Episode 487 | The Greatest Songwriters

Summary

New Rory & MAL

Episode 487 | "The Greatest Songwriters"

Date: April 30, 2026
Podcast: New Rory & MAL — iHeartPodcasts & The Volume

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Overview

This lively, free-wheeling episode is dominated by list debates and hot takes, with Rory, Mall, and Baby D dissecting recent media rankings of the greatest songwriters (NYT), vocalists (Consequence), NBA players (USA Today), and even the merits of Versus rematches. The centerpiece is their passionate, sometimes snarky deconstruction of the New York Times’ "Greatest Living American Songwriters" list—prompting a spirited discussion about hip hop’s place in songwriting, genre inclusion, and all-time great contributions that were snubbed. Along the way, they weigh in on the latest cultural headlines, listener voicemails, and offer plenty of signature banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Studio Catch-Up & Life Updates (02:20–07:00)

• Studio is packed—lighthearted jokes about Ryan shaving his mustache.
• The "is dinner going out?" debate: “No, going out is like the club.” (Baby D, 03:41)
• Birthday talk: Rory’s approaching the “Rasheed Wallace year.” Discussion on the under-celebrated nature of men’s birthdays.

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Movie Review: The "Michael" Biopic (09:02–16:35)

• Rory, Baby D, and Mall share their takes after seeing the new Michael Jackson film.
• Baby D’s sharp critique: “[It’s] very lazy writing... I think they did a disservice to the actors... It was very one dimensional and lazy.” (Baby D, 10:06)
• Rory’s take: Impressed by the acting and direction, but “No disrespect whoever wrote it, but you were the reason it stunk.” (Rory, 11:10)
• The group laments the missed opportunity for deeper storytelling and complexity, especially about Michael’s relationships and creative journey.

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MAIN SEGMENT: Songwriter List Debates (17:02–31:48)

The New York Times’ "30 Greatest Living American Songwriters"

• Instant reactions to the NYT list—praising its intention but frustrated by glaring omissions.
• "Why stop at 30 if you're going to leave people like that off?" (Rory, 20:53)
• Notable snubs according to the crew: Brian Michael Cox, Jermaine Dupri, Johnta Austin, Ne-Yo, Dallas Austin, Nas, Beyoncé, Kanye West (“maybe best as producer/arranger”), Drake (excluded due to nationality), Eminem, Future, Raphael Saadiq, Sean Garrett, James Fauntleroy.
• “Thug being there, no Jermaine Dupri or Brian Michael Cox is crazy.” (Mall, 21:14)
• Genre and generational politics: “Songwriters and rappers are two completely different things... But Nas wrote Big Willie Style.” (Rory & Mall, 21:36)
• Taylor Swift and Bad Bunny discussed as deserving—huge, self-writing stars.
• “Bad Bunny’s music... I can't give him or take away his credit because I don't understand what he's saying.” (Baby D, 29:05)
• Debate about inclusion of duos or groups (Jimmy Jam/Terry Lewis vs. Outkast).
• Grappling with who to take off to make room for snubbed icons.
• “If you gonna have Thug, then where’s Future?” (Mall, 26:36)

Criteria & Industry Lens

• Questioning NYT’s intent: is the list lyric-driven or broad composition?
• “I like that a publication is honoring songwriters. This actually has some type of substance.” (Rory, 29:57)
• The difficulty of recognizing behind-the-scenes contributors, especially in hip hop and R&B.

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Consequence Top 100 Vocalists List (40:03–44:34)

• Freddie Mercury ranked #1; Aretha Franklin, Whitney Houston, Marvin Gaye, Beyoncé, Michael Jackson in the top 10.
• Rappers included among "vocalists" (e.g., Kendrick Lamar at #20, DMX at #32).
• “Freddie Mercury’s not the greatest vocalist of all time.” (Mall, 42:47)
• “DMX is better than Luther Vandross? This is rage bait.” (Baby D, 41:38)
• General consensus: The list is worthy of going viral but is trolling for clicks, and not taken seriously by the co-hosts.

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USA Today’s Top 25 Basketball Players List (45:01–48:54)

• Hosts review and critique the order: Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Steph Curry in the top four, with Maul defending Curry’s position over LeBron.
• “He’s literally dominated LeBron—if Steph had an ego, they’d drug test him after every game.” (Mall, 47:19)
• Arguments over placement; discussion of basketball ego and legacy.

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Versus Debate: Rick Ross vs. French Montana (52:14–59:35)

• Questioning the necessity & logic of repeat Versus battles.
• “I’m done with Versus. This is now becoming a little… it’s corny now.” (Mall, 52:36)
• Discussion of Versus business moves (sale, repurchase), waning cultural relevance, and the limitations of the format now that COVID lockdowns are over.
• “If we’re doing a repeat with Ross just to go against French... why not Baby vs Gunna? I think they just know it’s gonna look like a Chrysler pulling up to a Bentley.” (Rory, 57:35)
• Reflection on why culture-shaping young artists aren’t featured.

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List Overload & List Culture Critique (various)

• General fatigue and cynicism toward viral music and sports rankings.
• Notable quotes:
  • “We gotta stop addressing every list... this is just rage bait.” (Baby D, 41:49)
  • “But I mean, my favorite comment here is: ‘No LeBron??’” (Rory, 30:18)

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Voicemail Segment Highlights (64:41–76:24)

Co-Parenting Hotel Dilemma (64:41–76:24)

• Listener asks advice: Is it a red flag for your new girlfriend to have her baby’s father stay in her hotel room at their child’s cheer competition?
• Baby D sees both sides: “It could just be about structure and co-parenting, especially if he’s a distracted dude.”
• Rory and Mall: think it’s a red flag if the only reason is to keep him from partying or chasing women; also advise the listener it’s too early in a relationship to deal with this much drama.
  • “Go get your family back.” (Mall, 72:13)

The Diana Russini–Mike Vrabel Cheating Allegations (76:30–87:39)

• Dissection of the “journalistic integrity” and family implications of the NFL reporting controversy.
• “You don’t just name your kid after your side— that just don’t happen.” (Baby D, 78:12)
• Group muses on the complications of naming kids after past partners and family dynamics when there are “side babies”.

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Family Dynamics: Accepting "Side Babies" (89:00–91:24)

• Baby D: “A lot of people don’t accept that kid. Like the Jacksons had a hard time accepting Giovani…”
• The crew discuss blended families and mature ways to integrate half-siblings, referencing Mariah Carey/Nick Cannon’s kids.
• Rory jokes: “You think Mariah does matching pajamas with everyone?”

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• "[The Michael movie] is very lazy writing... Michael was such a complex person... making Joe Jackson the only antagonist is very lazy writing." — Baby D (10:06)
• "No disrespect whoever wrote it, but you were the reason it stunk." — Rory (11:10)
• "Why stop at 30 if you're going to leave people like that off? Because…[some] are the backbone of R&B!" — Rory (20:53)
• "Thug being there, no Jermaine Dupri or Brian Michael Cox is crazy!" — Mall (21:14)
• “Freddie Mercury is not the greatest vocalist of all time.” — Mall (42:47)
• “DMX is better than Luther Vandross? This is rage bait.” — Baby D (41:38)
• "Steph is definitely above LeBron for me, for sure." — Mall (46:25)
• "We gotta stop addressing every list…" — Baby D (41:49)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Studio Catch-up & "Is dinner going out?" – 02:20–04:48
• Birthday reflection & Men’s birthdays – 06:33–08:55
• Michael Jackson Movie Review – 09:02–16:35
• NYT Greatest Songwriters List Debate – 17:02–31:48
• Consequence Best Vocalists List Debate – 40:03–44:34
• USA Today Basketball List – 45:01–48:54
• Versus: Ross vs. French debate & relevance – 52:14–59:35
• Voicemail: Co-parenting hotel dilemma – 64:41–76:24
• Voicemail: Journalist cheating scandal – 76:30–87:39
• Blended Families & “Side Babies” – 89:00–91:24

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Tone and Language

• True to the podcast’s style: irreverent, sharp, hilarious, and thought-provoking, with plenty of crosstalk, smart banter, and quotable zingers.
• Language is frank and often explicit, with a conversational, sometimes combative energy—brilliant for fans, occasionally NSFW.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

If you haven’t heard this episode, expect a deep and opinionated dive into the politics of “all-time” rankings, plenty of side jokes and cultural critiques, and a window into how music, pop culture, and relationship issues all collide in the group chat that is New Rory & MAL.

Transcript

[Baby D]

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[Mall]

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[Rory]

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[Mall]

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[Rory]

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[Rory]

We are back. Yes, we are happy. Middle of the week sponsored by Boost. We are here. The whole crew is here.

[Mall]

We are here.

[Rory]

Studio is packed.

[Mall]

Yes, we are so packed.

[Rory]

So loud. Can't even hear myself.

[Mall]

Can't even walk in the studio today with so many people.

[Rory]

Ryan shaved his mustache. You know, things, things are. Are back on track.

[Mall]

Ryan was trying to shape up his mustache and messed up and up. He had to like shave it all off.

[Rory]

Better than that, I guess then your eyebrows or something. Yeah. You really. Then you really.

[Mall]

Yeah, we've all been there, Ryan. It's okay. It'll grow back.

[Rory]

Yeah, no, I've definitely, like, missed when I've tried to shape up right here and like definitely caught like I was over now, like.

[Mall]

So I just let it go back.

[Rory]

Yeah. No, then you just got to put your mask back on. You all right over there? I'm good.

[Mall]

Always. Okay.

[Rory]

Well, damn, that was a little sassy

[Baby D]

because why you asked me if I was all right. That was mad random. He was in the middle of a whole sentence.

[Rory]

You just looked perturbed.

[Baby D]

I don't know. Just fixing my hair.

[Rory]

Okay, well, how are you feeling?

[Baby D]

I feel amazing. I feel good.

[Rory]

Great.

[Baby D]

Going out after this.

[Mall]

Of course you are. After she told us last week, I'm done. I ain't going no every month.

[Baby D]

But okay, when I mean going, I don't mean going out. Like, I'm just, I'm having dinner.

[Mall]

That's going out.

[Baby D]

You're old so you would think that.

[Rory]

But you also consider going. Dinner is going out. What are you talking about?

[Baby D]

No, going out is like the club.

[Mall]

That's like that too.

[Baby D]

Not every every time you leave the house don't mean you going out.

[Mall]

Going to dinner is going out.

[Rory]

Especially in New York.

[Mall]

Who are you talking about? That's not even a debate. Going to dinner is going out. That's part of going out. Like I'm going out. Where you're going. We're gonna go to dinner. I mean, that's going.

[Baby D]

No going to dinner. And in the, the comma, like if other is coming after dinner, then that's going out.

[Mall]

But if you're just going, even if you don't do nothing else, if you go to dinner, you, you went out. I went out to dinner. That's going out. Then it's part of going out.

[Baby D]

Okay?

[Rory]

And just because the bar serves food doesn't mean you're out to dinner. You're out.

[Baby D]

I'm at dinner, smart ass.

[Mall]

But you're going out.

[Rory]

Hookah spot got wings. So now we at dinner.

[Baby D]

I'm going to dinner. Yes.

[Mall]

You outside now.

[Baby D]

I'm outside.

[Mall]

Cause it's not gonna end at dinner. It's not gonna.

[Baby D]

It is. We have to work tomorrow.

[Mall]

What that mean?

[Baby D]

Actually, I canceled. Cause he pushed it and I was like, you know, eight is late for me. I was like, I gotta work tomorrow.

[Mall]

Like eight is late. Let me tell you what that is. Stop. Right hold that thought, baby. D. All that means is that this is the first time she's hung out with this gentleman and she don't want him to think like, I'm gonna just be out late with you. That's not happening. It's not giving that it's not giving. I'm just outside late with you.

[Rory]

Lots going on with Meg.

[Mall]

I don't know you like that. You know what I'm saying? So we gonna go do dinner early and I'm gonna be back home because I have things to do tomorrow.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mall]

All right. Now go ahead and proceed.

[Baby D]

Shout out to my brother Jeff, who's taking me to dinner. I'm going to dinner with my brother.

[Mall]

Stop right there. So when they say they brother, right? If it ain't the. If it ain't the same mother or the same father, that ain't the brother like, he'll hit if you get the opportunity.

