Episode 351 | Superstar

Summary

Podcast Summary: New Rory & MAL – Episode 351 | Superstar

Introduction In Episode 351 titled "Superstar," hosted by Matt and Leah from the Grown Up Stuff podcast under the New Rory & MAL banner by iHeartPodcasts and The Volume, the hosts delve into a multifaceted discussion surrounding the concept of a "superstar" in the modern music and entertainment industry. Released on March 7, 2025, this episode navigates through topics such as the definition of superstardom, the dynamics between independent and major artists, the intersection of rap and acting, and the enduring public fascination with high-profile legal cases.

1. Tax Season Advice Guest: CPA Lisa Green Lewis

The episode begins with timely advice for small business owners preparing for tax season. Lisa Green Lewis, a Certified Public Accountant, shares crucial insights into common tax pitfalls:

• Overpayment Concerns: “A Forbes study mentioned that a whopping 93% of small businesses overpay their taxes” ([02:18]).
• Gen Z Misconceptions: “17% of Gen Zers believed that you could write off any expense as a business expense” ([02:18]).

These statistics underscore the importance of accurate tax filing and financial literacy for small businesses.

2. Defining 'Superstar' The core of the episode revolves around dissecting what truly constitutes a "superstar" in today's entertainment landscape. The hosts and their guests engage in a spirited debate, exploring various dimensions of superstardom.

• Superstar Criteria:

  • Presence and Aura: Leah asserts, “A superstar is somebody that just has that... it's something about you that people say, I like this” ([61:44]).
  • Talent and Performance: Matt emphasizes the necessity of talent, stating, “I don't think there's a superstar that is not extremely, extremely, extremely talented” ([62:02]).
  • Public Recognition and Impact: Lisa adds, “They have to have star quality already” ([71:19]).

• Notable Examples Discussed:

  • Playboi Carti: Leah passionately defends Playboi Carti’s status, declaring, “Playboi Carti's a superstar” ([66:37]), while Matt remains skeptical, arguing, “He's a superstar, but without the music, I still don't understand it” ([87:41]).
  • Rihanna and Will Smith: The conversation touches on established superstars like Rihanna and Will Smith, highlighting their influence and the labels' roles in their careers.

3. Independent vs. Major Label Artists A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the advantages and challenges of being an independent artist compared to being signed with a major label.

• Freedom and Control:

  • Mo questions the unique perks of independence: “What is the special reason? I don't know” ([92:38]).
  • Lisa emphasizes, “being indie is the freedom to choose the what, when, where, and how” ([49:05]).

• Label Advantages:

  • Matt points out the resources major labels provide: “they could put a crazy budget behind the video” ([75:06]).
  • Leah counters by highlighting that even with labels, success isn’t guaranteed: “sometimes they try it with certain people and it just doesn't work” ([71:19]).

• Superstar Creation:

  • The hosts debate whether major labels can simply "push a button" to create superstars, concluding that while labels provide crucial support, inherent talent and star quality are indispensable for sustained success.

4. Rappers in Acting and Their Superstardom The episode explores the crossover of rappers into acting, assessing their acting prowess and its impact on their superstar status.

• Critique of Performances:

  • Discussions about actors like LL Cool J, Ice Cube, and DMX reveal mixed opinions on their acting skills versus their musical talents.
  • Leah praises their contributions but questions the balance between their rap and acting careers.

• Impact on Superstardom:

  • It is argued that successful acting ventures can enhance an artist’s superstar status, but only when paired with genuine talent and charisma.

5. Casey Anthony's TikTok Advocacy A controversial segment addresses Casey Anthony's emergence as a legal advocate on TikTok, sparking debate among the hosts.

• Public Fascination:

  • Matt expresses skepticism: “If you need legal advice, it's not you” ([24:20]).
  • Leah reflects on the macabre allure of high-profile legal cases: “America is obsessed with murder and crime” ([26:07]).

• Legal and Ethical Considerations:

  • Lisa questions the appropriateness of Casey Anthony offering legal advice, given her history: “She's definitely sick” ([23:54]).

6. Superstardom and Cultural Impact The conversation extends to the broader cultural impact of superstars, their legacy, and the public’s perception.

• Legacy and Longevity:

  • Matt and Leah discuss how superstars maintain their relevance over decades through talent, adaptability, and public engagement.

• Public Perception:

  • Matt notes, “Superstardom is not musically connected all at all times” ([96:10]), emphasizing that a superstar’s influence often transcends their primary field of work.

7. Personal Stories and Friendships Interspersed with the main topics are personal anecdotes and reflections on friendships and conflicts.

• Conflict Resolution:
  • Matt and Leah share experiences about resolving disputes with friends, highlighting the importance of emotional intelligence and understanding in maintaining relationships.

8. Concluding Thoughts As the episode winds down, the hosts reiterate the complexity of defining a superstar, acknowledging that it encompasses a blend of talent, public recognition, personal charisma, and industry support. They encourage listeners to support talented artists, regardless of their label affiliations, and to appreciate the multifaceted nature of superstardom.

Notable Quotes:

• Matt on Superstar Definition:

  • “I don't think there's a superstar that is not extremely, extremely, extremely talented.” ([62:02])

• Leah on Superstar Aura:

  • “A superstar is somebody that just has that... it's something about you that people say, I like this.” ([61:44])

• Mo on Independent Artists:

  • “What is the special reason? I don't know.” ([92:38])

• Lisa Green Lewis on Indie Benefits:

  • “Being indie is the freedom to choose the what, when, where, and how.” ([49:05])

Conclusion Episode 351 of New Rory & MAL offers a deep dive into the essence of what makes a superstar, balancing personal opinions with industry insights. Through engaging dialogue and passionate debate, Matt, Leah, and their guests provide a nuanced exploration of superstardom, the indie versus major label debate, and the evolving roles of artists in the modern entertainment ecosystem. This episode serves as an enlightening listen for anyone interested in the intricate dynamics of fame and success in the music and entertainment industries.

Transcript

[T-Mobile Representative]

You can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com heap and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Acquired card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Lenovo Representative]

Creativity doesn't wait, it moves. Shifts, evolves, just like you. And with the Yoga PC from Lenovo, your tools finally keep up. Stunning, smart and sustainably sourced yoga PCs from Lenovo are designed to amplify your creativity with AI powered performance. Whether you're sketching, editing, animating or composing, yoga moves with you adapting to your creativity, to your rhythm. With beautiful displays and the flexibility to shift from laptop to tablet, Yoga unlocks new ways to inspire and create. Because at Lenovo we believe your tools should fuel your flow, not hold you back. Yoga PCs from Lenovo support you in every step of your creative journey. So check out lenovo.com yoga and supercharge your creativity with Yoga, Lenovo, Lenovo Empowering creators everywhere Where'd you get those shoes?

[Matt]

Easy.

[Lenovo Representative]

They're from dsw. Because DSW has the exact right shoes for whatever you're into right now. You know, like the sneakers that make office hours feel like happy hour, the boots that turn grocery aisles into runways, and all the styles that show off the many sides of you from daydreamer to multitasker, and everything in between. Because you do it all in really great shoes. Find a shoe for every you at your DSW store or dsw.com hi, I'm Matt.

[Leah]

And I'm Leah and we're from the Grown Up Stuff podcast.

[Matt]

And just in time for tax season, on this week's episode, we're chatting with CPA Lisa Green Lewis about how small businesses can tackle their taxes using TurboTax Business.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

A Forbes study mentioned that a whopping 93% of small businesses overpay their taxes and 17% of Gen Zers believed that you could write off any expense as a business expense. So can't blame them. It's really important to do your taxes right.

[Matt]

Listen to Grown up stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Grown Up Stuff the Volume.

[Mo]

No worrying now.

[Matt]

Mo, are you okay if if I pick the song to start the episode today?

[Leah]

Sure, Rory.

[Mo]

Spinning through The wheels of fortune. Like, say, Jack, yo, pop your brakes. Crap, I only spit it for y'all. And like, my ma eating space packs. Y'all want me rip.

[Matt]

Why didn't you tell us that Beans rapped about that situation?

[Leah]

Cause I don't know if that was about that.

[Matt]

All right, rap genius. How else could that bar be taken?

[Leah]

I'm just saying. I don't know. I mean, if you want me to make it about me, sure, I'll make it about you.

[Matt]

I didn't make it about you. Beans made it about you.

[Leah]

I mean, yeah, probably, but that was so long ago, I can't remember.

[Matt]

I just cannot believe that you've held all this information from us for so long. For those that didn't listen to our last episode, Maul explained the time that he ate way too many weed brownies.

[Leah]

Oh, my God.

[Matt]

And then Beanie Siegel called him.

[Leah]

I got anxiety talking about it. Like, I started getting the shakes.

[Matt]

Just talking about that Beanie Seagull called you space cakes. And then what does he say in this verse? Space what? Space packs. Okay, so you want a whole pack? Wasn't even just a brownie.

[Leah]

It felt like a pack.

[Matt]

When was the first time you heard. Heard your name over the airways?

[Leah]

First time ever.

[Matt]

When did you hear this song? Or were you in the studio when they do this?

[Leah]

Nah, I mean, I don't know. That was what, 2000? 2001?

[Matt]

2002, I think that was.

[Leah]

I don't know, man. I heard so much music, I can't remember. That's why when we were talking about what came out, whether it was the blueprint or Dynasty. Dynasty. You hear songs getting recorded in 2000. Comes out in 2001.

[Matt]

You one of those, like, oh, you finally hearing this. Glad the world can finally hear this record.

[Leah]

I mean, anybody that's in the studio feels like that after you hear a song for.

[Matt]

Oh, y'all finally hearing that? Yeah, it just came out today.

[Leah]

Like, yo, that old thing? Like, yeah, we want something new right now.

[Matt]

I also find it funny that, like, Beans. Beans only does this rap for you. Like, he only spits it for more. Maybe I'm the only one that found that bar hilarious.

[Leah]

Why is that? Why is that that funny?

[Matt]

Because Beans just doing this for you is funny.

[Leah]

That's not what he said.

[Matt]

Like, he really got into this rap, like, just to do it for you, y'all first.

[Leah]

So you. You completely deleted that bar.

[Matt]

Wait, so you're not y'all? No, it's just you and then them.

[Leah]

Well, I could be Included in y'all. I'm part of y'all, I guess, Depending on who's talking.

[Matt]

Yo, that's. That's hilarious. I'm gonna make that your ringtone. Like when you call ringtones back. No, but I'm sure I could make it somehow on my phone.

[Leah]

Oh, okay.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

They still got ringtones. You can still get ringtones.

[Matt]

Having your phone ring period to me is weird. Like, whoever. Whoever has their.

[Leah]

Only thing worse than your phone ringing is when your phone doesn't ring, but it does that crazy flash.

[Matt]

Oh, yes.

[Leah]

I hate that. Like, that is the craziest shit ever to have your phone do.

[Matt]

You're a psychopath if you have that.

[Leah]

Yeah, that might trigger. I don't even have seizures, but that might. That might trigger a seizure for me, you know?

[Matt]

You know what group of people we should place on an island? The people that are.

[Leah]

Oh, I don't want to be answered that, because I could have answered that for you.

[Matt]

We were doing so good.

[Leah]

I didn't.

[Matt]

I didn't say anything so good. I said I couldn't play beans during Ramadan.

[Leah]

I said everything, answered it for you. But then you answered it. You mean you just went ahead because you was like.

[Matt]

You know the people that are on the speaker auxiliary Bluetooth that keep their phone on loud, too.

[Leah]

Like, you can hear when they got a text.

[Matt]

Yes.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And then just keep letting it rock like it's.

[Leah]

No, that's when you just go and just take their phone and just unplug it.

[Matt]

No, unplug. Get out of my house.

[Leah]

Yeah, yeah, I feel you on that.

[Matt]

But how's your week been?

[Leah]

I've seen you every day this week, Rory. How do you think my week has been?

[Matt]

I'm exhausted.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Coffee has me jittery. I'm. I'm. I'm exhausted.

[Leah]

Productive, though. Productive week. Busy, but productive. I love busy, productive weeks.

[Matt]

I. I've been kind of outside, too, on top of being so busy.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Matt]

I haven't been getting any rest. I've been on these streets.

[Leah]

Yeah. Never mind all the Bean state property. Like, let's talk about you and Draymond Green and Steph Curry. Let's talk about you hanging out with the mono warriors. Yeah, I told you he was a modern warrior.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

You went out with them people?

[Matt]

Why?

[Lisa Green Lewis]

No, not like that, but like the people that he named. The people that he named. You went out with those people.

[Matt]

I went to Draymond Green's birthday party.

[Leah]

Like Damaris. Tight.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

When did that happen?

[Matt]

When was that? Tuesday night.

[Leah]

I love when you do that when you scratch your scalp. Like you don't know.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

He lying.

[Matt]

It's been a busy week. I can't remember if it was Monday.

[Leah]

I think it was. Yeah, Tuesday.

[Matt]

We recorded with Lexi Tuesday. So, yeah, then it was Tuesday. Listen, he's our label mate, so, you know, I just wanted to go out.

[Leah]

Shout out to Draymond, Happy birthday, Draymond Green.

[Matt]

So after we had Lexi on the pod. Available now. Great. Great conversation. Lexi Brown.

[Leah]

Shout out to Lexi Brown.

[Matt]

So her and I went to the birthday party. I must be like, I have to be. Me and Lexi are sitting there kicking it kind of by the DJ booth, chilling, having a good time. An NBA player that I will not name walks up to us, boxes me out, and whispers in Lexi's ear, yo, I love your game. Listen, I wasn't with Lexi, but I could have been.

[Leah]

Yeah, but he don't care.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

He don't know that. He don't know that. Yeah.

[Matt]

Nah.

[Leah]

Well, he's six five. Six, six.

[Matt]

Nah. He was point guard.

[Leah]

Okay, so six four taller than me.

[Matt]

But that's, you know, not that difficult.

[Leah]

He could probably. He probably didn't see you. This is the elevation.

[Matt]

It was just her and I. Right?

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Did you stand up?

[Matt]

No, we were standing up.

[Leah]

Damn. Standing up. And he still couldn't see you.

[Matt]

And, like, we were like this. And then he just kind of moved his shoulder in and then whispered. I'm like, listen, she's not with me. But you could have at least, like, checked first.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Did she giggle?

