Episode 502 | 38 Spesh

Summary

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New Rory & MAL – Episode 502 | 38 Spesh

Release Date: June 4, 2026
Guest: 38 Spesh (Rapper/Producer)

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Overview

In this episode, Rory and Maul dive deep with Rochester’s own 38 Spesh—a respected rapper and producer, fresh off dropping his new project "Eight Shots." The conversation spans Spesh’s dual talents in rapping and producing, his come-up from Upstate New York, pivotal collaborations, the politics of rap lists, creative process insights, upstate NY's influence on hip-hop, and memorable moments from working with legends like Kool G Rap, Jadakiss, Busta Rhymes, Method Man, and more. They also tackle vulnerability in hip-hop, male mental health, and why Spesh feels at home among the culture's most elite MCs.

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Guest Introduction & Early Career

[02:40-05:22]

• Maul introduces 38 Spesh, noting his recent presence "shaking the Internet" and vouches for his long-standing support of Spesh’s music.
• Rory shouts out Spesh’s new project "Eight Shots" as his "soundtrack to Philly and back" over the weekend.
• Spesh expresses gratitude for Maul’s early support and discusses evolving from "Five Shots"—his first self-produced project.

“Hearing those good reactions from that actually gave me the confidence to say… let me continue producing these. I never got a chance to thank you for that.” — 38 Spesh [03:49]

Discussion Points:

• Spesh’s journey as both rapper and producer, starting to rap at age 7 and produce on the MPC by 14.
• Getting mentored by DC Maestro; early studio opportunities courtesy of neighborhood connections.
• His pivotal introduction to DJ Green Lantern through a road manager (Cuzzo), leading to mentorship and validation as Green’s artist.

“It was a test... let me see how people respond.” — 38 Spesh on first producing his own body of work [03:50]

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Finding His Way in Hip-Hop—Authenticity and The Upstate Story

[05:22–14:12]

The Importance of Presence & Industry Etiquette

• Maul and Spesh discuss navigating industry spaces with humility and learning by observing rather than forcing attention.
• Green Lantern’s co-sign opens doors based on Spesh’s professionalism and performance.

“The way you handle yourself… especially when you’re young, it translates and goes a long way… Observe more than you’re talking.” — Maul [06:29]

Upstate vs. the City: Breaking Out

• Spesh addresses the disconnect between NYC’s recognition and Upstate’s talent, noting how Green Lantern’s path gave hope.
• 2019-2020 marked the turning point with Griselda’s rise and broader recognition for Upstate artists.

“You gotta just perfect your craft… Green was a perfect example of that. But, you know, it definitely was a disconnect to get support from the city… That took a while, but just like anything, I had to show and prove.” — 38 Spesh [08:59]

Upstate’s Unique Vibe & Welcome

• The group reflects on Upstate’s reputation for being “more chaotic” and sometimes unsafe, but ultimately more collaborative and welcoming than NYC.
• Maul points to the hunger and unique stories Upstate brings to NY hip-hop, noting it as both a gift and a curse to have been overlooked for so long.

Key Quotes:

• “If you’re talented enough, motherfuckers from outside where you’re from, they’ll find you.” — 38 Spesh [08:48]
• “Upstate is dominating us (NYC) and it’s not even remotely close.” — Rory [09:39]
• “It kind of helped… when the flood happens, people want, like, oh shit, they got stories up there too.” — Maul [12:45]

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Collaborations: Kool G Rap, DJ Premier & Timelessness

[14:25–17:00]

Making “Son of G Rap”

• Preem (DJ Premier) helped Spesh connect with Kool G Rap for a collaborative album, initiated and held back for four years to ensure a better climate for lyricism.

“That’s the beauty about making timeless music and not following trends… I was able to hold onto the project for four years, till I learned the business and the proper way to release it.” — 38 Spesh [15:23]

• Recognition that lyricism re-emerged as a cultural focal point (e.g., Pusha T, Drake, mainstream beefs).
• G Rap’s influence is stressed as fundamental in New York lyricism, with all-time greats (AZ, Nas, Jay-Z) crediting him.

“I call myself the Son of G Rap. Because I felt like the rappers know how nice I am before the rest of them.” — 38 Spesh [17:04]

On Rap Rankings

• The group blasts rap lists like Complex putting Kool G Rap at #30—arguing his place is foundational, especially for mafioso rap and NYC’s sound.

“There’s not 29 rappers from New York City better than G Rap… It’s just not.” — Maul [19:11]

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Influences & Creative Approach

[20:21–24:07]

Lyrical & Production Inspirations

• Spesh lists Nas, Jay-Z, DMX, Big Pun, Kool G Rap, Tupac, Young Jeezy—each for different reasons (lyrics, realism, energy, motivation, emotionality).

“I pulled from different rappers for certain things… Jay-Z for motivation, DMX for energy, Pac for emotion, Jeezy for trap motivation.” — 38 Spesh [21:48]

• On production: Premier, Pete Rock, Dr. Dre, Havoc (emphasizing Mobb Deep’s lasting influence on upstate NY sound).
• Explains how age and life experiences affect which classic albums hit hardest.

“I was 9 when Illmatic came out… so a couple years later, I got more of an understanding.” — 38 Spesh [24:07]

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Viral Moments: The Jadakiss “Ducking the Verse” Story

[29:14–45:00]

The Backstory

• Spesh clarifies recent viral talk about Jadakiss allegedly “ducking” him for a feature:
  • They have a relationship and talk often
  • After “Sunday School,” Kiss said, “I owe you one. Send it over.”
  • Spesh sent multiple records over the years with no verse in return.

“If you tell me you gonna do something… I’m gonna do my part.” — 38 Spesh [32:10]

• He likens their dynamic to basketball, arguing that it’s fair to “rearrange your top five” as new talent proves themselves, and that it’s a sport to want to rap among the greats.

“If I’m sending you my best, I expect you to send it back… it’s sport. I’m outside.” — 38 Spesh [34:45]

Sunday School Showdown

• Discusses how he wrote his praised verse for Benny the Butcher’s “Sunday School”—exhausted at 4 am after recording 10 tracks, almost scrapping what would become a standout.
• Maul and Rory agree Spesh’s verse stood out, even over Kiss and Benny; the song title itself was inspired by his wordplay.

“Who said Sunday School in their verse?… The song was named after my verse.” — 38 Spesh [43:42]

• Explains the difference between writing verses in the studio with others vs. sending stems; claims true MCs shine under time pressure.

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On Vulnerability, Mental Health, and Relatability

[45:00–47:49]

• Spesh touches sensitive ground with bars about not sharing feelings with his partner, for fear they’ll be weaponized later, sparking a relatable and honest group discussion.

“Cause when she get mad, she repeat that shit. Ain’t that shit relatable, though?” — 38 Spesh [45:05]

• The discussion highlights why men struggle with vulnerability in their relationships.
• Praise for the song "Mental Health," featuring Che Noir, discussing not knowing what mental health even was growing up.

“It’s not really premeditated. That shit is spiritual… The music is the foundation.” — 38 Spesh [47:02]

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Features, New Talent & Legacy

[47:49–55:45]

Working With Legends

• Busta Rhymes: Spesh reveals Bus nearly upstaged him on their record and loved the competitive energy.

“It’s beautiful… he didn’t come to play… Shout out to Bus.” — 38 Spesh [48:28]

• Curtis Coke (“Great Wall”): Curtis earns immediate co-sign for his rapping ability.

“Beware of Curtis Coke… extremely talented.” — 38 Spesh [48:55]

• Method Man: Meth continues killing hooks, and Spesh emphasizes that working with legends is always about mutual respect for the art, not politics.

“Every time I hit him, he come through.” — 38 Spesh [54:21]

• On Upstate’s lack of recognition in “Top 50 NY Rappers” lists: Spesh shrugs it off, calling those lists “political,” preferring independence and peer recognition over validation by media.

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On Song Verses, Surprises, and Standout Moments

[61:24–68:10]

• Listener’s question: Examples where “the worst rapper on the song has the best verse.”
  • Nature on “Banned from TV”
  • 2 Chainz on “Mercy”
  • Nicki Minaj on “Monster” (discussed as maybe not the “worst” but the least known at the time)
  • Eazy-E on “For the Love of Money”
  • Remy Ma on “Lean Back”
  • Bleek on “Coming of Age” (debatable if he wrote his verse)

“Eazy had the best standout verse… We used to sing that shit word for word, man.” — 38 Spesh [65:12]

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The Future: What’s Next for 38 Spesh

[68:10–69:08]

• Spesh promises another solo album before the year is out (likely in September), plus “a few produced albums” and more hard freestyles.
• Teases works with upcoming talents, mentions actively building his own studio with an obsessive attention to engineering and gear.

