Episode 503 | I Know It Was You, Fredo + BINK

Summary

New Rory & MAL Episode 503 | "I Know It Was You, Fredo + BINK"

Date: June 5, 2026
Guests: The legendary producer Bink

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

A lively and wide-ranging episode featuring the usual banter amongst Rory, Mal, Damaris, and Bink. Topics span from humorous NYC tales and sports fandom, to in-depth conversations on hip hop history, contemporary rap beefs, artist relationships, and a celebrated interview with producer Bink. The crew blends nostalgia, honest critique, and storytelling, providing both behind-the-scenes insight and heartfelt commentary on the current state of music and their lives.

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SECTION 1: Knicks Playoff Fandom & NYC Energy

Timestamps: 02:30 – 13:00

• Vibes: The crew opens with high spirits, fueled by a New York Knicks playoff win.
  • “Nice day out in New York City. Sunny… Knicks won city, you know. Feels like everybody’s together.” — Mal (02:54)
• Fan Stories:
  • Rory endured a stressful game with friends, lamenting over-ordered food due to his friends’ pharmaceutical habits. (03:11)
  • Mal watched with his uncle, famed Knick & NBA legend Earl “the Pearl” Monroe, exploring generational perspectives on how the game has changed.
    • “It’s always fun watching the game with somebody that played and was like a legend. And the last time the Knicks won, it was him.” — Mal (04:15)
    • Earl’s critique: too many threes, not enough classic play.
  • Damaris shares a fiasco trying to watch at the Lavender Room, ending up at home after her Uber accident (05:54).

Notable Quote:

“I would pay for you and Earl the Pearl to just put on lab mics and watch Game two.” — Rory (05:03)

• Laughs about the surge of NYC unity, Knicks watch parties and fake rivalries with politicians.
• Banter about “Burgers & Bottles” event in NYC, logistics, and the dynamic of going out as a crew (08:43).

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SECTION 2: NYC Culture, Family, and Everyday Life

Timestamps: 09:56 – 16:16

• Damaris shares her plans to show her younger brother New York for the first time (09:57).
  • Debates over bringing guests to BBQs, City Island, and real NYC tourist vs. local food experiences.
  • “You wanna get him a real Henny Colada? Take him to City Island, man.” — Mal (11:09)
• Conversation spins into cash vs. card habits, collecting spare change, and superstitions (14:41).
• Lighthearted look at the cash economy and modern payment friction, especially for services like barbers and laundromats.

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SECTION 3: Rap Drama Breakdown – Cardi B & Latto

Timestamps: 17:05 – 25:32

• Damaris segues into the Cardi B–Latto situation:
  • Context: Cardi called Latto "pussy" in a leaked phone argument, later apologized and offered a Birkin bag, which Latto declined on pride.
  • “Don’t reach back and offer me a bag like I’m your side chick... It gives charity.” — Damaris (18:45)
  • “If you take the bag, you got to forgive.” — Mal (18:34)
• They delve into apology culture and ego, the nuances of public versus private apologies, and lasting impact of friend betrayals in the music world.
  • “You gotta stand on what you did… you gotta eat it. If they're not ready to forgive you, you gotta eat it.” — Damaris (24:17)
• Reflection on friendship boundaries in the industry, maintaining real personal relationships versus expectancy from apologies.

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SECTION 4: "My Man, My Man" Rap Albums, Relationships & Breakup Anthems

Timestamps: 28:53 – 34:14

• Damaris reviews Latto’s new album—much of it themed around her relationship.
  • Critiques: lack of “single girl anthems,” too much “my man” content, but acknowledges that real-life status should influence the music (29:24).
• Explores the expectations placed on female rappers to make either “pussy rap” or “I hate men” songs (30:17).
• Parallels with Megan Thee Stallion’s recent “I'm outside” energy post-breakup, referencing how albums reflect actual personal lives.
• Candid, comedic discussion on women’s post-breakup “yacht trips,” Miami culture, and the recurring trope of new experiences post-heartbreak.
  • “Talking about women having their first lesbian experience on a boat in Miami is very specific…” — Damaris (33:04)
• Open convo on sexual agency, the value of sex, ego, and what breakups reveal about personal kinks and needs.

