Episode 494 | D-Dot and Tracey Lee Bring The Law and Disorder

Summary

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Podcast Summary: New Rory & MAL – Episode 494

"D-Dot and Tracey Lee Bring The Law and Disorder"

Release Date: May 15, 2026
Guests: Derrick “D.Dot” Angeletti, Tracey Lee
Host: Rory Farrell

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Episode Overview

This special episode welcomes hip-hop producer D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti) and MC-turned-attorney Tracey Lee, fresh off the release of their collaborative album, Law and Disorder. Rory sets the tone for a deep-dive through hip hop history, personal stories, and the philosophy behind their joint project. The conversation moves fluidly from their Howard University roots and stories of Bad Boy Records, to cultural debates on “real hip-hop,” the critique economy, aging in rap, and the creative process behind their new album.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Origins: Howard University & Early Hip-Hop Days

[03:55–14:24]

• Howard as the Birthplace: D.Dot and Tracey Lee reminisce on meeting at Howard University in the late ‘80s, describing it as “the fountain of youth” and a breeding ground for hip-hop and Black excellence.

  "Hip hop was like seed. And you could just see the roots planting itself firmly in the ground and getting ready to grow." – D.Dot [05:10]

• College Connections: Both detail witnessing the culture bloom—name-dropping alumni like Guru, Puff, Marlon Wayans, Shy, Taraji P. Henson, Digable Planets, and many more.

  "So, in the entrepreneurial spirit. Everybody had a quest, whatever that route was." – Tracey Lee [11:53]

• First Encounters with Biggie:
  • Biggie’s early performances at Howard (’94–’95) are recalled as pivotal, with the campus being a “circuit” for rising acts.
  • D.Dot shares his first impression:

    "He said, 'I know who you are. I watched you on Video Music Box.'...And then we just connected, smoking, talking." – D.Dot [13:29]

Inside the Bad Boy Era: Studio Chemistry & Hitmaking

[14:28–29:03]

• Birth of the Hitmen: The legendary Bad Boy Hitmen team’s origins, Puff’s role in bringing them together, and the evolving importance of musicality and “record making,” not just beat-making.

  “You know, take a song, artist, a writer, a situation. [Puff’s] able to cook it and make it a nice meal. He was probably the most experienced at that time, at 23.” – D.Dot [16:30]

• Session Stories:
  • Stories around the making and sample clearance of classics like “Hypnotize”, “I Got a Story to Tell,” and the dynamics among the Hitmen team.
  • On the chemistry:

    “Me, Ron, and Nash already knew each other. Stevie was the new guy. But, I mean, Stevie can—he could play. He was keys, drums, guitars...” – D.Dot [20:21]

Life After Death, Biggie & The PAC Feud

[22:05–36:22]

• Making “Life After Death”:
  • The album was purposely storyboarded “like a movie” to reflect transformation post-Ready to Die.

  “Life After Death was storyboarded like a movie. That's—I'm super proud of that.” – D.Dot [25:29]

• Session Vibes & Creative Freedom:
  • The sense of fun, freedom, and pressure that came with crafting a double-disc classic.
  • “Not going to tell you how to hit the mark, but it gotta hit the mark. And that's kinda how anybody wants to be coached.” – D.Dot [23:54]
• Biggie vs. Pac:
  • D.Dot breaks down the famous beef—distinguishing fact from folklore and reflecting on the overwhelming “critique industry” that arose after.

    “Big's response was, wow, I'm not like that. I gotta let this dude know that's not me. But this is a blood sport, and I ain't no sucker.” – D.Dot [29:03]

  • Tracey Lee recounts being at the party the night Biggie was killed and the surreal aftermath.

    “We was headed to Hugh Hefner's joint right after that… Next thing I know, Big got shot.” – Tracey Lee [34:09]

Hip-Hop’s Critique Culture and Generational Divide

[39:52–63:54]

• Who Owns “Real” Hip-Hop?

  • Extended debate on the meaninglessness of “real hip-hop” vs. commercialism.

  "Why would I go into it and not want to sell the most music I possibly can? …All those guys that scream real hip-hop, those are the guys usually that are broke..." – D.Dot [61:36]

  • Both guests slam the hypocrisy of “purist” critics and myth-making in hip-hop discourse.
  • Numerous classic acts are cited as affirmations that hip-hop was always about getting paid, not just positive messaging.

    “The goal was always get money, money in hip hop from the time it started.” – D.Dot [68:43]

• The Critique Economy:

  • The monetization of opinions, clickbait hate, and how anyone can be an “authority” now.

    “Everyone has a voice now. So you can critique something without listening to it at all. You're not even really a fan of music. You're a fan of critiquing.” – Rory [54:05]

• Throwaway Beats & Myth Busting:

  • D.Dot rejects the concept of "throwaway" Biggie beats for Jay-Z and Volume 1; there’s no such thing as a “throwaway” when crafting classics.

    “There was no such thing as throw away for nothing…that's idiotic.” – D.Dot [43:40]

Aging in Hip-Hop & Making Music for Grown Folks

[93:14–104:28]

• Law and Disorder Album:
  • The guests detail their motivation for making the album: to prove maturity, growth, and continued artistic relevance.

    “This album was to show the world that I'm at a space in my life…we're just gonna have some fun. But we're not, not trying to take it back to '88.” – D.Dot [103:37]

  • Tracey Lee’s journey—from chart-topping rapper to lawyer to rapper again—is highlighted as unique in hip-hop.

    “How many lawyers that used to be chart topping artists are there out there? ...There's growth there.” – Tracey Lee [104:48]

• On Aging and Evolving Content:
  • The group discusses grown themes, evolution in sound, and how hip-hop can age gracefully—citing Nas, Hov, Andre 3000’s flute album, and Tribe’s Thank You for Your Service as positive examples.
  • “Some artists…you're growing with them, but you're not growing with them in the sanctions of their lives. They're not taking you through every part...” – D.Dot [100:43]
• Fun & Chemistry in the Studio:
  • They emphasize that having fun and playfulness in the studio are central to their new project and should be the goal for artists at their stage.

    “I'm in the studio, I got slippers on, incense lit. We watching porn. Oh, my God. Feed in the air. …we having fun.” – D.Dot [106:21]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Hip-Hop Purist Myth:

  “Do like the Israelites…go out and they stand on the corner and they give the gospel. Don't make no money from it. Don't do merch." – D.Dot [62:26]

• On Sharing Space with Biggie:

  “Why would Big do a record with Trey? …Because most of the questions are coming from people that are envious of the fact that Trey even got to do a record with Big and they didn't.” – D.Dot [93:56]

• On “Throwaway” Beats:

  “There's no such thing as throwaway Bigs. Like, we was going to use this for Big, but it wasn't hot enough. So we'll give it to Jay. Shit don't make no sense.” – D.Dot [44:12]

• On the Evolution of Critique:

  “It's monetization…Negativity is going to spread way quicker than anything. And it's the same way with artists that make shitty music.” – Rory [55:16]

• On Aging in Hip-Hop:

  “We're finally seeing how it can age. …we're starting, see Nas doing six projects with Hit-Boy. It doesn’t sound—you don't sound like you’re trying to be young.” – Rory [94:27]

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Segment Timestamps

• Intro & Howard University/Origins: [03:16–14:24]
• Biggie, Hitmen, Studio Era: [14:28–29:03]
• PAC Beef, Life After Death & Aftermath: [29:03–36:22]
• Debate: Real Hip-Hop, Commercialism, Critique Culture: [39:52–63:54]
• Album Process & Aging Gracefully in Hip-Hop: [93:14–104:28]
• Reflections, Fun & Final Thoughts: [106:21–End]

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Final Notes & Album Info

Law and Disorder is out now, reflecting decades of experience and a playful creative ethos. D.Dot and Tracey Lee are plotting shows and staying active, intent on proving that hip-hop can have longevity and depth into “grown man” life. Their message: let artists evolve, have fun, and don’t let critics or purists define what “real” hip-hop is.

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For Hip-Hop Heads & Newcomers

• This episode is a must-listen for those who crave behind-the-scenes stories, music philosophy, and rare insights into hip-hop’s legacy and future from true insiders.
• For even more, check the Law and Disorder album and watch for D.Dot and Tracey Lee’s upcoming shows.

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"Let hip hop be hip hop. It's vast." – Tracey Lee [64:13]

Transcript

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

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[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

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[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Conductor.

[Rory Farrell]

Welcome back. We. We lost our. Our dear brother Maul to Iceman. He. He is not here with us.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Prayers up.

[Rory Farrell]

Damaris and I are here. And we have also two people that I consider absolute fucking legends. And just by proxy, through Guru, we are all family. I am here with the legendary D Dot and. And Tracy Lee outside, fresh off an album, Big Claps. Where do we want to begin? Because I know both of you guys have a lot to fucking say.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I can tell you where we can start at proxy. Can you talk to the people? Can you. You know the definition of proxy? I'm playing, I'm playing, I'm playing. I know what it is.

[Trey Lee]

Yeah. This guy, man, he don't like, you know. Well, I ain't going to say he don't like. When we start using vocabulary, you know, he gets a little, you know, what is that?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Even though I know what it is.

[Trey Lee]

I know. Yeah, yeah. Being a smart ass.

[Rory Farrell]

I don't even know how we even linked up, how long ago it was. I know Guru initially introduced me and Tracy a long time ago. And he was like, do you know this is. I was like, you know, what the fuck?

[Trey Lee]

This is like.

[Rory Farrell]

Yes. What's up, man? I can't remember how you and I connected.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I can't either.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

And I smoke, so I don't. Yeah, it's not. It's not going to be. It's. It's foggy at the maximum. I don't remember, but it's been years.

[Rory Farrell]

How many years? How did you two connect?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Who, me and Trey?

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Oh, Howard University at Howard. Okay.

[Rory Farrell]

That's. That's where everything started. What's.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Everything started?

[Rory Farrell]

What was in the water at that time with you guys? Guru and we, you know, I'm sure Puff will end up somewhere in the story, but we don't got to focus on Puff a little. But what was in the water in Howard at that time?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

The fountain of youth. It was a youth movement when I got there, 1986, hip hop was, you know, we had the WAP, Eric being Rakim, you know, it was.

[Rory Farrell]

It was.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

It was special. So. And when I got to Howard University, it was a New York. Really a New York regional thing. It spread, obviously, it was in other places, but New York was at the time we were ruling the dance hall. So if you were from New York, then you had a little bit of extra cachet, you know what I'm saying? As far as that scene went. And so. And me coming already being a rapper, coming on campus, rapping to a certain degree, having all the tapes that were exclusive, the Kid Capris, the Brucie Bs, and all these type of tapes, they were exclusives to the campus. So hip hop was. It was like seed. And you could just see the roots planning itself firmly in the ground and getting ready to grow.

[Rory Farrell]

So was there three different movements where. Because we've seen photos of, like, Big Redman Pac, everybody at Howard. That's naughty by nature out there. Was everyone moving within that? What would be bad boy time? Because I've talked with Guru about this as well. He was like, yo, we were doing something completely separate, but we would still work with them at the same time. Was that an actual movement with everyone that early, do you think Guru is

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

much younger than me? Not much, but he was 90.

[Trey Lee]

He came in. He came in 92.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[Trey Lee]

He was like four years after I was there.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I was the 86. So gurus, guru's movement. Yeah.

[Trey Lee]

So his vision, even my movement was different than his. Yeah, I came two years after him.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Okay. Yeah, Hip hop had changed that fast from 86 to 88. You know what I'm saying? The artists that were coming in the style of rapping that was coming in. So by the time the 90 hit, we was in a whole nother area. So in 86, 87, 88, there was a learning movement. Like, we're listening and we're just all just absorbing this thing. Like, what is this? By the time Trey got there in 88, me, Ron and Harv and a little bit of puff at the time, we moving towards what we've been hearing. Harv is rapping, I'm rapping. We already moving towards it. Probably like him when he got there in 88. Of course he's rapping, but we focus on school. We're here for school. So when he touches down, lo and behold, for him, it's there and it's in his face. Like, oh. So if he had the bug, it was right there. As soon as he touched down. Soon as he touched down, it was like, oh, shit. They got mics in their hands and

[Trey Lee]

that's exactly what happened. Like, I don't mean to cut you off. That's all goes exactly what happened? Cause when I got to Howard, I had been trying to get a deal when I was in high school, you know, much like in 86, you know, that was a bit of a renaissance period. But then when I got there, I decided, you know what? I'm gonna just get my education, go ahead and become a sports broadcaster. Cause that's another one of my pass sports in general. But I saw this guy rhyming in front of this place we call Blackburn center, which is like the central location where everybody goes for. You know what I mean? Yeah, all that. You know what I'm saying?