[Matt]

I'm not gonna say what her reaction was because it wasn't favorable. And it was kind of funny because we talked about how men approach her on the actual episode. So to see that in person and, like, dudes only complimenting her game as a way to try to hit on her was one of the funniest things I've seen.

[Leah]

He saw you trying to set a screen. He just got over the screen. That's all. He saw you. You trying to set a screen. He was like, watch out, man. I'm getting over that. Get over that. Easy.

[Matt]

No, I was really. I was not mad because I had no right to be. But I started to think, like, oh, I must be pussy. Like, how confidently he did not give a fuck about me. Standing there talking to her was like, all right, man. Dude, I have to air this shit out.

[Leah]

No, I mean, the energy, the body language probably wasn't that of people that are in a relationship or, you know, he probably felt the just friends energy.

[Matt]

And was trying to say, me and Lexi could never have chemistry.

[Leah]

I mean, not.

[Matt]

You didn't feel it during the episode?

[Leah]

No, it's radiant.

[Matt]

It's tangible.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

No, I said you put your Sunday's best on, though, when you were a girl.

[Leah]

Claim Sunday's best. Crazy.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

When you got on, they said, damn, you got that on.

[Matt]

Not have that on. This is more dressed up than I was dressed up with.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Like, you wear a T shirt everywhere else.

[Matt]

I had a T shirt on underneath. A little matching setup and shirtless.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

You got a little matching setup If.

[Matt]

I showed up shirtless. Episode 6.

[Leah]

You gotta go shirtless under this, under the tracksuit. That's what you got to do. You gotta show the chest.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

They said you cross your legs. They said you don't never cross your legs in that chair. They said you had your legs crossed.

[Leah]

Yeah, you.

[Matt]

Now, first of all, with that couch, it's. It's tough, like, because you kind of, like, dip into it. And the only way to get comfortable. Wait, first of all, is, like, leg crossing. Supposed to.

[Leah]

Yeah, like this. That's the thing. Body language. If your leg is crossed the same way that her leg is, that's not. Means that it's. No, it's a real thing.

[Matt]

Why not? NBA player.

[Leah]

Notice that because y'all were standing. You didn't have your legs crossed.

[Matt]

I should have been standing up like this. Yeah, you should have been standing like a flamingo.

[Leah]

Like a Karate Kid.

[Matt]

Me doing crane kicks at Draymond Green's party.

[Leah]

That's what you should have been. Do it. Practicing your crane. That's your problem now.

[Matt]

If you practice. Practice your art. You can see in the dark.

[Leah]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Matt]

And we. We. We interviewed another player for don't know Ball. He was, you know, banking some episodes. And we discussed Chris Mullen for, like, most of the episode.

[Leah]

Shout out to the legend. The legend. Chris Mullen and New York City legend.

[Matt]

You know. You know, my social anxiety, whatever. I just. I. I'd be kind of out the mix. In the mix. So I found a nice cozy spot after I got boxed the fuck out and lost the lecture.

[Leah]

Had to go find your pride. Yeah, you meant to go find your PR And a bottle of whiskey. I know. Yeah, I get it.

[Matt]

Don Julio.

[Leah]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Matt]

So I go to the bar, happens to be another white person there. We make eye contact. It's just an understanding.

[Leah]

Two Republicans. Yeah, get it. I get it. I understand. I know what type of night.

[Matt]

We had some thoughts we weren't going to say out loud, but we both. We both knew.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And we just got to talking. You Know, hit it off in, like, a man way. As I'm leaving, my friend was like, oh, you know. You know who that was, right? I was like, no. No idea. I was like, it's Chris Mullen's son. I was like, dog, we just talked about him for two hours.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Five minutes ago.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Matt]

That was the weirdest in the world to me.

[Leah]

That's the. That's the. That's the universe. You know, you put that. Put that energy out, and it finds you. Chris Mullen son found.

[Matt]

That's the energy.

[Leah]

Yeah. Chris Mullen.

[Matt]

I manifested the Mullens.

[Leah]

He found. He found you.

[Matt]

Okay, well, you've been outside, too. What are you talking about? I didn't go somewhere last night.

[Leah]

I went home. I got invited. Vaughna hit me and invited me to. Was that Girls Love karaoke? Is that the name of it?

[Matt]

Yeah, it's a great party.

[Leah]

So he invited me to that. But it was raining. It was pouring. It was nasty outside last night. I was like, nah, it's nothing worse than having to walk to the spot and you going in and everything is. Your jacket is wet. I was like, nah, I just wasn't feeling that.

[Matt]

Yeah, I mean, Draymond's party, I hadn't really been, like, outside. Outside in a little bit. I feel bad for these young guys, man. The. The new hoes are boring as. Like, they're just boring.

[Leah]

When you say boring, what do you mean?

[Matt]

Like, they literally just sit there and look pretty. They offer nothing. Remember when hoes used to be fun? Like, hoes would get a party started. They just sit. They literally just sit there.

[Leah]

That's because they only speak Zell. You got. You ain't speaking Zell, you know what I'm saying? That's how you got to introduce yourself. My name is Zell. And yours.

[Matt]

Listen, I probably should go to more NBA parties like that, because all the hoes just think I'm like, one of their lawyers or something. Like, oh, he must be. He must be Draymond's manager.

[Leah]

Yeah. So, you know, get that vibe in a room full of ball players.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Were they young hoes, though?

[Leah]

Yeah, well, 24, 25 is young.

[Matt]

Yeah, they were definitely early 20s, for sure. And. And of course, you know, Draymond and Stephen, far away from the hoes. Yeah, hoes weren't getting. Yo, Steph Curry walked in with a mink on.

[Leah]

Gangster. I like that. Period in the rain. Yes, Gangster like that.

[Matt]

I never thought I'd. I thought Steph Curry was going to be, like, in his jersey. I could never Picture him in like clothes outside of.

[Leah]

You thought he's gonna wear his under armor like.

[Matt]

Exactly.

[Leah]

You know, Stephanie in the club with under armor.

[Matt]

Listen, any guy that doesn't get a shape up for his wedding, I could never picture going to a party in a mix.

[Leah]

I mean, after you finish doing what he did in the garden Tuesday night.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Leah]

I mean you have to show up to Draymond's birthday with a mink on. It's only right.

[Matt]

Yeah, I was. I was a little. A little bitter even being in there. I kind of felt like somewhat of a traitor.

[Leah]

But why?

[Matt]

Listen, man, I'm the Knicks. I'm the Knicks.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

He owns the Knicks are me.

[Leah]

He owns the New York. New York. New York is steps. Like he lost one time, I think in the guard. Really in his basketball career.

[Matt]

He's won every single time in his basketball career.

[Leah]

Davidson included. He's lost one time.

[Matt]

Davidson included is great.

[Leah]

In Madison. He's lost one time in Madison Square garden. He's like 13 and 1. To think of something like that, that's wild. Crazy.

[Matt]

Oh, then yeah, I mean I'm definitely trader then I couldn't be seen next to him.

[Leah]

It's a regular night for Steph, man.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Where were you last night when the gang was outside though? Because I was waiting on you. What's going on?

[Matt]

Well, we.

[Leah]

Oh, you didn't pull up on. I thought you was pulling up on ganging them.

[Matt]

Nah, cuz our. Our meeting went over and Marlon Craft had had his residency.

[Leah]

Oh, yes, yes. Shout out to that.

[Matt]

Which by the way, incredible if you can make Marlin's residency. Oh, it's what I feel like the New York music scene has been missing for quite some time. Actual live fucking music. People actually rapping. Like just jam session fans. Like a real community. It was. Yeah, it felt like New York and shit. Felt like Village Underground Sundays. I forgot the name of the venue. It's in Alphabet City. And I feel bad because the venue was fucking fire. I can't believe I'd never even like heard of it or been to a show.

[Leah]

It's a new venue.

[Matt]

Not. It's been around forever. That's what I was asking.

[Leah]

Alphabet City.

[Matt]

I'll find it. Maybe. Maybe post it. But it was great. I can't, can't say enough of how good that show is. Bam.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Blue.

[Matt]

New Blue. Yeah. Yes.

[Leah]

Oh, New Blues. Oh, yeah. My man. My man Doc been telling me about New Blue because they do jam sessions in there. They have like a lot of producers going in on Monday, right?

[Matt]

Yeah, that's what? The manager was telling me that, like, right after the show.

[Leah]

Yeah, my man Docman telling me to slide through. I gotta. I gotta. I gotta go check it out with him. When he sent me a video, it looked like a vibe in there.

[Matt]

Oh, I'm definitely down. You know, that's my type of shit. Yeah, but, you know, Marlon smoked that shit. Was. It was a really fun, fun time.

[Leah]

Okay, so shout out to Marlon, man.

[Matt]

Highly suggest people go to that. But, yeah, that's like back to back to back nights out. And then, I mean, I hit Damaris after the show. I was up on her, and Yomis was still in the streets.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

But, no, she was already home in my bed.

[Leah]

There's nothing like going.

[Matt]

I just figured Yomi had her out, that's all.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Now Yomi went to another spot. I went home. I'm not running. I'm not playing with Yomi ass. Like, I went home.

[Leah]

Yomi outside.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yeah, y.

[Leah]

You know when they move. When they moved to the A. Yeah.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

By myself. You tried it? Oh, I went by myself.

[Matt]

What did I try?

[Lisa Green Lewis]

I had to go upload Graham radio or do ram radio. And go to sleep.

[Matt]

Yeah, that's what you call it.

[Leah]

Had to go home and work.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yeah. And go to sleep.

[Matt]

That Ram. That Ram go get rams.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

But it was nice seeing Yomi. Yomi was. She told me to tell y'all hi, and she's doing well.

[Leah]

Y'all don't even text A no more. See how they do? Move to the A and just out of sight.

[Matt]

That's how it goes, though.

[Leah]

Yeah, man. It's all good. When I go to the A, I'm just post mad pictures in Atlanta and not hit Yomi at all.

[Matt]

She gonna keep scrolling past single.

[Leah]

Nah, y'all go ahead. She's gonna try to link. She's gonna try to link now.

[Matt]

I kind of felt away. Was it yesterday, two days ago, when yomi text you to tell, like, loyan, what's up? I'm like, I'm right here. Which she don't want to say what's up to me.

[Leah]

That's crazy.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

You sex her and say what up to her? Loyal reaches out. You reach out.

[Matt]

I mean, I don't like to just, you know, be on people like that.

[Leah]

No, I'm gonna start. I'm starting. I'm like, yo, what's up? Why you don't, like, say what's up? Say hello when you come to the city no more? What's going on with you? Yo, I don't like that.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

She said she might Slide through the day. But I don't know. She was out drinking last night, so I doubt she said that yesterday, but I don't think she's gonna do it.

[Leah]

She's still asleep.

[Matt]

Yomi's can hang in Atlanta. Last time we were there, Yomi hung with us till like 3 o'clock in the morning.

[Leah]

You telling me that's what me, Peach, you know, we was all in the lobby and Peach gave us a show. He was the magician for the night. That was so funny.

[Matt]

I completely forgot. Did we ever talk about that on the episode?

[Leah]

Yes, we did. Yo, when I went up to the room, I was still laughing at Peach. I'm like, yo, Peach is a idiot, man.

[Matt]

He had those beers gotten full character too.

[Leah]

Oh my God.

[Matt]

Yo, we had to have a magician on the pod.

[Leah]

See, we do have one. Peach, he made. He made the nickel disappear.

[Matt]

All right, he'll have to multitask then.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Did you see I forgot what the magicians name was. I feel bad, but he just did a segment with Taylor Rooks and he threw like all the cars on the ground or whatever, shuffled them and then took out her. Her phone number with each card. Like, that's fine. I'm starting to believe like, like magic might actually be real.

[Leah]

That's crazy.

[Matt]

Like it's not just, you know.

[Leah]

Yeah, if I see something like that, I might be like, all right, you know what?

[Matt]

That was crazy.

[Leah]

I might be on board. Like I might be on board with certain, certain magicians, like. Cause to see somebody do that is like. You have to explain to me how you did that. Oh, I'mma believe that you're just a sorcerer. Absolutely. You have to break that. What was the mass dude name that reveals all the magic? Mass magician has to. He has to reveal how that's done. You have to tell me how you do that.

[Matt]

What is. What is about magic that makes black people run? Like, why is that your immediate reaction when a trick happens?

[Lisa Green Lewis]

We run when we're entertained.

[Leah]

That's why we run for anything. We run when we scared. We won. We run when you run fair. Yeah, like we just run. We're runners.

[Matt]

That's always. It's always fun to watch black people watch magic.

[Leah]

Magic Johnson or like magic.

[Matt]

Like cuz either Magic as well.

[Leah]

Yeah, Magic Johnson. Because you got to see us when we watch the Showtime Lakers, we go crazy.

[Matt]

We. We've talked about what careers we would have liked to have besides this. I think I had said a chef, but a magician would definitely be up there. Being a magician would be Cool as shit. Like, if that was a job.

[Leah]

Yeah. If you really knew how to do magic, that's definitely cool.

[Matt]

Oh, yeah.

[Leah]

I'm just saying, if, you know, if you could do that with. With Taylor's number, like, you could throw a deck of cards on the floor and pick up the. It would be more impressive if he just picked up his phone and called her. That's the real magic. Like we say.

[Matt]

We say that, but I don't know. You can find anything on the Internet these days. Maybe he subscribes to, like, Yellow Pages or some.

[Leah]

That's magic. Subscribing to Yellow pages is magic.

[Matt]

A monthly subscription so you could get Taylor's number.

[Leah]

That's crazy as hell.

[Matt]

You know, it'll be super funny if he just wasn't a magician at all. He just seen Taylor was like, yo, magician, let me get your number.

[Leah]

Yeah, that's crazy. But we got to find out. Who is that? You don't remember his name? Did she post it?

[Matt]

No, I was looking for it.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

I can't find it.

[Matt]

You know, sometimes, like, they just be putting on your feed of things you don't even follow. Yeah, I think it was one of those.

[Leah]

Okay.

[Matt]

But no, I would definitely want to have a magician on this podcast. I'll do a whole segment with a magician.

[Leah]

Yeah, we should get a. We should get a magician on.

