Episode 415 | Math Hoffa

Summary

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New Rory & MAL

Episode 415 | Math Hoffa
Date: October 17, 2025
Guests: Math Hoffa

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Rory and Mal are joined by legendary battle rapper and podcast host Math Hoffa for an in-depth conversation blending hip hop history, the evolution of battle rap, podcaster beefs, and personal growth. The episode covers topics from mourning D’Angelo’s passing and the state of rap’s young generation, to Math Hoffa’s reflections on trust, trauma, the business of podcasting, and his transition from battling to podcasting and fatherhood.

The conversation is equal parts candid, vulnerable, and hilarious, blending stories from hip hop’s golden era with real talk about loyalty, business, therapy, and community. The second half centers on Math Hoffa’s podcast journey, past conflicts with collaborators, and the healing required to move forward.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Mourning the Loss of D’Angelo (05:00–16:00)

• Rory and Mal pay tribute to D’Angelo, reflecting on his profound impact on R&B and the personal void left by his death.
• The hosts discuss D’Angelo’s influence, his mystery, and their own memories tied to his music.
• Mal notes the uniqueness of D’Angelo’s style and how “he changed the sound and energy in R&B soul. So many people that are an extension of his talent and his musical genius.” (07:19)
• Discussion of the emotional effect of D’Angelo’s passing, and the lack of public drama or controversy that often surrounds icons.
• They touch on the possible release of unfinished projects, noting how D’Angelo was privately battling pancreatic cancer and reportedly working on several projects.
• Lighthearted banter about Benzino’s unintentionally comedic tribute video referencing D’Angelo’s iconic “Untitled” video (13:11).

Notable Quote:
“He was just the coolest of the cool, man... left an incredible legacy and did it his way. Terrible loss for the culture and for music, but his work and influence live on.” — NRM Mall (09:21)

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2. The State of Modern Rap & The “Big Three” Conversation (17:07–36:40)

• The hosts lament the absence of new superstar rappers under 35 with true “legend” potential. They debate if there’s another era of rap domination like Jay-Z, Wayne, Kanye, or Nas.
• Names like NBA YoungBoy, Playboi Carti, Yeat, Rod Wave, Doja Cat, Lil Baby, Jack Harlow, and Gunna are discussed—but most are considered “stars,” not future legends.
• Mal: “We can’t even name five under-35 rappers that are the next legends. That’s scary.” (23:27)
• They note that much of today’s top rap output is still coming from artists who have been in the game 15+ years.
• There’s mutual admiration for contemporary women in rap, with the point made that “women are clearly running rap right now” (36:16).

Notable Quote:
"Nobody knows what to do. Like, no one knows where to take hip hop to evolve it. It’s not charting the way it once used to." — Baby D (32:46)

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3. Women in Rap: Leading the Culture (36:11–36:39)

• The hosts and Baby D point out that while the conversation around rap "legends" often centers on men, women are currently pushing the culture artistically and commercially.
• Referencing new Icy Spice and Destiny’s Child/Beyoncé flips, they highlight how easily they can name five impactful women artists.

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4. Math Hoffa Joins: Industry, Business & Loyalty (42:33–74:25)

• Math Hoffa joins the show, diving into his transition from battle rap icon to top-tier podcaster.
• The conversation begins with the issue of music rights and copyright takedowns on digital platforms:
  • Math: “It just bewilders me that, yo, it’s 2025. There’s not many platforms that will promote y’all music anymore... Lyricism needs to continue, but new audiences can’t even hear this music if we’re getting hit with copyrights.” (43:49–44:56)
• Podcast business fallouts: Math candidly recounts trust issues and betrayal he experienced with former collaborators on "My Expert Opinion":
  • Details on “strike one, two, and three”—highlighting mismanagement, suspect contracts with Revolt, lack of transparency, and side projects launching behind his back.
  • Math: “Loyalty is something... it’s serious for me. When you start to play with that or do things I don’t understand, I’m not going through this with you because you’re not blood, you’re not family.” (55:25)
• Street trauma and business: Math reflects on how his background shapes his approach to trust, loyalty, and conflict—sometimes in ways that aren’t compatible with the business world.
• On reconciling differences and moving forward: Math and the hosts discuss the importance of open communication, holding each other accountable, and recognizing personal trauma carried from street experiences into the professional realm.

Notable Quote:
“It does seem like it literally was miscommunication based off of personal feelings and trauma that causes you to kind of like, isolate and be like, I’m cutting that off. I’m not dealing with that. I’m not going down that road because I know where that could lead.” — NRM Mall (67:04)

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5. Vulnerability, Therapy & Growth (73:03–78:39)

• Math opens up about his recent personal hardships: health scares, losing a child, and the spiritual wakeup calls that shifted his priorities.
• Math: "The lights going out in the shop was just like, God telling me, stop, look around, shit is falling apart...Go take care of that." (73:03)
• He discusses using mentorship, family, and faith to navigate loss and adversity, and the challenges of being vulnerable as a public figure with a traumatic past.
• The group highlights how battle rap culture often "weaponizes your trauma against you," making honesty and openness difficult but essential for growth.

Notable Quote:
"I have some good mentorship...people that keep me level-headed...sometimes I need to hear that, and my kids—being a girl dad—keep me focused." — Math Hoffa (76:05)

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6. The Future of “My Expert Opinion” & Battle Rap Reflections (80:03–101:47)

• The discussion shifts to Math Hoffa's podcast direction:
  • Math expresses hope for healing and possibly reuniting with former cast members, but reiterates his main focus: uplifting his community and staying true to himself.
  • Featuring more battle rap personalities, especially Zip—“You and Zip are perfect, yin and yang, but also similar in so many ways.” (80:19)
  • Math’s “redemption” arc: sitting down with former adversaries to create examples of healthy conflict resolution for fans.
• Extended battle rap talk: the Joe Budden vs. Hollow event, Daylyt’s infamous stage antics, and how reality-TV “Making the Band” approaches did or did not fit battle rap culture.
• Math, Mal, and Rory banter about top moments, crowd reactions, and the importance of supporting not only Smack URL, but all battle leagues that champion lyricism.

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7. Math Hoffa on Purpose, Music, and Podcasting (92:16–96:06)

• Math discusses the challenge of accepting that rapping is now a “hobby,” and podcasting is the primary job: “It’s hard to accept that rap is a hobby now...it’s not beautiful if you start dreaming about rocking stadiums and wake up a podcaster.” (92:42)
• Rory reframes this as a blessing—podcasting gives freedom from chasing hits and lets Math create music on his own terms.
• Math talks about founding his label, DFG Records, to support his friend Brooklyn Hands during his battle with stage-four cancer, underscoring his loyalty and community-first mentality.

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8. Battle Rap: Legacy, Mount Rushmore, and Dream Matchups (89:07–113:13)

• Rory praises Math's third round against Hollow as a “top five all time” and elicits Math’s view on why some battle angles land harder than others.
• Math dreams up a battle with Jadakiss or another “legends only” type event, noting the artistry rather than pure competition.
• Ultimately, Math singles out Murder Mook as the one match-up he’d come out of retirement for, given their shared legacy and the challenge it would present:
  “For me to be motivated, it’s either got to be somebody who I feel like, yo, I gotta push the pen, or I really don’t like you. If I really don’t like you, you die.” (112:48)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “He was just the coolest of the cool, man...left an incredible legacy and did it his way.” — NRM Mall (09:21)
• “Loyalty is something... it's serious for me. And when you start to play with that or you start to do things that I don't understand...I'm not going through this with you because you're not blood, you're not family.” — Math Hoffa (55:25)
• “Sometimes the universe and timing just have to exist...one month of one year can change literally everything as far as what a rollout is.” — Rory (30:34)
• “Women are clearly running rap right now.” — NRM Mall (36:16)
• "I have some good mentorship...and my kids—being a girl dad—keep me focused." — Math Hoffa (76:05)
• “Podcasting gives you free range to do what you want with music...that’s the blessing.” — Rory (94:15)

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Memorable Moments & Lighter Banter

• The crew’s running joke about Jack Harlow using “cheat code” samples and the debate over original artistry in mainstream rap (24:29–26:57).
• Benzino’s take on D’Angelo’s “Untitled” video, leading to a round of laughter and hot takes about posthumous tributes (13:11).
• Math’s deadpan response to voicemails, especially the prosthetic penis inquiry, providing comic relief and signature podcast unpredictability (104:54–109:10).
• Math reflecting on “trap rapper turn trap,” gunshot sound effects, and the perils of listening to battle rap intros with a sleeping child nearby (97:57–98:39).

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• D’Angelo Tribute: 05:00–16:00
• Rap’s Young Generation & “Legend” Conversation: 17:07–36:40
• Women Running Rap: 36:11–36:39
• Math Hoffa Joins / Podcast Business & Loyalty: 42:33–74:25
• Mental Health, Vulnerability, and Growth: 73:03–78:39
• Podcast Direction & Battle Rap Community: 80:03–101:47
• Rap as “Hobby” & Music/Podcast Balance: 92:16–96:06
• Battle Rap: Legacy, Dream Matchups: 89:07–113:13
• Voicemail Segment (prosthetic question): 104:54–109:10

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

The episode is raw, real, and at times deeply introspective. Math Hoffa’s openness—about his trauma, loyalty issues, and business struggles—sets the tone for a conversation about resilience, respect, and the costs of authenticity in public creative life.

For hip hop fans, podcast heads, and anyone interested in the human stories behind cultural movements, this episode is a blend of humor, history, wisdom, and heartfelt honesty.

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Transcript

[Baby D]

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[Rory]

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[NRM Mall]

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[Math Hoffa]

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[Rory]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I don't know if you've heard, but Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores. That means no small talk.

[Math Hoffa]

Crazy weather we're having.

[Rory]

No it's not. It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Cindy Crawford]

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[Math Hoffa]

No worrying now.

[Rory]

We are back. End of the week. Yes, still freezing in New York. I love it. This is. This is when I come alive.

[NRM Mall]

Weather drop fast, huh?

[Rory]

October, I think is my favorite month of the entire year.

[NRM Mall]

You missed October.

[Rory]

I'm not Mr. October. Your October is very own though. For sure.

[NRM Mall]

That's a fact.

[Rory]

But don't ever say that's a fact to be like that.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rory]

Nah, you NRM mall.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, exactly.

[Rory]

And I'm NRM Roy.

[Math Hoffa]

Exactly.

[NRM Mall]

You don't. You don't rm.

[Rory]

Yes, I know. But it's like if it's our click, it's like our asap. Yeah, yeah.

[NRM Mall]

NRMP should blood in, blood out.

[Rory]

No, I go, how come you don't have an NRM Baby D chain?

[Baby D]

You ain't bought one.

[Rory]

Oh, yeah, I forgot. We would have to buy that.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, yeah, no, she could buy it.

[Baby D]

No, the. I won't.

[Rory]

We never had a chaining day for.

[NRM Mall]

For the Mary right here. She got with us. The.

[Rory]

Yeah. Walking around with the croch of hilarious.

[NRM Mall]

Baby. Do you know that was your chain right there?

[Math Hoffa]

No.

[Rory]

Yeah, no, you got, I don't know our chain. Today was what, going to WTF with Eden.

[NRM Mall]

Was that our chain?

[Rory]

Pretty much.

[NRM Mall]

Pretty much.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah.

[Rory]

The Vimeo day.

[Baby D]

Did y' all pay for Eden tattoo or did he pay for that himself?

[Rory]

It was free because we did content with. Was that inked? I forgot.

[NRM Mall]

I forgot the name of the spot.

[Rory]

Yeah, I still got to get my. My Basley tattoo touched up a little bit.

[NRM Mall]

Oh, yeah, you got tatted that day.

[Rory]

Yeah. I'll go back with Eddie. He can get his touched up.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah.

[Rory]

But anyways, we are back. How's your week been?

[NRM Mall]

I've been with the week every day.

[Rory]

We've seen each other every day.

[NRM Mall]

You know exactly how my week's been.

[Rory]

Yeah. Youngberg AKA hit maker episode is out right now.

[NRM Mall]

Shout out to hit maker.

[Rory]

Great conversation. If you haven't checked it out, it's hilarious. He tells some very funny stories, my guy. He's. He's like Maul said off mike yesterday. He's. He's in that bow wow like Forrest Gump of hip hop type type area.

[NRM Mall]

His origin is crazy.

[Rory]

It's absolutely insane.

[NRM Mall]

His origin story is absolutely crazy.

[Rory]

Like going like being discovered by DMX.

[NRM Mall]

And then being signed to dmx then.

[Rory]

Being signed to Mona Scott.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Not in Violator.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rory]

It's kind of nuts, but we've had Berg on a few times and he still somehow always tells us new stories every time it comes on. So he's great guest. Check that out.

[NRM Mall]

How many songs he got dropping today? 21, he said.

[Rory]

I think more than that. And so you're like 30 or 40 or something as you're listening to this.

[NRM Mall]

He working, man. I got a hit maker.

[Rory]

I gotta Know what his pub deal look like?

[NRM Mall]

Life is good, living in Miami. I might need house paid, no mortgage.

[Rory]

I might need to buy a car.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, he. He chilling here. He came.

[Rory]

He's putting out 40 songs. Let me borrow two today.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, man, just borrow a song. Exactly, man.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah.

[Rory]

We are sponsored by Boost. Right now. We have merch [e-mail] Also, if you want to hear this episode. And ad free, $5 for the whole month. Every single episode is ad free. Where do you want to start? I don't want to start in a somber place, but I mean, I feel like we do need to start by saying rest in peace to one of the greatest musicians, singers, artists of our time, d'. Angelo. Yeah, this. This was one of those. This, like when artists die or celebrities die sometimes, like, oh, that sucks. But this, this one, like, hurt. Like, I felt like I know him.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

And I've never met him. Yeah, yeah, this, this. I don't even know where to begin on this one. How many times in the last 10 years of podcasting have we just discussed how D' Angelo is one of our favorite artists ever? Anytime we have an R and B debate, first name, we bring it up like he was one of them.

[NRM Mall]

Absolutely.

[Rory]

Like, you can't compare his voice or style to any other artist, period, whether it be pop, R and B, neospo, whatever. He. I mean, he. He was a goat with, you know, three albums that he spread out and each generation and era that he put an album out. He changed the face of music during it.

[NRM Mall]

Absolutely.

