting something out. I think people are gonna be happy to receive it. I listened to it the last two days. Music sounds incredible. Music sounds great. Today we are joined by singer, songwriter, rapper, and when he's not doing any of those things, he's saving lives on highways. Today we are joined by the legendary Chicago's own Chance the Rapper.

[Chance the Rapper]

Thank you, man.

[Rory]

That was one of those things that I felt like was in the simulation when you guys reminded me, remember when Chance saved somebody's life? I was like, I forgot all about that.

[Chance the Rapper]

I got so many random things. I got us, like. Like, I'll just be catching people. I got all types of random stories of me saving people's. Remember that lady in the elevator? We just was at some. Bro, we was just at some. Who's at a haunted hotel. So we went to this haunted hotel. This lady was helping us, like, taking us to.

[E]

Was it a museum where you were staying?

[Chance the Rapper]

It's like a real hotel. It's called the. What is that called? The Chateau Maman. You ever heard that? Chateau Mama.

[Rory]

Wait, that's in la, right?

[Chance the Rapper]

Yep, it's in la.

[E]

Is that the one where the girl died in the.

[Chance the Rapper]

I think hella people died at this. Yeah, I'm sor. If this ends up being bad, we can take it out, but I think it's gonna be fine.

[E]

Death is great.

[Chance the Rapper]

But basically. Basically we was. This lady was taking us downstairs to, like, I think to leave. And we. And when we was waiting in the room, she, like, knocked on the door. So I'm like, I heard somebody knock. Let's go check. When I open the door, the lady is literally getting crushed by elevator. It's one of them old elevators, too. Like, not like a sensor. It ain't no sensor on this joint. It's just. It's like. It was. It was crushing her in the door, and I had to use my Spider man strength to pull that off of her. But, Merch, I saved somebody's life. This year, like, less than three months ago. That's separate from what you was talking about.

[Rory]

That's one of those things in the plot in the movie, he goes to the lobby and that elevator hasn't worked.

[Chance the Rapper]

Literally. That's what I felt like.

[E]

Or the lady that he's talking about, she died, like, 30 years.

[Rory]

She hasn't been one of those large Marge Sentient moments.

[Chance the Rapper]

I'm dead.

[E]

But it's good to see you, man.

[Rory]

Last six years, where. Where have you been?

[Chance the Rapper]

It's so much.

[E]

We feel like so much has happened.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah.

[E]

As a person, as an artist, I'm sure things are a lot different, but how you feeling? The album is done, is completed. I know for artists, that's like a.

[Chance the Rapper]

Journey in itself, it feels.

[E]

But it's been a while for you. Six years. But you. You've worked on music, you've written music.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah.

[E]

In the meantime.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah. I've been releasing with my fans. Like, so six years is a long time. Every time I hear that, it sounds so crazy to me. But, like, so much of that time.

[E]

It'S a long time. But it's really not.

[Chance the Rapper]

It's not.

[E]

It's right.

[Chance the Rapper]

I got kids telling me, like, man, the last time you dropped, I was in grade school. Yeah, I'm a grandfather. Like, yeah, it was like, so it does feel like a long time. Especially in that now that I'm getting closer to the release, I'm getting back to, like, that feeling of, like, you know, people just coming up to me in the street, being like, yo, I'm excited for your project, and that shit. That's a great feeling. So I feel like. But I feel like in this time, from, you know, all the Little Like Lucy releases that I put out, all the art collaborations, we were in museums, we put on a festival in Ghana for 52,000 people, we did a lot of things that were all still in line with this album and what the album talks about, what the album's promoting. And so, like, it feels like we were in, like, a hyperbolic time chamber. Like, training hard as and doing little side missions. But then, like, now the pop out. Like, when now people see it, and it's like, damn, he just damn near came off a mountain. Like, he just, like, he just came back. And with this, I feel like the writing y' all heard, a lot of the subjects, but even the. I think it takes a few listens to hear. But, like, a lot of the literary references, a lot of the, like, you know, poetic references, like, especially for. I think some of my fans that are like in the literature, in the writing or in the poetry. Like you'll see that I'm pulling from a lot of areas that I wasn't pulling from in my earlier works. So I feel like this six years has been me like doing pushups for six years straight.

[Rory]

I mean, I think it's by far the best rapping you've ever done. I mean, music is subjective, but as far as just rapping, definitely the music is incredible.

[Chance the Rapper]

Thank you.

[Rory]

Rapping you've done was the six years, was that a conscious decision or that's just how life.

[Chance the Rapper]

No, I definitely wanted to be less than that for show. But I feel like what I was trying to do was I was trying to create moments. There was a. I feel like I look at it in like three sections. So there was the film Journey, which like. And all of these like, they like, you know, permeate throughout the whole thing. But I was learning a lot about cameras and like getting to like figure out how I wanted to see myself in my music because like music videos is like the best way to get to people. It don't got necessarily a huge financial return on investment, but in terms of like how people hear music for the first time, a lot of times it'd be on Instagram, you know what I'm saying? The other side to it is hearing it in the club. But like you're gonna see that on Tick Tock, you'll see it on Instagram, you're gonna see a music video before you just hear it here, you know what I'm saying? So I focused a lot on like learning how to use a camera, how to, you know, direct, how to edit, how to. Cinematography is like the big thing that I'm like really into now is like learning how to light people, learning how to like how to like frame it in composition. So I spent a long time doing that. That's when I started doing my first, I guess you could call singles for Starline was self directed videos for like singles and stuff. And then I feel like around like 2022, 2023, I started focusing a little bit more on like, how do I like make big moments for these singles. So I started working with museums, I started working with painters and like, you know, people across different mediums to figure out how like I just said that, that visual element, how do I make it so that people can feel this music beyond what I'm writing. Because it's very dense verses, like even what people like on their first listen, like, you know, my, my family and my Friends have lived with this music for a long time. Some of these songs have been around since 2020 or 2021. I mean, and they'll tell me five years later, like, bro, was you saying this on this song? I'm like, yeah. They like, bro, I feel you.

[E]

Yeah, Now, Yeah.

[Chance the Rapper]

So I think it's like, you feel me? Like, it's very compacted. So it's like, I started working with artists and, like, different people that just understand visuals a little bit better than me on how to, like, you know, have a more layered conversation on something I'm trying to talk about. And then I feel like just this. This final little last piece of it has been, you know, really just, like, I guess figuring out how to bring my fans in. So I started working with what they call sensory experiences. So, like, doing, you know, AV or audio visual experiences where I use, like, projectors and lighting and, you know, I be having my raps on the screen now. Like, that's my. My literal visual language. Like, putting people in a room, literally, with my words, with lights, with a sound system that me and my friends designed. Headphones on a beanbag. And, like, just go through this music I'm working on.

[E]

Man, that's interesting.

[Chance the Rapper]

And it was like, I'm g. Send y' all some video of the. It's actually crazy. I'm so good at it now that it's like, I'm literally Walt Disney. Like, I could put some together.

[Rory]

So that's a. Chicago.

[Chance the Rapper]

Sorry. Yeah. I just realized. I promise you, I was not thinking about that. Damn. I just. That's so crazy. I promise you, I was not thinking about folks.

[Rory]

Hey, no, I seen Y DNA. It's fine.

[Chance the Rapper]

But I'm saying, like, on some, like, building an experience for somebody, creating a world and a context around these things that I'm making up in my head. And then I'm pulling from real life. But, like, Starline, now that you've heard it, like, I wish that. It's like. It's like once this project comes out, there's going to be, like, probably around, like, 1500, I think, is probably around the amount of people that I showed this experience in the past two years. Like, there's going to be, like, 1500 people that come out. That's like, y' all should have been the writings on the wall. That was the name of the thing that I was doing. It was like. It was like a little secret thing I did in New Orleans, D.C. chicago, a couple times. Like, LA. Like, a bunch of random cities. And I just. I Got this texting list and I text like, you know, It'll be like 4,000, 5,000 fans in a city that signed up for this little thing and tell them, you know what I'm saying? Slide through. And then I put on this whole, like, real experience that nobody's experience, like, expecting with the new music, with everything at the end, it's like. Like the way that people feel about it. Obviously the music is good too, but this whole thing around it, it's like it's a 360 experience. It's like, crazy.

[E]

Yeah.

[Rory]

How did it differ with having, like, in real life, direct to consumer feedback.