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Creative Process & Self-Reliance

[60:14–61:08]

• Details building his own studio setup, crediting local mentors like Rome for teaching him engineering and mixing/mastering.
• Expresses pride in being fully self-sufficient: “I get it now… He just don’t want to have to ask nobody for [nothing]. I’m gonna do this, produce this, record this, mix this… all that.” — Maul [61:06]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “You gotta give them a chance to duck you.” — 38 Spesh on repeatedly trying for a Kiss verse [32:36]
• “If we were in the studio together, everybody would see it’s a difference… Let’s see who delivers [on the spot].” — 38 Spesh on why “live” is different than emailing verses [40:41]
• “I always been a fan of Alchemist… Me and Pete, I got some shit coming for him… the usual suspects.” — 38 Spesh [59:01-59:47]
• “My respect for legends is up here… I came in this shit with the Sonny G Rap [ethos].” — 38 Spesh [18:27]
• “I know how it is to be nice and not be discovered for a long time… So when I come across motherfuckers I feel as though is nice… that keeps my pen sharp, too.” — 38 Spesh [53:34-54:07]
• “Outside of getting the Kiss verse… Jay and Nas would be like the only motherfuckers I would look forward to.” — 38 Spesh [57:26]

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Episode Dynamics & Tone

• Language and Tone: Candid, competitive, authentic, and occasionally combative (in a respectful, “iron sharpens iron” hip-hop spirit). The group maintains a balance of insider conversation and explanation for listeners.
• Energy: Philosophical about the culture and the “game,” but always rooted in concrete examples and Spesh’s lived experience.
• Memorability: The episode stands out for its deep dive into the unwritten rules and hierarchy of hip-hop, the nitty-gritty of Spesh’s creative process, his steadfastness about integrity, and a rare look into the emotional complexities behind the bravado.

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Recommended Skips

• Ads, intro/outro, and sponsor messages occur at the start and after 49:19 [timestamps: 00:02–02:40, 49:19–52:51, 70:19–end]

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For New Listeners

If you want to get an authentic look at modern independent NY hip-hop, the struggles and pride of Upstate artists, and the mind of a rapper-producer still proving himself at the highest level—this episode is a must.

Key Sections to Check Out:

• Spesh’s dual journey as rapper/producer [03:13–05:23]
• The Jadakiss situation and how competition shapes the art [29:14–45:00]
• Mental Health and vulnerability in hip-hop [45:00–47:49]
• Deep cut on hip-hop’s hierarchy and influence lists [17:00–20:05, 55:18–57:00]
• The secret sauce of Upstate NY sound and why “Eight Shots” is just the latest in a series of statement projects [07:44–14:12, 68:10–69:08]

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Final Word:
38 Spesh is a craftsman—in rhyme, production, and the unshakeable confidence that comes from surviving the Upstate grind. This episode is part history lesson, part therapy session, part competitive callout… and a whole lot of fun.

Go listen to "Eight Shots." Trust.

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Transcript

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

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[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

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[Rory (Co-host)]

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[Rory (Co-host)]

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[Maul (Co-host)]

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[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

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[Podcast Host/Announcer]

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[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

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[Podcast Host/Announcer]

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[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

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[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

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[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

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[Podcast Host/Announcer]

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[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

No worry. Enough. No conductor. No worrying. Ma.

[Maul (Co-host)]

All right, Rory. We are back with another episode of the new Rory and Maul podcast. Of course, I am Maul.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I'm Rory.

[Maul (Co-host)]

And today, Rory, we are joined by somebody. I think it's perfect timing. Yeah, that we had this guy, but this is somebody that we supported for a while. We've been talking about having on for a while. So he's finally here today, shaking the Internet up over the last couple of days with some things he's been talking about.

[Rory (Co-host)]

And my soundtrack to Philly and Beck over the weekend.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Eight Shots available now. If you haven't gotten that today, we are joined by Rochester's very own.38 Special is in the building.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Trust.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Trust.

[Maul (Co-host)]

What's going on, fam?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Hey, man, I'm chilling, man. I'm feeling great, man.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Good to have you here, man. We've been talking about having you on for a minute. So, you know, timing is everything.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah, man, I appreciate you having me. You wanna know what's crazy about me dropping eight shots right now? Is that you was one. I remember when I dropped five Shots, you was one of the first ones. You actually talked about it, covered it, you know what I'm saying? And that was the first. It was a record on there called Yesterday. I remember you was talking about. And Five Shots was the first time I had actually produced a project, a whole body of work.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Okay.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

It was like a test, you know what I mean? Let me see how the people responded to that. So hearing those good reactions from that actually gave me the confidence to say, oh, okay, let me continue on producing these. So that's dope, though. I never got a chance to thank you for that.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Appreciate that, bro. That's another thing I wanna point out, too. He's not just rapping. Spesh is producing a lot of this shit as well, if not most of it.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Right.

[Maul (Co-host)]

You know what I mean? That's something that we don't talk about a lot with. I think we had the conversation with rappers that produced their own stuff. Rock was one of the guys that we saluted. But Spesh is in that same category as well, of being able to pull out. Cause it's not easy to do that as a rapper. It's not easy to produce your own music.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Nah, it's not. And it's not easy to focus and be nice at both.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know what I'm saying?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Is that something that you set out to do from the beginning, or was it something that you just found out for? Was you a producer first and then started writing bars, or was you writing bars first and then and started producing?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I started them both very early, but I started rapping first. I started rapping like I was like a kid rapper, like 7 years old, looking up to my older bros and shit.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

But Then I started producing probably at like 14.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Okay.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know what I'm saying?

[Rory (Co-host)]

What were you using?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Mpc.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Okay.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Shout out to DC maestro. OG back in my town taught me how to use it as a young kid. I used to. Older drug dealers used to pay for studio time and would bring me like, yo, bring him. Cause I knew how to make the beat. And that was my access to get around the equipment.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Okay.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know, from me doing that, I end up becoming nice on it. And that's how I ended up gaining a relationship with Green Lantern. Cause he heard one of the beats I made. I was only 16 when he heard the beat.

[Rory (Co-host)]

How did Green hear it?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

So shout out to my homie Cuzzo. He was Green Lantern road manager and he was from my hood. He just knew me as a young nigga. And I spit him like, yo, I make beats. He was like, yo, give me a cd, I'll take it to Green Lantern. I gave him the cd. Green heard a beat on there and said, man, if a 16 year old made this beat, I need to meet him.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Okay?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

And that's how I met Green. And Green would just have me as his little man around him. I'd be around him as he was making beats and shit. And I was always rapping, but I was a kid, so he didn't really pay attention to that, you know what I mean? Wasn't till I was 19 and he put me on the spot one time with Smack dvd and a bunch of rappers was on the session in a station. He liked how I handled myself, okay? When I left that, he was telling motherfuckers I was his artist. He was introducing me as his artist from that day.

[Maul (Co-host)]

See, I like that Spetch said that. Cause that's very important. Like when you are ushered into certain rooms with certain people. The way you handle yourself and the way you conduct yourself in those environments, especially when you're young, it translates and it goes a long way. A lot of people get opportunity like, yo, come on, come with me over here. And then they just blow the opportunity. Cause they in there doing too much talking when they not supposed to overextending themselves. And it's like, you gotta understand how to just be cool in certain moments. Observe more than you talking, listen and just like understand like it's a privilege to be here. So the fact that you said that, like he liked the way I was moving and how I handle myself in the room, right? And now he got you on this wing like, yo, this is my artist now. Just the way you did that right. Translated into a whole another situation that now he running around telling people you his artist.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Exactly.

[Maul (Co-host)]

So that's important, you know what I'm saying? Cuz a lot of people, you know, they blow, they shot.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah, for sure.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Going in a room and it's like, I'm never taking this. No again.

[Rory (Co-host)]

That was a time too. We always talk about, obviously, flex freestyles, CL mixing the Green Lantern freestyle. That was an era like that broke a lot of that mid 2000s artists like you went to Green, that needs to be on YouTube or they need to find a way to put all those freestyles out in the forefront now.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that because that explains a lot why I rap the way I rap. I came up in that era watching that.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah, okay.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You understand on the Cyphers, you gotta go live, you know, all of that, like I was watching that and I was, you know, that was the shit. So, you know, those is the environments I thrive in, you know, more of a cypher based environment where it's a bunch of rappers and we all get our shit off. Yeah, that song shit is some shit I grew to.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, you gotta become an artist. Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

But the raw talent is. My best environment is those on the Cypher, Green Lantern freestyle environments, you know what I'm saying?