[Baby D]

No, no. Okay, let's stop, stop, stop.

[Rory]

Not before 8.

[Baby D]

You tripping after 8.

[Mall]

Naturally, it has to be at the club.

[Rory]

You never beat before eight.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Hell, yeah.

[Mall]

It's the best. That's some of the best. Beat while the sun is still up.

[Rory]

Sunset beat.

[Mall]

Oh, my God.

[Rory]

It's romantic, actually.

[Mall]

Yeah, I hear you get horny when the sun is out.

[Rory]

Well, I assume you're not outside at all this week.

[Mall]

Me?

[Rory]

Yeah. No, I assume you would have been at the opening of the casino last night. You and Nas. I don't even gamble the paper.

[Mall]

Why would I be.

[Rory]

Nas put five on red. I was like, oh, where's mall at?

[Mall]

No mall was in the house watching the Knicks. That's what I was doing.

[Daniel Cormier]

We're back.

[Mall]

So back.

[Rory]

Easy. Next. Until they.

[Mall]

Until they lose game six.

[Rory]

Nah, it's Nicks and Sticks, isn't it? We wanted.

[Mall]

That sounds good.

[Rory]

I know. We. That's why we went to game six instead of doing five. Like, that's good marketing. Now we can sell T shirts, Nicks and six. Come on. You're not thinking like Dolan.

[Mall]

I'm not thinking. I'm never thinking.

[Rory]

We could have easily swept us around. Yeah, he's like Nas.

[Mall]

Yeah, but. But congrats to Nas on the opening of the casino.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mall]

That's big business.

[Rory]

No, I wanted to go support. But that. That 11pm that's when things start. I'm cool.

[Mall]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rory]

No, no way. I was doing that. But it was fun to watch the Knicks. It's midweek. Trying to stay focused. I'm on the road to my. My Rasheed Wallace year.

[Mall]

Yes. Your birthday is.

[Rory]

Yeah. Rasheed Wallace.

[Mall]

Next week. Is it Monday?

[Rory]

No, Monday.

[Mall]

Monday.

[Baby D]

Oh, yeah.

[Rory]

When we come into work, I'll be. I'll be here on my birthday.

[Mall]

Yeah, A lot of us work on our birthdays, baby.

[Baby D]

Oh, can't relate.

[Mall]

Yeah, I know. You Can't.

[Rory]

Anyway, I plan on being here on Monday on my birthday. It's my birthday weekend, though, so.

[Mall]

What you doing this weekend?

[Rory]

I don't have any plans. Watch Rasheed Wallace footage.

[Mall]

That plan.

[Rory]

Rashid. Rashid Wallace on the Pistons year is. Is a nasty year. There's nothing cool.

[Mall]

That's a good age though, because it's right after 35, so, you know, I mean, you turned that corner.

[Rory]

It's a. I mean, I don't want to say depressing because I'm not one of those people. The point of this whole thing is to age and age as long as we possibly can. It's just starting your late 30s. That's a little. It's a little weird.

[Mall]

It gets great.

[Rory]

35 was odd. It's like, all right, it's now early 30s, done. Now I'm just in this limbo now.

[Mall]

This is when the fun starts. Now it starts.

[Rory]

I can't. I can't. I can't stay up past 10pm how does the fun start?

[Mall]

You get everything done before 10. Easy.

[Rory]

8pm dinners. Yeah.

[Mall]

Come on, man.

[Rory]

No, but I don't really have any plans. I plan on coming to work. That'll be fun. Yeah. Well, we can sell. Yeah. We could do a whole birthday episode, you know, where you talk about the same things you would talk about, except this time there's a cake.

[Mall]

Yeah, exactly. That's.

[Rory]

That's all.

[Mall]

So that's all a birthday is. Yeah, men's birthdays, we don't. We got to find a way to like, really celebrate our birthdays as men. Like, what do we do? We know what women do for their birthdays, but what do men do for their birthday?

[Rory]

We say we don't want to do anything and then we sulk all day that no one did anything for us.

[Mall]

Yeah, but we gotta. We gotta change that.

[Rory]

No, but that's.

[Mall]

That's what we have to change the culture of men's birthdays.

[Rory]

We resent all the people that we told to not do anything.

[Mall]

Like, we need a unanimous thing that all men do on their birthdays. We need to come up with something.

[Rory]

I mean, it used to be the strip club until that became such a normal. Like you take a first date there.

[Mall]

Yeah, yeah, that's normal. That's normal activities.

[Rory]

I don't know. I mean, maybe unlike some of those men's men's retreats, like where they do taekwondo in the woods.

[Mall]

I don't know if I want to.

[Rory]

And then they take like acid or something.

[Mall]

Not for your birthday. I don't know.

[Rory]

And then try to unlock, like, your ego.

[Mall]

Yeah, no, not on your birthday.

[Rory]

Yeah, it's enlightenment.

[Mall]

I don't want to get enlightened on my birthday.

[Rory]

Whores and Turks, that. That seems to be pretty popular.

[Mall]

We'll figure out something. We'll figure out. So we. We got time, but we only have a few more days for your birthday. But, yeah, next year. Yeah, that's the year. That's the year we're gonna get this thing right.

[Rory]

I had that on my vision board. Years 37 is my year. Yeah.

[Mall]

Yeah. Come on, man. Got to have fun.

[Rory]

2027. That's me. I already claimed that year.

[Mall]

So, did y' all go see the movie?

[Rory]

Oh, we were outside on Monday. Tamaris and I went to go see Michael. After your rave review, I was. I was expected to go see Pulp Fiction, the musical.

[Mall]

What?

[Rory]

That's just how you described how good the movie was.

[Baby D]

Okay,

[Rory]

how do I put this nicely? You have weird taste in movies.

[Mall]

Okay.

[Baby D]

You baby D. I knew it was gonna be ass. I told you it was gonna be ass.

[Mall]

That is ass. Y' all don't know good movie.

[Baby D]

That movie was bad.

[Mall]

I don't know good movies.

[Baby D]

We don't know good movies. He acting like that was the Color Purple.

[Mall]

Yeah. I don't know good movies. The last Color Purple was trash, and I think you love that.

[Baby D]

What? The musical. I didn't even see it. See how you just make up?

[Mall]

I thought it was somebody.

[Rory]

Huh? Like the Oprah one?

[Mall]

No, no.

[Rory]

Okay, Come on.

[Baby D]

The one I think Jennifer Hudson, isn't it. Maybe Halle Bailey.

[Rory]

Oh, I never saw. I only saw that.

[Baby D]

I didn't. I didn't watch it.

[Mall]

So y' all didn't like the Michael movie?

[Baby D]

No.

[Mall]

What did y' all like about it? Watch this.

[Baby D]

Everything that. That. The critiques that I came in here with and said online, I'm seeing these critiques. The critics are saying these critiques. I have the same exact.

[Mall]

About what? Say it.

[Baby D]

I think it was very lazy writing. I think that Michael was such a complex person, and I've admired Michael for so long and studied Michael for so long that for you to make the only antagonist in this movie be Joe Jackson is very lazy writing. I think that that's very lazy writing. The movie basically sums up to. I just got to get away from my dad because he's so. I think that that's doing Michael's story a disservice. Even if it is just half his story, I think that's doing it a disservice. I think they Did a disservice to the actors that they had in it because the actor, they have phenomenal actors, but they could only do so much with what they were given. I just think it was very one dimensional and lazy. I don't think it was. I don't think. Now do I think that Jafar did a great job as Michael. Yes, I think he did an amazing job as Michael. But I don't need to see a bunch of legendary performances just reenacted. I don't need to see that. They spent way too much time doing that. There was way too much of that. So yeah, just get away from Joe Jackson. That's the theme of the movie. I think that that's lazy writing to me, but I'm not going to be mad at other people enjoying it.

[Rory]

I share a lot of the same sentiments. I think I'll start with love. I think he did a great job playing Michael down in the mannerisms, the voice. I can't say enough of that. I even think it was shot very well too. I think it was directed really well. No disrespect whoever wrote it, but you were the reason it stunk like it was shot well. Young Michael was incredible. It's just you're taking these complex moments and I totally understand protecting legacy as well. And it doesn't have to be a hit piece or a fluff piece, but when you have situations like Michael being one of the first black artists played on mtv and that scene is Michael just walking in going, I want to be on mtv. And then the execs like, I'll make the call. Yo, he's on mtv. You're on mtv. Now it's this like what the.

[Baby D]

Very lazy.

[Rory]

There's so much to unpack with that entire thing. And to the marriage point, I thought the performances were incredible. Very high value. Like you could tell they put a lot of money, a lot of time into it. I've watched all four of those performances on YouTube 10,000 times and I can go do that right now. Like I'm. I'm glad they added them in, but that shouldn't have been the focal point of something that we can easily just watch on our phones with one click. Like, I would have liked to see more of the behind the scenes Michael than just focus on the performance. And then weird one liners in between. Like, I, the actors did great, but they had shitty lines. Like I think they got Michael's parents mannerisms down. Like they did well, but it's just like you're giving them nothing to Talk about.

[Mall]

So you feel like the acting was good, but the script was terrible?

[Rory]

Yes, I think. And I think if you're doing part two, again, no disrespect to this writer. He may have written things that I love. I'm not even sure who the writer was. But with what they have from 1988 to 2009, for part two, you can't have this type of writing. There's way too much complex shit. We got out of the way. The pop star, we know that Mike's a pop star now. You can't do part two the same way. You can't. Yeah, way too much complex shit. And even I'm not here to defend Joe Jackson in any type of way, but him being the antagonist, you could have explored his perspective of why he was doing this for his kids. Outside of the one conversation. I'm the one that got inside of Gary. Conversation closed. Like, there's so much more you could have done with that.

[Baby D]

It's these, these are. And people. I've seen people like, well, this movie is about Michael. It's not about his family. But it also is. And there's like, for example, I couldn't even point out which brother was which bro. Like, they didn't really explore his relationship with his brothers. You could say that the movie is about Michael, but that's important. His relationship with his father, like, those things are more important. You give complexity to not just the main character, but the supporting charact. They deserve complexity too. They deserve to be more than just one dimensional. That's what makes a movie. That's what makes a story. And people be invested in a story. You can't just have the main character be the main character. The side characters need to also be explored in their complexities too. And especially because multiple of them are still alive. So it's just like, it's just so it was just very one dimensional writing. It's like if you told somebody who was fucking 15 years old or 14 years old, who was born in 2003 to describe what Michael Jackson's life is because they were a Michael Jackson fan, like, there was no insight that. Or things I wouldn't know. Just watching Michael, like there, it's like his family was involved in this. Where is something that we didn't know. Where is something that tells us about who y' all were as a family. Not just like what the public would assume. I just, I didn't. I wasn't a big fan of it. But I'm sure if you like, obviously, like I was Singing, Waiting, the song.

[Rory]

I was entertained.

[Baby D]

I was entertained.

[Rory]

It just. But felt like it was a. It was a missed opportunity with so much depth of that. The first half of Michael's life with his childhood that. That granted, of course, I've seen other series and. But the stuff that I was not alive for, I was alive for all the fuck. Shit. Towards the end of his career, as a music fan that knows a lot about Michael, I would have liked to know more about his childhood, like, outside of just the obvious things we know. And I think it's funny that Hollywood always wants Lorenz Tate to be very Gordy. Maybe we should give someone else a shot. But I love Lorenz Tate and he always plays. Yo. Was Barry Gordy an executive producer on this?

[Baby D]

And I don't think so.

[Rory]

Boy, did they protect him.

[Baby D]

I didn't. I don't.

[Rory]

They made Barry Gordy look like the nicest father figure of all time. Like, if he would have stayed with Barry, he would have been an okay person.

[Baby D]

Yeah. I don't. I don't know. I just feel like they. There was so much time in the movie spent on their performances. Like, there were like three big, huge performances that took up a lot of time. They weren't glimpses of a performance. They were a full reenactment. You could have spent that time to have more dialogue that led to a deeper story.

[Rory]

To me, it felt like Michael on Broadway. Short, shorter dialog, amazing music scenes, which is like. I'm not saying that's bad. Just with a movie, I prefer something different.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

And we have to stay. Stay on it long. But, yeah, it was. It was Michael on Broadway to me, which is not an insult by any means.