[Matt]

Yeah, I can't find it. Damn. I'm doing so bad with plugging today. Can't find the venue name. Can't find this magician. But, you know.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yeah. Oh, GS Magic.

[Matt]

GS Magic.

[Leah]

GS Magic.

[Matt]

We would love, love to have you on the show. Yeah, you're not. You're not jacking that.

[Leah]

GS. He gotta get a better magician name.

[Matt]

That is a little lackluster.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

His name's George Stanton, so. George Stanton. Magic. Okay, but his name's George.

[Leah]

All right. George Stanton stance. Sounds like a magician.

[Matt]

Sounds like an accountant.

[Leah]

Well, yeah, that too. Well, those are magicians as well. Listen, they know how to make a lot of things disappear through them Excel sheets.

[Matt]

Loy on the Great over there.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

You don't put that on. Loyal does everything above the book.

[Matt]

Of. Of course.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

All right.

[Matt]

Yeah. He legally makes things disappear.

[Leah]

Yeah, that's really all it was. Loved, Matt. I loved Ben Affleck in that movie.

[Matt]

Which movie?

[Leah]

The Accountant. Oh, Part two is coming out soon.

[Matt]

Is it really?

[Leah]

Yeah. I'm excited for that.

[Matt]

Did he just spin the block again?

[Leah]

No, but he said he would.

[Matt]

Yo, he's a. He's a plus.

[Leah]

He said if he. If he could get another Chance with Jennifer Garner. He would.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Oh, that's. Oh, Jennifer Garner. Okay.

[Leah]

I said, yo, Ben is going crazy. He spun twice on it, didn't he? He trying to spend a third time.

[Matt]

I've given JLO a lot of shit of her maybe being the problem in the common denominator and a lot of things. But Ben. Ben might be the problem too.

[Leah]

No, Ben is crazy. Ben Affleck is absolutely out of his mind, insane. Great actor, but I think he's still. I think he really believes he's Batman at this point, because only Batman spends more than that. What are you doing?

[Matt]

Come on. Method acting a little too far.

[Leah]

Yeah, come on. I've seen the Dunkin Donuts commercial.

[Matt]

Oh, all right. Anyways, what do we actually have as far as topics today? Saw Casey Anthony's losing her mind, but what else is new? Did you subscribe to her. Her legal Tik Tok show?

[Leah]

I don't have Tik Tok, and this is probably another reason why I don't. Because if you tell them Casey Anthony is a legal advocate on Tick Tock, I don't even know what that means. I don't even know. I didn't even know Tick Tock had advocates.

[Matt]

I mean, what is that?

[Leah]

What is her role?

[Lisa Green Lewis]

What is she giving legal advice on Tick Tock?

[Matt]

Oh, which, okay, I get it could be offensive to people, but don't you want to hear from the person, man?

[Leah]

Yo, she.

[Matt]

Don't you want to hear from a Teflon Dom?

[Leah]

That case she got out of, that thought that was open and shut.

[Matt]

Yo, I will say I did watch that Casey Anthony doc when it did come out. I have a whole different perspective on that. That case now. I honestly do think she killed her. Her child.

[Leah]

I don't know, man. I just think her looking at, like, body language and, you know, if somebody kills your child and they're like saying you did it, I just think your natural reaction would be a lot more aggressive. Like, yo, y'all trying to pin this on me. Like, I didn't feel none of that from her. I felt the prove it energy from her.

[Matt]

Oh, she deserves to be in jail for life. I just don't think she actually killed her child.

[Leah]

I think she know who did.

[Matt]

Yeah, I think her. I think her and her dad buried their. The child. I think the child drowned in the pool and they did some weird. And her dad helped her get rid of the body. Which you deserve to be in jail for.

[Leah]

Oh, absolutely.

[Matt]

But I just don't think she actually, like, sat and, like, killed her you.

[Leah]

Think it was an accident that happened and then they tried to cover it up.

[Matt]

Yeah, but her.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Her dedication to not staying out the spotlight, just like, if you get away with accidental murder, just, like, kind of get away with it. She just refuses to get away. Like, I don't understand.

[Leah]

Yeah. Even. Even accidental, like, if your child drowns in a pool accidentally, I still feel like if you bury a body, that's still, like, insane to me.

[Matt]

Like, if you bury your child's body, yes, you should go to jail.

[Leah]

Yeah. Like, I mean, an accidental death is an accidental death, especially a pool drown.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

But that's what makes me feel like it's not accidental.

[Leah]

Yeah, like, exactly.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

If you really love your child and your child accidentally drowns, like, you're gonna.

[Leah]

I would be. They would find me holding my child's body, screaming, if that was the case.

[Matt]

Like, oh, she's definitely sick in the head. Yeah, that's for sure.

[Leah]

But now she's on Tick Tock and.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

You know, she says she's been in the legal. Like, she's been in the field, like, for all of these years. Like, but, like, the date is, like, the day she had no choice, that she had to go to jail. Yeah, she's okay.

[Leah]

All right.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

She's definitely sick.

[Leah]

Well, I mean, everybody on TikTok, if you need some legal advice on whatever it may be, I mean, Casey Anthony is available at your disposal. I mean, you know, just follow her and. I don't know. I don't know how you do you DM on. Do you message on Tick Tock as.

[Matt]

Well, subscribe to her page?

[Leah]

I've never been on TikTok. I can't tell you if you can message somebody. I don't know nothing about tickets sliding.

[Matt]

In Casey's DMS is nuts.

[Leah]

But if you need legal advice, it's not you.

[Matt]

You know what's kind of sick? There's definitely been a couple people that have probably Casey Anthony after the case. Like, that's wild to me.

[Leah]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

A lot of people probably don't even know who. Like, that. She's probably don't even know who Casey Anthony is.

[Matt]

Imagine meeting her at the bar, not knowing who she is. Have a little quick one night stand next morning. Like, I didn't even catch your last name. Anthony. Don't Google me. You get in the car and realize who you just.

[Leah]

Yeah, because she doesn't have a. Like, if Casey Anthony walked in here right now, I don't think I would recognize her.

[Matt]

No, I wouldn't do.

[Leah]

I don't think I would know that that's Casey Anthony. Like, I don't remember her face like that.

[Matt]

Like, I don't remember wanting to have sex with her, but I don't remember her face. I don't think she would be one that I'd give the pass for. Yeah, but I mean, I don't know.

[Leah]

And she looks a lot different now. Like, is that the current video on the left?

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yeah, she's older. She's like, what, 10, 15 years older.

[Matt]

Yeah, a while ago.

[Leah]

All right, well, if you need some legal advice on TikTok, she's an influencer. She's an influencer on how to hide the body and no. Beat the trial, I guess.

[Matt]

What is it with people that have, like, crazy high level murder cases that just won't, like, leave us alone? Like oj. Cause the moment he got out, he was on Twitter every goddamn day.

[Leah]

Yeah, the world is obsessed. Well, especially America is obsessed with murder and crime and things like that. Some of the biggest podcasts in the world, murder podcast, murder mysteries, Some of the best documentaries, murder documentaries. People are. Have this obsession with who did it, who done it, where's the body, you know, I mean, that type of thing. It's just because it's a story. I mean, it's a tragic story, but it is a story. And people want to get to the end and feel like, okay, I knew that person did it, or, damn, that person didn't do it. So I think that's what people are obsessed with, just the story and the suspense of a murder.

[Matt]

Are you on the side of the theory that OJ's son actually did it and OJ just, you know, helped. Helped him clean it up.

[Leah]

I've heard that it. I mean, I could see it happening. We just, I just watched the, the. What was the Gabby Patino Petito. I just watched that documentary and Clear as day and her. And the. The guy's text messages. The mother was ready to help him get rid of. Hide the body. So we know that parents will go to extreme measures to protect their children, even if it means, you know, helping them hide a body that they, you know, of a person that they just killed. So I can, I can see that. I don't know if I ever subscribed to that theory. In the OJ case, I always felt like OJ didn't do it, but I did always feel like he knew who did it.

[Matt]

I was always.

[Leah]

I don't think. I never felt like he did it, though.

[Matt]

I was always on the side that he did it. And then I Watched one piece. That was the Theory about the Sun.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

And I believe that one.

[Matt]

It made a lot of fucking sense. So I don't know.

[Leah]

Yeah, I mean, I could Listen this.

[Matt]

He either did it or knows who. That's what I'm confident about.

[Leah]

I'm with you on that. No, I don't think he did it. I don't think O.J. did it. I never felt like did it, but I 100% believe he knew. Obviously, he's no longer with us, so he knew who did it.

[Matt]

I just think it's crazy. After you beat a murder case like that, you just get on Twitter every day and say, yo, it's the Juice, baby. Like, we didn't remember that trial.

[Leah]

People don't care, man.

[Matt]

He was. He was giving, like, sports takes.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Rewrite your own history. You can't let the last thing that somebody say about you be something that you don't want to be remembered for. So you got to rewrite your own history.

[Matt]

OJ did not rewrite his own history.

[Leah]

His history is still his history.

[Matt]

When he. Remember that Twitter video. No, I was like, yo, remember that murder case?

[Leah]

I remember you in the back of that Bronco. I do remember.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

But his personality and who he continued to be be after that case. Now is why y'all can sit and laugh when you say his name instead of. Just remember him like a Casey Anthony. Because he has come out and he made a joke of it. He leaned into it, so it made it funny to other people, which is.

[Leah]

Crazy because somebody actually died.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yeah.

[Matt]

What's. I mean, I was.

[Leah]

Two people died.

[Matt]

I wasn't even alive when OJ Was playing. I'm aware, just off stats, that he was one of the greatest running backs, but I don't have. My thoughts about OJ Actually aren't really football. It's the case.

[Leah]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Matt]

And he is, like, one of the greatest running backs ever. But I don't even think about football with him.

[Leah]

I mean, Naked Gun is a classic, though.

[Matt]

I don't think. I haven't seen that in. Since I was a kid.

[Leah]

Naked Gun class. I don't even remember classic series. Classic movie series.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

So, Rory, I looked up your question when you asked. Why are people so obsessed with, like, murder docs and things like that? One of them is the controlled fear. Like, apparently we really like fear as humans. We like fear. We like having an adrenaline rush, but we're safe. So it's that thrill, but we're safe from it. So it's like, watch. It's the same people. Why People slow down and watch car crashes. Like, the brain is naturally wired to want to investigate death and harm and fear, but at the same time, stay safe from it. So as long as it's not happening to us, we like it. And then women are obsessed with the know. It's called the know your enemy effect. Like, we're obsessed with the person, the danger that is to us, and how we can watch it from afar.

[Leah]

That's why people pull their phones out when they see some wild shit happening, like to watch, and then instead of helping the situation, want to keep watching it. Yeah, I get it all cooked in the brain.

[Matt]

Are you guys caught up on Paradise?

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yes. Oh, my God. I watched it. You watched it? I loved it. I was obsessed.

[Leah]

What is Paradise?

[Matt]

It's a show on Hulu. What would be the best way you think to, like, describe the show without giving away too much?

[Lisa Green Lewis]

It is a end of the world tale.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

End of the world tail.

[Matt]

Essentially, everything blows up, but they. The elites build, like, a society under a mountain to survive it.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yes.

[Leah]

Everything in the world blows up.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yes. A big catastrophe, like they always are saying is coming for us, like an end of the world tale. But there's one of the bunker cities. There's a bunker city that's created.

[Leah]

Okay.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

But the. The first episode, which I don't feel like this is giving it anything away because I feel like this would be in the description. The president of Bunker City is killed and the first season goes through. Why? What happened? How? Like, it just keeps flashing back to how they got to where they are. It's really good, though.

[Matt]

No, it's. It's an incredible show. I'm excited.

[Leah]

Paradise.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yeah.

[Matt]

So I'll be the guy.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yep. It's headed by Sterling K. Brown, who was. If you guys don't know him, that's Randall from this Is Us, the black guy. And this is Us. He's an amazing actor.

[Matt]

He was also in the People vs. O.J. simpson.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt]

He played what's. What's the other prosecutor that was with Marshall Clark. No, Cochrane's on the. On the other side.

[Leah]

Carl, the guy with the glasses. Yeah. Ball head.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Leah]

Didn't he just represent somebody and then drop the case?

[Matt]

Nipsey's killer.

[Leah]

Yes.

[Matt]

Which we should revisit. That was weird.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Christopher Darden.

[Matt]

Yeah, Christopher Darden. That was really, really odd.

[Leah]

Wasn't there another Darden that, like, killed, like, police or something like that?

[Matt]

Yeah, Christopher Darden.

[Leah]

His name was Christopher Darden. Okay. I knew that name. Sound familiar?

[Matt]

Or Dorner Christopher Dorner.

[Leah]

Dorner.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Leah]

Okay.

[Matt]

Why LL Cool J has not made the limited series about that I do not know.

[Leah]

They did resemble a little bit. Yeah.

[Matt]

LL would smoke that role.

[Leah]

Yeah. Is LL the greatest rapper turned actor?

[Matt]

No. Probably. Will.

[Leah]

I mean, but LL is a better rapper, has better music.

[Matt]

Yes.

[Leah]

So that attribute is up. And LL has great movies under his belt. Great roles.

[Matt]

Okay, so you're saying the best in both categories.

[Leah]

Yes. Will is obviously the better Hollywood.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Will is a way better actor than LL Cool J as a rapper.

[Leah]

Yeah, but LL Cool J is a way better rapper than Will Smith.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yes, but Will's. If you're gonna do even for even. Yes. One is good at one and one is better at the other. But Will is such an amazing actor that he will always be the best when it comes to those two categories because he's a better actor than LL as a rapper.

[Matt]

Do we count Mark Wahlberg?

[Leah]

Yeah, why not?

[Matt]

Eddie was kind of nice.

[Leah]

Yeah. Yeah. Mark Wahlberg is definitely in that conversation.

[Matt]

I just. I just was Googling. Queen Latifah is definitely has to be up there.

[Leah]

The Equalizer might be ruined in her career, though. Let's just. We got. I love. I love the Queen. I love the Queen, but she. She could have passed on that role in that. Let Denzel be the Equalizer. That's it.

[Matt]

Why is Andy Samberg on this list?

[Leah]

Andy Samberg, he rapped. I don't know about that one. Dick in the Box.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

I'm sorry.