[Rory]

So, yeah, I mean, you know, condolences to his family. Definitely. To his. His son. Definitely. Probably rough, Rough year for him, losing both parents. So. So prayers and condolences to his son as well as his daughter too. But did you ever have the privilege of meeting d'? Angelo?

[NRM Mall]

He was in the studio one night. I forgot whose session it was. He was in the studio, but we never. I never had the privilege of having an actual one on one conversation and kicking it with him and giving him his flowers. But, you know, when you say D', Angelo, you know, for somebody growing up in the 90s, we call that the golden era of music. R and B especially. D' Angelo was. Was the guy that, you know, absolutely changed the style. You know, you used to seeing musicians look a certain way. You're not used to seeing musicians with the talent level of a. D' Angelo would have cornrows and, you know, leather jackets and no shirt. Like, it was like, you know, he just changed the style of what Musicians look like, especially in the 90s. Like, he just came in and was, you know, just completely, completely just changed the sound and energy in R B soul. So many people that are an extension of his talent and his musical genius. So receiving that news of his passing was definitely heavy, like, you know, because d' Angelo was never somebody that was ever really in the headlines.

[Rory]

No.

[NRM Mall]

So it's easy to kind of like, not think about d' Angelo unless you like, hearing his music or like, you. You know, he happens to working on a new project. So when, you know, I forgot who had the chat and was like, d' Angelo passed, I was like, I read that. I was like, whoa.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[NRM Mall]

You know, I mean, just reading that was just like, that's somebody he wasn't expecting to just, you know, read. Passed away. But after privately, you know, battling the illness and things like that, you know, the family decided to keep that, you know, because he was. Again, he was not. D' Angelo wasn't somebody that was ever really in the headlines. Yeah, it wasn't nothing negative. You know, it was just like, if it wasn't about music, if he wasn't performing, you didn't know what d' Angelo was doing. And I think that's the way he wanted it. That's the way he. You know, part of his mystique and his aura was. Was strictly about the music and his talent. But so young, you know, to pass away at 51. And his talent, man, you know, obviously had to live on. His music lives on. But, yeah, d' Angelo was one of the greats. You know, for him to no longer be with us, you know, so soon is just like. It just kind of like, you know, puts you in a fog. Cause you can't really, like, damn like, that fast so soon, like, but, you know, one of the greatest. Remember listening to, you know, lady and Brown Sugar, being in high school, like, he was just the soundtrack. If you was like, had a crush on a girl, you had to play d'. Angelo. You had to, like, you know, if it was a talent show, it was like, who gonna sing d'? Angelo? Like, everybody can't.

[Rory]

Who's gonna try to do that? It's probably not gonna work out.

[NRM Mall]

D', Angelo, like, he was just the coolest of the cool man. So. Prayers and condolences. His family left an incredible legacy. You know, just somebody just had so much musical integrity and so much style and. And did it his way. So, yeah, man, it's. It's a terrible loss for. For the culture and for music, but, you know, his work is here. His. His music is here, the people that he influences here, the artists that he worked with is still here. So, you know, his music and his art lives on. For sure.

[Rory]

Yeah. When I was working for Kevin Lyles, he was working with d', Angelo, I guess you could say, managing d' Angelo at that time for the Black Messiah album. And d', Angelo, you know, obviously never came to the office. Never was, like, you know, part of any meetings or anything. But when I say anytime Kev would play, like, a song from that album before it came out, like, we would all just gather around like, the media room door, like children, and just put our ear to the side to try to hear that. So, like, seeing that project from an office standpoint completely come together was, like, just an honor to be next to somebody that was working with d'. Angelo. Like, yeah, I had nothing whatsoever to do. I was just in the office. But that was, like, one of the coolest times ever of, like, damn, I'm listening to a d' Angelo project right now. Yeah, like, nobody's heard.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

But, yeah, me and Dixon were in Electric lady, which is a very famous studio in New York City where, you know, d' Angelo recorded most of his work. So aquariums from Eric Badu, everyone, you know, recorded out of there. We, like, didn't work for, like, an hour and a half because we were just sitting there talking like, yo. Like, d' Angelo sat right here.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Like, we shouldn't be allowed in this. Like, why are we. Why are we working in here? This is nuts. Like, that's the same booth.

[NRM Mall]

Incredible talent, man.

[Rory]

So, yeah, rest in peace. Again, I don't know if you have any d' Angelo memories. No, not, like, personal.

[Baby D]

Just, like, you know, you guys covered everything. He's a good job.

[Rory]

Yeah, I did. See, and I'm not sure if this was a rumor or confirmed that prior to his death, he was working on. Did it say, like, six different projects or something he was working on?

[NRM Mall]

That wouldn't surprise me.

[Rory]

So, I mean, hopefully that means, you know, we're still going to get d' Angelo music that he would want out, not just some that a label threw together with old DAT tapes. But, yeah, he was privately battling pancreatic cancer, so it wouldn't surprise me if he. He was planning these projects for after his death. So, you know, I hope we get to at least hear those sometime soon.

[NRM Mall]

Absolutely.

[Rory]

But, yeah, I don't really know how to turn. Turn them around, Benzino. This was just a perfect example of.

[NRM Mall]

Sometimes d' Angelo to Benzino's. Because I know.

[Rory]

I know.

[NRM Mall]

That's absolutely crazy.

[Rory]

Like, it's a perfect example of, like. Of, like, sometimes honoring legends that have passed. Like, you should just sit out sometimes. We don't need to know what, like, what influences you had from him after his death, because I do believe that Benzino was influenced by d'. Angelo. All of us were. But I didn't need to see, like, exactly how Benzino was influenced.

[Baby D]

Okay. I cannot. Okay.

[NRM Mall]

No, I don't. I don't think Benzino was influenced by d'. Angelo. Nothing about Benzino's music. Nothing that. I think this is just. We call it. This is cloud chasing. I think that's exactly what this is.

[Rory]

Nah, but he was doing it.

[Baby D]

Or is this.

[Rory]

Yeah, he was. Come on. He was giving d' Angelo his flowers before.

[Baby D]

Yeah, that's. Yeah. He didn't just do that when he died.

[Rory]

That would be nuts.

[Math Hoffa]

But.

[NRM Mall]

Oh, he didn't just do this.

[Rory]

No, it's still nuts.

[NRM Mall]

Wait, so he had this in the vault?

[Rory]

Matter of fact, I think it's more disrespectful doing this when d' Angelo is alive so he can see it.

[Math Hoffa]

Why.

[NRM Mall]

But why?

[Rory]

Oh, no. Peach is going to have to put that somewhere on the screen. It's. It's the Untitled video. When d' Angelo is. Is shirtless with that shadow, But Benzino took that and put his own spin on it. Oh, with him being shirtless.

[NRM Mall]

This is his. How does it feel?

[Rory]

Yes.

[NRM Mall]

Okay, okay, listen, man. I mean, I stayed corrected. This was before this video was out. Before d' Angelo passed.

[Rory]

Yes. Okay.

[NRM Mall]

And I stand correct. And when maybe Benzino was influenced by.

[Rory]

No, no, he was suggesting, like, you know, he posted it when Benzino passed. Like, hey, I've been influenced in my career by him. Here's an example of. Of how. How it made him feel.

[NRM Mall]

Okay?

[Rory]

And I saw it. I saw d' Angelo's son post something of, you know, it's been a tough year. Thank you guys for having me in your thoughts and prayers. I'll definitely need it. Like, keep. Keep telling me that. Do you think this made him feel any better? Like, some things. Some tributes should just be, like, kept in the top. I'm sure he read Beyonce's post and was like, oh, man, that's. That's really cool to know that my pops.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

You know, influenced one of the biggest pop stars ever. Like, those types of things, I think, help in grief and death. If I saw this, like, that's gonna. That's gonna delay. Like, funeral plans. I'm gonna be so angry.

[Math Hoffa]

I.

[Baby D]

Honestly, it probably gave him a laugh. It probably gave him a. Like. Like.

[Rory]

Or him and his dad may have laughed at that together before. That could have been a good memory.

[Baby D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[NRM Mall]

Like, if that was out before his passing, then, yeah, I'm pretty sure d' Angelo laughed at that. Absolutely.

[Rory]

Yeah. I also thought. It's also crazy to think that James got the last recorded d' Angelo record that was put out. Font Laura, James Samuel for the soundtrack for the Book of Clarence. It was the Jay Z. Oh, yeah. Angelo record.

[NRM Mall]

I want you forever.

[Rory]

Yeah, yeah. So that's. That was the last one that was put out while he was alive, which is crazy to think.

[NRM Mall]

But now that would make sense, though, James working with dm.

[Rory]

Oh, absolutely.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah.

[NRM Mall]

That makes sense.

[Rory]

Yeah. I'm sure they had been talking about that for quite some time even before that, because I think James even went in interviews and, like, Hope didn't even know about it. And he just was sending him snippets. And I think he said hov was on the treadmill. Sending him bars while he was running on the treadmill because he had this d' Angelo record. Like, yeah, I rap for Daniel.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, you got a d' Angelo record? Yeah, I'll get on that for sure.

[Rory]

That's such a. That's such a cool way for hip hop to age. Like, a guy in his 50s on a treadmill writing raps to a D' Angelo record.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah. For a movie called Book of Clarence.

[Rory]

And then sending them as voice notes to, like, someone's iPhone.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, that should have checked out. Absolutely.

[Rory]

But, yeah, I wish you guys wouldn't have shamed me so much when I thought d' Angelo was down the hall from me those months ago.

[NRM Mall]

Oh, yeah, I remember that.

[Baby D]

Oh, yeah, I remember that.

[NRM Mall]

When you kept. When you kept conveniently having to walk to the bathroom. Yeah, yeah.

[Rory]

In the dungeon at Flux. Yeah, but I talked to the.

[NRM Mall]

But when you told us that, I understood it, though. Like, I got it.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah.

[NRM Mall]

I was like, no, listen, that's. That's d'. Angelo. I get it. But it's like, there's a way to go about that still. But I understood. It's d', Angelo, bro. Like, as a musician, as anybody, the producer, as an artist, if you have the opportunity to be in the same room, especially a studio, and just talk to d' Angelo and pick his brain about music, I mean, you definitely have to take that opportunity whenever you can, because you don't know when you'll have that opportunity again.

[Rory]

And because he had probably the most unique voice in R and B history. Maybe outside of, like, Marvin Gay. You know when you're walking past a studio and like, all right, that's d'. Angelo. And I've never heard that song.

[NRM Mall]

Right.

[Rory]

What the. Is going on in there?

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah.

[Rory]

But, yeah, Benzino, I guess we all. We all grieve different.

[NRM Mall]

We do. That is very true, Rory. We do grieve differently. Absolutely.

[Rory]

Big L and the Mass Appeal album we talked about last episode. But they put out the first single with Nas. You ain't got a chance with a visual, too, that I thought was. Was really cool. Just going through old Harlem and old Queens. First record is Fire out the Gate.

[NRM Mall]

Mass Appeal again.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Nas on the first single, Mass going crazy.

[NRM Mall]

What is Mass appeal doing in 2025, man?

[Rory]

And we getting the full Nas and Primo shit together.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah. Like, Nas sat back and was like, all right, because.

[Math Hoffa]

Because.

[NRM Mall]

Because Berg did say, you know, the question he asked, and I've been thinking about that since last night was like, under 35. No legacy.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[NRM Mall]

Acts who are the rap. Who are the guys who are the top five. And I'm that, like, I cannot believe. I cannot name. I could name one.

[Rory]

Well, I mean, that's where I'm. I'm kind of mad. We were right, however many years ago when we were like, yo, do you think there's going to be another Big three? Another rap super? Like, I. I can't see it. I can see when we.

[NRM Mall]

A big one.

[Rory]

Like when we was leaving 50 hov. Kanye, Wayne, like, we could see.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

There was, like, six people that were candidates in the beginning.

[NRM Mall]

Absolutely.

[Rory]

Of course, it switched and we got to a three, but we were all looking at five to six. Shit. Maybe even said, like, whiz could have been that. I can't really see one.

[Total Wireless Announcer]

Right.

[NRM Mall]

It's. It's crazy, man. And I. You know, I think.

[Rory]

But we're haters.

[Baby D]

They go. I was gonna say they gonna kick y' all ass about. Not talk about Playboy Cardi and Young Boy and White Playbo. Listen, hey, I'm not talking about. About what we. I'm talking about. You're talking about rap superstars and let people.

[NRM Mall]

Cardi's not a rapper. To me.

[Rory]

No, he's a. He's like a noise. Okay.

[Baby D]

NBA Young Boy.

[Rory]

We brought. We brought him up.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

We brought Young Kodak up as well, with. Well, how old is Playboy Carti?

[Baby D]

30.

[Rory]

So even there, like, I think what Berg was asking was Eve, like, even younger than Cardi. I know but even when we brought up, like, Travis, I agree with him. He's like, I already see Travis is already getting to the legendary. Like, Travis is not a rapper. That too.

[NRM Mall]

So I put. I put Playboy in that same Travis area.

[Baby D]

Rock star.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? It's. It's not. When I say I'm talking Nas, Jay, Wayne, you know what I'm saying? Like, that type of those guys that rap. Like, where. Where is it?

[Baby D]

But see, but. But that's. But that's that Young boy. Because you can't.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, but he. But he even said he was. Like, he feels like Young boy is more already, like, in his own legacy kind of thing already because he's been lit. Like, that's. Yeah, this is not new for you.

[Rory]

Yeah. Young boy.

[NRM Mall]

People are just catching on to it.

[Rory]

Like, dominating.

[NRM Mall]

Ben had his own, you know what I'm saying? Culture.

[Baby D]

So y' all are base. Looking for people after young boy. Like, that's like rap.

[Rory]

Yeah, okay. Rap is a young man sport.

[NRM Mall]

So look. So look, take young boy. All right? So take young boy. Name four more.

[Baby D]

Oh, I can't. I'm like.

[NRM Mall]

But this is what I'm saying. Even if you say, yeah, young boy. Okay, who else? Then what?

[Rory]

After that, I said Yeet, but got laughed at. Yeah, listen, I've seen footage of Yeet concerts. Like, he has a crazy fan base.

[NRM Mall]

Oh, no, I'm not saying you don't have a fan base.