[Rory Farrell]

So had me and Howard homecoming times as well.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Oh, yeah, right, right.

[Rory Farrell]

Towers, I've been.

[Trey Lee]

You talking in language.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah, he's.

[Trey Lee]

So when he talks about the bug, I immediately. Cause it was right there. I was like, oh, I can't stop this shit now. Cause it's here. You know what I mean? I thought it disappeared because we were going to be on a college campus

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

and we were in D&DC was a go go town, you know what I'm saying? So when I first got there, I had never been to D.C. so when I got there was a black, blackity, black town. I loved it, but it was everywhere you went. But it wasn't bad, but it was like, I want now, you know, I want my hip hop. I need that. So the tapes became the records. The wax became like gold if you had them. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. That was what was in the water.

[Rory Farrell]

Also at that time was the rich Porter Alpo thing with Howard and everything going on. What was it?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Rayful Edmonds.

[Rory Farrell]

What was that energy like where music wasn't dominating who was controlling the area at the time? More or less.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Well, they. Their music was. You know, you go to those clubs, it was just like being in Black Hole. You know, you go to those clubs, it was just like being in a New York club. The drug dealers, the pretty girls, the people that was there. But they there mostly to hear the go go hip hop was like, you know, they throw it in there because it was popular. But it didn't take over the town yet. It wasn't a full takeover yet. So. Yeah, but at those times, I lived right around the corner from them. Trey will tell you. I live right around the corner from Ray for Emmons, okay. In Northeast. So the alley I lived in, my back alley was their back alley to their block.

[Rory Farrell]

That's crazy, right?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

So. And then I hooked up with. I'm sure you heard of the Madness Connection. They were the Clothing line right on Georgia Avenue. Shout out to my big brother Larry. He ran the Madness Connection, and that was like the hub for unity, meaning go go hip hop artists. He was one of those people that embraced it all. He sold. So I was able to go inside there. Now I'm learning that they just like us. Like, they like what we like. It's just this is their culture, you know what I mean? So the Madness Connection was a big part of DC's culture for us to. To see, like you said, what was in the water and see what. How that water, we can throw it on some seeds and where it was

[Trey Lee]

going to go, but. But also to bring it back to when I came in, just to show you the difference. Like, let's just say he was. And there's, you know, that 86 ERA. And those people that came in then, they were like the Roots. So we began the Trunk of the Tree. And I would say we were the beginning stages of a renaissance because you had like, you know, Anthony Anderson There you had Marlon Wayans there you had the group Shy there you had Ananda Lewis there you had Taraji P. Henson there you had Mark Pitts there you had all of these, you know what I'm saying?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Chris Latimer started the aka. Yeah. All the noontime guys. Hicks and yes, all of them, the noontime guys. They end up going down south and doing all that stuff with them at

[Trey Lee]

the same time, though.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

They're all there at the same time. Puff Me, Half Trey.

[Trey Lee]

So if you could just.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Came later. Yeah, yeah.

[Trey Lee]

So if you could just imagine that, you know, I'm saying, like, so in the entrepreneurial spirit. Right? It was the entrepreneurial. Everybody had a quest, whatever that route was. They were going to make something of themselves and become that thing that people kind of reach for later on in life.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Planets.

[Trey Lee]

Digable planets at the same time.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Right. Brand new.

[Trey Lee]

Yes. A dot winter.

[Rory Farrell]

I just feel like, like from the 85 to 95 needs to be a doc just on Howard University in itself, where every. Everything happened. Were you guys.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Lawrence. I forgot. Yeah.

[Rory Farrell]

Were you guys there for Big's first performance?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I was, yeah.

[Rory Farrell]

What? Please walk us through the day that

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

big stepped on 94.

[Trey Lee]

95.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

One of them.

[Trey Lee]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I mean, it was simple. Howard University as a circuit on hip hop. First of all, let's start there. When you doing your promos back then, you had to hit Howard. Out of all the HBCUs, Howard was the one. You had to hit one. It was in DC2. It was the most convergence of hip hop and HBCU from all places. Yep. So and so we knew so and Big knew that I went there, Puff went there. So we made a movie out of it. You know, we had cameras following us and all types of stuff went on stage. And that's when Howard first really start letting people perform on campus like that. So we were one of the first that they allowed for that to happen.

[Rory Farrell]

What was one of your first memories of Big, like, when y' all first connected?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

When I first met him. The day I met him, I went to reach my hand out to shake his hand. He said, I know who you are. Like, how you just did with Trey. Like, I know who you are. I watched you on video Music Box. You know, I was trying to be humble and shit.

[Trey Lee]

You know what I'm saying?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

You smoke. Like, it was like, you smoke. I was like, of course. And that was it. And then, you know, after a while, I didn't stay long because I was just there on some meeting. But after that, you know, I remember he didn't necessarily ask for me, but I had came one time, and he was like, yo, you ain't been around in a minute. And I was like, yeah. You know, because at the time I was working, I had a job. I couldn't be at, like, them up under them. So I was like, yeah, I gotta come around when I can. He was like, yeah, man, come spend some time, man. Fuck with you. Got Knew a couple of OGs from around his way, so. And then we just. We just connected like that. Smoking, talking. And, you know, he liked the fact that I was kind of. I kind of wasn't up under them. But when I came around, Puff showed me, like, a little bit different respect than people that work for him.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, we clicked instantly.

[Rory Farrell]

And, like, what were those sessions? Because we've seen docs and movies and everything where, you know, they make Puff look like Morpheus in a Versace shirt. Of certain sessions of, like, here you go, here's Juicy. Like, what were those early days of, even before Hitman, Just putting together that first big project and what would become Bad Boy in itself. Cause the sound started with y'.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

All. Yeah, yeah. My role at the time, I wasn't really involved with Ready to Die to that capacity. I was there, I was around. I was in sessions. I think everybody gotta put in perspective that if you close your eyes and envision this session, There's Biggie, who's 19 or 20. There's Ceeze, who's 14 or 15. There's a bunch of cats from Brooklyn around big who've never even probably been in a studio that big before. There's Puffy, who has had a certain amount of time in the business, but not 10, 20 years yet. And there's probably the producers, like the Pete Rocks, like the beginnings of what's the name? Track Masters and them Easy Mob.

[Rory Farrell]

For some reason, he doesn't get credit

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

for Juicy Movies and all these other people who were there. But at that time, nobody was, you know, Quincy Jones. Yeah. Nobody was the out, you know, So I understand all their things, but I sit back and laugh because everybody was babies. Yeah, everybody was babies. So to act like, you know, Polk would have made a better record than Puff or Pete Rock would have made a better record. We don't know that. That's like arguing championships with Jordan and Pippen. We don't know what they would have did. You know, me. I mean, we know what they did without each other, they didn't win. So we can honestly say that Puff's role in that was probably the most experience in record making in that studio. So seeing him doing what he does.

[Trey Lee]

You said was record making, right?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

It was record making. It wasn't rapping, it wasn't beat making. It was, you know, take a song artist, a writer, a situation, he's able to cook it and make it a nice meal. Yeah. So at that moment, he probably was the most experienced at that time, at 23. 3. Yeah, 24 or 22, whatever, how old he is. So all the hate and all this, who was supposed to do it? You have to say yourself. If he wasn't doing it, then who would have did it?

[Rory Farrell]

Did he form the Hitman?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

It was his idea.

[Rory Farrell]

Okay.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah, it was his idea.

[Rory Farrell]

And what was with. Because it was three of y' all total, right? Four.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

It was.

[Rory Farrell]

I know more got added at some point.

[Trey Lee]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

At the initial Hitman was four of us. It was myself, Stevie J. Nashim and Ron Lawrence.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Chucky was already by default, his number one hitman because of coming off Mary and the first thing.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

But at that time, Chucky has started Chuck Life. God bless Chuck, you know, rp, RIP Chuck, he started Chuck Life Productions. So he was ready to start his vision. So he wasn't the main source anymore for puff come 95, 96 ish around. So puff decided he needed to find a replacement for Chuck, which was Stevie. Not a replacement, a bullpen player. Somebody else that can come in when Chuck ain't there. And Stevie was very talented, like an

[Trey Lee]

Instrumentalist, if you will.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Another musician.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

We needed a musician to make some of these other things come to life that sample producers couldn't do, and the musician may not have had the vision to do it. So, again, all these haters have to understand what a producer is and not a beat maker. So Puffy was able to take musicians and say, play this bass over for me so we can filter out the sample and have a more thicker base.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

And then I can tell you, you know, I'm a skip a little bit, just to give you that understanding. When we tried to clear Hypnotized, Herb Alpert initially said no. The cousin, Randy Badass, who was co producer on it with him and was on the song, he heard it and convinced his cousin because he said, listen to what they did to it. They didn't just loop it.

[Trey Lee]

I never heard this.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

They put bass lines on it. They played other chords on it. They took the who and they put it throughout the whole song. So they took hours. But listen to what they built on it. So it's not totally just taking your creation, Mr. Herb, you know, Albert Goblin. Thank you. But we added onto it. And that genius comes from the producers that can see the vision.

[Rory Farrell]

It's funny you mentioned that, because just I think yesterday I got a story to tell by Big. The original one came out.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah.

[Trey Lee]

Yeah.

[Rory Farrell]

It leaked. And then I didn't realize what Chucky had done to that record.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Exactly.

[Rory Farrell]

Was absolutely insane.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Exactly. But it took Puff to say, it's

[Rory Farrell]

usually the sample version sounds better.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Right.

[Rory Farrell]

I got a story to tell. Version now, to me, is better than the one that leaked. Like, Chucky replayed this shit and made it 10 times better than what it really was.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Exactly. And that took the visionary of the producer to say, this is what's needed in order for us to overcome this hurdle, which was we couldn't clear the sample. So most people would have just made a new. Tried something else, tried another sample. But it was so infectious to us as producers, me and Puff sitting there. We can't. Let's just slide. So let's figure this out, D. What we gonna do? All right, let's get Chucky, see what he could do. Let's go.

[Rory Farrell]

Was there immediate chemistry between the four of y' all when Puff brought everyone together?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Well, absolutely. Me, Ron, and Nash already knew each other.

[Rory Farrell]

Okay.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

So Stevie was the new guy. So. But, I mean, Stevie can. He was. He could play. I mean, he'll tell you 22, you know what I'm saying? But initially, when I met him, he was playing four, which was more than enough than what we needed. He probably played more, but he was playing keys, drums and both guitars, you know what I'm saying?

[Rory Farrell]

And not to get off where we're at here, but the first day that Stevie J ended up on Love and Hip Hop, what was your thought?

[Trey Lee]

Oh, shit.

[Rory Farrell]

The first day, like when he showed up and say, yo, my name is Stevie J. Welcome to Love and Hip Hop Atlanta.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

To me, that.

[Rory Farrell]

Nah, he's been that.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah, he's been. I just laughed because I ended up managing him for a second, you know, while he was doing that. So I know what he's doing. He's very calculated dude. He's a Scorpio too. So let's not get that twisted, you know what I'm saying? Very calculated dude. So it didn't surprise me at all. I already knew what the. With the rainbow that he was looking for at the end of that one. I mean, the pot that he was looking for at the end of that rainbow.

[Rory Farrell]

I've never met Stevie J, never been around him, nothing. But obviously I knew who he was because I'm a fucking nerd, right? So. But I also watched Love and hip Hop and I was sitting there with my girl at the time. I said, that has to be a different Stevie J. That's not the same Stevie J from Hitman. I thought it was another Stevie J.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

It was the same. You know, actually, you're right, but in the opposite. I wanted him to go in there and play instruments and show that part. They almost didn't. It was almost like they didn't want him to because that had took it to a whole nother level. If they would have saw his talent, him just. You know what I'm saying? Like crazy, you know what I mean? And he does it effortlessly. That's the part.