[Chance the Rapper]

On your music that is, like, you really can't get it nowhere else. I'd start looking down the camera because I know it's rappers and, like, creatives watching it. Like, you got to go to the people. Like, you got to go to the people. You can never get a real understanding of how people feel from, you know, analytics or social media or nothing. Like, like, people come and tell you a story about they little sister's life getting saved by your music or some, you know, like, them, their baby being born, like, whatever. Like, they. People have stories that they can't share with you. Really, in detail through social media or through a view or a like or a comment. Like, yes.

[Rory]

Another subconscious question. Do you think you went that route based off just a specific part of Twitter that reacted 100 to the big day the way they did on the timeline?

[Chance the Rapper]

100%. I'm so, like, let me not go so far in time just to start a run. Let me actually answer the first question first. Like, yes, because I think, like, my shit has always been grassroots. Like, I really was a street team nigga. Like, I know how to, like, work a project. Cause I've been doing this since I was 14. So my relationship to the fans and that, the way that that looks to the outside, I know the value of both of those things. Like, I know the value of, like, having a person that will silently say, I love you and I'll buy a hat. And I know the value of the. Of the perception of people seeing a lot of people wearing a hat. Like, they both have their own separate values. And I saw what was like, you know, this whatever. You know what I'm saying? I seen what was happening and I'm like, I need to tap in with the people that support and show them, like, you know, give them a pride. Because that's also a thing. Like, if you love an artist, right? Especially from a young age, a lot of Times you kind of like, you start to feel connected to them in a way that's like, I represent this person, they represent me. So when you see an artist that you fuck with getting trash, like, even if it's not conscious subconsciously, it makes you dissociate and it makes you. And sometimes it could like, you have like an actual emotional reaction to it. And so it's like, if I love this artist a lot and I love their music, and then I see like people are trashing it, whatever that next music is, I want to see people love it. You know, that matters to me separate from how much I love it. I could love it just as much as I love the last thing, but I want to see other people love it. And so I can't control how whatever their perception of what other people see is, but I can like bring them in. And so that's what I was really like doing was like, you know, these would be small rooms, it's like 50 people, sometimes 80 people. We did some in New York, some low key ones in New York at the Chocolate Factory. Those are like our biggest ones. And they was like, I think like maybe 80, 85 to 90 people, but it's like intimate. I spend like some time afterwards in the room just talking to people. And I'll give them these composition notebooks, like the same notebooks I'd be writing in, and let them like write notes or, you know, tell me their favorite songs. A lot of them will write me letters. And then I found out a lot.

[E]

Of my fans is they're writing this during the session.

[Chance the Rapper]

They're writing this in the session. They're sitting in a beanbag, basically laying down. They got headphones on, right? And in the room. Don't nobody steal my design. I've been doing this for a while. I've already steal it. That's what they do. But they know, they know where this mind is. Like, I got more ideas too, right? The room is like surrounded by these subs, these big ass subs. So it delivers these lows that give you vibration to your seat. That makes it feel like I'm on a roller coaster or something. So that mixed with the visuals, the av, the tech, I'm sorry, the text, the lyrics, like it puts you in like really inside the music. And like, there's no like loss of frequency in terms of how I'm giving it to them, like what I'm saying. But it was also like a real visceral like reaction to like a bass drop being felt in your seat. And in the floor like you're at a concert, but while still getting all the high end frequency that the headphones give.

[E]

That's how I sort of lash Fast and Furious.

[Chance the Rapper]

You said you saw the last Fast and Furious with some headphones on.

[E]

No, but the seats was moving and shit.

[Chance the Rapper]

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's not that I ain't got it to that level. I'm gonna make a roller coaster at some point.

[Rory]

This sound like my sound journey?

[E]

Yeah, no, definitely. That's exactly what it is. But so now you give them the notebook and you take the notebook back at the end and you read all everybody's.

[Chance the Rapper]

I ask them to tear out whatever they want to leave me with and keep whatever they want to keep for themselves. So like, you know, sometimes people write personal things. Like, I don't always tell them I'm a collected either. So like at the end I'll be like, hey, if there's any note that you wanted to give me, you could tear it out. But I want you to still keep journaling. Because a lot of my fans is creatives too. So like there'll be. I was just saying, like so many niggas, I'm telling them, write me notes. It's hella beautiful portraits and shit that they're drawing in the dark, like in the room. Because they, for whatever reason, a lot of my fans just be on some creative shit.

[E]

It's a different level of connection to your. To your audience though.

[Chance the Rapper]

No, it's nothing like anything I like, I see in the market. But it is like in the line of like how I feel. Like a lot of my fans feel connected to me. It's a little more personal than, you know. It's a lot of people that just with me from afar on some like, oh, I like his raps, but a lot of people know something else about me or has some other connection to me or felt some, like I said, like this permeating thing from a song where they were like, oh, that's what you be on. That's what I be on, right? And then I'll just feel that love when I. I'm walking around in New York or walking around in any city and people like, yo, they don't know I got a fucking whole CD about to come out. But they just get that love, love, brother, like whatever you. You know what I'm saying? We support type.

[E]

So now six years. It's been six years. Six years ago. I remember Rory and myself, we kind of was a thing. Is. Is Chance really independent?

[Chance the Rapper]

That was like we had to go.

[E]

Through that whole thing that was like, the chatter. But now with all of this that you're doing, this is really an independent thing.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah.

[E]

And you're funding this and you have all these ideas. As a creator, how frustrating is it at times when you have these ideas and these thoughts in your head and you want to get them out, but you're independent. And it's like, we know things cost. And it's like. But I have this visual. Once you have a vision, is it like, I'm doing this no matter what, or do you have to kind of call an audible every now and then and adjust to the.

[Chance the Rapper]

Nah, it's like we just go. And, like, that's just how it's been since I first started. Like, I. Like, I love. I guess I just love being happy. So I'll invest anything that's gonna make me happy. That's like, you know what I'm saying? In terms of family and personal things. But, like, the music, like, I always seen. I've almost damn near always seen money as being for my pursuit of music or to be flipped so I could have money to pay for the things, other things in my life that I need to take care of. But that flip is gonna happen through music. So I feel like there's never really been a point where I was like, oh, I mean, I'll get that. That's not a good investment. Cause I just gotta look at my actual life. Like, all my money is one money, basically. So it's like, it definitely, like, what I have is gonna make a decision and, like, what I can do. But I also say this all the time. Like, I go broke all the time. I go broke and get it back. Because also, I believe in Jesus. But, like, there's like, a certain, you know, investment itself that I think every artist that really loves this shit feels. You know what I'm saying? And I think the only time that people don't is, like, you know, we do be naturally creative. So some people just fall into rap, right? They be naturally creative. They fall into it. They see it as a business opportunity to do other things. And there's no fault to it. But then there's also people that's like. Was doing talent shows since they was a kid, and, like, you know, I'm saying, like, that's where I come from. I come from open mics, talent shows. Being a nigga that wanted to, you know, to share my art and felt like it was important for me to be in front of a mic.

[Rory]

Yeah, I hear that so I mean was the approach different with this one based on any feedback not only with what you were doing with your fans, but also the perception of people that maybe aren't even a chance to rapper fan but they are a social media fan and will just add on to the mob mentality of when something catches.

[Chance the Rapper]

You know, I'm be honest, like I feel like content wise it didn't. I think it's something that like weighs on my mind sometimes, you know. Cause like I'm a, I'm a front facing person. Like I'm a. Like I've made the decision even if it was at a young age. I made the decision that I wanted to be famous. So how people feel about me kind of does determine like how I can move through the world and like how I feel on a daily basis. When it comes to the raps, I feel like I and I and I think it shines through but it'll also like I'm just say my point basically. Like I feel like a lot of the content on the record is more, you know, about the world at large. It's not a lot of like there's like one song kind of where it's like y' all tweaked on me but like. And even in that it's still very like looking internally and looking at how like. So there's a song, the song is called Speed of Love. It's me and Jasmine Sullivan. And on the song I talk about like being a literal kid who got famous. Like we don't say it, but I'm basically a child star. I think anybody that gets on like from the age of 17, not saying I was even on, but I was touring with Childish Gambino as a kid. Like I had my first legal drink in Canada at like 19. So I'm like, you know, I'm having hella access, hella excess, like just having my way, shit on the flow and I'm and but I'm a kid, you know what I'm saying? Like I still haven't like. And then you know, you add on having a baby, you add on like all these other things. So on the song I'm really just talking about like how all children in this first verse, all children, but especially the ones that went to do talent shows and open mics and wanted to be famous and like kids like Bieber that was playing drums as a kid, like we searching for love, like we really want love probably more outwardly and proudly and openly than the average person. And because we get so Much adoration or adulation. Like, we. One of those words is wrong. So sorry, I don't know which one it is.