[Rory]

I'm talking about, oh, he's an awful rapper. Don't get me wrong. Like, he makes terrible music in my opinion. Clearly, that doesn't matter because he's selling out more tickets than I could ever dream.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Of selling. I'm not trying to disrespect him in that way, but that's why I brought. I didn't bring him up ironically. Like, that would be considered rap now. And he is dominating as far as streams and hard ticket sales. Like, he is. I. I think the biggest record on the last Drake project was the one with. With Yeet outside of first person shooter, Rod Wave.

[NRM Mall]

I.

[Rory]

Not a rapper singer. I give him his credit. Like, he's definitely dominating the younger generation. But would you consider him a rapper?

[NRM Mall]

I wouldn't consider Rod Wave a rapper.

[Baby D]

Okay.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah. Rap.

[Rory]

He's almost, like, exclusively singing to me. Maybe he gets a little 12 off every now and then.

[NRM Mall]

I don't know.

[Baby D]

But Doja cat is only 29.

[Rory]

He brought up Dojo.

[NRM Mall]

No, but he was talking about, like, male. On the male side.

[Baby D]

Oh, okay. Yeah.

[Rory]

No. Who Roddy Ricch. I like Roddy Ricch a lot. And he had.

[NRM Mall]

Now we just going. See, we just doing it.

[Baby D]

Yeah, I'll say. I just name it.

[NRM Mall]

Now we just Google. Now we just Google rappers and we just name a name.

[Rory]

No, don't. Don't do that. Because Roddy, a few years ago, it did look like the same way. Maybe we were looking at Sean Wiz Wale Cole. Like, Roddy had that moment for a year, was like, oh, he could be. If he keeps this pace up, he could be that. But then he put out the album that he even admitted fucking stunk. And it definitely, like, redirected his career and any type of steam that he had, and he just pushed his album back for, like, the 17th time.

[NRM Mall]

But I guess Little Baby would probably be the one. Most people would probably. It would be like a little Baby.

[Rory]

Because all y' all said we were. We were moving into the Little Baby era. And I'm still. I'm still waiting for the moving company.

[NRM Mall]

No, but I'm. I'm just saying, like, he would be one of the guys that people would name it would be a Little Baby. Maybe even throw Meek in it. Well, no. How old is Meek?

[Baby D]

Meek is.

[Rory]

Meek's older than me.

[Baby D]

Older?

[NRM Mall]

Yeah. Okay.

[Baby D]

Yeah, not old, but.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, but so it would be like the Little baby. It would be.

[Rory]

Guys like, Gun is definitely there, but it's gonna.

[Math Hoffa]

Gonna.

[Baby D]

Might be older than.

[NRM Mall]

Is he. But is he.

[Rory]

Rat Gun is older than 35.

[Baby D]

I say he might be. I'm not sure. I'll check.

[Rory]

Wait, 32.

[NRM Mall]

He's 32. Yeah.

[Rory]

Okay. I was gonna say, you can't be wearing, like, them. Them leather rain boots after 35. Like, that's.

[NRM Mall]

That's.

[Rory]

That's a young man's sport.

[NRM Mall]

Kanye do it.

[Rory]

Kanye never. Like, he's Peter Pan.

[NRM Mall]

I don't even know. I don't even know what that means.

[Baby D]

He means that he never grew up.

[Rory]

All he does is talk about his inner creative child.

[NRM Mall]

Oh, man. Yeah, but that. That was a. You know, that was a. A great, you know, like, Central Third Definitely stumped me with that one. I was like, damn. I never really thought about saying him that.

[Math Hoffa]

But, yeah, every young NBA player.

[Rory]

Oh, no. What Youngboy we're saying is there. We're trying to figure out the rap.

[Baby D]

Is there anyone else?

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, we named Young Boy, but he said name five. So I said, okay, Young Boy.

[Caller Frank Little]

Cool.

[NRM Mall]

Give me four. More. Like, we sitting here. We don't even. We just like. Yeah, and that's crazy to say that. We can't even do that in. In rap. Like you can't name five of the guys under 35 that are like the next legends. Like, that's scary. That is scary.

[Rory]

Jack. Jack Harlow.

[Baby D]

Jack Harlow is not gonna be a legend.

[Rory]

Well, we're saying the next guy. Wait, and that's for what's also up.

[NRM Mall]

To just say about somebody like, yo, he ain't gonna be a legend. He might have an incredible next three year.

[Baby D]

No, he might. I'm sorry, I'm. I apologize. Right. I'm just saying it doesn't appear to be on that trajectory for him. I do, I want the best.

[NRM Mall]

He got Diamond Records, though. Like, he got it. He has successful.

[Baby D]

A lot of people have diamond records.

[NRM Mall]

We ain't gonna say a lot.

[Baby D]

A lot of people have records that have not had a successful full career, but they have a diamond record.

[Rory]

No, hold on. How much? I think you're thinking that because he had so much output for like three years and took a break, just cuz you're taking a break doesn't mean he's not. Doesn't have the same steam. Like if he comes out with another single, which he's clearly capable of, Even the I'm Vanilla Baby popped right after all those other diamond records. He's capable of like continuing that trajectory.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, but I don't like, you know, I don't like that. And I think Jack is talented, but I don't like that because you naming records that are like samples and flips of big records, it's like, that's a cheat code to me. Like, give me your original sound. Your original record, that's a smash, that's a hit. A classic record with no sample. Like, give me that. Like when you say I'm vanilla like that. What's the name? What's the name of that record? Whatever.

[Baby D]

Me Loving on Me Loving on.

[NRM Mall]

Great record. But we know that, we know that song already. Like that's already a. A hit record that we've heard years ago.

[Rory]

Don't do that though. Cause okay, Kanye and Lupe Fiasco Touch the Sky coming into his second album. Like, that was not even a sample flip. It was just the fucking song.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, but before that, Kanye had already had his own sounds, his own songs that didn't have like, it may be samples in it, but not as heavy as the Jack Hall. That was just. That wasn't. Was that even like a cover?

[Rory]

I think to older people, which I've talked about before, like when my past was never like against rapper was like a rap Hater. But like, a lot of the songs that I would listen to, he'd be like, I know this, the real song.

[NRM Mall]

Like, well, hip hop is based off the break.

[Rory]

I don't think we should just put the rules for Jack there. When all of our favorite rappers ever have gotten hit records with very, very noticeable samples.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, but that's super noticeable. So name another Jack record.

[Rory]

Well, pause. The Jackman album, First Class.

[NRM Mall]

Is that not another cover?

[Rory]

No, his three biggest singles are for sure, like, big.

[NRM Mall]

So that's what I'm saying. Like, I'm just. I'm just saying that about Jack. Like, I get it. He's talented and he has big records. But like, Jack gotta give me Jack, though. Like, not the flip of a song that was already huge years ago. He bringing it back, putting his own spin on it. I get that that's part of hip hop sampling and taking, you know, the breakbeat is the sample. But it's like, we need your sound, we need your song. We need your record. Original record. Like, give us yours. Not a flip on something else.

[Rory]

I mean. Well, that's why I kind of appreciated Jackman, which you just have to pause. I just wish he would call it something else. Yeah, like, he went with the pop rap with Come Home the Kids Miss you did well. Bunch of singles. Churchill Downs was fucking one of the best records of that year too. Without a crazy sample. Of course. You have one of the better Drake features features in the last decade. But that'll help sometimes. But he went helps a little bit. And just to shoot the video with.

[NRM Mall]

Him at the Kentucky Dirt. I mean, all of that helps.

[Rory]

Who directed that was one of the most fire videos I've seen in quite some time. That was incredible. Who Jack I on for that?

[NRM Mall]

No, like Drake, actually.

[Rory]

Drake overshot. Oh, yeah. That's one of those. Like. Well, that Drake versus That's where it's up.

[NRM Mall]

That Drake versus Insane. I would have. Like, you're. You're ecstatic when that verse comes back. As an artist. Like, Drake sends you that. But it's like, God damn my. Like, you've whooped my ass on this record. Like, yeah, but you're not mad. Cause you know what it's gonna do. And you coming out to Kentucky to do the video with my mom. I'm not complaining.

[Rory]

Standing next to each other for the first time.

[NRM Mall]

It's like, Jesus Christ, you whoop my ass.

[Rory]

Yeah. We get to shoot in slow mo horses at the Kentucky Derby on a red camera like insane. And even that. Like, I remember when Jay Z was on one Epstein, and they brought up that Nas line of an Eminem killed you on your own shit. Jay was like, well, I don't believe that. But okay, did I should. I want a bad M verse for my album, right? It's like, yeah, of course I'd like you to fucking give me your best feature verse ever. But Jackman was not any of the. Like, he was flipping soul samples and like chipmunk and shit. But again, it felt more like a mixtape. And it didn't have the same commercial success, but it didn't feel like that was even his approach. But he did that on his own.

[NRM Mall]

After without any of that on that his album. I thought that year with Churchill Downs on Hurry Up, Come Home to Kids Mission.

[Rory]

Come on kids, miss you.

[NRM Mall]

Great project. I like that project. But even again, it's like a guy that I would at one point. And Rory knows how I feel about Kodak. I would have had him in that conversation. He's had his troubles, jail, you know, drugs, things like that. You know, just real life issues that kind of got in the way of some of his trajectory. But I think Kodak, to me, Kodak Black is better than all of these guys as far as rapping that we talking about. So, you know, but you know, things get in the way of that. That and to be a successful artist and you know, you can attest to this word, it takes more than just talent. So many things have to align. Like when you look at the greats, everything has to align. Like, how are they in their personal life? Like, how serious are they about their craft? How focused are they? How dedicated are they to their talent? A lot of the time you see guys with a lot of talent, but their personal lives, the thing, you know, their vices and things like that get in the way and you know, it kind of interferes with their. With their success. But to me, Kodak Black is, you know, he's. His talent level is insane.

[Rory]

Yeah. And he was like.

[NRM Mall]

To listen to a lot of his early. And I found out because, you know, I was kind of. I wasn't late to Kodak, but I was later than some people, like most people were. And. And listening to a lot of his. When I started finding out he was 18, 19, doing those type of records. No features, verses and hooks and melodies. 18, 19 years old. That's not. You don't see that much in rap. Yeah, where dude is doing his entire project. No features or a lot of his biggest records, no features. He's doing the verses and the Hooks coming up with the melodies. He's writing all his own. The thing, his content, the he was saying in his bars, I'm, like, being 18, 19. Talking about the. Kodak was talking about. His talent level is insane. Again, Vice is getting in the way.

[Math Hoffa]

Of that a lot with a lot.

[NRM Mall]

Of these young guys. And unfortunately, that's what the story is for Kodak. It's his vices that get in the way of his talent. But Kodak Black's talent level is. I think he's better than 95% of these guys we just named.

[Rory]

Yeah. And to your point, too, with the superstar thing, like, there's also the intangibles. Like, you can check every single box, but it's going to sound corny. Sometimes the universe and timing just has to exist. Like, things that you can't control whatsoever need to fucking time up.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Because I've seen people check every box, and I'm like, how the fuck did this not work? It's like, oh, the timing of where music was, what was going on. You just not catching what happened. One month of one year can change literally everything as far as what a rollout is. But I don't know. I. I still think Baby Keem's gonna come back and save hip hop.

[NRM Mall]

All right, do we have voicemails?

[Rory]

Yeah, yo, voicemails. 20 minutes.

[NRM Mall]

I'm just saying. All right, that's where you want to take who.

[Rory]

I mean, I thought Keem had a potential on the first joint. I didn't think it was, like, a classic, but I didn't think it was bad. It showed potential. I just think you need to have, like, some more output with just some potential. Like, if you put out, like, a classic out the gate, like a channel orange. Yeah. You're given some grace for some years to kick it. But not Keem. Keem masterpiece ago.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah. I mean, in order to be in the conversation, you have to have music out.

[Rory]

But if. If you talk to the Internet and had the same conversation, Keem's name would be brought up. As far as, like, who people think the next guys would be, he would. Okay, I'm not saying you have to agree, but Keem's name comes up often where I'm, like, off one project.

[NRM Mall]

I mean, I love when people tell me, like, name guys. Like, yeah, Naheed. Because then the first thing I do is, like, all right, send me. Let me hear it. Like, send me his shit. Let me go, you know? Cause sometimes I'm not always in tune with a lot of these dudes that people Think is dope. And I listen and I'm just like, all right, let me take off my illmatic ears.

[Rory]

Oh, for sure.

[NRM Mall]

Let me take off my Reasonable Doubt ears. Let me take off my Ready to Die.

[Rory]

I'll do that out the gate.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, like, let me take these ears off. Let me just put some ear muffs on and just listen to this and see what these guys are doing. But yeah, man, I don't know, man. I'm kind of nervous for the future of rap and hip hop. I'm gonna be honest. Like, after. After Berg said that yesterday, I got to thinking last night and I'm just like, damn. Like, it's.

[Baby D]

Nobody knows what to do. Like, no one knows where to take hip hop to evolve it. It's not charting the way it once used to. It's not as. It's still. Obviously still the culture, but it's not as commercial as it once was. No one knows where to take it next.

[NRM Mall]

Like, look at, for example, this year, the albums and the artists we raving about is guys that's been in it 30 plus years. The clips, Mobb Deep, fucking Nas. We ain't on Nas joints.

[Math Hoffa]

Like, we.

[NRM Mall]

We talking about guys that have Gibbs.

[Rory]

Got 12, 13 Gibbs. Like, these guys has over 15 years in.

[NRM Mall]

These are guys that have been almost 20. Yeah, it's like these are the elder. The elder statesman. These are guys that have been doing it. So when they're still currently putting out the best music and the best albums in rap and in hip hop, I mean, that. That says a lot.

[Rory]

Even Chance is a veteran at this point.

[NRM Mall]

Chance is a veteran, so you can't even put him in that. Under 30. Because how old is Chance?

[Rory]

Probably around my. Probably 34. Maybe he's like a year younger than me. 32. Okay.

[NRM Mall]

Chance is 32. Oh, okay.

[Rory]

Much younger than I thought.

[NRM Mall]

So, yeah, put Chance in that cat to put him in that conversation.

[Rory]

Jid for sure.

[NRM Mall]

He had one of the best rap albums this year.

[Rory]

Same with Jid. I put Jid there as well.

[Total Wireless Announcer]

I.

[Rory]

But even Jiz been around for a.

[NRM Mall]

While at this point, and Jit is 34, so he's like right there on that.

[Rory]

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's kind of wild. I mean.

[Baby D]

Well, I'm swole if we're talking.