[Baby D]

That's a very good way to put it.

[Rory]

Yeah. Let's condense this dialog so we can get to singing and dancing. But, you know, I still encourage people to go see it if you love Michael Jackson.

[Mall]

Just have that same energy when they do the Simply Red movie.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Baby D]

Who's Simply Red?

[Mall]

Before your time. You know Simply Red? You don't know Simply Red?

[Rory]

I mean, I think it'd be a great biopic.

[Mall]

I want. I want to know about. I love Simply Red.

[Rory]

Plenty. Plenty to unpack with that. Yeah, I'm totally with you. Well, while we were gone, which was one day, it became list centric again, which usually happens towards the end of the year. But I guess going into the summer, content numbers typically go down because more people go outside across the board. So I think everyone's trying to get their last traffic in. So let's make as many lists as we can. Didn't we just go through a list where I said, B dot, you're on the clock. Yo, B dot, I. You gotta do something this week. This is getting out of hand.

[Baby D]

Well, bdot usually does his list at the end of the year.

[Rory]

Yeah, but he got to adapt his comp. His competitors are. Are coming up with. With vocalists that aren't vocalists. Where do we want to start? We're going to start with the. The greatest writers of all time from the New York Times OR Consequences Top 100 Best Vocalists of all time. I'm here to start with New York Times because they did a bunch of video pieces, too, with some of the greatest songwriters ever.

[Baby D]

Is my great on there? Is my goat on there?

[Rory]

I believe your goat is on there.

[Baby D]

My goat is on there. She. Is that in order?

[Rory]

No.

[Baby D]

Oh, okay.

[Rory]

New York Times made it very clear that these songwriters not in order. 30 greatest of all time.

[Baby D]

Okay.

[Rory]

They started. The first thing I saw was they did like, a video piece with Jay Z where he was explaining entendres and this and that, and he made a very interesting quote that he ended up getting killed for. Of older artists trying to sound young. It comes off, you know, inauthentic. The listener can really hear when an older artist is trying to adapt to a time that he's not a part of. It comes across weird. There's no feeling in it. He mentioned. He said the clips are a great example of not doing that. And I feel Jay, I think that's a very accurate, accurate description of certain artists. With that said, last week, I did see you give the screw face to DJ Khaled and Future, who are 45 and 50 years old trying to rap like Gun. And you look like they found the fountain of youth.

[Baby D]

Hey, man, you know, shit sound different in the studio. It sound different in the studio. It sound different in the studio. The listening party, like, you know, and

[Rory]

I'm joking, but I sound different when

[Mall]

the person whose song it is is playing it for you.

[Rory]

Yeah. And screaming in your face of how

[Mall]

good it is when they selling it to you.

[Rory]

And Khaled is sitting there doing who's a great salesman?

[Mall]

Yeah, yeah. He's doing his pitch. It's like, okay, I get it.

[Rory]

Khaled is amazing at pitches. Marketing. Yes. It's tough when you sit in there. But no, and I'm joking, but I did see people killing Jay for that. And I think that that's an accurate, you know, response to Jay after that. Like, but we just we just saw you be quiet. About a 50 year old making.

[Baby D]

It's a name missing out here. Scroll down.

[Rory]

Which name are you looking for?

[Baby D]

B. Cox is who I'm looking for.

[Rory]

No, he's not on here. I will read very quickly, as quick as I can, these 30 names of the greatest American living songwriters right now. Jay Z, Young Thug, Kendrick Outkast, Missy Elliott, Mariah Carey, the Dream, Bad Bunny, Babyface, Stevie Wonder, Nile Rogers, Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis, Smokey Robinson, Lionel Richie, Taylor Swift, Lana Del Rey, Dolly Parton, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Paul Simon, Carole King, Willie Nelson, Dion Warren, Fiona Apple. I always this first name up. Lucindia Williams, Romeo Santos, Valerie Simpson, Brian and Eddie Holland. I'm with you, Bears. I don't understand why Brian Michael Cox or Jermaine Dupri, even if they wanted to do a duo, would not be up there. John to Austin. I have no idea why the is not up there. I can make a case that Neo could be up here.

[Mall]

No, it's not a case. It's not a case at all. Neo should be there.

[Rory]

I could also make a case that Dallas Austin should be up there. Mm. So at that point, like, why stop at 30 if you're going to leave people like that off? Because I'm not here to disrespect other genres that maybe don't mean as much to me because I think obviously New York Times has to do all genres. But nah, listen, man.

[Mall]

Nah, listen, I get it. But Thug being there. No. Jermaine Dupree of Brian Michael Cox is crazy thug.

[Rory]

And no.

[Mall]

And no disrespect.

[Rory]

Thug is a great writer, specifically with melodies. Writes some of the best melodies of the last 20 years. The fact that we would consider Young Thug a rapper.

[Peach]

Right.

[Rory]

Nas is not up here as one of the greatest rappers living, so.

[Baby D]

Right. Songwriters and rappers are two completely different things. But I hear you fair. Very different things. Because Jay Z's up there, so it's very different.

[Rory]

Okay. Nas wrote Big Willie style.

[Mall]

Beyonce's not up there.

[Rory]

Crazy.

[Baby D]

No, but.

[Rory]

And I know people are gonna comment.

[Baby D]

Other people writes her.

[Rory]

She has help. But. Yes, she does. Like, what are we talking about?

[Mall]

Yeah, Kanye's not up there.

[Rory]

Yeah, I'll say. Because. Because the. The Internet would just make. Drake should be up here.

[Baby D]

Drake should definitely be up there.

[Mall]

Oh, yeah, they're saying he's American or Canadian.

[Rory]

Oh, that's. You think that's why that's made America.

[Baby D]

That's fair.

[Mall]

What are they saying? You know, like, we gotta. We gotta read the title. American songw is technically. He's Canadian. I get it.

[Rory]

But no, he's not technically. No, he just is. No, he's. He's Canadian.

[Baby D]

What was the. Can we find the qualifications? Ryan to see Complex is usually good at doing that, but this is a New York Times list because I. I'd like to see what the qualifications were for that because there's no way.

[Rory]

I hear you on. On Kanye, and I do think Kanye is a great writer, but I think if you were to go with his strongest suit, it would be production arranging, which is writing. But I think there's. They're speaking specifically to lyrics with songwriting, not instruments and melody, I would assume so. I hear you on. I mean, Kanye is a great writer,

[Mall]

but Jermaine Dupree and Brian Michael should be on that.

[Rory]

That goes like.

[Mall]

This is. This is crazy.

[Rory]

Without saying to me. There's also another one that they're, you know, they obviously could not put up there. But he deserved to be up there.

[Mall]

He's not going to be on any.

[Rory]

Of course he's not going to be on any list, but there's one they're leaving out that might be number one or number two in there, but again, I get it.

[Baby D]

That's fine. I'm perfectly fine with him being left off. Brian Michael Cox and Jermaine Dupree being left off. I am not okay with. They do have my two goats on there, though. They missing my third one. But they got her boyfriend.

[Mall]

But whatever this.

[Rory]

I. I'm not mad that he's not up there, but. Honorable Boyfriend who?

[Baby D]

It was a Mariah scientist joke, but go ahead, Roy.

[Rory]

Who are we taking off to put Mariah on the scientist?

[Baby D]

Young Thug.

[Rory]

Young Thug is a better writer than Ryan.

[Baby D]

Okay, that's your personal opinion. I don't agree with you at all, but that's your personal opinion.

[Rory]

You guys may laugh at me. I think Sean Garrett, you can make a case for sure.

[Baby D]

Well, I mean, if we're. Okay, so if it's just 30. If it's just 30, we can't just start naming really good writers. Like, you gotta have the best of the best. Like Diane Warren is up there. Like, let's.

[Rory]

Okay. But Rafael Sadiq isn't.

[Baby D]

Well, so this. That's when we get to the point of who you're taking off. That's that. That's what I'm saying. Like. Okay, I'm not saying that people aren't good, aren't great, but if you're only doing 30, then you get to the point of who you're taking off. Like I said, I'm perfectly fine to

[Rory]

dug off to put.

[Mall]

If you're Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, then, like, put an outkast there.

[Rory]

In what way?

[Baby D]

I ain't mad at all. I'm mad.

[Mall]

I'm just saying if Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis counts as. Is that counting as two, correct, Ryan?

[Baby D]

Yes, but they usually write together. I think that that's fair. They usually write together.

[Mall]

Who?

[Baby D]

Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.

[Mall]

You think outkast doesn't write together? You think when Big Boy and Andre was in the studio, he was like, nah, don't put this.

[Rory]

Say that on one album.

[Baby D]

Oh, so that's what you mean is saying you should count two of the. Count them as two, not one.

[Mall]

It should be Andre 2000 and Big Boy.

[Baby D]

Okay, that makes sense. That makes sense.

[Mall]

Like, I'm just saying. I'm just looking at this.

[Rory]

Well, no fair. But if Outkast, if they started their career and the name of Outkast was Andre 3000 and Big Boy, instead of the name Outkast, they probably list it as Andre through that.

[Baby D]

Yeah, if Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.

[Rory]

That's just how that. Yeah, that's how they marketed. Even though that's like their names. But. Well, Jimmy Jam is. I don't know if that's his government, but that's. That's. That's their production duo artist name. The same way it is with Outkast. I don't know. This one's tough to start with because we're talking just solo career, what you wrote for other people and like, I. I don't know.

[Mall]

Just writer.

[Rory]

That's why that's writers. I'm sure it's just what you. Then. Just then just writers then. Yeah, the ones I named Raphael, Sadiq, for sure. Nas for sure. Needs to be in there. Goes without saying with Brian Michael Cox and J.D.

[Mall]

i mean, if you're gonna have Thug there, why not have Quentin there?

[Rory]

I think Quentin's an incredible writer. But would. Would the biggest records? Because Quentin's bet on how many, like, iconic records. Let me not say iconic huge records. Probably like five or six that he's been credited for.

[Baby D]

It needs to be iconic. When you're doing the 30 greatest living American rappers, like, I mean, writers, you can't just do, okay records or hit records. You need iconic.

[Mall]

If you gonna have Thug, then where's Future?

[Rory]

Listen, he makes a case.

[Baby D]

But does Future write his song? I'm not saying write his raps, write his song.

[Mall]

Yeah. Future has written written songs for other artists. No, I1 melodies and all.

[Rory]

Like, one would say, based off the demo of Drunken Love, Jay Z and Beyonce both took his flow.

[Mall]

Like, I mean, if you go. I'm just saying. Like, I'm just looking at the list. I'm just saying, I think Future should be there. If you're gonna have Thug there, you'll have Jada Kendrick there. I mean. Yeah. So who do you.

[Baby D]

Who do you take off to put a Future there?

[Mall]

I would take Thug off.

[Baby D]

Okay.

[Mall]

And put Future there.

[Baby D]

But if you gonna take Thug off and put Future there, like, I feel like you would take Thug off and put, like, some. That's what I'm saying. It's only 30 spots, so if you want Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis, Johnson, Austin on there.

[Rory]

Well, Jimmy Jam's on there.

[Baby D]

I mean, not Jimmy Jam. I'm sorry. Jermaine Dupree and B Cops, they should definitely be there.

[Mall]

Without a fucking doubt.

[Baby D]

Take off sturdy. Who do you take off?

[Mall]

You could take Thug off and put Jermaine Dupree There's.

[Rory]

Let me see what Carol King wrote.

[Mall]

Just. Just starting there. Don't do. We're not doing that. We not doing that.

[Rory]

Rick James, man.

[Mall]

Living, living, living.

[Rory]

Oh, yeah, my bad. Or is he. Then where's Tupac?

[Baby D]

I just. Having Taylor Swift on the same list as Diane Warren is bothering me.

[Mall]

She's American and she's a songwriter, and she's one of the best American songwriters. That's it.

[Baby D]

Taylor Swift is not a better writer than Jermaine Dupri or Brian Michael.

[Mall]

I'm not saying she is. I'm just saying if you're making an American songwriters list, Taylor Swift is on there.

[Rory]

One would argue she'd be one or two.

