Episode 467 | What Is A Classic? w/ Torae

Summary

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New Rory & MAL: Episode 467 | What Is A Classic? w/ Torae

Date: March 13, 2026
Special Guest: Torae
Main Theme: Defining a "Classic" Album in Hip-Hop

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into one of hip-hop culture’s most hotly debated questions: "What is a classic album?" The regular crew—Rory, Maul, Tamara, and guest Torae—debate timelessness, the line between "great" and "classic," regional and generational differences, and the role of gatekeepers versus fans in defining culture. Along the way, they touch on current rap beefs (Papoose, 50 Cent, Maino, Max B), authenticity and AI in music, Jack Harlow’s unconventional album rollout, the history of rapper/producers, and the very soul of hip-hop critique.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Current State of Rap Beefs (Starts ~[06:25])

• Brooklyn Bias & G-Unit Bias: The crew jokes about not being objective due to hometown allegiances in analyzing the beef between Papoose, 50 Cent, Maino, and Max B.
• Recycled Diss Content: Rory notes frustration with repetitive angles in recent diss tracks:
  Rory ([08:03]): “It’s been the same rhymes for 20 years from everybody. ‘50, you only got shot five times not nine. You’re a snitch.’ I heard this for 20 years.”
• Shock Value Over Substance: Tamara points out the expectation for new revelations in every battle:
  Tamara ([07:08]): “Every time there’s a rap battle, now you need jaw-dropping, never-before-heard info. Why?”
• Absurdity as Entertainment: The group laughs about fake medical disclosures as diss fodder:
  Rory ([13:06]): “Can y’all tell me how 50 should have done his herpes reveal?” Jermaine Dupri ([13:06]): “That’s a wild question to pose, man.”

2. Authenticity, AI, and the Evolving Landscape (Starts ~[15:14])

• AI in Entertainment: Discussion about an AI-generated Max B & 50 video raises questions about reality, authenticity, and trolling in rap beefs.
• Maul ([17:15]): “This is a new element in battle rapping. I could have this video done in an hour to my diss track. Whole different element of entertainment now.”
• Historical Parallels: The shift from casting lookalikes in parody videos to using AI reminds the crew of diss video history (e.g., Dr. Dre vs. Eazy E).
• Boundaries in Battle: Maul maintains: “Once you say battle, it’s all gloves off. There ain’t no rules, no women and children—nah. Everything’s on the table.” ([19:21])

3. When (and Why) Rap Beefs End (Starts ~[23:02])

• Does This Ever End? Debate about whether the beef cycle ever truly concludes, or if it’s just the perpetual “algorithm” of hip-hop egos and attention spans.
• 50 Cent’s Evolution:
  Jermaine Dupri ([25:44]): “It’s the same trolling, but he’s delivering it differently. Like a diss record…but there’s no music behind it—just eight episodes.”
• Entertainment Drives It All:
  Maul ([26:53]): “At the end of the day, it’s all entertainment.”

4. The Classic Album Debate (Starts ~[59:33])

• What is a Classic? The table takes on the age-old question, citing examples and counterexamples (Jadakiss, Drake, 50 Cent, Busta, Ludacris, Black Thought).
• Are All Good Albums Classics?
  Maul ([61:12]): “There’s a difference between classic and good albums. It’s hard to have a classic album.”

Highlight: The Get Rich or Die Tryin’ Argument ([65:17] onward)

• Maul: “If you go back and listen to Get Rich or Die Tryin’, it’s a great album, but is it a classic? … To me, mid.”
• Rory: “Get Rich or Die Tryin’ took over the world. The music was there too.”
• Tamara: “I think Get Rich or Die Tryin’ is a classic album. ... People’s parents know ‘P.I.M.P.’”

Classic vs. Personal Classic ([72:09])

• The group recognizes some records are “classics to me,” but not universally acknowledged.
• Torae: “There’s a spectrum of classics. Some are community, some are world.”

5. Producer/Rappers & Their Place in Hip-Hop (Starts ~[52:32])

• Modern Multitalents: They discuss modern and legacy rapper-producers (Tyler, the Creator, Kanye, Big Krit, Hit-Boy, Russ, Outkast, Pimp C).
• Tyler’s Place:
  Jermaine Dupri ([57:27]): “Tyler’s number one, hands down. He literally put on the cover of Igor, ‘written, created, mixed, engineered’ ... he’s a musical genius.”
• Cole’s Beats:
  Rory ([58:58]): “I think J. Cole gets too much flack—his beats are not as bad as people make them out to be.”

6. The Fan vs. Gatekeeper in Hip-Hop Culture (Starts ~[104:58])

• The Ebro Rant: Ebro’s viral clip about “real” opinions spawns heated debate: Ebro (clip): “Some of y’all don’t deserve a fucking opinion... You’re just a fan, just a consumer.”
• Maul: “We’re all consumers... But Ebro has been in the music business, he has a different connection—but these are all just opinions.”
• Torae: “People talk with a certain certainty that have no idea what they’re talking about...that pisses me off. But once art is out there, everyone has a right to critique it.”
• Tamara: “Art isn’t created for radio or peers—it’s for the little niggas in the barbershop to debate if Kiss of Death is a classic. It’s for the fan!”
• Rory ([109:17]): “We are the least important part of the process. The two most important people: The artist, and then the consumer.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On recycling beef topics:
  “I’m just sick of 20 years hearing the same exact thing about 50 Cent.” – Rory ([07:04])
• On AI in rap beefs:
  “Now you don’t have to cast anybody, you could just type it in.” – Jermaine Dupri ([17:35])
• On what makes a classic:
  “Classic is ‘test of time’. Replay value.” – Jermaine Dupri ([61:34])
• On hip-hop’s evolution:
  “It’s the evolution of the diss song… of 50. He’s not just a rapper anymore, he’s an executive producer.” – Maul ([31:33])
• On albums surviving time:
  “If an asteroid hits the planet and we can put albums in some shit to survive, are they gonna take Chicken and Beer and Illmatic and say these are the same?” – Rory ([88:05])
• On regional classic disagreements:
  “If someone in NY said 400 Degrees isn’t a classic, the south would lose their minds.” – Rory ([79:03])
• On fan participation:
  “Music is for everybody to listen to. It can’t be critiqued at the same snob level… Hip-hop is the biggest genre in the world, it’s not for snobs anymore.” – Rory ([116:09])

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [06:25] – Deep dive into Papoose v. 50 Cent beef, jokes about Brooklyn and G-Unit bias
• [13:06] – Wild accusations and the entertainment aspect of rap beefs
• [15:14] – Debate on AI in hip-hop (real/fake Max B & 50 collab video)
• [25:44] – How 50 Cent has evolved beef into the documentary/tv era
• [59:33] – The “classic album” barbershop moment: what are classics, regional/classic album lists, Jadakiss, Drake
• [65:17] – Is "Get Rich or Die Tryin’" a classic? Line-by-line dissection
• [78:05] – Are regional classics possible? South vs. East vs. West
• [104:58] – The Ebro “gatekeeper” rant and who gets to define opinions in hip-hop
• [113:29] – Media vs. the average fan: who does hip-hop belong to now?

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The Tone

Conversational, irreverent, passionate, and at times hilarious, with plenty of regional, generational, and nerdy deep cuts. No one claims to be the final authority, but the debate is sharp, opinionated, and, as always, entertaining.

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Conclusion

This episode showcased hip-hop’s eternal barbershop debate: What makes an album classic—and who gets to say so? With sharp insights, personal anecdotes, and plenty of jokes, Rory, Maul, Tamara, and Torae prove that in hip-hop, the line between “dope” and “classic” will be argued forever—and that's what keeps the culture alive.

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Transcript

[Tamara]

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[Maul]

Lenovo.

[Lenovo Advertiser]

No warrior now.

[Rory]

No conductor. And we are back, sponsored by Boost Mobile. Happy end of the week.

[Maul]

It is the end of the week.

[Rory]

Rory Maul is very, very disappointed because we have to come in here and start our podcast with Papoose today. But I'm actually thrilled. And we also have a friend of the show.

[Maul]

Yes.

[Rory]

Joining us today, our Guy Torre. Welcome, guy.

[Maul]

Thank you. That's the young vet. Y' all don't know him as the young vet.

[Rory]

Coney Island's finest.

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's because that was 20 years ago. That's. Thank you guys for having me. I'm a big fan of what you guys are doing here. You know, honored to be on this couch right here.

[Maul]

As somebody from Coney island, let me ask you, how many times have you been to the Bronx? Growing up.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Growing up or in my adulthood.

[Maul]

No, in the adulthood it's different. Cause you could drive to the Bronx. I'm talking about being young. Having to take the train from Coney island to the Bronx. How many times did you do that?

[Jermaine Dupri]

Probably like zero to negative five.

[Maul]

Exactly.

[Rory]

He'd still be on.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I don't ever want to take the train. I would have turned 20 years old.

[Maul]

Cause we was talking, I don't know how many weeks ago, but we were talking about how long the train ride is. Is from uptown to Coney Island. That's like a two hour train.

[Jermaine Dupri]

No, that's literally from like the start to the end, bro.

[Maul]

It's crazy.

[Jermaine Dupri]

It's the alpha and the.

[Maul]

Okay, you can literally get to. You could take a flight. I'm talking about from my door to my mother's door in Virginia is less than two hours. No, you can get in the car

[Jermaine Dupri]

and drive to Philly and watch a Sixes game in the same amount of time it take you to get on the train, especially if somebody jump on the track.

[Maul]

That is insane that that takes that long.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Nah, this is sick. It's a sick time.

[Maul]

But like, going to Coney island was a thing. Like, that was like a day where we like, all right, we going to Coney island tomorrow. Let's go to Nath.

[Jermaine Dupri]

As you should.

[Maul]

You know what I'm saying? But I just wanted to know somebody being from Coney Island. How many times did you make the voyage from Coney island to the Bronx?

[Jermaine Dupri]

The furthest we was going on the train was to Harlem. You know what I'm saying? That was it.

[Maul]

That's right there.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Harlem.

[Maul]

The Bronx is right there.

[Jermaine Dupri]

And then when I was a kid, I was in trouble, so I couldn't go to like the school trip. So if we went to the Bronx Zoo or something.

[Maul]

Okay.

[Jermaine Dupri]

You know what I'm saying? I couldn't do that. I had no permission slip. So yeah, I would go to the Bronx Zoo from Coney. Now we probably would go to Brooklyn. But just in case, on the off chance that they might have wanted to. I still couldn't go.

[Maul]

Got you. All right.

[Jermaine Dupri]

She was fucked up.

[Maul]

All right, well, that's good to hear. Somebody been from Coney island that they never made that trip. Trip. Just like we probably made that trip.

[Rory]

Let's do a stream. City island to Coney island this summer.

[Maul]

City island to Coney Island.

[Rory]

All public transportation.

[Maul]

Nah, that's.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Count me out.

[Maul]

Yeah. First of all, how you gonna have service to do that?

[Rory]

We'll find a way. We'll talk to Mondami. He's gonna give us free wi fi.

[Maul]

That is true. I forgot. I forgot that was part of his. We'll get a free sandwich on for

[Rory]

the streamers of New York.

[Maul]

It was the free grocery store that opened one day and closed, right?

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Maul]

Now that's closed. So then we' free wi fi on the subway as well.

[Rory]

Why I was excited to actually Talk about this Papoose 50 Maino Max B Debaco is because we have Brooklyn bias in here and we have G unit bias. Full G unit bias in here.

[Maul]

Me and Max went to the same high school, so.

[Rory]

Fair.

[Maul]

I'll take Max in this fight.

[Rory]

Okay, so we will not get a objective opinion from anyone in here. No whatsoever. I was talking to Damaris off mic. I'm really coming in here being objective. She does not think that. But I didn't mind the main o diss. I didn't mind the papoose one. Thought they were both cool. I'm just sick of 20 years hearing the same exact thing about 50 Cent.

[Maul]

Okay, that's fair.

[Rory]

But if Tamara started shaking in her

[Tamara]

chair when I said I did not start shaking in my chair, I just said, I'm tired of your bullshit. Because now, suddenly, every time there's a rap battle, you have to hear some jaw dropping new breaking news that you never heard before in order for it to be.

[Rory]

First of all, he said he has herpes. That was kind of a.

[Maul]

Just put lies in the. In the distance. We don't need facts.

[Jermaine Dupri]

We don't need facts no more.

[Tamara]

Just lie. It been lies in the distance.

[Maul]

Yeah, just lie about Bucket. What? He said about 50. He got what, herpes and what, diabetes? Yeah, I've never seen 50s medical records. I don't know.

[Rory]

First of all, diabetes shaming is funny.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah, that's wild.

[Rory]

Yo, be like, yo, you got. Yo, you got type one.

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's not even my fault. I'm taking my.

[Rory]

Like, you're laughing at my pancreas.

[Jermaine Dupri]

It's hereditary.

[Rory]

It ain't his fault.

[Jermaine Dupri]

His mother, dad either.

[Tamara]

They said that.

[Rory]

Me too. My mother has type one. I'm sitting there like, damn, Pat G, we can't have the beats no more.

[Maul]

Oh, my God, man. Where are we at as a coach?

[Rory]

No Damaris. I'm not saying that. I don't think every battle needs to be post, push and Drake or URL, where we find out where they went to high school, this and that. I'm just saying it's been the same exact rhymes for 20 years from everybody. 50. You're not. Say you are. Yo, you only got shot five times, not nine times. You're a snitch. You never really went to jail. I heard this for 20 years.

[Maul]

The way the shots is crazy. You got shot five times, fam. Wasn't nine. Okay, right, like, that's easy. All right, fam.

[Jermaine Dupri]

All right, cool.

[Rory]

Shoot me once in the face and you'll never hear the end of the game.

[Maul]

Yeah, like, all right. Nah, you only got shot five times. Stop saying nine. All right, all right. Y' all got it.

[Rory]

And listen, maybe that is true. They even interviewed the guy that was in the car with 50 and asked him that question straight up. And he's a friend of 50. Like, maybe he wasn't counting the shots.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah, like sitting there counting, if.

[Rory]

If I'm 50, I'm counting an exit wound as another shot. If I get. If it goes through my leg and

[Jermaine Dupri]

there's two, that's two.

[Rory]

That's two.

[Jermaine Dupri]

It's two.

[Rory]

I got shot twice. You I mean, I got shot once here. It went through, and then I got shot again this way.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I stitched both sides.

[Rory]

I'm adding up the exit wounds 100%.

[Jermaine Dupri]

But that still didn't. If you. That's still bad math. If you guys had five.

[Maul]

Oh, no, it's terrible.

[Rory]

Well, no, one. One maybe just wasn't in and out. One just stayed in.

[Jermaine Dupri]

One was a great. One stayed in.

[Rory]

Yeah, one was great.

[Jermaine Dupri]

The story's getting better by the shot, I tell you that.

[Maul]

And if you shoot at me nine times, I'm saying you shot at me like you emptied the clip.

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's another thing.

[Maul]

Imagine somebody shooting at you and you hit nine. Your adrenaline, you hurt your n. Shot at me 20 times. Like the number is going to change for me and my story every year. The number changes.

[Jermaine Dupri]

How long it take to pull off, though? Like how you get that many shots off.

[Rory]

It's a lot like the key wasn't in ignition.

[Jermaine Dupri]

These wasn't like.

[Rory]

That's a long time.

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's a long time.

[Rory]

Well, the guy, I think the guy's name was Duf. I think that was his name. He was on Cam Capone in one of those platforms. He was saying he was. He was like turning around cause they had to go the other way. So he was doing like a K turn and I think ran into the car of whoever was behind.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Dude, that was just driving with you

[Maul]

probably that motherfucker was bad that did that move. That was crazy.