[Matt]

Yeah, he wrote the island, those funny, like, songs. I never considered him a rapper, though.

[Leah]

Not. Yeah, we can get him off the list.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Most people would try to say that it was Tupac.

[Matt]

Yeah. Yeah. Pac. Pac might be number one.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

I still think Will is number one.

[Leah]

I still think Will pack number one.

[Matt]

He has iconic Gridlocked really did it for you.

[Leah]

That's what. Gridlock. It took you there. That was the. That was the. The role.

[Matt]

Pac and Jim Belushi is like, that's my. That's my North Star of gridlock did.

[Leah]

It for you, huh?

[Matt]

No. All right. Come on, Juice. Poetic justice, both we could consider classic movies. Correct.

[Leah]

Juice and Poetic Justice. You get no debate from me. Yes.

[Matt]

On top of Pac's catalog. Yes. You can definitely debate LL Cool J versus Tupac in this category.

[Leah]

LL Cool J versus Tupac.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Because you can't debate Will, because sometimes.

[Leah]

Will is the best evidence.

[Matt]

I mean, I. I think Will's the best ever. But you just said I'm the one, B. The LL Cool J verse. Pac, I think Pac takes that I ain't gonna lie. What's some of your favorite LL movies? Swat.

[Leah]

Hey, Hey.

[Matt]

I like that.

[Leah]

Great movie.

[Matt]

I like swat. Don't.

[Leah]

Great movie. We're not doing that. Love swat. I mean, in too deep. Classic. To me, that's a classic.

[Matt]

Yeah. I'm trying to think. I don't know Cool J. I'm sorry.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Deliver Us from Eva is a black classic. I don't know if y'all aren't that time. Deliver Us from Evil Kingdom Come is also a black classic.

[Matt]

Think Deep Blue Sea.

[Leah]

I. I was scared back to this fear thing.

[Matt]

I haven't been in the water since.

[Leah]

I haven't been on vacation since Deep Blue Sea came out.

[Matt]

Any given Sunday, you already know how I feel. Feel about that movie.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Damn. Last Holiday with Queen Latifah. Damn. You think there was going bar for bar when the kid got.

[Matt]

I might walk. I may walk back my take. He's got some classic.

[Leah]

And I mean. And what was his sitcom name? Was it in the House? In the House. Right.

[Matt]

I didn't watch that.

[Leah]

You didn't watch in the House? Damn, I'm old.

[Matt]

Iced Tea.

[Leah]

I see is definitely, definitely on that list.

[Matt]

I gotta put him up there.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

I see was keeping the lights on at Law Order.

[Leah]

He's on that list.

[Matt]

Oh, Andre 3000. He doesn't have a lot of movies, but four brothers.

[Leah]

Idol, love, idle. Wow.

[Matt]

DMX.

[Leah]

Ice Cube up there for sure.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

DMX is up there.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Matt]

How do we not even mention Cube?

[Leah]

Ice Cube is probably the greatest rapper.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

See, I think Ice Cube is above Tupac.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Leah]

Ice Cube, yeah, For sure. He said the Police.

[Matt]

No, Ice Cube has a insane discography. Plus a bunch of classic movies.

[Leah]

Classics.

[Matt]

Yeah. Now, I think the debate would be Ice Cube versus Will Smith.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Ice Cube versus Will Smith.

[Matt]

That's a tough one.

[Leah]

Yeah. What was the Ice Cube movie? When they was in the warehouse and they got locked in, they was trying to find the. The, the. The. The. The hidden. Like the jewelry, like the. The gold and stuff that was in the.

[Matt]

All about the measurements.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

No Trespass.

[Leah]

Trespass. Y'all don't know nothing about Trespass. Classic movie.

[Matt]

How could we not bring up the game and Belly too?

[Leah]

We not doing that.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Please.

[Leah]

We're not. We never Game.

[Matt]

Does game have a classic discography?

[Leah]

No.

[Matt]

Yes.

[Leah]

Music. Yeah, absolutely.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

But not film.

[Matt]

Plus a classic movie.

[Leah]

Belly too, is terrible. We. I don't even talk about that movie. I don't know why they did.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

What about Nas, though? We gonna bring up what about Nas?

[Leah]

You know what's crazy?

[Matt]

About Belly forced me to say something bad about one of my favorite rappers.

[Leah]

Nas only did one movie though, right?

[Matt]

Thank God.

[Leah]

Nah, son, you gotta elevate above this madness.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Rory style, because that's one of your favorite movies.

[Matt]

Oh, it's incredible. But it's one of the worst action movies ever as well. That's the genius of Hype Williams. We talk about that incredible movie with awful, awful acting.

[Leah]

I don't.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

But D. I think dmx. DMX is a good actor.

[Matt]

Incredible. Cradles of Grave. No X absolutely is amazing. That's what made it even crazier because you have an incredible actor in every scene with some of the worst actors of all time. Like, the difference in the range was hard to watch.

[Leah]

Belly is the best worst movie ever.

[Matt]

Yeah, it's a.

[Leah]

It's a cult classic, without a doubt.

[Matt]

But is T Boz and Nas the worst acted couple of all time?

[Lisa Green Lewis]

I mean, like, what the fuck?

[Matt]

That was a spot on.

[Leah]

Nah, I kind of believed her when she walked in the house and them niggas was sitting in the living room. I kind of was like, T Boz got in her acting bag on that shit.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

For real.

[Leah]

That was a good scene. We ain't gonna do T boss like that. That was a good scene. She looked. She did great in that scene. She did great.

[Matt]

Imagine getting shot in the leg and just going home and being like, Africa.

[Leah]

We out give a.

[Matt]

Let's go to the hospital, Nas.

[Leah]

Nah, we out go straight to the airport, I think.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yeah. It's just that that first opening scene really get people because it's the greatest opening scene of a movie of all time. And then some bullshit. It's some bullshit.

[Leah]

Ice Cube might be it, though. He might be the greatest rapper turned actor there.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

I'm still gonna go, Will. I think Will Smith is a way better actor than Ice Cube.

[Leah]

I don't know, man.

[Matt]

Gyrule. Fast and the Furious. No. Monica. Best line ever.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Listen. Bow wow in Fast and Furious. Bow. Bow wow.

[Matt]

Bow wow kind of smoke. Lottery ticket, too.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Bow wow got a couple of them.

[Leah]

Ludicrous. Got some good films too, though.

[Matt]

Oh, I even think. Yeah. Looted.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Damn.

[Matt]

Can we pull up Bow Wow's filmography? Come on. Like Mike.

[Leah]

Robots did it for you.

[Matt]

I like robots.

[Leah]

I do, too. Lottery ticket was good.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Johnson's family vacation.

[Leah]

Like Mike, obviously.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Madea's big, happy family.

[Matt]

All right, I'm gonna go. Will Smith, Ice Cube, Tupac, Queen Latifah. I don't know who to put for my five. Maybe LL's there. I think that's my top five.

[Leah]

I'm not mad at that. As long as Cube and Will Pac got classic movies, though, I gotta put Pac there.

[Matt]

Machine Gun Kelly.

[Leah]

Llc. I said Q, right? Yeah. Cube, Will Pod, Method Man, I ain't gonna lie what he's doing with the Power series, man. Yeah, I'm with good acting.

[Matt]

I'm with you. I mean, does all of state property count?

[Leah]

Don't put them all together.

[Matt]

I mean, they have classic movies. Yeah, put Hoven there too.

[Leah]

He didn't even say nothing in those. He was in the studio. He. No, I got that one scene with. With Dame in the car.

[Matt]

Yeah, like when they robbed the same house.

[Leah]

Yeah, but I feel like that's it. I feel like Jay wasn't acting.

[Matt]

I feel like I had to talk to Biggs.

[Leah]

No, I feel like he was like, I don't even want to be here. But it. I. I'll play myself.

[Matt]

And I mean, Streets is Watching had some terrible acting, but that's expected.

[Leah]

It was young and just had a camera in the projects.

[Matt]

Like, oh, no, they. They smoked. It was an incredible movie, but some of the worst acting as well.

[Leah]

Streets is Watching is such a brilliant idea, though, like, especially for a rapper to do that at that time. I don't think we still haven't seen another rapper do something like that.

[Matt]

I mean, we know Jay has been a shooter before, but when he was trying to back out in the project, shooting was one of the funniest scenes ever switched hands. Gangster Jay can't do anything athletic at all. He. If that was a shootout, he was getting shot for sure. And at the worst aim ever. All the. The fake shots going against the project.

[Leah]

Yeah, man.

[Matt]

Like, who is shooting right now?

[Leah]

Spray this whole up. Spray this whole up.

[Matt]

I feel like that's. That's crazy that Von got to be in that and they didn't, you know, bring you in the mix. I know they did it in Marcy, but I felt like Von's role should have went to you.

[Leah]

I'm not from Marcy.

[Matt]

Yeah, but. But I mean, Damon Biggs pulled up. Like, they could have brought you from Harlem.

[Leah]

Nah, it was a Mossy. That was a Mossy movie. Made sense.

[T-Mobile Representative]

You can count on T MOBILE to help keep you connected. From big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile, keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com Keep and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Required card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Lenovo Representative]

Don't miss your window of opportunity. Upgrade your space now during blinds.com's anniversary sale and save up to 50% site wide. Happy Anniversary Blindstock. Elevate your windows with the one online retailer of custom window treatments. Blinds.com offers hundreds of premium window treatment options. Choose from woven wood and Roman shades to blinds, motorized shades and more, all designed to fit your budget without sacrificing quality. Blinds.com brings the showroom to you with free virtual consultations and samples delivered directly to your door. Fast and free. Our design experts can help schedule a professional measure and installation, plus guidance for DIYers too. Blinds.com has been trusted for 29 years, earning thousands of five star reviews. Shop with confidence, knowing you'll get upfront pricing, no hidden fees and Blinds.com's 100% satisfaction guarantee. But hurry, these savings won't last. Shop Blinds.com's anniversary sale happening right now for up to 50% off site wide. Save up to 50% [e-mail] rules and restrictions may apply.

[Matt]

Hi, I'm Matt.

[Leah]

And I'm Leah and we're from the Grown Up Stuff podcast.

[Matt]

And just in time for tax season. On this week's episod, we're chatting with CPA Lisa Green Lewis about how small businesses can tackle their taxes using TurboTax Business.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

A Forbes study mentioned that a whopping 93% of small businesses overpay their taxes and 17% of Gen Zers believed that you could write off any expense as a business expense. So can't blame them. It's really important to do your taxes right.

[Matt]

Listen to Grown up stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Grown Up Stuff.

[JD]

The battlefield is set, the stakes are high. The only thing standing between you and victory. Nothing. Ascend to the pinnacle of gaming greatness with Lenovo Legion laptops, Towers and the new award winning Legion goes Go, the world's first officially licensed handheld powered by SteamOS. Legion relentlessly pushes gaming technology forward with towers built for raw untamed power laptops with best in class AI tuning that sharpen your reflexes and the Legion Go, a handheld for serious gaming on the go. Stay ahead with lightning fast responsiveness on a stunning 16 inch PureSight display. Keep your cool with cold front thermal technology engineered for marathon sessions and with all day battery life. The game never stops until you Say so. So check out lenovo.com legion Lenovo, Lenovo. Empowering creators everywhere.

[Matt]

Why was the Internet killing our guy? JD Saw yesterday. They was tearing him up.

[Leah]

Disrespectful to the legend.

[Matt]

I mean, I guess he was just asking a rhetorical question. Wasn't suggesting the. Otherwise put. What did he say?

[Leah]

He said, I'm a little lost. Well, he tweeted, I'm a little lost. Can somebody tell me what the goal of being an independent artist is today? Because all of the things that people are chasing is made is shit that major artists do. What's the thing that indie artists do that make it special? And I saw LaRussell chimed in, and he said. I think he said, own the music. You know, if you know anything about LaRussell, makes sense that he would chime in on that. But I understand what JD Was saying. I think he was kind of saying, you know, you want to be independent, but then you want to, you know, do the things that major artists do. You want the things that major artists want. You want the lights, the glitz, the glamour. You don't want the grind. You don't want the. You want to be on the same stage as a major artist when you're independent. And it takes a lot. A lot more work when you're independent to kind of be on the same, you know, field and the same level as a major artist and get the same looks that major artists get. So I think, you know, it was a rhetorical question that JD Was asking, like, how do you want to be. You want. You say you want to be independent, but you want to look like a major artist.

[Matt]

I mean, I don't get it, because it's not like people say, I want to go be indie, but I don't want to be successful. Like, no, the goal is to get your music to as many possible people that you can absolutely make money off it, hopefully change. Change people's lives. I don't understand what major and independent even has to do with what the end goal for most artists is, which is to be a star and to get your music heard by as many people as you can at a price that makes you rich.

[Leah]

Like, again, I think it's subjective, though. Like, what. What's a star, as far as you're concerned, as an artist to. To the specific artist. What is a star to you? What does a star look like? A star.

[Matt]

I don't know any stars that are independent. I know extremely successful artists. Like, I watched Russ sell out Radio City and Barclays center independently. Russ, I wouldn't say, is a superstar. He's definitely up there as far as popular. Popularity. But I don't know if I know any superstars that are independent.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Is independent now.

[Matt]

Now, Now?

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yeah.

[Leah]

Like, I mean, that's, you know. But you.

[Matt]

Hove is independent now.

[Leah]

Yeah. Like, it's. You know. But again, Russ is a great example. Russ is somebody who you might not be. You know, you don't think about when you start talking about superstars. But if you go to a Rush show.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Leah]

And you see it. So the. The venues that he's able to sell out, that's superstar.

[Matt]

But why would JD not understand that some artists just don't want their music owned in perpetuity forever? Like, even the way he's seeing people sell their catalogs, like.

[Leah]

Well, he's asking.

[Matt]

You can't sell your full catalog if you're not completely independent.

[Leah]

But he's asking. But he's asking, what's the goal of being an independent artist today? Because all the things that people are chasing is what the major artists get.

[Matt]

Yeah, but that's just. It's just a weird point because everyone is chasing successful.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Like, it's a very.

[Matt]

I just don't get it.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

It's a bad question. The way he asked the question doesn't even make sense. Like, it's a bad question.