[Mall]

Like, it just is what it is.

[Rory]

From what we understand, for the most part, Taylor Swift writes all her own music. We've. I think all of us said on this podcast, like, Taylor Swift's music isn't really for us, but you can respect that. Somebody has a good pen. Like, 100%. Yeah.

[Mall]

You can be 8 years old or 80 years old, and you can sing a Taylor Swift song.

[Rory]

If you're that big and you're writing your own music. Yeah. You deserve. She's like, one or two.

[Peach]

Okay.

[Rory]

Like, would you not say the same thing? Like, Bad Bunny writes all his. His own music and is that big? Like, what's the same thing? To me? They're. They're both like, two biggest artists and

[Baby D]

they write their own Bad Bunny's music because I don't speak to. Speaking of damn Spanish. So I don't know how good the words are to the song because I don't speak Spanish. I know it's good enough for me to bump, even though I don't understand what he's saying. So I can't give him. I can't give him or take away his credit because I don't understand what he's saying.

[Rory]

I'm really not making a joke here. I promise. Vibes Cartel. You can make a huge case to be on this list.

[Mall]

American.

[Rory]

He. Come on.

[Mall]

And if they say American, how's Bad Bunny there?

[Rory]

Puerto Rico.

[Mall]

What are we doing?

[Baby D]

Puerto Rico is America.

[Mall]

What are we doing?

[Baby D]

Puerto Rico is America.

[Rory]

You ask, what are we doing?

[Mall]

What are we doing? That's all I'm asking, but I get it.

[Caller/Guest]

All right.

[Mall]

Cool vibes, though. No, that's. Jamaica's not America.

[Rory]

I mean, he's been to America.

[Mall]

Oh, for sure. Definitely.

[Rory]

No, I keep forgetting it's the. The American part. Well, no, I mean, this. I. I like that a publication is. Is honoring songwriters. I think that that's important. It's something that we can argue about. That's not like gossipy. And this actually has some type of substance to it. But I mean, my favorite comment here is no LeBron question mark.

[Mall]

LeBron Rice.

[Rory]

You wrote that whole Two Chains album.

[Baby D]

This Rory said, what did Carole King write? You make me feel like a natural woman wrote that.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Baby D]

I mean, she better than every song that. That they will ever put on the list, probably.

[Rory]

She was definitely not Hand in Hand in the Beverly Center. Not Karen. Who saw her Come on. Miss me with that Jermaine Dupree and

[Mall]

Brian Michael Cox not being on this list. Crazy.

[Baby D]

Absolutely. That's. Yeah, but you have to remember who's writing the list.

[Mall]

So, I mean, they got Young Thug on there.

[Rory]

That's who he represents.

[Baby D]

The whole genre would grab. But that's who they would grab before

[Mall]

Jermaine is in Atlanta too.

[Rory]

Like, if you go grabs out of

[Mall]

Atlanta, you'll grab Thug before Jermaine and Brian Michael Cox. I'm just saying, man, listen.

[Rory]

But I. If they're doing it based off like Thug representing a whole sub genre of a huge genre, I think Future would be the representation of that before Thugwood. But that's just. That's just me.

[Mall]

No future on this list.

[Baby D]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Like if you're saying Jay Z represents a whole group of rappers and his peers and they just want to put one there, I get that. Same with Outkast, Kendrick as well, representing that. That era, I'd put Future over thug in in a heartbeat because I mean I think Doug would say he got a lot of shit from future but

[Baby D]

yeah, no worry about Mall Boost Mobile

[Rory]

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[Baby D]

I think that the major. I think that the majority of the rappers on this list can be left off if there's only 30 spots. There's way more complex songs than rap songs and writers who have written those songs that could be on there.

[Rory]

Personally, are you shocked there's no Eminem on here?

[Baby D]

No, not.

[Rory]

Not my. Not my cup of candy, but I could totally. I'd be fine if I saw Eminem's name on this list. As far as writers.

[Mall]

Yeah. I'm just saying they got Young Thug on.

[Baby D]

I'm not going by there.

[Rory]

I'm.

[Baby D]

Young thugs don't need to be on. A couple people don't need to be on there. So I don't just want to pick on Thug. I'm not.

[Mall]

I'm just saying if they got. We could have went. Nas could have went m. Eminem, Jermaine Dupree.

[Baby D]

Like, oh, y' all are just saying to replace a rapper, it's a place to replace Young Thug with another rapper.

[Rory]

Those rappers.

[Baby D]

Okay, all right.

[Rory]

But you. I mean, you would not put Eminem on a songwriter's list.

[Baby D]

I'm the 30 greatest songwriters that are living. No, I would not put Eminem on it. I don't think that that's the crazy.

[Rory]

That's where he's rechecks. He checks sales. He checks actual complex lyrics. He checks substance.

[Mall]

He's the songwriter on all of these records.

[Baby D]

Like, y' all, listen.

[Rory]

He's written for other people.

[Mall]

Yeah, I'm. I don't know. Again, I don't know the criteria for the list, but Eminem should be on the American songwriters list.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Like, what are we saying? Like, he's Eminem. Like, he don't. The music don't play where we at. You go to these stadiums around the world. His music is playing there.

[Baby D]

There's a lot of music that plays a lot of places that sells a lot of records. That doesn't mean that it's always. That doesn't mean that it's good. Like. Like, that's my thing. Like, greatest songwriters just because something sells a lot. And I'm not even. Y' all are making me. I don't even want to shit. I. Eminem. Y' all are making me.

[Mall]

You don't gotta shit on him to make your point.

[Baby D]

My point is in the 30. There are only 30 spots living.

[Mall]

And I'm saying Young Thug made it.

[Baby D]

I'm not talking about their list. I said we've been. They got shit wrong. What I'm saying is your list. My question was to you, to both of you. On Your list of 30 greatest songwriters of all time, is Eminem making your list? And Rory said, yes.

[Mall]

American living songwriters, 30.

[Baby D]

Yes.

[Rory]

No, I said I'd be completely fine if he was on the New York.

[Baby D]

Then I asked you, is he making your list? I directly asked you.

[Rory]

I'm sorry that I misunderstood you. No, my personal list. No.

[Baby D]

Okay.

[Rory]

But I am. When you check every single box for the masses, I think you should belong to be like, you should be up there. I mean, Fauntleroy James could definitely be up there.

[Baby D]

That's somebody that I would put on mine.

[Mall]

Yeah, I'm just.

[Baby D]

But you know, everybody has different ideas of what great songs are. I think you can sell millions of records and it not be a great song. I just. But that's my personal opinion. And that's not. That's. M is not who I am targeting with that statement.

[Rory]

I feel terrible because I definitely thought Bob Dylan was dead. And not only is he alive, he's playing Forest Hill Stadium soon. He's still thriving.

[Mall]

He's still working, still out here, kicking ass.

[Rory]

84 years old and is on tour right now all of July. He's on tour. That's amazing. And I agree that Bob Dylan should definitely be on this list as far as writers go. But he's doing like full tours.

[Mall]

Yeah. Come on, man.

[Rory]

You got like 25 year old artists that won't do these many dates.

[Mall]

Yeah, that's crazy. Bob still out there kicking ass.

[Rory]

Yeah, no, that. That's kind of.

[Baby D]

Yo, it's so funny when you like start looking up, like, who these people are, because it's like, oh, this name doesn't look familiar to me. Like, I just looked up Valerie Simpson and she wrote Ain't no Mountain High Enough and I'm every woman. Like, so those are the people that are on the list with Young Thug. The people who wrote Ain't no Mountain High Enough. And I'm every woman. It ain't nothing like the real thing.

[Mall]

What are we doing saying

[Rory]

I'm probably only talking to Peach at this point, But James Taylor, I think, should be up there. James Taylor. If we're. We're talking folk and rock and roll,

[Mall]

who's the dude?

[Rory]

He did the intro to J. Cole's album Damaris, so you have to agree with me.

[Baby D]

Oh, okay.

[Rory]

Got a classic in. Remember the Titans. Come on.

[Mall]

What's. Who wrote I will Always love you?

[Baby D]

Diane Warren, if I'm not mistaken.

[Mall]

Oh, no.

[Baby D]

Dolly Parton wrote it. You're right. You are right. I'm sorry.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Baby D]

That's a different Whitney song that Diane wrote.

[Rory]

Yeah. Dolly Parton wrote I Will Always love you in 1973.

[Baby D]

Yeah. It was originally her song.

[Mall]

Okay.

[Rory]

Yeah. Oh, no. If. I don't think anyone's arguing that Dolly Parton should be on this list. She has hits. Well, there was another list. Consequence. Not the rapper. As Damaris asked me off mic, the publication Consequence put out a list. That's just such a funny reply. You saw consequences top 100, best vocalists, and Tamara said the rapper.

[Mall]

Best vocalist.

[Rory]

Okay, they did top 100 of all time. I mean, should we just start with the 20?

[Mall]

Is this in order? Or you just.

[Rory]

This is an order. 1. 1 through 100.

[Mall]

This is in order.

[Rory]

In order. 1.

[Mall]

They said this is order.

[Rory]

Yes.

[Mall]

Okay.

[Rory]

On. On the site. You can even go through 90. 91 to 100. 81 to 90.

[Mall]

Okay.

[Rory]

This is. This is in order. We can start with the top 20. Freddie Mercury, Aretha Franklin, Whitney Houston. Freddie Mercury is the greatest vocalist of all time.

[Mall]

Okay.

[Rory]

Number three. Whitney Houston. Marvin Gaye, Robert Plant, Beyonce, Ella Fitzgerald, Mike Patton, Michael Jackson, HR Rory Orbison, Nina Simone, Rob Hillford, Ray Charles, Mariah Carey, Hank Williams, James Brown, Adele, Chris Cornell, and Kendrick lamar. At number 20. Number 21 is Sam Cook. I just want to put that into context. I hate the perception of this podcast because everything's gonna come across as hate. Curtis Mayfield is at 43, not at number 20. And listen, I am. I'm happy that Consequence included rappers into the best vocalists top 100, because I think vocals are a huge part of hip hop, especially now with melodic hip hop. I think they are great. Like DMX at 32.

[Baby D]

DMX is better than. Than Luther Vandross. This is rage bait.

[Rory]

Like, they're.

[Baby D]

I've never heard of these people before. That's why I was like, Consequence who?

[Rory]

He's pivoting. Nah, we got rappers do media now. What do you want from them?

[Baby D]

We gotta stop addressing every list. But I'm not addressing.

[Rory]

If this didn't go, like, viral. Viral, I wouldn't be Addressing this. Right.

[Mall]

I'm just letting you guys understand why it went viral. Like, you. You get it.

[Baby D]

You're one of the reasons it's going viral. You add until it's virality.

[Mall]

This is crazy. I don't even need it. Once I saw the top 20, I was cool. Like, I might.

[Rory]

Good.

[Mall]

I'm good. I don't need to see the rest of this list.

[Rory]

I mean, they. They included all genres. I think that's. I think it's important that inclusivity hip hop does need to be.

[Mall]

Yes.

[Rory]

It needs to be awarded for its vocals. I just think the term vocalist and traditional vocalist should be the top 50 at least.

[Mall]

Okay, got you, got you.

[Rory]

But I mean, how do you guys feel about the top? Let's go top 10 before we start getting it to a really weird place. Freddie Mercury, Aretha Franklin, Winnie, Houston Marvin.

[Mall]

Freddie Mercury is not the greatest vocalist of all time.

[Rory]

Where we see up in our draft because we did a male vocalist and female vocalist draft on Patreon.

[Mall]

Mercury was there.

[Rory]

No, he's definitely there.

[Mall]

He's not number one. None of us picked him number one.

[Rory]

He was like a solid fifth rounder, I think. Yeah. Six rounder, maybe.

[Mall]

Great voice, but the greatest. Number one all time. No.

[Baby D]

Who would y' all put number one greatest vocalist?

[Rory]

It's between Whitney and Aretha and Michael for me. And we. We had this conversation on Patreon. I know this is definitely a trolling list, but Michael at 9 is. I think people are so used to Michael Jackson's voice, they don't realize how good he's singing. Like Michael is. Is top three.