[Rory Farrell]

Like, it's like, wow, what's some of your favorite memories of the Life After Death sessions and putting that. That album together?

[Trey Lee]

Skits.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Huh? Skits.

[Trey Lee]

Nah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I mean, yeah, My.

[Rory Farrell]

The more John Blaze than that.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah, yeah, the skits were fun. Most. Believe it or not, most of those skits were done when Biggie wasn't even in. You know those skits where I'm laughing, I'm saying, you know, I'm gonna get you all them type of skits. Biggie was in LA doing those in his truck. Like, you know those phones that you had back in the days where it's like black and you could put the. Put the phone on speaker, like office phones. It's just like this. We had the mic onto the phone. I'm on the phone with Big on this side. He's in the truck and his voice is coming through the speaker. We got the mic. Then I'm going get you motherfucking Faith. And I just bust out laughing, you know what I'm saying? Like, all them type of. All them type of. Those are super funny. But I just think the freedom of. For me, it was the freedom of being able to put my stamp there for me with a visionary that kind of gave the outline but didn't box us in and allowed me and Big and the other artists, the locks, Mace, all of them, to just say, go for yours. But I needed to hit this mark. Not gonna tell you how to hit the mark, but it gotta hit the mark. And that's kinda how anybody kind of wants to be coached.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

You know what I'm saying? I would think we trying to get here. I'm not going to take you step by step to get to it because I know you got some things, but the goal is to get here. So if you don't get there, then I'm going, you know, put some things or tell you signs of things that can help us get there. That's what his role was pretty much.

[Trey Lee]

And if I recall, like, because we had to listen to session up at Daddy's house, you know I'm saying, sitting, you know, drinking, and there's a lot of pictures out there with us in the studio drinking Hennessy and all this other shit. But he was super proud of the other. The end product. To me, that's the vibe that I got, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, because every time a song go off, be like, yo, Trey, what you think? You know what I'm saying, for another trade, what you think? Like, like he was really vested, you know what I'm saying, in that. In that project, you know what I mean?

[Rory Farrell]

Life After Death, to me, you can make a case with all eyes on me as well. But I think it's the only classic double disc that exists in music history is Life After Death. We think about that and it's. There's not a skip on a double disc. I don't even know how you achieve something like that was. Outside of Juicy. Most of Ready to Die was pretty fucking grimy. Like, it wasn't palatable the way Life After Death merged both those.

[Trey Lee]

Oh, it's definitely a change.

[Rory Farrell]

Was that, like, intentional when you guys started that with Big? Like, bro, we going juicy all the

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

way on this One the album starts off with. Previously on Life After. I mean, previously on Ready to Die. Yeah, because it was almost like we brought it back to life. Like, and usually when people come back to life, they have a new take on life.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah, it's coming off suicidal thoughts.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah.

[Trey Lee]

Yeah, right.

[Rory Farrell]

That's what it's coming off of.

[Trey Lee]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

So I wasn't in favor of the concept. You know, they knew that back then. That's. That's been never been the secret. I didn't go to any photo shoots. I didn't like all that cemetery shit. I was definitely not in favor of it at all. But, you know, it wasn't my place at that time, so. But I understood and I understood the magnitude because I've said on other places we did that album, we storyboarded that album. So. So what your comments are, it makes me feel great because that's what movie directors and producers and executive producers want. We storyboard this thing because we want it to have this impact. And Life After Death was storyboarded like a movie. That's. I'm super proud of that. You know what I mean? And Big got to hear it. That's the, that's the beauty of it. He didn't die not hearing his finished product.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm. I can only imagine that's like really speaking words into existence. And I don't want to get too dark in that. But yeah, it's crazy that you thought that out the gate of like, I don't want to be part of something called Life After Death. Like, unfortunately, it manifested itself in that

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

regard, but I didn't want to be a part of it. I just conceptually, I just didn't think, you know, my mind doesn't go that dark. I guess that's what it is.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

You know, I don't even talk deaf and all that, you know, I just don't speak it up, so.

[Trey Lee]

But the records didn't even indicate such. Like if you look at the album cover and then you listen to the

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

music again, that's purposeful. I'm sitting in there saying, you ain't gonna have me talk. You ain't gonna have me in here making records like, like this. I mean, me and Big have had our back and forths about verses and songs and, you know. Nah, aside from Puff, because nobody really wanted Puff in the studio because, you know, he's a hands on person.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

So those moments you talked about, that was. I was proud, was when me and Big were able to just. And I was able to Say, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

[Rory Farrell]

Where was Big's actual mind at during the PAC thing? Of course you got the bar on Reasonable doubt. You should probably have Tupacs, whatever. But never got like a real. I think a Dilla Busta Rhyme leaked.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah.

[Rory Farrell]

No, that record is incredible. And it's crazy. That Big wrapped on it, laid that

[Trey Lee]

joint for me, diamonds on my neck. That point was on YouTube.

[Rory Farrell]

I think you can find it. It leaks and then gets deleted.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I have it.

[Rory Farrell]

For the people listening. You can find it somewhere, I think in the depths of the Internet.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Trey Lee]

That joint was ridiculous.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

It came off the presses. I was like, oh, Lord have mercy.

[Rory Farrell]

As. As cool as Big played a lot of that stuff of looking like he wasn't affected by any of it. I can't imagine that there wasn't conversations about everything that was going on.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The story real quick is, you know, this. Back in the days, videos was getting announced. They came in the studio one day, we happen to all be in there, you know, hit him up. Is coming on the tv like, you know, that's what you tuned in, you know, I mean, and we just was in there like, oh, word.

[Trey Lee]

These.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

The word is like that. Like, we didn't know it was like that. Like, it's like that. Yeah. So of course, first, as people heard the story about dig him up and all that other stuff, because that was a conversation, you know what I'm saying? Like, is he really dead now? Like we gonna, you know, like. But that was. We weren't the antagonist. That's not our style.

[Rory Farrell]

Oh, no.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

So Big's response was, wow, I'm not like that. I gotta let this dude know that that's not me. You know what I'm saying? Like what's happening here? But this is a blood sport. And I ain't no sucker and we ain't no suckers. So chess is chess. So we gonna play chess. So we didn't. Our thing was, let's just beat him with hit records. We ain't gonna do all this. Let them do all that. Every time they turn around, bam, bow, boom, boom, uppercut, uppercut. You know what I'm saying? That was us. Yeah, fuck it.

[Rory Farrell]

I cannot believe how mature Big was.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

He didn't want to be. Let's not get his twisted.

[Rory Farrell]

He wasn't like, gentlemen, a four year old. To have that reaction to that is admirable to me.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

No, the reaction was. Everybody, you know, he got gutter, he got drock, he got banger, he Got all these dudes, you know what I'm saying? He got aruga, he got all these people that ready to, you know, but that ain't us overall. When remember there's a pot at the end of this thing we trying to get to, we still got a goal to achieve. And that's when a 24, 25, 26 year old comes in, 27 year olds come and say, I ain't come this far. To come this far. Yeah, right? So think about it, we all under 30 making these type of decisions that critics sit back and be looking at us like we were 50 year old presidents of companies. We're all in our 20s, children, children in the business, not children because we fathers, we, we grown ass men. But these situations weren't how to business for dummies. We didn't have these books, we didn't have OGs guiding us like that from the community or in the business. So I hate when these dudes sit back with this criticism as if we were giving these books and giving this law and giving these commandments and we didn't follow them correctly. You know what I'm saying? That's, that's, that's that, that's. So when the young lady asked what we want to talk about, we want to talk about hip hop's creation of folklore, okay? Hip hop's creation of opinions. Where now they believe their opinion is so powerful that they start to believe it to be true. So who shot you? Wasn't a group effort to sit in here and say, let's make this long ass five minute record about clock. Like, are you fucking serious? Five minutes. We gonna get this dude. Five minutes. We're not doing that. Yeah, we're not doing that. So squash all that. So that's what I'm saying. These guys come in and be it must have been or what ifs and you know, and I'll be like, yo, facts. If we just talk the facts, all this would be, there would be boom. So I mean, Big Love Pac, until it became time was evident that it was just a game we're in. So that's when you start realizing that these relationships are temporary. Yeah, necessary temporary. And it's outside. So like on our new album we explained that because we had a moment and we decided that we couldn't let this game change. Some of the things that we went through that they had to have some meaning. Yeah. So for Big, some of those moments had meaning because you hear Big Daddy Kane talk about how when they brought him together, talking about moments when they were together. You know, he had stories about his wife. You know, they made up stories, whatever the stories are. But you got to deal with that in real life. So why go through all that if the relationship ain't real? Yeah, right. Yeah, right. So, you know, that. That was kind of the.

[Rory Farrell]

Do you feel like that it's been a bit exploited with everything that is now, like, it's. It's become a whole genre in itself on YouTube when it comes with PAC and Big and.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah, because everybody gets an opinion.

[Rory Farrell]

Like, they're interviewing random pedestrians that happen to be walking by that day at this point that are giving full narratives to what happened.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Exactly, exactly. So at this point, you can't change it. What I just am going to be totally against is when I hear someone trying to rewrite history. Yeah.

[Trey Lee]

That wasn't even there.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

That wasn't even there.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

That's when I step in and say, not that I'm the. You know, I'm the history police or nothing like that, but if my legacy is attached to that and it starts to get a little tarnished when I try to keep my shit polished, then I have to speak up. Yeah. And that's what my issue is with some of these stories. So Big Love Pac. He wanted it to work out. It didn't work out. Unfortunately, life took us on that crazy turn.

[Trey Lee]

Yeah.

[Rory Farrell]

That was.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

That Trey was there. To which, you know, we were actually at the party that night. He was there, too. We were all there.

[Trey Lee]

I left.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

We all left, like, together together.

[Trey Lee]

And I remember. I recall. And basically, we left. Me. Big was right here. We both left out. And I was. I was feeling kind of a. I don't know what I was feeling, but it was just awkward. And he was like, yo, Trey, what's the matter? I said, I don't know, man. I just don't feel. He's like, no, chill, playboy. We about to go to the Playboy Mansion. We was headed to Hugh Hefner's joint right after that. You know what I'm saying? He goes to the right, I go to the left. Next thing I know, Mark Prince gets a call two minutes later, you know what I'm saying? He got shot.

[Rory Farrell]

What? What did y' all do? Did y' all go right to the hospital?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yep, yep.

[Trey Lee]

Right outside. Matter of fact, I probably get. Because Mark went in and Mark came out with the news first before it even hit the masses outside.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Seas came out first through the side of the house.

[Trey Lee]

Yeah, right.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Seize. Ran out to the side ambulance entrance first.

[Trey Lee]

Right.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Screaming, shirt off. Pulling the shirt off. Everybody in front of the hospital was here. You I just saw seeds. So me and Chris Latimer shot to seas on that side.

[Trey Lee]

Mark came with me and Mark him

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

was walking and then that's when told me that's when everybody knew.

[Trey Lee]

Crazy.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah. All right, let's pick this up though. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Trey Lee]

Real quick.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Pick it up, pick it up.

[Rory Farrell]

It was not my.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Let's pick this up.

[Trey Lee]

No worry.

[Rory Farrell]

And now Mo, your family reached out to me over the weekend. They are very concerned. It was just, just notified that you are overpaying for your wireless right now. And your family is very concerned.

[Rory Malloy]

I know.

[Rory Farrell]

Because you could just unlock savings with 25amonth forever with Boost Mobile. It's a permanent price. It does not change. And your family is sick of this.

[Rory Malloy]

I keep the same number.

[Rory Farrell]

You can keep the same number, the same phone and someone will come and just. Just do it for you. They could come right here. Yes. Yes. So stop terrifying your family. I'm tired of getting these calls. They're concerned for you. This is an intervention.

[Rory Malloy]

This is an intervention. Based on average annual single line payment of AT&T Verizon and T Mobile customers compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan as of January 2026. For full offer details, visit boostmobile.com

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

this

[Daniel Cormier]

is Daniel Cormier from the Daniel Cormier Show. This podcast is sponsored by Total Wireless, the official wireless partner of ufc. All UFC fighters know power doesn't wait in the octagon or outside of it. You either make the move or you miss the moment. That's why you need a network that's as powerful as you are. With Total Wireless, you get unlimited 5G data keeping you in on all the action, from the walkouts to the knockouts. You'll never miss a moment. That's coverage that you can count on for every single round. So when the moment happens, you're not catching up. You're already there. Now that that's a total power move. In the ufc, power isn't given. It's taken. So make your total power move today. Visit totalwireless.com or stop by your neighborhood. Total Wireless Store 5G access requires a 5G capable device in a 5G service area. Month rates on the Total Base 5G Unlimited plan for new subscribers applies only to the monthly rate for your plan. Additional terms apply. See website for details.