[E]

Okay.

[Chance the Rapper]

But because we get this other form that's like, it is love, but it's a different kind of love. Like, it can, like, it presents challenges for us just in like, interacting and operating and how we present ourselves. And. And sometimes it's like it's not a boo hoo story, but, like, just because of capitalism, just because of, like, consumerism, just because of how we present to these cameras. Like, people look at us like trading cards. Like, our value goes up and down based on our. Our takes and our most recent song. And like, and. And so, like, within that, like, you feel a certain. Like you feel commodified or like, dehumanized a little bit. Especially if it's negative. Like, when it's positive, then it's like, it's all good. Yeah, it's love. It's like, you know what I'm saying? Even if you get tired of the meet and greets and tired of everything, it's like, I gotta be grateful. I gotta be grateful. Niggas love me. But when niggas start saying a lot of things about you or you feel these niggas ungrateful, it's not even ungrateful. It's like for a nigga that's like. Like I said, like, if you really grow up in it, then it's like, well, what's wrong with me? You know what I'm saying? And I feel like that's something I had to work through. So overall, to answer the question, I feel like a lot of the songs are still pointed. Like I'm on this Starline journey. And when you listen to it, you hear the radical, you hear the self determination, you hear self love. You hear a lot of those things that are within that journey that I've been pushing to my fans and the story I'm trying to tell. But then there's still that vulnerability will interweave and be like, okay, this. These are places that I up. These are places that I want to grow. These are things that. Or this is how y' all tweaked on me. Like, this is where, like, even to my friends, that same song, Speed of Love, has like a whole verse about my friends and where they chose to. How they chose to use their voices or to, like, support me in certain times. And like, to me, this the best place to do it. Even though I'll be saying names in it, but even though it's public it's like sometimes, especially for the creative, like, you gotta put that shit on wax. Like, you gotta, like, you gotta not just express yourself and not just record yourself, but you gotta publish. Like, gotta put it out.

[Rory]

I mean, you tied it in with the Badu quote on that record.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah.

[Rory]

How's exact bar go with that, man?

[Chance the Rapper]

Erykah Badu, one of my favorite poets, favorite lyricist, favorite, obviously, vocalist, performers, everything. She has a piece that she did on Def Poetry Jam called Friends, Fans and Artists Must Meet. And at the beginning of each verse, she says that same line. Friends, fans, and artists must meet. Which one are you? Which one are me? The first verse or first section of the poem she talks about, she says it from the perspective of a fan and they're like, man, I just wanna meet her after her show. I loved her new song. It was dope. Ooh, ooh, I hope she don't forget about me when she gets so big. The second verse is from the perspective of her friends and her friends on it is like, this bitch want us to carry her luggage. She late for all the trips, she got all this money. She ain't gonn no money. When her shit don't sell. Like, they. It's like. And then the third verse, my favorite one, she like, flips the notepad in the air and she's speaking from her perspective or from the perspective of an artist, and she's like, niggas don't know. Like, when after taxes come, I'd be back broke trying to figure shit out. People don't know the struggles I go through just trying to write a verse that will appeal to all these different people that you feel responsible for. Like, they don't know all of these things. And this is my perspective. But I just. I always loved that piece since I was a kid. And so, like, that really drove the, like, the. That was my closest connection to how I felt was like, you know, I have to address different things that I feel important to talk about. Not necessarily just the things that people think I need to, you know, Like, I gotta. Like I said, I got a lot of fans that's like, chan, you better put out a record to stepping on their necks. And it's like, this is stepping on their necks for sure. It's stepping on everybody, but, like, it's also like, I'm doing it how I want to do it, and I'm talking about what I want to talk about, right? Yeah.

[Rory]

And I mean, I think you're addressing what a lot of people were curious to hear six years later, but also on Back to the Go. You addressed some shit that I feel like the world has been wanting to know. And what's fucked up is I had to make peace with this, too, that because we are in the public eye, I put my personal life out there so people are allowed to ask me about shit where I'm like, that's none of your fucking business to begin with.

[E]

But it is.

[Rory]

But it is. I made the choice of even putting it out there, so how could I react to somebody being like, well, we're invested now.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah.

[Rory]

You. You address the divorce, everything that's happening.

[Chance the Rapper]

What.

[Rory]

What was that transition, like, even.

[Chance the Rapper]

It's a transition still now. Like, it's like, we are. You know, we're young. Like, you know, maybe not to the Y ends, but we young. Like, you know what I'm saying? We. I was. I was 21 when Kinsley. When my first kid was born.

[E]

Very young.

[Chance the Rapper]

You know what I'm saying? So, like, we. We, like, you know, are growing, and we just. Two people that, like, definitely love each other and definitely. I feel like I'm explaining it to my kids right now. Like, listen.

[Rory]

No, but, like, it's not your fault. I didn't think it was me and Moss.

[Chance the Rapper]

No, no. It's just. But it's like. The reality of it is, is, like, everybody, you know, deals with their family different. The family I come from is very, very close.

[E]

Yeah.

[Chance the Rapper]

Like, very, very tight. And, you know, it's very important for us and for her and her family for us to be tight. So we, you know, we still travel together. We still, like, still family. Yeah, we still have family forever. Like, and it's just a. You know, it's a different format of it, but, like, we've been through every format. We didn't get married until I was 26. So, you know what I'm saying? Like, we've been through these things, and, like, I ain't gonna act like it's not tough. I ain't gonna act like it's perfect. And we just was like. We shook hands and dipped. Like, it was like.

[E]

What's the toughest part about it, though?

[Chance the Rapper]

It's weird. I think everything is, like, the same level of toughness when it comes to, like, situationally. I think the toughness is that it's a reality. I think that's the toughest part is that you might feel like you're over it and you're not over it, or you might be used to a certain pattern of operating. And because it don't work, like that you have to, like, allow yourself. Grace to deal with that and operate in reality. And so I feel like it's a. It's a. It's not a Every. I don't want to say it's an everyday thing. Like, every day we get into it or every day we good. It's really just like, you know, we. We try and always remember the importance of, like, supporting each other, loving each other, you know, not just for the sake of our kids, but for the sake of each other's sanity. For, like, the fact that we have respect for each other.

[E]

Y' all grew up together.

[Chance the Rapper]

Ye. Like me.

[E]

I grew up together.

[Chance the Rapper]

And we. Like, it's like, if you knew Chicago, like, the way Chicago works. And I hate to say shit like, high school. I sound like the nigga that would be. Like, I was a quarterback. But, like, everybody still know each other. Like, we all still go to the same places. Like, yeah, we. I see her, like, at least every other week. And that's what. As a nigga that travels a lot, you know? Like, so I don't have the same. I don't want to, like, make it seem like it's so easy because I don't have the same story or the same relationship. I know people that. They do not even recognize that they be in or they be. Is alive. You feel me? Yeah. And that's not how we. That's just not how we move. Yeah.

[Rory]

I mean, even you saying, we have to accept the reality, like, shit, I'm co parenting now, and it's been a tougher breakup just because there is no. Out of sight, out of mind.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Like, then you start realizing, maybe I'm not over this or maybe I like it for the fam. Like, that shit is a very difficult thing to go through with a breakup, because other ones, yeah, they tough, but you can just, like, block the person and just not see them. No, we gotta talk every goddamn day.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah, man.

[Rory]

And it has. It'll drain you if it's not a good. At least co parenting.

[Chance the Rapper]

That's the thing. It's like, kids is for the rest of your life.

[E]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Rory]

Yeah. It's not 18. It's not even the rest of.

[Chance the Rapper]

It's not even the rest of their life. You know what I'm saying? God willing. It's like, it's the rest of your life, you will be connected, no matter what, emotionally to this being. Physically to this being you always. So, like, if you. And then y' all in a Venn diagram, y' all both connected to the Same thing. Y' all plugged in. So I think we both are. I'm not saying we the most emotionally mature people, but we both, I think, at least have that vantage point that allows us to never go too far, you know what I'm saying? In any direction. And I'm grateful that I got somebody that is like that, you know?