[Mall]

I mean. Yeah, you can also add Stevie into that conversation, obviously. Luther Vandross. Yeah. It's just so many other names that we could have to talk about. The number one slot, aside from Freddie Mercury. Freddie Mercury had a great voice. No, no one vocalist.

[Rory]

We.

[Mall]

Now we know why this went viral.

[Rory]

Busta Rhymes is over.

[Mall]

Prince, another great vocalist. Prince.

[Rory]

I'm just saying, you wanna know. You wanna know where Celine Dion is?

[Mall]

Another one that could.

[Rory]

49.

[Mall]

Yeah. Come on. Naturally, you know who number 20 is.

[Baby D]

Yeah, I'm cool, dog. I only want to discuss lists now. When they make at least a little bit of a scent. Like when I feel okay arguing it like the top songwriters. I was okay arguing with that. It has some stupid on it, but I was okay arguing it. This is just rage bait.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mall]

I'm not. They not gonna get me to argue with this.

[Rory]

Yeah, it is funny, though.

[Mall]

No, it's very funny. But yeah, they can have it, I think.

[Rory]

Hold on, let me see if they gave the credit. It looks like Torre put this. This list together for consequence. Yeah, this was a Torre thing. That checks out.

[Baby D]

Oh, wait, you're being serious.

[Rory]

No, I'm not.

[Baby D]

Oh,

[Rory]

but you guys believed it? Because that would make sense. USA Today Top 25 Greatest Basketball Players of all time. We are staying on list today.

[Mall]

Oh, God.

[Rory]

Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Steph Curry, Karimo Dudrabar, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Bill Russell.

[Mall]

Wait, wait, is this in order?

[Rory]

Shaquille o', Neal, Tim Duncan, Katie Allen Iverson, Oscar Robinson, L. Gene Baylor, Jerry West, Julius Irving, Moses Malone, Cameron Garnett, Charles Barkley, Carl Malone, David Robinson, Isaiah Thomas, and I mean, you know, where you at, Mom. This isn't too far off of yours, though.

[Baby D]

I'm happy they don't got that cheater on there.

[Mall]

Who's the cheater?

[Rory]

Clay is a Hall of Famer. He's not going to be in the top 25.

[Mall]

Clay will be top 25 of us.

[Baby D]

No, I wouldn't think that. That's why I just said. I'm just happy he's not on there.

[Rory]

I'm sure someone on this list has cheated, though. I can.

[Mall]

Just a guess. Yeah, I'm not mad at.

[Rory]

Actually rest in peace to one of them. They'd had press conference because of it.

[Mall]

This is not. This is. Yeah, no, my list looks a lot different from that, but I. I'm not mad at it.

[Rory]

Well, you were early on having Stefan in your. In your top five before it was

[Mall]

trendy to say Steph Curry is definitely a top five player of all time.

[Rory]

No, now that's. I think people say that regularly, but you were the first person I heard say that, which I wasn't against.

[Mall]

Yeah, he's top five. I could argue that. Toughest. Steph is top four, actually.

[Rory]

But, I mean, they have him at four.

[Baby D]

They have my four.

[Rory]

But you're. You're a. You're a Michael Kobe.

[Baby D]

Ma, don't do it. Ma. Want to put Steph higher than LeBron.

[Rory]

I think he said that publicly before.

[Mall]

Yeah, that's not a. He's dominated LeBron. What are you talking about? That's not a. That's not like a. I'm not. Yeah, he's definitely top. He's definitely above LeBron for me, for sure.

[Baby D]

Can you clip this so that he gets yelled at in the comments the way I do? Thanks.

[Mall]

Why would I get.

[Rory]

But make sure you have Damaris pointing like that. Yeah.

[Mall]

Personally. Yeah, I got Steph over LeBron definitely. I got Kobe over LeBron too.

[Baby D]

That part too.

[Mall]

I've said this though. Dimash is saying no.

[Baby D]

I know, I know. I just want it all clipped in one convo.

[Rory]

But I mean Kobe over LeBron isn't like a crazy. That's a 5050 debate. No one will look at you nuts saying that. Most people agree with you there. But I don't know how many people say Steph is above LeBron.

[Mall]

He's literally dominated LeBron. If they. When they met in the finals. That is true.

[Rory]

Like, Cause of Klay Thompson.

[Mall]

Yeah, like, I mean, Steph is. Sorry.

[Rory]

It's kind of a fact though.

[Mall]

It's, you know Steph, just as he doesn't have an ego. If Steph had an ego, like when he walked around acting like he was the best player, they would drug test him after every game. You would have to.

[Baby D]

If he acted like who that nigga who Downfall preyed on and he tore his acl had Halliburton. If he acted that type of light skinned.

[Rory]

Don't do that.

[Baby D]

If he acted like Halliburton, he's just a competitor. So ego. I didn't say it's a bad thing. It's a basketball players have egos.

[Rory]

Well, you think LeBron has an ego?

[Mall]

Yo, Rory, stop playing with me, man.

[Rory]

What you be.

[Mall]

Don't ask me a question to turn you.

[Rory]

It was a luck of the draw with his son going over.

[Mall]

Yeah, Steph, to me he's a reader. I got him a little hiding. I got him and I got Shaq in my top five.

[Rory]

So I don't think that's crazy to say as far as dominance. I mean numbers. Yeah, maybe you could argue, but LeBron

[Mall]

is to me is probably top seven.

[Baby D]

Oh my God.

[Rory]

You replaced the great white hope.

[Mall]

But I've said this before. I think LeBron is probably 7 on my list all time. I got Shaq before him for sure. I got Magic before him definitely. Why I've said that before. I'm. Bro, I've been saying this for years. It's not something that like different that I'm saying. I've been saying that like on my personal list. Yeah, I got him at probably seven.

[Rory]

Nah, they. They did Brunson. Dirty Brunson.

[Mall]

Yeah, McCullum did do them dirty. McCullum been frying his ass up.

[Rory]

Chill, relax. I did this. Get a lot of traffic. I don't know why. Again, this, this week was the week of the list. I just saw this in passing. I didn't see very many people Arguing through this.

[Baby D]

But can we do biggest dick suckers in the culture? Can we do that list?

[Rory]

Jesus Christ.

[Baby D]

My bad. I'm sorry.

[Rory]

I'm like, God, who?

[Mall]

You got a number one? Just give me your top two now.

[Baby D]

I'm cool, dog. Why?

[Mall]

Just give me your top two.

[Baby D]

Understood. Doesn't need to be explained.

[Mall]

But sometimes you got to explain why you making your case, though. That's all I'm saying.

[Baby D]

I'm okay. I want a peaceful summer.

[Rory]

Why?

[Mall]

Why wouldn't you have a peace every May?

[Baby D]

I don't every May. For the past three years, I haven't had a peaceful start to my summer. This May. I want a peaceful summer.

[Mall]

Okay.

[Baby D]

I want peaceful summer. But I'm just saying be sucking wild dick.

[Rory]

Jesus.

[Baby D]

Sorry, my bad.

[Rory]

Is there like another way to word

[Baby D]

that

[Rory]

so it's not so homoerotic, like just passionate? Disproportionately passionate. Disproportionately, Disproportionately blind love.

[Mall]

You being disproportionately passionate right now. Like, I think you need to calm down.

[Baby D]

Hating.

[Mall]

Hey, I guess hating I can't do that.

[Baby D]

Hating ain't strong.

[Rory]

Wait, I thought, I thought dick sucking was the opposite of hating.

[Baby D]

Nah, they be. It's one in the same.

[Rory]

I've. I've never had a girl stuck my dick and she hating on me right now.

[Mall]

I want her to hate me some more than hate me every day.

[Baby D]

You know how good the dick suck be when a hate. You think about it.

[Rory]

Yeah, but she's not hating. She hates me, but she's not hating

[Mall]

that I'm on the other side.

[Baby D]

Or when she hates somebody else, so she starts sucking your dick. That's hip hop.

[Mall]

She hates somebody else when she start.

[Baby D]

She hate that other. So she take it all out and start gripping you up just because she hate the other. That's what hip hop media has become.

[Mall]

Okay.

[Rory]

I mean, it's a weird comparison, but okay.

[Baby D]

No, I think it makes perfect sense to me.

[Mall]

Yeah, I think in your head that makes sense. I'm trying to.

[Baby D]

It don't make sense that you haven't seen nobody else hating on somebody else so much that they start like, slurping up their competitor.

[Mall]

Oh, yeah.

[Rory]

I just wish we could use other adjectives, like, let's just find other ways.

[Baby D]

I'm with you. Right. Because when you had the homoerotic conversation, like, why is everything so homoerotic? But you really can't. There's. There's no comparison, like, to just you niggas is dick suckers. There's no comparison. Like, I haven't found an equivalent.

[Rory]

You're being passionately weird over a stranger. Somebody you don't know does not care about you.

[Baby D]

They don't hit the same. Just like saying, like, hey, leave me alone. Don't hit the same as blow to grip it. Don't hit the same.

[Mall]

She makes a point. Sometimes you just got to get right to it.

[Baby D]

Do I get right to it?

[Mall]

Let's not put too many words in there and make it a word salad. No, just get right to it.

[Rory]

We're trying to make the 30 greatest writers of all time. Less is more. If you can say more with less words, get right to it. It's the entendres that Hove was talking. Yeah, no, I got you. I mean, will we be that way in the comments? French Montana versus Rick Ross versus May 7th. Because we needed this.

[Mall]

Didn't Rick Ross already do versus?

[Rory]

Yes, with two chains.

[Mall]

So what are the versus rules now? You could do, like, multiple.

[Baby D]

You do multiverse.

[Rory]

I mean, Kiss did it solo and deluxe, but that's different. What is it?

[Baby D]

Mortal Kombat? Like, you just.

[Rory]

Yeah, this didn't work for this. This person. So let me see. BMF against someone else.

[Mall]

Yeah, I'm. I'm, I'm. I think I'm done with Versus.

[Caller/Guest]

Man.

[Mall]

This is. This is now becoming a little. It's corny now.

[Rory]

I, I.

[Mall]

The Tank Tyrese one I like, though.

[Baby D]

You like that?

[Mall]

Only because it was so performative. Like, it was just, like, away from.

[Baby D]

Oh, it was entertaining. It was entertaining. I get that. I get that. Tyrese and Tank are both entertainers.

[Rory]

Yeah. I just don't. I don't know who asked for this. And I, I like French Montana and Rick Ross a lot. And if this was during COVID maybe I probably would have been a little bit more excited. I just don't. The Ross and two chains. One was cool. Two chains kept up way crazier than I thought he would. I mean, French has a bunch of hits. Everyone already knows how we feel about Ross's catalog. I just don't. Like, I don't know. Instead of what day is May 7th? Is it a Friday? Drake featuring Drake versus is hilarious.

[Baby D]

I mean,

[Rory]

May 7th is a Thursday. I just feel like on a Thursday night, you could just go out and hear French Montana and Rick Ross instead of having to watch this. Like, instead of just watching them rap over the the track. Like, just, I don't know, go to Dyckman. Like, do you need to sit at home and watch this? Is this Going to be that great of a performance from these two.

[Mall]

A celebration of the biggest club anthems ever.

[Rory]

They both got them. I'm not saying that there's not going to be amazing songs played, but yeah,

[Mall]

but I didn't I don't want to see this version shout out to French and and Roster. But as a Versus, Rick Ross and

[Baby D]

French Montana are both very entertaining to me, so I think I might watch.

[Rory]

Do Swiz and Timberland have any stake in this anymore? Do they sell everything?

[Baby D]

They sold it.

[Rory]

You know, I think this is, this is, this is, this is when you have execs that literally understand nothing that happens on the Internet. Of course, when Versus hit during COVID the numbers were insane. When they went to was a Triller and did that partnership, it was absolutely nuts. The data was nuts. And a bunch of execs saw that and Swizz and Timberland did the smartest thing ever, knowing people were going to go back outside and sold it at its peak. And a bunch of execs looked at that and said, look, the urban culture loves us. Look at the data. And now they spent a whole bunch of fucking money and now they're sitting here like, all right, at the end of the quarter with this investment that I just bought this, we have to do something. So they're just scrambling to pick whatever just to justify buying the shit.

[Baby D]

Let me correct you.