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Streaming May 22nd on Paramount from executive producer Lena Waithe. The acclaimed series the Shy reaches its final chapter. For seven seasons, these stories, these streets, this community have stayed with us now it all leads to this Will Tiff uncover who killed Rob? Will Victor and Shaad find their freedom? And can Keesha and Emmett survive? What's ahead? As friendships are tested, families evolve and secrets refuse to stay buried, one thing is certain. The SHY is more than just a series. It's a legacy. Say goodbye to the Shy. Don't miss the final season. Streaming May 22nd on the Paramount Premium

[Rory Farrell]

Plan, this episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. May is mental Health Awareness Month, so this is a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. Life is a journey. Some days feel good and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own. But the truth is, no one has all of the answers and no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen to, understand and support you can make all the difference. If you've been feeling overwhelmed, stuck, anxious or unsure, those feelings are more common than you think. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps you identify your needs and preferences and their 12 plus years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recommendations. You don't have to do this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] Rorymal that's betterhelp.com Rorymal Support for the show

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comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio that's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures.

[Rory Farrell]

All right, coming off a very morbid part. Yeah, New York after. After BIG did pass. Yeah, New York was in a very interesting place. Between Nas already being Nas, hov, Bubbling, Wu Tang. The lane was open. But what was that like in 97 when it was wide open of who was going to be number one in New York City?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I mean, that was the least.

[Rory Farrell]

Because they went right.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Ho.

[Rory Farrell]

Went right to you to start at volume one.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

That was the least of our thoughts. Our thoughts were the.

[Rory Farrell]

The.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

The. The person who started this, which was Puff, was ready to quit. So you're a journalist. So, you know, back in the days. The Puffs album originally was called One Time was called Hell up in Harlem. Then One Time it was called the Goodfellas.

[Trey Lee]

Never knew that.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

And I was like, that shit ain't gonna work for me. You know what I'm saying?

[Trey Lee]

Why not?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Because, you know, reality is that's my friend always. But he wasn't a real rapper. So for us to take the approach like this is gonna be a statement was different. But he was ready to quit because it was just a lot his friend, you know. So that's when I came up with the title no Way Out. So we weren't thinking about anybody else. Cause there was no competition. Jay was still not.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah, Reasonable doubt sold like 30,000 Russians.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

We weren't even thinking. And Pac was already gone. And no disrespect to anybody else, just there was a iconic level that they had achieved that it was going to take a lot. Nas is. Nas like Nas is one of those people. You can't really put him in anybody's box because his stripes have been earned through the mud and. And his general, his admiralship is earned. It can't be taken away. It can't be boxed in. So there was nobody that we were concerned with. The calls came in because they knew that the sound was still happening as they were speaking. So even Busta Rhymes came out with a record that had a similar bop and vibe to the Benjamins. It was dope separate. But in my humble opinion, it was in that vein. It had that boom. And then I was telling you earlier, we get the call from Roc a fella. Yeah, because there's a rush to get. We want y' all sound. We don't know who's gonna be the next, but we need that sound. So Rockefeller called that Big died in March. Rockefeller's album, that Volume one, was out in December.

[Rory Farrell]

So I. Can you clear up if those were throwaway big beats? Sunshine City is mine. Like, were those throwaway big beats?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Okay, so that. That. That's already what I was talking about. Where does the term throwaway come from? Since when does anybody throw away anything of value?

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

So that's what I say when you guys make up terms and run with it. There's no. Imagine me saying, yo, these is my throwaway beats. Right? Throwaway beats. Now, I understand the concept. They might not sell as much as another one may sell, or I may give them to an artist that is not as hot as whatever. But there was no such thing as throw away for nothing. First of all, Big was custer custom fitted artist. Meaning you could have played big 20 beats. It don't mean they wasn't hot. Cause Big ain't take them. Yeah. It just mean Big ain't feeling big. Then, like, the world is filled.

[Trey Lee]

Y' all cringe every time you say that.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

The locks didn't like. The Benjamin cringe every time because the locks didn't like it. It's a throwaway beat. That's idiotic. And that's what I'm saying. The journalistic terms that people come up and run with is where I'm like, where y' all getting throw away? No, they were beats. There's like a thousand other beats that Primo may have came for Big.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

That Buck Wild might have played for Big and he didn't like them. They don't become throwaway because Big didn't like them.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

They become someone else's. So there was no such thing as throwaway Bigs. Like, we was going to use this for Big, but it wasn't hot enough. So we'll give it to Jay. Shit don't make no sense. It might have been Big didn't like it, or Puff didn't like it. Yeah. For what we were doing to fit the project.

[Rory Farrell]

I mean, for volume one. Like, I always felt Volume one was the best representation of the Hitmen. To me, I know that's like, not a popular take, but if you go from the difference of a Sunshine to Stevie J doing Lucky Me to you doing where I'm from, that's the craziest range of musicality I've ever fucking seen.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

And then Sunshine to where I'm from

[Rory Farrell]

is like, yo, what. How do you do both of those things?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

And what did Naj do? Didn't Naj do the one where he. He sold drugs to his moms? He's. Oh, miss, miss, miss, miss. Not missing me.

[Rory Farrell]

You must love me.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

You must love me.

[Rory Farrell]

You must love me.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

That was Nasheem, right?

[Rory Farrell]

I. To me, stories Volume one is. I know one of them. You go through everything you guys did with Mary, everything you guys did with. With Big. But to me, after she told everything to me, Volume one is the quintessential. This is what the hitmen are in the range. I didn't even know he did You Must Love Me like that. That's even crazy. I didn't even know that part.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Like, right. For an artist, that's not bad, boy. That's not directed by Puff. That's not. Y' all think it's programmed by Puff because he didn't do that in reality, but people think so.

[Trey Lee]

Is that your favorite in his catalog?

[Rory Farrell]

No, not even remotely. Close, but okay. Yeah, I'm,

[Trey Lee]

you know, I'm just posing.

[Rory Farrell]

I think volume two is a classic. Like I. But I'm a host fan.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Here's what I'm crazy. I don't really do lists, but I've seen lists out there. And what's crazy to me is one of the songs from Offer. Volume one is still one of his top five songs out of all them albums and blueprints and all that stuff. You talking about Where I'm from. Rolling Stone named it his number one song. Not to say it's his, but he told me to my face, he ain't did a show where he ain't did Where I'm from.

[Trey Lee]

You got it.

[Rory Farrell]

I'm not saying this because you sitting on the couch. That's my favorite hip hop. It's either Shook one's Part two or Where I'm from Beat that are my favorite beats I've ever heard.

[Trey Lee]

That's definitely my favorite J record. Like it ain't even close.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

It ain't.

[Rory Farrell]

It's the wildest beat up ever.

[Trey Lee]

And I'm not just saying that cause you my man. But that ain't like out of all of the records that Jay got, and you got a lot of them, you got a plethora. That joint right there where I'm from.

[Rory Farrell]

Did you have hov in mind when you were making that or.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

No, that's my point. No, no.

[Rory Farrell]

How old was that beat when hov heard it the first time?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

It was fresh off the presses, but It's. It's. We make our own Stanley Steamers. If I sat around and had to please another artist's palette, I would be broke.

[Rory Farrell]

That's a bar.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

They have to get into our space. That's the relationship. I play you something, my vibration cues yours. And even if you're a rapper and you're dope, your vibration may cue me to make something, but you still gotta love it in order for it to come to fruition.

[Trey Lee]

Yep, that's real.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I can't just make anything because I think Nas is gonna like it.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

And then you play it for him, and he looks at you like, that ain't it.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

So, no, I don't know producers that you know, unless actually you're working on a project. Like, if Justin Timberlake or Chris Brown or somebody came to me and said, I won't work with you, then I'm doing my homework on those artists, and I'm probably gonna cater to that artist. But if I'm just like, these average guys making beats and waking up and getting a new NPC sample and just making a beat, I'm sure they're not saying, this is for Drake. And when I send it to him, he's gonna love it. Yeah. No, I made this beat. Drake gets it, Jay gets it. Whoever gets it, it's for you. Yeah.

[Rory Farrell]

All right. Yeah, I hear you.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah.

[Rory Farrell]

Did y' all think Jay was gonna be what he was at that time?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yes, I did. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was around it. So his work ethic, his study, you know, he studied. Come on, man. The guys just. He just luck up. These dudes just don't look up, man. They. They put in the work.

[Trey Lee]

Did you think? Did you think?

[Rory Farrell]

Well, I was six when Reasonable Dog came out.

[Trey Lee]

Damn.

[Rory Farrell]

So I went back. The first. The first J album I heard was Volume two.

[Trey Lee]

How old I am?

[Rory Farrell]

The first J out Meyer was. Was Volume two. And Jay was already not a star at that point. But, yeah, he was Jay by the time. By the time I heard that.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Trey Lee]

Volume two. Yeah, he was.

[Rory Farrell]

He.

[Trey Lee]

That. That's Volume two.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

And that's another thing. So how old were you in Vol. 1 came out?

[Rory Farrell]

I was seven.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Okay.

[Rory Farrell]

So, yeah, 97 was volume one. Right.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

So. So think about this. So think about this. How hard is it to listen to albums that predated you or predated your ear from when you really became a fan? How can you honestly judge that album if you weren't in that moment of time? So I may have a love for.

[Trey Lee]

Yo, that's A great question.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I may have the love for Stevie Wonder's albums. I may think he's one of the greatest artists, which I do, of all time. But my appreciation for Stevie will never be the same as my mother's. It will never be the same as somebody of when it impacted. Because music is the sign of the times, not of the future in most cases. And nine times out of ten, music expresses the times that we are in. So if you catch onto an album 10 years later and are able to criticize it and not able to put yourself in those times, is that criticism fair?

[Rory Farrell]

So I 100% agree with you, but I think that's the definition of timeless. I was not there.

[Trey Lee]

I like this. I like this.

[Rory Farrell]

I was not there for a Reasonable Doubt, and this is kind of like my. I almost sound like the old man, get off my lawn in this regard, because I think that's what's lacking in music now, that I don't think this is going to be timeless. I was not there in 1996 when reasonable doubt came out, but I can hear that and see the embodiment of genius in Classic in it. I don't need to be there for that, because that's times I don't need to. Marvin Gaye was going on. I don't need to be there to know this is but instantly hitting my soul.

[Daniel Cormier]

So.

[Rory Farrell]

So with that said, I have, like, you know, I was in my late teens, early 20s, during the blog era. There's certain mixtapes that hold near and dear to my heart, but if I played that for somebody that wasn't there for that, they'd laugh at me and go, like, bro, you like this? Yeah, because I was there. You wasn't there. You don't know. Timeless to me is Reasonable Doubt. Timeless to me is life after death. I don't need to be there to understand how amazing this music is.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I didn't say understand it. I said critique it. It. See, there's a difference. Someone.

[Rory Farrell]

But that's the, like, someone can critique the blog era. If they wasn't there, it's cool. I get it. If you wasn't, there's Lil Wayne mixtapes that I know people are like, bro, you really like this? Years later. Of course I do, because I was there. There's also timeless, like, what y' all did, right? That my daughter, who's 3 years old, when she's 15, when I play Hypnotize, she's gonna feel that, like, right?

[Trey Lee]

Right.

[Rory Farrell]

But if I play her a mixtape record from Big Crit, from the blog era, she's be like, dad, what are you playing me right now? That's the differ.