[Rory]

And no quote, he backed up into I think the car with the shooter in it and then was kind of like blocked off. And then the shot started and he had his girl in the front seat. And I'm not gonna pretend I'm like fucking Jason Bourne if you start spraying up my car. I don't know if I'm gonna be able to be Vin Diesel and get us out of there that quick. I might freeze up doing a K

[Maul]

turn while somebody sh

[Jermaine Dupri]

over everything.

[Maul]

I don't care about no laws. This is a one way.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I'm going. Whatever.

[Rory]

I think he was blocked in because in the middle of the K turn, he hit the car with the shooter in it.

[Maul]

Oh, okay.

[Rory]

So he couldn't really get away closer

[Jermaine Dupri]

to the shooter at that point.

[Rory]

So, I mean. But again, shooting nine times in a car, that's a couple sec. That's a long, like a very long time.

[Maul]

Look at what we debating though, right? Look at this. We just debating to.

[Jermaine Dupri]

To the point of like

[Maul]

50.

[Jermaine Dupri]

It's like, what else really is there to talk? There's no new nothing. Right. He's been out of the music business. So you can't talk about like what his sales is doing. You know what I'm saying? Like there's no new thing to talk about. So they just talking about the same old thing.

[Rory]

I mean TV shows, it's.

[Jermaine Dupri]

It's.

[Rory]

It's kind of makes Damani's look more credible. Even though Damani didn't say anything that was like super new. At least he did get into post 50s career and how he's moved and who he's put on 50, you could argue has moved somewhat selfish since music since being selfless. Yeah, more or less. Because I think he did do a lot for banks, Yayo and everyone.

[Maul]

For sure.

[Rory]

But he's definitely moved for him and maybe not for the culture. You could make a case. I'm not saying that you can make a case. I'd rather Pap get into that. Cause I think Pap Foose is a great rapper. That could come up with a good theory rather than dog, you're not as gangster as you say you are. He's fucking 51 years old and is shooting TV shows. Do you think anyone cares if he's.

[Maul]

I think the thing is, a lot of these guys have had. As a writer, as a rapper, you know, you always have bars for whoever the top.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Right.

[Maul]

Just in case the day presents itself where me and you gonna get into it. So I think this is just the time where we're hearing all of these bars that these guys have had in their notes and now they got the chance to get it off. Got it. So it's not about saying something new. This is shit they had here or they had written down for the last 15 years.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Just waiting, just in case.

[Maul]

Just waiting. Because 50 is. He's a troll, he's a bully. He came in with that energy. So every rapper had to be like, all right, if he ever come at me, I got something 10,000%, you know what I'm saying? So I think that's what this is. I think these are just bars that these guys have already had. And now it's just the opportunity presented itself for them to get their shit off.

[Rory]

Yeah, again, I just think there should be another angle. I didn't mind Mayno or Papooses, to be quite honest, to Damaris point about giving out new information. This is why rap battles are kind of funny when you step away from it. Outside looking in Papu saying 50, why haven't you told the world you have herpes? Is one of the Funniest things I've ever. Can y' all tell me how 50 should have done his herpes reveal? Like, yo, pass like, yo, look at me. Why have you not told the world you had herpes, bro? Like, I. I sounds like a private matter to me.

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's a wild question to pose, man.

[Maul]

I'm telling you, man, this has reached a whole different level.

[Rory]

And he's like, dude, do what NBA Youngboy did. You know Youngboy is one of the craziest people ever just to rap that he is herpes. Like, I give him respect for rapping his truth, but I don't think everyone is now owes us a rap about their. Their hsv.

[Jermaine Dupri]

No. If I'm not having sexual intercourse with you, young lady.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Then I don't need to know any of this information ever in my life.

[Maul]

And let's move. Does it matter? Does it matter if somebody has herpes?

[Rory]

Well, that explains maybe sexually active with someone. You should know.

[Maul]

No. I mean, yeah, but I'm saying it's like, to us, does it matter to do we give a no.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I literally have you found out your favorite rapper had herpes when he made your favorite album?

[Maul]

You think I'm going delete all his music? This nigga got hurt.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I ain't got this illmatic no more.

[Maul]

Yeah, like, what is that means? What the does that mean to me?

[Rory]

I can't even hear. Nas is like, the same.

[Maul]

Yeah, like, I don't care who got.

[Rory]

Like, we could say that about all rap battles and we're being hypocrites here because it did not change my life when I found out that Drake had a kid. But I was like, damn, push got him.

[Maul]

Like, okay, I get what you're saying, but I.

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's a little more groundbreaking news. Like, you doing all this running around with all the joints and all of that. You got a whole child that nobody knows about. Like, none of your fans. You know what I'm saying? Especially when he's the vulnerable rapper and he's the heart on his sleeve rapper to not talk about the birth of your child. Obviously a private matter, but, you know, I think that was more, like groundbreaking. Oh, Mike, he got a kid, like, for real, like, as a child, you can't watch it.

[Maul]

But it wasn't wild news. It was just more like, oh, well,

[Jermaine Dupri]

it was just shocking.

[Rory]

I mean, 50 has rapped a lot about the injuries to his body. Why not his pancreas or a sexually transmitted disease? If we're going through his track record, he does talk about his body. A lot.

[Maul]

Is the 50 and max B song real?

[Tamara]

Yeah, yeah. It's small.

[Rory]

The video was real too.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Real AI, That's.

[Maul]

No, but.

[Rory]

No, that's just how wavy that Max is. He could ride on. I was in Times Square, I was like, yeah, was that Max B?

[Maul]

But seriously, though, because of this whole AI shit, like, we got to start asking those questions.

[Rory]

I agree with you.

[Jermaine Dupri]

When I saw the video, I didn't know if the song was real or not. Because the video, I was like, the video is fake. Is this a real joint?

[Rory]

Yeah, yeah, it may be.

[Tamara]

It's real.

[Maul]

Is it? Is it real?

[Tamara]

It's real. It's.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yes.

[Maul]

Okay, all right.

[Rory]

It probably is, but I'm not going to say it with the confidence that Tamara is saying, because I've heard some. Some records I did not think were AI that were 1000% AI.

[Maul]

When 50 posted that video, the AI video, that's what made me think, like, all right, hold on, is this real? Because we in this time now where, you know, people post shit. Just making a joke, right? And it's like, all right, is this a real song, though? Like, that's. That's my only thing. Like, is this a real song? Now, obviously, 50 posted it, so I guess you could call that supporting the song, right?

[Jermaine Dupri]

Max posted it too.

[Maul]

Max posted. But. But again, people troll.

[Rory]

50's not putting on his VEVO page.

[Tamara]

50's not putting a fake song on his vevo page. That's a real. This is a real song.

[Maul]

Oh, he put it on. He posted his vevo.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yes.

[Rory]

No, but I'm 50 could have done the AI audio as well as the video. It also would not shock me that 50 would take a fan made song and video, put it on his.

[Tamara]

Not on his. Not on his official YouTube. His IG.

[Rory]

Y' all got 50 fucked up.

[Maul]

I'm with Demerit. So putting it on your vivo makes it a little different. Yeah, like, that's a little. That's more of like a. You stamping it like no business, you

[Jermaine Dupri]

know, because now you got counting streams and you know, that goes into your monetary situation.

[Rory]

I will say I hate AI videos, but this one did make me laugh throughout the entire thing. It's like God awful AI that makes

[Maul]

it funny, but we actually looking at shit change in real time. Because now, like, how much. How much did it cost to create this AI video?

[Rory]

I don't know.

[Maul]

You know what I'm saying?

[Jermaine Dupri]

So it's like, that's made though.

[Maul]

Yeah, like, so this. I'm saying you got this Whole AI video. We don't know who made it.

[Rory]

Probably free at Mind of a Kind. That's probably what.

[Tamara]

Somebody made it. Somebody made the video for him for free.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Maul]

So let's say 50.

[Rory]

It took two. Two liters of water from the Midwest to make that.

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's what it does. This is.

[Maul]

This is.

[Rory]

But Flint still doesn't have any.

[Maul]

I mean, we watching the landscape of entertainment change, though.

[Jermaine Dupri]

It's a different time.

[Maul]

Like, this is a new element in battle rapping now, where I could have this video done in an hour to my diss track to you, right? Like, this is a whole different element of entertainment now.

[Rory]

Yeah, entertainment. I'm glad you said entertainment.

[Tamara]

To me.

[Rory]

It's not really gonna change rap battling in any real way. It was just funny to watch this,

[Jermaine Dupri]

if you really think about it, because

[Rory]

I don't think people take anything serious.

[Jermaine Dupri]

What was it Fuck with Dre Day where they had the fake Eazel, they had the fake Eazy E. Right. I can't remember homie name. But it's no different than that, right? Like before, you would get actors that look like somebody didn't cam have like Jimmy Walker in there when he was different, dissing Jay. You know what I'm saying? And now you don't have to cast anybody. You could just type it in. You know what I'm saying? So it's really an extension of that, where the technology is at.

[Rory]

I will say, as much as 50 doesn't take anything serious, if I'm mano, I would kind of feel away if you doing an AI shit of me getting cut in prison. The other shit was all just kind of ha, ha, ha. But like, you. You typed in Maino getting cut in prison to make an AI video.

[Maul]

Well, 50 didn't make the video.

[Rory]

He posted it. He co signed it.

[Maul]

Okay, but he said he made it. He didn't make this video. He just. Somebody made it, sent it to him. He's like, oh, this is dope. All right, I'm gonna post it.

[Rory]

Yeah, but that's still co signing.

[Maul]

I mean, he wrapped it.

[Rory]

Yeah, he rapped the ball.

[Maul]

You worried about the visual? He rapped the ball.

[Rory]

No, no, no, no. I'm not. I mean, it's battle rap. Whatever. I'm just saying, out of everything that he said was kind of LOLs. I don't know how Mano really actually took that entire thing. Even though his diss record seemed light and Mayno was just, you know, replying. I don't know if he actually feels good.

[Maul]

Listen, man, this is what happens when you jump in the battle ring. If y' all want to battle each other, y' all want to go at each other, which requires disrespect, then that's the art of it. I'm gonna talk about things that happened to you. I'm gonna talk about things that you did, things that you didn'. Like, that's what all of this is. So that's not out of bounds for 50 to rap about that?

[Rory]

No, no, I didn't say it was out of bounds. I just. I was wondering if that was something that you just didn't want to see it that mayno. No, I don't care about that. I'm just not sure if Mano thought that was maybe outside of the LOLs in our rap battle.

[Maul]

Oh, no, this is battling.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Once you say battle is all gloves is off. You've seen that. It's done. It ain't no rules, no women and children. Nah. Everything on the table.

[Rory]

Yeah. I'm just not. I'm just not sure if Mano sees it. That's that way. That's all. But, I mean, where does this land? Are we going to continue this? I actually think Davies got the. The biggest diss out of the entire thing. He started the intro talking about everyone was like, I'm not even talking about you. And then put Davey's face up there. Yeah, that was the first person I thought we were going to hear from. Like, I'm not even worthy to be dissed.

[Maul]

Well, because there's no. There's no. I mean, 50 probably wasn't even really rapping no more when Dave started dropping. So it's like, I don't even.

[Rory]

But Dave was in that cipher that they did for their podcast where Fab was.

[Maul]

Well, that's because of the podcast. If they weren't doing a podcast, Dave wouldn't have been a part of that.

[Rory]

Okay, but do you think that's not a diss, though, to Dave?

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yes.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Maul]

All right. It's a. It's like, oh, he not even talking to me. But I don't know if Dave was sitting back, like, nah, say something to me. I don't know if that's the.

[Rory]

Okay, well, Damani and King weren't around when 50 was rapping, and they caught a bar on the power intro. Even though 50 is lying to us and said he wasn't talking about them, he was talking about them.

[Maul]

Yeah, but once 50 posted a picture of their mom, you can only expect that those guys are gonna jump in the ring, especially if they rap. Big facts.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Maul]

I mean, so at that point, 50 kind of sort of pulled them into it by posting a picture of their mom. So they like, all right, I rap. I got some bars for 50. But with Dave, it's like, you know, I don't. 50 don't have. He don't. Probably never even met Davies.

[Rory]

No, I'm sure they have. They met before.

[Maul]

I'm just saying he probably didn't. I don't know if 50 be around with Dave yet.

[Rory]

Do we think Dave or Fab replies?

[Maul]

Fab, Yes. I don't know if east is gonna respond, though.

[Rory]

I think he's in quad right now. But why, though, right now?

[Maul]

Nobody said 50 didn't say nothing about him.

[Jermaine Dupri]

He didn't say nothing about him. It's weird.

[Rory]

Cause already that's what pissed me off.

[Maul]

Is that cloud.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Guilty by association.

[Maul]

But is it cloud chasing? If east put out a record and 50 ain't say nothing about him, Is he inserting himself into it?

[Rory]

No.

[Maul]

Pause.

[Rory]

I mean, God, that was not bad. We already know it's unsafe to do that with 50 see, choking over your head.

[Maul]

No. No, it didn't.

[Tamara]

No, it didn't.

[Maul]

It absolutely did not. But is that not clout chaser?

[Rory]

No.

[Maul]

If they be like, nah, fuck that.

[Rory]

You put my face in your diss video and said, I'm not even worthy of dissing, then you all in it.

[Jermaine Dupri]

You know what I'm saying?

[Maul]

You're not worthy of dissing. That's disrespectful.

[Rory]

Like if. If he randomly dissed him before.

[Maul]

I'm just asking the room. Is that disrespect?

[Rory]

No, Dave, somebody like, I'm not even.

[Maul]

You're not even worth disrespecting.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Disrespect.

[Maul]

Yes. Okay, so. So I gotta go make a record.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I don't know if you gotta go make a record. You know what I'm saying?

[Maul]

I should go make a record.

[Tamara]

Like, we not watching the clock, but, you know, if the hands start moving, like, you know what I'm saying? We ain't gonna unplug.

[Maul]

So I'm just trying to. I'm just trying to.

[Rory]

You know, Dave doesn't reply. I wouldn't think anything of it, but if he does, I'd be like, yeah, I get it.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah, exactly.

[Rory]

Which is a good position to be in.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I agree with that.

[Maul]

I don't think he should, though.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Nah.

[Maul]

For what?

[Rory]

I mean, how much did he really say about Fab? Besides the. The video made it worse? Because it was. It was Mainly Bano throughout it. But, like, was the Fab shit that. That crazy? It was the video that made it nuts to me.

[Maul]

Yeah, but Fab already put out a record going. So it's on between round two. Yeah, it's on. It's lit.

[Rory]

Does Fab care enough? I was actually shocked. Fab cared enough to do the first one.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I was probably just itching to rap anyway.

[Maul]

Yeah, he want to rap?

[Rory]

I wish.

[Maul]

I want to get his off.

[Rory]

Yeah. Yeah, okay. He has a series called Soul Tape. Go rap

[Tamara]

his beef tape.

[Rory]

That's 20, 26.

[Tamara]

That's what we on.

[Maul]

But where does. And I asked y' all this last week. No, maybe two weeks ago now, where does this end? That's.

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's the real question.

[Maul]

Where does this shit.

[Jermaine Dupri]

What's the point of it all?

[Maul]

Y' all looked at me like, nah, fuck. I'm like, all right. Where does this end? Is all I'm saying.

[Tamara]

Well, when I was talking to you about it, it was just the Harris family involved. Everybody else wasn't involved.

[Maul]

But this was before that.

[Rory]

Yeah, this started before the.

[Maul]

Yeah, this was with Jim and Mayno and Fat. This was before.

[Tamara]

Yeah, but I thought that was over.

[Rory]

So now.

[Maul]

That's what he said.

[Rory]

It's been three months.