[Leah]

Well, he did start it with I'm a little lost. So let's. Let's start there. He did start with I'm a little lost. And then he said, can somebody tell me what the goal of being an independent artist is today? Because all of the things that people are chasing is the shit that major artists have. So what is the thing that independent artists do that make it special?

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Well, somebody.

[Leah]

I understand the question.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Crooked Eye responded and said, freedom. And I'm not against majors as long as the deal is beneficial for everyone. But being indie is the freedom to choose the what, when, where, and how. And Jermaine Dupri responded to Crooked Eye and said, so you're saying freedom is the perk. So I think JD Is wondering what's the perk of being independent? But I feel like that's such a easy question to answer, even if that.

[Matt]

Is what he's asking. It's like, I mean, the answer's pretty obvious, even, like, Ransom reply to own their masters, own their name and likeness, own their creative direction, own their freedom. We don't have to wait for someone to tell us when we can release a song, album, mixtape, tour, interview. We do what we want, when we want yeah. And to me, I mean, yeah, yeah, that's pretty obvious.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yeah. I think J.D. is probably saying, like, it's like you're chasing. When he says they're chasing the things that major artists have or get, I'm assuming they mean like Grammys or things like that, but it's like, yeah, it's gonna be harder for me to get these things, but I'll keep more of my money in the long run.

[Matt]

Yeah. And I mean, Obviously we know JD, still hip hop legend, but a lot of of JD's biggest stuff is Ben popping R B, which is not typically, ever an independent world at all. Yeah, Like, JD is very much used to that system because to create superstars, you do need a major label to some degree. So that's prob. I'm just sure JD has seen the benefits of what a major can actually do and provide for you, because he's so, so deaf with. With Universal and I'm Sony. Rather has helped a lot of his artists to become superstars. So maybe he just doesn't see the value in the indie thing because his goals are more on the super side, superstar side. I. I guess.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yeah.

[Matt]

I don't know.

[Leah]

See, I know what happened. They was in the studio. One of them conversations came about.

[Matt]

JD's good, good for this. At least once a month, he does stir up the timeline.

[Leah]

No, but I like it, though, because obviously we talking about, you know, one of the most legendary producers that we have in our culture. So I like the fact that, you know, this is, to me, this is what social media is about. Like, you know, somebody like Jermaine Dupri, who has accomplished all that he has in the music industry and entertainment industry, you know, just having, you know, those conversations in the studio that I've been, or that we've been privy enough to be around in real time and just go to social media with it and just pose the question where it reaches a bunch of different people. Because it's like, okay, if it's five of us in here having this conversation and we're all arguing and yelling, it's like, you know what? Let me tweet this. Other artists that, you know, someone who are independent will see this, they'll chime in and they'll, you know, respond to it, which is what Ransom and Crook and obviously La Russell and others have done. So I like this. I like this type of question posing from an artist or, you know, a producer such as Jermaine Dupree.

[Matt]

I can't think of an example right off the top of my head right now. But have you ever had, like, a convo with your friends or even, like, when we're off mic in the studio having a great debate or make a great point? Like, I should tweet this thinking, like, you really smoke something because in the room at that time, it felt like you were winning. And then timeline seems to think otherwise.

[Leah]

You don't know how many times I've had that situation. And somebody said, yo, Ma, you got the most tweeted right now. And ask. And I'm like, hell, no. Because I know. I know. What, reading it versus having somebody ask you.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Leah]

Like this question that Jermaine tweeted. I know if he actually. You actually could hear him asking the question. The context is totally different.

[Matt]

Yeah. And give more points and more context to what you.

[Leah]

Because you only have so many. Well, now you can tweet as much as you want. Right. There's not a character limit on tweets anymore. No, I just see porn, so I'm guessing there's no limit.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

No, there's character limits if you don't pay for Twitter.

[Leah]

Oh, okay, okay, okay.

[Matt]

I deliver right to Elon's pockets.

[Leah]

Yeah, you put it right in there. You hand it to him.

[Matt]

When I saw they, like, changed it to 280 and then to unlimited, I thought I was gonna, like, be happy about that. I don't really go above 140 anyway. No, that was a good number.

[Leah]

That's why I just never paid for it, because I'm like, I don't tweet that much.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Rory, do you ever regret not being, like. Regret being independent?

[Matt]

No, not at all.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Because you are fully independent, right?

[Matt]

Completely. It's okay. I will say, because compilation albums are very tough because everything is feature based and getting features is tough, and you're waiting on other people's time. It would be way easier if I was on a major. The resources of one money. Because, you know, a lot of what I do in my project is based off personal relationships of people that are doing it to make the song. They're not looking for, like, a verse fee or anything like that. I could probably get some. Some bigger features if I was like, yo, I have. I have a butt. Do you need 50k?

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And not. You know, I don't believe the rumor that major labels can just hit a button and make your song go crazy, but they definitely.

[Leah]

You don't believe that.

[Matt]

I think it's way more complicated and way more factors than just going, this is a hit and you're a superstar. Because I'm universal. I think they have.

[Leah]

I think that's exactly how easy it is.

[Matt]

Then why wouldn't they do it all the time?

[Leah]

Because it would be.

[Matt]

Why is a superstar rare?

[Leah]

Then it would be way too. Is a superstar rare?

[Matt]

Yes.

[Leah]

I don't know.

[Matt]

Why. Why can't they still. Why can't they.

[Leah]

Because I still don't understand the Playboy Carti thing. Still that.

[Matt]

But to me, that's not major label. That's him building a cult and core fan base that like that type of.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Playboy Cardi show them is mobbing and screaming and.

[Matt]

Yeah, but he built a crazy community. And I don't think think it was a major going.

[Leah]

What was the song?

[Matt]

You're asking the wrong person.

[Leah]

But that's what I'm saying. I don't even know what the song like. And I.

[Matt]

But that's the point to me, this is no knock.

[Leah]

This is no. No knock to Carti. But I'm just saying when you have. Because he's a superstar, as far as I'm concerned, I can't attach it to a. Like, what was the record? What was the moment? What was the. I just can't see it.

[Matt]

And I mean, I think that kind of proves the point then because we don't know what that. That major label button moment was. It was over time. He built that community. And if major labels could do that, why when Rihanna has clearly retired, they didn't go new Rihanna because Rihanna doesn't.

[Leah]

Want to put out music.

[Matt]

She can. Why can't they just create a new Rihanna then if they can just hit a button?

[Leah]

I mean, I feel like Tyler's on the way.

[Matt]

I like. All right, now you disrespect everybody. Rihanna. I like Tyler too, but let's not even put certain people in a sentence.

[Leah]

You know, you miss. You miss what I'm saying. I'm not saying. I'm just saying that I could the same package, the same way Rihanna came out. And people kind of were like a little hesitant on deciding, you know, if they liked her or not. Because I remember that. I remember Ponder. Pondery play and all that. I was there for that. I remember those moments. I'm just saying it got to a point now with Tyler Smash with her water record. Smash. Right. But I could see them kind of putting her through the same type of, you know, that's kind of like, she's obviously a beautiful woman. I could see her at some point in time getting into the beauty space.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Leah]

The music, the same type of, you know, Caribbean, Afrocentric. That Type of vibe. I could see her then now them pushing her more into, like, real R and B lane at some point.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Leah]

I could see them sitting at her with certain writers. R and B writers. Producers. Getting her real R and B sound, getting her away from the African, just afrobeats type of vibe. And I could see that for Tyler. I could see the music industry absolutely pushing her through the same type of gauntlet that they did Rihanna at one point and shout out to Tyler because she's obviously talented and she's dope. But you can see it like, okay, I've seen this. Seen this play before.

[Matt]

I mean, holla at me when she makes anti or rated.

[Leah]

Yeah, but you talk about. But how long. How long until Rihanna's career did that happen?

[Matt]

Oh, later on, but exactly.

[Leah]

So it's the same thing. Point I'm making to you. Give it time. Let's watch a rollout. But I can see it early. Like, okay, they're gonna sit Tyler with a real R and B producer, get her a real R and B album project, and it's gonna. Now she's into the R and B lane dominate.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

I wouldn't say R B. Cause R and B singers are not really successful these days. Like, R B is not the successful genre. Rihanna wasn't even R B. Rihanna is a pop artist.

[Leah]

Yeah, but I mean. Yeah, but R B pop. Pop is just popular. Like, we know R B is pop music.

[Matt]

I'm actually shocked this take is coming from you because you are typically the person that has so much respect for actual, like, legends that you hate. When we even compare, like, the person that hates jello, when we say it's a good record to even compare to other legitimate artists, you rightfully so get upset. So that's why I think it's kind of nuts that you would put Tyler even in a sentence off a hypothetical.

[Leah]

No, but I'm. You. You're. You're making it too much of a comparison.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

I feel like you're dragging it a little bit.

[Leah]

Rory, you're making it too much of a comparison thing. I'm not saying Tyler. I'm saying the same thing that they did for Rihanna. They started out with her roots, her sound, her culture. It was that heavy. It was Caribbean heavy with Rihanna at first. It then transitions into sit her with Neo. Let's get these records. Get her with the dream, get the umbrella and all of that. Let Jay put a verse on that. You know what I'm saying? Like, I could see them doing the same thing with Tyler.

[Matt]

No. 1 million definitely invested in going to make sure she continues to be a very popular artist. But I just don't think it's just a label thing at that point. Like, Water was successful. Yes, because the majors did get behind it and you could not fucking escape that song. But Water's also an incredible fucking song.

[Leah]

Absolutely. I'm. And I'm not saying it's not.

[Matt]

Yes, major labels know how to push the button on incredible records to get them in front of more eyes and ears. Like, let's not just say they hit a button on. On anything. It. It takes two to get to that superstar level. They'll put some bullshit out that'll just play on radio.

[Leah]

You worked in the industry. You. You mean to tell me you don't think that it's just a simple phone call for them to say, you know what, we're going to get her on the View with Whoopi. We're going to get her on this with her. We're going to put this artist on this show with that day. It's literally just phone calls.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

But that doesn't make you a superstar.

[Matt]

I agree that the major system, back to the superstar shit, you need a major to have those connections. Yes, with a major, you'll probably get on Fallon easier, but that doesn't mean you're going to stay on if the music sucks. That's what makes superstars. Yes, they get buttons pushed again, but they deliver.

[Leah]

But the button pushing is literally, yo, get her in the studio with Mike Dean. Get her in the studio with this person. It's literally just the label making calls that they already have with people they already have relationships with. Like, this is the next superstar. Labels, you can create the next superstar. You can absolutely push a button and say, this is the next superstar.

[Matt]

I agree. But what is the deciding factor that makes them a superstar and keeps them in the game for 15, 20 years? It's their talent level as well. They have given plenty of artists an opportunity to be on Fallon and do a live performance on late night tv. Doesn't mean they become superstars. Yes, the majors give you an opportunity.

[Leah]

Yeah, but how a lot of people.

[Matt]

Don'T deliver on this.

[Leah]

How much talent do you need today to be a superstar?

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Well, who are the superstars? I was about to say, and we have a lot.

[Matt]

Because there isn't. There isn't.

[Leah]

No, you don't need a lot of tall. You don't need a lot of talent.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

The superstar title, you do not need.

[Matt]

A lot of superstar right now.

[Leah]

Whoever you want to name is a superstar. I'm saying you today, in 2025, to be a superstar in the music business, you do not need a lot of talent. Talent. Because a lot of superstars that we can name are not great vocalists. I'm not gonna put no names on it. They're not great vocalists without all the bells and whistles and tricks and shit on. On the mixing board. They do not sound that good. They cannot dance that good. So what are we talking about? Why are you acting like it's so hard to make it? If a label decides this is the person we're investing in and we're putting the house behind, that person is going to be successful. We've seen it time and time again, and then we see people that are like, damn, she sings better than her or he sings better. How is that a super? He dances better than him. She dances better than her. How is she not a superstar?

[Lisa Green Lewis]

There's things that go into being. So first of all, that's why I said, what's a superstar?

[Leah]

A superstar is somebody that just has that. It's a confidence thing. You elude this type of energy. Like, you know what I'm saying? While you may not be the greatest singer or greatest dancer when you walk in the room, it's something about you that people say, I like this.

[Matt]

That's definitely a factor, for sure.

[Leah]

That's a talent being likable.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

But that's a lot of these artists.

[Matt]

A movie star, it's not the acting. I agree with you. That is definitely up.

[Leah]

So it's the same thing in movies. It's the same thing.

[Matt]

You can't name.

[Leah]

I don't need to be able to hit that note. If I sing it to this mic and you do what you got to do behind that board, I hit that note by the time you hear it.

[Matt]

I'm not saying every superstar is Christina Aguilera when it comes to singing, but you cannot name me one superstar that is not extremely, extremely, extremely talented. Not one.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

I think the only one that people will argue would be Rihanna. And that's not shade to Rihanna because I absolutely love Rihanna. But it's been well known that people have doubted her vocals over the year. Said that she wasn't a strong vocalist. Said that she's not a strong dancer. Rihanna is just going aura for aura. You can't out. She was born to be a star. She was born to be a star. Going to be a star.

[Matt]

And what did Rihanna do her entire career? Deliver incredible classic music. Despite agree not being the best vocalist spirit, Jennifer Lopez is not A good vocalist.

[Leah]

What's a part of.

[Matt]

She's a superstar.

[Leah]

What's a part of delivering those. Those records? What's a major part of delivering those.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Records is the people writing and producing them. I mean, he's not lying about that.

[Leah]

Why are you acting like this right now? You make music, bro.

[Matt]

The amount. The amount of references of. With Rihanna records I've heard and we not.

[Leah]

I don't want people that are saying.

[Matt]

Better delivered the song. I don't want it more of a case.

[Leah]

Wait, wait, wait. I do not want to make this a Rihanna thing. I'm not trying to make this a Rihanna thing. I'm talking in general. Why are you acting like you can't just take this person, this artist, and once you put them in a room. Rory, right now, if you put me in the room with Dream and whatever fucking other producer you want to put me in a room with it, I could make a hit record.

[Matt]

Mo, I guarantee you there are thousands and thousands and thousands of songs that labels sent to the Dream that did not work out.

[Leah]

Of course. I'm not saying it's not. I'm just saying when the label decides that they. They have this person, like, damn, this person right here, this is the next.