[Trey Lee]

Why can't you critique it, though?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I'm not saying you can't critique it. I'm saying how you critique it is so. For example, you can't compare Future in his moment in time to a classic made in the 90s for many reasons. But some of the critiques that come based on what I hear. And I'm saying not everybody does it. I'm saying, one, technology changes everything. Some of these dudes are able to put themselves in your ear and in your faces more so than we were. So to even get one of our songs, you had to work at it, right? So if you critiquing someone's album from back then, the work that went in to put a tape on that machine to get the sound that we wanted out of it, process to know that we only had. Even though it said 48, we could only really use 46 because we had to use one for SMPTE and you had to keep one away from the SMPTE. So we were putting three things on one track to make it sound a certain way. So the critique is like, huh? Do y' all know what we had to go through to get this song to this point for y'? All? Whereas these guys can go online and say, give me a beat that sounds like Future or sounds like Drake and it's pop up like a toaster.

[Rory Farrell]

But.

[Trey Lee]

But isn't the end result the end result? Like, at the end of the day, regardless what. What the process was, the end result is the end result. Is it dope or not?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

We don't that. That. What is the end result?

[Trey Lee]

Is it dope?

[Rory Farrell]

What is.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

So my question is, what is dope? And who gets a critique? The dopeness.

[Rory Farrell]

And my thing is, to your point and I, Future is not the example. But there's plenty of artists that would not be artists right now unless it was a lick. They realize you for sure. And I'm telling you, you also get a fan base that does the same thing. They're not music fans, right? They just want to be heard and critique something.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

But that was in our era, too.

[Rory Farrell]

Everyone has a voice now. So you can critique something without listening to it at all. You're not even really a fan of music. You're a fan of critiquing. So I think that's what I'm saying.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

That's what I'm saying.

[Rory Farrell]

I wouldn't even focus on that because those people wouldn't be speaking unless it was trendy to. They're not really critiquing, but you just want to just be.

[Trey Lee]

You have to say something.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

You have to speak on it. Because they're filling the spaces in that. Me and Trey talk about this all the time. If we were able to get around some of these blockages that are because of opportunity and technology, what you're asking for would probably filter through. But in order for people like us in our age, there's a whole wall of system that you have to go through. Simply because I can critique. So I will. Yeah. And if you multiply that. What's the word?

[Rory Farrell]

In.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

In inexponentially or exponentially? Exponentially. It's people like you said that could just wake up and say, I don't like that. And here's why. And then it's a bunch of followers of people that will now jump on that train just because they can.

[Trey Lee]

Right.

[Rory Farrell]

It's monetization because I. I can get paid by X right now by typing something out. And the most engagement is gonna be focused, which from a hateful world, it's negativity is going to spread way quicker than anything. And it's the same way with artists that make shitty music. You wouldn't be an artist unless you knew it was a lick. You wouldn't be a critiquer unless you knew it was a lick. It's all a lick at that point.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I get it. Like, and I don't know, even now

[Rory Farrell]

it's trendy to hate Jay Z now. Even when he's. He's about to fuck, he's selling out Yankee Stadium three nights in a fucking ring Y. And it's become trendy to hate on him. Because if I put up a tweet on X right now, that is. Yo, hov's a. A rapist, terrible rapper. I can make money off that.

[Trey Lee]

But that. But that baffles me with. I mean, you know, it's. Outside of music. Jalen hurts. Every blogger, every. You mentioned Jalen hurts. Your hits go up exponentially. You know what I'm saying? Or any type of hate towards Jalen, like cats, that, that, that, that probably would never talk about him. He's always in the forefront of every.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

If I'm Puff, if I spoke on Puff the way that other people did and went and told Derek Angeletti stories, boom, I probably have 7.8 million followers right now. 100. I probably. You know what I'm saying? Like, so that's what I mean. Like the sensationalism of it Is a little difficult to get around when you trying to do what you're looking for and find timelessness in some of this. So it's almost like we talked about. Is there ever gonna be a hit record again?

[Rory Farrell]

Can I call you a hypocrite real quick?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yes.

[Rory Farrell]

You and 50 invented this shit.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Invented what?

[Rory Farrell]

The hate how to Rob is the first troll that's ever exist.

[Trey Lee]

You invented this.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

But it came with a disgust. Disclaimer.

[Public Investing (advertisement voice)]

He's got a point.

[Trey Lee]

Disclaimer. But they don't hear that. They don't hear.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

They had to hear it. This.

[Trey Lee]

They ignore it.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Serious disclaimer.

[Trey Lee]

But you know, they extracting. You know what I'm saying?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I can say I went into it saying, yo, this record is crazy, but this is what happens when we get high. And when you broke. So we put a disclaimer on it.

[Trey Lee]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

And it was funny. So I do understand what you're saying,

[Rory Farrell]

and I'm joking too.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah, I know, I know. I know.

[Trey Lee]

You're being. That's a great point.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

You're being facetious. No, what I'm saying to you. Yes. Some people took it and ran with it because of something that my OG told me that he said. In this business, there's almost a certain level of minimal. Minimal. Minimal. Minimal consequences. Yeah. So some of these actions that happened became really big to us because there's much more crimes and much more hateful and things that have been done and people didn't get punched in the face for. People didn't get shot for. People didn't do this for. So that record kind of showed. Wow, he could come out. Because all I got calls from, you know, God bless Pun and Missy was a little upset and people were upset. So what you gonna do about it? How upset are you? You weren't that upset because Nothing happened to 50 as a result of it. The beef he got into was some street other stuff. It had nothing to do with the records. And I knew from me being Derrick Angeletti in the business, what y' all gonna do to me. I wish a would. That's how I was feeling. You know what I'm saying? Like, I wish it was like. So my point is. My point of saying is we might initiated it, but we came and said we're keeping it within the realms of fun and.

[Trey Lee]

But that's similar to dreams from.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

From.

[Trey Lee]

From Big. You know what I'm saying?

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[Trey Lee]

It's the same type of concept because

[Rory Farrell]

I've seen like some of the streamers that do the trolling from their Their basement. Everything talk about like whoa. Of I learned from 50. This has always been my difference with that. Yes, 50 is a troll. But 50 is also beefed with the craziest people in New York City his entire career and was outside and accessible. Anything 50 said he had to deal with, I agree. Like that. To me, that's not like I'm joking when I said it was troll. But ultimately 50 went head to head with we won't even talk about on this podcast. Like he said something and was there to deal with the consequences of what the he was talking about.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Right. And again, nothing.

[Rory Farrell]

That's why he was the first trolley. He wasn't a troll.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

He was outside.

[Trey Lee]

He was outside.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

You trolling behind the computer, you know, I agree totally. And nothing came to fisticuffs. Nothing really. You know, it did a little bit here and there, but nothing to the point where, you know, hip hop had to come and say we need to cut this out. This is just beyond. We lost Pac, we already lost Biggie. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think there's just a level of entertainment that I wish everybody would embrace and I wish that the hip hop purists would understand that.

[Trey Lee]

You're never gonna get that, Doc.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I know I'm never gonna get it. But it has to be said that, that they have to remove themselves from thinking that the game we are playing, that's a game, should have some keep it real rules to it.

[Trey Lee]

I agree.

[Rory Farrell]

So that's the part of sayingheartedly, there's this.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

There's a sect of people that think that even though we don't even have an ounce of control of the game that we're playing, we sign contracts, we get in it, we do all of this stuff and we want to create another set of rules for keep it real within this game. And when guys like us stepped out and said we not going to be in your box with that underground backpack purist shit, we going to try to go for the bread. Because that's what this business call is called, the record making business. I'm glad you said song business. So why would I go into it and not want to sell the most music I possibly can? That's idiotic and stupid. But these guys believe that we're supposed to keep it so real that I should damage my pockets to please a group of people.

[Trey Lee]

I'm glad you said it.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

That's the most dumbest. And that's why I want to have these conversations when say hip, you gotta what's real hip hop you know what real hip hop to me is? It's like a jungle sometimes, and making one, you want to stay there. So all those guys that scream real hip hop, those are the guys usually that are broke, didn't make it. They got some issues because it didn't happen the way they still wearing the same style of clothes they wore when they were hot. Those are the guys that scream that. Yeah, those are the guys. I would never sell out you them records, and these records are not. Yeah, okay, then go do it in the train station. If it really means that much to

[Trey Lee]

you, don't try to get in the record business.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Try to get in the business. Means that much to you.

[Trey Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Do like the Israelites. Do like the. The Hasidic Jews or whatever, and they go out and they stand on the corner and they give the gospel. Don't make no money from it. Don't do merch. Those underground guys, I guarantee you, I bet a thousand dollars for anybody what. When they go on the road, they don't invite everybody to their room to read books. Let's find out what the new book is this week. Let's have a leadership meeting about what's happening in the black community. When I'm sitting there down in Memphis with all these country chicks, no, they. They doing drugs.

[Trey Lee]

They doing all that.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

So all of them guys that change their names and all this crazy shit, I be looking at them like, suck a dick. Y' all niggas are just posturing for whatever. It makes no sense.

[Trey Lee]

Call it. Call it what it is, yo. I mean, that's real. That's real rap.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

They them bitches that got sneakers on.

[Trey Lee]

That's real.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Outfits, baseball hats. They just like us.

[Trey Lee]

That's real.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Them ain't sitting around trying to do. What's the new book list? What were you reading this week? I was reading Franz Fanon. What were you reading? They not doing that. They make y' all think that they're so far community and they so for us that every day of their lives is spent trying to better the hip hop community.

[Trey Lee]

This is getting clipped.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

These dudes is crazy. Five baby mothers just like the rest of us for.

[Trey Lee]

Listen, man, I wish these would. Yeah, man. I think. Yeah, that was. That was definitely a stray. And it hit a couple people.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I hope it hits who it's supposed to be. Just let hip hop be hip hop.

[Trey Lee]

It's vast.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

It's vast.

[Trey Lee]

It's an array.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

It's the United Colors of Benetton.

[Trey Lee]

Exactly.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

It been that way.

[Trey Lee]

Pick what you pay.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

When dude Said hip hop started when we were in the. We were doing this. I'd like them to name five records from 1979 to 1985 that had any positivity in it except for the message.

[Trey Lee]

That's real five records.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

You know where that movement came. When I was in two kings and a cipher, 10 years later, run DMC had one. This hip hop didn't start off with nothing but being broke and talking about it. Having skills and talking about it. I never heard Modi make a positive record in my life. I never heard Busy be. Get up there and say to the bit to the bop and we need to stop shooting each other. Let's go. I never heard that. I heard I'm getting money and champagne is popping in the air and I'm doing my thing.

[Rory Farrell]

KRS1 was violent.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah, yeah. And then all these guys talk about the 80s guys. Like the 80s guys. Rakim, when I recall, I love. You know, the God is. I love the God. The God had dollar signs on his. On his chains. He was a 5 percenter. But you can't tell me he wasn't about getting money.

[Trey Lee]

Thinking of a master plan.

[Rory Farrell]

He was with Eric B.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Okay. Hey, what was the name of the album?

[Trey Lee]

Painful. This Ain't Number Sweat Inside.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Talk about this real hip hop. What about epmd? Their names was Eric and Paris.

[Trey Lee]

Word.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

That was their name.

[Trey Lee]

Word.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

How hip hop were they? Yo, they were super hip hop, but they was trying to get paid.

[Trey Lee]

You got.in his bag, ladies and gentlemen. You got time to pay.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

There was never a moment in hip hop when nobody was trying to get paid. Even in 2 Kings, in the Cipher, we were making. Trying to make hit records. It wasn't all just we are neighbors. It wasn't just that. We had a record on our album called we are Neighbors. It wasn't just that.

[Trey Lee]

Oh, man, I got a big long Caddy. Not like to build written right on the side and be dressed to kill.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Right? So all of this hip hop was about positivity. Hip hop. No, it wasn't. No, it wasn't. We had one record that these guys made and all of a sudden we put the whole genre in the message. One record that he didn't even write.

[Rory Farrell]

Why is it. So I was literally before you guys came on the phone with my man Jesse Boykins and we were joking about. About the. The neo soul image of. And I'm like, yo, these hip hop heads think Slum village is this positive. J. Dilla starts off the first record with what's up with the Three Screw,

[Trey Lee]

man. Clip that.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I'm just saying. I'm just saying what my problem is.