[Rory]

Cause to their vantage point, this is family.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Like, it's the exact example you mentioned on that record as well, that you felt sometimes like a absentee.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah, dad. Yeah. That's like. And I love the word play on this song. Like, there's so many good ways to, like, you know, talk about a home or, like, going back home. And in that. In that verse, I guess, like, I. There's so many. Like, I think, like, everybody. Like I said, everybody operates differently. They think of things. Like, the importance of certain things differently. Like, man, I miss my kids right now. Like, this time going out of town because of how much work I've had. I just had them for the last two weeks. The amount of time that I had to lean on my mom, like, it. Like. And I ain't gonna cry, but I'm just saying, like, that shit, just thinking about it, it makes me feel away. You know what I'm saying? But they understand. They're both super emotionally intelligent kids. And I had a whole long conversation. Yeah, it is. I'm so blessed that I got girls. Cause they are very, very smart. And, like, a long conversation with my oldest daughter yesterday, and she was just, like, completely understanding. She was just like, we could, like, let's. She, Like, I'm talking to my mom. Like, I'm figure out, like, we could do something when you get back type shit. And I think there's a weight that I. That I believe is attributed to anything dealing with, like, developmental, you know, going like. Like, certain things happening in my kid's life that I don't want to miss. A first day of school, a birthday, a birthday party, you know, anything. And just in. You know, just in working, I miss a lot of stuff.

[E]

Yeah.

[Chance the Rapper]

That doesn't include my personal life. That doesn't include, you know, now. The now of, like, we gotta take turns.

[E]

Yeah.

[Chance the Rapper]

Like. And sometimes against that family dynamic, it feels like. You know what I'm saying? Like, give me my kids back type.

[E]

Yeah.

[Chance the Rapper]

And so that creates a separation itself, too. Yeah.

[Rory]

I mean, you did mention your personal life, too. And we can bring it back to a little light because I'm gonna cry as well.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah.

[Rory]

You did have, like, definitely a dad trip where you were off the map. Josh, we have that video. This. This was one of those personal lives, like, dad needs a weekend look.

[Chance the Rapper]

But look at the wall. Can you just rewind it one time?

[Rory]

Like, this is that carnival.

[Chance the Rapper]

Look at.

[Rory]

Look at me.

[Chance the Rapper]

Look at the camera.

[E]

Yeah.

[Chance the Rapper]

And then. And then look.

[Rory]

Oh, oh.

[Chance the Rapper]

And then look at the. Look off. Like, I didn't see the camera.

[Rory]

Like, this may affect my home life a bit.

[E]

When this came out, I. I defended you online because I definitely defended you on this.

[Rory]

Well, it's the culture.

[E]

It's carnival. Chance is. It's. He's entrenched in the culture. This is what you do at carnival.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Chance the Rapper]

Here's the truth. I. Regardless, I was tripping.

[E]

Yeah.

[Chance the Rapper]

I was tripping. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

[Rory]

Why do you think you were tripping?

[E]

Why do you think he was tripping?

[Chance the Rapper]

I think.

[Rory]

I don't think he was tripping.

[Chance the Rapper]

No. I think I was tripping because nobody knew that me and my wife was separated. You know what I'm saying? So I had to look at them, whether she. Your bm, your wife, your girlfriend, your best friend. Don't let your lady look stupid.

[Rory]

For some reason, I thought that was after there was the.

[Chance the Rapper]

No, that was why there was the big deal about it, where everybody was tripping was like, is this appropriate behavior for somebody that's married?

[E]

Okay, so that look off wasn't like, oh, I'm caught. It was like, damn.

[Chance the Rapper]

Like, I'm putting our business out there. Basically. It was my birthday, okay. And I was. I'm not even gonna say anything else, but I'm saying, like, it was my birthday. Yeah, I'm lit. I'm with all my guys. It's carnival. That was my 30th birthday. And I'm not trying to make excuses. I'm just saying, like, I'm painting the scene for you. Like, but basically, yeah. I mean, that is. That is, you know, Caribbean culture. That is, like, you know, a thing. But, like, at the end of the day, like, I feel like I was glad when that was over because my phone was blowing up the next day about that.

[E]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I mean, I feel like your man that was holding you up on the dub. That's classic move. Maybe he should have been grabbing phones.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah, it's carnival. That's the thing is, like, it's carnival. It's like everybody was lit.

[E]

Like, everybody's dancing.

[Chance the Rapper]

That was probably the. Like, the. The cleanest wine I caught. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, y' all are lucky. They censored yeah. The other wines I was catching.

[E]

Yeah. When the sun went down. Yeah.

[Chance the Rapper]

You know what I'm saying? But it's like. But the truth is, like. Like I said, like, don't. Don't have anybody looking stupid. And. And I went out there for fun. Like, we're. I think, at the end of the day, like, I do wish that that didn't happen that way. You know what I'm saying? And I wish that I was, you know, more protective of her.

[E]

Yeah.

[Chance the Rapper]

But, like, I think it's, you know, it's in. It's in the past. That's the reality. That's part of. It's like, you deal with realities. You go through, like, all of these different decisions that get you. Every single decision that we all made got us to sitting on these couches right now. There's always, like. Like, okay, like, I gotta deal with whatever comes with that. And also, like, do whatever I can to, like, make up for that. And also I gotta, like. I can't, like, make it seem like, oh, I gotta build a time machine. Like, yeah, yeah.

[Rory]

I mean, what was that conversation like? Because nothing's worse than, like, especially your 30th birthday. Like, you just start. Phone just start ringing like that. You don't even know the video's up. Just phone blowing up, like.

[Chance the Rapper]

No, it's like, really? It's like. Like, you're. I got a lot of people that love me, like, and a lot of people that love me but don't necessarily know everything that's going on in my life. So, like, it's mainly, like, friends, family, team press. Like, everybody hitting my line, like, yo, this going viral. Yeah. Like, you. You know, it's your birthday. You supposed to just catch the wine. Don't smack it. Yeah, yeah. Fuck is it? But, like, you know, at the end of the day, they gonna end, man. Yeah, I'm 32 now. You know what I'm saying?

[E]

Yeah, sorry. Listen, listen. When it came out, I was like, listen, man, he's at carnival. This is what goes on. This is what happens. And everybody was like, nah, he wow. You know, the women was having. He wowed for that. And then I'm just like, I get it, but it's carnival. You know what I'm saying?

[Rory]

Yeah, I feel the same way. But this is where I believe double standards exist. If it was flipped and my girl did that, it was like, nah, but it's carnival. I'd be like, fuck that.

[E]

You fucking crazy. Double standards is real. We know that.

[Chance the Rapper]

I feel like there's Always going to be gender wars, cuz there's two genders. Oh, sorry, wait. All right, let's take a. Let's take a step back.

[E]

There's a Republican. There's a Republican.

[Rory]

Let's lead the episode.

[Chance the Rapper]

Take a step back. Let's take a step back. Take a step back. Let's take a step back. Okay. What I'm trying to say is that the CIA is trying to cause division, my brother.

[E]

Yes, yes, absolutely. Yo, it's so funny how you say that and you catch yourself like, wait, whoa, I didn't mean that. I didn't mean it.

[Chance the Rapper]

I don't even say the word gender often. So it was like once I heard myself talking, I was like, what am I talking about? You know right now? What I'm talking about right now, where.

[Rory]

We are right now in your relationship, there was two genders.

[Chance the Rapper]

That's what you were getting, what I was saying? What I was saying is like, no matter what, if something happens with some celebrities, there's gonna be a lot of people that tag onto the conversation in pushing whatever their belief or stance on something is. And even whatever happened is gonna be presented to you by the blogs or whatever, Instagram pages or whatever in a way to make you have to have a, you know, hot or cold opinion on what's going on. And so sometimes I think the people that's involved in those stories don't even, like, we don't take the time or give ourselves the grace to realize like, this shit not really about me. This is about niggas wanting to go get, go, go catch up wine at somewhere else. Like this don't got nothing to do with me. But unfortunately I'm tied into this conversation now and, and it's going to, you know, it'll only last as long as I keep talking about that, so I kind of got that, you know?

[E]

Yeah, it happens.

[Chance the Rapper]

You know what I'm saying?

[E]

It happens.

[Chance the Rapper]

Did I do that? Yeah.

[Rory]

I mean, listen, if you got to get caught doing something, might as well.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Carnival.