[Maul]

We back now. So now what? Like, when does this. Cause that's why I was like, I didn't think 50. Cause I told y', all, I didn't think 50 was gonna respond. I think he was gonna rap. I didn't think he was gonna make music. I thought he was gonna keep it trolling, you know what I'm saying? Because that's what 50 does. He's a troll. Like, he'll say shit on his. On social media. He did the clever move of, you know. Even though he did say that. That wasn't about.

[Tamara]

He's a liar, right?

[Rory]

Lying, like.

[Maul]

But didn't I tell y', all, I said, now, if TI Jump out there and respond to that bar. We just spoke about this the last episode. I said, he didn't say no names. We don't know what the New Power. Where it's gonna be based at. It could have some Atlanta ties in the New Power. We don't know that. That. Y' all was like, nah, that. Okay, now 50 comes out and says that that wasn't. That wasn't directed at.

[Rory]

Said it wasn't about the Cosbys, which is a crazy thing to say.

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's very funny.

[Maul]

So I said, it's pretty funny. And 50 says it. Y' all like, Nah, y' all not jacking that. 50 lying.

[Rory]

I think he's lying.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Jermaine Dupri]

All right, cool.

[Maul]

Y' all could think he's lying. I'm just saying he said it, so now I'm saying. Does TI Respond to that? Again, I'm asking the question.

[Rory]

No, because T already said he was done with it already.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Okay.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Rory]

So I think this. This ends when 50 starts focusing on the TI and Tiny Doc. Whatever 50 is about to promote is when it ends. 50 is going to drag this as long as he.

[Maul]

You think this ends when he puts the doc out? I think TI Gonna give us.

[Rory]

No, no, no. I'm saying this the main.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Oh, okay, okay.

[Rory]

Max B. Papoose, Jim Jones. Like, I think this. This chapter is just an interlude until he gets to the TI And Tiny doc.

[Maul]

Got it.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Okay.

[Rory]

This is to fill some time. Like he said, I'm the algorithms. Everyone have to talk about me. Which, I mean, isn't the case, but it's a fun thing to say.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I think this ends when 50 moves on to his next thing.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yo, doing a doc is really crazy. Doing another doc.

[Maul]

Pardon?

[Jermaine Dupri]

Just crazy.

[Maul]

Yo, why is that crazy, though?

[Jermaine Dupri]

Like, that's where the game is gone to. Like, we doing documentaries about.

[Maul]

Well, he's not. He's not. 50 is in a whole different space of entertainment now, right? He came in as a troll, right, With How To Rob. How to Rob was like, one of the biggest troll records ever, for sure. So he came in with that energy. Like, I'll go at anybody. I don't give a fuck. I don't. I'm not. I'm not. Not here to be friends with any of y'. All. I don't fuck with none of y' all like that. That's always been 50s energy. Now that he's in a different space in his life when it comes to entertainment.

[Jermaine Dupri]

So it's the same trolling, just in a different.

[Maul]

It's the same energy, but he's just delivering it differently. So it's like. It's like. It's like a diss record, right?

[Jermaine Dupri]

It just.

[Maul]

Ain't no music behind it.

[Jermaine Dupri]

It's just eight episodes.

[Maul]

It's like, all right, yo, this is. These are the people. Look, These are the nasty guys that y' all support. I could have said this in the rap.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah.

[Maul]

50 could have said all of this in the rap. Yes. But he's probably looking at it like, bro, I don't even rap like that no more. I'm creating shows. Which is why him putting that bar that rightfully so everybody felt like was tailored towards TI in the intro song to the New Power. That was genius.

[Lenovo Advertiser]

Shit.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Very smart.

[Maul]

It was like, yo, all right, this is how I'm gonna respond. Like, get people talking. Y' all gonna hear this song every week, every episode, y' all gonna hear this song. Clever, right? But that's part of his brand now. His business is part of the show for sure. With the documentary coming off of the documentary he just did about the Diddy doc that was number one in how many countries? Like, it's about business for 50. Cause this is. At the end of the day. Yes. It's wild to hear certain things. Diss records. Sometimes people say things go. At the end of the day, it's all entertainment, though. Yeah. Now the doc is like.

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's the entertainment? Yeah, that's that.

[Maul]

We all gonna sit around and turn on our TV and watch it like we wanna be. Even though it's things we're gonna hear. Like, damn. Like, that's crazy. But it's still a form of entertainment. It's still a documentary that we're learning about things. Like, some of the things that are being said may be a little funny. It might be some jokes in there. But it's like, at the end of the day, this is all Entertainment. But this is 50s. This is the area that he's in now.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I never thought that hip hop would take it this far,

[Maul]

but is it crazy really, though? Like, this is who he. Now, if this is the first time 50 ever did a documentary or ever did anything like, in that lane with. With television, then it would be like, yo, what he doing? Like, but he's been in television version

[Rory]

of the Beef dvd.

[Maul]

Yeah. So he's been in the. He's been in television for how many years now? He's. He's produced how many shows and things. Like, so this is part of his, you know, the way he can choose to respond there. I don't think it's anything crazy about that.

[Rory]

Which side are y' all on with. With the Diddy part? And now to be the TI Thing, that he wouldn't have done these docs had he not had an issue with those people. Where do y' all land on? I don't wanna say morally, but how that. How that looks.

[Maul]

Okay, I understand that, like, if he didn't have an issue with Diddy or if he didn't have this latest thing with TI Maybe he wouldn't have gotten. But, I mean. Yeah, that's the way he chooses to respond now. Yeah.

[Rory]

I mean, we Briefly talked about it with the Diddy one, like, yeah. Do I think that 50 did that to spite Diddy based off their history and his baby mother this and that? Yes. But I do think the information that was in that, in that entire series should have been out there. Like, I'm glad that info is out there. Now, about Puff. Was it done based off nasty intentions from 50? Sure. But I think the world needs to know these things about some of our biggest entertainers.

[Jermaine Dupri]

A fucking documentary would come out every day.

[Rory]

Fair.

[Jermaine Dupri]

So game is nasty.

[Rory]

I agree.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Niggas is super nasty across the board for years. So it only sees the light of day when you have, you know, saying when you have a running. When you have an issue with a person. Cause then that makes you responsible in some regard. Because if you have this information, whether you got an issue with that person or not, if you have this information and a platform to get it out there and the means to do it, then why not do it for the greater good? Why not? But see, I think.

[Maul]

I think 50, just because he's in television, I think people through back channels reach out and say, hey, somebody has this TI documentary that they put together. Yeah, 50 is just executive producing. They're putting money behind it and putting it on a platform.

[Rory]

And that's what I think happened with the Diddy one too. I don't think so. They started from scratch. The director works for Puff.

[Jermaine Dupri]

At one point, nobody said, I got the Harvey Weinstein joint cooked up. You want to get behind it Pose.

[Rory]

Yeah. Usually they would call Harvey. They didn't have anyone call.

[Maul]

Right. I don't think those people reached out to 50 now when it's rappers, right? And then you have somebody that's already in the. The world of television, like 50 is. And then somebody says, yo, you know, they got a little beef right now. It's like, oh, well, let's hit him up and see if he'll. And 50's like, hell, yeah, put the money. And Diddy shot all of this. This footage. The camera guy, like, he was like, wait, I don't have to shoot nothing but a couple interviews in that. Oh, this is a layup. So you know what I'm saying? So I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, it's like, this is docu. This is stuff that is already being done. Like, 50 is just coming in the tail end of it. Like, okay, I'll put some money behind it, put executive producer credit on it, and let's put it out.

[Rory]

And it's funny. You Bring that up, because this was a couple years ago. A very, very, very big publication reached out to me based off some stuff we said on our podcast about an entertainer. And they wanted a quote. And it appeared like they had an entire article ready to go about some of the sexual misconducts of this person. And I never heard anything again. And every now and then I'd be like, damn, it's been like almost three years since they had this entire big publication, had this entire thing ready to go, and it never came out. So to your point, I do think there are a lot of people sitting around with ready to go articles, documentaries, all of that, just waiting for the right time to capitalize with the most amount of money. Like, hey, I see what's going on over here. Just let you know this is already done. We can get this out in two weeks. So, yeah, I think there's a lot of people that have docs waiting on them.

[Maul]

Yeah, I'm not mad at 50 for executive producing these. I mean, at the end of the

[Jermaine Dupri]

day, it's the business that he's in now. It's just as a hip hop fan, as an emcee and a hip hop fan, it's a different route. It's not a route that I thought we would see artists taking, you know what I'm saying? But, yeah, I guess it's the evolution of the diss song.

[Maul]

It's the evolution of 50, though. Yeah. Right. He's not just an emcee, he's not just a rapper anymore. He's an executive producer in television and film. He's an actor. He's, you know, he's a lot of things. It's not just. This ain't just Boo Boo just going in the booth rapping. This is not that. And 50 probably look at it like he's too old to probably still be trying to really rap like that.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Unless he got a TV show.

[Maul]

Unless you got.

[Jermaine Dupri]

But then he gonna give you the intro.

[Maul]

Yeah, that's part of his business. Yeah, but we not mad at that. Like, he's giving us classic intros to those, to those, to those. To those shows. So it's like, if that's the way he chooses to respond and do his business now, which is the business that he's in. Listen, man, you gotta respect it.

[Rory]

And am I crazy to say it is kind of the natural evolution from the DVD era, where Recipe Shorty Low is walking through TI's projects and asking where he's at. Like, is this just the evolution of when rappers were beefing they do diss records, then they do something on a DVD or on YouTube. We go to their neighborhood. Like. Like, this is kind of the natural evolution.

[Maul]

Same of that.

[Jermaine Dupri]

So now what if all of our favorite rappers or upcoming rappers start doing documentaries? Like, everybody that got a problem. Like, if Kendrick and Drake was it. Was it rap songs? If it was documentaries, that's wild, bro.

[Maul]

Yeah, but it's wild because it would be wild, because we've never seen a documentary from those guys. Like, if that was the first documentary, it's like, what are they doing?

[Jermaine Dupri]

But now the precedent is there. So now the door is open for people to do that. If it's the evolution of what the

[Maul]

DVD is, it's another lane of entertainment. Like when Jay did Summer Summer Jam, and he had the pictures of Prodigy, right? It's like, oh, that was the first time a lot of people saw those pictures. Right, right, right. So now let's just put a documentary. Let's interview the ballet teacher.

[Jermaine Dupri]

That was his aunt. That was Prodigy's on. Don't do that.

[Maul]

I'm just saying. Yeah, no, 100%. But I'm just saying. But a. Imagine if Jay went that route, though. Like, we're gonna go and sit. It's like, it's still in. It's funny. Let's laugh. But it's like, what's wrong with a kid? You know? I don't know how proud. He's maybe six, seven years old. Yes. In dance class. Like, what's wrong with that?

[Jermaine Dupri]

Good, man. Now, if the arts is good.

[Maul]

If he left. If he left the infamous video set and then went to go to ballet, then it's like, yo, what Pete doing?

[Rory]

Like, you know, I think he's showing his range.

[Maul]

Yeah. Like, all right, now that. That's kind of like. But as a 6, 7, 8 year old, it's like, come on.

[Jermaine Dupri]

But it was shock value, and it was a chink right. In the armor. Right. It did something to his credibility, the street dude. Cause the street dudes I know never took ballet, right? So as a street dude, as you know what I'm saying? I ain't super, nigga. I get shot, stabbed. You was in the. You know what I mean? In the dance shoes. We look at you in a different light.

[Maul]

But it's so crazy. Cause it's like, at six years, why would you look at that in a different light?

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's what it. That's like. I had a choice.

[Maul]

I had a choice at 6 years old to tell my mom, I'm not going to dance with Also, why we

[Rory]

don't care about facts. He put up the said, I got the. Your ballerina. I got the pictures. I seen you. He put the photo up. He's not dressed as a ballerina.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Definitely not.

[Rory]

He's dressed as Michael Jackson.

[Ryan Seacrest]

That is true.

[Rory]

There's not a ballerina in sight. He's literally dressed like Michael Jackson. And we all were like, yo, you're a ballerina. It's like the what?

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's a good point.

[Maul]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Jermaine Dupri]

That was Halloween.

[Maul]

Like, that was Halloween.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Talking about, yo, that was Halloween Family. That's crazy. You ain't like Thriller.

[Maul]

Yo, that was Halloween. What you expected me? I was Michael Jackson for Halloween.

[Rory]

I'm sure ho was Michael Jackson.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Definitely Michael Jackson for Halloween. Everybody was at one point was two Michael Jackson. He probably was Jackson five Mike and Beat It Mike.

[Maul]

You know what I mean? Two different albums.

[Rory]

Yeah, well. Yeah, we'll see where this goes. Mall Boost Mobile is proving that you don't have to overpay for great wireless. I don't know why you do that to yourself.

[Maul]

I do do that as.

[Rory]

As a friend.

[Maul]

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[Rory]

This is an intervention to tell you you don't need to do that anymore.

[Maul]

Help me.

[Rory]

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[Maul]

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[Daniel Cormier]

This is Daniel Cormier from the Daniel Cormier Show. This podcast is sponsored by Total Wireless, the official wireless partner of ufc. All UFC fighters know power doesn't wait in the octagon or outside of it, you either make the move or you miss the moment. That's why you need a network that's as powerful as you are. With Total Wireless, you get unlimited 5G data keeping you in on all the action from the walkouts to the knockouts. You'll never miss a moment. That's coverage that you can count on for every single round. So with the moment happens, you're not catching up. You're already there. Now that that's a total power move. In the ufc, power isn't given, it's taken. So make your total power move today. Visit totalwireless.com or stop by your neighborhood. Total Wireless Store 5G access requires a 5G capable device in a 5G service area. Monthly rates on the Total Base 5G Unlimited plan for new subscribers applies only to the monthly rate for your plan. Additional terms apply. See website for details.

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[Rory]

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[Rory]

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[Rory]

I want to say we were completely wrong about the Jack Harlow announcement.

[Maul]

It's a song.

[Rory]

No, the album is coming out tonight. Tonight?

[Maul]

Well, it's out now when they're hitting this.

[Rory]

But we thought we were getting like three singles before this entire thing. We got no music. Nine songs. I'm kind of shocked.

[Maul]

Jack, back to the short albums.

[Rory]

But after three years of just like one or two records, no real single. That's not really how Jack's formula has been in the past five to seven years. That's risky.

[Maul]

Risky or just a different approach? Why is it risky? Why do you say risky?

[Rory]

A different approach is always risky when.

[Maul]

Yeah, I guess. I guess it's something different for your audience. Something that they're not used to you doing. So it's risky, but I think that we just spoke about it. Nine songs. I kind of like that though. I kind of like Jack just giving us that. Nine songs. I don't know what this sounds like. I love the video he gave us. Was that last year when he was walking through Manhattan like Sinead o'? Connor? Yeah, like the Sinead o'. Connor.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Are any of those songs that he dropped those Lucy's on the track listing? Is the song titles out there?

[Rory]

Yeah, we have the track list up. It appears that none of the records that came out, not even the Just Us Doja Cat single is on this. So nine brand new songs off the whim. Why I say this is risky? Because if you go with. With Come Home the Kids Miss you, which did 113 again. I'm not a numbers person. I don't give a fuck if the music is good. The music's good. I don't care. I'm just saying how risky it can be.

[Jermaine Dupri]

But you pulled up the numbers because

[Rory]

Jack Harlow is an artist that has entered that world when you're. When you're making records like Nail Tech. Even if that wasn't Jack's purpose when he went in the studio, he's now entered the world where numbers do matter when you're making records like that. And I thought it was actually kind of great that he put out Paul's Jackman right after Come Home the Kids Miss yous. Cause he was getting put in that TikTok teeny bopper rapper shit, and he's like, nah, I rap for real.