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SECTION 5: Jay-Z, Dame Dash, and Ego in Hip Hop

Timestamps: 37:03 – 53:34

• The team recaps the ongoing reactions to Jay-Z’s Roots Picnic performance and his bars directed at Dame Dash and others.
• They discuss Dame Dash’s latest interviews and his insistence that Jay’s only performing because he’s “broke.”
  • “It’s getting kind of tough to watch, man... It’s just not Dame to me.” — Rory (43:27)
  • “You gotta have a certain amount of ego... Ego can be healthy, but sometimes you realize that’s all you’re standing on.” — Mall (45:05)
• Honest reflection on ego, pride, artistry, and what gets lost when grudges carry on too long.
• The narrative of public beef versus complicated brotherhood and the need for evolving conversations in hip hop.
  • “It’s time for a different narrative… We get it.” — Mall (49:56)

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SECTION 6: Producer BEEF(s), Griselda, and Hip Hop Legacy

Timestamps: 61:03 – 67:13

• Mall provides context on Conway and Benny’s split from Griselda over a denied 10% stake, tracing it to a Jay-Z meeting.
  • “Griselda is not Griselda without the three of them.” — Mall (61:59)
• Discussion of the complications in business among close creative partners, reaffirming the importance of fairness and communication.
• Anticipation and wish-listing for a full Griselda album with both their classic in-house style and big-name producers (66:09).

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SECTION 7: INTERVIEW — BINK (Legendary Producer)

Timestamps: 71:48 – End

BINK’S CAREER & MUSIC PHILOSOPHY

• Bink discusses his storied career from Teddy Riley & Blackstreet to Jay-Z and more (72:41).
• Honest, blunt assessment:
  • “Horrible. I just don’t meet a lotta kids that’s actually trying to innovate… Everybody is content with recycling.” — Bink (73:16)
  • On 2026 music: Innovation is rare; everyone chases the “vibe” instead of shaping sounds.
• He shares thoughts on signature sound, the dilution of exclusivity, and the downside of the overly collaborative, Kumbaya era (79:11).
  • “Your process is your barcode… That’s what makes you who you are.” — Bink (79:21)

PRODUCTION STORIES & HIP-HOP LORE:

• On working with Missy Elliott: She’s a true producer; knows exactly what she wants and drives a vivid creative vision (74:55).
• VA’s unique fusion: The VA scene flourished because it drew influences from everywhere, being a military hub (76:27).
• Old-school secrets: Sampling culture used to be fiercely protective, with sample sources closely guarded (78:32).
• Bink’s “Ruler’s Back” story: Nearly lost the beat due to a corrupted floppy disk—was reconstructed from scratch hours before final mixing (86:08).
  • “I had lost the whole beat… It took me about three hours to find that record… then mix it.” — Bink (86:36)
• Insights on Jay-Z’s classic albums—how “Ruler’s Back,” “All I Need,” and “Mama Loves Me” came to be. Bink details the tough business decisions, generosity (giving former collaborators publishing), and navigating gossip about “beat theft” (94:01).

ON ARTIST-PRODUCER RELATIONSHIPS, INDUSTRY CHANGES

• Bink on the impact of super-producers: Leading the sound for top artists is both blessing and curse, making you a target for imitation (114:37).
• Shouts out modern producers D’Mile, London on da Track, Hit-Boy as people carrying true innovation (116:14).

ON COLLABS, BUSINESS ETHICS, & INTERNET NARRATIVES

• Bink defends his “hater” image, clarifying he’s simply direct and stands on integrity:
  • “If you don’t want to know, don’t ask me… I’m not gonna pussyfoot around for you to feel comfortable.” — Bink (124:04)
• Describes the ease of working with people who do good business and touches on how people often try to move without a budget or fair approach (125:18).
• Reveals he’s looking for a new artist to do a full EP with, open call for ideas.