[Jacob Goldstein]

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[Rory]

Lenovo is built for creators who don't wait for inspiration. They chase it with inventive tech, built in AI tools and seamless performance. Lenovo devices powered by Intel Core Ultra processors are designed to bring your wildest ideas to life faster. That's the power of Lenovo with Intel inside. Enjoy flexible financing, rewards on every purchase and free shipping. And students get special offers when you create an [e-mail] Candice Rivera has it all. In just three years she went from stay at home mom to traveling the world saving lives and making millions. Anyone would think Candice's charm life would about as real as unicorns. But sometimes the truth is even harder to believe than the lies.

[Chance the Rapper]

Not true. There's so many things not true. You gotta believe me.

[Rory]

I'm Charlie Webster and this is Unicorn Girl, an Apple original podcast produced by Seven Hills. Follow and listen on Apple Podcasts. This is an ad by BetterHelp. Are you like me? Do you go to the club sometimes just looking for sympathy? Walking around all teary eyed around a bunch of famous people and all you're asking them is hey, can you just like me? Because I'm really sad at the moment right now because of everything that's happening online. Then maybe you need better help. These days it feels like there's advice for everything. Cold plunges, gratitude journals, screen detoxes. Because that one's very important. Because it's very odd how many people lie on the Internet. But how do you know what actually works for you? With the Internet and information overload about mental health and wellness, it can be a struggle to know what's true and what actions to take. These days, using trusted resources and talking to live therapists can get you the personalized recommendations and help you break through the noise and whatever you're going through that makes you want to lie on the Internet. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with BetterHelp, our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com RoryMull that's betterhelp.com Rorymol this is.

[E]

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So you've been, you've been. You've been writing. What is your relationship like today with. With Kanye? Cause I would. You didn't put nothing out album wise in the last six years, but you've been writing a lot, you've been working a lot. Specifically with Kanye, what is the relationship like today with ye? Like, where do y' all stand? Do you still speak to him often? You still work with him? Are there any sessions left over, any music that came from those sessions that are on this album?

[Chance the Rapper]

No, there's nothing from those sessions on this album. There was one that would have. Could have been raw, but no, there's not any on this album. And I was gonna say, so honesty is the best policy. I haven't talked to him in a long time.

[E]

Okay.

[Chance the Rapper]

He's one of the most influential people in my music. You know what I'm saying? He was at my wedding. He was. You know, our kids have hung out together. So, like, you know, I always love Kanye, but just being honest now, I haven't talked to him in a while. I feel like I've been hella busy. I'm working on shit. He's obviously been busy.

[E]

He's been working on shit too.

[Chance the Rapper]

So, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, nah. But also, like, I don't know, I'll be trying not to take opportunities to like, diss motherfuckers or like, add too much to the story. So, like, chances, whatever.

[E]

Genuinely just want to know where y' all at, get with each other.

[Chance the Rapper]

I haven't talked to him in a long time. But like, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's just. That's people. Yeah.

[Rory]

I mean, would that be a conversation you'd want to have once, you know, everything gets a little less busy after the release and.

[Chance the Rapper]

A conversation. So the way That I think about my world is like, I'd be thinking about my day. So, like, what I got to do that day and what I'm working on to for the next two weeks, maybe six months, but more likely, what I'm just thinking about that day. Yeah, there'd be a lot of shit going on. So my relationships and how I view people as friends and stuff is just. Have I loved this person and have they ever, like, you know, willfully and intentionally betrayed me? And so I got friends that I haven't talked to in five or six, seven years, right? And so it's like. It's not like I'm anticipating some conversation, some, like, thing where it's like, all right, now it's my time to fix you and tell your ass what you've been tweaking on. No shit like that. I don't think.

[Rory]

You're not John Legend.

[Chance the Rapper]

You know, that's what that was one of my co hosts on the Voice. You know what I'm saying? Shout out to folks, too. Yeah.

[Rory]

John Legend be trying to fix Kanye through Twitter. You got his number.

[E]

That ain't gonna work. Yeah, that ain't gonna get it. That ain't gonna get it.

[Rory]

Like, you know his address, you could just go to. You go to the crib, man.

[E]

Yeah, just pull up. Just blow. I'll let you, man. Yeah.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah. I don't know what they got going on. I'm also a lot younger than them, like, you know what I'm saying? So I feel like there's also, like, different ways that people can even have friendships because we're not necessarily peers, you know what I'm saying? Like, we. You know, like, I. My first, like, album that I consciously wanted to have was the College Dropout. So I have a different reverence for him or just understanding of, like, how my life went and how it influenced things. I do. Like, I think most rappers got a rapper that was their first album and probably from they city, you know what I'm saying? So imagine if yours was Kanye west, right? So. And imagine if you worked with them and imagine all that. So it's like, for me, I think I. I just begin that, you know, I let people be people. I always gonna have my own opinions, and I'm gonna always state my opinions, you know what I'm saying? Not necessarily on camera usually, but like. But, like, you know, for the most part, I'm gonna just. I'm just be me. I'm let people be them. And so, no, there's not like a time where Like, I'm like, man, I got to make sure I hit up Kanye before I put this album out or after I put this album out or anybody, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'll be thinking about, like, who's in the rack? Like, who am I going to hang out with today? What business do I have to do? Today is more my, like, mo, I guess.

[E]

Now, listening to the album, I was happy to hear Vic. Vic Mental on that project.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah. Yes, sir.

[E]

Because that was one of the guys that was going to ask you about, like, what's your relationship? Like? Obviously, y' all working together.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah.

[E]

But over the years, this kind of been. Like you said, I. Don't you have friends that you haven't spoken to in five, six years?

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah.

[E]

Was that what it was with Vic?

[Chance the Rapper]

Vic is different. Cause Vic, me and Vic really, really, really grew up together. Really did a lot of, like, first time Vic was in a studio. And maybe my second time ever being in the studio. First time ever, actually, it being my session was together, like rapping together as 14 year olds. So, like, we super know each other. So, like, we. Us falling out. Like, we done been jumped together. Like, we like this. Really, My nigga. So I think of, I feel like our relationship, we randomly used to get into it. Now we're both grown, we both got kids. Like, it's a different dynamic and a different sense of urgency and understanding. Like, oh, my success is really your success, and your success is really my success in a positive way. Like, we used to just, you know, naturally we.

[E]

A lot of people would never admit that, though. That's dope that you just said that.

[Chance the Rapper]

It's true. Like, we, like, when Vic is. When people are finally thinking of Vic, they finally thinking of me. And when they finally thinking of me, they finally thinking of Vic. And we know each other so well. Been in so many of the same after school programs. And just being honest, like, and I've said this before, like, a lot of things that happened for me came from a snowball effect of being a roadie for kids these days. Vic used to be in a band called Kids these days in 2012. And really, no, before that, when we were in high school, it's like 2010, 2011, 2012, there was a band called Kids these Days, and it was Vic, Nico Seagal, who's like one of my producers, one of my best friends still to this day. Liam, everybody. It's nine people in this band, so I can't shout out everybody. Macy. Shout out Macy, everybody. Greg, who's still, you know what I'm saying, Plays drums for me and is one of my producers. But we all grew up together. They started getting on. They was like on Conan o', Brien, they was doing south by Southwest. We in high school, by the way. You know what I'm saying? So Vic used to let me come and like, help set up shit. But then he'd put me on stage for a verse for a song that I wasn't even on their recorded version of, but I'll come and do a verse. And I got, you know, my first person that I worked with who was my publicist. He was, he was their publicist. He saw me perform and he suggested me go on tour as a. As a fill in opener for Donald Glover. And that really took a lot of things off. So Vic put me in position in a lot of ways when we were younger to like, like have big moments.

[E]

Yeah.

[Chance the Rapper]

And you know, and I did the same thing for him. But then we would also have like little moments where like, you know what I'm saying? I don't know. We just like, we'll snake each other, I guess, like just being honest and.

[Rory]

Good balance of, you do something for me, I do something for you when I'm hotter at the moment. You hotter at the moment?

[E]

Well, not Snake, because friends don't do Snake.

[Chance the Rapper]

Well, we. You know what I'm saying? Like, we was like, we like also, you got to know, like, I'm the. You know what I'm saying? I was a. I'm really from Chicago and I really used to just be running around. So like we like in terms of homies doing Snake shit, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, Chicago is the king of that shit. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, for real. So like, I'm just saying, like, it's just about like how you grow through that shit and what like, I guess ultimately decisions you make. So there were times where we wasn't really on the same page. We wasn't talking as much. And then, and really, I would say around 2022, into 2022, me and Vic started getting closer, started recording together more and doing different stuff.