[Rory Farrell]

They ain't the most positive I've ever. Like, of course, Jake Diller said, yo, what's up with the three?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Like, the ideologies come from. And that's from people sitting around creating their own thing and then running with it. Yeah. You know, I'm from Brooklyn, New York, from the 70s. I was 12 years old when Rapper's Delight came out. So I'm fully aware of what it was. We're fully aware of the lyrics. I'm fully aware what it was. So by the time all these other records came out, mind you, they were records out before rappers alike. That was a commercial success, Right. There was white boys rapping in 79. There were records with white men doing hip hop and white women in 79. You can look on the list. When you look on the list of records that came out, 79 and 80. So by the time we get to 85, 84, you got Slick Rick, you got LL, you got Run DMC rapping over rock records. How hip hop Keep it real is this when one of the greatest acts of all time got seven records with rock beats under them? Rock beats.

[Trey Lee]

They weren't around then, Dot.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

No, I'm just saying to you, that just shows you the globalness of where we were going back then.

[Trey Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

One DMC didn't have a whole bunch of records of Kumbaya. Nah, nah.

[Rory Farrell]

He was trying to get with Aerosmith.

[Trey Lee]

Right, right.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

So I'm just saying.

[Trey Lee]

Mtv, they were trying to get the mtv.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

The goal was always get money, money in hip hop from the time it started. Sylvia Robinson did not form the Sugar Hill Gang to be a gospel group at the BME and go on a gospel gospel tour. That's not what she did. That's not what this was for.

[Rory Farrell]

And she got ghostwriters for it.

[Trey Lee]

Right?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

So let's. Let's keep it 100.

[Trey Lee]

Right.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I don't understand.

[Rory Farrell]

All this Rapper's delight was ghostwritten.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Let's keep it real. Right. Let's go back to real hip hop.

[Trey Lee]

Now that's shock form.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah. Which is what all ghost ridden.

[Trey Lee]

The entire.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

They ain't Right.

[Trey Lee]

None of that.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Who? Who? Let me ask you a question, and I want you to keep it 100. Who got more white fans? Puffy or Wu Tang? Wu Tang of Wu Tang.

[Rory Farrell]

Who's not even close.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Who would you consider more hip hop? White people love hip hop. I'm asking you who you would consider more hip Hop.

[Trey Lee]

You got to think about that.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Not really.

[Trey Lee]

Who is it?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I'm curious on Rory's answer, because he's. We talking about white people who like hip hop. That's why I got quiet.

[Trey Lee]

Oh, oh, oh.

[Rory Farrell]

You're saying that. Oh, who, who, who? I've been speaking for 10 years and impartial to everything with Puff after that video, this and that. I have been one of the loudest advocates of puff having the greatest ear next to Quincy Jones. I think puff.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I've heard you say that.

[Rory Farrell]

I think puff is.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I just said, if you ask the average hip hop, I can't think who

[Rory Farrell]

Puff embodies hip hop. If you were to look up hip hop in the fucking dictionary, is Puff.

[Trey Lee]

No, not your majority. White folks.

[Rory Farrell]

Oh, a majority. Like the. Yeah, the nerdy white people. Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

They would say not even nerdy white people. Purist Hip hop backpacks. When you say hip hop, you don't think Jermaine Dupri or Puff Daddy. When you say hip hop, you say rap music.

[Rory Farrell]

Same to me.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Huh?

[Rory Farrell]

Which is insane to me.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

You. Same to you.

[Trey Lee]

Yeah, but.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

But there's clearly a separation, as you can see. That's been one of our biggest things. There's clearly a separation between real hip hop and what the rest of you guys do. That's not us making that up. That's coming. You've heard that there's a line of demarcation. Okay, so. And so there's a line where it might say Wu Tang is considered real hip hop, Puffy, or the Jermains or the likes of. Of a rap music because they make a certain type of record. And I'm saying

[Trey Lee]

hip hop has been a time, man.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Hip hop has all of that is hip hop. Yeah, but there's been some type of separation. So for me, I wish somebody tell me that I ain't hip hop. Like, but I'm saying to you, but

[Rory Farrell]

it's been said you produce all the Benjamins.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

No, but I'm saying it's been said simply because of the style of record that's been made and the way the raps go and who your audience is. So. Because if you target a certain audience, that ain't Hip hop is Rappers Delight hip hop. Absolutely hip hop.

[Trey Lee]

Right. But because, you know, somebody took the baseline from Good Times, they'll probably say, oh, no, that ain't hip hop.

[Rory Farrell]

So I've. I've had this conversation with 9th Wonder, and I've had the conversation with Fonte. They have a brilliant theory of where the split you guys are Talking about happened. It happened with. It was written and De La Soul stakes is high and everyone just went this way. You either went underground or you went that side.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah, like I tell you, that's. That's. How old are they wonder?

[Rory Farrell]

Ah, he's younger than me.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Okay. So. Yeah, that's. That's my point.

[Trey Lee]

It happened before that.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

It happened way before that.

[Rory Farrell]

Okay. That's where they. They say that the whole split happened between underground and. If you liked flossy shit, it was a duh.

[Trey Lee]

Nah, it happened before that.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Happened way before that. Happened way before that. It happened during my era. If I had to give an opinion on when it happened, it happened during my era when I was rapping. Clear separation of positive rap and gangster rap. De La Soul is another one of those groups that. That as great as they were and as great as they are, didn't dictate the direction of hip hop. Musically, their albums were great, but there's no second or third day loss.

[Trey Lee]

Right.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

There's no repeat daylights.

[Trey Lee]

Right.

[Rory Farrell]

Well, let me. Ironically, their biggest record would be considered not hip hop, which is what me, myself and I.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Why would that be considered not hip hop?

[Rory Farrell]

That. That's more sellout samples.

[Trey Lee]

But that goes to the rappers delight.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

That goes back to the rapper.

[Trey Lee]

Rap is like you take.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

You take me when I look at

[Rory Farrell]

them, but they're considered real hip hop. But their biggest record would be considered not hip hop.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

My point is, for them, nothing about them is any separation. They were the type of group that can do A to Z and it was hip hop.

[Rory Farrell]

Y.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

That's what I mean. Y. So they didn't. So. So like you had a comment about what's. What's the name of the album? Jay Z's Volume 1.

[Trey Lee]

Volume 1.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

It sounded bad, boyish, or there are artists that sound, you know, macish or loxish or you couldn't duplicate Dayla. Show me how. How do you duplicate that with who and what.

[Rory Farrell]

How.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

So they kind of boom. And what's the other group you said?

[Rory Farrell]

They said Nas. It was written and then Dayla, that

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

was the split by the time it

[Rory Farrell]

was written, was out, which was 96.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Okay, right. By the time that happened, we had already crowned Nas. But again, Nas's albums. And I'm just speaking from a guy who was in the game at the time, weren't blueprints on how to make albums because he wasn't doing the Universal Daylight thing or the universal bad boy thing or the universal Dr. Dre and them thing. He tried it with if I Ruled the world. Yeah, right.

[Rory Farrell]

That was on that.

[Public Investing (advertisement voice)]

On.

[Rory Farrell]

That was on that album. That was nice point with the fans. The fans either went to Daylight, which then gets you into the slum village like that Dilla Worlds, or you go with if I Rule the World, which then you go to I am with Nas. And now you back with Puff. Hate me now.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

You're not back with Puff. You're back with the. What we do do. We're in the music business. You see what you just said? It almost seemed like Puff is the face for when you go commercial.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

And I'm saying that's not the case. Puff was doing what Dr. Dre with baby Face, with Prince and Michael Jackson. We're all trying to go commercial. Why all of a sudden did he become the poster boy for commerciality?

[Trey Lee]

But then there were other splits involved in that, too. It ain't just the Nas way or the Daylight way. There was a West coast sound. There was a Down south sound. There was a. There many.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

But they all trying to make it.

[Trey Lee]

That's what I'm saying. But there were many directions. It didn't cause a split, per se. Even then.

[Rory Farrell]

It was just a California Love video with Pac and Drake.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Right.

[Rory Farrell]

Does that look like somebody trying to keep it real? No, that's. They. They trying to sell records.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Right? And I don't understand why. You signed to a label and they want to tell everybody to keep it real. And you broke as hell. I only get it. So that didn't make sense to me. So I was never on that. Real hip hop. I don't even use that term, real hip hop. I don't even understand what that means. It's all hip hop. It's all birthed from the same original birthplace. And it's going to have his branches. Older cats ain't gonna like certain things. Younger cats ain't gonna like them certain things. And that should be more than okay. That should be more than okay. You know what I'm saying? But it's not for some people. They. And then, like I said, you got these kids that are maybe in their 20s now and would actually say something about Jay Z is ridiculous to me, that'd be like LeBron, which he never did. LeBron can never speak on Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Dr. J. Byrd. He can't ever say anything out of his mouth. He wasn't there. And they've earned their space in time. And if the generation after us would understand that there is no comparison. We didn't try to do that. We just tried to take what Cain and Rakim and KRS and LL and Slick and G Rap was doing and make it better. That's it. So these kids.

[Trey Lee]

Or evolve.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Or evolve.

[Trey Lee]

Let's not say better.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Let's say these kids want to say dead kill. Y', all, like, cut it off. Y' all mean nothing. How the foundation you standing on is what we built. So that's the mentality that throws me off a little bit about these critiques and about this thing. It's not just a critique. It's almost like, go away, die. You meant nothing to this game. We are the new.

[Trey Lee]

We are the new.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

And this is how it's going to go. Yeah, it's hard. It's a hard pill to swallow sometime. You know what I'm saying? It's a hard pill to swallow.

[Rory Farrell]

Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock BET Florida Sportsbook. And we are in the second round. The Knicks have swept the Sixers, so we can just put that over here. But there is still a lot of second round basketball happening right now where the lights are brighter, the pressure is on, some series are tied. So it is time to bet with Hard Rock, especially the same game parlays. Even if you're late to tip off, don't worry. Hard Rock bets let you live. Bet all game long. From the first bucket to the final buzzer and maul. You can score $150 in bonus bets. If you win today, just put $5 down and if it hits, not only do you get those winnings, but an extra 150.

[Rory Malloy]

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[Rory Farrell]

Ma, I know you see the difference in the beard. I know you see. I noticed you was, you was. You was looking like, yo, look a little more amber today.

[Rory Malloy]

I thought it was staple, but it was a little, you know, it was something different.

[Rory Farrell]

It was something. Oh, man, I've went through a lot of beard products that typically Just dry out my very, very sensitive skin. But I've been on my basking lather and finally found something that actually works with my skin. I've been basking in the lather every single time. The shampoo, the conditioner and they have the oil that, that softens my beard beard. And you know summer's coming. You want a woman to, to run her fingers through your beard, you gotta keep soft beard.

[Rory Malloy]

It has to be.

[Rory Farrell]

Softener is, is needed.

[Rory Malloy]

Very important.

[Rory Farrell]

This, this, this ginger hair sometimes gets

[Rory Malloy]

a little rough, but it's not the best. The skin under the beard too though.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[Rory Malloy]

Need to be conditioned and you know,

[Rory Farrell]

and I know there's a lot of people out there with some patches. I'll just say some people's beards don't connect. Damaris hates those type of guys. They have an oil as well that just makes your beard fall. Okay. Like sometimes I have to grow my beard out because there's like a little, there's a little patchiness right here.

[Rory Malloy]

Just a little something.

[Rory Farrell]

But that, that's been great as well. I use the, the beard balm especially if I'm on the move and just need my, my beard to smell better.

[Rory Malloy]

And Rory, it is important while you do enjoy basking leather, it is important to point out that it is black owned and family operated company, a brand. The CEO, Shana's younger sister was misdiagnosed. They said her hair may never grow back. So the family took things into their own hands. Love that created products for them them and now you know, the hair is healthy.

[Rory Farrell]

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[Daniel Cormier]

This is Daniel Cormier from the Daniel Cormier Show. This podcast is sponsored by Total Watch Wireless, the official wireless partner of ufc. All UFC fighters know power doesn't wait in the octagon or outside of it. You either make the move or you miss the moment. That's why you need a network that's as powerful as you are. With Total Wireless, you get unlimited 5G data keeping you in on all the action from the walkouts to the knockouts. You'll never miss a moment. That's coverage that you can count on for every single round. So when the moment happens, you're not catching up. You're already there. Now that, that, that's a total power move in the ufc, power isn't given, it's taken. So make your total power move today. Visit totalwireless.com or stop by your neighborhood Total Wireless Store 5G access requires a 5G capable device in a 5G service area. Monthly rates on the Total Base 5G Unlimited plan for new subscribers applies only to the monthly rate for your plan. Additional terms apply. See website for details.