NOTABLE STORIES & QUOTES:

• “I gave [Baseline Studios] their first check. I was the first person to ever record there.” — Bink (90:09)
• On Jay-Z & Dame: “You can’t make a Rockefeller label like that and not know what you’re doing.” — Bink (112:38)
• On losing 'Ruler’s Back': “I’m not losing this placement. I don’t care what I gotta do.” — Bink (87:13)
• On honesty and misunderstandings: “What people think of you, you don’t give a fuck, man. It’s not my job to correct these ho ass niggas about nothing.” — Bink (124:26)

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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS & MEMORABLE MOMENTS

• Emotional and humorous recollections of legendary sports and music events.
• Honest, sometimes raw, explorations of friendship, ego, apologies, and hip-hop legacy.
• Producer Bink’s wisdom and transparency, offering rare production stories and a call for artistic innovation.

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RECOMMENDED LISTENING

• For a deep dive into the ethos of classic vs. current hip hop, music industry transformation, and the unapologetic reality of keeping it real in entertainment.
• Essential for fans of Jay-Z, Griselda, producer culture, and anyone interested in how relationships, pride, and legacy shape the scene.

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ADDITIONAL TIMESTAMPS (Select Moments)

• 04:15 — Mal on Uncle Earl Monroe and Knicks history
• 18:45 — Damaris on why Latto rejected Cardi’s Birkin apology
• 24:17 — “You gotta eat it.” Damaris on owning your mistake
• 43:27 — Rory expresses discomfort at Dame Dash’s media runs
• 61:03 — Griselda drama: why Conway & Benny left
• 72:41 — Intro to Bink: career retrospective
• 86:36 — The lost “Ruler’s Back” beat story
• 124:04 — Bink on authenticity and “haters”
• 127:37 — Bink: “I never liked that breakdown in Devil in a New Dress. Unseasoned chicken to me.”

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Summary prepared by ChatGPT.

Transcript

[Damaris]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

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[Rory]

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[Bink]

Now that's a total power move.

[Rory]

Make your total power move today. Visit totalwireless.com or stop by your neighborhood Total Wireless store.

[Mall]

Additional terms apply.

[Rory]

See totalwireless.com for details. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium

[Bink]

Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying.

[Rory]

It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you

[Bink]

to Mint Mobile today.

[Rory]

I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail]

[Commercial Voice (Autotrader/Cindy Crawford)]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate, first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full [e-mail] are

[Damaris]

you really buying a car online on autotrader right now?

[Commercial Voice (Autotrader/Cindy Crawford)]

Really? I can get super specific with dealer

[Damaris]

listings and see cars based on my budget. You can really have it delivered or pick it up. I think kid is walking up the slide.

[Commercial Voice (Autotrader/Cindy Crawford)]

Slide?

[Bink]

Really?

[Commercial Voice (Reese Witherspoon/Wells Fargo Ad)]

Auto trader Buy your car online.

[Commercial Voice (Autotrader/Cindy Crawford)]

Really?

[Bink]

No Warrior now. Conductor?

[Rory]

No, No.

[Mall]

Happy happy Friday. Happy, happy Friday. Happy, happy Friday. Happy happy Friday.

[Damaris]

You're in a good mood.

[Mall]

I am in a good mood. I'm in a great mood.

[Damaris]

Next one.

[Mall]

Nope. Got my balls licked last night.

[Rory]

And we're off.

[Mall]

No, I'm joking.

[Rory]

That'll put you in a good mood though.

[Mall]

Nah, man.

[Rory]

You know, like if you feeling down on your luck, you get your balls.

[Mall]

Nice day out in New York City. Sunny.

[Rory]

It is. It's hot.

[Mall]

I mean, Knicks won city, you know Feels like everybody's together. Everybody kind of give each other that silent head nod today.

[Bink]

Yeah.

[Rory]

And if you're listening to this on Friday, we're preparing to win game too as well. And if you listen on Saturday, we up too old.

[Mall]

Yeah, there you go. Type speak to the future Rory.

[Rory]

Listen, man, that was one of the most stressful nights of my life.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I watched with two of my childhood friends because we've all been tortured Knicks fans our entire lives. I ordered a bunch of food. I forgot that they're addicted to prescription pills, so nobody ate except for me. Ordered a bunch of food for no reason. No one eats on pharmaceuticals, so that was dumb. But the three of us stood in front of my 80 inch TV the entire game, like this. Far away from the TV, 100% pacing. It was a stressful night. I can't believe we pulled that shit off.

[Mall]

Great game, great game, great game.

[Rory]

Where did you watch the game?