[Maul]

Right.

[Rory]

And that was cool that it sold 34,000, which is great, but not coming off 113. But it was a mixtape. I felt like it was like, let me just throw this out. No promotion whatsoever.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I didn't know. I mean, again, not that it matters. I didn't know that it didn't do.

[Rory]

No, it didn't have any singles. It was similar to just putting out something like that. But it felt like one of those, hey, just a reminder, I could rap. It was all chipmunk soul samples. Like. I think it was trying to win back crowds like me. That was like. I remember when you used to like rap rap.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah, it was joints on it.

[Rory]

No, I like Jackman a lot. I hated the title, but, you know, Wow.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I would never say it.

[Rory]

It's a wild title. So after Come Home the Kids Miss yous, which is what, three, four years ago?

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I think you being in the A list, rap, that category, it's kind of crazy to just put out a nine track with no single.

[Jermaine Dupri]

But he put out like a couple of Lucy, so does that not start the rollout?

[Rory]

It did, but it like when he did what Maul was talking about to set you free and tranquility stuff when he was in the city, then I thought when he put out just us with Doja Cat, like, oh, all right, we're starting.

[Jermaine Dupri]

We're starting the actual rollout and that.

[Rory]

I really. With that record. But it was still closer to the nail tech stuff. I'm like, all right. The label's like, hey, guy, we know you like to rap, but come on, let's sell some units. That was. What year did that doja catch? That was 2025.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah, about a year ago.

[Rory]

That was a. That didn't last long enough to then go into an album. This is a completely different project. So I think it's. It's risky. I'm excited. I'm excited because it is this rollout. And maybe it's nothing like, come home, the kids miss you, but we'll see.

[Jermaine Dupri]

We've seen this done, though. We've seen, like the pre album rollout. Extensive. And we've seen the post album rollout. Sometimes you gotta factor in, like, what's gonna be more beneficial. Is it really, like, setting it up and then it drops and you do a little bit and then you go on the road. Or is it like drop the music, see what people gravitating towards, and then do your rollout while the music is out. So now every time somebody discovers a new conversation or what have you, they go right to it. And now you renting up, you running up the streams.

[Rory]

I think post these days is way, way, way more important. But with artists like Jack, artists like Bruno Mars on this last project that really didn't know no pre shit, no real, like one single that was two weeks away from the project, you see the difference. And numbers matter with those types of artists now, like someone like Dochi Host promo was so important to her because she was still on the come up. And then tde locked in. Like, not everyone knows this girl. So let's put something out and then work the records that are on this project. That's the best strategy with artists like that. But you need both. When you're someone like Jack Harlow.

[Maul]

I think Jack. I think this is an interesting position for Jack, because I think this project, based on what it sounds like, it's gonna tell us which direction they really trying to go. With Jack, is he rap? Is he more pop star? Like, what are y'? All? Where is he going? Because when you have a song with doja, not everybody can get a doja feature, right? We have one of the biggest songs on one of your projects with Drake, and then you have, you know what I'm saying, success, like you said, with nail tech and those type of songs.

[Rory]

And your feature with Drake ends with him saying, jack is the next one up.

[Maul]

Yeah, but so now this project, nine songs. What does this sound like? Is this rap rap? Is this more rap pop you singing, Is it more melodic? Is it more like, I think this project is important for Jackson, his sound, because it's like we still don't know which route Jack hall or with, like, we don't know where we place him

[Jermaine Dupri]

yet or where they allowing him to go, you know what I'm saying? Like, because there's so much Paul's riding on it, you know what I'm saying? Like, you got. We know what Atlantic does, you know what I'm saying? You got Jen. Now, obviously they got. They say in it, obviously, those guys know how to make incredible records and make history. So it's like. Or does Jack finally have the freedom to do whatever he wants to do on this project? You know what I'm saying? Like, we really got to listen to the music and see. Cause it really, you know, What I'm saying, it's like the triple stance. It could go in any direction.

[Rory]

Yeah, yeah. Cause I mean, even with Jen now, like, they didn't. They didn't sign Jack when he was making music like nail tech, like, the sweet action, that was just Jack rapping. To me, I feel like Jack is more Paul's Jackman than he is the nail tech stuff.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I agree.

[Rory]

That's where I'm on. Mall side of, like, this is gonna be kind of the defining fork in the road for you. Of. Do you want to follow the. You're the next up, darling rapper, or do you want to just keep rapping? And with no rollout, though, makes me feel like Jack is like, dog, I don't really want to do that other shit, just rapping. Like, I. I think I can make

[Jermaine Dupri]

a nice career for a rapper, for a guy who can rap, you know what I'm saying? Like, we've seen early on his music, his YouTube videos, etc, for a guy who could really rap. When they start saying, yo, you rapping like Drake or you Drake Light, you know what I'm saying? That, like, does something to your ego. That's like, I'm. I get busy. Not to say that Drake don't get busy, but we know what that means when they say that, that connotation. So, yeah, he might be rebelling. He might be bugging against the system. Like, nah, let me just rap. You know what I'm saying?

[Rory]

Because I think. I mean, it's incredible and deserved that. He does like Barclays center, but I'm sure he probably got a little bit of the Steve Lacy feeling when he was going to his shows on that last tour of, like, this is a lot of TikTok kids. This is not really who I set out to rap for, because I don't think Jack is that. I don't think he's just chasing fame or whatever new record. I think he really just loves to rape, so maybe he's making that decision. I saw who was showing up to my shows, and of course my core was there. But you can't just have a core sellout Barclays center, unless you're fucking J. Cole. But I'm sure he looked at that crowd and was like, ooh, it's a lot of TikTok children in here, and I can't sustain that for the rest of my career.

[Maul]

It's gonna be tough for Jack, though, like, if we being honest, it's gonna be tough, bro.

[Rory]

Why? Because.

[Maul]

Let's just. All right. When you a white rapper, Yep.

[Tamara]

Thank you, bro.

[Maul]

It's only. It's like, bro, I don't. You can't come in here and try to. Like. Eminem could rap, but he was on TRL a lot, right?

[Rory]

Yeah. No, Eminem was a pop star.

[Maul]

So this is what I'm saying. So Jack can't fight. He can't buck against the system.

[Rory]

You gotta go pop. But Jack did something that I don't think any white rapper has ever done. Correct me wrong. Coming off the cuff. I don't think I've ever heard a white rapper play at the club, play at a kickback, play at a party. Jack Harlow is the only white rapper I know that I could throw on around a bunch of girls.

[Maul]

Is he more Mac Miller?

[Rory]

Mack with a certain type of chick that I would particularly like to hang out with? Would definitely fuck with Mack if I threw it on in the car. I'm saying, if I go with the IG baddies, if I'm on a boat in Miami, I've never heard a white rapper play the way Lil Baby plays at a spot. I've never seen a white rapper do that.

[Maul]

Interesting.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah, that's a point. That's the point I've never thought about.

[Rory]

Of course, there's women that like other white rappers.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I'm not saying that, but.

[Rory]

No, but if you're at.

[Maul]

It's the music. Yeah.

[Rory]

Nail tech, strip clubs, like, everything.

[Maul]

Was it the First Class was directed.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah, First Class.

[Maul]

Those are pop records.

[Rory]

They're sampling pop records.

[Maul]

Yeah. So that's what I'm saying. It's like, he gotta go pop. Maybe he the pop. Larry June. I don't know. Yeah.

[Rory]

That's such a random. What's funny?

[Maul]

No, I'm saying, like, women like Larry.

[Rory]

Women love Larry.

[Maul]

They listen to Larry June. They like Larry June. They like his style. You know what I'm saying? It's like, okay, Larry, he got some bars. But Larry is more cool. He a talker. I don't really look at Larry Jr. Bar you down, right? He gonna just talk fly shit. He gonna talk shit on every song.

[Jermaine Dupri]

He gonna sound good.

[Maul]

He gonna sound cool. He gonna look cool. I don't know if Jack wanna be that. If he want to be Mac Miller, if he want to be Drake. If he want to be.

[Rory]

I mean, I think he tried with Come Home, the Kids Miss you to capitalize on the moment he had with the two big singles and still try to make music that he liked. Like, he brought Pharrell on and tried to do his Pharrell shit. Like he tried to find a good balance, and I think he got frustrated. And then Pauls gave us Jackman right after, like, nope, let me go back to Soul Sample Chipmunk shit. I can't keep doing this. Yeah.

[Jermaine Dupri]

But especially being able to do that project, it might be more pressure for him to come back. Like, you can't do that two times in a row. You know what I'm saying? Like, we need. Cause we know what he's signed to. We know what they on over there. You know what I'm saying? They like, yo, we need the ring to register. We need especially. You are one of our marquee acts, you know what I'm saying? You can't just do a vanity project back to back to back. Because to the point of him being a white rapper, that means the door is always open to certain things that other artists is not gonna get. The opportunities is there to do shit that other artists not gonna get. They not gonna let you waste that. That back to back to back.

[Maul]

The guy, he had the movie look where White Men Can't Jump too.

[Rory]

And he was with Ben and Matt Damon, and I forgot the name of the movie. It was a great movie, though. I mean, he died in the first time.

[Maul]

This is what I'm saying.

[Rory]

It's like he's still. He was still acting with Ben and Matt.

[Maul]

Big deal.

[Rory]

That's a. That's a thing. So listen, the Just Us Doa Cat record is more in the lane of nail tech in first class. So I was like, oh, yeah, Atlantic's not letting him. So to me, this is me just giving complete conspiracies. I think, because this came out March 21, 2025.

[Jermaine Dupri]

So literally a year.

[Rory]

So a year.

[Maul]

I think he was beefing with Atlanta.

[Rory]

You guys are trying to keep me in this fucking lane. I don't want to do this shit anymore. Because the Doja Cat record did great, but it didn't stick like first class or Nail Tech.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Well, you know, I mean.

[Rory]

And I think he was probably like,

[Jermaine Dupri]

c. It's work that goes along with that for sure. If the artist is not willing to do it because the record was a record that they could have made, Go. Yeah, but if the artist is not willing to do it, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's not going to go. But so far. But they shot a video.

[Rory]

It was a great video, too.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah. He was at least into it in. In that much. In that regard.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Maul]

I'm.

[Rory]

Yeah, I'm curious. Very, very curious where. Where this album is Going to go.

[Maul]

Yeah. I about to say. I. I cuz I like Jack with Jack, but what this sound like? I'm mad Drama didn't send us the. The album before it came out. But like, I want to know what this sound like.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah, let me call Lake, man.

[Maul]

This is. This is all right, Jack, you come on and you give us these nine tracks and you on here giving us pop songs. That. That's where you at. That's where we gonna place you.

[Rory]

I also say, because I do think Jack Harlow is. Is a great artist. That also maybe tells me he's very

[Maul]

confident to put out nine songs.

[Rory]

I got nine songs, no rollout. Here you go. I'm extremely confident in this album.

[Maul]

And there's no. He didn't. Well, not. We don't know if there are any features, but he didn't listen. He just listening nine songs. No, no. What if he ain't got no features?

[Rory]

I mean, listen, what if he produced

[Jermaine Dupri]

it all herself and no features?

[Maul]

No, no, no, no. I don't want that. I don't want that. I don't want that.

[Rory]

I don't want to be embarrassed. Would lose her mind. Only one artist is allowed to do that.

[Maul]

Listen, stop producing your own songs, dog.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Stop.

[Maul]

Like, I get it. That's a skill set. But it's okay to like where we spoke to. It's okay to pull other producers in the room and get some. Yeah, it's okay. There's nothing wrong with that, man.

[Rory]

He heard a feature in the studio of a Jack Harlow song that I don't think is gonna be on there due to timing.

[Maul]

I don't remember that. That was what, three years ago?

[Rory]

There could only be one artist I'm talking about.

[Maul]

Okay.

[Rory]

Yeah, I don't think that's on there.

[Maul]

That's not on there, Rory. Yeah, definitely not on there.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I ain't hear it. But the confidence that Mo responded with.

[Rory]

Oh, I don't think it's on there either.

[Maul]

I believe it, Ma.

[Tamara]

Who do you. When you think outside of Kanye, obviously, who do you think of when you think of rappers who are actually able to produce their own records and do a good job?

[Maul]

And do a good job.

[Tamara]

And do a good job.

[Maul]

Yeah, none really.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I like rock, Marci. I like rock Marciano over his production.

[Maul]

Yeah, rock. But that's. Rock is not. I don't ever want to hear him work with all the producers. Cause it's going to change who rock is. We can go alchemist, but that's kind of. That's one and the same. That Sound is so similar, right? It's that boom bap, real raw, like out of the pocket flow. But like, I don't want to hear rock go get like a Swiss beat. No, you see what I'm saying? Like, I don't want that. Don't do that. Like, keep it there. Maybe Conductor. Maybe like you said Al Conductor, those guys.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Maybe.

[Maul]

But we can't get too far away from the rock sound. But yes, you're right. Rock is definitely his last project. Incredible. Like with him and Errol and all of them did like, incredible project outside

[Rory]

of said Southern playlisted, Cadillac, funky music. Outkast produced Big Boy and 3 Stacks produced every album.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I mean, that's Dungeon Family, though.

[Rory]

No, no, I'm saying they did Dungeon Family on the first one. Go check the credits. After that it was Big Boy and Andre. I mean, they, they admittedly said the Dungeon taught us how to produce. Like we look at.

[Maul]

Really. I never knew that. I always thought they had outside production.

[Rory]

I mean, you always thought it was Rico and. But that was for the first project. And then from there outkast kind of did their, their, their own thing. I think David Banner is one. I think Pimp C is one. I think there's a lot of rapper producers that maybe don't flaunt it the way Kanye did. So we don't realize that they're making all of their beats.

[Maul]

Kanye, obviously, Kanye aside.

[Tamara]

Yeah, yes, I said Kanye aside.

[Maul]

Obviously the best to do it. But, but like, but like Tory said, rock is probably one that gets it right.

[Jermaine Dupri]

And I'm thinking about, right, like artists in the now, obviously. I could list a bunch of like, like classic producer MCs.

[Maul]

Yeah, Rock, he's a legacy, but he's.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah, yeah, he's one of those. You know what I'm saying? Like, he's somebody that's still super relevant right now. Put out some, you know, the merch go crazy, the pop ups go crazy. So he's one of those guys.

[Maul]

That's all his aesthetics.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah. Oh, he's just a fly.

[Maul]

I ain't gonna lie. I. I don't want to hear Jack do it though.

[Jermaine Dupri]

No, no, Yeah.

[Maul]

I don't want.

[Rory]

But I don't think anyone's thinking.

[Maul]

I'm just saying like, because that's how we started.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I was just being an asshole about it.

[Rory]

It.

[Jermaine Dupri]

You know what I'm saying? Because you said no features. But there's very few Q Tip, right.

[Maul]

Legacy.

[Jermaine Dupri]

If he's putting music out, I mean.

[Rory]

Yeah. As far as like the, the Mac Miller Is definitely up there. Latter half of max career. He was producing everything himself, for sure.

[Maul]

Russ also does.

[Rory]

Russ for sure is up.

[Maul]

Oh, yeah, yeah, Russ. Russ does a great job.

[Rory]

But then also Russ is one that I like when he does his chomp projects and just gets bank and everybody else do that. But yeah, he's. There's a lot more than I think people realize.

[Maul]

Yeah, they are.

[Rory]

They just. Again, don't flaunt it. And it's weird to put your own tag on your own song where you're also rapping. Like, I should just be a song

[Jermaine Dupri]

and say, this a nitty beat.

[Rory]

Yeah, you're speaking fourth person.

[Jermaine Dupri]

We know it's you.