[Paramount Plus (advertisement voice)]

Streaming May 22nd on Paramount Plus plus from executive producer Lena Waithe the acclaimed series The Shy reaches its final chapter. For seven seasons, these stories, these streets, this community have stayed with us. Now it all leads to Will Tiff uncover who killed Rob? Will Victor and Shad find their freedom? And can Keisha and Emmett survive? What's ahead as friendships are tested, families evolve and secrets refuse to stay bare, one thing is certain. The Shy is more than just a series. It's a legacy. Say goodbye to the Shy. Don't miss the final season. Streaming May 22nd on the Paramount Premium Plan.

[Public Investing (advertisement voice)]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable investment index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] Disclosures hey everyone, it's Kal Penn. I'm the host of Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

[Rory Farrell]

This week on the podcast I am

[Public Investing (advertisement voice)]

sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator

[Rory Farrell]

of Andy Weir's audiobook project Hail Mary,

[Public Investing (advertisement voice)]

Massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake

[Rory Farrell]

up alone, very far from Earth.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections. And it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo. Is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no. At this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that, that deeply, emotionally affected me. And I left it on the mic. That's great, because it served the story. People will say, like, oh, my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah, dude, me too.

[Public Investing (advertisement voice)]

Listen to Earth, say the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app

[Rory Farrell]

or wherever you get your podcasts. Before we get to Law and Disorder.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah, I love it.

[Rory Farrell]

I, I, I want to ask n. This is great. One, one, one more question. Just on some therapy, what was it like being Kanye west mentor?

[Trey Lee]

Some therapy. He said on some therapy.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Well, I mean, are you okay?

[Rory Malloy]

You, you?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah, you, you, you person. Or maybe the second that either turned him a mentor.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah, he said that out of his mouth before, though.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

He has, yeah.

[Rory Farrell]

That you were his mentor.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Okay, good.

[Rory Farrell]

Well, I mean, he did that. We said that he ghost produced for you, whatever the fuck that was when he was credited. How are you a ghost producer if you credit.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

That's another one of those terms. Yeah, yeah, that, that got made up. But the Kanye that I see now is, is a different Kanye. And what I mean by that is he still, he was genius when I met him in the making. So that's, I didn't do that. I didn't mold that guy. The irony is, when I met him, he was living in Chicago. He had his mother. His girlfriend's name was Alexis. My daughter's name was Alexis. His mother was a teacher. My mother was a teacher and a principal. We had so much in common. He's a Gemini. My wife was. I'm married to a Gemini. My daughter's a Gemini, so. So when I met him, he was hungry. He wanted to rap. He had the go getters. He was pushing him and his boy, the tall one, I forgot his name. They were really tight. He had John Monopoly in the mix. But John Monopoly was kind of more like a road manager. Cause Free and I were actually managing him. Yeah, he produced for Trey. So Trey was around him. He did two, three songs on Trey's life. I mean, live from the 25, from 215 that never got released. And he was hungry. He moved. You Know the story just real quick. He didn't move to Jersey for Rockefeller. If you watch that, he moved. Cause he wanted to be closer to me. Cause I was showing him how to make records. Real records. Yeah. And he said his dream was to be a hitman. And he. I didn't manage him because I found him. I managed him because he asked free to find me. I never met him because his sound was the. My sound was the closest to his out of everybody. If you compare our songs, I agree. So he requested to meet me. And when I met him, I said, oh, shit. It was to a little bit degree. Not a lot, but a hair d Midwest. But this dude's ear for that, you know, them other soul sounds was just. Yikes.

[Trey Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

You heard that? And that.

[Trey Lee]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Ooh.

[Reese Witherspoon (advertisement voice)]

Ha.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I need him here.

[Trey Lee]

Here.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Talked to his mother, got him to Jersey, shopped him around, did things. So I wasn't traumatized. I was more.

[Rory Farrell]

I'm glad you said, too, because when they say that Kanye is a no ID baby. And I love Dion is. Is to me, one of the. One of the best. I've always. I always felt like he was trying to sound like you. I mean, to me. To me, it's always sound.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

How did Kanye is. You know, I. You know, Kanye looked up to no id. But at the time that I got, Kanye came around.

[Rory Farrell]

Blueprint Kanye is more no id. But the early Kanye was not the soul sample chop.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

The way I'm saying, he talked about no ID often.

[Rory Farrell]

I know Story has a. I'm saying, as far as his production, before you get to the blueprint era was not this sole sample chop shit that no idea was doing. It was your shit.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

But, yeah, it was. And he was still learning. Cause remember, he's coming from New York now. He's. I mean, he's coming from Chicago now. He's living in New York, New Jersey. So now he gets to hear, on a more consistent basis, a different radio sound, terrestrial radio at the time. You know what I'm saying? And then new, different rap styles. He's in the studio with Trey. Trey's from Philly, so now he's in studio with Trey. And the raps is. It's not the same. You're not hearing these cadences, these twangs. It's different. Different. His lingo was different than my lingo. And we ain't but an hour and a half away from each other and slangs and. And flows and textures. So I was showing him all of that. He. He did a video where it Said he went to the studio with Jay and he didn't know how to coach Jay because that's not being a producer then. So I taught him how to say, yo, Trey, the fuck, man. What is that? Say the word. Like Trey would tell you. We. We'd have those conversations. Producers. So I taught him how to be a producer outside of track making. Yeah.

[Rory Farrell]

Beat makers versus producers, not versus.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Add it on to your arsenal. Be able to produce the song and not just do the beat. And you think you hear the finished product, but you can't. You don't know how to get there.

[Trey Lee]

I recall there was one record that we did, catch 22.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Catch 22.

[Trey Lee]

Chucky co produced that record with Kanye, and Chucky and Dot were in the studio. I think this is the beginnings of him being a producer. I'll never forget it. We were in Daddy's house actually mixing the record. He wasn't there at first, so him and Chucky, Dot and Chucky, you know, did some things or whatever. Then he comes in there later, is like, wait a minute. What are y' all doing? I don't know if you remember this. He was like, wait a minute. What are y' all doing? And there were certain things that Dot and Chucky were toying with, but kind of, you know, didn't elongate it, if you will, and didn't. And he was like, no, you gotta have that part right here. And he was doing an arrangement right before my eyes. And I had never seen Kanye like that in Krazy Cat, right in the beginning stages of it. So I think because of what y' all talking about, you know, I think he picked up on a lot of the things that Dodd was talking. He came in there, and I actually seen him in real time take control and prod.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

It's like a candy store. Like, I got another bas. Got some more. Oh, I got more drums. Oh, God, yeah. So of course you going to want knives.

[Trey Lee]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah. That's how it works. This is how it goes. Yeah, let's do that. Let's do that.

[Trey Lee]

What.

[Rory Farrell]

What inspired y' all to start Law and Disorder? Like, what. What was the first conversation between the two of y' all like? I think we want to start on this album.

[Trey Lee]

Was it B1?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

No. Over the last couple of years, I've been just trying to make records with Trey, putting them on freestyles and stuff like that. So I was working on a song called Appreciate album called Appreciate the hate. Back in 2019. 2018. 2019, we did a freestyle. So I told him I wanted him on this song. He came. Which ended up being B Warned. Never shot a video tour. Cause at the time, you know, I had. My teeth was all messed up, so I got some new jibs in my mouth.

[Rory Farrell]

Same.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

So back then, I wasn't really in front of the camera.

[Trey Lee]

You weren't sexy enough. You know what I mean?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

So somewhere along the line, I think I was trying to send him some beats for something and whatever, whatever. And we were just trying to. We were always, over the years, have conversations about our place in hip hop. And then recently there was a time when I'm noticing that our generation is not being as critiqued as much. Not being as told you can't do it. And then albums are coming out from people, people older than us, our age and younger than us. That's within that five, seven year span. I'm like, wow, this is, this is good. And I, I. So I said, you know, and I'm doing Black Rob. So I dropped Black Rob. So I'm like, you know, Trey, so we need to work on something. Trey said, well, you know, in this time that we gotta. We should shoot a video to be warned that we made years ago. Be warned is seven years old now. People didn't know that. Know it now. But so we shot a video to it and the response was as if we made the record the week before. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think that triggered the ep. Let's do three or four songs. Let's do three or four songs. We got to those songs and I was like, this shit gonna come and go in a day. And I just feel like making more records. So Trey was like, let's go.

[Trey Lee]

Nah. And then let's keep it a hundred, though. Yeah. You had a chip on your shoulder a little bit.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Trey Lee]

I got a chip on my shoulder a little bit. Because I don't think, you know, going back to all the story we just had with Dot and his history and who he's worked with and blah, blah, blah. I don't think he gets the proper credit in my, in my mind for being one of the top producers of all time. You see what I'm saying? And I don't think people properly heard. Heard me as a lyricist.

[Rory Farrell]

I was hoping you was about.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah.

[Trey Lee]

You know what I'm saying? Because of the magnitude of the first record that you ever heard from me, which is the theme is party time, which is a monster record. And I. And this is the reason why I still get phone calls. But I don't think that people Heard the dynamics of the lyricism that I think that I put my blood. He always teasing me, teases me about it. Because everything that I write has a purpose, and it's intricate, and there's all kind of shit. It's layers and layers that a lot of the art just got, you know, party time on their mind. And they just think that that's all that Tray Lee is. So that was also a part of the motivation to creating.

[Rory Farrell]

And know he went toe to toe with big on versus.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I was just about to say on the 30th convo about big and because you have to ask yourself, and got him. Why would Big do a record with Trey? So there's a part of us that says, we still need you to know why one of the greatest that you think is the greatest did a record with this guy and didn't do a record with you. Because most of the questions are coming from people that are envious of the fact that Trey even got to do a record with Big and they didn't.

[Trey Lee]

That's real rap.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah.

[Trey Lee]

I was gonna let y' all say it. I ain't wanna.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

You know, I'll say it.

[Rory Farrell]

But I also think too, like, you know, hip hop being the youngest genre, which you're talking about off mic, like, we're finally seeing how it can age. Cause a lot of times when we saw what would be, quote, unquote, older rappers, it looked like you was the old guy in the club. But now we're starting, see Nas doing six projects with Hit Boy. It doesn't sound. You don't sound like you're trying to be young. And there's also a whole audience. I'm 36. My cousin is 47. He wants to listen to the rap he grew up on, and he wants them to keep making music.

[Trey Lee]

That's a whole nother decade.

[Rory Farrell]

He's not even trying to listen to what's out now. He wants to hear Nas rap again. To me, it's important to show that hip hop can age gracefully where it used to be. No country for Old men. And I don't think that's the case anymore.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Well, I don't think it's the case anymore either. But I don't think that the youth have embodied that sentiment yet. I think that our generation has decided that there's nothing else. It's almost like by default, we got to an age where some of this young shit I try, but I just can't get to it. So now the Drakes, the J. Coles, and above the Lil Waynes and all of them. If that's what I have as a 58, 60 year old, then I might have to leave that to the kids. So then what's left for me? Cause I can't. I love Drake and I love Lil Wayne and I love Cole and Kendrick and all these, but I might not be able to relate all the way to what their time is and to

[Trey Lee]

keep it a buck. Shit, they 40.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Well, yeah, so you know what I'm saying.

[Rory Farrell]

But still, that's the other thing. They older than me.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

But 18, 20, 15 years is a huge difference for the way we've been programmed in hip hop. So 58 years old and 57s and 55s and all that, when that opportunity came, I think it was more by almost by default because our generation is like, wow, I turned on terrestrial radio, I'm not gonna hear you guys. So Rock the Bells grew out of that. Yeah. All these old school stations grew out of the necessary need to feed a machine of people that said, if it ain't Nas and met the man with new albums, I might like a Drake song. I might like this. I might like, I even might like a Chris Brown song. But I'm lean more towards Usher, but I might get a new. My wife, My wife likes Chris Brown, but she ain't, you know, Usher comes out, she going to the concert. Chris Brown goes out, comes out, she might go to the concert, but it ain't all, it ain't all hands on deck. You see what I'm saying to you? So all I'm saying is I think we found a way to feed our generation property.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

And if we can deliver music like I think we delivered on Law and disorder where it's, it's, we're not reaching. We got songs like, like this that's reminiscent of old, but it feels new

[Rory Farrell]

to need a lawyer like that.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah, right, right, right, right, right. So, so ESQ after service and then also like I said, his story of, of growth, going from rapper to going to law school, passing the bar, actually being a. Working an attorney and then still being having the skill set to keep up with whoever you think is high and the record making skills that. Whereas we got guys from our generation that haven't gone on a law school, that haven't become firemen and teachers and they still doing it and their record making skills haven't shown any growth.