[Mall]

I watched the game with my uncle Earl. Earl. Pearl Monroe, man. I went to go see him.

[Rory]

Yo, no mall forever. Never knew he was, you know. His uncle was Earl the Pearl.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Smoke, man, I ain't seen Unc in a minute, man. So I've been telling him. I've been, you know, telling my aunt I was going to come by. I seen him for a while and I.

[Rory]

We got to do year 23 of me.

[Mall]

I never do. So I went and watched the game. It's always fun watching the game with, like, somebody that played, but then somebody that played and was like a legend.

[Rory]

I was about to say he didn't just like, play basketball.

[Mall]

Yeah. And then somebody that played, and the last time the Knicks won, it was him. He was a big part of it. Yeah. So it was interesting to watch him, you know, just kind of dissect the game and look at how the game is played now and him being frustrated. He's like, I mean, just threes. That's it. That's all they want to see.

[Rory]

Like,

[Mall]

he can't understand why Wendy just want to come down and shoot threes. Like, he's like, if he just stands right there, you know what I mean? But it was good to sit down and catch up and watch the game with him. And he was happy the Knicks won. And he's hoping the Knicks pull us out so they could take the smoke off of the 73 team back. Like, listen, man, let these new guys get one. So they.

[Rory]

And they would have to bring that team back to, like, raise the banner.

[Mall]

Yeah, for sure.

[Rory]

I don't believe everything should be Content, especially with family. But I would pay for you and Earl the Pearl to just put on lab mics and watch Game two.

[Mall]

You.

[Rory]

And just put a camera in front of y'.

[Bink]

All.

[Mall]

Yeah, man, we was talking. We had a good time, man. It was good. It was. It was fun watching him, you know, just dissect the new game of basketball.

[Rory]

I mean, I'm sure his basketball IQ is still very sharp.

[Mall]

I mean. Yeah, one of the best, man. So shout out to uncle. I might go. I might go back Game two and watch the game with him, too.

[Rory]

So set up your phone, and you can take our lab mics.

[Mall]

Yeah, man.

[Rory]

Take Ryan with you.

[Mall]

Ryan.

[Damaris]

Ryan.

[Mall]

Ryan.

[Rory]

You know who Alan Pearl is?

[Mall]

You don't know?

[Rory]

Lying. Like,

[Mall]

I Googled them last night.

[Rory]

Read his memoir last night. The Disrespect n. Man, he's 23 years old.

[Mall]

Not yet. I would be very surprised if Ryan knew who Earl Monroe was. But.

[Rory]

Yeah, well, no, that's. That. That's good to know that. That he's. He's cheering for us.

[Mall]

Oh, absolutely.

[Rory]

Damaris, where were you at to watch the game?

[Damaris]

So I tried to go to Lavender Room, but it was packed. And then when I was leaving Lavender Room, I went to go somewhere else. I was by myself, too, and my Uber got in a car accident pulling out of the parking spot, and I flew from the back seat to the front seat. So then I just went the home and paid for espn. I said, it's meant for me to be home.

[Rory]

Yeah, Yeah. I got invited to Slate. Remember Slate?

[Mall]

I think somebody was like, invite to Slate.

[Rory]

Some official Knicks tv. I was like, bro, I do not want to stand around a bunch of casual fans that have to listen to, like, Fat Joe records during commercials. Like, I just. I literally know Lean Back, and I love Lean Back, and I love Fat Joe's music. I mean, that is a slight, but I just hate when I'm trying to really watch a game. Being in those environments. Like, I know.

[Mall]

I ain't going to lie. Central park. Look lit the sound stage.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Oh, I didn't know they had anything that looked crazy. They came, they showed a shot of it, and once the news came on after the game, I was like, I had no idea they was watching, but that makes sense.

[Rory]

Well, people watching the Garden, too, right?

[Damaris]

Then they had a huge watch party in the garden. They had people outside the watch party in the. Like, outside. I'm like, hey, these aren't here. Like, they're in San Antonio. Like, why are y'? All.

[Mall]

That's all Right, though.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mall]

The city is here.

[Damaris]

New Yorkers just like being with New Yorkers.

[Mall]

No, only when the Knicks are playing.