[Rory]

I'm here to be corrected.

[Baby D]

Yes. So Swiss Beats and Timberland did did sell it to Triller but Triller wasn't making the payment so they took it back and partnered with Elon Musk X. Okay, but it's maintain full ownership and

[Rory]

creative because Ebro does like post game commentary. It's all Apple stuff is where usually I think it was just in the trailer as well.

[Baby D]

I mean that might have been a partnership.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Baby D]

But no Swizz beats and timberland versus strike versus deal with Elon Musk in 2024 and ever since then Swiss Beats

[Rory]

in oh, so we think Elon probably picked this one, right?

[Baby D]

No.

[Rory]

In the midst of Swiss Beats and

[Baby D]

Timberland have full creative control.

[Rory]

Okay, well either way I think they're probably moved on to other things and oh, we got to do that this month under our obligations.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

But Apple has had some type of stake in this for quite some time. Like there's no question they had exclusive rights to it. I I as far as forward facing to a consumer, it's looked like it's been an Apple play this entire time. I'm not sure what the actual business logistics Are. I haven't seen it on X at all. This has always been an apple thing, in my opinion.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Host by Ebro.

[Mall]

Like the last one I watched on. I think I watched that on. On X. Was it in Rice? Tyrese? Tank Tyrese.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

But I mean, either way, apologies if we're getting the actual background of this. Incorrect. I don't know. I just feel like we. We move past it and everyone's just saving face. The people that made their money made their money. Do we still think all the artists that participated in it still have a percentage in it?

[Baby D]

The first 30 did. The first 30 have equity.

[Rory]

Gotcha. Well, I mean, either way, shout out to Swizz and Timberland. They.

[Baby D]

I'm not mad at them. Like, I can understand it. Not. I don't think it does anything bad for the culture. If you don't like it, you don't like it. I think it is cute and cool and if the artists are getting a bag from it.

[Rory]

No, I watch no limit cash Money. Like, I watch the whole thing.

[Baby D]

Yeah.

[Rory]

You know, it just obviously doesn't have the allure because we're all outside now. Doesn't mean you can't keep pushing the brand that. That you made so big in the last three years. But, yeah, I don't know. It's just I. Ross and French is like, come on, we already had Ross and whatever.

[Baby D]

I think the time to get the. They want the big. The big people. And I think the time to get that has passed because the heat has died down. So I don't think it'll ever be bigger than what it was as far as, like, the artists that they have.

[Rory]

So do you think that they'll. To me, this. This also is an eye opener of how everyone on the versus staff looks at younger artists. Because if we're. If we're doing a repeat with Ross just to go against French, like, all right, why not? Baby verse gonna. I think they just know it's gonna look like a Chrysler pulling up to a Bentley. When you look at the old performances of verses with legends and, you know, real talent that has been performing for quite some time. Not on backtracks. And I say gun. I know Gunna has an incredible show. I'm just using a younger generation as an example. This would be a show if the younger generation got a hold of it.

[Mall]

I just don't. I just don't get why. Like, why French versus Rick Ross. That's what I'm thinking about. Like, why.

[Baby D]

I'm just assuming they would be the the only ones that agree to it. I feel like it's probably like the Super Bowl. You send invitations to everybody and whoever.

[Rory]

No, it's just like the Super Bowl.

[Mall]

I don't. I don't feel. I have. I have. I have thoughts, but what are your thoughts? I'll just wait till May 7th.

[Baby D]

We'll talk May 8th, I think.

[Mall]

Yeah, we'll talk about it after the verses.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Mall]

But it's. It's very interesting that they chose those two gentlemen.

[Baby D]

I don't think that's a weird matchup, though.

[Mall]

It's not. It's just the timing of it. Why Maul. Like, why? What.

[Baby D]

What are your thoughts? I'm dying to know your thoughts.

[Mall]

No, I said I'm. We'll talk about it after the verses. I just have to see, like, after

[Rory]

you see their set list.

[Mall]

No, it's not. We. Well, we can kind of like, know what they're selling. Yeah. If it's the. Gone. Just off the announcement of the biggest club anthems ever. A celebration of the biggest club. So we know what the set list is going to look like. But just the timing of it all and just like, why. Why those two artists. Just a little.

[Rory]

We'll see. Did you guys believe this? This? I thought it was a little clickbaity, but they put a. A Quavo IG story and an Offset IG story around the same time, put it together and said that they're hinting at a potential Migos reunion album. Cuevo posted him and Takeoff, and then Offset had posted the three of them and said on that. So I'm not saying people are crazy for grabbing at that. If Offset's posting the three of them and not just him and Takeoff,

[Peach]

but,

[Rory]

I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of Takeoff verses that still exist. Him and Quavo. I think we're working on their second joint project at that time. I'm here for it. Obviously, it wouldn't be the same Sauce if the three of them are not together in the studio, but if. If Offset and Quavo can get back on a human level and become family again, I think it would be nice to see one of the greatest rap groups ever put another album up.

[Mall]

Hey, I would like to see them work together again. Offset's album wasn't bad.

[Rory]

Yeah. Also doesn't make bad.

[Baby D]

Also doesn't make bad.

[Mall]

Yeah. His album they put out, it wasn't bad.

[Rory]

And Uncle Nephew was. Was great. And I'm just assuming that there's probably a lot of records for that second one that they were working on when takeoff.

[Mall]

Oh, they definitely got a lot of music left over. Sure.

[Rory]

Mall. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock bet, the official sportsbook partner of the Orlando Magic, which you already knew. And speaking of the Magic, they are back in the NBA playoffs. Yes sir, so are our Knicks. But the lights are brighter now, Mo, and the pressure is higher. Every possession can change a series as we've seen with our beloved New York Knicks. And ma, as you say, let's get the party started. Win or go home. Energy on the hardwood. I love, I love building same game parlays. You might like the hot hand and drop 30, the big man to control the glass with a double double and the point guard to dish out 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 assists. However you draw it up, Hard Rock Bet gives you tons of ways to stack your picks into a same game parlay built for all this playoff action every single night.

[Mall]

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[Baby D]

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[Mall]

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[Daniel Cormier]

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[Mall]

Do we have voicemails?

[Baby D]

Yep.

[Peach]

You've got mail order fellas and Baby D. Real quick, this Marcus from Houston. I got a quick question for y'. All.

[Rory]

I got Marcus, what y' all were

[Peach]

doing in the situation. So I got a partner. He been dating this girl probably about a month and a half, two months, he said. But he said he'd been knowing her for like two years. They've been cool for two years. He said that she gotta like, ain't baby daddy. The baby is young but, you know, like nine years old. But he ain't really been in her life for a long time, I tell you. And she'd be trying to, like, do everything to make sure that her daughter knows her father. So she, you know, always trying to make sure that he sees her. They went out of the state for her. Her and her daughter went out of the state for a cheerleader competition. And her baby father was going to meet them so they can, you know, he could see the. Her daughter. Her daughter or whatever. Anyway, he ended up staying in a room with her, with both of them. The daughter and what in a girl? And she. She said nothing happened. He told her he. She told him nothing happened to her, to a boyfriend. Nothing happened to my partner, my Partner was like, man, he had a problem with it. I was like, man, dog, break up with her. It's too early for you to be dealing with baby daddy break up with her. But he said he really like her. He trying to find out should he break up with her or shouldn't he break up with her. She said nothing happened. The only reason that she wanted him to stay in a room is because he's a. And he was gonna try to like have girls all in his room and not spend time with the daughter at all. She kind of did this to kind of force him to spend time with her. Do y' all think that he.

[Rory]

All right. I was actually going to be mature about this one until the end. The end is now making me feel a little suspect about the entire thing. I get a cheerleading competition. If he's trying to get back in his daughter's life, it can be expensive. All three all staying in one hotel. Sometimes that comes with the territory of co parenting and everything going on. Maybe he slept on the couch. Whatever. It's. It's the daughter's in the room. Nothing's gonna happen. But if the reason was so he didn't have a bunch of in his room.

[Baby D]

That's not what he said.

[Rory]

Now. Now what do we talk? And I want. I want you to spend more time. What is he gonna do at a cheerleading competition besides spend time with his daughter?

[Baby D]

That's not that. That's not the idea I got from it. The idea I got from it was like he said, he's a. He gets distracted easily. Nah. N. Stay in this room and so that you can get your. Because this is the thing. It's the same thing with people who don't live with their kids. Sometimes that people complain about the. Okay, you're at the cheer competition. Yay. But you're not there for the getting. Already running around to do this, running around to do that, making sure this is set, pumping her up before calming down the. The hysterics. Or like that. You just sitting in the crowd as a spectator. No. You're going to be an active parent. We stand in this room together. We waking up on time together. I can understand that.

[Rory]

Get a room across the hall then. If it's for that and not like

[Baby D]

a financial reason, but if he's easily distracted by bitches.

[Rory]

It's a nine year old cheerleading competition.

[Baby D]

But what does that have to do with the city they're in? Like that doesn't. It's not about the cheerleading competition. It's about the before and the after, he's not going to be in the hotel room during the cheerleading competition.

[Rory]

Stay in this room until your daughter goes to sleep and then go across the hall to your shit.

[Baby D]

Okay, but you're not. I don't think you understand.

[Rory]

Like, I was actually going to start with saying, hey, this is just part of co. Parents. You got to deal with that if you're dealing with a girl that has a child. But if the reason is because he gets easily distracted, get the fuck out of here.

[Mall]

Yeah, that. That makes no sense.

[Rory]

Crazy.

[Baby D]

I don't think that all I'm going off him saying that he's a fuck nigga, and she's trying to get him to be more active in his daughter's life.

[Caller/Guest]

And.

[Rory]

And you don't sleep in my room,

[Mall]

so let's sleep in the show.

[Rory]

So what's he gonna get distracted by? An air.

[Baby D]

No, there are all. I'm off assumptions. I do not know these people. What I'm going to assume if she's making a rule like that, that he's the type of nigga that'll tuck his daughter in, go out, get drunk, have a bunch of bitches wake up late to the cheerleading competition, not be present, not be one of those. Something that somebody who's easily distracted by the lust demon, who will be involved in a whole bunch of shit.

[Mall]

So stay in a room with me so you don't get distracted by the lust demon.

[Baby D]

If he put it. Okay, never mind. I'm not. No, we forget who I'm talking to sometimes. Okay.

[Mall]

And not about forgetting who you talking to. That makes no sense.

[Baby D]

I don't. Okay.

[Rory]

To you.

[Baby D]

It doesn't make sense.

[Mall]

It doesn't make sense to this nigga that called in and left a voicemail to the nigga that went through it. It don't make sense. And to a father that's sitting right here. Don't make sense to him either.

[Rory]

All right, If I have the lust demon, right? Let's say it's in Dallas, this cheerleading competition, and I have to be put in the room with my baby mother. I'm like Denzel in flight. You got a monitor.

[Baby D]

You would naturally.

[Rory]

I would wait until my baby mother and daughter went to sleep and I would sneak out of the room and go out if I wanted to go out. Like, staying in the same room is not changing you. Not going outside to get drunk.

[Mall]

No.

[Baby D]

Like, okay.

[Mall]

At all.

[Baby D]

Okay.

[Mall]

If you want to go out, he gonna go out. Yeah, like, that's not. No.

[Rory]

But then knock on his door at 7am yo, it's time to. Time to get up.

[Mall]

Yeah, like if that's the case, then you just got an ain't shit baby father. But like him staying in a room with you.

[Baby D]

But she said that that's what.

[Rory]

That was the whole premise.

[Mall]

That ain't changing nothing. Staying in the room with you. Like, if it's down to that, like, then listen, you got to find another way. Or like you said to the told his homie, yo, listen man, this is too soon for you to be going through baby father shit.

[Baby D]

That I agree with.

[Mall]

Like, just like if it makes you

[Baby D]

feel uncomfortable, I agree with that.

[Mall]

I do think it's staying in the same room with him. Like, nah.

[Rory]

Because again, I think with the co parenting shit, at some point, if you're not on the holiday terms with your new girlfriend, because that takes a little while, you're gonna have to deal with your girl and her baby father maybe being at Christmas together and somebody sleeping on the couch, like that's gonna happen. And you. That's just part of dating somebody with a kid. But this. No get a different room. We got to do this because of his lust demon and alcohol addiction.