[Matt]

So why don't they do that? Why. Why is Tinashe not a star? Why is she not a superstar?

[Lisa Green Lewis]

They try very hard. And Tinashe, every button in the world.

[Matt]

For her, every opportunity, every. And I do think she's talented. Not the best vocalist all the time either. Does kind of have an it factor. Why. Why didn't that work out? Why didn't Rita Ora work out?

[Lisa Green Lewis]

They've. Yeah, it's not foolproof. Like, I get what Mall is saying. Like, it does help. But you have to be that girl if you not, or that boy if you not that, then there's no button in the world they can press that will give you. You might have one hit, but it's not going to give you longevity. Like, it's just not going to happen. You can't fake that. That, especially for too long. You can't fake it for too long is a perfect example because they put.

[Matt]

The house behind her, and that is what separates it. Anyone can get the opportunities from the majors. They themselves are what keeps them on. Yes, of course there's help. There's writers, there's producers. But so there's plenty of people that get those shots and put out bullshit. Plenty of people have worked with Dream, have had Timberland, Beats, had every publication look that you could get and did not make it because they weren't a superstar. Like, I won't say Doge Cat superstar, but she's a star.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Y'all just. Hold on, wait. Y'all just called Playboi Cardi a superstar. If you can call Playboy Cardi a superstar.

[Matt]

Called Playboy Cardi, y'all did.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

That was how this whole entire conversation came about.

[Matt]

I do not think Playboy Card is a superstar.

[Leah]

I do.

[Matt]

I think that, that, that he's the one that said different.

[Leah]

He has a cult. He has a literal culture, but that's not one.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

When I think superstar, you can't have.

[Leah]

A cult following and not be a superstar.

[Matt]

Taylor Swift is a superstar. Beyonce's a superstar. Justin Bieber is a superstar. The Gaga is a superstar.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Beyonce's a mega star. It's a little bit different. Beyonce, Michael Jackson, you entering into mega. Usher's a superstar.

[Leah]

Y'all don't think Playboi Carti is a superstar.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

No, Usher's a superstar. Rihanna's a superstar. Bruno Mars, superstar. Playboi Carti is not a superstar. No, he's a star, but he's not a superstar. I think there's a little bit of a difference.

[Matt]

And so back to the doja cat thing.

[Leah]

If Playboi Carti tweet right now that he's in Union Square park, it's gonna be pandemonium on 14th Street.

[Matt]

What? All right, what if Ariana Grande tweeted that they shut the city down superstar?

[Leah]

Yeah, I think the same shit would happen with Playboy Superstar. If Playboi Carti tweets, I'm in Union Square park right now playing my album, it's gonna be pandemonium of 10.

[Matt]

I agree. He's a very popular.

[Leah]

Nah, don't say popular. He's a superstar. Bro, we not doing that.

[Matt]

He's an.

[Leah]

I don't understand it. I'm gonna be the first to tell you. Maybe it's outside of what I'm. My algorithm, I don't understand it, but I recognize a superstar when I see one. Playboi Carti's a superstar.

[Matt]

He's a list in hip hop. That's not a superstar.

[Leah]

However you want to listen, it's Playboy Cardi. How much cut you want to put on that dope? Rory, do what you got to do.

[Matt]

What is your biggest venue?

[Leah]

Playboy Carti's a superstar.

[Matt]

What's the biggest venue that. That he's going to sell out?

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Oh, don't do that, cuz. Playboy Cardi c venues.

[Matt]

I'm. I'm not taking anything away. Away From Playboy Cardi. I'm aware of how popular.

[Leah]

I believe he could sell out the Garden.

[Matt]

I wouldn't be shocked if he sold out the Garden.

[Leah]

But that's a superstar.

[Matt]

No, that's a star, bro.

[Leah]

You.

[Matt]

When he sells out MetLife, then talk to me.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Well, he has two shows.

[Leah]

I think he can sell out MetLife.

[Matt]

N. That's. Come on. Do you have MetLife? Like, that's insane. There's a handful of people that could do.

[Leah]

Travis Scott is a superstar.

[Matt]

Yes, star.

[Leah]

He sold out MetLife.

[Matt]

He's a star.

[Leah]

Yo, you tripping. What are you talking about? Nobody gonna squabble up that Playboy Cardi is a superstar. Bro, I'll fight you one on one. I don't give a. I don't need no help. Playboy Cardi's a superstar.

[Matt]

Why you take that far? Why do you need help?

[Leah]

I don't.

[Matt]

I'm just like that.

[Leah]

I'll take the. I'll take the one on one. One. Playboy Card is a superstar.

[Matt]

If this podcast breaks up because of Playboy Cardi.

[Leah]

No, I'm just saying Playboy Cardi to me is a superstar. I think if you have a cult following the size that he has, bro, that's superstar, bro. That's not easy.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

When I think about Superstar, I think a talent. So I won't agree with you on that. Cuz I think that talent is a factor no matter how popular you are. I think in order to be a superstar, you have to have the accompany and talent to back it up.

[Matt]

Which. Which one of these does not belong? Taylor Swift. Beyonce. Justin.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Taylor Swift is a mega star.

[Matt]

Lady Gaga. Madonna, Rihanna, Ariana Grande, Day, Playboi. Carti. Which one. Which one does not belong?

[Leah]

I don't even like your tone. The way you dropped your tone when you said his name and all of that. Don't do that. Because I think that all of those artists that you just named, I think they'll do. They'll do a song with Playboi. Carti. I think he can get a feature with all of them. Ice Spice got a record with Taylor Swift. We not doing that. Playboy Carti could get a record with Taylor Swift. We not doing that.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Well, his.

[Matt]

He just got a. He just got a song with a superstar. The Weeknd.

[Leah]

Exactly.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

He's on tour with the Weeknd.

[Matt]

Actually, the Weeknd Superstar is a super, super.

[Leah]

Yeah, Playboy Cardi's right there.

[Matt]

You've never seen a tour with two superstars except for Jay Z and Beyonce. And I don't even know if Jay Z would be considered A superstar.

[Leah]

We're not doing that.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

That was a superstar tour.

[Leah]

Jay Z is a superstar. We're not doing that. We're not doing that. Jay Z is a superstar.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Rory, Rory, you potting?

[Leah]

Like.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

I mean, we don't need topics.

[Leah]

He ain't potting.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

We don't need topics that bad.

[Leah]

Tripping. Say he tripping. He ain't potting. He tripping with no luggage.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Stop, Rory, just stop.

[Leah]

Super.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Just.

[Leah]

Jay Z's not a superstar.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Just stop.

[Matt]

Yo, what's up with you, Star?

[Leah]

No, Jalen Brunson is a star. Jay Z is a.

[Matt]

He's a megastar. In my world, JC Is a superstar.

[Leah]

What are you talking about, star? Are you crazy?

[Matt]

I just reserved that for people that I named.

[Leah]

He started a billionaire walk club. He walks with billionaires in the morning just to get his steps in. That's superstar. What are you talking about?

[Matt]

No, that's a. That's a superstar businessman, man.

[Leah]

What? However you want to. Again, put as much cut on the dope as you want. Jay Z is.

[Matt]

You know, I'm a hovinger that I would say that Michael Jackson and Jay Z should be in the same sentence. But if somebody was being objective and put up the stats of both of those people, they do not belong in the same sentence.

[Leah]

But you keep saying, Michael Jackson ain't no superstar. He's a God.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Like, that's what I'm saying. Like talking about Michael Jackson, Taylor Swift, Beyonce are not superstars. They're. They are surpassing that. That's what they. That's why they bring a mega star.

[Matt]

That's where our disconnect in this conversation is. Then, if. If going off the definitions you guys are saying, then, yes, Jay Z is a superstar. If we're having the level of megastar in this mix, Jay Z is a superstar. Cardi is still just a star. Even if we're adding megastar into this mix.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I'm not really going with that, but again, I'm using an old school definition, so. But I think this is our A list conversation all over again. And I think that we just all.

[Matt]

Well, I did want to get back. Back to the point of, of if labels can just do that, why don't they do it more? That was my original point, too.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yes.

[Leah]

Well, again, because everybody doesn't have that thing about them. They don't have that air about them. They don't have that presence. They don't have that, you know, that thing. Sometimes they try it with certain people and it just doesn't work. But again, when you have certain people, sometimes they get it right. And I just think that, you know, we gotta start just acknowledging like, yeah, nah, definitely. They push the buttons on that artist to make it a little easier. Artist is talented artist, you know, has that thing. But the labels definitely do a thing where they're like, yo, listen, we're gonna pull out all the stops for this person.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

But it's usually because that person.

[Leah]

They absolutely do that. But it's because that person, again, they have that thing, though.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

So then the. So then the deciding factor is not the labels. Cause again, the labels try it with some people and it doesn't work. Then this deciding factor is that artist, which goes back to the labels, cannot just push a button and make an artist a star. This artist has to have star quality already.

[Matt]

Yeah, I think we are actually kind of all agreeing with each other in a weird, argumentative way now.

[Leah]

That squabble.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

No, I don't.

[Leah]

I don't think.

[Matt]

But even, like, I will say, Eminem would probably not be a superstar if he did not have Jimmy Iovine, Interscope, Dr. Dre. He would still be an extremely talented, talented rapper. One of the greatest people to pick up a pen. But, yes, the majors made him a superstar, but that came with his talent as well. I think there is deciding factors where people wouldn't have been superstars if they didn't have a major, but they still would be talented.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

No.

[Leah]

Yeah, there's a lot of people that are talented. Talent is something that a lot of people, you know, in music or film and things like that that they have. But again, sometimes talent is just not enough. Yeah, I know a lot of talented people, and I'm like, damn, why? Why are you not. You way more talented than this person? Why your ain' and there's other things, work ethic, you know, things like that, that factor in, you know, little attributes that you need as well. When you talking about superstar shit. You have to be, you know, you have to go literally, you know, black out into your art, your craft, lose friendships, not speak to your family. You gotta be willing to go down those type of holes to just become who you wanna become. And some people are not willing to do that. But more times than none, if a person has that air, that quality about them and they have just a little talent, labels will push a button to magnify that little talent that that person has because they believe this person is a star. While they might not be as talented as they may not be able to sing like Whitney, but.

[Mo]

And.

[Matt]

And to me, outside of Rihanna's taste level, her quality to, to me, her real, real raw talent is hard work. Because like you guys were saying when she first came out, it wasn't like, like obvious that she was going to be the next one. She worked her ass off to even get to that point where her vocals weren't the best but could make number one records. Like I went to a early Rihanna show and then I went to the Was it Unapologetic tour. The difference in her performances was insane. There's no way you, you do that and improve like that if you're not one of the hardest working people.

[Leah]

I mean we, yeah, that, that's part of it. But again, you know, know we've seen what Cassie looked like early and we thought was going to be something we thought, I mean we thought she was on her way. What Ryan Leslie was doing with her, the music that they were creating undeniable records.

[Matt]

Yeah. I, me and you was there another undeniable Cassie record? Me, Me and you was the classic.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

I miss you girl. I miss you girl. I'mma make you my official girl.

[Leah]

Long way to go and long way to go though.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

But official girl with Lil Wayne, she.

[Leah]

Has some joint joints.

[Matt]

Oh, for sure. I, I think outside at one point.

[Leah]

Tiara Marie might have had a bigger record than Rihanna.

[Matt]

Absolutely.

[Leah]

So this is what I'm saying.

[Matt]

So you know she was a priority at D before.

[Leah]

This is what I'm saying.

[Matt]

When they were there at the same time. Yeah, but Kareem, where I stopped. Look at the difference in that. You can't. Rihanna's undeniable with her hard work and even if she wasn't a partner, you.

[Leah]

Have to be able to sustain it for sure. Without a doubt.

[Matt]

She did, did that.

[Leah]

I ain't mean to scream at you. I don't know if I scream. I ain't mean to do that to you.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

I mean but tomorrow's point, Sierra Marie might, Tierra Marie might be on that side of. It's not about hard work. They came and saw this, this light skinned girl and they pushed the button on her and I was left in the dust even though I had the talent.

[Matt]

Listen, so I'm not saying that you can't push the button and have your moment. A label can create a moment. An artist does not deserve it all. I'm not saying that. But you see, when they're not talented or have that it factor, it was just a moment.

[Leah]

Absolutely.

[Matt]

Because they pushed that button. Of course. Tamari, she was like what, 17, 18. Like I don't want to like say this if she did write the record, but I'm assuming, like she was given that record. They put a crazy budget behind the video. Of course. Service did 106 apart. TRL put Jay Z in the fucking video. Like, yeah, those were button pushing shit.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Matt]

But you see that, that's not the only thing that can keep someone around. But also to her credit credit, label politics her up as well. It wasn't, I don't want to say, like, yo, she didn't work hard and that's why she didn't make it. A lot of was happening. Timing is a huge thing too. Timing, luck and politics also are factors in all this.

[Leah]

Yeah, no, it's other, it's other things that play into being, you know, getting to that superstar level. But you know, the label recognizing that, yo, we, we have something here. Let's kind of like amplify this. Let's kind of like, like put the nitrous oxide in the trunk.

[Matt]

Like, like, I think it works. I think ail had some of the worst timing ever. Like, I feel for her. I think she was on her way. But what was going on at Rockefeller around the time she was starting to have her moment? Moment was up.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Matt]

So even though she was super talented, no buttons could be pushed at that time and everything broke off and she was, you know, only relying on them to put the music out. So timing is a huge thing as well.

[Leah]

Absolutely. Timing is everything.

[Matt]

But with that said, Playboy, Cardi is not a special.

[Leah]

He tripping each. I can't wait. I can't wait for play with Cardi to announce a surprise show. And then you just see exactly how close.

[Matt]

Yeah, it'll be nuts. And then he won't show up.

[Leah]

That's Superstar. Only the superstars could do that. That's reserved for the superstars. I got a show and I won't be there. And it's still so sold out. Yeah, Superstar.

[Matt]

Outside of like money, legacy and all that, I do envy that. I can't do Superstar. Like when Mariah Carey, the rumors would be like, she needs like a hundred puppies on her rider in the green room. Like only yellow M&M's and shit.

[Leah]

Yeah, Superstar shit.