[NRM Mall]

Well, he'll be 35 next week, so Jit will be 35 next week, so now we can't even really.

[Rory]

I thought Jid was not even younger.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, his birthday's Halloween, so he'll be 35, so it's like you can't even.

[Rory]

You know, people that rap like this and make this type of music, it takes longer. Yeah, like, it definitely. It's almost like not a thing anymore too. So this type of shit is like almost where like stand up comedy has gotten. Where it's like guys don't really break until they're 40.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Because even like Gibbs finally getting his. Just doing the last few years. But like Gibbs is making elite music for 15 years. Yeah, but it just, it's that type of rap has now gotten to that place. But shit. How old was Westside gun?

[Baby D]

Probably 30, 40 something.

[Rory]

I was thinking like 38 gun, 43 years old.

[Math Hoffa]

Jesus.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, man.

[Rory]

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think that's great, but it just takes longer with that.

[NRM Mall]

And it's from. You talking about guys from my era, it was a different attention to detail, different respect for the art of it all. So these are guys that came up having to check certain boxes in order to be considered dope. You know what I mean? It wasn't like, oh, just get a record out of your basement, post it on, you know, Tick Tock, and it goes viral. And now you doing shows next month and it's like, no, these are guys that really put in work and grinded for years and traveled and had to do things like. But it shows because they paid attention to detail and have certain skill sets that you had to have at one point.

[Rory]

Yeah, man. Ice, Spice, Bronx legend. You know, we love a Chanelli.

[Baby D]

Yeah, y' all was leaving women out of this conversation. I guess you're like, no, but we're talking about men. But like, but we're talking about rap because the women been putting out good, solid albums.

[Rory]

But oh, no, no, the point and running rap. No what Berg. How we got into that conversation was because Berg was saying, women. You can name the five women out the gate without even thinking about it.

[Baby D]

Oh, okay.

[Rory]

So then that's why he was like, well, what about the guys is trash right now.

[Baby D]

Oh, okay.

[NRM Mall]

But no, the women are receiving. He said the woman. That's how we got into that. The women are clearly running rap right now.

[Rory]

And I mean, would I spice drop today? Like, it just furthers his. His point. Bronx legend, you ain't even get the Destiny's Child B. Kelly flip. You didn't even. I guess she went way over your head.

[NRM Mall]

That's what's up.

[Baby D]

They got to buy me a Kelly.

[Rory]

You ain't even know the song was going to be called Baddy Baddy did you?

[NRM Mall]

No, I didn't.

[Rory]

You were shocked this morning. Like damn, she took it there. All right, let me show we have a guest coming on. We've been talking with this guy for a while how to figure out when to go on his show or him to come on our show. Clearly having bag fuel on is what sparked the entire thing, but math is our guy so we're gonna take a quick commercial break as per peej and when we come back we will have the math interview.

[NRM Mall]

Hit it Peach New Warrior Mouse Ma.

[Rory]

I know you are thinking about upgrading to the all new iPhone 17 Pro. You constantly are talking about it because it's designed to be the most powerful iPhone ever, which is again, something you always tell us. But are you also thinking about the traffic on your way to the store or transferring all the money bag data that you have in that phone? Well, good news for you, Maul. When you order a new phone online with Boost Mobile, they'll send an expert to your home or work to deliver your brand new iPhone 17 Pro and get you set up on Boost Mobile within minutes.

[NRM Mall]

No hassle.

[Rory]

No hassle.

[NRM Mall]

Visit boostmobile.com to get started. Delivery available for select devices [e-mail] terms apply.

[Rory]

This is an ad by BetterHelp. October 10th is World Mental Health Day. And this year I think we should take the time and focus our attention on thanking our therapists, the people that we dump all of our problems on every day that just have to go out in the world and digest all the nonsense and insane things that we say to them. We need to say thank you to the therapist, check up on your strong friend. I'm sure it takes a toll on them as well. This year, Better Help is shining the spotlight on therapists, people who truly make the world a better place. If something keeps you up at night, just go get a therapist, dump that problem on them, and then we'll celebrate them on the 10th. BetterHelp therapists work accordingly to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US with over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an average rate of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. The World Mental Health Day. Let's celebrate the therapists who've helped millions of people take a step forward. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com rorymol that's betterhelp.com rorymol forget whatever plans you have this weekend because you're staying at home and playing on Spin Quest. And there's never been a better time to sign up than right now. New users get $30 coin packs for just $10. All the table games you love with hundreds of slot games and real cash Prizes. That's at spinquest.com S-P-I-N Q U-E S-T.com.

[Math Hoffa]

Spinquest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

[Ed Helms]

Hey everyone, Ed Helms here and hi.

[NRM Mall]

I'm Kalpen and we' the hosts of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

[Ed Helms]

This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Jenny Garth, host of the iHeart podcast. I choose me to discuss the new Audible adaptation of the timeless Jane Austen classic Pride and Prejudice. This is not a trick question. There's no wrong answer. What role would I play?

[Cindy Crawford]

You know what? I can see you as Mr. Darcy. You got a little call in Firth.

[Ed Helms]

Okay, that's really sweet. I appreciate that. But are you sure I'm not the dad? I'm not Mr. Bennett.

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Here.

[Ed Helms]

Listen to Earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Math Hoffa]

Clutch.

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[NRM Mall]

We are. We are joined by. Well, his. He's. He said it. I didn't say it. The best rapper podcaster in the world, Matt Hofford, is in the building. So, Matt, we had. We had. So first of all, we have been talking about us coming on your platform. You coming on our platform for a while.

[Math Hoffa]

Right.

[NRM Mall]

But in particular, we had. We had bag feeling, shout out to our guys. Bag Fuel. That's on Heineken.

[Math Hoffa]

We had to start like that.

[NRM Mall]

No, I'm just trying to tell as well.

[Rory]

He really want to tell us.

[NRM Mall]

No, no, because I'm trying. I'm trying to. I'm trying to lead up to how the conversation of you calling me and then it's like, no, no, no, no.

[Math Hoffa]

Please don't say that.

[NRM Mall]

I'm not. I wouldn't say that.

[Math Hoffa]

Pleasant surprise.

[NRM Mall]

Okay.

[Degree Cool Rush Announcer]

All right.

[NRM Mall]

I wouldn't say what.

[Rory]

You said he happened to be in the neighborhood.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, yeah, but. But in that conversation, you called me after that episode came today.

[Baby D]

Shit.

[Rory]

Just be chilling.

[Math Hoffa]

You call somebody watching the door downstairs.

[NRM Mall]

Yo, this nigga.

[Rory]

We wanted to do this episode for.

[NRM Mall]

Peace, but I'm happy that Math is finally here so we could talk our shit. But we was talking about you sending us music, some of your music to review and talk about, and how you. We jokingly said don't copyright us once we put it up on YouTube. And you were saying how you don't understand how rappers don't allow people to react to their music and post videos.

[Math Hoffa]

Right. Because it. Okay. As a fan. Right. You know, we grew up listening to a lot of rappers that are still dropping music.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

And it. It just bewilders me that, like, yo, it's 2025. There's not many platforms that will promote y' all music anymore.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

Right. It's not being played on radio. Like, I can't remember the last. I. I'm. I don't think I've heard anything past King's disease 2 from NAS on the radio at all.

[NRM Mall]

On radio.

[Rory]

Okay.

[NRM Mall]

Got you. Gotcha. Okay.

[Math Hoffa]

You know what I mean? So. And you know, they. Some of them don't do that many interviews, especially Nas.

[NRM Mall]

He ain't doing a lot of interviews.

[Math Hoffa]

Right. And lyricism, to me is something that needs to continue. So if we have like a new audience or audience that follows us, that may be like 24 or 2018 to. To 30 or whatever, they're not necessarily familiar with their music as much as, you know, other people we may interview.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

So to expose it to them. We don't get the chance to. Because we getting hit with copyrights. Yeah.

[NRM Mall]

Right.

[Math Hoffa]

Like Ghost drop this project. I wanted to review it. So turn it as soon as I uploaded the video.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

Copyrights. And I'm like, damn, why haven't they figured out to not, you know, hit.

[NRM Mall]

Allow it.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah, to allow it. Like when Kendrick did that. That was genius. During the battle.

[Rory]

Yeah, for sure.

[Math Hoffa]

And he allowed the. The reactors to. To share monetization. That was genius.

[Rory]

I mean, well, there's two steps to that because you can just white label it where people won't get their video taken down and then the second step, which is the monetize shit. But as far as that first step, if you're an independent artist, I have no idea why you wouldn't white label all of your music.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

The majors. That's a way deeper conversation. Like during COVID remember we was just doing like IG Live jam sessions playing music and then they shut all that shit down. I was like, these majors are stepping over a dollar to get a penny. Like, we're promoting music. Like, yeah, you're not losing money by us doing these jam sessions. It's a bunch of people in here going, oh, I don't even know this song. What is this?

[NRM Mall]

Right?

[Rory]

Just so you could keep a fucking.001 penny from IG Live.

[Math Hoffa]

Like, makes no sense.

[Rory]

I've never.

[Math Hoffa]

There should be somebody in that's on staff at these labels. Because it's not. It's not just majors. Like, you know, some of just the distributors, they don't. They don't even check to see, like, who's doing this shit.

[NRM Mall]

Right.

[Math Hoffa]

Oh, this could be a million more streams. But what are you doing?

[Baby D]

Right?

[Math Hoffa]

It's just crazy.

[NRM Mall]

So you had. Because we. We haven't really kicked it in years, but you had to pin.

[Math Hoffa]

Never really kicked it, man.

[NRM Mall]

Well, I mean. Well, we never really.

[Math Hoffa]

We ain't going to be fake.

[NRM Mall]

No, no, no. I' we kick not Saying we kick.

[Rory]

I've never met Matt.

[Math Hoffa]

No, I'm comfortable.

[NRM Mall]

I've never met at all.

[Rory]

I've tweeted about Mass Podcast since the inception of how much I like it. We never. I think we DM'd each other.

[Math Hoffa]

You didn't like me for a second. I remember that.

[Rory]

Oh, please, give me the history lesson on this one.

[Math Hoffa]

Both of y'. All. Both of y'. All.

[Rory]

Oh, I can find. I can find the tweet.

[NRM Mall]

No, no, hold now. Math talking, cuz. Me and Math go back to when he was doing Total Slaughter and we was in that brownstone in Brooklyn and you was battling all them for a bed. Me and you. I was.

[Math Hoffa]

Battled nobody for a bed.

[NRM Mall]

Listen, I was one of the few that was really with you in the house. Like, yo. You was like, yo, these niggas in here is corny. I was sitting there.

[Math Hoffa]

Right or wrong, first of all, which is illegal, because you had my own bedroom. And it was.

[NRM Mall]

Why they give you your bedroom? Why they gave you your own bedroom? Because you was in there trying to bully. You was in there trying to bully. You wasn't with.

[Math Hoffa]

Nobody gave me my own bedroom. Bedroom.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

I was the only one in the house that had his own bedroom from the rip. So I was good.

[NRM Mall]

And then.

[Rory]

And then what they did with Rex was up, like, episode one that was foul on Total Slaughter.

[NRM Mall]

He had the battle, and he was in the basement. I think that was in the Cortez. Yeah.

[Rory]

And. And Rex knew what time it was, so he came with a verse that he had written in Rehearse.

[NRM Mall]

What the.

[Math Hoffa]

He knew who he was gonna pick. Yeah, that. That show totally depicted battle rap in the wrong way.

[NRM Mall]

I feel like y' all all felt like that, like, going, what we doing? Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

Nobody knew it was even real until the week of.

[NRM Mall]

Okay.

[Math Hoffa]

We were getting phone calls. Like, this shit real.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

Okay. Yo, they sent the money. We got be there on Monday.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

All right.

[NRM Mall]

It was a cool experience.

[Rory]

Yeah, the idea was cool. I just think they maybe rushed the execution of it.

[Math Hoffa]

It wasn't a cool idea for battle rap because it's like, you put a bunch of battle rappers in the house, what the fuck is you. That's not what we do, bro. Like, we.

[NRM Mall]

Well, you know, they was going off of the whole. Make the. Making the band energy, trying to, like, reignite that whole wave of reality tv.

[Math Hoffa]

So wash out. Yeah, so wash out. If there's gonna be any type of drama in battle rap, that's reality. Let that happen in the streets.

[NRM Mall]

Let it happen for Real.

[Math Hoffa]

You know what I mean? We ain't arguing in the kitchen over pancakes. You know what I mean?

[Rory]

We got a great battle. Cause it was Kayshawn. And what was the battle? Okay. It was like, bts, it wasn't even on the show. They was arguing, the kids, for, like, 30 minutes.

[Math Hoffa]

Right. But they didn't battle. They popped and they battled later.

[Rory]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. We gotta battle later.

[Math Hoffa]

Smack made the money off of that.

[Rory]

Yeah. I respect it.

[NRM Mall]

As he should.

[Math Hoffa]

The. The battles that y' all got. Can I say his name? Can I say.

[Rory]

Sure.

[Math Hoffa]

Joe versus Hollow Trash.

[Rory]

I thought it was underwhelming from both of them.

[Math Hoffa]

First of all, you don't battle holding a mic like this.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

Hey, yo, my check. One, two. Yo, yo, I'm gonna need you guys to cut to quiet down, or I'm not gonna rap. I'm gonna walk off this. You don't do that to.

[NRM Mall]

Don't forget how that went. I forgot how that.

[Math Hoffa]

Do not tempt the battle crowd. If you say, I have. Y' all don't be quiet. I'm not spitting. These raps would be boo. Get the. Yeah.

[Rory]

That crowd is now in a crazy.

[NRM Mall]

That was that Daylight that did some crazy at that one.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah.

[Rory]

In a costume.

[Math Hoffa]

Oh. There's a whole story behind that. I actually saved. You saved that event from being shut down early.

[NRM Mall]

For real.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah. Cause I think I battled disaster the week before.

[NRM Mall]

Huh?

[Math Hoffa]

And all that shit went down with, you know me out there thumping with six niggas.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

And the week after, Daylight was supposed to be in New York for total slaughter.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

So a lot of people that was around me was not happy with what happened. Okay. You know what I mean?

[NRM Mall]

Okay.

[Math Hoffa]

So despite me saying, chill, chill. Well, I ain't gonna say. I said I ain't say chill. I just didn't say nothing. Right. When Daylight went up there to battle in the Spawn outfit, that's what it was.