[Rory (Co-host)]

Even with your relationship with Green, did you still feel like there was a disconnect because you were upstate versus. Cause at that time, the city was pretty prominent. Not. Not like it isn't anymore, but New York City was it at that point.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

So, you know, definitely it was a disconnect with getting the recognition from New York City, you know, coming from all the way up there. You know, Green is from up there. We both from the same place.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know, and so that always gave me some type of hope to know, like, all right, if you're talented enough, motherfuckers from outside of where you from, you know, they'll find you. They'll find you.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You gotta just perfect your craft and, you know, and Green was a perfect example of that. But, you know, it definitely was a disconnect to get support from the city. Seeing you from a place they never heard before, you know, and that took a while, but just like anything I had to show and prove. Yeah. You know, and I respect that because, you know, just like anything that's brought to us brand new, it's like, it's hard to say. You gotta show when you talk of this rap shit, you know, this is something that you gotta show and prove. You Know what I mean? It don't. You know, and it took some time because due to the lack of recognition, but, you know, I put the work in. Right.

[Rory (Co-host)]

When did you feel that shift? Cause as a New Yorker, I can always be objective. Upstate is dominating us, and it's not even remotely close. When did you feel that shift happening where upstate started to kind of be the identity of New York sound over New York City?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Hmm. Like, I seen it start getting heavy around, like, 20, 19, 2020. Yeah, I seen, like, okay, you know, they starting to really, you know, pay us some attention. Like, with the Griselda, it was like, all right, you know, that was the start. Like, all right. They starting to pay attention from people over here, you know, then it just started getting a little more heavy, you know, around 2019, 2020. It's like, all right, they see it's talent up here, you know what I'm saying? And starting to respect it. You know, it's one thing. It's like, oh, nah, y' all gotta watch out for them upstate boys, you know what I mean? Like, you know? So, yeah, about 20, 19, 2020, where it was all the way, like, oh, okay, now they here.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah, yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know what I mean?

[Maul (Co-host)]

And it's like an unspoken thing. Like, you know, when you. From New York City to five boroughs. Of course, we know Rochester, Syracuse, we know all of that up there. We know Buffalo. But people outside of New York City don't understand, like, that part of New York, they just think five boroughs when they. When they think in New York.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Right.

[Maul (Co-host)]

And I'll be trying to tell people, like, you know, it's like some real wild shit that goes on outside of the five boroughs of New York, the state of New York, probably wilder. Insane.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

It's insane. You got to realize, man, due to lack of opportunity, it's gonna be a lot more tension. Yeah. You know, a lot more poverty, which means a lot more chaos. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, man. You know, a lot of people unfamiliar with it until they either go to college.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah. Right.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Or prison.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Right.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

That's when we all brought together and you realize. Hold on. It's other energies in this state.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Absolutely.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know what I'm saying? And that's.

[Rory (Co-host)]

That's actually a very fair point, because for me, it was college. I went up to Binghamton, and I was like, oh, this is a whole world up here. Yeah. Binghamton was like my first. Then I went up to Cuse, went up to Rochester, Buffalo. Like, we would do the whole circuit up there, right? And just parties and shit and. Yeah, it's a whole different world.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Whole different energy. Yeah, Right.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Facts, but definitely much more chaotic. And I'll say I felt always way more unsafe up there than I did.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yes. It's a lot more unsafer. I would have to agree. You know what I'm saying?

[Rory (Co-host)]

You know, we drove through Niagara once. I was like, yo, get me the back to New York City.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Shout out to Niagara Falls, man. Yeah, yeah, right.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Right next to Canada.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah, the New York State.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Scary.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yo, listen. But that's. That's. That's. That's. To me, I think that's what kind of in a wild way, because, you know, guys from Rochester, Syracuse, Buffalo, those parts of New York, Binghamton, they always spent years trying to be heard and be accepted in music, right?

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Maul (Co-host)]

But to me, that kind of helped because now when the flood happens, it's like people want, like, oh, shit. They got stories up there, too. They got something to say, too. They got a whole different energy. Like you said, it's a whole lot of things going on. So I think, in a way, it kind of helped not being heard so soon with the rest of New York City, the five boroughs, and then people finding upstate rappers and hearing those stories like, oh, shit, this is a whole untapped part of New York that we don't know about. Right.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Different perspective to it.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Different perspective in slang, the way they say things, it's just a whole different. But it's still New York, though, definitely. You know what I mean? So I think it was a gift and a curse that it kind of happened when it did.

[Rory (Co-host)]

And, I mean, I'm saying the unsafe thing, but the. The positive side of it, I always felt like upstate, when I got to know a lot of Upstate guys, like, a lot of Griselda's cousins are Kappas that went to Buff State and shit. So I was around, like, the Griselda family early because they would just be always willing to work with somebody, want to collab on something. It's not so much like it is down here, where we're really standoffish. Everyone in Buff was down to work with anybody. We can make something happen. Let's do it. Like, it's a more welcoming energy. So as much as I say unsafe, sure. But it is of, hey, if we could both benefit from this, let's do it.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Rory (Co-host)]

It's a warmer feeling, I think, up there than it is down here, which is why I think Upstate took over. Not to say that they all unified per se, but everyone's working Together creating a sound. Oh, you from Rochester, you from above. That don't matter.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Like, right?

[Rory (Co-host)]

We're battling fucking all of 85 all the way down to New York City.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Like, shout out to Etho, too. My man Etho.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Shout out to Etho.

[Maul (Co-host)]

That's my guy. He from up there?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Definitely.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah. That's my man Etho.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Go back since, like, 16 years old.

[Maul (Co-host)]

That's my man right there. I fuck with Etho. Something I always wanted to ask you special. How the hell did you get to do an entire project with Coogee Rap? How the fuck did that happen?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Shout out to DJ Premier.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Ok. Shout out to Preem.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

That was Preem, man. Like, well, helping me. Because I told Preem. I'm like, yo, Preem. I told him that whole idea. Like, I want. I want to make an album. Like, you know, saluting G Rap, man. You know, I really respect what he brought.

[Maul (Co-host)]

That's right.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I'm like, you know, he was like, word. He was like, I hit him. I'm like, yo, man, hit him, man. You know, let's do a record, man. And, you know, and he put the play together. And then when I did the record with G and I sat down and I explained it to him, he was like, man, that'd be an honor, man.

[Maul (Co-host)]

That's dope.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

He was like, yo, you dope, man. And that'd be an honor. And I'm like, word, man. And then we just started working on it. But it was crazy because I had it finished in 2014, bro, and ain't know what to do with it.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Wow.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

So I just held onto it for four years.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Okay.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

That's the beauty about making timeless music and not following trends.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

If I was trying to chase radio records and club records, it wouldn't have worked.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Sound would be different in four years.

[Maul (Co-host)]

It wouldn't have worked. You had to scrap all of that shit. Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I was able to hold onto the project for four years till I learned the business and learned the proper way to release it. Cause, you know, I was just spending my money, just moving off passion and shit. And I'm like, hold on. I got something here. I'm gonna just throw this out. I'm like, let me learn some shit. Plus, the climate of music was different in 2014. Yeah.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Oh, 1,000%.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Think about that. I'm like, this ain't. I don't.

[Maul (Co-host)]

That wouldn't have worked. Nobody wanted to hear g rock of 2014 appreciate that.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Like, 2014 climate of music was different.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

So I'm like, hold on. Let me hold on to this. And I held onto it for four years. And right around the time when the climate was changing, people were starting to care about lyrics and shit.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah, it was, you know, the start of the new underground.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

It was the start of the new underground. Plus, on the mainstream you had shit like, you know, Pusha T and Drake, which, you know, or you know, all of those battles, all of those battles from the bigger artists, help with lyricism, put focus on. Okay.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Everybody started paying attention to bars, hear

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

people rap, which was beautiful. And you know that shit trickled down to like, oh, it's some niggas that know how to rap though. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know what I'm saying?

[Rory (Co-host)]

Absolutely.

[Maul (Co-host)]

And I mean, it's dope that you did that with G Rap. Because he's somebody that I don't think gets talked about enough when it comes to rap.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I don't either, man. But I think that if you cut from a certain cloth or that multi syllable rhyme scheme, I think you know what G rap mean.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Oh, yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Like us as rappers and shit. It's like, we know.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, the rappers know.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

And that's the thing about it. That's why I call myself the Son of G Rap. Because I felt like the rappers know how nice I am before the rest of them. They knew, you know what I'm saying? They knew how we all know how hard it is to come up with this shit as writers. If it's your sport, you know how to measure it.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

So that's why, you know, that whole G rap shit, I felt like G was something different.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I mean, it's New York City, so it's tough. But I think you would make an argument that G rap would be on the Mount Rushmore.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

This is my thing.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Like, if you look at all the kids of G rap.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Thank you. So when we look at. That's what I mean by Son of G rap.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, right.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

And I'm pretty sure a lot of people would agree. You'll see in a documentary, you see, AZ was like, yo, I thought I was a son of G rap.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Because NASA said the same thing.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

So, you know, HOV said hearing me rhyme is like hearing G rapping his prime.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Right.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Exactly. You understand?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, the rappers know, so the rappers know.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

So like, you know, that's shout out to G. You know what I mean? G don't get enough credit.