[Rory]

Yeah, that's true. So. Yeah, it's only there.

[Mall]

Yeah. Other than that, you know, we don't. We don't do this for the Jets.

[Rory]

Yeah, doing this for the jets would be hilarious.

[Mall]

We don't do this for the jets, only the Knicks.

[Rory]

Do we think Mondami is going to be courtside for game three?

[Bink]

Probably.

[Mall]

I hope not.

[Rory]

Nah, he's a man of the people. He's gonna give his ticket away to like an amputee from the Bronx or something.

[Mall]

I hope. I hope he.

[Rory]

He's not Rudy Giuliani.

[Mall]

He's not. Definitely not.

[Rory]

Yeah. He can't put a Yankee head on.

[Mall]

Instead, don't let Mom Donnie nowhere near the Garden, man.

[Rory]

He was in the Garden last night watching the game.

[Mall]

Was he?

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Oh, listen, man, whatever.

[Rory]

We never went to the finals with Rudy.

[Mall]

Me?

[Damaris]

You hate whatever people like.

[Mall]

No, I don't.

[Rory]

That is true.

[Mall]

Cuz people like dumb shit. You know? People like dumb.

[Rory]

I like free buses.

[Mall]

Are they free? Well, they are free. You can just get on the bus. The bus driver is not going to tell you to pay. Like, they've been free before Mom Donnie came to town, like, so.

[Rory]

Well, either way, we are back. Sponsored by Boost Unlimited Talk. If you are listening to this on audio, we are also on Netflix International. Netflix, homie.

[Mall]

International Mall.

[Rory]

I'm just gonna. I'm gonna call you.

[Damaris]

I'm calling.

[Mall]

Yeah, like, never mind. Y' all hating, but it's all good.

[Rory]

Merch is on sale. Patreon.com forward/new Rory Mall.

[Mall]

Go get that.

[Rory]

I don't really have any plans this weekend, but watching game two. So I have nothing on that. That end. Unless you guys have some interesting plans.

[Damaris]

I'm also. I'm outside.

[Mall]

You outside. You got your drink in your hand. Drinking your two steps.

[Damaris]

It's burgers and bottles weekend.

[Mall]

It's burgers and burgers and bottles.

[Rory]

Wait, in New York?

[Mall]

It's burgers and bottles in New York City.

[Rory]

Why didn't you remind us?

[Mall]

I thought.

[Rory]

Weren't we all going as a family?

[Mall]

Yo, I need a section for the Mob, yo. Yeah, for the Mob.

[Rory]

Yeah. No, no. Me plus 27.

[Mall]

Tell burgers and bottles I need a section for the Mob. Tickets is sold out.

[Damaris]

And it's raining.

[Mall]

And it's raining.

[Damaris]

I don't know if you know what I'm saying. It's in Long Island City.

[Rory]

The amount outside.

[Mall]

Damn, it's raining. This Weekend too.

[Rory]

Well you know I'm a pretty humble person. The amount of free promo we have given burgers about. They better put a red carpet out there for me. They better let me host.

[Damaris]

You have a ticket as my plus one if you really want to come. I don't know about a red carpet but you have a ticket.

[Mall]

Who at the door?

[Damaris]

Who at the door?

[Rory]

Funny as I need to know who

[Mall]

at the New York.

[Damaris]

New York City Police department is at the door.

[Rory]

It's me, it's me plus group.

[Bink]

Group?

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I don't even have a number. It's just a group.

[Mall]

Tell them when they hear it's the mob is outside. Yeah, just be like yo take a

[Rory]

head count as we walking in.

[Mall]

Yeah, it's me and whoever the, you know homie with the Yankee out of he the last one, you know, I just like you the last one.

[Rory]

Raise your hand.

[Mall]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, me and the mob we pulling up lic.

[Damaris]

Yeah. Long Island City. But yeah I have a out my parking spot.

[Rory]

Ready?

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

My, my 23 year old little brother is coming into town New York City for the first time. So I'm taking him to see the city. I'm gonna take him to BBQs and.

[Mall]

BBQ.

[Damaris]

He's 23 and he's from the south

[Mall]

and he's never been take that to

[Rory]

he's from the south. Are you taking him to bbq? Get him a chopped cheese and call it a day.