[NRM Mall]

Okay?

[Math Hoffa]

He was supposed to light himself on fire, shout out to Hands. He's recovering from sticks.

[Rory]

The fire marshal.

[Math Hoffa]

Shout out, my man Hands. He's recovering from stage four cancer. Hands saw Daylight's homeboy and said, yo, what happened to Cali? And the nigga was like, yo, I had nothing to do with that. And he ran through the back door. He had the lighter fluid and the light. So Daylight had to improvise and, like, rip some of his clothes off and just fall on the floor. But he was gonna light himself on fire, bro. I should have let him do it. We should have let him do it.

[Rory]

I don't know if there'll be a Hammer Ballroom anyway. No, I think he saved a lot of people's lives.

[NRM Mall]

Should have let him do it.

[Rory]

The fire marshal is crazy.

[NRM Mall]

Look at what.

[Rory]

Look at what?

[Math Hoffa]

Mad stop.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, we should have let him do it. Look it back. We should have let that do it.

[Math Hoffa]

Smokey the Battle Rapper, you heard.

[Rory]

Did anyone like what? All right, he had the lighter fluid. Was there a fire extinguisher in sight at all?

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, like, I don't. I just don't understand back.

[Math Hoffa]

Back in those days. I don't think. I don'. He ain't.

[NRM Mall]

He ain't think that far. Daylight didn't think.

[Rory]

He talk to the pyro expert about that.

[NRM Mall]

What's your ask?

[Rory]

What? What? His. Why he thinks we didn't like him. We still never got to that.

[NRM Mall]

Mav talking.

[Math Hoffa]

I. I'm not talking.

[NRM Mall]

You think I don't with you? You think I don't like you?

[Math Hoffa]

Yo, I've been waiting on a date for y' all to come on the pod for 17. 17 years, bro.

[NRM Mall]

No, I know you.

[Math Hoffa]

17 years.

[NRM Mall]

No, you have not.

[Math Hoffa]

17 years, bro.

[NRM Mall]

No,. You have not. Man, this talking.

[Rory]

Every time I talk to Mecca, I say, said, we're ready when y' all are. And I talk to Mecca pretty often. And this was back before he was on the show. And that's my man's.

[NRM Mall]

You're not a day like.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah, but. All right, okay.

[NRM Mall]

That's like a personal friend of his.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

I'm saying, like, talking to me would have made it happen fair, you know.

[Rory]

But I mean, I would run into somebody from the show more often, so I was always like, yo, me more happy to come up there. We probably supported it on social media, on our pod. That's where I'm like, we ain't fuck with you. It's crazy. We was championing this shit before pop.

[Math Hoffa]

Y' all for what happened with, you know, these guys.

[NRM Mall]

Why you blamed us?

[Math Hoffa]

Because I felt like people saw what y' all did and felt like we could recreate that.

[NRM Mall]

Oh, that's what they felt like on your platform, right? Yeah, but it was different with us, though.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah, totally different.

[NRM Mall]

Business. The business was.

[Math Hoffa]

They didn't see it. Okay. Yeah. You dig what I'm saying? Totally different. Like, y' all situation is, like, y' all started as friends, right? Like, you know what I'm saying? Y' all started together and.

[NRM Mall]

No, not only that, but just the business side of it was totally different as well.

[Math Hoffa]

Right. By the time These guys got on the platform, they was like the third cast, you know what I'm saying? It was only there for nine months and the show was already three years old. Right. So.

[Rory]

But I mean, do you feel like they contributed in that time, though, in a positive way?

[Math Hoffa]

Definitely. I feel like everybody was to, to the most part, everybody was doing what they were supposed to be doing until they wasn't. And you know, that sometimes works out. Sometimes don't work out for me. I got, I got trust issues, you know, I mean, you talking to somebody that got jumped in high school. And when I went back to take the state test, I saw my cousin hanging with the. That jumped me. So, like. And this is still a cousin that I got locked up later on, later on for because he got stabbed. When we was fighting some, some blood over beating up a homeless. Okay, so we saw some blood beating up a homeless. We intervened. My cousin Wild Thorn up. So it's on and popping, you know, Eastern Parkway in Utica. One of these guys tried to stab me. My cousin stepped in. The way he took the, the jug. I didn't know till we got back to the crib. And he lifted his shirt and I seen the blood pouring out. And every time he took a breath, it would bubble.

[Rory]

Oh.

[Math Hoffa]

Now being that this is, this is the same cousin that, you know, back in the days did whatever. I still took my ass to where them niggas was at by myself with nothing but a bottle. Cops thought I had a gun. And I ran down on a whole set and cops popped up, freeze. Drop the gun. I have a gun. I had a bottle that I broke and a T shirt. So for me, loyalty is something.

[NRM Mall]

It's different serious for you.

[Math Hoffa]

It's serious for me. And when you start to play with that or you start to do things that I don't understand, like it takes me to someplace where it's like, yo, okay, I'm not, I'm not going through this with you because you're not blood, you're not family, you know? You know what I mean?

[NRM Mall]

Right?

[Math Hoffa]

I' ma just clip this, right? Man, if you ain't man enough to explain yourself, that's what it is. Like, so in that situation, I just felt like was doing some weird at the wrong time.

[NRM Mall]

But weird in regards to what, though?

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah.

[Rory]

What did you feel was disloyal?

[Math Hoffa]

Okay, Funk Master Flex issues me a challenge. I'm like, yes. I get to music. I'm surrounded by so called music guys, right? We go to the studio, everybody's giving me like, Opposite advice from what I feel.

[NRM Mall]

Okay.

[Math Hoffa]

I believe in myself. So I said, you know what? I like this record. I'm gonna send this record. Sent the record. New York City. This is what New York sounds like.

[NRM Mall]

I see you, my brother.

[Math Hoffa]

One of the proudest moments in my life might not mean shit to other people, right?

[Rory]

But growing up in New York, young Master Flex Drop.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rory]

It's monumental.

[Math Hoffa]

And then after that, a taps me and say, yo, give me 5,000. I could get Clue to play it.

[NRM Mall]

Wait, who said that?

[Rory]

Well, also, that's illegal, so that's alleged.

[NRM Mall]

Oh, okay.

[Math Hoffa]

Then I see Clue in the club. He don't know nothing about it.

[NRM Mall]

Oh.

[Math Hoffa]

I'm like, strike one.

[NRM Mall]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Math Hoffa]

Strike one.

[NRM Mall]

Gotcha.

[Rory]

We.

[Math Hoffa]

You know, the show started like. Like, the numbers started picking up. Crazy. We had a. No, I'll save that at strike three. So I'm like, yo, let's see if we get a situation. Yo, my man, we plugged in at Revolt. It's that third. Ah, let's go have a lunch. Me, Sit down. Yo, it's my brother, Math, and you know this. Then I'm like, all right, cool. All right, all right. It's your brother. All right, all right. My man introduced me to Jay Reed.

[NRM Mall]

If y' all don't know who Jay Reed is, that's hilarious. Y' all know who J. Reed is?

[Math Hoffa]

So Jay Reed sends me what's supposed to be a Revolt contract, okay? I'm looking at the numbers. I'm like, this shit don't make no sense. Like, we doing better than this right now. Like, why? Right?

[Rory]

This is what, like, 2021?

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah, like 20. 20, 20. No, 2020.

[Rory]

Maybe.

[Math Hoffa]

Whatever. Whatever year they left, it was, like, two, three years ago. Yeah, they've been going, like, three years now. Crazy. Anyway, so I'm looking at the contract. I'm like, what the is. This don't make no sense. Call them like, yo, first of all, they tried to manage me. I'm like, y' all ever manage a podcast before? Never. Right? Okay. So why y' all trying to manage the. All right, whatever. And I'm like, yo, son, this. This seemed wacky. So shout out to my man Smitty, run the city. Smitty, CEO Smitty. I talked to him about it. He was like, yo, you trying to. You trying to get the puff? They go, hold on. Get me on the phone. We talk. Send me the dm. I got his number. He's on the line. He's like, yo, Dion, whatever they want, just figure it out. Let's make it happen. So I'm like, all right, cool.

[NRM Mall]

This is DMing puff, right? Okay.

[Math Hoffa]

So Puff plugs me in with Dion. Shout out to Dion. Great dude. He gave me some great advice. I didn't listen to it that year. Don't worry, my nigga. We gonna make it right, Right? So I say, yo, I got a contract from y' all from before, from da da, da, da da. He says, I don't know who the fuck that is. Stop talking to them. Immediately, Puff says this. So I'm like, oh.

[NRM Mall]

And it was supposed to be a Revolt contract that you were looking at.

[Math Hoffa]

Oh, Strike two. Strike two. Okay, third strike.

[Rory]

Sorry to cut you off. Did you speak to them about that after, though? Like, after.

[Math Hoffa]

Yes.

[Rory]

You got that?

[Math Hoffa]

And it's always, man, I don't know what they doing, man. I don't know what they doing. But we'll do the math on that later. So third strike. Bag Fuel was supposed to. And I don't even like talking about this, but, you know, let me explain. Bag Fuel was a show that they stopped. I'm like, yo, let's focus on this shit. Me and homie had a falling out, and Heineken talked me into bringing them back. Energy was still kind of off. So one day, trying to get in contact with them to shoot an episode, because you know how it be. Sometimes somebody come in town and they'd be like, yo, I got. From this time to this time.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

And you like, yo, the team. Can we get. Look, can we make this happen?

[NRM Mall]

Last minute audible. Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

So I'm getting to the point where I'm calling. Three niggas ain't picking up. I'm like, yo, we y' all at. We trying to get the. They're not picking up. I ain't saying nothing. Then I seen a clip of Bag Fuel, the show that was supposed to be stopped, go up. I call Heineken. I'm like, yo, this a brand new clip. Yeah, it was Esso's idea. I'm like, all right. So I'm negotiating with Revolt, damn near begging Puff and Dion for more bread so everybody could be situated. And y' all doing this. So for me, it's like, I don't understand it. Yeah, I didn't understand it. And maybe I didn't have the. The communication skills at the time to, like, sit down and say, like, I don't understand this. Explain it to me.

[Rory]

Okay?

[Math Hoffa]

But I never got a call. Nobody ever hit me up to say, yo, this is what happened. I just cut ties I cut ties because I just felt like, yo, bro, I'm. I. I can't trust this situation.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

So you.

[NRM Mall]

Based on the previous things that was happening, you finding out that. That contract, nobody from that side ever even heard of that and was like, so that was the final straw for you, Right? Okay.

[Math Hoffa]

And to be honest, like, doing homework, we talking about somebody. Somebody almost lost their life doing shit like that. I don't gotta say no names. They know who it is. But doing shit like that, you already almost died before. What he doing, right? What he doing? Make it make sense. So for me, it just. It just felt like before I lock in with these guys in a contract where I have to deal with, I'm gonna just cut.

[NRM Mall]

Okay. I mean, well, I like the fact that you took some accountability and saying maybe your communication, you know, you could have done something different, but you were already kind of like, feeling some way because things were happening. And then that was another move that you kind of felt like, oh, y' all are doing funny shit while I'm over here trying to make sure we all good. So let me just. Before we lock in the contract, and then now we contractually have to be around each other, have to do this show together.

[Math Hoffa]

Let me just cut ties.

[NRM Mall]

Okay?

[Math Hoffa]

Cut ties. Cause.

[NRM Mall]

But where does mech falling in all of that? Because when he was here, he kind of felt like he was like, yo, he showed up one day, the lights was off in the shop. He didn't know what was going on. He was like, yo, I just would show up whenever they told me to show up. Like, mech stance was really, like, y' all was just there to work. I didn't really know nothing about the business side of it. Whenever Mav would say, yo, pull up, pull up. I pulled up.

[Rory]

He said, what the public knows is what he knew.

[Math Hoffa]

I kind of rather not speak on Mecca because we haven't spoken in, like, nine months.

[NRM Mall]

But why not? Why you ain't just reach out and just have a conversation?

[Math Hoffa]

It's not. It's not by my doing.

[NRM Mall]

Okay.

[Math Hoffa]

You dig? So, and again, for me, just certain signs. Like, I come from a lifestyle where hanging around, hanging around people that hang around other people could mean your life.

[NRM Mall]

Absolutely.

[Math Hoffa]

So when I see certain things, like certain engagements, it just. It takes me back to times where I'm like, I trusted this, and I walked in, set me up right. You know what I mean? And maybe that's something I need to work on, because, like, this ain't the streets. This ain't. Yeah, but.

[NRM Mall]

But.

[Math Hoffa]

But you know what I mean?

[NRM Mall]

Some of the same from where we from. No math.

[Rory]

That's called trauma, Right?

[NRM Mall]

It's called trauma. And. And you still have a lot of trauma. You still holding in a lot of trauma from, you know, growing up in a certain environment, going through certain things, which is, you know, unfortunately, a part of a lot of our lives. But like you said, this is something now. This is business, and this is, you know, you have to communicate differently. You have to handle conflict or what seems to be conflict differently, but that not just you, everybody. Everybody involved has to handle things differently and has to treat things like business. But certain things that you're saying, I totally understand now that I'm hearing this story. I understand where you're coming from now. Like, okay, you were looking at things and peeping certain moves and getting information from another side where it wasn't adding up to the information that people that are directly next to you are giving you.

[Math Hoffa]

Right?

[NRM Mall]

And now you're like, wait, hold up. That's not what y' all just told me. Like, now it's like, funny shit happening. They don't revolt. Never even heard of this thing.

[Math Hoffa]

Right? Who's taking accountability for this?

[NRM Mall]

Right?

[Math Hoffa]

Am I supposed to forget that this happened?

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

You know what I mean?

[Rory]

I mean, if. If MECH hit you tomorrow, would that be a conversation you would have at this point?

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah, I mean, I. I've been. I've reached out, but, you know, every. Everybody has their own trauma. That's what I'm realizing. So whatever. His reasons for not speaking to me are. Okay, all right, cool. If I reach out and you choose, like, it's not time for you yet. All right. It's not too respected.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

You know what I mean? But for me, I just need people to understand how my mind works and how I interpret certain moves. And it's like, how it affects me. Like, I feel like you look at somebody like 50 Cent, loyalty for him must be a really serious thing, because it. At some point, it meant life or death.

[NRM Mall]

100.