[Maul]

Another one that does a good job and people not gonna give him the credit because, you know, they probably don't look at him as that good of a rapper. Hit boy.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Hit Boy, you're right. Now, that's the one. That's the answer right there. And a lot of his alchemist, honestly, the last project they put out, but both of them rap really good over their own beats.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Jermaine Dupri]

You know what I'm saying? Like, they. They don't.

[Maul]

They don't give away a lot of their beats. Is kind of like, I know other rappers here. Like, I would have.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I would've went crazy on that. Right, right.

[Maul]

Exactly.

[Rory]

All right. Y' all might think I'm nuts, but I don't think JD is a bad rapper.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Jermaine Dupri.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Maul]

No, he's a rap.

[Jermaine Dupri]

JD.

[Maul]

Rap.

[Rory]

JD's a. I kind of wish he rapped more.

[Maul]

Okay. That was what I was saying. He just don't rap a lot. Like, he doesn't rap as much as he used.

[Jermaine Dupri]

But he talked about it, like, when he was doing the. The Magic City, like, promo, he was saying, like, for that first album, they made him rap because he was doing so much production and writing, and he was. He had so much of everything else. They was like, the only thing left for you to do is put out your own album, and that's how that happened. But he said he had no intentions on being a rapper.

[Maul]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jermaine Dupri]

You know what I'm saying?

[Rory]

Oh, I got w there. Producer rapper.

[Maul]

Yeah. He don't rap a lot, though.

[Rory]

I mean, but if for what he's put out between Carnival and everything with the Fujis, I'm. I'm still putting him there. Big Crit, I think. Is there more on the underground side?

[Maul]

Right.

[Rory]

Manny Fresh, if he rap more, he was right, though. Like, with Big Timers and stuff, I think he was there.

[Jermaine Dupri]

He's the hook master, too.

[Rory]

We also left out probably the most important one, Havoc have. Yeah. Havoc is probably top five best rapper producer of all time, for sure.

[Maul]

Sure.

[Jermaine Dupri]

But then I'm saying, like, if we going into classic, then. Then I'm throwing Large professor in there. Then I'm throwing. You know, I mean, EPMD produced all of these shit, you know what I'm saying? I'm throwing them in there, you know what I'm saying? Like, if we go classic, then I think it's a lot more. And we. You rock him.

[Rory]

Yeah, true.

[Jermaine Dupri]

You know what I'm saying?

[Rory]

So I guess for Modern, when we say Tyler would be number one.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yes.

[Maul]

But is he producing?

[Rory]

Yes, yes.

[Maul]

A lot of that shit himself.

[Rory]

Yeah. He literally put on the COVID of Igor. This was written, created, mixed, engineered.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Like he prints psychopath lunatic with it. He's number one, hands down.

[Maul]

He might be. He might be right behind Kanye, maybe.

[Rory]

I think as far as hands on, I'm not saying what's better or what's worse. I want to make that very, very clear. If you go through their discographies and look at who did the most for their projects, Tyler's probably been more hands on than Kanye west in the latter part of his career.

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

But I think I'm fine with Kanye bringing in other people. I think that's part of producing.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I mean, Tyler really sits there. He does. He does. He's very. Tyler's such a musical person, you know what I'm saying? Like, he studies music. He's borderline. I would call him a genius. He's a musical genius because he's a student of the game. He's a savant, you know what I'm. And he understands collaboration. He understands instrumentation, you know what I'm saying? Like, he knows what to do for his records. To take them where they need to go or who to bring in. To take them where they need to go. And I think the versatility is really what speaks to me. Cause from Flower Boy to Igor to Cherry Bomb to Colt, you know what I'm saying? Like, all of these different records have a different sonic landscape to them, too. And he's a different. He's embodying a different character each time, you know what I'm saying? And every time. Yeah, he just give you fire. Yeah, he just gave you fire. Tyler is definitely.

[Rory]

And then.

[Jermaine Dupri]

And then don't. Don't go to the show because then the show is crazy. That's a whole other production. He take this shit serious?

[Rory]

Oh, yeah. No, he's. He's He's a Kanye. For real, baby.

[Maul]

For sure.

[Jermaine Dupri]

For sure.

[Rory]

And I'm not just saying this because Baby D is here. I do think J. Cole gets too much flack. His beats are not as bad as people make them out to be. No, we just prefer that level of rapping with that level of producer, because his level of rapping, his level of production are not the same. But he's up here.

[Jermaine Dupri]

We just wonder what it could be.

[Rory]

But Cole's beats are not as bad as people say they are.

[Maul]

Nah. But it's just that, like you said, for his skill set, it's like, all right, fam, could we not. Can we just go get, like, Alchemist or Conductor or Pharrell or, like, can we go. You know what I mean? Like, can we just take. Can we take this to another level? Like, that's all.

[Rory]

While we stay in rap nerd world. I did see a list on Twitter that said the top 10 MCs without a classic solo album. Album started at 1 Grand Puba 2. Method Man, Jadicus, Fab Black Thought, Inspector Deck, Ludacris, Busta Rhymes. Put in parentheses. Debatable. Andre 3000 cannabis.

[Maul]

Wait, the top 10 MCs. Great MCs without a classic. Y' all just.

[Rory]

You just.

[Maul]

Y' all just said I was right next to you in the barbershop.

[Rory]

I know.

[Maul]

We.

[Rory]

I think we're the reason for this list, by the way.

[Maul]

Just barbershop Jada Kid.

[Rory]

No, this is at Math.

[Maul]

Him and J. Cole go to the same barbershop. I thought I sat there and said. And other guys in the shop echoed the sentiments that Jadakiss has three classic albums.

[Rory]

Did they say three or two?

[Maul]

They said three.

[Rory]

What was the.

[Maul]

I think I saw the clip, and they said three. Somebody said three. And I was like, three is a stretch. Okay.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Kiss the Game Goodbye.

[Maul]

What?

[Rory]

The last kiss of death. And to me would be Kiss of Death or Kiss the Game Goodbye, his first and second album.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah, I think the first two. I think the first two. You know what I think?

[Maul]

You think Jadakiss's first two albums are classics.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I think. I think the first one more than anything, but I think that classic. Yeah.

[Tamara]

Small Fuck.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Here's the issue. Here's the issue. Let me just. Let me. Let me say this whole thing and then get y' all in. I think that the anticipation that we met with initially, it was so high. It was a hard bar to reach because we love him as an emcee and we love what he did with the locks. So we was expecting so much when we first when we heard the album. But if you go back and listen to the album, the albums don't be they deep. It's like kiss the game goodbye. It's tough.

[Maul]

That's my point though. I think there's a difference between classic and difference between good albums. It's hard to have a classic album.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I will put that album on and if I got a 50 minute drive, I'll put the album on and let it play and ride out to it.

[Maul]

I'm with you. Is it a classic album though or is it just a good album?

[Daniel Cormier]

Album.

[Maul]

That's the difference. And it's okay.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I think classic is test of time too. Like replay value. Like we're still going back to it because it's certain albums that came out around that time that you. I'm not listening to this shit. You not. You might play the single. You're not gonna sit and let the body of work play. And I think that certain times, certain albums, certain albums out the date, we call it instant classic out the gate. You know, this shit feel like it's gonna be timeless. I listen to this forever and then there's certain shit you go back to and you sleep. Damn, this shit really rocking. Like I think maybe we was too. I think Volume two was another one of those. You know what I'm saying? Or volume one. I think Volume one is another one of those where people just were so harsh on it. Like the way they. Yo, Sunshine. Sunshine is a tough record. B, we hated the video games.

[Maul]

It just was so different from what Jay was trying to do, what he had done already.

[Jermaine Dupri]

But it's a fucking great album.

[Maul]

Oh no, he still get. Yeah, no for sure. But that's what I'm saying. I just think that we get so caught up in just throwing out the word classic though.

[Rory]

Well, this is an honest question to ask you then. What is the worst classic album in your opinion? So I have a gauge to see if. If Kiss of Death is below or

[Jermaine Dupri]

above that is that it's an oxymoron.

[Rory]

Like it's an unfair question because of course we have the standards that we already know that these we know Illmatic is a classic. That goes without saying. No one's going to sit there and argue that what is what would be that. But lower than Illmatic, like what's the worst classic album?

[Maul]

You know what I. And, and, and again we just had this conversation with the fellows at the shop and you know, and I understood the room. It was older guys in there From a different era of hip hop. So I understood why they were saying what they were saying. But to say Jadakiss has two or three, however many albums they said that were classics, and then to say Drake has no classic albums. Oh, yeah, no, that's wild.

[Rory]

But you gotta know your audience.

[Maul]

Right? But you understand what I'm saying? It's just like, I can understand if that's not your preferred rapper, your preferred artist. There's no denying that Drake is one of the greatest recording artists of his generation. Of his era, for sure. Who has classic albums. So when somebody says, okay, this rapper has three, two or three classic albums, and this guy who has dominated music for 15 years has none. Yeah, and it's all subjective.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Of course.

[Maul]

That it's all subjective. The audience you're talking to, I get that. But some things are just like, what are we talking about?

[Rory]

But a barbershop in Brooklyn with 40 year olds. Yes, you're gonna get that. If you went to the Scarborough food court mall, you get everyone saying Drake has a classic.

[Maul]

But yeah, you going to Toronto to get it. I understand that, but I'm saying we

[Rory]

were in New York talking about Kiss,

[Maul]

but I understand that. I'm saying in just music, period, it's a lot of artists that I recognize as being crazy talented that got classic music. They're not. I wouldn't go see them. I wouldn't listen to them.

[Jermaine Dupri]

What's your taste?

[Maul]

But there's no doubt about it that this fucking artist is. I don't listen Beyonce. I probably don't have no Beyonce.

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's unfortunate.

[Maul]

I'll listen to it, right? I don't listen to Beyonce. Like, you will never hear me just play. Put on a Beyonce album. Put on the Beyonce song. Like, it just wouldn't happen that I'm not her audience. I'm not who she's making. That I recognize.

[Rory]

I recognize her incredible cowboy Carter on the way here.

[Jermaine Dupri]

No, I'm going to listen to Halo.

[Maul]

I recognize her incredible talent, but I'm not listening. Like, I'm not going back and playing Beyonce like what you listen to. Yo, I ain't gonna lie. I got that cowboy card in my.

[Rory]

Right.

[Maul]

You gonna be like, word. Like, that's what you.

[Jermaine Dupri]

But you know what it is? You know what the classic is? Vast majority, right? Even if there's pockets of people that don't like it, might be people that don't fuck with 50, but the vast majority of the population says Get Rich, Die Trying is a classic album, right? So I think it also leans to like what?

[Maul]

I don't think that's a classic.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Give Richard Die Trying is not a classic.

[Maul]

If you go back and listen, what's a classic? It's a great album.

[Tamara]

Rory, about the swing.

[Maul]

Because if you go back and listen to Give Richard Die Trying, it's a great album. And the impact. The impact is why I think people call it a classic. When they drop everything around 50 he's, you know, bulletproof vest.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Jermaine Dupri]

50 mania. Right.

[Maul]

I understand that. I'm saying when you go back and listen to it, it. The album. To me, mid. I wouldn't say that's a classic album.

[Jermaine Dupri]

You said it's mid.

[Tamara]

I was. I was speaking for ma.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Speak for yourself. What you think?

[Tamara]

I think that Get Richard I Trying is a classic album. But that's why.

[Maul]

Coming music or the impact.

[Rory]

Let's go through the music real quick. I'm not going to skip any record. I'm not going to do the highlights. I'm just going to read starts with what up gangs?

[Jermaine Dupri]

What?

[Rory]

The intro with two quarters falling.

[Maul]

Right.

[Rory]

What up?

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's clapping too. Like, who you hitting? Know what you about to get into? That's classic.

[Rory]

It's a six second and was like, yo, heard that.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Rory heard that.

[Maul]

Was like, all right. Is that 2/4 or is that a 50?

[Jermaine Dupri]

50.

[Rory]

No, it's. It's what Mayo put on his single artwork. It's 55 cents.

[Jermaine Dupri]

This guy's crazy.

[Rory]

What up, gangster Patiently waiting with Eminem Many men in the club High all the time Heat if I can't Bloodhound back down Pimp like my style is

[Jermaine Dupri]

crazy Crazy crazy

[Tamara]

Yes, it is.

[Maul]

I hate that song.

[Jermaine Dupri]

It's not my favorite song on the album. It's definitely not. It's definitely not. It's with. In comparison to the rest of the track listing. It's not my favorite.

[Rory]

Is it a Get a pass Pimp gets a pass.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I'm saying we playing. I'm playing. If I. If my. If I'm washing the dishes and the album is playing, I'm not running to dry my hand to skip that. That's gonna play.

[Tamara]

You can't say Pip Pimp isn't a classic because people's parents know that. So that was a huge song.

[Jermaine Dupri]

It was a ginormous record. It fits in the body. Body of work. Like. Yeah, Nah.

[Rory]

Like my style. 21 questions don't push me Gotta make it to heaven Bonus tracks. Wangster, you're not like me Life's on the line Just tell me what a classic album is.

[Jermaine Dupri]

You just read It.

[Rory]

I'm confused.

[Maul]

I don't think that. I think it's a really. I think it's a dope album.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I gotta hear your classic. What's your classic Drake, then I was gonna say.

[Tamara]

Because I. I was riding with you with the Drake thing, but if you saying that Drake has classic albums but Get Rich or Die Trying isn't a classic, then now I can't.

[Maul]

I think. I think Get Rich or Die Trying is an incredible album. I don't know if it's a classic, though. I would never. Sure.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Classic.

[Maul]

Like, my classic albums are like Thriller.

[Rory]

Okay, we talk about hip hop, but.

[Maul]

Okay, I'm just. Classic album comprehension is important. I didn't say classic rap. I didn't say classic R B album. We were talking about classic albums.

[Rory]

We talk about Kiss. I thought we talk about hip hop.

[Jermaine Dupri]

No, but.

[Maul]

But not. But away from that even. I was just saying classic albums. That's what. But that's part of the conversation of what I'm saying. Like, how can you say Jadakiss has two or three classic albums, but Drake doesn't? Because Drake isn't borrowing you down like Kiss. He doesn't have a classic album from all.

[Rory]

Thriller is the mark. Then everyone's fucked.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah, nobody got all this shit is

[Rory]

because, to be honest, the closest thing I saw in the early 2000s that hit, not like Thriller, obviously, but like a Thriller. That wave, when Get Rich or Die Trying came out, it took over the world.

[Maul]

That's why, even if you weren't even

[Rory]

a hip hop fan, it took over the world.

[Maul]

The impact was incredible.

[Jermaine Dupri]

But the music was there, too, because I get impact.

[Maul]

The music was. That's what I'm saying. I think it's a really. I think the album is a dope album. I don't know if that's a classic album, though. Okay, so it's a dope album.

[Tamara]

Let's go back to your point that you were making about classics being like, they have to affect everybody. Right. Like you said, you don't listen to Beyonce, but you're very much aware of her talent. What would you say Beyonce's classic album is? I want to hear this. Because you're not a Beyonce fan.

[Maul]

What was the one. Was it Lemonade?

[Tamara]

Okay.

[Rory]

Lemonade, to me, is a classic.

[Tamara]

As a Beyonce fan, I agree with you. So.

[Rory]

But that wouldn't be the one.

[Maul]

What was the other. Is it Dangerously In Love? Was that the name of one of the albums that was?

[Tamara]

Dangerously Lovely is the first song.

[Maul]

I think that's a classic album. I Think Dangerously Love is a classic album.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Maul]

I think Lemonade, Dangerously Love. And if I see the artwork, I could better point it out.

[Rory]

I know she has a few.