[Rory Farrell]

Yeah, right.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah, right. And this large disorder is growth.

[Rory Farrell]

The most positive thing I've seen from the disgusting part of hip hop media and comments was actually when Andre 3000 did his flute album and he did an interview and he said, I don't want to rap. What am I rap about? Getting colonoscopy. And everyone in the comments said, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we're all at this age. No, no, that's exact. That's exactly what I want to hear you rap about.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Right, but that's like.

[Rory Farrell]

Because we're growing with you as well.

[Trey Lee]

Like.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

But again, from his perspective, 444 was

[Rory Farrell]

the best thing HOV ever did to pivot to the people that grew up

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

with him to be adulthood. Yeah, yeah, right. And I'm saying too, not every artist wants to put their lives on wax for their audience. So if it's not for entertainment purposes only, then why am I doing it? So, for example, tell me something you really know about. About Busta Rhymes from a personal standpoint.

[Rory Farrell]

From his records, he's the greatest dapper of all time.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

So I'm saying

[Rory Farrell]

if you need your back cracked, he will dap you and break your busta. He'll put you in a chokehold when he sees you.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Absolutely. But he's clearly decided he's not gonna spell out his life for you on wax.

[Rory Farrell]

See.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

So his record making is gonna be. Be for entertainment purposes only. You don't hear Buster make introspective records about.

[Rory Farrell]

Nope. See, I'm give you. I'mma give you. I'm going give you pushback impeach if we have to mark this because we can't hear it best. I can with Rhapsody with that album.

[Trey Lee]

Well, that, that album.

[Rory Farrell]

This is all about dealing with custody battles albums though.

[Trey Lee]

That album as a body of work.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

As a body of work, that's not what you heard. So some people may.

[Trey Lee]

I love that.

[Rory Farrell]

It's really good.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Some people may say at this age here, I should be rapping about this. But I'm almost 58. About 58. And on this album, you ain't gonna hear nothing about me having arthritis in my neck and my back. You ain't gonna hear nothing about the problems I'm going through with my daughters, raising daughters, and all this other stuff unless I'm doing it in such a way that can entertain you. And that's what I'm saying. So at the end of the day, record making still comes down to how do I entertain you enough for this story story for you to like and love this story?

[Rory Farrell]

And we brought up 444. I think NAS Life is Good is the better example of that entire thing.

[Trey Lee]

I love that album.

[Rory Farrell]

444 was just raw emotion.

[Trey Lee]

Life is good.

[Rory Farrell]

Life is good. It's the same content with records that you could go to the gym, you could be in the car, do that.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Right. That's what I'm saying.

[Rory Farrell]

But on the Buster side, Busted, to me is almost. He's almost Chris Brown. Like, where you're a legend, you have hit records, you have all this. You've never given us a quintessential. Like, I don't.

[Public Investing (advertisement voice)]

What.

[Rory Farrell]

What's the Busta album?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I mean, that's. That's a whole other sub. I just meant content wise. There's some artists that, yes, you're growing with them, but you're not growing with them. In the sanctions of their lives. They're not taking you through every part of what they're going through in life. See what I'm saying to you? Some artists do that. Jay, we know Jay's mother, we know he shot his brother. We know he sold drugs. We got stories that we could tell. We know what happened with him and the guys that got locked. We know what happened when they came home, how we put them on. We know the guys he sold drugs with. You got an artist like Buster, who's one of the greatest artists we ever have, you don't have a lot of those records from him because he didn't want to put that out there. So at 55, 54, he is. You probably won't. You shouldn't expect all of a sudden for this turn to happen, and all of a sudden you're gonna learn all about Mr. Busta Rhymes in one song,

[Trey Lee]

in both of what you're talking about. This still is a. It still has to be. In order for you to be considered dope, in my opinion, you still have to have a creative aspect to it. Like whether you talking about your life story or you just talking about, you know what I'm saying, how nice you are on the mic. You know, I mean, and that's what Law and Disorder is to me. It's beats and rhymes. It's. It's essentially we. We may give you a peek into and a little tidbit of this, that and the third. But it goes down to the beats and rhymes and how creative the flows are and what pockets we're in the.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

In the.

[Trey Lee]

In the production and what pockets we're choosing to get and out of that production. I think, especially at this stage in the game, in order for us to be palatable to not only our age group, but even those that are just being introduced to us for the first time if it's not appealing to the ear, no matter what the subject matter is. And that's where the creativity comes into play. Like, how can you say certain things? You may, we may give you braggadocio throughout the whole album. But, but, but, but how did they say, like, how did it come off? You know what I'm saying? And that to me is the essence of what we call hip hop, you know what I'm saying?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

And I think learn disorder is exactly that. At my age, I don't feel like I have nothing to prove. I have a chip, but the chip. I don't wake up every day and it's weighing me down. It's just like any other person. You have to ask yourself, did I do enough? You see what I'm saying? Like, you know, I'm a achievement oriented person. When I set out to do something, I don't have to be number one at it, but I gotta get it done. You know what I mean? I'm a get it done person. So this album was to show the world that I'm at a space in my life. And he's at a space in his life where this is semi easy for us and we're just gonna have some fun. But we're not, not trying to take it back to 88.

[Trey Lee]

Right, right.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

And set the record straight type of thing. We're gonna, we. I feel like we grew as lyricists, emcees, flows, and you can hear it. Yeah. And as a producer, some of these albums, I hear that some of the. Some ones you named or some of the ones we didn't name, I don't hear growth. I hear moment in time for them. And it's a good opportunity to drop an album. But I don't hear growth. I don't hear a space that now I can see the maturation because of how you set me up as opposed to I'm gonna take you back to 88. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Learning disorder is not a take back. It's a wow. This reminds me of. But it's now.

[Rory Farrell]

I was watching a Chris Rock interview when Tribe thank you for your service came out. And he was describing why that album was good. And he said, it's the first time I've heard older rappers not rap about what they used to do.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Right.

[Rory Farrell]

You. You become the yesteryear. Like, yo, you remember, we were legends and we did all that.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Right.

[Trey Lee]

To your point, let me say this because I don't think this gets a cross enough. You know, I'm saying From the time that I did it. And I'm not just saying it because it's me. How many lawyers that used to be ch. Chart topping artists are there out there? Well, there's no one.

[Rory Farrell]

There's a reason why that'd go against the system, right? But you can have an artist that's also a lawyer, you know what I'm saying?

[Trey Lee]

But there's growth there.

[Rory Farrell]

And that's the reason Universal would like that. No, hell no.

[Paramount Plus (advertisement voice)]

Hell no.

[Trey Lee]

But it's like, that's why I damn near mentioning in every song, because I don't think you understand the magnitude of what this shit is like. This is some real shit. Like what? You know what I'm saying? But yeah, that law and disorder, of course, if you could put it together, I'm the law and that's the disorder.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

And it's a culmination of people know me as the mad rapper. They know beats. But it's also just saying in these times of producer, rap, rapper, what I haven't heard, except maybe a little bit with Dre and Snoop, was any of these guys having fun, right? Like. Like you named albums. Them sessions don't sound fun. I mean, them sound intense, dark, the weed is black. Like, it just sound like the liquor's dark brown. Nothing sounds like they was having fun. It all sounds so serious. Like they got all this other shit going on. On. I'm in the studio, I got slippers on, incense lit. We watching porn. Oh, my God. Feed in the air.

[Trey Lee]

I'm not.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

We doing all of that.

[Trey Lee]

I'm not doing that. I got glass of wine.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

He got wine. I got whatever. I got everybody. But we having fun.

[Trey Lee]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

You know what I'm saying? Like, it's like imagining being in a Rihanna session during them times. Like, how fun was those sessions? That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm trying. That's where we at. We at the session. I'm sending songs and I'm giggling when I said to your dog, you're gonna enjoy this one so much. You know what I'm saying? Not like, yo, fam, we gotta kill this joint. None of that. Yeah, yeah, none of that. We passed that. So that's low and disorder. And I'm always gonna be a habitual line step anyway, you know what I'm saying? So that's. It's the disorder part, you know what I mean?

[Rory Farrell]

Well, I really appreciate you guys pulling up. Lawn disorder is out now, now. And just for my own selfish reasons, I want to tell you guys this makes podcasting not a job to me is sitting with guys like you.

[Trey Lee]

I, I, I appreciate

[Rory Farrell]

little Rory, like, when he was 10 years old, couldn't imagine sitting on a couch with. With guys like you. So this, this is something that, that's not real suburban. I don't.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Little Rory would like to go meet you guys. That's just smoking.

[Rory Farrell]

He was smoking. Black.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Give a shout out to a couple people real quick before you, before you finish. Ojiz.

[Trey Lee]

Yes.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Riz Deluxe.

[Trey Lee]

Yes.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Sherry John. Sherry John. God bless Black Rob.

[Trey Lee]

Yep.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

DJ Blinks.

[Trey Lee]

Yep.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Down there at Blinks Basement. And everybody else who participated, man, we just.

[Trey Lee]

Oh, my cousin Eric, who did Eric on the artwork. Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Sherry John out of Brooklyn. She sang on the album for us. Did a beautiful job. So all those people, I just. Everybody good, good looking. Cause you know, platforms, they watch your platform.

[Trey Lee]

Yes.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

You know what I'm saying? So I want to make sure that they know we recognize their efforts in helping us pull this thing off.

[Trey Lee]

We appreciate you having this, man.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah, we appreciate. You know what I'm saying?

[Rory Farrell]

Dude, do we get a live show?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

What's that mean?

[Trey Lee]

Yeah, what the show?

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

When?

[Rory Farrell]

With y'.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

All.

[Rory Farrell]

I'm saying, do we get a live.

[Trey Lee]

A live show? Y'. All.

[Rory Farrell]

Y' all on tour? Any. Anything.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Oh, you mean, you mean, are we doing. Yeah, yeah, we got some. I'll send you all of that. We gotta just.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trey Lee]

All summer long.

[Rory Farrell]

All summer.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah, Yeah. I was confused. I was like, you want us get up here? Just.

[Public Investing (advertisement voice)]

No.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I was like, no,

[Rory Farrell]

Tor the album.

[Trey Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yes, yes.

[Trey Lee]

Oh, yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

We doing D.C. next week. We got Brooklyn.

[Trey Lee]

Brooklyn.

[Rory Farrell]

All right.

[Rory Malloy]

Definitely be there.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

The block party.

[Trey Lee]

Come through, please.

[Rory Farrell]

Absolutely.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Yeah. We doing that Ace Litten AC for Charlie Mack and them joints.

[Trey Lee]

20th.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Y. That's the 20th? Yeah. Off the top of my head, you know, we have the other person here to have it. Oh, don't forget 1987. I don't know all that. That's the other part. Rory, keep it real. I love playing artists. Right now, usually I'm on the other side. This is so fun.

[Rory Farrell]

Just let everyone.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I get to show up, smoke, and do me on the camera.

[Trey Lee]

Yeah.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

I don't have to order no cars, worry about where he at. Where she at. Somebody else. That is love grown Rona with grown men that is like. Yeah, like this. So this whole Law and Disorder is just fun? Yes, just that. We just have fun for real.

[Trey Lee]

So make sure y' all go cop that man platforms out now. Make sure y' all go listen to it.

[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

Please begging

[Rory Farrell]

appreciate you.

[Reese Witherspoon (advertisement voice)]

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[Rory Farrell]

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[Rory Malloy]

is brought to you by Choiceology, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Hosted by Katie Milkman, an award winning behavioral scientist and author of the bestselling book how to Change Change, Choiceology is a show about the psychology and economics behind our decisions. Hear true stories from Nobel laureates, authors, athletes and everyday people about why we make the choices we do and how to make better ones to help avoid costly mistakes. Listen to [e-mail] podcast or wherever you listen.

[Rory Farrell]

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[D.Dot (Derrick Angeletti)]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.