[Math Hoffa]

I kind of see things the same way. And I realized, like, throughout the years, I've been moving like that. Like, even in battle rap, you doing what you hanging with who? I ain't with them niggas. You know what I mean? So I hope, you know, if niggas is watching this, I just hope they understand that side of me. You dig what I'm saying?

[NRM Mall]

Yeah. I mean, I get it. And, you know, you breaking it down like that, it definitely gives me some clarity on the whole situation. And talking to, you know, bag fuel, like, hearing their side of it and then now hearing your side, like, I get it. It does seem like it literally was miscommunication based off of personal feelings and trauma that causes you to kind of like, isolate and be like, I'm cutting that off. I'm not dealing with that. I'm not going down that road because I know where that could lead if it's funny happening, and I don't want it to go there.

[Math Hoffa]

Right.

[NRM Mall]

So you just rather just it. I'm not with nobody.

[Math Hoffa]

This is weird. Yeah, you're doing weird shit. You're doing sneaky, and you can't get with it. Yeah, no, I put it on the table, bro. If you feel this way, you know what I'm saying?

[NRM Mall]

Let's be men about it.

[Math Hoffa]

Let's be men about it. If it's the money, ask me for a raise. That never happened, right? That never happened. So how is it the money? It's not the money.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

I sat across from them at Angela Yee's, and I was like, yo, y' all said something about the money. Da, da, da, da, da. And the first thing that came out was, it was never about the money. I thought we was friends. If we friends, then what's up with this?

[NRM Mall]

Right?

[Math Hoffa]

Right.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

That's not friendly. You know what I'm saying?

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, yeah. Now, I'm not gonna lie. You was definitely, you know, when you started your podcast, you know, based off of just your history and battle rap, for you to have the success that you had in podcasting, it was dope to see. Cause I'm like, you know, Matthew, you had the moniker of, he's the bully of battle rap. He gonna come in. He might fuck the event up. This, that, and third. But then seeing my expert opinion and the way you were on there and the way you carried yourself, the way you were having conversations, the people that you had on, it was a whole different side of you that I think that battle rap fans that found YouTube got to see. They never knew that you had that side of you. Of, like, okay, math, could sit down and not the room up and have a healthy conversation.

[Math Hoffa]

Like I said, I think people misunderst. You know, you see something from afar, you don't know what it is. Yeah, you're close to it now. It's up close and personal right now. It's just not me versus your favorite battle rapper. You gotta cheer against me. It's me sitting across from your favorite rapper. Right. We're having a conversation. So you get to see a different side. It's not really a bully Persona. I'm a protector. One of my earliest memories is me trying to fight a dude off my mom because he was trying to rape her. You dig what I'm saying? Up until the last time I even had to get active on anybody. So a female out with me with my girl and some guys touching her inappropriately, that could go wrong.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

You know what I'm saying? Oh, you got the podcast. You shouldn't be out in the streets doing this. But I'm a protector, and I've always felt like I'm not gonna allow anybody to do nothing. I'm not gonna allow any give, give space or make be do funny to harm anybody. Right. Right. So I don't know. I don't know if you understand it. You understand it.

[NRM Mall]

A lot of this that you we talking about, I had no idea. But it's giving me a lot of clarity on a lot of things. But I do like the fact that you recognize, because that's a big part of it.

[Rory]

And when did you start to recognize that, that.

[NRM Mall]

That it is trauma?

[Math Hoffa]

Just looking back, because it's. It's a reoccurring thing that happened in my life. Reoccurring where it'll be me and a group of people, and then it'd be me by myself. It'd be me and a group of people, and it'd be me by myself. And just looking back, like, how did I judge this? How do other people judge this? Okay. They don't understand that I see it this way. The only people that understand that is that, that, that been through certain. Like, nah, I don't with that. Like, the street around me is like, nah, the man.

[Walmart Express Delivery Announcer]

Yeah.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

And I'm like, yo, but. And this. I guess this is. This is something different. But in a way it's not. Because the same way that I could be open about certain. I feel like other people should be too.

[NRM Mall]

Right. Right. Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

Right. So if I'm reaching out to you, you got a problem, let's talk about it.

[NRM Mall]

Right.

[Math Hoffa]

I shouldn't be sitting downstairs in quad for hours and you're not answering your phone. Dig what I'm saying?

[NRM Mall]

Yeah. Because with somebody like you now you. You start to thinking, yeah, now I'm like, mind starts going different places. Like, yo, what's.

[Math Hoffa]

What's happening?

[NRM Mall]

What's up? Yeah. Like now you're going into what's the plan? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

And, you know, it's just this year, and I gotta think. I gotta thank God I gotta thank God because that's, that's part of it. That's what gives you that, that understanding, that, that strength. Because going through stuff like that, you. You feel alone. You feel. You. You know what I mean? Not, not necessarily a victim, but you're like, damn, I gotta handle this or deal with this on my own. And this year has been a crazy year for me. Crazy year.

[NRM Mall]

Both personal and business.

[Math Hoffa]

Both personal and business. Like, health wise. I found out stuff about. Stuff about my health that requires urgent attention. You dig what I'm saying? Yeah. The end of last year, me and my wife. She ain't got a ring on. My wife, we lost a child. It was just a rough start.

[Rory]

Condolences.

[Math Hoffa]

The lights going out in the shop was just like, niggas, stop. It's just like God telling me, stop, stop. Look around, shit is falling apart. Stop. You thinking about this, you try to keep this going. Go take care of that. You know what I mean? So for everybody else, because I haven't been as vocal. Cause I'm not the type to go vent. So I don't trust people. You know what I mean? Even saying this shit right now, it's like I might ask y' all to delete something later.

[Rory]

Well, no, it's appreciated that you even sharing it.

[Math Hoffa]

You dig what I'm saying?

[Baby D]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

So I don't. I don't trust things. I don't vent. So. So they look at it like math just. He just on his own. Everybody deals with their own shit. That's what I'm realizing. Like whatever they was going through at the time, maybe.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe it was some rough shit.

[Math Hoffa]

They couldn't talk about it.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, yeah, that's a real way. That's a real way looking at it.

[Rory]

That's also what's kind of rough sometimes with this podcast and shit where you are so open about your life, but there's certain shit you want I gotta keep to myself. Y' all may not understand in the comments what the fuck I'm going through at the time. Everyone judgmental of every move you make. And it's like you don't even know what I'm dealing with on the other side in my life.

[NRM Mall]

Here's another.

[Rory]

Because you think I put everything out on a microphone. No, I don't. The shit that I'm going through that I would never fucking tell you about.

[NRM Mall]

Here's another layer to it all. And I do appreciate you, Math, for getting so vulnerable with us. But the very interesting thing about you Math is you come from A world where they'll weaponize your trauma against you.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah, definitely.

[NRM Mall]

In battle rap.

[Math Hoffa]

Definitely.

[NRM Mall]

They'll hear you say something to be like, what?

[Math Hoffa]

This episode is two rounds. This episode is two rounds.

[NRM Mall]

What you're saying is real shit though, right? This is two rounds, right?

[Math Hoffa]

This episode is two rounds.

[NRM Mall]

But the fact that you're at a place now in your life where you like, because like you just said, we all got our shit. Yeah, we all going through shit.

[Math Hoffa]

People watching right now, all going through. Somebody's like, yeah, I was there.

[NRM Mall]

And somebody is hearing this and saying, damn, Math is this dude that always got this Persona, but he dealing with real shit too. He going through real shit too. And you saying that that's God cutting the lights off. It's powerful, bro, because that's real. Like, yo, bro, relax, sit down, go handle this. This is more important. So I just appreciate you understanding that and, and you know, to know that you looking at it like that and that perspective is very healthy. You looking at it from a very, very healthy point of view. A very healthy perspective. And you have to, you have to, man, because listen, this is.

[Math Hoffa]

Otherwise, where do you, where the, do you end up?

[Rory]

What outlets are you using to process that type of stuff? I'm not saying publicly any like that. Like, how are you with everything that's going on, you've gone through this year?

[Math Hoffa]

I have, I have, I have some good mentorship. That's good, Some good mentorship. People that keep me level headed and people don't understand, like the episodes I've been doing, you might, they call them bucket hat, man. But Uncle Seth.

[Rory]

Okay, yeah, yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

Uncle Seth is like when I'm going through shit and he just. Yeah, listen, man, look, look, you doing it to yourself, man.

[NRM Mall]

Right?

[Math Hoffa]

You know what I mean?

[NRM Mall]

Like, right.

[Math Hoffa]

Why you even stressing about that, man?

[NRM Mall]

Right?

[Math Hoffa]

You don't. Don't forget that you did this and you did that and I sometimes need to hear that.

[NRM Mall]

How long have you had a relationship?

[Math Hoffa]

Me and Seth? About 12 years now.

[NRM Mall]

Oh, good. Yeah, like somebody you really know.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah.

[NRM Mall]

Okay.

[Math Hoffa]

So you know, my girl, my kids, you know, thank God for my daughters. Cause they.

[NRM Mall]

You a girl dad.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah, I'm a girl dad. What you talking about? You don't know that.

[NRM Mall]

I thought you don't have no sons.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah, I got two sons.

[NRM Mall]

Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. I thought you just had an old girl, right?

[Math Hoffa]

Nah, girl dad. Love my girls, man. Yeah, yeah.

[NRM Mall]

Again, protective.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah, Protective. Yeah. And let's worry about that too. Like.

[Rory]

Yeah, how do they do everything? Just Being on the Internet at all times, Pooty.

[Math Hoffa]

Pooty sees this shit. My other daughter, she don't go looking up my shit.

[NRM Mall]

Okay.

[Math Hoffa]

Pooty's like, she's the researcher talking about my dad. You know what I'm saying?

[NRM Mall]

Like, Pooty's a protector.

[Math Hoffa]

Yes. Pootie is the second me. Yeah. He's the second me. You know what I mean?

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

And I realized, like, my purpose at this point is making sure that they're good.

[NRM Mall]

Absolutely.

[Math Hoffa]

And that comes first and foremost.

[NRM Mall]

Absolutely.

[Math Hoffa]

Above everything. Well. Well, first I got to make sure I'm good. Because if I ain't good.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I can't race.

[NRM Mall]

Right.

[Math Hoffa]

But once I put myself back in that perspective, it's helped me. Like, okay, now I can. I'm going to the shop and I'm doing episodes because I know I gotta. This is the purpose. You know what I'm saying? Before, it was like, I kind of lost that. I kind of lost that, but I got it back.

[Rory]

At what point you felt like you lost it? You saying more the passion of even wanting to do the shit or.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah, yeah.

[NRM Mall]

You've had that talk of not wanting to do it, like, with yourself.

[Math Hoffa]

I honestly wanted to get to the point where other people could host the show.

[NRM Mall]

Okay.

[Math Hoffa]

And I just fade into the background because for me, it. It's years of stuff. But when we lost the kid, I was telling people, I was like, yo, I'm not mentally, I'm. I'm out of here.

[NRM Mall]

Absolutely not.

[Math Hoffa]

I'm wearing a fucking mask right now.

[NRM Mall]

Absolutely.

[Math Hoffa]

You know what I mean?

[Baby D]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

And I don't think they understood the depth of it. I think you would have to be a parent to understand what that feels like.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

So, yeah. So there's a lot of misunderstandings in between these situations. We can mend it and have a reunion episode. Great. But, you know, if it's at the point where, you know, you go your way, I go mine, I know I still have my purpose.

[NRM Mall]

Absolutely.

[Math Hoffa]

And whatever your purpose is, I hope you're living in that. And I wish dudes the best. Just don't use me anymore.

[NRM Mall]

Right.

[Math Hoffa]

You know what I mean?

[NRM Mall]

Yeah. Yeah. That makes total sense. That makes total sense.

[Rory]

I understand that. I mean, shit, with all that perspective and that hindsight, what's the direction of the show now? Because, you know, you've went through different casts. You've went through everything that you were going through.

[NRM Mall]

Personally, I love you got a lot of the battle rap guys on. Yeah, I love that.

[Rory]

Yeah. I think zip should be A reoccurring character on everything.

[Math Hoffa]

So.

[Rory]

Hell yeah. Zip is one of the greatest personalities. Hilarious. That's the pod to me, is you and Zip.

[NRM Mall]

You and Zip are the perf because y' all are like yin and yang. But, like, y' all are also so similar in a lot of ways.

[Rory]

And Zip's just a good dude, too.

[NRM Mall]

I think Zip is a star. I think.

[Rory]

Oh, Zip is definitely a star. Zip is a star.

[NRM Mall]

And I think that y' all can both help each other in ways that y' all not even. Y' all don't even recognize yet.

[Math Hoffa]

I mean, I would. I would love to. Matter of fact, I don't have a problem with helping Zip.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

You know, I mean, he texts me, he asked me about equipment and all that.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

And I'll tell him. Yeah, this is a. That said that I got pistol punched in the face and took my gun and I got pistol.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

You know what I'm saying?

[NRM Mall]

I love the fact that y' all was able to sit down.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah. That wasn't about nothing.

[NRM Mall]

You see what I'm saying? Like, I love that part of it. Like, once I saw y' all sitting down, I was like.

[Rory]

Like, I love this, which I will give Math credit. People do do that bully mentality with him. He battled dose again like, he. You've done a lot of redemption that I feel like people overlook, but it's not in that regard.

[Math Hoffa]

Did you know? Yeah. What's the best?

[Rory]

Not as a big of an. I feel like people make you out to be some.

[NRM Mall]

Definitely not. They're like, when I see. When I see.

[Rory]

Qualities, but, like, it's a redemption qualities here.

[NRM Mall]

But we forget that a lot of the time. The Internet, you know, and YouTube and things and social media comments. Like, a lot of these people really don't come from, you know, the place we come from.

[Math Hoffa]

Right.

[NRM Mall]

So somebody like me from where I'm from, and then where you from? Looking at you, I understand it. I get it. I'm like, n. I grew up with N like this. Like, I know Math is not a bad guy. Like, I tell people. I'm like, yo, Math ain't a bad guy. Math ain't gonna let you just do anything and just, you know, just fuck him over. And, you know, he ain't gonn that happen either.

[Math Hoffa]

See how adamant I was about to. Yo, you gonna give me a date when y' all coming on? Even.

[NRM Mall]

When. Even.

[Rory]

Even with that, I was wondering why we wasn't invited to the. What they call it? The slaughterhouse of podcasting.