[Tamara]

So you're not a fan, obviously, of the music on Lemonade, but you're aware of the fact that it's a classic album. So you're able to.

[Maul]

When I say I don't listen to Beyonce, meaning like in. In my time in the crib or in the car, I'm not turning on Beyonce to listen to it like that. If Beyonce put an album out tonight, just like everybody else in the world I'm running to listen to.

[Tamara]

No, that makes sense.

[Maul]

You understand what I'm saying? I recognize her greatness. She's one of the greatest artists ever. When you come to live performance music vocally, she. She checks all of the boxes. She's a legendary artist. Like, I'm not, but I don't. That's not the music that I listen to on a daily basis. I don't listen to Beyonce on a daily basis, but I know she's one of the greatest artists ever. I'm not stupid. So that's what I'm saying. In that environment of being in the shop with older guys from New York City from a different time. I get it. But there's some things that are just unanimous, though, in conversation of music.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I think get Richard Di Trrying is.

[Tamara]

So then you can't take away from Get Rich or Die trying to.

[Maul]

No, no. I'm saying again, because I don't think

[Rory]

it's unanimous that Drake has a classic. I personally think he has more than one, but that's not a unanimous thing. The way Get Rich is to the world.

[Tamara]

So are we talking about.

[Rory]

I would have said 10 out of 10 people would have said Get Rich is a classic. Now I'm going to say 9 out of 10 because you're the first person I ever met.

[Jermaine Dupri]

It's a nine out of ten. It's a nine out of 10.

[Rory]

I think with Drake, you're going to get a mix.

[Maul]

Incredible album.

[Tamara]

So is it only a classic if the masses. If the masses acknowledge that it's a classic. Right. Because the album that I think is a. Is a classic Drake album will be different from what the mass.

[Maul]

Masses.

[Tamara]

Who would say he has one? The masses would pick Take Care. I would not pick Take Care. I don't think it has aged as well as Views has. Right.

[Rory]

And to me, Nothing Was the Same Is a classic in Drake's catalog?

[Tamara]

Yes.

[Rory]

Do you think Nothing was the same? It's a classic.

[Maul]

Me. Yeah.

[Rory]

He said, okay, what's better, pimp or worse behavior?

[Maul]

Worst behavior. I hate pimp. I don't know what you heard about worse than pimp.

[Tamara]

Might be the same song. I'm not gonna lie.

[Rory]

Word.

[Daniel Cormier]

No.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I don't know.

[Rory]

He is light gear years.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I'm going w worse. That's my.

[Rory]

305 to my city. Or pimp.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I played 305 to my city boy too.

[Maul]

Pimp is just not a good.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I would pick pimp over 305.

[Tamara]

Yeah, 305.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I like 305 to my city.

[Tamara]

I skipped 305.

[Maul]

Every time I did it, I did it.

[Rory]

I just, I just, I missed that time so much.

[Jermaine Dupri]

What a time, bro. What a time.

[Maul]

Yeah, I'm just not. I never.

[Rory]

What's your quintessential rap classics then? Just so we can get a gauge since Get Rich is not there. Because at that point. Yeah. I don't think you would ever argue Kiss has a classic album if you don't think Get Rich is right.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Cause I. When I went to that, that was like. I felt like that was a no brainer. You know what I'm saying? I think that was general consensus that everybody, you know, felt like that was a classic. So just to hear that. But there's.

[Maul]

But in our culture, and this is something we do a lot, we'll just say something is a classic because everybody else says it's a classic. Like a lot of people think Scarface is a classic. That movie is not a classic movie. That movie's actually terrible.

[Rory]

I don't think you're wrong. But with Get Rich, I don't think that's the case. That's all I'm saying.

[Maul]

Not saying that. I'm just saying in our culture, what

[Jermaine Dupri]

we do a lot a terrible. Say yo.

[Maul]

Nah, that's a classic.

[Jermaine Dupri]

A terrible. A terrible movie.

[Maul]

Movie.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Why? Storyline. The way it's shot. Like, what are you basing it on?

[Maul]

The storyline, the story. I mean, the acting was okay, but just the storyline terrible.

[Rory]

The acting.

[Maul]

No, I said it was okay, but it's. I mean, you got. You got two of the biggest actors of their time with Al Pacino and. What's her name? I forgot her name.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Michelle Pfeiffer.

[Maul]

Michelle Pfeiffer. But it's just that when you go back and look at it, you like, like this. This ain't no classic movie. But because so many people in our culture deemed it a classic. We see the poster. People got the poster in their house and the barbershops and we see the imagery of the movie so much. Right. We like. Nah, yeah, that's a no.

[Jermaine Dupri]

No. You can go back and poke holes in it. You know what I'm saying? I still think for what it worth. For what it's worth and what it did and the impact and all the things, like, there's definitely classic elements to it, but it's the greatest movie I ever seen in my life. No, like people make it out to be.

[Maul]

You could go to back.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Back and poke holes in it. But again, like, so there's also like impact and. And stay in power and replay value and all those things go into it. You know what I'm saying? But movies a little bit different than music in that.

[Maul]

It's hard. Why? Why is it different?

[Jermaine Dupri]

I think it's just different levels. Music is like writing what the vocals sound like and the production around it. You know what I'm saying? But like, you got the acting, you got the casting. You can have somebody who did a great job in the scene that had a terrible scene partner. So now. Now do you say Al Pacino did great, but we didn't with Manolo in this scene. Whereas when it's an album, for the most part, you.

[Daniel Cormier]

You.

[Jermaine Dupri]

You were responsible for carrying the weight of the project as the artist against the lead artist.

[Rory]

No, but they put that on the lead actor sometimes before they'll put on the director, just because the actors are more famous when they say that movie.

[Jermaine Dupri]

But if you're not in a scene

[Rory]

and it's like at the same time, that actor just showed up to do his scenes. He wasn't involved in the editing process, but if he did not direct, saying,

[Jermaine Dupri]

you're not going to take. They're not going to blame. Blame you for a bad scene if you're not in it, even if you're the lead actor.

[Rory]

All right, so Nas gets a lot of flack. Even though I disagree with it. It's. It's a narrative that's been going on. He picks bad beats, and they put that on Nas. He didn't produce it. He picked it.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Is Nomadic a classic?

[Maul]

Yeah.

[Rory]

If you picked the director, you. You picked that script.

[Maul]

I'm asking a question because I'm getting.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I'm just get. Let me just get in my position, because when I answer, I'm asking.

[Maul]

I'm asking.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Depending on how you answer, I'm gonna want to leave.

[Maul]

Is Illmatic Classic.

[Rory]

What's a classic then?

[Maul]

Okay, so. So Illmatic and Kiss of Death are. Are on the same level?

[Rory]

No, no, I think there's a spectrum of classics. That's why I asked what the worst

[Maul]

I thought classic was. Classic.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Tamara]

No, that doesn't mean they're on the same level. Because something.

[Maul]

They're not. So it's not a classic. It's a good album.

[Jermaine Dupri]

But that's like saying it's Thriller and Illmatic on the same level.

[Daniel Cormier]

They're not.

[Maul]

Well, from. From a rapper perspective and then from a pop star. Yeah.

[Public Investing Sponsor]

Yes.

[Maul]

I think it's the same. I think that a kid that was. However old Nas was, you got the

[Jermaine Dupri]

music and then you got the impact of it, and then you got the reach of the music. Illmatic is a classic to the community. You can't play it like you can play anything off a Thriller and it'll ring off.

[Maul]

I think Illmatic is a classic to the culture. Every MC after that. Dad was old enough to know when that album dropped and feel that. I think that Nas inspired every MC after that.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Maul]

To even try that was like the goal that became the soundtrack of your life. You moved through wherever you was at with that music in your head. Right. Okay. To me, that's a classic. I don't think people moved around with a Kiss album like the same way they moved around with Illmatic. I don't think so. Not saying Kiss and Kiss is an incredible mc, one of the greatest rappers ever, but I'm talking about the music. I don't think the music lived with us from his albums the way the music lived with us from Illmatic. The way the music lived was from reasonable.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I think the difference. I think the unfair thing to. When you compare things to Illmatic. My only caveat in that is that Illmatic changed hip hop music and albums because of the way that they went about the production of it. We had never seen an artist go hand pick and pluck producers from other camp. I'm gonna take the hottest guy out of Gangstar. I'm gonna take the producer out of Gangstar. I'm gonna take the producer out of Pete Rock and Seal. Smooth. I'm gonna take the producer from Main Source. We had never done that up until that Right Tribe was self contained. Main Source, Self contained, Bomb Squad, self contained. We had never seen that. So it changed the way people went about making their albums. So that in itself makes it impactful and game changing. You know what I'm saying? So it's unfair to compare certain albums to Illmatic because of what Elmatic did to change. It turned the tide in hip hop.

[Rory]

Yeah. Even Bad Boy being the Sellout version of that. Still mainly just used Hitman. That was the first time you got a list producer,

[Jermaine Dupri]

a production team, you know what I'm saying? Of different. All these different guys. Production team.

[Rory]

But where I also think it's unfair is the age gap as well. Because, yeah, people my age. Kiss of Death came out when I was 14. My age moved around with Kiss of Death probably the same way y' all moved around with Illmatic. I'm not saying that Kiss of Death is on the same level of Illmatic, but you also have to put that into consideration that hip hop is unlike any other genre where 10 years is 100 years.

[Maul]

Right.

[Rory]

Like, that's a huge gap between 94 and 2004 of listeners. Kiss of Death meant a lot to us. And yeah, we moved around like this was the soundtrack to life.

[Tamara]

And is at that point, is it fair to say that there's different pockets of everybody in different pockets is going to say that a different album is a classic? If you go down to certain parts of the south, they would never say that Illmatic is a classic, but somebody from their region that they grew up hearing. So we're never going to. Long story short, sure, we're never all gonna agree what a classic is. Depending on age, depending on demographic, depending on where you grew up. Like, everybody is going to have different classics sometimes.

[Maul]

No, but see, that's where I think. That's where I think the conversation is different. I think no matter where you from, a classic is a classic. No matter where you from, like, undeniable. A classic is undeniable. I don't care if you from the North, West Coast, East Coast, South. When we see Kevin Gates rapping Reasonable Doubt bars and he's from the south south, that's letting you know. Like, he. Like, we was listening to that. So that narrative of in the south, we wasn't listening. Cut that out. Cause was listening to that.

[Jermaine Dupri]

But people would tell you E40 and the click got classic albums.

[Tamara]

And you will fight against that.

[Jermaine Dupri]

And you fight against that.

[Rory]

I. I would. If someone in New York said 400 degrees juvenile is not a classic album, the south would lose their minds.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I played crazy. You know what I'm saying?

[Rory]

Like, but I mean, like, tomorrow's point. Yes. Like, I don't think think no matter where you go, I think people would say At Aliens is a classic album. Is a classic album. No matter where you're at. I think most people would say the Chronic Doggy style, those are classic projects. But I think that's a 90s thing. I think once we hit the 2000s, it just got so spread out. I'm not even saying when it got to the Internet yet. Hip hop just got so big pockets happen.

[Jermaine Dupri]

And I didn't got classics in the 2000s.

[Rory]

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, yeah, he's not the only one.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah, he's one of the.

[Rory]

Jeezy has a classic in the 2000s, I think in good kid Mad City during the the interludes they're talking about TM101 like and that's in Compton right up here. We thought TM101 was a classic out the gate for sure. I'm just saying as the years went the the term hip hop just got to too many.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Is the recession the classic is sidebar side.

[Rory]

No, I think it's a good album.

[Maul]

Okay.

[Rory]

I think it's the second best album the recession.

[Maul]

I don't know if that's a class.

[Jermaine Dupri]

No, no, that's my asking. I'm asking.

[Rory]

Probably the second best.

[Jermaine Dupri]

It's my second favorite at the TM101 for sure.

[Rory]

Sure. And then weirdly enough, I have TM103 as his third best album. I know that's very widely unpop unpopular but. Today's show is brought to you by a presenting sponsor. Hard Rock Bet, which is Florida's sports book March is here mall so you know the madness is going to take over. So angry college basketball so mad center stage. Every day we have games. I cannot wait. The temperature is rising, the shots are falling. And now it's time to hit the hardwood with Hard Rock bet. Sign up today and double your winnings on your first 10 bets. Max $50. That's right. Your winnings are doubled on your first 10 bets. So if you would've won a hundred bucks on your bet, make it 200 maul. That's how you start March.

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[Daniel Cormier]

This is Daniel Cormier from the Daniel Cormier Show. This podcast is sponsored by Total Wireless, the official wireless partner of ufc. All UFC fighters know power doesn't wait in the octagon or outside of it. You either make the move or you miss the moment. That's why you need a network that's as powerful as you are. With Total Wireless you get unlimited 5G data keeping you in on all the action from the walkouts to the knockouts. You'll never miss a moment. That's coverage that you can count on for every single round. So when the moment happens, you're not catching up. You're already there. Now that that's a total power move. In the ufc, power isn't given, it's taken. So make your total power move today. Visit totalwireless.com or stop by your neighborhood. Total Wireless Store 5G access requires a 5G capable device in a 5G service area. Monthly rates on the Total Base 5G Unlimited plan for new subscribers applies only to the monthly rate for your plan. Additional terms apply. See website for details.

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[Rory]

No.

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A toaster. No A hamster in a jetpack.

[Tamara]

Fun.

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[Rory]

Good boy.

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[Rory]

Visit Wells Fargo.com autographjourney Terms apply. How do you guys think about this list? Because we went on a tangent.

[Tamara]

Yeah, we didn't even

[Maul]

Andre. They killed me for that. I had. I used to have my top five.

[Rory]

He doesn't have a solo.

[Maul]

Used to have them in my top five.

[Tamara]

Right.

[Maul]

But without a solo album. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jermaine Dupri]

It's only been so long. You know what I'm saying? It's only been so long. You can rest.

[Maul]

It's just not.

[Rory]

Does Buster have a classic album? It's going to pay me for my answer

[Jermaine Dupri]

when disaster strikes. What what was the debut album?

[Rory]

The coming the fact that you have to think about it.

[Tamara]

The fact that you have to think about it. Let you know. No. The answer is no, babe.

[Rory]

I'm thinking Buster is a goat. Buster is one of the greatest ever had. He to me is in that Chris Brown category of you are a goat. You've given us so much. You've changed the entire genre. You are an elite artist. You've never given us that body of work that your peers have because you're in the conversation with. With everyone that is a legend and Busta should be there and will always be there. But you. He's the Chris Brown.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I think, general, the answer is no. But I think there's probably large majorities of people that will say, say Extinction Level Event might be Bust's classic album, like his magnum opus, but I don't think it's A. It's a vast majority thing. And that's where, you know, that's part of the criteria.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Jermaine Dupri]

You know what I'm saying?

[Rory]

He also had such a heavy output that it gets tough when you have 30 fucking albums. Ludacris, man. Fuck y'.

[Ryan Seacrest]

All.

[Tamara]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Chicken and Beer has a classic. I was about to say Ludicrous has a classic.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Chicken and Beer, I think, is the one back.

[Rory]

First time might be a classic.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Word of mouth.

[Rory]

Word of mouth. Don't.

[Maul]

Classic, though.

[Rory]

All right, all right. Chicken and Beer is a classic. The other ones are great.

[Maul]

Classic. Can we just pull up the word classic? Yeah, because I like to use the right word. I'm in that era of my life. I want to say the right. I don't want to. Yeah, like. I don't want to just keep saying, like, what do these words mean?

[Tamara]

Okay. Classic. Judged over a period of time to be the. Of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind. Remarkably and obstruct. Instructively typical.

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's different. Different.

[Tamara]

A work of. Now a work of art recognized and established value. A school subject that involves the study of ancient Greek.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Whatever.