[Rory (Co-host)]

He don't.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You heard me? Yeah. He don't like, you know, I'm a son of G rap.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

So that's why I'm Nice.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know what I'm saying?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, yeah, I get it.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

The same niggas that all our favorite rappers. You gotta realize, like, I studied the same ones that all the greats studied.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, right.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I went to the root.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know what I'm saying?

[Maul (Co-host)]

The originator.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. So you gotta realize, like, my respect for legends is up here. I came in this shit with the Sonny G rap.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Right.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

So you gotta realize I came in this shit with a high expectation of rapping with the best and doing my best. That's what I do. You know what I'm saying?

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah. I mean, lists are lists. Like, they don't really validate anything. But cool G rap at number 30 on the complex top 50 shit was a little like. That was one of the more offensive things I felt like.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah, I completely agree. That's why I don't pay attention to those shits at all.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Because it's fun to argue about. But, I mean, it doesn't really mean that's crazy.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Like, G Rap. Yeah.

[Maul (Co-host)]

There's not 29 rappers from New York City better than G Rock.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

No, that's insane, bro.

[Maul (Co-host)]

It's just not. But we know why they do these lists. It gets people talking, the engagement, you know, so we understand they have to make it controversial. But anyway. But, like, you know, guys that really know rap and listen to rap, they look at that and laugh like, come

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

on, cut it out.

[Maul (Co-host)]

It's not 29 guys from New York that rap better than G Rap.

[Rory (Co-host)]

That's just probably a lack of information of the people that put it together. Like, they had pop smoke at 27. I'm not here to shit on pop smoke whatsoever. Because I think he was gonna be the next generation and sound for New York. But that's why he deserves to be on this list because there is influence there. But having cool G Rap two slots behind him when you had 20 years of his influence is crazy.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Like, it's just.

[Maul (Co-host)]

It's just out of order.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Because if we're going off influence and what they did for the city as far as sound, no, Coogee rap should not be a fucking 30. No reasonable doubt doesn't sound the way it does without Coogee rap.

[Maul (Co-host)]

It's just so many rappers we don't get without Coog.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Thank you.

[Maul (Co-host)]

You know what I mean? So that alone, you have to have a certain, certain order. It's a pecking order that we have to always maintain. But again, we get why they do

[Rory (Co-host)]

Raekwon Ghost They've all said Cuban links. That mafioso that's got it from G Rap.

[Maul (Co-host)]

All of that is G Rap, bro.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Agree.

[Rory (Co-host)]

So. So I. I can understand that people that put this list together may not be aware of that. So they put them there, but it's just like, all right, this is why list can't really validate right? At all.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Who. Who inspired outside of G Rap? Who inspired you to your rap, your rhymes, and who inspired you on the production side?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yo, believe it or not, man, I pulled from different rappers for certain things and shit. So I went through certain different phases at different ages. So when I first started getting an understanding of music, I probably was around, like, 12, 13. When I got introduced to proper lyrics was around the time, like, it was written.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Okay?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

So Nas started off as, like, my favorite rapper. By the time I started getting into the streets and having to support myself, I started. Jay Z started to become my favorite rapper.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Okay?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Now, I used to go back and forth with Jay Z and dmx because DMX was so passionate, and I felt the energy. I love the energy, but I love the energy and the authenticity that X gave me, and I love the motivation that Jay gave me. So, like, you know, and then you got a lot of motherfuckers that like the puns.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know what I mean? The lyrical monsters, the G raps, you know what I'm saying? I take pages from all of they books, you know, but then you got motherfuckers like Tupac who knew how to capture emotion. It wasn't really all based about lyrics. It's about how it made you feel. And, you know, he was my favorite for that. So each one of these guys, then, you know, then I had to throw young Jeezy in there. Thug motivation. One on one.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Classic.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I was outside as a young guy, and it had an impact on my life. That's when music started changing to me. It started not just being about lyrics. It started being about how did it make me feel? What's the energy to this? How do I identify with this? You heard? Then it made me start looking at rappers different. Like, I really don't identify with that. Yeah, he could rap, but it don't help me throughout my day.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It don't live with me.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

It don't live with me.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

So, you know, like, that was so. I have to credit Jeezy for that. When he brought that energy of the trapper dying, the thug motivation, because it spoke to me and lifestyle, you understand? So I can't discredit that. So I pull. So all of these guys have influenced me in their own ways, you know what I'm saying? Facts and on the production side, you know, man, Primo Pete Rock, you know what I'm saying? That was like the start for me, you know what I mean? Prem and Pete Dre, you know? Cause the Chronic album, I remember being a young boy listening to that. And I remember how that affected everybody around me and shit. And me going back listening to the sonics of it is like, oh, shit.

[Maul (Co-host)]

I definitely hear some havoc in your production too.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Havoc is like. I was gonna say havoc. Yeah. So like Mobb Deep have got a lot of influence on Upstate, period. Like, I remember when them shits dropped, like, you know, my older brothers and them going how that affected them. And then by the time I was getting an understanding of everything. Cause mind you, when you young, certain shit don't catch you. Yeah, that's why you skip past Illmatic and go to. It was written.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I was nine when Illmatic came out. Let's put that in its proper perspective. Some people gonna say Illmatic, but a nine year old, when Illmatic came out, it don't attach. It ain't attaching the way, you know. So a couple years later, I'm more understand. Got more of an understanding.

[Maul (Co-host)]

You get it now?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I kind of get it now. So that's why when it come to Mobb Deep, my favorite album is Murder music.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Okay.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Because I was a certain age when murder music hit. You feel what I'm saying? Even though, you know, the other albums was my older brother's shit.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, that's they shit.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

That's they shit.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know what I'm saying? That was that time. But the music, so the Mob, period.

[Rory (Co-host)]

G Rap too, on Murder music, that's

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

really all comes back. You want to know something? Around that time was my introduction. See, I didn't grow up listening to G Rap. Let's get this understood.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Oh, I probably. The Realness was probably my first introduction to G Rap.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I was in a trap with the older homies and I'm like, yo, who was that? And they said, that's cool, G Rap. I'm like, who? I'm like rapping like that.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

They was like, you don't know? Then I went back and did my research and was like, oh, this guy's crazy. And that was around the time 1998, I say when Roots of Evil came out, that was like, okay. I'm like, dang, this guy is like amazing. And then I started doing my research and seeing. Like, oh, okay, like dang, he rapped like that or he rapped like this. Okay. Like you know what I'm saying? But yeah, that's how that shit was.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, I could definitely hear havoc though, like in a lot of like specialist production and shit like that.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Definitely. No worry.

[Rory (Co-host)]

And now, Mo, I was trying to explain to everyone at Roots Picnic that you do not have to overpay for great wireless. I had service the whole time.

[Maul (Co-host)]

You were telling everybody, everybody.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I said, oh, you, oh, your phone not working. That's because you don't have boost mobile $25 a month forever unlimited plan. It's a permanent price with no contracts or price hikes. You keep your phone and your number, but you save up to $600 a year compared to the other major carriers. Stop overpaying and switch to a fair price@boost mobile.com based on average annual single

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line payment of AT&T Verizon and T Mobile customers compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan as of January 2026. For full offer details, visit boostmobile.com OnDeck

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[Rory (Co-host)]

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[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

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[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

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[Rory (Co-host)]

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[Rory (Co-host)]

This episode is sponsored by Better Help. Summer is about to be here, and for some, it's their favorite season. But sometimes it can be overwhelming. For a lot of people, they have to juggle things with their kids not being in school. People want to go on trips. It can be a lot. So this summer, please take care of yourself. And the best way to do that is talking with a therapist and figuring out how to your needs for the summer while you juggle everything that happens when that season comes. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US with over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 6 million people globally. And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 stars for a live session based off 1.7 million client reviews. Create a version of summer that actually feels good. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer. Find support and therapy. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] Rorymal that's better. H E L P.com Rorymal Would you say Jadakiss was an influence?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Of course.

[Rory (Co-host)]

And I'm just being an.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

No, no, no, no. What? I don't think any rapper that has bars that love bars.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah, I mean, will have to.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Have to be influenced by kids.

[Maul (Co-host)]

There's no way.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

He's one of the most slick, one of the slick talkers, you know, definitely. He want to. Hell, yeah. Like coming from my cloth, you gotta be influenced by that.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, we saw the. You know, you're going viral now with our guy. Shout out to Bagfield. Yeah, Shout out to Bagfield. So you had a statement that you made about Kiss not working with you or sending you a verse after. Was it Driver's Seat?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Sunday School?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Sunday School, Sunday School, Benny's album. So y' all had Driver's Seat together and y' all had Sunday School together After Sunday School, you said you had. Did you reach out to Kiss and it was just no reaching back? Was it just.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Nah, we talk all the time.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Okay. So there's a relationship there.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Okay. All right. Cause when I saw the clip, I was like, maybe there's not the relationship there that you think is there.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Well, let me tell you something, right? I never been the type to come and ask nobody for nothing.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Same. So I get it.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

That's just not my style.