[NRM Mall]

Oh, Potter House.

[Math Hoffa]

Like, Potter House.

[Rory]

Potter house.

[Math Hoffa]

I was like, I got cut out of it. I got cut out of it.

[NRM Mall]

But this is why math is funny. Because math would say like, I'm like, yo, Mav, we gonna do the show. Like, we definitely coming to do it. And I'm think if you know me, you know, if I say that, cuz I don't do interviews nowhere.

[Math Hoffa]

Right?

[NRM Mall]

So if I tell you I'm coming.

[Rory]

Interview with you, you know, for the last. I've said, anytime you ready, I'm ready.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[NRM Mall]

I'm like, we gonna do math. But Math, but because math don't know. And Math still thinking, again, it's industry shit. He like, but nigga win. So I'm like, this is what I'm saying. I'm like, yo, Math, I'm getting Queens.

[Math Hoffa]

Flipping Joe button flashbacks.

[NRM Mall]

Like, nah, nah, nah, what happened? Never, Never that.

[Math Hoffa]

What happened.

[NRM Mall]

We definitely. We definitely coming on to do your shit because.

[Math Hoffa]

Oh, we was homies.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, no, definitely. We definitely coming to do my expert opinion because again, we just. We fuck with what you doing. And I love the way you came back back bringing the battle rap guys on, having. I love the conversation you and Goods had.

[Rory]

Yeah, it was great.

[NRM Mall]

I love seeing y' all too. Talking. Have the conversation y' all had.

[Math Hoffa]

Part of the redemption thing.

[NRM Mall]

Absolutely. Let's explaining it. Yes, Having the conversation.

[Math Hoffa]

Explain. Let me explain.

[NRM Mall]

Right, right, right. And I think. I think you doing that, going that angle with it, especially with the guys that you don't went to wars with and have years of, you know, just back and forth. Let's sit down and have a conversation and let's just talk about it. Because we all older, we all men now, we all have families. We all trying to take care of our families or trying to protect our families and things like that. So seeing you have those conversations, I'm not gonna lie, I with that, man, that's like some super dope shit you're doing.

[Math Hoffa]

It's necessary. Absolutely it's necessary. I might not be the most knowledgeable person about the music industry or half of the topics that most podcasts talk about, but one thing I understand is that these conversations become an example. Yeah, sure.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

And if you watch me and you a Mav Hoffa fan and you've been following me for years and you see me do that, maybe it might influence you to do that in your own life.

[NRM Mall]

Exactly.

[Math Hoffa]

You know what I mean?

[NRM Mall]

Exactly.

[Math Hoffa]

So that's my contribution to my audience.

[Rory]

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I like that.

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[NRM Mall]

Penn, and we're the hosts of Irsay.

[Rory]

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Okay, that's really sweet. I appreciate that. But are you sure I'm not the dad? I'm not Mr. Bennett here. Listen to Irsay the Audible and I heard iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Rory]

Before we let you go, I had a lot of people hit me on a battle rap take we recently had. I think your your third round against Hollow is is top five probably of all time. And this was coming off the oh.

[NRM Mall]

We spoke about that years ago. We hustled.

[Rory]

Let me land it. Yeah, we were Talking about Hitman vs Movies in that third round from Hitman when he was bringing up the allegations and I was saying the difference between the response of how everyone looked at Hollow fucking crazy after that third round versus how nobody gave a fuck about the allegations about Mook was one of the wildest things I've seen in battle rap. And I'm a battle rap casual fan because I know that the Hardcore fans would kill me if they ever said, I'm a fan. I'm not like y'.

[Math Hoffa]

All.

[Rory]

I'm a casual fan. I love battle rap, but I'm not that deep into it.

[Math Hoffa]

Right.

[Rory]

But I have to give some push back and criticism of that fan base. Like, y' all didn't give a. About that third round. Everything Hollow did that you said was some foul ass. You smoked. That round from a creative, but to a fact level was crazy. Everyone was like, yo, Hollow's foul. As I didn't see one person say, I'm.

[Math Hoffa]

I'mma tell you why. All right? Right. Hollow's the difference between Hitman crafting around like that. Me crafting around like that is. Hollow's whole image was loyalty over Martin.

[Rory]

So Brain.

[Math Hoffa]

So if you're going to battle Hollow and you attack his loyalty, the fans are going to give you that. That's the point.

[NRM Mall]

Right?

[Math Hoffa]

Right. Murder Mook was never out here. Like, I'm the best husband.

[NRM Mall]

Easy. Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

You know what I'm saying?

[Rory]

I shouldn't laugh.

[Math Hoffa]

Phenomenal. Dad wasn't doing that.

[NRM Mall]

Hey, shout out to Mook. That's my man.

[Math Hoffa]

He wasn't doing that.

[NRM Mall]

So.

[Math Hoffa]

So one, when we hear it, it's like, one, there's the people that's skeptical. Is it real?

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

And two, it's like, is this gonna win you this battle? I feel like what Hitman did was kind of like what I call a dim mock. The death touch. Like, he's gonna walk away, but maybe he's gonna battle somebody down the line that's gonna know how to take that information and use it against him the right way. The way Hitman did it, it was like, all right, you're not gonna win the battle like this, bro. Nobody believed that he was the greatest dad. We saw him getting arrested.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

You're just kind of telling us what we saw already. Like, you know what I mean? We saw him in the crib, like, okay, all right. Nobody thought Mook was, like, the best dad in the world, so.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

You got any? Got anything else for us? And it was like, nah.

[Rory]

Yeah, I get that. I guess the last question I want to ask is what I've seen recently from just POD fans is that you're focused more on music than you are on podcasting. And people may want more potting from you than music, just of what Internet comments is, but it's just Internet comments. Is that more your focus, or is potting more your focus?

[Math Hoffa]

It's hard for me to accept that rap is, like, a hobby now it's hard to accept that, you know what I'm saying?

[NRM Mall]

I think that's the beautiful thing, though.

[Math Hoffa]

It's not beautiful if you start dreaming about rocking stadiums and shit. You wake up and you're like, oh, I'm a podcaster.

[NRM Mall]

Sorry.

[Math Hoffa]

You know what I'm saying? It's not the same.

[Rory]

We. We sit here and gossip.

[Math Hoffa]

Shout out to platinum, shout out to S5. I pretty much paid their rent for two years.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

Because I love creating music. I don't think people really, they never really seen me in that element. Like, you know, I mean, I bring in multiple producers and, and have orchestrated in it.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

And, you know, I got 180 records sitting around, ton of features that I haven't released. I gotta get over this fucking complex. But in a way, I also have to accept that this is the primary job. This is really.

[Rory]

But to me, that's perspective. I think that's actually the blessing of the whole shit. Where rap being a hobby should be looked at as a positive thing where you could keep your overhead and your bills and make sure your kids are good based off doing the pod shit. Now you got free range to do with the you want with music. You don't gotta chase shit. You don't have to fucking. All right, I gotta make this type of song because this is what's gonna be profitable. Like, I think that puts you in the best position ever to make music because it's not your livelihood.

[Math Hoffa]

Right.

[Rory]

Like, to me, that's the blessing. Like, thank God I could be a podcaster so I could finally not look at music as it has to be a monetary value thing in the, in this process.

[NRM Mall]

You could create.

[Rory]

I could do what the I wanna.

[NRM Mall]

Do, just creating and not from a place of like, you know, know, surviving. Like, I got to do this to make money and to survive and live.

[Math Hoffa]

Like, right.

[NRM Mall]

You can create from a space of, you know, I just want to have fun with this and create dope music.

[Math Hoffa]

But. But then for me, it is somebody connected to, to my music. And I want to shout out, my bro Hands. I told Hands years ago, I'm talking about early NYB days, battling Rex, all that. I said, yo, if I ever got in a position where I can introduce you to the world, I'm gonna do it. So when the podcast started picking up, I started a label, DFG Records, and I signed my bro and we been all over the place recording and all that. When he got stage four cancer, when he found out that he had stage four cancer, it threw Me. But he's fighting and he's beating the shit, so hopefully we'll get his music out soon. But, you know, it's a different. I'm connected to people that I feel like I have to do it for.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

So it's a hobby, right?

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

And Hands is like. He's like the locks rolled up in one person from Brooklyn. Yeah, Brooklyn Hands.

[NRM Mall]

I'm about to say. I feel like I heard this.

[Math Hoffa]

Hands.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

RJ Payne to me is like Hands junior.

[Rory]

Okay.

[NRM Mall]

Really? Really?

[Math Hoffa]

Because that pain. No, yeah. The first thing that came was Hands and they. The vocal tone and all that. I'm telling you, like, you have to check them out.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

Rj, you get mad at me if you want my. You can't smoke neither one of us. So what you going through?

[NRM Mall]

Pain is nice now, man. We ain't doing that Pain, you know, Pain is one of them dudes.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah, that's cool.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, that's cool.

[Math Hoffa]

He dissed me a long time ago. It was so corny. Oh, my God. This shot a video. He had on a three quarter leather vest with no shirt. Looked like a look like a lost Jodeci member. He went in the part where he dissed me, he threw a center block into a puddle.

[NRM Mall]

What?

[Math Hoffa]

You lucky. You took that down off the Internet. You are so lucky.

[NRM Mall]

Yo, that gotta be funny though, like reliving like the moments where you got dissed just like as you old and be like, yo, what.

[Rory]

What the.

[Math Hoffa]

Because in my mind, I'm still picturing this center block falling, a puddle in slow motion and then just splash. And I'm like, what the. This got to do with me, dog? The did this. That's just me.

[NRM Mall]

Yo, this is somebody like that art form of dissing each other is so crazy when you go back and just look at and be like, like, what was that?

[Math Hoffa]

What was that? Rain Man. What was that? Rain Man.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, they don't remember when he was.

[Math Hoffa]

They don't know he was Rain Man.

[NRM Mall]

Rain Man. They don't.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah, Rain man took a shot.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

In a three quarter leather vest.

[Rory]

And no, I. I got to tell math while. While he's here. I've had. So I have a two year old daughter, right. And sometimes I like, you know, sleep next to her crib with it open just. Just so she could go to sleep with me there. But I put my AirPod in, right? So. So I. I put on like a podcast sometimes. That should help me go to sleep. So I put on some of y' all and Then you know you can't really do the algorithm. So sometimes I go back to an old math episode. So I'll be halfway.

[Math Hoffa]

I already know.

[Rory]

And it'll be trap rapper turn trap. I wake up, it's.

[Math Hoffa]

Get thousands of complaints about that gunshot.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Trap.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah. Only smack rapper.

[Rory]

And then I'd be feeling bad for Mech, cuz. Mech claims being that he is a back backpack rapper. And I'm like, damn, Matt is lying in his. His rhymes. He hang with the backpackers.

[Math Hoffa]

Not no more.

[NRM Mall]

Not no more.

[Rory]

Yo, the amount of times I've jumped up next to my daughter's crib based off that first part, when it goes from one interview, did it wake you.

[Math Hoffa]

Up at a good time? Was she up looking at her?

[Rory]

No, she was asleep. I was trying to make sure I wasn't getting shot.

[NRM Mall]

Nigga, they get in the crib. Yo, yo, Mav, let's talk about somebody like. We just finished saying Smack, man. The importance of smack, not just to battle rap culture, but to our culture, period. And what he was able to do for years, coming from the DVD era to now having the caffeine app and things like that, what he's doing with the. How important is it that we continue to support people like Smack that have been doing it for so many years and have created so many opportunities for people in the culture?

[Math Hoffa]

I think it's very important, but at the same time, I think it's important to support the culture, period.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

Shout out to Smack. I was one of the battle rappers on the dvd.

[NRM Mall]

Absolutely.

[Math Hoffa]

Battling Iron Solomon.

[NRM Mall]

I had it.

[Math Hoffa]

I had the dvd, of course, the viral shit with Dose.

[Rory]

And one time. I actually feel like you were not wrong whatsoever.

[Math Hoffa]

One time. Which time?

[Rory]

That the Dose one.

[Math Hoffa]

Okay.

[Rory]

The serious thing, I think I'm like.

[Math Hoffa]

You could have chill was wrong. Have you ever met. Ever met him? No.

[Rory]

That's actually hilarious. Hilarious response, which I respect. Like, you. You don't know. You don't know.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, yeah. That was some whole other.

[Rory]

That's fair. But no, the dope whenever was wilding out back in the day, and I was like, yo, if somebody put their whole brim of their hat in your nose, you're not gonna hit them.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Math Hoffa]

Gave me the Scottie Pippen.

[Rory]

How would you want.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's very important because I feel like battle rap in. In a way. Smack URL. All other battle leagues support lyricism. And we can't let this shit die, bro. We just can't. We grew up loving the bars and Something. Something happened to you chemically. Like your mind expanded when you heard a dope bar or you figured out a complex metaphor.

[NRM Mall]

Right.

[Math Hoffa]

You know what I mean? And it takes a level of intelligence, and I feel like there's a. There's a lot of depending on who you listen to as far as rap. Like, I kind of. Of tell, like, where you at mentally.

[NRM Mall]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. You know what I mean?

[Rory]

That's why I think a lot of great lyricists have became good podcasters. And not only it made sense why your shit popped. Podcasting, it's the same part of the.

[NRM Mall]

Brain, why a lot of great lyricists have become great businessmen.

[Math Hoffa]

So I feel like there's an element that needs to stay now when I say support all leagues. Cause there's only so much smack can do. And there's a lot of talent.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

So sometimes you need a rbe, you need a tbl, you need these other leagues that's, like, gonna keep shit going. You know what I mean? So, yeah. Smack. Shout out to Smack. What he did. I was the first battle on URL. Me and Rex. Yep. So to see where it is now, it's, like, incredible. Incredible. They've been trying to get me to come back, but you ain't gonna jump.

[NRM Mall]

You ain't gonna jump back in the ring.

[Math Hoffa]

I've been thinking about it.

[NRM Mall]

Who would it be?

[Math Hoffa]

This episode. I don't know if I want to hear this shit back.

[NRM Mall]

You know, man, this is. Listen, man, you. Cause you got. You got. Like you said, you. You got a lot of shit on other niggas, too, that you can go home and start crafting, too. Yeah, but who was the one battle that you would jump out there for? Like, yeah, we gotta do this. Like, who's the one guy that you would be like, all right. For him. Him. Because we know it'll be big. It'll be a moment.