[Matt]

Like, I kind of wish I could get some of that shit. I feel like I'd get really, really creative if I had the juice where somebody like, well, we have to get your 100 puppies.

[Leah]

Exactly. Superstars.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

That's what we have to get her. 100 puppies.

[Leah]

Yeah. Reserved for a select few. Few.

[Matt]

I, I Forgot what artist it was that kind of explained insane writers. That did make sense because there was always articles about, like, artists just being super divas and, like, look how weird these people are, what they make venues go through. He said, yeah, I only put yellow M&M's on my rider because when I walk in the green room, if they did that, I know everything else is covered.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Yeah, okay.

[Matt]

Like, they put little weird detail, and that would be the side effect. If they did that, then the. I really need. Need, like, the right water where, like, they did it, then it's just to force people to pay attention to details, which makes sense.

[Leah]

I understand that. I could definitely understand that.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Leah]

Yeah. But my bad, Rory. I mean, you know, I get a little animated, get a little excited, and, you know, you're my guy, you're my friend. I don't want to yell.

[Matt]

Listen, I'm gonna say I forgive you on Mike and then hold in my actual resentments and just be passive aggressive. But do you talk to my therapist about it? And not ever to you?

[Leah]

No. But do you think that. Because it is. It is healthy for, I think, friends to debate and arguing?

[Matt]

Of course. You know, I never take that.

[Leah]

No, no, no, I know that, but have you ever, like, physically fought one of your friends?

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Leah]

And are y'all still friends?

[Matt]

Yeah, we were friends since, like, real friends.

[Leah]

Well, when did y'all fight?

[Matt]

I was busy. It was in high school, like, when I was.

[Leah]

Oh, okay. Yeah. I'm talking about.

[Matt]

It was over a bed at a sleepover. Yeah, we scratched, like, we. That was, like, the first time I really felt like. Like sore as. After a fight. The next day was a lot.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Cause y'all was probably fighting for mad long, too. Just dumb.

[Leah]

I don't think you could ever really. Well, as teenagers, yes, I can understand. But as an adult, do you think that you could fight, like, physically fight a friend and go back to being friends?

[Matt]

Not. Not as an adult, I don't think.

[Leah]

I don't. As an adult, I don't think so.

[Matt]

I think. Think high school, younger, like, that is kind of part of. Of growing up. Like, you definitely fight with the people in your neighborhood that are your friends. Like, I don't know. Just growing up with kid emotions that. That can happen. And as long as, you know, there's no grimy, you can move on and just be friends. As an adult, though, I. I think that's kind of weird. Yeah. Because I feel like I don't even, like, think adults should really fight like that. If it's not A legitimate reason.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Matt]

So let alone with a friend. Like, I'm not fighting my. Now, you know, 34 years old, I'm not gonna do that.

[Leah]

No, I just think that, you know, younger, you don't understand. We don't. Well, we didn't understand how to express certain emotions and certain things we was feeling, you know, as. As young males. But as a grown man, I think if you get into, like, you go to blows with, like, one of your friends, I don't think that y'all are real friends. I think that there's something that one of y'all were kind of, like, harboring, and it just came to a head and.

[Matt]

Sure.

[Leah]

Cause I've been down that road. Like, you. You'll have, like, little debates with a friend, and they'll say something, and you'd.

[Matt]

Be like, I just need a reason.

[Leah]

Like, you was holding. Like, you could tell when they was holding that. Like, yo, you've been waiting to get that off. Cause what we talking about, you wrote.

[Matt]

Like, Playboi Carti Dallas.

[Leah]

Yeah, yeah. Like. Cause what we are. Playboi Carti ain't gonna bring that emotion out of you. Like, you ain't gonna tell me, like, yeah, and I ain't like, what you was like.

[Matt]

Wait, what you was talking about.

[Leah]

Yeah. But like, nah. As grown men, I don't think that you could come into, like, a physical blows with your friend, and it'd be like, nah, we back, homes. I just don't like When I see.

[Matt]

That's a new feeling for me, though. I will say I never fought any of my friends in my 20s or early 30s or anything. But I would probably. If you asked me that question a couple years ago, I would say yes, it would have to be a legitimate, real reason to fight. And I think you guys can go back to being friends at 34, going on 35. No, I'm not going.

[Leah]

A friend of mine.

[Matt]

I'm not gonna have an altercation physically with my friend.

[Leah]

A friend of mine called me out for a fight one time. Well, he didn't call me out, but it almost came to, like. We almost came to blows. But I knew what it was because we had had conversations, like, a couple weeks before, and I knew what he was dealing with and going through. So in that moment where he was like. It seemed like he wanted to fight. If you were there. I look like I got punked. Cause I was like, yo, you know what? You got it. But I knew why he was. You know, those emotions was there because we had had, like, a real talk. He was going through some things, you know, financially, he wasn't in the greatest space. So it got a little. But I recognized it and I was like, you got it, bro. You know what I'm saying? And that's my, you know, that's like a friend. But I knew in that moment, if I responded with aggression, we would have came to blows and it would have been whack. Because I know what he was really going through at the time. And that energy wasn't for me. Me.

[Matt]

No, of course. Of course it wouldn't be. In that regard, you just have to learn how to carry your emotions. Because fighting you wouldn't get him out of that financial disaster. There was no grand prize at the end of the fight.

[Leah]

Absolutely not.

[Matt]

I mean, unless he like robbed you for your debit card and ran right to the ATM before you could cancel it. That's after. After he beat you up, maybe.

[Leah]

That's different. Yo, J.D. is calling me.

[T-Mobile Representative]

You can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com heap and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Matt]

Hi, I'm Matt.

[Leah]

And I'm Leah and we're from the.

[Lenovo Representative]

Grown Up Stuff podcast.

[Matt]

And just in time for tax season, on this week's episode, we're chatting with CPA Lisa Green Lewis about how small businesses can tackle their taxes using TurboTax Business.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

A Forbes study mentioned that a whopping 93% of small businesses overpay their taxes and 17% of Gen Zers believed that you could write off any any expense as a business expense. So can't blame them. It's really important to do your taxes right.

[Matt]

Listen to grown up stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

[JD]

The battlefield is set. The stakes are high. The only thing standing between you and victory. Nothing. Ascend to the pinnacle of gaming greatness with Lenovo Legion Lap laptops, towers and the new award winning Legion Go, the world's first officially licensed handheld powered by SteamOS. Legion relentlessly pushes gaming technology forward with towers built for raw, untamed power. Laptops with best in class AI tuning that sharpen your Reflexes and the Legion Go, a handheld for serious gaming on the go. Stay ahead with lightning fast responsiveness on a stunning 16 inch PureSight display. Keep your cool with cold front thermal technology engineered for marathon sessions and with all day battery life. The game never stops until you say so. So check out lenovo.com legion empowering creators everywhere.

[Lenovo Representative]

This message comes from Greenlight. Ready to start talking to your kids about financial literacy? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app that teaches kids and teens how to earn, save, spend wisely and invest. With your guardrails in place with Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores automate allowance and keep.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

An eye on what your kids are.

[Lenovo Representative]

Spending with real time notifications. Join millions of parents and kids building healthy financial habits together on Greenlight. Get started risk [e-mail] iheartra.

[Leah]

Yo, my brother JD how you feeling?

[Mo]

What's happening? How you.

[Leah]

I'm good, bro. So we was just in here talking and your tweet, you know, came up that you tweeted out last night and me and Rory were talking. I said, I know JD was probably in the studio having one of them conversations and just wanted to get the, the feel and the vibe of the outside world and see what they would. They were feeling. But so about the tweet, how did that, how did that come about? What was you in the studio talking about? Because I know that's where you was at.

[Mo]

Yeah, I was on the studio. I was actually by myself though. I was actually. I saw something that said Instagram had they made a new function where that is the guy, the commercial said it could be the greatest thing for independent artists. And at that, at that second I'm like, okay, okay. So he left out major artists. He said independent artists only. So then I'm like, okay, so let me. So I'm checking it out, I'm looking to see what it is. And it says that, you know, you could play independent artists could play their new music for their fans for 30 seconds in the DM and it helps their algorithm at Spotify. Right? So, so I mean, at that point I'm just like, okay, cool. So then I just want, I like, I said, I just, just made me ask, like, what is the special thing about being independent? Like the special thing, right? And I was just reading right now waiting on you to call me that you can go this way. That, that Steve Scott wrote Ownership control, freedom of all, all the things that have been taken from artists since the beginning of time.

[Leah]

I mean, that was his Response. That was his response to you?

[Mo]

Yeah, that's his response.

[Matt]

Taking that from artists.

[Mo]

That's the answer. That's the answer. I just was saying, like, you know, in, in anything that we do, it's a special, it's a special thing or reason why you want to go to the NBA if you in college, it's a special reason that you want to go to the NFL if you play Pop Warner. It's a special reason that you go to Paris for Fashion Week. It's a special reason.

[Matt]

Right.

[Mo]

I just wanted to, I was asking, what is the special reason? I don't know. And it's crazy that people got so.

[Leah]

Mad about the question because they get mad about everything.

[Mo]

Yeah, but I'm saying when people get mad, it start. It's, it lets me know that it's something else going on. Because you can't, you can't. You can ask me a question. I'm not gonna get mad. Like, you ask me any question you want to ask me. I'm not gonna get mad and start saying crazy to you like, well, well, you know, I mean, I'm not gonna do that. I don't have a reason to do that. And it's, it's like, and ultimately, like I said, I wasn't picking at nobody that's independent. If that's what you do, that's cool. But I'm also saying, if I was a person that just was coming upon, coming into the world and I was like, I wanna, I wanna go independent and I ask somebody, what's the special. What's, what's special about me being. If I go independent and you told me ownership, control and freedom, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna be left with, looking for something. I, maybe I'm, maybe I'm, maybe my goals are too high, but that, that doesn't give me enough. Because I know people who've gone to Masters, they get their ownership myself, I know people who's going to the majors and they get control myself, I know people that's gone to majors and they get the freedom to put out whatever they want myself, right? And I, and I've seen other people do this, right? I have seen it where these labels hire people who get in the way, right? And they get in the way of people like myself, and then it's a problem them. But it's all business, right? It's all business. And it's all. That's the part that I'm trying to make sure people and the younger generation of People understand it's all business, right? And you say better contracts. I don't. That's not. That's not a specialty of going independent. Because better contracts is based on your. Your business mindset, right? The lawyer that you have and how you create a deal. It's all about out. You know what I mean? Like, Magic Johnson was offered stock into Nike, and he didn't take it. Michael Jordan did.

[Leah]

Deal.

[Mo]

Michael Jordan mother made the Nike deal, and Michael Jordan's a billionaire, right? It's all about business. And even in sports, right? When you look at sports and you look at fashion, right? I Looking at Pharrell, right? Pharrell became the creative director of Louis Vuitton. That's a company that he doesn't own. He works there now. He's a creative director. He has a deal with Mo Wet. He has a deal with Tiffany. Why? Ain't nobody saying why Pharrell creating his own clothing and doing. You know what I'm saying?

[Leah]

It's like, it's.

[Mo]

It's interesting to me that only in the music business, we have this mentality, and every other business in the world is the same. It's just business. So that's all I was asking. I would. I wasn't really trying to. What did y'all think when y'all ready?

[Leah]

Well, I said. I started with. Well, JD did say. Say, I'm. I'm a little lost. So I started with that. I said, I think that people read the. The. You know, they read it out of context. I thought that if you. If they. If you posted a video asking it, I think people would have understood the context.

[Mo]

I went. I did. I went to. That's what I'm saying. That's where the Steve Scout comment is on my. On my Instagram page. So I posted. I went live because somebody on there said, JD you tripping. And I said, okay, I'm gonna go live. So you can tell me why I'm tripping, because all I did was ask a question, right? I didn't even say nothing, right? I'm trying to figure out how I'm tripping by ask question.

[Leah]

No, I totally. I totally understand that. And we was in here saying, like, you know, I think that it got. What you asked was out of context. People didn't understand the context of it because I did feel like you were just trying to figure out, like, well, what is it that y'all want? And, you know, if y'all just want to be independent, but y'all want the same thing that the Mages Want. So what is it that y'all want on the indie level? Like, what are y'all after? What are y'all chasing? And like you said, you know, you've got. Gotten control of your. Owned your masters and gotten all of this creative freedom and to do whatever you want on a major as well. So again, it's all up to how you structure your deal and. And go after what you want. But you can do that on a major level. You don't. You can't. Because you can have a terrible indie deal as well. You can have a terrible situation, independent as well.

[Mo]

Like, I look at, like. Like say, for instance, Kanye deal. That was at Def Cam, from my understanding. Kanye had one of the most glorified deals that Universal has ever given an artist, period. Right? It's just one of the biggest deals that favor any artist, period. Right. And. And as a, as a. As a person, if you're good and your music is great, like Kanye music, you can get whatever you want. I think that that's. I think that's another thing that people don't understand, you know? And I. Like I said, when I. When I first started making music, the goal was to make a demo, hit the streets, run around New York, go to la, have meetings and talk to people and see if you won't get signed. I get it now. It's just like, you just put the music out.

[Leah]

I get it.

[Mo]

So, I mean, but like I said, none of that was what my question was. I'm just asking, what is the perk of being independent?

[Leah]

Right?

[Mo]

And I guess, like I said, Steve Stout being mean, you know, United Masters, him saying that I'm. I just posted what he said because I guess that's the. That's it. You just get freedom and creative control and that's it. Right. So cool.

[Leah]

But you've had that. You've had that on the major yourself.

[Mo]

So, yeah, like I said, that's why I've seen, by the way, I've seen Rest in Peace, my brother, Irv Gotti. Irv Gotti own Murder Inc. That's why when he sold it, you know, I mean, he got Big Bad this and the third, he owned it. If you write your music, you own all your publishing anyway, right? Right. That don't even have nothing to do with a label or majors or not. Right. I'm a guy that's been writing songs since the beginning, 100 of. I don't know nothing about people taking my royalties.

[Leah]

Right?

[Mo]

Right. It ain't all the names to put on there. I'm just saying, you know what I'm saying? Ain't no other names for me to put on the records to, to, for. For it to go that direction. If you writing your own music and you sitting in the studio, everybody night, the credit automatic. I mean, you know, it don't automatically come to you. You gotta fight for what you got to do.