[Tamara]

So it has to be judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind.

[Rory]

Okay. Chicken and Beer to me is a classic to me because I was there. I don't know in. In 30 years if it's gonna stand. Like, who let these hoes in my room? I don't know if that's gonna, like, make it for the rest of the world, but if you go through, Blow it out. Stand up Splash Waterfalls, Hard times, Diamond in the back, screwed up pussy popping hip hop quotables, Black man struggle, Hoes in my room, Teamwork. This is a classic album to me.

[Tamara]

Yeah. I'm not fighting you on that.

[Jermaine Dupri]

To me, this is a classic on there.

[Rory]

That definitely. I don't know. If an asteroid hits the fucking planet and we can put albums in some shit that's going to survive. They're going to take Chicken and beer and Illmatic and be like, these are. These are the same.

[Maul]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Nah.

[Maul]

And that's all I'm saying.

[Rory]

But get rich. They're gonna say, this is that. I don't.

[Maul]

I think I'm like, this is. This was good, but I think they're gonna listen to other classes.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I'm not gonna fight for so many days, but I'm gonna fight. I'm gonna fight to the end.

[Maul]

Y' all can fight for forgiven Just a long fight I don't think The Good album 1000% impact. Incredible. But just the mu. Nah, I. I just don't know. I don't know if that's it for me.

[Tamara]

Do you think there's a little bit of a nostalgia that comes with classic? Like, for example, like, we were talking about bad movies that are maybe classic. Scarface is a classic. Even though you can go. Go back and poke holes in the story, it is a classic Belly, horrible movie. It's still a classic movie.

[Rory]

Scarface are actually very similar where they're. There are a lot of great moments. Yes, there's a storyline, but it's just a bunch of cool moments. Moments in a movie.

[Tamara]

Yeah, a bunch of cool moments, but they also still. Belly still affects, like, cultural conversations to this day. It's still quoted to this day

[Public Investing Sponsor]

how

[Rory]

Hype shot it is. How people to this day shoot movies and music videos.

[Tamara]

Yeah. So you can't. So, yeah, you can say that in. As a cinephile, yes, it's bad. It's a bad movie, but it's still a classic. Like, you. You can't take classic from it.

[Rory]

I'm with you, Inspector Deck. Look at my face. If the flood didn't happen, maybe you would have.

[Maul]

I think if DMX and Nas was not casted in that, we wouldn't even be talking about that movie.

[Tamara]

Of course not. But that's a lot of things.

[Rory]

Yeah. Okay. If Hype didn't direct, like, yeah.

[Tamara]

If anybody else did train today.

[Rory]

All right, my bad.

[Maul]

No, no, no, no.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Never mind.

[Rory]

If Jay didn't rap Reasonable Doubt.

[Maul]

No, no, no, no.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Casting is. Casting is super important, Mo. We've seen movies and TV shows where, you know, they shot the pilot, and they shot the pilot with one person, and, you know, there was no chemistry, and they put in another person. Like, I could never see, you know, Alan Thicke as this. As the dad. You know what I'm saying? Like, shit like that.

[Rory]

So it's a funny example.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Rest in peace to Alan Thicke.

[Rory]

I mean. But that's also hilarious, too, because Nas was horrible in Belly, but that adds

[Jermaine Dupri]

to the allure of it, oddly enough.

[Rory]

Yo, I got shot in the leg. Let's go to Africa.

[Maul]

Africa's fine.

[Rory]

Don't do that at T Box.

[Jermaine Dupri]

What you talking about here? Now you say Africa. Now fall.

[Rory]

You said a. I disagree with anything.

[Maul]

Y.

[Jermaine Dupri]

We'll pull up the mileage. It's crazy.

[Maul]

I just think it's a good movie. I don't know if it's a classic, though, but I get it. It's because it's so Attached to our culture with DMX and Nas being.

[Rory]

But hood classic exists.

[Maul]

Yeah, hood classic is classic. That's a real thing.

[Tamara]

But I don't want to take away from. See, I don't want to say hood classic because Belly and Scarface are about the same amount of bad. And why only one of them got to be deemed as a hood classic.

[Rory]

Like terrible in the box.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Scarface a hood classic too.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Maul]

Scarface is actually only a classic because

[Jermaine Dupri]

the hood says made it a classic.

[Maul]

Suburban America think Scarface is a classic movie.

[Tamara]

That's not true.

[Maul]

Is not Jack and Scarface in Mount Kisco. They Not Jack and Scarface.

[Rory]

I don't know what happened in the 90s, but whenever they put like Scarface posters out, then the whites got into Scarface. That's really what it was.

[Maul]

Well, cuz the whites like hip hop and post. Yeah. So. But because the whites love posters. We said it was a classic, you know, but if you start talking, if you ask DiCaprio where Scarface lands for he loves Al, I'm sure he. Al's his guy.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Right.

[Maul]

But he doesn't go to Scarface when he's talking about Al. He's probably like, that's Al's worst movie.

[Rory]

If you ask DiCaprio, Al's probably embarrassed in certain rooms when that's.

[Maul]

Yeah, like that's. So that's what I'm saying.

[Rory]

But it still is a classic. For what?

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah, it's a classic. For what it's worth.

[Maul]

It's a classic. Cause we said it was a classic.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Because the impact, even if it's not

[Tamara]

good, you can put something. I think music is a little different from movies because people will put on bad movies and enjoy them even. Even though they know it's a bad movie. Like we'll put on Belly knowing Belly is a terrible movie and still enjoy watching it. Putting on bad music and enjoying it is cringe.

[Jermaine Dupri]

It's kind.

[Tamara]

That's kind of like.

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's different.

[Rory]

You can't enjoy that.

[Maul]

I'd rather look at Keisha and that lingerie than to listen to some subpar. I'd rather watch Keesha than listen to Pimp.

[Rory]

There's hood classics that cross over, though, because I think, okay, my dad loves Scarface. My dad loves dead presidents. My dad likes Peyton Full. He's probably not going to sit and watch Belly with me. Like, there are hood classics that I think have crossed over. Dead presidents being one, Peyton Full being one, and Scarface being one.

[Maul]

Poetic Justice. Is that a hood classic?

[Tamara]

Don't Piss me off.

[Maul]

I'm asking you.

[Tamara]

Not right now, Ma.

[Maul]

I'm asking. Is that a hood classic? Classic? Yeah, I think it is.

[Tamara]

Yeah, it is. It's a classic.

[Rory]

Would someone say it's not?

[Maul]

Some would say it's not.

[Tamara]

Yeah, some would say.

[Rory]

What about that is not a hood classic.

[Maul]

A lot of people classic. I'm just saying.

[Rory]

Some people, I think that would be the bar.

[Jermaine Dupri]

But you, justice, it's a great. You think it's a great film?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Tamara]

You cool?

[Jermaine Dupri]

No, I'm asking him a question.

[Tamara]

It's your first day here. You want to make it out like, what's good? What's wrong with Party Justice?

[Jermaine Dupri]

I thought we were celebrating your birthday. Why? We.

[Maul]

Like, what's wrong?

[Rory]

Exactly.

[Jermaine Dupri]

You know, I can't pose a question.

[Tamara]

What's wrong with Poetic Justice?

[Jermaine Dupri]

I love Poetic Justice. I just wanted to make sure that the room felt like it was a great movie.

[Maul]

Wanted to make sure the room.

[Tamara]

All right. He's taking the temperature. It's hot.

[Maul]

Yeah, but I think. I think in the conversation of classic albums, though, I do think some things are subjective, but at the same time, some things are just unanimous, though. Nah. For sure. And again, back to, you know, Jadakiss having three, two or three classics versus Drake having none.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Keep up that list one more time. I just want to see who else was on that at this point.

[Rory]

Grand Pooba, Method Man, Jadakiss, Fab Black's not a classic.

[Jermaine Dupri]

It's like, see, then that's an argument. That's an argument. Some people say Takal is a classic.

[Rory]

I think Peace, Peach, Please don't make this a clip. I think that Takal is not a classic. I think is in that time. I like Takal.

[Jermaine Dupri]

It was looked at as underwhelming, but

[Rory]

look at what Jizza, Raekwon and Ghost did at that exact same time. It is the worst one out of all of it.

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's a great point.

[Rory]

Don't make it a clip. I don't want to get killed again.

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's a great point. You can't go to Shaolin no more. But it's a great point.

[Rory]

I was in Staten island this weekend.

[Jermaine Dupri]

You can't go this weekend.

[Rory]

I don't think Takal is that. I think Method man again, is one of those. Like, Buster, your. Your goat goes without saying, but Takao will be the closest.

[Maul]

Okay.

[Rory]

Method man has good album. Takao is a great album. Let me put it that way.

[Maul]

It see why we can't just say that about a lot of other people. That's my whole point, why it gotta be classic? Classic?

[Daniel Cormier]

Nah.

[Maul]

But great album.

[Rory]

Is it Cuban Lynx?

[Jermaine Dupri]

Nah, it's certain shit. Like, I wouldn't go. I wouldn't fight you tooth and nail on Grandpa Puba Real or real. But I fuck with real. A real. I listen to that album, I still think it's dope. The fact that I can listen to that album 2026 and still think it's a dope album means I think it's a dope album. But when people, when I fight tooth and nail to say it's a classic, no, I'm not dying on that hill. But I think it's a great album. I think the impact that it had. I mean, obviously we can't count Brand Nubian album as a grand puba solo because it's brand Newbien. But he really carried that album, you know what I'm saying, as far as him coming in and being the elder statesman in that crew, you know what I'm saying? Having the solo records and doing all that, it did it set him up for a solo project. But yeah, nobody's gonna. I don't think a lot of people are gonna say Rilla Real is a classic, but it's a dope grand puba album.

[Maul]

Grand poop album might be one of the most underrated artists that we have.

[Jermaine Dupri]

That's unfortunate. Let's change that. Let's change it today.

[Maul]

Like, when you talk about everything that he bought to rap, different style wise style, his tone sound fresh.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Shit like he knowledge himself. He popped off wild brands, he popped off Jabot crazy. He popped off Hilfiger crazy.

[Maul]

He brought that type of fly shit into hip hop.

[Jermaine Dupri]

The book bag fly shit. You know what I' like the preppy hood mixed with the hood shit. Like, come on, man. And honestly, the crazy shit is he was so instrumental in Mary J. Blige's career, you know what I'm saying? Like, what's the 411 and what's the joint? The other DNC joint? Check it out, check it out. Like, those two records without grandpa was a far bigger artist than Mary J. Blige. His credibility gave her validity in those spaces, you know what I'm saying? Like, him popping off, arguably one of our crown jewels in the culture, speaks as a testament to how important grand puba was in that moment, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, like, he's pooba's one.

[Maul]

He probably.

[Jermaine Dupri]

And he was talking that shit. Yeah, and he was talking that shit.

[Maul]

He's probably one of the Most underrated. So it was good to see you know him on this. Just mentioned. Yeah, yeah. Cause a lot of people, you know, they don't. And I'm, you know, I'm an 80s baby, so I know exactly what Pooh Bah did.

[Rory]

This gentleman put him at number one. Number one of great greatest MCs without the classic.

[Maul]

Now is this in order or is he just naming ten?

[Rory]

I'm not sure.

[Maul]

But I don't know if he thinks Grandpa by Raps better than Black Thought. I don't know.

[Rory]

Well, that's before we get off this. This was my last point. Is it unfair that Black Thought is on this list?

[Maul]

Unfair?

[Rory]

Yes.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah, it is. Because he's the front man of the Roots. Like he's the MC in the Roots. That's like saying.

[Rory]

Saying every album to hit is kind of a solo album.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yes. He's carries the weight of the. Of the Roots for album. For every album.

[Rory]

Like I hear when if you're in a duo and you don't have a soul like Andre on there or Havoc, Prodigy, whatever.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah, but he's the MC of their.

[Rory]

Dude, you had Dice Roll. You had other people there every now and then. But that's just like a feature. Why is every Roots album not technically?

[Jermaine Dupri]

Right?

[Rory]

Cause there's been plenty of of MCs that had just one producer, but they didn't name them as a group.

[Maul]

Right.

[Rory]

But they had their. Their production squad.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Right.

[Rory]

The entire time.

[Jermaine Dupri]

You think about like KRS1 as opposed to Boogie Down Productions. Yeah, those BDP albums are still KRS1 album. You know what I'm saying? They just not deemed as solo. Maybe it's production, maybe it's whatever. Or like I had another point, but basically there's certain. Yeah, there's certain artists that, that carry the bulk of the emceeing on a project. But because of the way the group is labeled or named, it's not, you know, the Roots. The Roots is Black Thought. It's verse wise.

[Rory]

Yeah. I mean, if you want to make the case that it's a duo based off the amount of musicians that came and went, it's Black Thought and Quest Love. But even then, like, okay, Black Thought's the only one rapping.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Quest is not rapping, you know. Now of course you got all of the other MCs that were there. You got Dice Raw, you got Truck north, you got Damn, who just passed. I'm having a brain fart. But you know, There were other MCs that were part of the collective, but Black Thought Even in those records, it's not like there was a bunch of solo records from a bunch of other people. Black Thought is the bulk of the emceeing and the roots throughout their entire catalog.

[Rory]

To me, that's like saying Doggy Style is not a solo Snoop album. It's the same thing. You have one producer that produced the entire thing.

[Jermaine Dupri]

It's labeled as a Snoop album, though. So that's. That's where the different difference is. But that's like saying, you know, you could. You could say. You could say the crime. You talking about the music.

[Maul]

You talking about the music.

[Rory]

It's one producer and one rapper, right? Amir and Black thought, Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg. Is there a difference? Just because the label said roots versus Black Thought?

[Maul]

No, you make a good. You make a good case.

[Rory]

Black Thought, every roots project is a song all over.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Black Thought album, like Public Enemy, right? Those are Chuck. Those are Chuck D albums. Flav jumped in, you know, I mean, ad libbed. He had 911 as a joke. But for the most part, Chuck D carries the bulk of the MCing throughout those projects, you know what I'm saying? Or Gangstar as a group. But Pre didn't drop no raps, you know what I'm saying? Like, Those are Guru MCing, you know what I'm saying? Like Guru MC'd on those albums.

[Rory]

Yeah, this.

[Maul]

This is. I don't know, to close this. How many classic albums you think Jadakiss has?

[Jermaine Dupri]

If I gotta. If I gotta fight for it, I'm gonna say one. I'm gonna say the debut and you

[Maul]

said, which one is classic?

[Rory]

I think Kiss the Game Goodbye and Kiss of Death. My. I have personal classics and then I have classics. They're under personal classics for me. If I were doing a classic, like top 20, I don't think I'd put Kiss of Death or Kiss the game him goodbye. 35 year old me being overlooked.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I think Ghetto Fabulous is being overlooked in these conversations.

[Tamara]

That's okay.

[Maul]

How y' all say that so fast? But then. All right.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I think Ghetto Fabulous is being overlooked in a lot of these conversations.

[Rory]

I was gonna go Real talk, if anything.

[Maul]

I think Street Dreams is being overlooked.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Street Dreams is all right, then you

[Rory]

think kissing this classic.

[Jermaine Dupri]

There's some shit.

[Maul]

I'm just saying. I'm just saying, bro, we got great albums, Great albums.

[Jermaine Dupri]

We won't call them. We won't say the C word. But they're great albums.

[Maul]

And that's all. I'm just. I just want people to stop using the word. Classic. So loosely.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Right? Unless you're talking about get Richard die trying, then please call it a classic

[Maul]

if you deem so. If you feel that way, like I

[Jermaine Dupri]

said, it's also, I'm not even from Queens.

[Maul]

I'm just saying it's all subjective. It's all subjective.