[Math Hoffa]

Jadakiss.

[Rory]

Oh, so you're not even going with.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah, just do you. Right.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, Like, I'm. Wait, hold up. Like, I wasn't expecting to say.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah.

[NRM Mall]

I was like.

[Math Hoffa]

Like 10 million. Yeah.

[NRM Mall]

Jada. I mean. Yes.

[Math Hoffa]

But. All right, seriously. Because I don't think Jada would ever do that.

[Rory]

Yeah. I don't think he's in that mode.

[Math Hoffa]

I would love, however, the Legends. Only thing that I did with Method Man. Yeah. And Nicky Jam, I would love, like. Cause I know there's a. Like, I interviewed Ghostface and Ray last night, and Ghostface wants to do that shit.

[NRM Mall]

He want to jump in the ring.

[Math Hoffa]

He wants to do that. Shit, Ray was like kind of like, yo, nigga, don't.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

You know what I mean? 10 million. You know what I mean? But I feel like, like there's a lot of rappers that's like, yo, I would love to put myself to that type of challenge. I feel like the legends only shit is like, it's more artistic than your career is over after.

[Rory]

Yeah. You know, it's almost like big three type of thing.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Math Hoffa]

And it's this, like, half of the guests that I've had on the show watch battle rap, and that's why I was able to get them. You Know what I mean? So. So I would love to do something like that. Like, boom.

[NRM Mall]

Make that dope space makes sense. Because battle rap, like you said when you battle Rex on URL, the first where battle rap was there, you know, you came up where battling was different than it is now. Now it's more like spoken word poetry. It's a lot more theatrics into it and things like that. You come from straight going to somebody block. Let me hear your bars.

[Math Hoffa]

Right.

[NRM Mall]

So somebody like Ghost is very animated. He has a lot of character. He has a lot of personality. He makes sense in that ring. Because what people like to see today in battle rap, Ghostface has been that probably his entire career.

[Rory]

He also has one of, like, the clearest voices ever, like, where Rey has, like, a unorthodox flow. And that would be. That may be weird on. On the stage. Ghost, like, he's made for the URL stage now.

[NRM Mall]

He want to snap. He want to crack.

[Math Hoffa]

Ghost is made for whatever y' all do. Don't battle Raekwan.

[Rory]

Oh, no, I'm. No, I'm not trying to battle Ray the.

[Math Hoffa]

That he said on the show about what type of battle rapper he would be. Okay, go battle Rayquan, son. Do not battle Raekwon. That's all I'm saying.

[NRM Mall]

Are we gonna do voicemails of Mav? All right, let's. So, Mav, we got callers that call and leave voicemails. They ask for advice. Ask crazy. So we gonna do one with you, and we could all give them some advice together.

[Math Hoffa]

Oh, that's dope.

[NRM Mall]

You've got Ma.

[Caller Frank Little]

So I was born with a defect that pretty much makes it impossible for me to get erections because I have left a leak in my veins. And down there, especially when the blood pumps in, it just comes right back out. So can't get erections, obviously, because blood flow doesn't stay where it needs to stay. And so I Try to get surgery on it done to try to tie the vein up. Didn't work.

[Math Hoffa]

Pause this, man. Like, we still. Why y' all still playing this, bro?

[NRM Mall]

I want to hit the.

[Rory]

Is he actually.

[Math Hoffa]

Why the. Is he asking y'?

[NRM Mall]

All?

[Math Hoffa]

He's like, yeah, these look like they got erectile dysfunction or they went through something. Let me ask these.

[Rory]

I gotta hear him land the point here.

[NRM Mall]

Let me hear. Let me hear this.

[Math Hoffa]

They look erectile dysfunction.

[Caller Frank Little]

They said, my real last option is trying to get a prosthetic penis. Because when you get the prosthetic, you don't get any more natural erections. You still come and everything, and you still feel everything, according to the doctors, but you don't get natural erections. And I feel like that's such an important part of being a man is just being able to get hard on, you know, the strap of a dime and baby D, would you, like, be with the guy that has a prosthetic penis? Like, if you knew about it, would that, like, deter you?

[Rory]

All right, well, I want to apologize for laughing.

[NRM Mall]

I like the fact that I don't.

[Rory]

Mean to laugh about his condition. It was my natural reaction. I apologize for laughing.

[Math Hoffa]

Yes.

[Rory]

It's not funny, baby.

[NRM Mall]

You can stop funny.

[Math Hoffa]

Hold on. You stop funny. That is hilarious.

[Baby D]

What if your dick couldn't get hard? Would you think that that was fun?

[Math Hoffa]

This God's lie.

[NRM Mall]

I wouldn't be calling. Let's start there.

[Math Hoffa]

The best kept secret in the world.

[NRM Mall]

What? Nobody.

[Math Hoffa]

The CIA wouldn't figure out my still.

[Baby D]

A secret because he called anonymously. We don't have his name.

[NRM Mall]

He did say his name at the top from the dmv.

[Rory]

He said his whole address.

[Math Hoffa]

Get this. A honey pack, bro. Like, what is going on?

[Rory]

Sponsored by facts words.

[Math Hoffa]

Cialis exists. Go.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, I would have kept that to myself and just got the prosthetic and nobody would ever know. And that would have just been my secret to the grave.

[Baby D]

Is it a prosthetic or is it a penis pump? Like, do you have to squeeze your.

[Rory]

Balls and pump it up?

[Math Hoffa]

Hold on.

[Rory]

I don't even know what that means.

[Math Hoffa]

Hold on. What's this nigga's name? Frank.

[Rory]

That was a battle rap triple entendreculate.

[Baby D]

So me personally, if you want to know if I would date somebody with a prosthetic, as long as it wasn't too weird looking inside. And as long. I mean, you probably.

[Rory]

What's a prosthetic dick, though? I really don't even know what the that is.

[Baby D]

Like, that's what I'm Saying, I don't think he's getting a prosthetic. Like, I think he's getting like, the.

[Rory]

Way, like when soldiers come home after they get their leg blown off. Like, is that version of a dick?

[Math Hoffa]

Lieutenant Dan.

[Rory]

It's Lieutenant Dan of dicks.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, it's the same.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah. What are we talking about, bro?

[Rory]

Like, well, now, if you could still feel it, though, he could do numbers though.

[Math Hoffa]

He could do numbers.

[Rory]

Anyway, if you think about that, that might be the best option if you could still feel it still come and you like. You brick all the time.

[NRM Mall]

Oh, it's insertion of a prosthetic balloon.

[Math Hoffa]

Device that I knew it was a.

[NRM Mall]

Pump in order to obtain an. Okay, so it's like a Reebok. Like a re.

[Rory]

Pumping up your.

[NRM Mall]

It's like a Rebok pump. Okay.

[Baby D]

You squeeze the ball.

[Rory]

First of all, that's your group pop.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, I don't know. I would have just got that shit and not told nobody, man.

[Baby D]

Yeah, I think you squeeze the balls when you wanna get hard. Like, it's like a punk.

[Math Hoffa]

Oh, this is where we going. Okay.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah. Sir, I would just say get it and then don't tell nobody.

[Baby D]

Don't fuck with no half flaccid dick. Like, we've been there before. That shit is ass.

[Math Hoffa]

It's half flaccid. What?

[NRM Mall]

That's when it's like, not all the way.

[Rory]

A little schmedium.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah. It's like, you ain't all the way up, but you all right.

[Baby D]

Trying to shove slime through a keyhole.

[Rory]

Yeah. You get it done.

[NRM Mall]

Trying to nail jello to the wall.

[Math Hoffa]

Just be a lesbian. Lesbian being a lesbian.

[NRM Mall]

Lesbian. All right, Math. Listen, man, we appreciate you this.

[Rory]

No advice.

[NRM Mall]

No, we didn't get it one.

[Rory]

We apologize for laughing too. Yeah. Get the surgery and.

[NRM Mall]

And.

[Rory]

And just get to it.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rory]

Go crazy. Because now you can just get hard whenever you want. Pause.

[Math Hoffa]

Like, you good name is Frank Little.

[Baby D]

I'm so sorry that we had.

[Rory]

Can you. Can you.

[Baby D]

We answered your question.

[Rory]

When you give me a third round against. Against him with this information that you.

[NRM Mall]

Oh, my God.

[Degree Cool Rush Announcer]

Battle rap.

[NRM Mall]

Find out. Battle rapper got the prosthetic. You can't battle rap and have the prosthetic and find out.

[Rory]

Yeah. Cuz I heard Mooc give Iron Solomon.

[NRM Mall]

Oh, I thought you was about to say something about. You heard.

[Rory]

I heard a whole round where Mook talked about Iron Solomon having one ball.

[Math Hoffa]

So I. I wouldn't have spit that if I was Mook. I wouldn't. I would have been like, Nah, that ain't. No. I'm not going.

[NRM Mall]

That ain't an angle, right? We ain't doing that.

[Math Hoffa]

My. Like, you're. You're. You're inadvertently making the crowd think about this nigga's genitalia, bro. Why.

[Rory]

And even just landing with how you got the ball stand next to me. He's like, I don't even know if it was worth that line.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't really worth it.

[Rory]

And I mean, they should have done.

[Math Hoffa]

Five rounds like, yo, Muk got some terrible angles, man. He's dope, but got some terrible angles.

[NRM Mall]

Before we leave, give me Mount Rushmore Battle Rap.

[Math Hoffa]

Math H for Math H. Math H for Math.

[Rory]

All right. The next mountain over, the question of who.

[Math Hoffa]

Who I will battle.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

You said Jadakiss and then. And then.

[Math Hoffa]

I wasn't really serious about the Jadakiss. I did that. I said that years ago, and he kind of sent me a dm. Like, what the Is you talk. Yeah, I did. You know, just. That's just for kicks. I would definitely. I. I think Murder Mooc would be the battle I say I'm going to do.

[Rory]

I was hoping that would be the one that you would do. So that's the one I've.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Now that that Mook is more active, I felt like you and him makes the most sense. Months at this point with the history with y' all legacy that. That just makes.

[NRM Mall]

That's just so many.

[Rory]

That's the one that.

[NRM Mall]

That's so many years of battle rap history right there on, like, battling each other. Jesus.

[Rory]

Like, everyone's waiting again for part two of Mook and Lux. To me, is. Is Math and Mooc now in this era is the one that everybody would wait for.

[Math Hoffa]

I think. I think his pen is at now skipping over that Iron Solomon. Where his pen is at now. That's what I would need to, like, really push myself. You know what I mean?

[NRM Mall]

And he's not. I think, man, he sounded drinking.

[Math Hoffa]

He's still not drinking this, and I'm not drinking fire. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, we'd be too sober ass fire stage.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, that'd be crazy.

[Math Hoffa]

People try to get me to battle Tay Rock, but I'm like, tay you.

[NRM Mall]

I like Tay Rock, but I just think. I think with you and Mook is just more there.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah. Because Tay Rock doesn't even understand how bad of a matchup that is. Like, you're the guy who almost fights niggas versus.

[NRM Mall]

The guy that's doctor Fighting.

[Math Hoffa]

What are you gonna say to me, shut up, shut up. Get somebody to hold you back.

[Rory]

But I. I mean, I also hear you on that. Because as much as I like Tay Rock, I hated when he was battling daylight and, like, was appreciating his bars. I hated when Iron Solomon battled disaster and kept complimenting him. Like, I just don't. I just don't like that type of. Yeah, it's supposed to be, like, y' all are. Even if you're lying, if it's. If it's wrestling each other.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Like, yeah, I think it's.

[Math Hoffa]

That's the problem. That's the problem. For me to be motivated, it's either got to be somebody who I feel like, yo, all right, I gotta push the pin, or I really don't like you. If I really don't like you, you die.

[NRM Mall]

The battle's better.

[Math Hoffa]

You're dead.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, well, Math, we appreciate you, man. This conversation was beautiful, man. A lot of clarity. Yeah, man. And this was long overdue. So we definitely.

[Math Hoffa]

I appreciate y'.

[Baby D]

All.

[NRM Mall]

Yeah, man, I appreciate you. We definitely gotta come. I don't know. Damn, we talked about so much real shit here. What the fuck can we talk about on Matt?

[Rory]

Oh, no, it's gonna be the reverse where we're on the therapy couch.

[Math Hoffa]

Yeah, don't worry. I'm. I'll come up with something.

[Rory]

All right.

[NRM Mall]

That's fair.

[Rory]

The thumbnail should be the therapy session of Math laying on your couch.

[NRM Mall]

This definitely was the therapy session for Math. But seriously, Math, man, I appreciate you just being vulnerable and having this conversation with us, man. It was beautiful. I think that a lot of people are going to learn a lot from you. A different perspective of math, a different side of math. Love everything you're doing. Love to. Love the revamp, the way you came back. Definitely keep bringing the guys from the battle culture on there and having those conversations. Cause that, to me, is super fire.

[Math Hoffa]

Y.

[NRM Mall]

Seeing y' all sit down and have those conversations away from the battle arena. And, yeah, we come to do your shit. So we'll see you in a minute, I bet.

[Math Hoffa]

Give me a date. We all good.

[NRM Mall]

I'm that nigga. He's just ginger. That's Math Hoffa.

[Math Hoffa]

Salute. We out of here.

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[Degree Cool Rush Announcer]

Today's episode is brought to you by Ascent that's made a legendary comeback Comeback Degree Original Cool Rush the OG is back and better than ever. Cool Rush isn't just a scent, it's a movement. The kind of fragrance that millions of guys ask for by name. It's bold, fresh and delivers all day sweat protection with that cool, crisp vibe that made it a legend. Whether you're heading to the gym, the office or just trying to stay fresh on a long day, Cool Rush has your back. So if you haven't tried it yet, head to your local Walmart and Grab Degree Cool Rush, the fan favorite scent from the world's number one antiperspirant brand.

[Ed Helms]

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[Rory]

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[Ed Helms]

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[Rory]

This is an ad by BetterHelp. We've all had that epic rideshare experience halfway through.

[Ed Helms]

You're best friends and they know your.

[Rory]

Aspirations to go find yourself in Portugal. It's human we're all looking for someone to listen, but not everyone is equipped to help. With over a decade of experience, BetterHelp matches you with the right therapist. See why they have a 4.9 rating out of 1.7 million client session reviews? Visit betterhelp.com for 10% off your first month.

[Baby D]

This is an iHeart podcast.