[Leah]

Right.

[Mo]

It's just part of business. And like I said, I wasn't trying to on nobody. I was really just asking a real question. I didn't know that was gonna get mad at me about asking. I'm like. Because I'm saying I still don't understand why the guy on Instagram said, this is be the thing for independent artists. Why can't this be the thing for everybody?

[Leah]

Right, right. Okay, I see what you're saying. Yeah.

[Mo]

Like, what is. What is, what is it? What is, what is? Like, that's. That's what. Okay, so wait, why is this special for independent artists? And he's not saying this could be crazy for musical artists, period.

[Leah]

Right. I get it.

[Mo]

And then somebody, then last night, somebody told me when they got on the phone, they was like, you know, jd, it's because an independent artist, we need everything that we can get. So any little thing that we can get is a special thing for us. And that's what I'm saying. Like, it's all worth conversation and talking, but people just get mad about you asking a question. It's crazy.

[Leah]

Yeah, yeah. They taking it, they taking it personal. Like you asking them directly, like, why you want to be independent. Like, that's how a lot of people took that.

[Mo]

I don't care.

[Matt]

I was offended.

[Leah]

Rory said, well, I was offended. He said he was offended.

[Matt]

No, no, he's just.

[Mo]

With you, I'm saying no, for real. I don't, I don't. That part I don't get. I don't understand that because I'm like, all I did was ask you, like, what is the special thing?

[Leah]

Right.

[Mo]

I'm saying, like, bought Louis Vuitton Timberlands special.

[Leah]

Right, right, right.

[Mo]

I remember a time in my life when I said I would never pay $2,000 for a pair of shoes.

[Leah]

Right.

[Mo]

It was a time in my life when I said this.

[Leah]

Right, Right.

[Mo]

But then I started chasing special.

[Leah]

Right, right.

[Mo]

You start chasing special. Want buy. Got sneaker collections, buying two thousand dollar Jordans. Why? Because they special. So that's all I'm asking. What's special, special about being independent?

[Leah]

Right. I totally understand that. Before we let you go, we had another conversation. Do you believe that Playboi Carti is a superstar? Yes, but without the music, I still don't understand it. Like, I believe he's a superstar, but I can't attach it to the. Like, I don't know the music.

[Mo]

Because superstardom. Superstardom is. Is not musically connected all. At all times. Right. Like, I thought Crisscross was superstars when I first saw them, and then we didn't have no music.

[Leah]

Right.

[Mo]

That's what made me.

[Leah]

That's what it was. Something about that.

[Mo]

Yeah. So I believe that people can be superstars without the music. You know, I mean, I think that. I think that we connect the two together. I don't. I don't. Because I. Like I said, I can see an artist walking down the street, or I could see a person moving around and just be like, okay. I see how people paying attention to this person. They. A star, they got something about them. And then. Then if you put the music to them that. The right music, then it all. It all adds up. I think that that's what. From what. From what I hear. Right. Because I don't. I never really go to Rolling Loud and see Playboy Carti perform and all that, but from what I hear and when people tell me his performances and all of this type of stuff, the way that people react. React. They're reacting as if he's a superstar.

[Leah]

Right. But it's. Yeah, but you can't connect it to the music necessarily. It's something about him. It's a quality about him.

[Mo]

Yeah. It's not a musical thing to me. It's a. It's more. It's got to be all about just his personality, his swag, the way, you.

[Leah]

Know what, his aura. Yeah, it's his aura. Yeah, I get it. 100.

[Matt]

You'd be feeling his aura.

[Leah]

No, not me. All right, bro. We just wanted to get some clarity on that. I appreciate you for calling me back, man.

[Matt]

All right. I want to have that conversation with him in person because I wasn't going to. I'm going let him get his off.

[Leah]

Yelling about the independent thing.

[Matt]

Yeah, I. I'm lost how he would be lost in that if whatever this program he was talking about that he saw the ad for. It's harder for independent artists to get in the algorithms, to get on a Spotify playlist to get all that. It is much easier for someone on a major to get that. So if there's a program. Program that is allowing artists to get into those algorithms without having to be on a major, that's only important for independent artists. Because that program people on majors already have, it's called the entire digital team.

[Leah]

The button. There you go.

[Matt]

No, no, I know.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Matt]

I agree that majors will get you on a playlist.

[Leah]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt]

Before independent all day. It's part harder for independent artists to do that. So of course, I see why whoever was advertising that would try to cater it to the people it would matter the most to.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Matt]

So that's where I'm confused with J.D. is confused at. And also, yes, J.D. owns his masters. Irv Gotti owned half his masters. They had joint ventures with major labels because they had a proven track record that was undeniable. There is no risk If I do a deal with Irv Gotti, look at what he's brought this building.

[Leah]

Right.

[Matt]

But Irv didn't get any percentage at all when he brought DMX to the building. When he brought Jay to the building. But they said, oh, Irv has brought our last two superstars and he's got this gaja rule. We should do a joint venture. And Irv had the leverage at that point to say, dog, no, you need to give me proof of concept. This is a 50, 50 joint venture that we're doing.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And because Irv had proved himself JD before he did the so. So Dev joint venture had proved himself to be a fucking genius.

[Leah]

Right.

[Matt]

So JD speaking from a deserved privileged place, like, not everybody is. Irv and jd, they had leverage, which is tough to have and it takes time and you have to sign a shitty deal usually before.

[Leah]

And they had. They had what we talk about.

[Matt]

Talent, Undeniable talent.

[Leah]

Right.

[Matt]

And proof that they were profitable. Right. Fuck talent. Talent.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Matt]

We know you can make hit records.

[Leah]

Absolutely.

[Matt]

So I. I don't really understand what JD was saying at all still.

[Leah]

Okay.

[Matt]

Even in context.

[Leah]

I'll text him and tell him that. So y'all can have a.

[Matt]

No, I'd love to. So y'all over some vegan ice cream. I would love to. Which I. I need to get a. They sell it at Walmart or Target. I gotta get Walmart. It was really good.

[Leah]

It might be in other stores now, but I know at the time it was. And it was definitely in Walmart.

[Matt]

Even if you're not a vegan. But you like ice cream. JD has amazing ice cream.

[Leah]

Great ice cream.

[Matt]

I feel like there's a pause somewhere in there, but I just can't find it. No, I was pausing myself by saying, JD is good ice cream.

[Leah]

He was being gay. Speaking of Playboi Carti, he has one week left. To drop I Am Music, or his label will have to refund all of the pre orders. I don't know if we think that's gonna happen. I think the music will end up coming out. I don't see the labels refunding.

[Matt]

If he was independent, he wouldn't have to do that.

[Leah]

Freedom points are made. But I do think the album will come out. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't see them ever letting it go there.

[Matt]

I don't think he's ever gonna put music out ever again.

[Leah]

Like, in life.

[Matt]

Yes. I think he, like, kind of enjoys what this mystery is now. Or he'll put out, like, a blank C cd.

[Leah]

He might be able to sell a blank cd.

[Matt]

Oh, he would definitely sell a blank cd.

[Leah]

Superstar. See? See how I reeled you right into that? Only superstars can do that.

[Matt]

I reeled you right into it. Not only could he do that, he also has the ability and a fan base that would call it genius.

[Leah]

Classic.

[Matt]

I could hear it.

[Leah]

Yeah. Y'all don't hear it, y'all.

[Matt]

No.

[Leah]

That could be. That would be a thing on Twitter, like, yo, y'all really don't hear the music? People, like, wait, what do you.

[Matt]

Went over, y'all heads.

[Leah]

Yeah, y'all really know. I really hear the music. Y'all. Y'all don't hear. Your shit is blank. Like, I could see people getting into a back and forth about that.

[Matt]

I. I wish that happened with Playboi Carti's music. I'm mad. I have to hear it.

[Leah]

Really. I. I don't really. Like I said, I don't. I can't connect it, but he is a. He is a superstar as far as I'm concerned. Other music coming out tonight. Well, if you're reading this, it's. It's already. Or you listen to this is already out. It's gonna be Jello and Glorilla.

[Matt]

It's gonna be a long Friday for Maul. Cause you know that's a bonafide hit.

[Leah]

Jell on Gorilla.

[Matt]

I. I don't even need to hear it. It could be a blank cd. That's a record.

[Leah]

That's the labels pushing the button. Back to what I'm saying.

[Matt]

They invested 7 million.

[Leah]

I know. That's their button. $7 million. That's how much a button cost. How much your buttons cost.

[Matt]

So you're telling me you don't think Jealous put in the necessary? He didn't put the work thousand hours to get that glow feature.

[Leah]

No, I don't think he did at all. Don't think he did. But whatever it is, I ain't no hater. Get your money. Gunner and Turbo. Classy girl. Wu Tang has Mandingo. I mean, I don't know who. Listen, we gotta talk to the brothers at Wu Tang to see is it an album? I don't know what it is, but whatever it is, I don't want no parts of Mandingo. Nah. But I'm assuming it's an album, though.

[Matt]

I feel like it'd be more promo Wu Tang.

[Leah]

I mean, I know they're going on.

[Matt]

Tour, but I just feel like there'd be more promo if Wu Tang putting out a full project.

[Leah]

But yeah, I don't know. But whatever it is, I'm finding out a minute. I'm checking it out. Benny the Butcher. The outcome come. Little Durk. Deep thoughts. And those are just some of the projects dropping already out now. If you're listening to this. So a lot of new music coming out. Good Friday for music.

[Matt]

I feel crazy even saying this. Benny is going to be the first album that I hit play on, but I think Jello and Glorilla is going to be the first thing I go to at midnight.

[Leah]

Yeah. Cause you just want to hear if I'm right. Just so you can text me and be like, yo, fam, you don't want to walk that take back.

[Matt]

Anytime Nas puts anything out, I drop what I'm doing to go listen. You don't think I give a goat like Jello the same respect.

[Leah]

Same respect as Nas? I like that for you.

[Matt]

Is Jello a superstar?

[Leah]

No, absolutely not. Absolutely not.

[Matt]

Not even he's on his way like Tyler, though. No, he's not the same thing.

[Leah]

No, it's. No, it's not water. And what's the name of the other record? Jello's record? Tweaker. Water and Tweak is not the same. Same thing. I mean, not even.

[Matt]

You smoke some water, you might.

[Leah]

You ain't listening to tweakers in four weeks.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Pissing me off.

[Matt]

Yo, you get so mad when I get crazy bars off. Like, it's starting to feel like jealousy at this point of you.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

I mean, man. Sir.

[Matt]

It'S been a rough week for you. Me, I smoked you at the top of the week, so I understand it.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Smoked me at the top of the week. By the way. You were saying your Instagram comments were saying that you won, but the YouTube comments comment said. And the Twitter comment said I won.

[Matt]

No, I went to the YouTube comments after you said that. And you misleaded me. You tried to manipulate me. No, they don't.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Okay.

[Matt]

They say I won. Okay, everybody. Everybody.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

Well, we all see the best. We all see what we want.

[Matt]

Wait till the major push that button for me.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

We all see what we want to see.

[Leah]

Either way, man, some good music coming out. I am excited to hear what Benny did with this project. Zing. So, yeah, definitely listen to that. Support these artists. Support all dope artists, man. We need to continue to support dope music. So a lot of good music out this Friday. What you got going on this weekend? I'll be chilling in the house, relaxing. Reset.

[Matt]

The way I was outside this week at 34 is not the same as when I was 24.

[Leah]

Recovery. You need recovery to recover. Yeah. Take a nice shower, bath, whatever you gotta do. Soak. Any plans, Baby D?

[Lisa Green Lewis]

No, I'm gonna start. What's that new show? Surrender. Severance. I'm gonna start Severance.

[Matt]

Severance is great.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

I'll start that parrot. It's dropping Sunday. Yeah, that's it.

[Leah]

I'm start that parrot. I showed it. Y'all been talking about what's.

[Matt]

What's his vlog on this week? On my week and got the special guest Y's in it. You know it's gonna go crazy.

[Leah]

Oh, yeah, Y. She shot it.

[Matt]

I mean, I assume she's creative director.

[Leah]

Shout out to Y. Shout out to yomi. All right, well, have a safe weekend. Be safe, be blessed. We'll talk to you in a couple days. I'm that. He's just Ginger. Peace.

[Mo]

No worrying now.

[Matt]

Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first. Like, you know, to check for the nearest bathroom first before the game starts. Now you're heading in the wrong direction and it sounds like your team's taking the lead. Checking first is smart, so check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Savings vary subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois.

[JD]

The battlefield is set. The stakes are high. The only thing standing between. Between you and victory. Nothing. Ascend to the pinnacle of gaming greatness with Lenovo Legion laptops, towers and the new award winning Legion Go, the world's first officially licensed handheld. Powered by SteamOS, Legion relentlessly pushes gaming technology forward with towers built for raw, untamed power. Laptops with best in class AI tuning that sharpen your reflexes. And the Legion Go, a handheld for serious gaming on the go. Stay ahead with lightning fast responsiveness on a stunning 16 inch PureSight display. Keep your cool with cold front thermal technology engineered for marathon sessions and with all day battery life. The game never stops until you say so. So check out lenovo.com legion lenovo lenovo empowering creators every everywhere CBS, Monday, February.

[Lisa Green Lewis]

24Th introducing the new daytime drama beyond the Gates. Welcome to Fairmont Crest Estates, where the wealthy and glamorous Dupre family rules the community with poise and sophistication. That is, until a cheating husband and his trophy wife start stirring up trouble. Find out what happens beyond these majestic gates and behind closed doors where scandal, romance, betrayal, passion, secrets and revenge await. CBS Daytime is about to get soapier. The new daytime drama beyond the gates premieres CBS Monday, February 24th and streaming on Paramount.

[Matt]

Plus, have you seen TGL presented by SoFi. It's golf's newest league. I got to see the debut of this. It was wild. It's so much fun. Two hours of hammer dropping overtime forcing playoffs on the line.

[Leah]

Go Golf.

[Matt]

With 24 of the best players from the PGA Tour, they're split into six teams. Atlanta, Boston, Jupiter, L.A. new York and the Bay. And it's not your average Sunday pickup game. Tune in every week for TGL matches only on espn. Tune in to TGL Monday night only on espn. Claim your seat for the first season of tgl. Now keep up. It's golf.