[Rory]

And who reached out to who.

[Chance the Rapper]

I reached out to Vic. What happened was. Now I'm remembering everything. It's so crazy. I had a dinner where I invited all my people that I. That have supported me in Chicago that are like real people that I known since I was a kid but have, you know, also got successful.

[E]

Yeah.

[Chance the Rapper]

Joe Fresh Goods, my homegirl, Mary McKean, who runs Salt shit. We were all kids and Joe's a little bit older than us, but like, we all like kind of, you know, around. I ain't. Not to toot my own horn, but around the time between Ass rap and color and Book Chicago, you know what I'm saying? And that's also because of so many artists, you know what I'm saying, releasing at the same time. But in this time period, a lot of artists and a lot of like, adjacent, you know, you know, creatives all had this big surge and we all, you know, grew from that. And so I called up all the people that I knew I had worked with, that had supported me in the past and was like, yo, I'm about to start working on a project. It's crazy that that was five years ago now. But one of the people that I reached out to was Vic, because it's like, I do my best verses when I know I have to go against you on a song. And I would love to, like, just have your discipline. What Vic has that I don't necessarily always have is he's a very disciplined. This nigga meditates like he does certain things. That's like, since we were kids, that was just always weird to me. And when now we old, I'm just being honest. Now we're older now, I'm like, I wish I had that discipline. And so me and Vic started, like, we would take trips out to LA together and just like, be at this house that I was renting and just be making songs, making songs, making songs. So my newest single, Tree, is from a session in like 2022 with Smino, where Smino came to the crib and kicked it with me. And Vic brought his producer Groove. They just played through some beats and me and Vic is just like, pick beats. Like, pick beats and write. Pick beats and write like. We grew up in this program called Young Chicago Authors when we was kids. And we used to have prompts and you basically come to the after school program. You get to chill for a second, and then they gather everybody at this table and they like, okay, these are the two prompts for today. It's either, you know, speak from. Speak from the viewpoint of, you know, a chair that got left in the attic. Or, you know, tell us your. Tell us your deepest fear. And these are. Those are weak ass prompts. I'm not a real teacher, you know what I'm saying? But like, we grew up in this program where we used to have 15 minutes to write either a poem or a rap or Whatever. To this thing, and then get on stage in front of our peers and have to spit that shit. And so Vic brought it back to that, really. Like, Vic was like, we need to do prompts. Like, we need to be. And I'm not 100% correct on that. That's Vic and Aja Mon also in a lot of those programs with me. So we just spent time, like, writing. And then the thing that really changed everything was at the end of that year when I was first starting to kind of just, like, feel like I was having trouble, you know what I'm saying? Like, personal life, like, just going through things. I hit Vic because he's. Vic is Ghanaian. He's half Ghanaian, so he's been going to Ghana since we were kids. And now, I don't know if y' all know, but, like, Ghana's like, popping Ghana kind of looks like, you know what I'm saying? It's like they got some shit going. So it's like I'm seeing Bro is in Africa doing. And that's back when my mind was like, Africa, you know what I'm saying? Like, now I'm much more educated. I understand a lot of things I didn't understand, but I'm like, damn, yeah, Africa lit as fuck. And I'm here going through depression or whatever the fuck this shit feels like. And I just hit him like, bro, I just need to come out there. And so I went out there, just me, no security, me and my homie Peter Cottontail, who. Who produces most of my music, went out there, Dolo, like, three days from when he said yes, popped up. And that really, like, shaped a lot of the project. It was other outside factors. My grandmother having a phone call with me that made me, like, really understand a lot of, like, my purpose as a writer or who I. What lineage I come from, you know what I'm saying? Meeting. But a lot of the things that happened in Ghana that even, like, connected to my grandmother, like, if I didn't go out there with. With Vic, like, I. A lot of the direction came from that. Like, the use of visual arts, the Connecting, the diaspora, the. You know, the. The. You know, I. I learned right before I got out there that my family had a history of. Of Garveyites and people that followed Marcus Garvey, and they was all on some, like, on some Black Star shit. And so when, you know. And I fucked with Black Star with most definite Kweli, but I don't know nothing. I didn't learn nothing from that shit. When I was I was hearing that as a kid, so I really didn't know what they was talking about. And right before I went to Ghana, my grandmother called me and had this long talk with me about how important it is to tell the truth about our histories and don't wait till my daughters are too old to, like, give them some of the harsh realities of the world and just like, this whole thing. And then I'm like, when did you get so radical? She was like, well, I used to, you know what I'm saying, be with Stoker Berkeley Carmichael. And I used to be with this, and I used to be with that. And I'm like, damn. And she like, oh, you don't know, like, going all the way back to this. Somehow it got said that I was going to Ghana. And when I said that, she was like, you know, your whole family been going to Ghana since the 70s. You know that we like, your great grandmother started one of the first black churches or first Church of Gods in West Africa. Did you know? This, this, this, this, this. So I'm like, are we connected? Like, now I'm not feeling like I'm going somewhere foreign now. I really feel this, like. Like, you know, this connection and a recent one, not like, I. I'm be honest with you. I ain't going to say it. I. I'm be honest with you. I still ain't never went to the slave castles. You know, that's like a big thing when black folks, when African American folks go there. They. It's like. It's like a tourism thing, you know what I'm saying? And. And people have told me that it has this profound energy, visual, like, physical reaction to it. I begin. I don't want that shit. Like, I'll be watching the Color Purple for fun. Like, I don. Entertain. I'm like, I don't want to see dramatic.

[E]

I don't watch the Color Purple for fun.

[Chance the Rapper]

You feel me? Like, if I need to cry. But, like, I. I'm getting that. I'm learning all this recent history about the dude that made Ghana free. The guy that, like. So Ghana is the first country in Africa to not have colonialism, to kick the British out. And they did it with this dude, Kwame and Kruma, who became their first president and he was on some garveyism shit. So that's why they got the black star and they flag. And so I'm looking at all these connections. I'm like, damn, this is a lot of stuff speaking to me. And I gotta figure out a way to like, to. To tell the story, to platform what I'm learning, Right. And then I'm like, I'm dumb as hell. I'm a whole rapper. Like, let me learn, let me collaborate, let me grow in this time and continue to produce works. So the whole time I'm doing that, I'm dropping some of my greatest music. I think the Highs and the Lows is one of my greatest songs I ever made. That song's like four years old. Five, three years old now. But, like, I still feel like I made that in this vein of, like, this road that I was going on. Same thing with, y' all know. Same thing with, you know, the. The vulnerability and 3333. Like, there's all these songs that, like, kind of have, you know, kept checking in with my fans as I was growing and. But still taking the time to, like, craft something that they could hear. That's new. Yeah.

[Rory]

I mean, you brought up the conversation with your grandmother and her saying, you have to give harsh truths to your daughters right away. Is that where some of the energy went into with Letter from Chance, which is I, you know, not unexpected. You and I talked off mic on text. You know, I grew up Irish Catholic, which I've talked on this pod about. My mother was my Sunday school teacher.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Super Irish Catholic. And I've had reservations where I've went and studied other religions, tried to find other denominations, just because it was a very weird experience once I got a little older.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Being that you have had. I wouldn't even say the stereotype, but you have obviously, that gospel in your music since acid rap.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah, it's. It's.

[Rory]

How did you feel putting that record together? That doesn't contradict because I just think it's reality of the church. But saying those things and kind of airing out.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah, it's hard putting it out. I would say it was harder than writing it and. But actually, that's not true. I felt. I do remember, like, there was what's funny about me. And I've. I found out that, like, other. Like, some of my peers don't do this, but I be coming up with concepts long before I have the version of the song. And sometimes I'll make three versions of one concept over completely different kind of beats. Whole new words. Still the same thing. I'm trying to get across just maybe a different way. And when I. Like, one of the things that greatly inspired me when I was making this project, being honest, even before I went to Ghana, was reading this dude named James cone and James cone basically is like. He's a. What do they call him? A theologist, a theologian? I don't know.

[Rory]

Theologist?

[Chance the Rapper]

Theologist. That in the 60s that was like, he invented what they call Black liberation theology. And so it's basically a, you know, everybody that's a pastor. Any of your pastors, for the most part, unless they were grandfathered in, they went to seminary, they went to school. And just like, when you go to college, you pick a master, you pick, like, a certain study, it's going to come from a certain lens and have a certain principle. So all of these different, not just denominations, but also all of these different theologies come from how they learned the Bible and who taught it to them. What's the most important thing? Is it, you know, a gospel of long suffering? Is it a gospel of forgiveness? Is it a gospel of evangelism? Is it a gospel of. What's the one that they got on tv? Prosperity gospel? Is it about the riches that you could obtain in this life?