[Baby D]

Yeah, no, I, but I don't.

[Rory]

Then he's not ready to be around your daughter anymore.

[Baby D]

But you're, but you're a co. But you're a co parent. You not get in no separate room with. With the person you're co parent. You might get a separate bed, doubles, but you're not getting no separate room.

[Rory]

Well, I have the means to be able to do that. And if she was dating somebody, I would definitely respect that in a heartbeat.

[Baby D]

But that's not her to respect. That's not on him. He don't. That's not on him. That's not her to respect. That's not hard at that boundary. He might not even know she dating somebody. They just started dating.

[Rory]

I, I agree. So that's where I think Marcus kind of has a point to his friend

[Baby D]

and it's too early to be dealing with that. I agree with Marcus on that one, but I don't think, I don't think that just because they stayed in the same room that that naturally means I. It's some sneaky going on. I'm not.

[Rory]

But no, I, I agree with you. And that was be going to, to be my stance before the end. I was going to say, yo, come on, their daughter's in there. Like, don't think that they. Like sometimes that's just what you have to do. I'm sure With a nine year old cheerleading competition, they had to pay their way. You got to pay for a uniform. You got to pay for travel. I'm sure that it'd be easier for the one night or two nights that were here to just stay. Let's just get that room and stay together. Nothing's happening. He don't even be around. Like, I don't even know this person like that. He just wants me back in his daughter's life. You just got to eat that because you're now dating somebody with a kid. That last part sounded weird. As. I'm scared he's just gonna go out and be with a bunch of bitches. That's crazy.

[Mall]

Well, my response would have been, yo, go get your family back. Go get your family back. Don't worry about me and you.

[Caller/Guest]

Ain't.

[Rory]

We ain't.

[Mall]

We just started dating for real.

[Baby D]

Oh, yeah. I wouldn't have dealt with that either.

[Mall]

Like, go get your family back. You know, like, work on your family. Like, go do that. I'm not gonna be sitting at home. The girl I'm dating is now in a hotel room with her baby father and her daughter's cheering competition out of town. Like, hell no.

[Baby D]

Yeah, but you're also the type where you would be if she came to you and said that it was for financial reasons. You'll be like, I get y' all your own separate room. You also. You have the means to do that.

[Mall]

Not everybody does stand in a hotel room with no baby father, but. Nah.

[Rory]

Especially if he's that ill that she's scared that he could just step out of a hotel room and get all the hoes.

[Mall]

Yeah, like, that's not.

[Rory]

Baby father ill as fuck.

[Mall]

Yeah, it's not. No, that's not. Just. It's not happening. Like, I get it. I understand in certain circumstances, but. Because he ain't shit and he gets distracted easily. That's what Like.

[Rory]

But I don't want to have a man around your child. I don't care if it's his child. You want to have a man around your child that can't even watch her cheerleading competition because he gets so distracted by alcohol and women, I don't think he's ready to be in her life. That's all I'm saying.

[Baby D]

No, I don't think that that's. I don't. I don't think that that makes him a bad. I don't think that that makes him a bad father. Even though they've already said, yeah, he said he's a. He's not that great.

[Mall]

He's a bad father.

[Rory]

If. If Amara was at her cheerleading competition and I couldn't sit still cuz I was thinking about. All I want to do is go.

[Baby D]

But it wasn't.

[Rory]

I'm not a good father.

[Baby D]

Okay?

[Rory]

I'm not here to judge anyone. I just like. I think that's a checklist.

[Baby D]

What I am saying, because I agree you need to leave that girl alone because obviously that makes him uncomfortable. I agree it's too early to be dealing with that, especially with lack of clarity. But what I am saying is how you guys are saying that doesn't make any sense to you. That can make sense to me. Of. Nah, nigga, I'm not just gonna be the parent and you just get to come show up and watch the thing. Now we parenting together and if I leave you alone to your own devices, you will go out, get drunk, have bitches in the room and not be focused on being a parent. I can understand that logic, but I completely agree with that he needs to leave her alone because that's just a messy situation. But I don't think her logic in that is crazy. Now I lay down in this room and we gonna be parents together.

[Rory]

No, granted, I think you're right. If you wanna be back in your daughter's life, that means you need to be back in her. You need to help get her ready, this and that. But if you need to baby your baby father to the point that you need to lock him in a room with you to do those things, I don't think he's ready to be back to be a parent. That's all I'm saying.

[Baby D]

But that doesn't.

[Rory]

Because what you're saying is correct. If you want to be back in life like you are, we up at 7am, we eating fucking oatmeal, and we're getting her cheer outfit together and we're getting her ready and focused, yes, if you want to be back in her life, you have to do those things. But if it requires me locking you in a room with me, I don't think you're ready.

[Baby D]

I mean, but that doesn't mean that he shouldn't be in his daughter's life. That like, just because he might not be ready to be a parent responsibly, but that doesn't mean that he shouldn't see his kid. Like, that's when people. Because there are some moms who think like that who are like, nah, you're not responsible enough. You can't have a relationship with my kid. And Then people demonize them. Like, why aren't you letting him see his daughter?

[Rory]

I'm not saying that those fathers should be demonized whatsoever. But I'm saying if the only way that you can be a parent is if your baby mother locks you in her house, I. I don't know if you're ready. It's like, I don't think that is

[Baby D]

technically being locked in. I just think it's like not leaving you to your own devices. She's not locking him in a room and standing in front of the door like, no, you can't go out. But it's like, ah, if you get bored. You don't make the best decisions when you're bored. Let's give you a little bit of structure. I think more adults deal with shit like that than we like to believe. Like, some people just do not do well without structure.

[Mall]

All right, Turn the table. You dating somebody, and I never said

[Baby D]

it was okay, so.

[Mall]

No, I'm just asking you what would be your. What would be your stance on that.

[Baby D]

But I already told you I'm not okay with it. I'm not arguing that I already told you I'm not okay with it. But I'm saying that I don't think that that means that it could. But I don't think that means that she wants him or that she needs to get her family back or anything like that. But I do agree that it's not for me and it's not for homie. It's way too early for that. He shouldn't be dealing with that. That's all. I think two people, two things can be true.

[Rory]

Yeah. Yeah. Listen, man, two things can be true. Thank for you. We have another voicemail.

[Mall]

Hey, what's up, Rory?

[Caller/Guest]

What's up, Mall? What's up, Baby D?

[Peach]

Peach.

[Caller/Guest]

It was cool meeting y' all at the meet and greet a couple weeks ago. Hopefully y' all do that again sometime in the summer. Hopefully. Maybe a rooftop or something. Be pretty nice.

[Rory]

Lust demon.

[Caller/Guest]

Not sure if you guys ever talked about the Diana Rossini Mike Vaebles situation when it dropped a couple weeks ago. Honestly, I'll be honest. Like, my first thoughts were just, like, the journalistic integrity of the whole thing. I didn't really care about the cheating part because who cares? Whatever cheating happens. But then those pictures dropped on draft day, which showed Mike Rabel and her at a bar in New York from six years ago. And then, like, more details started coming out saying that, yo, that was six months before her wedding. And then, like, a year or two later, she has her first child and then come to find out that first child's name is Michael. So I'm trying to, like, see, like, this girl kind of vile. Like, well, him and her are both kind of vile. And I'm like, yo, this shit is kind of like, this is worse than any fucking Megan Thee, Stallion, Klay Thompson, Scandal. Like, this shit is really crazy. Like, this girl got fired because of this whole thing. And then now this is the coach taking counseling lessons, all that, whatever they saying. But just want to get y' all thoughts about it. Love the pod.

[Mall]

Thank you for that.

[Rory]

Cte, man.

[Mall]

That's.

[Rory]

That's really what I. I think it's all.

[Mall]

CTE People are human, man. People attracted to each other. They work together, they see each other often. Like, it's. It's a natural thing. I get it's not supposed to happen because of the circumstances and, you know, we're in the workplace. But, like. Like, are we really surprised that humans had a human experience? Like, humans were attracted to each other. They're around each other all the time. Like, it happens, man.

[Baby D]

You don't just name your kid after your side. That just don't happen.

[Rory]

But what if. What if her brother, that past name was Michael? Or like, what if. What if it was just don't matter what she's supposed to step in and be like. Or let's say her husband wanted to name their son Michael because he changed his mind, and she's supposed to be

[Baby D]

like, no, change his mind. Tell her you hate the name Mike. Tell him you hate the name Michael.

[Rory]

But again, what if that's. What if Michael is his father's name and his father just passed and we gotta do Michael.

[Baby D]

III figure it out. You can't have the baby be named the same as the side nigga, because then shit like this comes out, and now the entire world is questioning the legitimacy of your child. Just change the name, bro.

[Rory]

It's balanced, man. The Patriot way. Remember? The Patriot Way. Very disciplined. Bill Belichick. Mike Vrabel, outside linebacker for the Patriots. Now the Patriots coach the Patriot Way. What you put in the universe comes back. They're disciplined on the field, out of their goddamn minds, off the field.

[Mall]

Yeah, it makes sense. It's right on brand for the Patriots.

[Rory]

Belichick taught them all this way.

[Mall]

So do Brady. Do you think that's his child? No,

[Rory]

I think that would. I think that would be a way bigger headline if I see people speculating, obviously.

[Baby D]

Well, how would you. There's no. Like, unless you Swab their mouths. You wouldn't know.

[Rory]

What, you don't think that husband has done that? Since

[Baby D]

some people don't want to know.

[Rory]

He probably hired a private investigator. Yeah, I'm sure her husband for sure. Mike V's wife is behind some of this entire thing.

[Mall]

But her brother's name was Michael.

[Rory]

See, I told you.

[Baby D]

Michael don't care. I don't care.

[Rory]

Could have named him Rick if you

[Baby D]

knew that you was with one dude and I'm not. Again, I don't know these people live, so this could all be blown up. But hypothetically, if you knew you were sleeping with one person with two people, and one of them name one of their name was Michael, and that was not your husband. I'm not naming my child Michael. I don't care what my brother name was.

[Rory]

Where do you draw the line? Then? I'll ask both of you. If you are in a committed relationship about to have a child, can you name your kid the name of somebody you've slept with in the past? I'm not saying cheating or a side person.

[Mall]

Oh, man, that just leave me with many names.

[Baby D]

Yo, I was naming names to a nigga one time.

[Rory]

They making up colors at this point, bro. I listen, you can't come up with a new name.

[Baby D]

I listed the name of all 10. Not I'm 10, all five of my top baby girl names that I wanted to name my kids. It was one name. He was like, oh, we can name her that. I said, what? I said, Brooklyn, Anastasia, Alexandra. Ah, you.

[Mall]

All these really like, yo, Tabby out there. Sometimes you run into a bad chick

[Rory]

named Brooklyn, or you Anastasia in Brooklyn.

[Mall]

Yeah. So what you want me to do? You know what I'm saying? But yeah, I mean, I get why people are kind of looking at that crazy.

[Rory]

But

[Mall]

it is wild, though. It is a wild situation for sure.

[Rory]

But is that a conversation you would even have? Not. Not this. No, no, no. I'm saying when naming a child, like, I mean, granted we had a girl, but I wasn't thinking, like, I don't know if that would cross my mind of like, if we were picking boy names that I would be like, yo, have you ever slept with someone this name? I don't know if that crossed my mind.

[Baby D]

Yeah, baby cross hers, though.

[Rory]

But then again, it would. I'm sure it would. Yeah, yeah, I'm. I'm sure it would. But that would still. Which is up because I'm saying in a mature way, it wouldn't have crossed my mind. But if I found out later that you slept with somebody that was named. Yeah, I'd probably feel away. I'd be like, why you say something

[Mall]

I was about to say?

[Rory]

Would you.

[Mall]

So, baby D, if you knew you were having an affair with a guy named Mike, Right. And your baby father, your husband was like, yo, I want to name my son Michael.

[Baby D]

I'm like, nah, I hate the name Michael. I ain't gonna lie. Hate the name Michael now when I get caught cheating later on, he like, all right, I thought you hated the name Michael. Would you have liked your son to be named after my side? No, I didn't think so.