[Maul (Co-host)]

I get it.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

If I come in and shit. I came in and shit, spinning my paper, actually believing in myself.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Right.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know, and through that, I gained relationships through off of work. So I've never asked nobody for nothing. After Sunday school, he told me, I owe you one. Send it over. Coming from me, I'm going to do that. Yeah.

[Maul (Co-host)]

I'm going to send it over. I say no more.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

All right, listen. I come.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Jadakiss. Don't tell me I have a free mercy.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

No, listen. And I understand. See, I. I don't know this world.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

This a different world.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's different.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I come from a world where, you know, it's not like this. So maybe that meant, like, send a record and I'll get back to you in six or seven years. Yeah, I didn't know that.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't know that. I didn't know this. That that could mean that. So, like, you know, that's all that was, you know, like. And it's like, all right. He like, I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna get you the verse. All right, cool. Ah, fuck it. I'm gonna put that out. Yeah, send another one.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Oh, yeah. Cause Sunday. Yo, Sunday.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Hold on.

[Rory (Co-host)]

2019.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Hold on, hold on. Probably eight, 10 projects came out through that. You don't think I reached out for that favor? Each one.

[Rory (Co-host)]

And you set specific records or just saying, hey, I'm working.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I. It's records.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Oh, okay.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Don't let me send a text thread. Yeah, we going to do that. We ain't gonna do that, my nigga. But, you know.

[Rory (Co-host)]

No, you have a right to feel away. I kind of say.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

If you say, hey, listen, this is about it. This right. I never asked nobody for nothing. You talking to a self made person.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

That never asked nobody for nothing. If you tell me you gonna do something.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah, do it.

[Maul (Co-host)]

I'm gonna do my part. Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I don't need to be told that. Right.

[Maul (Co-host)]

I'm cool either way.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Where I'm at. We don't gotta do that when we come cross paths.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know what I mean?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

If I'm gonna get you the verse, I'm gonna get you the verse. And if I can't, I can't.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, see, now that makes it. This makes all the difference now. That you saying you've sent. You've been sending it, and you've reached out since Sunday school, which was 2019.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

If I send somebody ducking me, you gotta give them a chance to duck you.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Can't just say that.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah. But I think when you said ducking me, I think people.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I know what that mean. We talking to each other. It's like, bro, come on, bro.

[Maul (Co-host)]

I think that's what. That's what the Internet was like. The Internet.

[Rory (Co-host)]

He doesn't want to rap with you because he's scared to rap. And then him even commented, which I.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

That's.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I know. Kiss. I know he was joking. We said he must have taken mushrooms.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

The og.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

But I'm on the court.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

And I put up 80 points last game.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

If we playing or we not.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Because you said we was playing.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Rory (Co-host)]

You did say we need to rearrange the top five, though.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Okay, now I got no. All right. Who was your favorite basketball player when you first started watching the game?

[Rory (Co-host)]

When I first started, like, really watching basketball, Iverson was my favorite player.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Okay. Yeah. Right? Right. Now, who's your favorite player?

[Rory (Co-host)]

Jalen Brunson.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Jalen Brunson.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I love that answer. Okay. At some point in time, right. Ain't you gonna have to rearrange your top five?

[Rory (Co-host)]

Oh, that's a fact.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Oh, yeah. Hell, yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Okay, let me ask y' all something, right?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Hell, yeah.

[Rory (Co-host)]

And there's a difference between the top five and your favorite player.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah. Okay.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Big difference.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Big difference. But, you know, at some point in time, you got new niggas that come.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Absolutely.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

How did Iverson make it in your top five when it was a nigga like Jordan around?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Right.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

How is that possible? That's because he was nice.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah. He was in the finals with Shaq and Kobe.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

No real shit. Because he was nice.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

It is what it is. If we peers and we having this conversation, that's because I'm nice. That's because I'm qualified to.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

And it hurt me.

[Maul (Co-host)]

The main point is you told me to say.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You said it ain't even about. That's what it is. That's how we got it.

[Maul (Co-host)]

That's the root of it.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah. You told me so. You know, it was like, that's how that was.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know, and this. Me being honest, like, you know, like, that's all that was. Our first encounter was like, dang special. You killed that record. Oh, man. We gotta do another one. Send me something. Can't talk to me like that. Cause I might just go back and send it to you.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Maul (Co-host)]

I just might do what you said.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I just might do that and expect you to send it back.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Mind you, you gotta realize you not the only rapper that we all rap. Right? We all nice.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I'm sending records to everybody that's nice. We got. I'm around a lot of nice niggas.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

And, you know, I understand it take time to get a verse back, but it's been seven years. What the fuck? So I got the right to say you ducking me. I don't care what the Internet say. Y' all could be. This is sport. I'm outside. Yeah, I'm outside. So, like, you know, I'm sorry, man. I know we all love Kiss. I love, you know, all the legends and shit. But I'm here to tell y' all something. You know, my name's Spesh. For those of y' all that don't know. I put a lot of work in and shit. I got the right to speak the way that I do. And I'm gonna show and prove y' all keep paying attention. And, you know, if y' all feel some kind of way, beg any of y' all favorite rappers to come sit next to me and throw a beat on. And I show and prove any of your favorite rappers come sit next to me, throw a beat on, and we'll see what happens, you know? And that's how I feel. Like, honestly, in my heart. Because my shit come from a different place.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Now, on the Sunday School joint. Cause you said you felt like you had the better versions, how you feel? And I listened to Sunday School on the way in. And I get why you feel that way, because your verse was crazy on Sunday School. Now, as a Kiss fan, that's not one of my favorite Kiss verses, but I do feel like you probably had the best.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Can I tell you how the song happened? Now, we could give. So maybe people would think, like, okay, maybe you heard Kiss and say, yeah, I'm about to kill this shit.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Oh, like, you heard his verse first and then you laid yours.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know, that ain't how it happened. Okay, let me explain y' all to y'. All. Something to y'.

[Rory (Co-host)]

All.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I was in the studio recording an album, And I laid 10 songs that day. I was on some kind of high. I just was on a recording high. And my man Benny was working on his album, finishing up his album, and he sent me a joint. I just finished recording 10 songs. Benny sent me a beat. I'm like, damn, I gotta kill this because Benny about to drop this album and it's about to be a big album. When he sent it, I didn't like the beat. How about that? I'm like, I don't like this beat.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Really?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah. I don't like the beat. It's not my kind of beat.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I'd have to hear it without y' all verses on it.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Listen, I heard it. I'm like.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Cause I love it.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Listen. All right, I didn't. Okay, so I'm like. And then he rapped for three minutes.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah, Benny's first verse.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I said, damn, he rapped for three minutes. I only got 16 bars.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I'm like, what the fuck? I'm like, why he send me this record? He rapped for three minutes.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I'm supposed to do a 16. I gotta kill this shit. I only got 16 bars, right?

[Maul (Co-host)]

So everything has to be intentional.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I don't got no time to waste, bruh. Rap for three minutes. I got 16 bars.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Literally, when my verse come in, it's at the three minute mark, right? I'm like, fuck it. Let me go. Sitting here crafting my bars. Shout out to my homie, Street Jets. I just laid 10 records this night, though, okay? Bullet for every heathen. That album was laid that same night. Sunday School verse was laid, okay? So try this. Shout out to Big Ghost. He sent me 10 beats and said, yo, bro, we can make some money. You do this. I'm like, word, I' ma lay these tonight, nigga. I went in the zone. There's money at the end of this session, right? I'm laying 10 records. After the 10 records done, Sunday School comes in. Fuck, I gotta lay this. Damn. It's 4:00 in the morning, nigga. Spin bars. I get to halfway of the verse, I tell my man, like, bro, I wrote this shit. I think I could go harder. My man said, let me hear it. I was just at the part where I got a lamb and a stick like I'm fresh out the Bible. I didn't have it finished.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Hold up. That was crazy.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I spit that to my man. I spit that to my man. And he said, what you about to throw, nigga? Keep going. Shout out the street. Just because I was about to throw that verse away, I would have went harder. I said, nah, this ain't hard enough, right? Because I got 16 bars. My man said, no, keep that. That's crazy. Keep going. Went back in the corner, finished the verse, laid it, sent it to Ben. Ben said, yo, you smoked That. I sent that to Kiss, too. I said, kiss gonna be on that record?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yes.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I said. I said, what?

[Maul (Co-host)]

And you wanted to go harder?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I said, kiss gonna be on there. So I said, man, this is crazy. I said, now Kiss ain't know what he was getting into either. Yeah, my verse already laid. I found out Kiss verse is coming.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

So I'm like, damn. I wonder what Kiss gonna say. You know what? It don't matter if they go get Jesus Christ on there. Nobody's gonna be able to top that verse.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Right?