[Rory]

You could be from Queens in the uk and that's a classic album. Okay, before we get out of here, I'm asking this because I know the listeners want to hear from you more. I'm interviewing at this point this morning. Charlamagne had mentioned that he talked to somebody that heard Iceman and that Future was on it, and it's been going viral all morning. This. This is in real time. Can you confirm or deny that Future is on iceman as of March 12, 20, 2026? Duppy side, big facts.

[Maul]

Is he on. Is he on Iceman as it stands today? March.

[Rory]

I just said March 12, 2026.

[Maul]

He might be.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Maul]

I mean, I personally. The information I have and on the album, it's.

[Rory]

He's on the board. He's on the whiteboard.

[Maul]

It's.

[Rory]

Yeah, he's on the whiteboard.

[Maul]

Ideas, Ideas, Ideas.

[Rory]

There's a whiteboard.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Is it a parenthesis, an asterisk?

[Maul]

Like, what is question mark? Ideas are. Ideas are being created.

[Rory]

Yes, Gotcha.

[Maul]

I say that ideas are being created, have been created.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Did they write Future on the whiteboard or say Hendrix?

[Maul]

Well, no, I prefer Hendrix. I don't know about that, but I know ideas or his full government have been created. Ideas Namidius continue to be created. Ideas have been pivoted from Gotcha. So, yeah, I'm not mad at that.

[Tamara]

Where you went to media training school at. They still, like. They still open or they, like, shut down?

[Rory]

Noelle told them that.

[Maul]

No, that's just a fact. It's just ideas are being created. The album is being, you know, fleshed out. It's still a process, that's all.

[Rory]

But I thought, because this isn't even information that, like, we had behind the scenes, I thought it was kind of, like, known that Drake and Future pieced it up. I saw everyone was like, yo, what the f. How could this happen? I thought the had. Wasn't that, like, kind of common knowledge on the timeline? They were. That they were cool again.

[Maul]

Oh, I don't know that. I don't. I don't know about that. But, you know, I don't think this.

[Rory]

I'm tapped in with the Twitter rumors that that was going around everywhere that Future and Drake were cool again.

[Maul]

I don't Think it's far fetched that they may work together again. I don't think that's a far fetched idea.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Music. Music is. Is exponentially better when those guys are cool.

[Rory]

I would. I would hope to God Drake and Future are friends and make more. More music. Need that again. Before we leave, I've noticed Maul is more like EO than I. Than I ever thought. Because I saw this wild clip of Ebro today.

[Maul]

What?

[Jermaine Dupri]

Oh, not please. That come from. Not please with that take.

[Tamara]

Are you trying to get him back for saying get Richard die trying was in a class?

[Rory]

No. That's why I'm starting to realize that that Maul just his speech off the get Rich like that we don't know what we're talking about. Did y' all see this, this Ero clip today? And salute to Ebro. That's. That's my guy.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Love.

[Rory]

Love you Ebro. This might be one of the wildest clips I've seen this month. Can we play this?

[Lowe's Advertiser]

But that's why in hip hop there has always been gatekeepers. Because some of y' all don't deserve a fucking opinion. Because you haven't been doing this professionally. Consuming, playing and critiquing hip hop as your life. You're just a fan. You're just. And we love you. You're just a consumer. You're a customer, as we call them. That's why sometimes your opinion customer doesn't fucking count because you don't fucking do this for real. And that's why when people who do this for real get around and they start looking at the nuances of what an album actually is and what it should mean and what the person is saying through the album and the picture that it's painting and the lyrical breakdown and them being able to stay on topic and who the producers are and what it means and what it serves in time and all of these things. When you create critique, complete bodies of work, not just collections of great songs, that's when you get into like, what is a classic album in general and a classic hip hop album.

[Rory]

Ma, I felt like you kind of sounded like that to us today talking about get Rich. Like we don't know what we talking about.

[Maul]

I say y' all don't know what y' all talking about. That never came out my mouth one time. I never said that.

[Rory]

What is Ebro to?

[Maul]

I mean, I don't know what he read or what people are saying to him online. Maybe he feels like people that, you know, haven't been in or around music in the business of music, as much as he has or as long as he has, don't really have anything that they could say to him. Because, again, you're speaking from a different perspective of it. One is a true consumer. First of all, we're all consumers. We all consume.

[Jermaine Dupri]

We all consumers.

[Maul]

But Ebro has been on the other side the of. He's been in the music business. He's been program director at radio and, you know, things like that. So he has a different sense and a different, you know, connection to the pulse of music and just the energy of music. So I understand what he's saying to an extent. I don't know who he's talking. I don't know where this came from. I don't know if somebody says something based on something Ebro said and responded to him and got mad at something he said on his opinion. But these are all just opinions. It's all about opinions. But again, some things are a little crazy to say. Yeah, y' all feel like me saying get rich or die trying is not a classic. Even though I said it's a great album, I just don't think it's a classic album.

[Jermaine Dupri]

No, this is good barbershop debate. That's one thing. I think that people talk with a certain level of certainty that don't have no idea what the fuck they talking about. And in that regard, I gotta agree with him because I'm in the music business. I'm a rapper, I've been on the road, I'm a songwriter, I'm friends with these artists. I know what happened in the studio, why this song didn't come out. Etc. You have people that, respectfully, you work at FedEx, you go get your hair cut in the barbershop, and you talk with this level of certainty about things you have no idea about. And that pisses me off because it's like. And. And God forbid you buy a microphone in a. In a computer, in a camera.

[Maul]

And now you have the Internet.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah, God forbid you got WI Fi because now you talking and now you got an audience, and now you got people chiming in. And now people are taking your word as some type of factual thing when basically you really just talking out your ass. And I think that where it gets convoluted and that there's like a disconnection is that you have certain people that do have a certain pedigree and do have a certain regard for this business with the knowledge and access that goes along with it, and they YouTube come up right after the other person who just talk about shit in their room. And people value those things the same way when it's not coming from the same place.

[Tamara]

So I understand where you're coming from as far as like talking about behind the scenes that other people may not be privy to, but they get on the mic and like fans come on and say all types of conspiracy theories with artists and all types of shit first. Like, they're talking for sure and they have no idea what the fuck they're talking about. Right? With that, I agree. But when it comes to the music in the ear, the artist should never be creating music for his peers or for the people to. Who work at radio stations to critique it. Yeah, we want you to play it, but it's not for you. It's for the little the niggas in the barbershop to debate whether Kiss the Death or Kiss the Game Goodbye is a fucking classic years later. It's not for us. It's. It's not for. They hate that we even talk about their. They don't create it for us, they create it for the fan some more. More often. Especially now for the casual fan. So to say that those people don't have the right to critique music when they're the ones who started critiquing music before it became a job that pays Ebro all of that money, that's stupid to me. I'm sorry, right?

[Jermaine Dupri]

If that's his, if that's his argument that yeah, everybody has a right. Once the art is out there, everybody with has a right to critique it.

[Rory]

And you're right in everything that you said. But to me, that's a very, very small, small, small part of the people that consume music. We're consumed in that world, whether it's content, reactions, this and that, the fans that have now become reaction commenters and that YouTube world, yeah, it's a big thing, gets a lot of views, but go through the streams of an artist versus the streams of a reaction, neither here nor there. Most people are driving their kids to school, going to and from work, and are there to just listen to the music and have every, every right to critique the entire thing. I'm not saying Ebro was wrong. It was just in the way he said it. With such entitlement where he doesn't realize we are the least important part of this entire process.

[Jermaine Dupri]

We as in who?

[Rory]

The critiquers, the media people, the commenters that are on these microphones. We are the least important out of this whole process. Matter of fact, Ebro was more important when he was A programmer, director and was able to play certain records for artists at that point, he was more important than someone that could critique. The two most important people in this group is the artist number one and then the consumer that's listening to it and buying it.

[Maul]

Right.

[Rory]

Because a lot of times people in front of microphones will start listening to records they'd never listen to. They're only doing it to critique.

[Maul]

Right, Right.

[Rory]

They're not a consumer. They're a content creator.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Right. Especially when I'm listening to this because

[Rory]

I have to comment on it. I'm not consumer that we are the least important. And that's also why I hate. I'm going to go against our own shitty. That's why I hate PR people. Now. You think doing. No doing Puerto Ricans that bad Buddy was ringing.

[Maul]

I know.

[Rory]

What, you going from Cuba, then he's going to Puerto Rico.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Bad buddy.

[Rory]

Paper towels with PR people. I think they're disconnected. Do I love that artists want to come up here and talk about stuff? I just don't think that's as important as y' all think it is. Because a lot of our fans are kind of content fans. They're not music fans. If someone comes up here and. And isn't able to play their music because you can't do that with YouTube, Netflix anywhere, it'll get whitelisted, hustling backwards. You can't even tell your label to let us clear a song that we could play on our show.

[Maul]

Right?

[Rory]

What? That's not a music consumer. You're selling music right now. You're coming up here just to try to be funny so you can get some views. That doesn't.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Right.

[Rory]

That does not move the needle on selling records.

[Jermaine Dupri]

So Hebro says that having this conversation with artists, I'm like, dude, what are you talking about? The game is so fucked up, right? Because, like, you know, guy, I'm on SiriusXM, right? It's a radio platform. It's a national platform. We play music. The music, once it plays. If you wrote those songs or you're the artist on those songs, you will get paid from those songs. You'll have an artist that'll dub coming up to Sirius to come sit with y'. All. No, I'm just saying in general, right? Because y' all hot. Or they know the clips is gonna go, whatever. Whatever. That's not gonna ring the register. Nope. You know what I'm saying? And so that shit is like. The whole shit is convoluted and twisted. But back to you. We also. I Mean, I don't look at myself as a media personality, even though people do. I'm an artist, I create art. But I think I have enough cachet in the business that I do have opinion to talk about it as well. But I think that you talk about those people. Those people also the consumers are important because they go out and consume. Right now we all streaming, so it's different, but they'll still go buy a ticket. Y' all motherfuckers not buying tickets to shows. Y' all calling the label, y' all calling the manager. Y' all going in for free. And you want access too. You wanna go back, you want to adapt the artists. You might want to get. Yeah, you might want to get some content. You know what I'm saying? Like, so. Yeah, you're right to that in that regard. Like, we are the least important people because if your objective is to put out music so that you can financially support yourself and your family, then the consumer is who you need to be focused on.

[Rory]

And to me also, it's contradicting of what Ebro does. That I admire about Ebro with his Apple show. Outside of what he does with Nadeska, Love and everyone. He also does his one on one interviews with artists that are still teetering on the line. I appreciate that Ebro will interview artists that are not a list and I think that does help them because on the Apple platform, you. You can play the music afterwards because it's on their streaming site. And it's more important because we can't play music up here because we get flagged. Ebro can do that with his stuff and I think that's important. But why Ebro is doing it outside of him also making money, as he should. He has a family. It is to get that artist in front of people that will consume the music. The same people that Ebro is just on right now.

[Maul]

Interesting.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Yeah.

[Rory]

What are we getting at?

[Jermaine Dupri]

To know the context of where the

[Rory]

person that's supposed to have an opinion. You're trying to show them the artist.

[Tamara]

Well, it appears that he. That he was also involved in the classic.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Tamara]

Conversation of an album. And I'm sure people disagree.

[Jermaine Dupri]

No, everybody can have an opinion on that.

[Rory]

Well, we're all music snobs and I. I also will not have conversations with certain people that I know don't love music the same way.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I agree.

[Rory]

There'll be plenty of people like, oh, I see where you're at with. I'm not even. There's no point in us even having a conversation. I Literally get that there. But I don't on them as a human being to say that they do not matter and are not allowed to listen to music or have an opinion anymore.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I sit in the box, do what

[Rory]

you want to do, bro.

[Jermaine Dupri]

And don't say one word. So many times be having four hour conversations and debates about.

[Maul]

I know now they get mad when you don't speak.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I know eight. No, I get my cut. I get out of there. But it's just so I'll be so fortunate when I'm in the chair because then I can't really talk. But I be hearing people talk and I mean to very, very high regard and disagreement about shit they just don't have any idea about. And I just be like, y' all know what the fuck y' all talking about.

[Maul]

But also I felt like that with math. But I can't argue that. Cause it's music subjective, right? So I'm just like, how can y' all say that? This artist has three or two or three classics. And this artist has. We talking about classic albums. Not a rap album, not R and B album. A classic body of work. To me it's just like. And in that moment I was like, you know what? I get it. Like it's all. We all are gonna experience and hear things and take from art differently than others. So I get it. So we can have the conversation just because it's all entertainment for shits and giggles. But it's like certain things I'm just

[Jermaine Dupri]

not debating certain shit. I just don't get when people speak matter of factly about shit that they just don't know. Especially like business shit. We can talk about opinions on music. Everybody can have their opinion on that.

[Maul]

Yeah, I'm talking about.

[Jermaine Dupri]

People talk about. Nah. Cause you know, son, stop fucking with son because he did this or he did the record and nah, nah, that

[Rory]

shit is annoying as fuck. But to me, to me that's not talking about music. That's content. You're in the content game. You're in the gossip game. You're in. You're in the Wendy Williams world. Did Wendy talk about music? Sure. But Wendy was in the gossip world. To me, that's what those people are in.

[Jermaine Dupri]

We dabble in both.

[Rory]

We dabble in music and gossip.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I wouldn't say 26. Wendy looking like she knew a lot of fuck she was talking about.

[Rory]

Oh no, her gay list is. She might be bad a thousand, but still gossip. It was music with the review. But I mean to me, again, I'm the same Way in barbershops. I will just stay quiet because it'll be a lot of shit that infuriates me. And I'll be like, you don't know what the fuck you talking about. But I stay quiet because music. I'm a snob, yes. But I realize that music is not necessarily for snobs the way maybe the art world is. That's very niche. Music is for the whole world. The volume of music that comes out every day is not the way Basquiat painted things come out. Right? Like, yeah, you could walk into a gallery and be like, bro, my two year old could draw this. We don't fully understand the fucking point. And this and that. Whatever music is for everybody to just listen to, it can't be critiqued at the same snob level that someone like Ebro, myself, or anyone else in this room feels it should be. It's for the average consumer. It's not for the snob. If you want that, then fucking go watch Whiplash and go shit on Timothee Chalamet and say opera is the greatest thing of all time. I don't know, go be a snob where snobs are.

[Maul]

I love that.

[Rory]

But hip hop is the biggest genre in the world. It's not for snobs anymore. You can't shit on the consumer if you want to keep the shit moving. If we all still want to have jobs, we can't have snobs.

[Maul]

Well, I mean, damn bars.

[Rory]

Listen, I should rap.

[Maul]

We all consumers, man. We all consumers at the end of the day. So, I mean, I get it. Some people can speak matter of factly, some can't. But I look at it, it's all entertaining. Even if you say some crazy shit and I want to laugh, I gotta laugh out of it. I gotta. It's like, all right, cool. I'm not gonna lose no sleep. I'm not gonna get upset. It's like, that's how you feel. That's how you feel to. We want to thank you for coming by, man.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Thank you. Thank you guys for having me.

[Maul]

Gotta come back soon, man, so we can talk some more.

[Jermaine Dupri]

I got a chance.

[Rory]

Perfect episode.

[Jermaine Dupri]

Hopefully I get a chance to hug the Maris. That's the only reason I came here.

[Maul]

Hugging hours off from 12 to, I think, 5. So you might have just. Just caught her. You just caught a year.

[Tamara]

Okay.

[Rory]

She goes into overtime with. It's double for the hug after that time.

[Maul]

We'll talk to y' all soon. Be safe, be blessed. I'm that he Ginger. That's Toray. No worry.

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[Rory]

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[Jermaine Dupri]

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[Rory]

Everywhere.

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[Tamara]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.