[Rory]

Okay, I like this Michael. I didn't like the other Michael.

[Baby D]

No. Yeah. Nah. Because if I list a name for my daughter and you slept with a. With that name, let me know.

[Mall]

Oh, you want to know?

[Baby D]

I don't know. Because if my ex named his daughter Damaris, I'm giggling every five seconds, and I don't want a giggling at me like that.

[Rory]

It was. It was six years that they. They were having an affair. Six years was when that photo was taken at the bar to now at least six kids. It was, how do you have, like, do you take a break of the affair and like, all right, you're sewn up six more weeks so we can again, like, letting.

[Baby D]

No, letting your.

[Rory]

When you go back to your affair.

[Baby D]

Well, affairs don't be like, she's a

[Rory]

football reporter, he's a coach. No, no.

[Baby D]

Somebody. When you just had a baby with somebody, you don't have sex.

[Rory]

No, I know that part, because physically, you're not allowed. But then, like, how many more weeks after that? Like, are y' all counting down after you just said, oh, yeah, she's breastfeeding?

[Mall]

Yeah, I need the other two.

[Baby D]

Wait, so he's not supposed to be attracted to her because she's breastfeeding? The baby ain't his.

[Rory]

Wait, who said that? See, now you're putting words in my mouth. I think women that breastfeed, I think it's the most beautiful thing of the circle of life.

[Baby D]

Making sure.

[Rory]

I'm saying, when your titties are leaking and it's not the milk for your husband and.

[Mall]

And son Michael, favorite time of year.

[Rory]

It was never for you going out with. With the pads on your titties to go. To go cheat.

[Mall]

Hell yeah.

[Rory]

That's a warrior.

[Baby D]

I also don't think affairs don't happen. Sometimes they do, but affairs usually are not, like, consistent. Like, we might around for three months, be off for a month or 2. Around for 5 months, be off For a month as far as. Are not consistent usually. So, yeah, it might have been years that they have pictures of them, like, over the years. But it doesn't mean that every single month of every single year they were dealing with each other.

[Rory]

Like, it could have been. They were cheating, stopped. They. Her and her husband had a baby to save the marriage. And then time passed. It didn't work. And Mike, you know, was there with the clipboard.

[Baby D]

Yeah. Like, it could have just been. Yeah. Situational. It doesn't mean that it happened all the time.

[Rory]

I mean that I understand that a lot of fairs happen, like, in the workplace, because people work a lot and that's the people that are the closest to them. But I don't know in the NFL, that's. That's crazy to me, because the cameras are on you at all moments.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Like, how. How do you get that off at work? Like a New York City bar.

[Baby D]

Just.

[Peach]

Mike Brable's at a bar, hugged up.

[Mall]

Mike, don't.

[Rory]

I wouldn't. Like I would notice Mike Frable at a New York City bar. I don't know. I don't know if everybody would, though.

[Mall]

The people that need to know would.

[Rory]

When he was playing, nobody would. Even though Mike Vrabel was a fucking hall of Fame outside linebacker, had his helmet on and. Nah. You not recognizing Mike V. That's just a big dude at the bar. But since he's been a coach with the Titans and with the Patriots, that camera is on his face most of the game. You might recognize him. That's just friends chilling. See, but.

[Baby D]

See, that's. But that. But also, that's another thing. Like, for example, if me and. If me and Rory were having an affair with each other, if people saw us out together, they. It would not automatically be a thing because people would expect to see us out with each other. Like, there wouldn't be an automatic thing attached to it.

[Rory]

I don't know if a reporter covering a team and a coach, that. That would raise suspicion even if they weren't fucking and not for romantic reasons. Why are y' all out together?

[Baby D]

They.

[Rory]

Oh, you're a reporter. That's a head coach.

[Baby D]

You see the way they make eye contact with each other? That was me and Stank on our first date. Yeah, that's.

[Rory]

That might have been the rekindle after Michael.

[Baby D]

Yeah. That's wild. That's. Yeah.

[Rory]

With the ring on. Ugh. Or did someone Photoshop that?

[Baby D]

That's terrible.

[Rory]

Well, I guess if you both are married, you don't take.

[Mall]

Oh, I don't.

[Rory]

Know.

[Mall]

Yeah, but that's just so tough. These. Because pictures could. You could take pictures, and then she could paint a whole different.

[Rory]

No. For sure. No, I completely agree with you.

[Baby D]

What? That's him.

[Rory]

He's leaning over because he sees somebody he knows. Teddy Brusky just walked in.

[Mall]

Yeah, like, what if he just hugged her and he's about to sit down? Like, he didn't kiss her, like. But if I take that picture, it looked like he just kissed her. See what I'm saying?

[Rory]

That doesn't look like a kiss, by the way. I'm not saying they weren't having an

[Baby D]

affair, but body language is important. You don't get that, Ma. You've never been that close to me. You don't get that close to someone, arm on the shoulder, staring them deep in their eyes. That's intimacy. Like, that's insane.

[Mall]

Arm on the shoulder, weirdo.

[Baby D]

I mean, arm on the. You don't see his arm touching her? Like, his hand touching her arm?

[Mall]

No, he's just like, listen, week seven, right? We came down the field like that. That's what I'm saying. That could look like I'm. You know what I mean? He could just be explaining to her as the reporter, like, listen, I called the timeout, right? I gave him the play. Like, boom. Somebody take a picture. Now it looks like I'm rubbing your. Your arm. It's like, I don't know, man. It's just, you know, I mean, ple.

[Rory]

Patriot way cheating. I'm literally trying to tell you I'm gonna lie about the injury report. Put it out differently for me.

[Mall]

Exactly.

[Rory]

That's all this was.

[Mall]

Yeah, man. I don't know, man. I think people putting too much into this, man.

[Rory]

No, I don't think they are. I think they were definitely having. No, I think people are pretty accurate.

[Mall]

Oh, man. Hey, man, that's up. Show me the video. Don't show me screenshots, yo.

[Baby D]

If you see me out with a. My mama don't take no photos of me. Nobody, ever. My friends, family don't. If we out, just be out. Just have fun. Because what if your phone gets stolen Now? My life in your stolen phone, yo.

[Mall]

Oh, that's what you worried about?

[Rory]

Parents and grandparents must have had a fucking blast. House. House phones and no cameras. Oh, God, what a life.

[Baby D]

You could call. She could call somebody to say, yo, so and so cheating. If they. If they. If the house phone busy, they can't even get through a text message.

[Mall]

That's why uncle had another family right up the street. Everybody lived happily ever after. Nobody was tripping.

[Baby D]

Well, my grandmother and my. Well, my mom and them whooped the ass of my grandfather's side.

[Mall]

But I hear you why that's hating.

[Baby D]

She did. She came to the house.

[Rory]

But it was settled after that, right? There was no timeline commenting on it for the next month. Yeah, no, it was settled, and that was it.

[Mall]

We all lived in the same day.

[Rory]

No one ever brought it up at another holiday.

[Mall]

Yeah, and then he just popped up one day at the cookout and was like, you know, that's your brother right there. Like, oh, all right. What's up, brother? I mean, let's hang out sometimes. Like, come to the crib, watch the game.

[Baby D]

Would you accept, like, a side like us? Oh, never mind. Family full of side baby. Like, all the babies are side babies.

[Mall]

Side babies.

[Baby D]

Like, if. If your mom. If your mom and your dad were married and then he went and had an affair and had, like, another family, a lot of people don't accept that, kid. Like, the Jacksons had a hard time accepting Giovanni. Like, would I Out of wedlock, baby. I asked you. And then I remember that you have mad siblings, and most of y' all don't have the same mom, so.

[Mall]

Though, of course, it's like.

[Baby D]

But it'd be different for kids.

[Mall]

Like, you're not my brother.

[Rory]

Get away from me.

[Baby D]

But a lot of people, Rockefeller people are really like that, though. People who had married parents and the father had an affair. People don't be with that side, baby.

[Rory]

I mean, it would have. You'd have to look at what your mom thought. That'd be the first start. Like, how does your mom feel about the entire thing? But, I mean, it's not. It's not the kid's fault.

[Baby D]

Yeah.

[Rory]

If your past made that decision. But you're gonna make the kid suffer to not know their. Their blood. But again, I think you'd have to look at your mom and see how your mom. If your mom is really hurt by the shit. Yeah, you got to give that some. Some time. But that kid didn't do anything.

[Baby D]

I always. I mean, I get being hurt by it and not wanting to see it, but I'm not gonna keep my kid away from their sibling. I wouldn't. I could never do that. But a lot of people do. It happens a lot.

[Rory]

I mean, you think. You think Mariah be doing the joint Christmases? I'm just asking. I'm asking a question. I don't care about people's business. I'm just asking you a question. Do you Think Mariah Carey and her children do joint Christmases. It's all. I'm just asking. I'm sure we're all adults here.

[Baby D]

I'm sure them kids see their siblings when they're with their father.

[Rory]

I'm sure you think Mariah be dropping them off.

[Baby D]

Well, I'm sure the help does. Mariah don't. I don't think Mariah drives. I don't think we've ever seen Mariah driving.

[Rory]

You don't think MARIAH does matching PJs with everybody?

[Baby D]

No.

[Rory]

You don't think she sings the Christmas songs around the tree with everybody?

[Baby D]

No, but I'm sure Nick Cannon's children know each other.

[Rory]

No, they do. We've seen all his kids together.

[Baby D]

Yeah, I'm sure they do. Yeah.

[Mall]

Let the kids have a relationship, man.

[Rory]

You think Mariah's in the family group chat?

[Mall]

Nah, nah.

[Baby D]

I don't think Nick got Mariah number.

[Mall]

No, he got my right number. He just can't share with the other baby mom.

[Rory]

So I know Mariah right into Christmas. My busy season. Sorry. It's my busy season. Can't figure it out for you guys.

[Mall]

Even though I'm Santa. Won't be seeing your kids. I won't be stopping by y'. All.

[Rory]

Anyways, this was fun. We will be back tomorrow. I'm excited. We have so much to talk about tomorrow.

[Mall]

Do we?

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Okay.

[Rory]

Got some predictions to make.

[Mall]

What predictions?

[Rory]

Getting close, man.

[Mall]

Close to what?

[Rory]

You tell me.

[Mall]

Well, he can't because, you know, I didn't hear anything.

[Rory]

I said predictions. Could you.

[Mall]

I don't know anything.

[Rory]

I'm talking about Rick Ross versus French Montana.

[Mall]

And we will wait for that verses on May 7 to talk about it. Until then, be safe, be blessed. I'm that nigga. He's just ginger. Peace.

[Rory]

For many men, mental health challenges aren't

[Mall]

recognized until they've already taken a toll.

[Rory]

Work pressure, financial stress, changing relationships, and

[Mall]

traditional expectations around masculinity can quietly wear

[Rory]

men down, often without clear warning signs.

[Mall]

In season three of the Visibility Gap, Dr.

[Rory]

Guy Winch and his guests explore how

[Mall]

these pressures show up, how to spot

[Rory]

them earlier, and how men can access meaningful support.

[Mall]

Listen to the new season of the Visibility Gap, a podcast presented by Cigna Healthcare.

[Rory]

Folks knew the colonel approved of his new honey chili crisp and jalapeno ranch sauces the moment he tasted them and said, that's right. No notes, just absolute silence. Turns out some flavors don't need explaining. They just need dipping.

[Mall]

It's saucy season at kfc.

[Rory]

With new Honey Chili Crisp and Jalapeno Ranch. Get dipping with a boneless bucket today. Prices and participation vary.

[Daniel Cormier]

This is Daniel Cormier from the Daniel Cormier Show. This podcast is sponsored by Total Wireless, the official wireless partner of ufc. Power doesn't wait in the octagon or outside of it. You either make the move or you miss the moment. That's why you need a network that's just as powerful as you are. With Total Wireless, you get unlimited 5G data keeping you in the action from the walkouts to the knockouts. Now that's a total power move. Make your total power move today. Visit totalwireless.com or stop by your neighborhood Total Wireless Store. Additional terms apply. See totalwireless.com for details.

[Caller/Guest]

Should it stay or should it go?

[Rory]

What if I mess it up? What if I have to pay taxes? Now?

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[Baby D]

this is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.