[Rory (Co-host)]

Lay him in the stick.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I said, yo, real shit. I'm like, nigga, I'm going retarded. I can't wait to hear it. Then I heard it when the song. I got the song back before it came out.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I said, I don't think this coming out.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Nah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Mic drop. I said, I don't think this shit gonna come out because. Nah.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Why you ain't think that was coming out special? Why? Why? You don't think Kiss went hard enough?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I'm not saying I don't think he went hard enough. I think he did his thing. I think that I just was in a bag that was so noticeable that it was gonna be like, who the fuck is this?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Okay.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know what I mean? And if everybody had a chance to rewrite their verses, they would. If we were in the studio together, everybody would see it's a difference. See, y' all not rappers, right? Y' all don't know what it's like to go and sit down with a monster and be on the spot right then and there. See, this is how I judge talent, right? Let's do this like this. See, from the outside looking in, we could all be like, oh, he's nice. He nice. How long it took you to come up with that? My brother put the beat on right now. Let's go in the corner for an hour and let's see who delivers.

[Maul (Co-host)]

That's a different type of.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Whoa, whoa. See, when me and Benny cook, it ain't that we put the beat on and go in the corner and come back.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Right? Right.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You heard we in the same room. You heard? Like, this is monster shit. See, if I give you a song and you got two weeks to work on it, you better have a great verse.

[Maul (Co-host)]

You better have better have a song. Hold on.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Hold.

[Rory (Co-host)]

That's why studio sessions are parties now.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

We gonna measure this. His talent for who delivered. Right here on the spot, though. Yeah, this how I know who. Nice.

[Maul (Co-host)]

That's different.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

So. So we could do all of this. If. If I. If. If you can't come right now and you throw the beat on and we both go in our corner and come back and see what is going on. This is how we see who. Nice. See, the fans don't know how this shit get. How, how, how we get there. Yeah, you don't know. It might took this nigga three years to write that verse.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Get out of here.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I know all real shit. Yeah, a fan don't know that.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

See, the rappers we know. I'm in the studio with the monsters we know who, Who. Yeah, they know. Put the beat on, give us a certain amount of time, and let's see who come back with that shit.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Not. Let's take it home and come back tomorrow. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Kiss is one of the few rappers ever that I don't think has a whack verse ever. But. But I hear you. It's definitely not.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I never said kids had a wagon.

[Rory (Co-host)]

No, no, no, no.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

And that's what the Internet stop with that. You know, they gotta stop with that catch that influenced everybody.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, that's a fact.

[Rory (Co-host)]

If I did get that in my email, I probably would be like, yeah, Kiss may redo this or it's not coming out. I would have had the same thought you would have had. Cause I do think in the same circumstance that people are not emailing shit and Kiss is in the studio and Benny goes in the booth and does that. And then you go in the booth. Kiss is not delivering the verse that he delivered on that third verse. He's rewriting everything. And it's my favorite Benny verse on that album. But when I saw it live, it put your verse in a different perspective of hearing the entire fucking crowd rap that entire shit.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You see that shit?

[Rory (Co-host)]

That shit was crazy.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

It's electrifying. It shakes the building.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

And it's just bars, like, you know what I'm saying? It's just buyers and shit, you know?

[Maul (Co-host)]

But I think that. But when I knew. When I knew you was just like, I started to really pay attention to you. Was 38 missiles, though,

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

with you and

[Maul (Co-host)]

Benny, that's when I really started to, like. That's when your name to me was like 38 special. Like, who is this nigga?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Right?

[Maul (Co-host)]

That verse on 38 missiles. Yeah, yeah, that's one of the. That's. That's when I started really paying attention

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

this in the Sunday school argument, because there's a lot of people going back, new fans going back to listen to it. I Just want to end this argument. This is how we end the argument right here. It's not my song. Right. It's not on my album.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Right, Right.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

What's the name of the song?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Sunday School.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Where did that come from?

[Rory (Co-host)]

Church.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

No. Who said Sunday School in a verse?

[Maul (Co-host)]

You did.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah, the song was named after my verse.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, I get it. No, listen, now that you're saying everything.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Hold on. Think about that, though. What's the name of the song?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah. Sunday School. You're right.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

It's not my song. It's not on my album. Right. Who says Sunday School in their verse?

[Maul (Co-host)]

That's a fact.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I think that ends the argument if the song is named after my verse.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Right?

[Rory (Co-host)]

No, I have no rebuttal. I got nothing. That's a fact.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

It's not.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Okay, middle of the song.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah, it's not my song. I'm in the middle with a song. I don't start it. I don't end it.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Right.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

It's not on my album.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Benny rapping about his real life on that first version.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

And he's going crazy.

[Rory (Co-host)]

He went nuts.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

He's going retarded. Yeah, but it's still named after my verse.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I respect it.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, yeah, I get it.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

So that in all the arguments right there, it would have been named something else.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You heard? Thousand things to pick for, but that's a fact. They don't really want to go there. You heard.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yo, Kiss gotta send that verse, man.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah, man, Kiss gonna send it.

[Maul (Co-host)]

He gotta send.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I ain't gonna lie. We spoke. He said, man, Cineverse, stop doing these interviews. This is the last interview, okay? It's the last interview.

[Maul (Co-host)]

That's my nigga.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I fuck with Kiss.

[Maul (Co-host)]

That's my guy.

[Rory (Co-host)]

So 12 shots. Mental health. You have a bar. I can't tell my bitch when I'm sad.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Cause when she get mad, she repeat that shit. Ain't that shit relatable, though?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Hell, yeah.

[Rory (Co-host)]

That shit made my chest cave in.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Ain't that perfect for the Mental Health song? Because that stopped you from being able to really express yourself.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know what I'm saying?

[Maul (Co-host)]

You don't wanna be vulnerable.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Facts.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Like, you know, that shit is something that's really being dealt with. You know what I mean?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Every man has dealt with that. And that's a big part of why men aren't vulnerable in their relationships. Why don't they don't communicate, you know, their emotions and feelings and thoughts? Because I feel like one day you might weaponize me being vulnerable against me in a. In A heated moment of us, you know, arguing or whatever we doing. So, yeah, I'm not gonna give you that to put in your clip for later on. Like, I'm not doing that.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah. The worst is after that. Then they ask you, why are you so quiet? Why you not opening up? You told me I'm end up just like my dad. I should have never told you about that.

[Maul (Co-host)]

That was between us. That was between us.

[Rory (Co-host)]

We was mad. You said, you're gonna end up just like your knew that was gonna hurt me.

[Maul (Co-host)]

That was. That was the secret between.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I was like, why would you say that?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah.

[Rory (Co-host)]

But no, I think, you know, not the mental health has gotten, like, trendy or whatever, but I felt like y' all actually nailed it on the head of people that do deal with that shit. And even Shane Noir's verse of like, talking about, I didn't even know mental health was a fucking thing.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Right, right.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Like halfway through the verse, like, I didn't even know that. I didn't even know you were allowed to. To feel that way.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Like, shout out to Shayna. Yeah, word up.

[Rory (Co-host)]

That verse was crazy. But I feel like that's not really a record that that has been duplicated in your catalog at all. You've definitely went across certain subjects that are repeated, but.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Right.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I've never heard you on that type of time before.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Definitely now that was the first time me touching on that. You know what I'm saying?

[Rory (Co-host)]

What made you want to do it?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Whatever the beat tell me to do. You know what I'm saying? The beat would be like, you know, say this. It's some spiritual shit. The beat talks to me. I go in the corner, man, and I just zone out. And what comes, comes. I don't know. I don't lead a studio. I don't go to the studio knowing what I'm gonna leave with. It's just magic and shit, but the music is the foundation. And that shit pulls out certain emotion. And you actually find out what you're talking about mid verse. Like, oh, shit. This about mental health. It's not really premeditated. That's why I be like, that shit is spiritual. Because I really have to cut off everything outside, go into a corner, isolate myself, and come up with this shit. Know what I mean? Fact.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Cold War is one of my favorites too. Shout out to bus Typically, when we have guests on here, we try to ask them what's their favorite Busta Rhyme story? Cause everybody has a favorite Busta Rhyme story. That always ends up being the funniest shit in the world. Bus is one of the craziest people I've ever met. Love him to death. But everyone has a Bus story.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah, Bus. That nigga, man. Like, you know, I ain't got no crazy Bus stories yet and shit, man. But I could tell you one thing. When he sent that verse back, my niggas was in the studio like, Bus might have got you. I was like, what the fuck? I'm like, damn, man. Hey.