[Rory]

Joel Osteen, Facts.

[Chance the Rapper]

There's a lot of, like, that's a capitalist.

[E]

That's what I'm saying.

[Chance the Rapper]

But that is what it is. That's literally. But I'm not trying to diss nobody's theology. What I'm saying is, like, I first started learning about black liberation theology because my grandmother got me this book. And it's basically this dude who at the time was young, he was a theologist that was friends with Stokely Carmichael, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, right at the turn of this, like, new, you know, when they made black say it loud, I'm black and I'm proud. Like, that was super radical. Like, niggas did not want to be called black at that time, you know what I'm saying? So, like, like, black people go through these different, you know, sort of revolutions and identity of being like, oh, no, we not niggas no more. Oh, no, we not colored people no more. Oh, no, we not African American no more. Oh, no, we not Afro American no more. Oh, no, we not, you know, Negroes, whatever. Like, but. But that's an important thing. Self determination is, like, a part of living. Like, you want to be identified how you see yourself. And when James Brown, like, black power basically came out as, like, like a thing n was screaming at rallies, that had people just as scared as Black Lives Matter, or if not more scared because it's a response to white power. So they like, oh, what you mean, black power? Like, so when James Brown did that, it kind of, like, changed the whole culture. And how a lot of people talked about everything, like, oh, we could be proud to be black. Which is at this time, basically, like, the N word. Like, we could be proud to be that. Okay. That shit starts to reverberate in all these other different spaces and the world of, like, the black churches, which are now starting to organize with King starting to, you know, the. The mosque in Chicago starting to organize with Malcolm. This dude comes, starts writing these books. One called Black Liberation, Black Black Power and Black Theology. One called the Cross and the Lynching Tree, which was the one that really, like, is kind of, like, gave me the basis for a lot of the album. But he just made me, like, start to read the gospel in a different understanding and different, like, you know, sense of self and self determination. And so that song was, like, something that I knew I needed to like. If I'm talking about all these different aspects of my black experience and what I see in the world and what I see wrong and what I see, right, and how I see myself, how could I not speak on the church, Right? And I got to speak on it at large and at small. So the first verse is about my own family church and just how I've watched my church. Church, you know, essentially wither because of certain politics of certain, you know, just how people treat each other. And I'm not trying to, like, I ain't trying to put my church on blast, you know what I'm saying? But I have to come from the internal first before I could be talking about other people.

[E]

Absolutely.

[Chance the Rapper]

So I talk about my church a little bit in the verse, then the second verse, I talk about the mega churches. I talk about the Joel Osteens and the people that denied shelter to people when they have mega stadiums and people that, you know what I'm saying, other mega church pastors that would, you know, spit in their hand and put it on somebody's face as a demonstration. Like, I'm seeing these things that contradict with other things that they do. And it's not a. It's not an issue with the person at all. It's about the action and, like, what does it mean to be the body of Christ? So I'm examining that for those two verses and then the third verse, I talk about the black church and talk about the things that we've seen happen. We know that they bombed four little girls in a church. We know that just as recently, a couple years ago, a man walked into a church in Buffalo and killed these innocent nine people that's praying. So. And we Know, you know, that they used to. The. The people that were doing lynchings. If you got a. If you got any of those photos of the lynchings, if you turn the camera the other way, it's the entire church congregation that's putting on this public lynching, Right? So at what point do we. The black church, which does exist, like it is a thing, you know what I'm saying? We could say that we don't want to discriminate by churches, but there is a black church. You know what I'm saying? How do we not ignore that? How do what? Do what. What does. What does. What does God tell us? You know what I'm saying? And. And I don't. And I think, like, the. All of those parts of the song are still like, an examination. They're not statements, you know, they're not meant to be statements from me. I'm playing a character. There's this, you know, in the Bible, at the end of the Bible, like, there's a lot of. If you ever heard of Romans or Thessalonians or Galatians or, like, any of the ones that end with ands at the end. Yeah, Corinthians. These are letters to. To. Corinth, to the. To. So these are the Corinthian letters, or these are, you know, these. These are letters from this dude, Paul, that were chastising the churches in these different cities that were not practicing the gospel the way that they were supposed to. And so there's a lot of jokes on some Christians. Like, we want to get into, like, Christian jokes. Like, people always talk, like, the letters that we would receive if Paul was to write a letter to the Church of America, like, if this was America's in the Bible, that whole thing would be a scathing letter. So it's like I write those three verses from that perspective, and then the last one, I just kind of examine what it means to be the body of Christ. And so to answer your question, in short, it was very hard to, like, I think, publish the song because I know that there's going to be a visceral reaction from people that feel like you talking about the church and you talking about my God. And there's also gonna be, you know, people that'd be like, oh, right, message, wrong messenger, or whatever. So, like, publishing it is hard. And then I think, yeah, like, taking certain times, like, I'll make a song and then go back a million times, and like, you know, oh, I wasn't going hard enough. Or, oh, I might have been saying, I'm going too hard on the music.

[E]

On this album is incredible. Thank you. I was telling Rory last week, cuz I think you had sent it in the chat and then had to send it again cuz it.

[Rory]

It kept updating too.

[E]

Yeah.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah.

[E]

So I was like, I was listening to it last night. I listening on the way to the studio today and the first thing, like I. I didn't. It's weird the way I listen to albums and artists. I don't hear the words the first listen.

[Chance the Rapper]

Most people don't.

[E]

It's just music.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah.

[E]

So I'm listening to the music and I'm like, damn. Like this is some of the best music I've heard from Chance. Like I can digest this. Yeah. Like I can. I can hear the. I'm like, okay, so then now I'm listening to the lyrics, I'm finding the lyrics more and I'm hearing certain little things and little. And I'm like, okay. But I was really listening because it was like, you're one of the artists that I always felt like is talented. Like super, super talented.

[Chance the Rapper]

Thank you, brother.

[E]

But I have this thing where me personally, you can be the most talented, amazing artist, but I don't listen to your music.

[Chance the Rapper]

I know exactly what you mean.

[E]

You understand what I'm saying?

[Chance the Rapper]

It's like, yo, I have that too.

[E]

I don't know where to listen to it.

[Chance the Rapper]

It.

[E]

I don't know what time when I have time to listen to it. We. Everything is consumed in my phone, YouTube and whatever the else. Dinner and you know, me family.

[Rory]

There's artists. That's just cool to say you like them. You don't really be listening to. They're revered.

[Chance the Rapper]

Right. That's the, that's what the street teaming thing. Like, that's what like I'm doing right now with this album and like really working it and like going to the people and popping up places with my cd.

[E]

Yeah.

[Chance the Rapper]

Is like you have to meet people where they are in this world. Everything is made to be super accessible and promotional. So like you. You could spend however much money you want on recording and editing and mixing a song and making a music video and doing a radio campaign. But it's like you ultimately giving that music away for free. At some point. At some point that music is going out to people. So it's like, how do you like get in front of somebody and say, hey, person to person, if you support me, if you rock with me, buy my cd.

[E]

Right?

[Chance the Rapper]

You know what I'm saying? And like, you can't get that across without being there, I think with the people. Like I'm in a space where like I really just, I love being out and being able to like talk to the people because they got stories and they got. And it's been a journey like this. I drive dropped. I dropped 10 day in 2012. So that project is like 13 years old. Is that good math? 13 years old, yeah. So like I'm basically a vet. I'm 32, but I'm a vet in this shit.

[E]

Your supporters are different, fans are different. They've grown, they've gotten older, they've had families, they've a lot has changed and.

[Chance the Rapper]

They feel a lot of the things that I had to feel early, you know what I'm saying? Like I said, I got married young, I had my kids young. I got, you know, I got on young. Like.

[E]

Yeah, I usually got young, you know what I'm saying?

[Chance the Rapper]

So it's like when you, when you, when you're growing with your fans, you gotta, you gotta let em know, like, hey, I'm right here. Like I'm right here.

[E]

Are we feeling this together? Experiencing these things together? Facts, where you at in your life with your family?

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I'm gonna ignore Josh again and ask one more question. You being one of the first people that got, if I remember correctly, the first exclusive Apple music deal.