[Maul (Co-host)]

But it's different when the legend gets you, though.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

It's beautiful.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, it's like.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

No, it's beautiful. It's like, oh. Oh. He ain't come to play, right? You know, I'm like, okay. That's fire, you know? Shout out to Bus.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah. He went nuts. I was telling you, Off My Great Wall is probably my favorite record on eight Shots, Curtis Koch. I was not familiar. He's nice.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Shout out to Curtis Koch, man.

[Rory (Co-host)]

It's been a while that I've listened to a tape and went, who the fuck is that rapping? Curtis Koch went nuts on that verse.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Curtis Koch smoked that shit. And y' all beware of Curtis Coke. This is a name that y' all gonna hear, and he's extremely talented. He's from where I'm from, and he's talking about real shit that he experienced, and that's coming from me. So I, you know, expect a lot of music from him. Great music. No warrior.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Now, today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock bet. Mo, you know that's Florida sports. Yeah. Everyone knows that.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Rory (Co-host)]

The final.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Know what time it is.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Are here.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yes, sir.

[Rory (Co-host)]

The pressure. The pressure. I feel like the pressure's on me. As a fan, as a New Yorker, I don't. It's not even on. Brunson. Yeah, it's me. I have to show it for my guys.

[Maul (Co-host)]

You carry the weight of the city. Every.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Every possession can define a legacy.

[Maul (Co-host)]

That's a fact.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I'm. I am nervous, but I'm still betting on my guys. No matter what. I do think New York will end this drought that we have been going through forever. 53 years, and we may start. We may start a dynasty run. Who knows?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Oh, you see multiple. You see multiple.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I think what the spurs did before is what we about to do. It's just ironic that the spurs came up here now.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Gotcha.

[Rory (Co-host)]

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[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

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[Rory (Co-host)]

This Father's Day put the focus on

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Dad's happy Place, his garage shop, more ways to organize, more ways to build

[Rory (Co-host)]

and more ways to spend time together with low prices guaranteed at the Home Depot.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

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[Rory (Co-host)]

Make Father's Day about building something together

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

with a little help from the Home Depot.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Exclusions apply to homedepot.com Pricematch for details.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Migraine makes me miss out on the moments that matter, so I asked my doctor about saying yep to Vipti eptinezumab jjmr, an IV infusion given every three months that helps prevent migraine attacks in adults. Don't take if allergic to Vipti, get help right away for allergic reactions like rash, swelling of face, lips, tongue or throat, trouble breathing, hives or facial redness. Tell your doctor about increased blood pressure or color changes, pain or numbness in fingers or toes. Common side effects are stuffy nose, scratchy throat and allergic reactions. Tap the ad to see how many migraine free days you might reclaim. And see the full prescribing [e-mail].

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

My name is Jessa. One of the things I love the most about working for UnitedHealthcare is that everybody matters. Every moment matters.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

There's a person behind every problem.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I care because it's what I was put on this earth to do.

[Maul (Co-host)]

I'm Ben and I work at UnitedHealthcare. I am just one piece of a

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

larger puzzle, but every piece matters.

[Maul (Co-host)]

It's more than just work.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

We wanna make the health care system better for everyone.

[Maul (Co-host)]

I care because I want to make a difference. That's what Committed to Care means to me. Is that. Is that something that you are intentional with, like, finding, like, talent from the hometown and giving them a platform?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah, well, you know, definitely, man. You know what I'm saying? I just like talent. It don't really matter where you from.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Okay.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know, I know how it is to be nice and not be discovered for a long time. So I know that shit. So when I come across motherfuckers that I feel as though is nice and shit, you know, that. That it make me want to work with them. I don't really care about the political shit, what position you is. If you nice, you nice. That's how I keep my pen sharp, too. I look for the nicest. That's who I want to work with.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know, facts.

[Rory (Co-host)]

How'd the Method man feature come together?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Well, this is.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I mean, I know y' all have known each other.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah. This is the second time and that we did a record and shit.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Meth got back on his hook. His hook game again, too.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

That's a fact, bro. That's a fact. I was like, man, that's what I'm like, yo, I want. I'm like, man, I want a Method man hook. Cause you know, meth kill hooks. Like, he that nigga. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, damn, man. I need a Method man hook. You know what I'm saying? And he sent that shit right back, man. And shout out to Meth, man. He's another one like that just tapped in because he respected the art, he respected what I was doing and shit. No political shit, no nothing. And every time I hit him, he come through. Yeah, word up.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Now, the complex list going back to that, there weren't any upstate guys that was like, you know, like, looking back. Cause we spoke about it. The fact that guys like, you know, Benny and Conway and Gunn and Spesh or not. Rock Marcy. Is Rock Marcy on this list?

[Rory (Co-host)]

Nope. But there's a bunch of people from Long island on that list.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Rock Marcy should be on this list. Like, I just don't. And I get it. Like, we don't really care about the list. But it's just.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You see, that's. That's the political list. Like, that shit is, like, super political and shit. That really ain't got nothing to do with the concrete. And you know, like. You know what I'm saying? So I don't pay attention to none of that shit. At the end of the day, I respect everybody on the list.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know what I'm saying? But damn.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah. It gotta be like, we gotta start just doing more to highlight certain individuals from certain. And not just the five boroughs.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I mean, where I felt it was wrong, which I was telling you. Maul. If they would have kept everybody that was from Long island off it and everyone that was from Westchester off it, I could understand why upstate isn't there. Okay. If you literally kept it within the five boroughs, I get it. But you got, like, six people from Long island, two people from Westchester. Like, it's not just five boroughs, so why stop there?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Right?

[Rory (Co-host)]

Like, you should have all of upstate.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah. That. That. I don't know.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Chuck D is not from the five boroughs.

[Maul (Co-host)]

No

[Rory (Co-host)]

shit. Biz isn't. Bola de La Soul is on. They not from Styles. P is not from the five Bros. So that's where I was like, all right. That's weird that they did it outside of five Bros. And then didn't even have anything.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I'm so used to them not including us.

[Maul (Co-host)]

You don't even look for it.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I don't even look for it. It would be so surprising for them to mention.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

What the hell is going on? You know what I mean?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

It is what it is. That's the beauty about, like. So I love this independent shit, you know? I love the freedom to not have to play the politics.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Right.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Maul (Co-host)]

You know, do what you want to do.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You just do what you want to do.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Work with who you want to work with.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You feel what I'm saying, bro?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah. Outside of getting the Kiss verse, is there any other guys that you looking forward to getting in the studio with?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Shit, man. Only motherfuckers. It had to be out of them listed motherfuckers that I have. First name that had inspired me, like, that's left on my list. It'd probably be Jay and Nas would be, like, the only motherfuckers I would look forward to, you know, high level spitters and. Yeah, J. Nas M. I grew up with that high level of respect for.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know what I'm saying?

[Rory (Co-host)]

Has Green ever played your stuff for him?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

No. Okay. Nah, that's a good question. I mean, Green, why you never play my shoe, huh?

[Rory (Co-host)]

I mean, King Green's defense when they're on tour, I'm sure Eminem is like in his lair somewhere until. Until it's time to get on stage.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

In Green defense, when Green was around em, I still was in development mode. Yeah. I was like a 19 year old kid. Makes her so like, you know, that wasn't. He wasn't. That situation was kind of short lived, you know, the Green and Eminem situation, it wasn't like too long of a. You know what I'm saying?

[Maul (Co-host)]

So.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Nah, the radio and freestyles was way more valuable than em hearing some shit.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Right.

[Rory (Co-host)]

No, I get that.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I get that.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Any producers you want to collab with, not only just to rap over, but make beats with.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I always been a fan of Alchemist as well, you know.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Oh yeah, Hell yeah. Definitely.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know, that'd be.

[Rory (Co-host)]

He replaced Green, I think.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You familiar with this situation, huh?

[Rory (Co-host)]

I'm not even an Eminem fan. I just. I just remember when it happened. I mean.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, looking at the optics, I think that's exactly what happened, right?

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah, I think that's literally exactly what happened.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Damn.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Damn.

[Rory (Co-host)]

We love Al and Green.

[Maul (Co-host)]

No, for sure. 100%.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shout out to both of them.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

But yeah, I always, you know, I would like some shit from Al. You know what I mean? Me and Pete. I've been reaching out to Pete. I got some shit coming for him. I got some shit in the tuck from Preem, you know, like, you know, the usual suspects.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Hell yeah. Yeah.