[Chance the Rapper]

I don't think I was the first. I think I was like, I was, I was probably. I was the unsigned dude. I was the flagship.

[E]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rory]

In retrospect, do you feel like. No, no, no, not what you do. Just the streaming war that was between Apple, Spotify and even Tidal at the time when Hope was bringing everybody title was huge.

[E]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Craziest press releases ever. Bad marketing. But he had every artist like he was trying to.

[E]

Yeah.

[Chance the Rapper]

And I'm also not talking bad about anything Jay Z ever did.

[Rory]

No, not on that. But do you think the fans are the ones that suffered from that entire few years?

[Chance the Rapper]

The artist for sure. What? Think about paying $10 a month for all the music in the world. Here's where I feel bad or I feel like my space in it and why I'm like pushing so hard to like get my physical CD to a fan.

[E]

Yeah, that's vibe out of with.

[Chance the Rapper]

It's, it's. This was like, this was our, our, you know, exchange. Like I made something for you here, hold it in your hand. You know what I'm saying? Take it home, put it in the car, burn a copy for somebody type shit. And I did that hand to hand and when I You know, got to the age that I put out 10 day. I think I was 19, you know, SoundCloud, Datpith Audio, Mac, all these streaming spaces were. YouTube were all like, you know, coming up in terms of like how people wanted to access music. Even though the itunes store still was dominating how people access stuff and stores physical mechanical sales were dominating. It was like I could put this shit up here for free, get way more people that aren't gonna wait for getting behind a paywall or whatever. Like I could get these people right now to hear it and then they'll wanna, then they'll wanna buy a shirt, you know, they'll wanna buy a ticket to the show. And there was a, like a dissonance when I was trying to. Cause there was a point where I was trying to get a label deal. Like where I was going to label meetings right after 10 day drive.

[E]

Who were you thinking about going with?

[Chance the Rapper]

Whoever has some money, nigga. Like, I ain't have no money. I ain't have no money. So I'm like, you know what I'm saying? Whoever I can get some money from. And those deals were awful. They're terrible. And I decided because it was costing me money just to receive the contracts. You gotta have a lawyer that's just reading them. You getting paid just for him to read the shit. I was like, I told him, don't send me no more contracts till after I drop my project in the spring. That's when I dropped Acer app. And once I dropped Ass rap, I was like, oh, I don't need this shot. Just go on tour. But the, the that streaming time that I was on Dadpiff and Audio mic, which I did for as Rap too. As Rap also was not on itunes or no like that.

[Rory]

I got it from dapif.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah. So it's like that level of like straight to my fans. I fucked with that. I didn't think about like my whole point when I was saying that and I had interviews where I was saying it was like, I don't think it's fair that I have to sell it at this market price of $0.99. Cause what if I think my song costs more than that, you know what I'm saying? And so I was like, I was outside the system in that way. And nobody wanted to give me a deal without giving me mechanicals. So you have to have a budget in your record deal for how much they gonna press up of your mechanicals and you want them to press more so you in more stores. But you also don't want them to press a bunch. Cause that's the budget. So now you owe them money. So I was like, hey, I want every. Every deal I'm coming in. I'm just like a, like thinking I'm so fucking smart. And I talk well. And I'm like, yeah, Well, I was like, blah, blah, blah. No mechanicals, no360. And they like, hell no. That's not how this shit works. You in our building. But I championed that streaming thing. And then what happened was being honest, like, it got commercialized and a bunch of people put their money together. Labels, other people put their money together and was like, hey, we can offer full catalogs of music and basically, you know, make this thing. Cause people like, basically the music is always gonna move faster than the industry. Like, the ability to put out something is gonna move faster than the ability to figure out a way to capitalize off of it. But it's kind of a short space behind. So we used to have music and compositions where people would send like sheet music around. Then, you know, record companies were like. Or publishing companies were like, well, we will publish the music for you. And then people like, okay, we're making vinyl records. We got recordings. And then somebody who owned a label was like, let's buy all the vinyl pressing. So now we the record industry. And then it just keeps going like that. You know, Napster fucked up the industry for a second. And then that's when they was like, okay, well we need an itunes. So like, so somebody figures out a way to make the music accessible to everybody. And then somebody has to figure out a way to make money off of it. And when it got to the Apple music shit, I really was like, you know, I'm thinking about myself in the moment. I'm thinking about like, okay, they finna give me some cash, you know what I'm saying? I. I'll still own my masters. It's really just. This is a beef between them. That's how I'm really thinking about it. I'm like, this is a beef between Apple and Tidal and all them. This don't got nothing to do with me. If Tidal had given me a bag first or if this person gave me a bag first, I didn't even think I was in that space, you know what I'm saying? The people that was getting those exclusive deals was like, Frank Ocean, you know what I'm saying?

[E]

And he found the greatest loophole ever.

[Chance the Rapper]

You know what I'm saying? Those kind of people were. And then they tightened the reins on that too. So now it's like, you can't really do an exclusive with anybody because they were saying it's fucking up the money between them.

[E]

Right?

[Chance the Rapper]

But what I did by doing that, by becoming like, you know, this flagship artist for streaming and having the reputation that I have, everybody's like, streaming is good. But, like, I'm sure that y' all read somewhere that streaming not good, right? For the artist, like, absolutely. And so just like, I think it's funny that I'm always kind of like, anti. I'm not a contrarian, but I'm like, I'll see something. I'll be like, oh, I want to go this opposite direction. And then sometimes that will become the popular idea. And then by the time that happens, I'm like, well, actually, this shit not really like that. Like, I don't like that. So, yeah, definitely buy my album from me. You feel me? Like, it's gonna be on streaming. Stream it up. I appreciate all the streams, but, like, come to my website, chant stuff. I literally package them up and put them in boxes and mail them to you myself. That's real nigga shit.

[E]

Starline, August 15th. Incredible project. The music is fire. Love the. Love the features you got on there. Good to hear you and Vic working again.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah, appreciate it.

[E]

Where can they get it at?

[Chance the Rapper]

You can get [e-mail]. so I'm Chance. This is my stuff.

[E]

He's Chance. That's his stuff.

[Chance the Rapper]

Go to chancestuff.com, you order, we send it straight to you. And just so you know, this. This is a new kind of technology. It's called an NFC type. Let me show you this, actually. So basically, most niggas don't have CD players, but there's this thing called the NFC technology. It means near field communication. What you do is when you put the album directly to your phone, it'll populate a little link.

[E]

Oh, I gotta open the camera.

[Chance the Rapper]

No, no, no camera needed. That's like QR codes. That's 2008. This, like, brand new. That's 2020, 2025.

[Rory]

And I can finally see all mall's text messages.

[Chance the Rapper]

So.

[E]

So right now, online album.

[Chance the Rapper]

Cd. Yeah. So when you. When you get the album, when I mail it to you and you get in the car and you remember, you don't got a CD player. Tap your phone to this. You could Bluetooth it straight off of that and the cd.

[Rory]

That's crazy.

[Chance the Rapper]

That's what I'm saying.

[Rory]

Can I close the site and still play it? So that's the most important thing, you.

[Chance the Rapper]

Can close the site and still play it. If you got safari on your phone, it'll still work. But the, the key is like, I want people to have something from me that like when I'm gone. You know what I'm saying? Like, you have something that came directly from you and get it from a story and it's not like in your cloud or some shit like that. Like, this is. You can only get this from for me.

[E]

Yeah, that's fire. All right, man. Well, Chance, we appreciate you coming by, man. It's good to see you. Good to have have this project this Friday.

[Chance the Rapper]

Thank y'. All. Hey, let me also say this place is incredible. Like y' all face is so nice. Like be having sticky floors. And this is a huge studio and it's beautiful. Y' all got the raw set up.

[E]

Thank you, bro. We appreciate you for coming by, man. I'm that he's just ginger. Let's Chance the rapper.

[Chance the Rapper]

Yeah. No Warrior now. The Disney Hulu HBO Max Bundle planned.

[E]

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[Chance the Rapper]

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[Jacob Goldstein]

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[E]

The Disney Hulu Hulu HBO Max bundle plan starting at $16.99 a month.

[Chance the Rapper]

All these and more streaming soon. Visit Disney plush huluhbomaxbundle.com for details.

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[Rory]

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[Chance the Rapper]

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[Rory]

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[Chance the Rapper]

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[Chance the Rapper]

This is an iHeart podcast.