[Maul (Co-host)]

You're keeping in that same DNA.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Maul (Co-host)]

It's a certain. It's a sound that you've definitely, you know, developed for yourself. And obviously you produce a lot of your own shit. So it's a 38 special sound that I think obviously, you know, you're not gonna ever stray too far away from that.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Nah. And shout out to Havoc too. I got some Havoc shit too.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Okay.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

That's crazy.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Okay. Oh, so you working then?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Always, man. That's all I do, man. I don't got a life outside of this shit. Yeah, of the studio.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Have you built your own studio yet? You got your own top notch?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You heard me. Yeah, like, you know, that's. That's this. You Know, I'm heavy on, like. I'm like a geek with that. You know what I'm saying? So I'm heavy on outboard gear.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know what I mean? And engineering and shit. Shout out to my homie Rome. My homie Rome from my town. He taught me a lot about engineering, mixing, and mastering, and just, you know, running outboard gear. And so I've been doing a lot of that, you know, Got me some. Some. Some consoles. You know, that's dope and things of that nature, you know, upgrading the sound, especially.

[Maul (Co-host)]

I. I see. I figured that I was special after having this conversation. He just don't want to have to ask nobody for you got that? I'm do this. I'm gonna produce this, I'm gonna record this, I'm gonna mix this, all that.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah, I get it. No, for real, I get it.

[Maul (Co-host)]

I totally understand it. I get now. It all makes sense to me. I totally get it now. Yeah.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Peach said we actually had a voicemail that we could get to. So on the show, we have our listeners sometimes leave voicemails, ask questions, bring up topics and stuff. So we're playing one with you here.

[Maul (Co-host)]

What's up? Rory Maul, Baby D. This is JJ from the Bronx. Question, can you guys name songs where the best verse came from? The worst rapper on the song, like, for two examples banned from tv. To me, Nature had the best verse, but no disrespect to him. He was clearly the worst rapper on the song.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Wait, what?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Two chains on Mercy. So I just want to see if y' all got any opinions on that and if y' all can name any songs that come to y' all mind. Appreciate y'.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

All.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Peace.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I like the question, but his examples are fucking nuts.

[Maul (Co-host)]

No, but I get what he's saying. He's saying on the song Nature was

[Rory (Co-host)]

the least popular one on Band from tv.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Well, I think that's what he meant. Like, he's the worst rapper on the song. Like, not worse as far as Skill Set, but it's like, if you. Who's on the song, on. On that. On that song.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Nori. And I love Nori to death. That's. I consider Nori a fry. I just got off the phone with Nori, and, yeah, I will answer to my sins in Miami. But if we talking, like, rapping, I think y' all have Nature far the fucked up. Nori makes way better records than Nature.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Nature had to had very strong, standout verses in a lot of songs.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, he did.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Like, not just that.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, on the Floor.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I could go through a lot of songs from I'm leaving to Furious 4 or Furious 5 with him, kiss Styles on the Clue tape to the band from TV to Nature Got Joints, you know what I mean? Oh, hold on.

[Rory (Co-host)]

What's my shit for all the Seasons album?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Nature put out Love Is Love off AZ album. Like, Nature got stand out dope verses. You know what I'm saying?

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Nori's my gobble. When you said Nori, I forgot. I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna just have Nori as a better rapper.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I mean, Big Pun. Okay, cool.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, we agree there.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Come on. I'm fine there.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

But Nore Al had an impact where I was at, bro.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Sure.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Nor album was something serious, man.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I'm talking about just rapping.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah. Just rap. But we got. We got to include that, though, because that, you know, that impact from Nori was one of. One of the first ones that could say what he want. And it was like, nigga, we like that shit.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah, for sure. But I mean, I do. I guess I understand this point. You got Kiss, Styles, Cam, Big Pun, Nori, all on Ban from tv. Yeah. Nature was the least known.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah.

[Rory (Co-host)]

And who's. Who's on Mercy is what? Kanye, Sean, Chains, and Push. I guess I see that point, but I've always felt, especially when Mercy came out, I don't think y' all know who the titty boy was. And I was at Def Jam at that time.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Rory (Co-host)]

That group. Well, because they were signed there. Like, two Chains was never a slouch. Like, it's not like Chains. Correct.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Like, maybe he need to change the word. And maybe it's not worst rap, but

[Rory (Co-host)]

maybe it's like, most unexpected.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Maybe. Maybe it's not the most popular rapper on the song. Like the most favorite rapper.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I mean, change this still mercy.

[Maul (Co-host)]

No. 100%. 100%. Maybe. Maybe Nicky on Monster.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I mean, at that time. Yeah. She would be. Technically.

[Maul (Co-host)]

You get what I'm saying? Like, maybe Nikki on Monster.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I mean, I think not. Now in 2026, there's four people on that song. There's three legends, and she's one of them.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[Rory (Co-host)]

So, I mean, maybe it would be Ross. That would be who we'd be talking about.

[Maul (Co-host)]

And you especially have anybody you would

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

like to add to that conversation?

[Rory (Co-host)]

There's only. There's only one non legend on that record now.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I don't know, man. I think Eazy E had the best verse on for the Love of Money, man. That was my shit standing on the corner straight slanging rocks for the money. Man, that was my shit. Know what I'm saying? I think Eazy had the best standout verse. We used to sing that shit word for word, man.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah. Damn, now you went back with that one.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Shit.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Rip, easy.

[Rory (Co-host)]

This is gonna be way left field. Prize on Ghetto Superstar with ODB and my. I didn't expect Prize to come the way he came.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Paul, the fact that you.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

I gotta listen to Prize versus again. Yeah.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I don't know. I mean, and shit. Even odb, who is a goat in his own right, the most original fucking rapper ever. He was not the best rapper. And he used to get. Get a lot of Wu Tang lyricists on songs where he would. That wasn't his thing. And like, how you got a better verse than Jizz on this. I feel like it's like ODB might be the king of that. Of how are you the least lyrical person on this song and by far the standout.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rory (Co-host)]

ODB is probably the king of that.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Shoot.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Juicy J on who? Katy Perry's.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

What.

[Rory (Co-host)]

He's bringing shit up now at this point. J. Cole star is born.

[Maul (Co-host)]

You think he had a better version? Ho.

[Rory (Co-host)]

I mean, they did a completely different subject. Jay tells a whole story of hip hop, but. But, I mean, Cole's verse was. That was the introduction. I mean, we had all know. Knew who Cole was from his mixtapes. Yeah, but this was when the masses found out who the Cole was.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, he definitely got off on that, though. I don't know if he had a better verse than Jada.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Cole did that with Cole did that with no disrespect to two people I love to Royce and Benny. I felt like Cole did that to them. And I would typically think Royce would have the better verse than Cole. And I think Cole knew who he was rapping with. Yeah, but Royce. I mean, I know Royce just want to make a good song. Was like, thank God that Cole came and smoked, did what he did.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah. Damn. See that question I got. You got to give me that question a day. And I gotta.

[Rory (Co-host)]

Yeah, that's one that we might, like, have to revisit.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah. On the spot. That's tough. But that, for the love of money, that easy E1 that definitely, like, Easy E got off on that. Whether or not he wrote it right is a whole different thing. But he got off Bleak on Coming of age. Did Bleak write it, though? Who cares? Well, I mean. Yeah, we don't care.

[Rory (Co-host)]

He was 16. Yeah.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Nah, he got off on that. Who, Remy Ma? Remy Ma, lean back. She got off on that. Rem got off on that.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Yeah.

[Maul (Co-host)]

I wish I would have gave me a day to like. Yeah, we'll go through it.

[Rory (Co-host)]

We'll revisit it this week. We can.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Special, besides eight shots, what can we expect from you for the rest of the year, man?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Dropping another solo and a few produced albums, and I'm gonna be announcing soon and. But expect another solo from me before the year out, you know, full album, 1012 joints, you know what I'm saying? A lot of good producers, a lot of good features on there. Think about round September, okay? Know what I'm saying? And, you know, expect some good freestyles, man.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Okay?

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

You know what I mean?

[Maul (Co-host)]

And hopefully we can expect that Kiss verse before the year's out.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Before the year out?

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah. I mean, come on. Kiss don't make our guy wait another seven years for a verse, man. And it gotta be crazy now.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Oh, it gotta be crazy.

[Maul (Co-host)]

It gotta be. I mean, it's Kiss, so more than

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

likely, you know, he gonna do it.

[Maul (Co-host)]

Yeah, he gonna do his thing. But we looking forward to that special. We appreciate you for coming through, man. It's a pleasure to finally have you in the studio with us. Whenever you wanna come back, talk some shit kicking with us. Whenever you in the city, door's always open for you, bro. We appreciate you for.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Appreciate y' all having me, bro.

[Maul (Co-host)]

That's 38 special. I'm that nigga. He's just ginger. Eight shots available. Now go get that trust.

[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

No worry about.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

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[38 Special (Rapper/Producer)]

Now streaming on Paramount, the acclaimed series from executive producer Lena Waithe. Reaches its final chapter. The Shy for seven seasons, these stories, these streets, this community have stayed with us. Now it all leads to this. As friendships are tested, families evolve, and secrets refuse to stay buried, one thing is certain. The Shy is more than just a series. It's a legacy. Don't miss the final season of the Shy, now streaming on the Paramount Premium Plan.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

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