[Damaris]

Not for food. I'm taking him for like the drink and like to see Times Square.

[Mall]

Let me show him man.

[Rory]

Now he's part of the mob now.

[Mall]

Yeah, let me show him he mob. He don't even know.

[Damaris]

And then we're gonna go to the lower east side and we're gonna bar hop. I'm gonna take him to like last lap and stuff.

[Rory]

Last lab's boarded up.

[Damaris]

No it's not. Stop saying that.

[Mall]

It is what it's not.

[Damaris]

It's open.

[Rory]

Oh okay. Yeah, another reopened it.

[Damaris]

Yeah so I'm gonna just take them around.

[Mall]

Give little bro my number man. I'll get him right. Don't worry about it.

[Damaris]

You don't get me right when I

[Mall]

call you cause you your little bro, she bout to have you in BBQs eating sticky wings and shit. You don't want to do that.

[Rory]

Steroid infested.

[Mall]

That big ass cornbread pound cake they gonna give you like that.

[Rory]

You gotta chew for a whole weekend.

[Mall]

Stale ass fries. Double fried fries. Get outta here.

[Damaris]

I feel like as somebody who has never been to New York City. Even if it's bad, you gotta experience it. Cause what I'm gonna do, take him to Times Square and have him take a picture with Spider Man. Like, no. Like, I'm gonna get you a Henny Colada. Like, we gonna. You're gonna experience New York.

[Mall]

You wanna get him a real Henny Colada? Take him to City island, man.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

Who the fuck is going all the way to City Island?

[Rory]

A lot of people. Every Saturday and Sunday.

[Damaris]

I have shit to do. I'm not going all the way to City Island.

[Mall]

Go to City island, get a good Henny Colada, take him to Seafood City. He might get into a little scrap, maybe get stabbed. Yeah, but that's the experience. They bolted the chairs down to the floor now, so it's not. You can't.

[Damaris]

Oh, you can't pick the chairs up.

[Mall]

They don't say It's a safety hazard.

[Damaris]

I've never been to City island myself.

[Mall]

City Island? I got to take you to City Island.

[Damaris]

You got to take me a lot. We ain't been. I love seafood.

[Bink]

Yes.

[Mall]

Oh, come on. I got to take you to City island, get you some clams, oysters.

[Rory]

You like violence?

[Damaris]

When we going?

[Mall]

Some fried lobsters.

[Damaris]

I'm an Aries. When we going?

[Mall]

Well, this weekend is raining. I don't know if you want to be outside.

[Damaris]

And then the next weekend is what?

[Mall]

Next week is going to be nice. It's going to be. It's going to be decent. Next week.

[Damaris]

And then the weekend after, like, the weekend after that, it's. We can go.

[Mall]

We could go. Damn. I can't go. Juneteenth. I'm slammed.

[Damaris]

I am, too.

[Rory]

What do you have going on?

[Damaris]

Please enlighten us with your slimy.

[Mall]

I'm going to the. The African American museum in. In D.C. okay.

[Bink]

Really?

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

Okay. That's it? You just going to D.C. just for that? No Rose Bar? No nothing?

[Mall]

Nah. Rose Bar still open?

[Rory]

I hope so.

[Damaris]

It might be.

[Mall]

No, I don't think Rose Bar is still open. To D.C. i think they close.

[Bink]

Okay.

[Mall]

Yeah, I think they closing DC I'm

[Damaris]

all always telling me he gonna take me somewhere, don't ever take me.

[Mall]

Just City Island. You've never been. I gotta take you to City Island. I gotta give you City Island.

[Damaris]

Can Mission Major come?

[Mall]

Oh, my God.

[Rory]

They'll probably be there already.

[Mall]

They can. They can definitely come, but it's like, we got to get out of there before sundown with them, too. Why? Because it's just major. Might say something to somebody. And now we just out There just thumping. You know what I'm saying?

[Damaris]

At least one of us got it on us.

[Mall]

Yeah, but we don't. I just want to go get you some fried lobster tails and go home.

[Damaris]

All right?

[Mall]

I don't want to have it on me.

[Damaris]

I hear you, but yes. If either of you guys want to come to BNB this weekend, I have your tickets. Just let me know.

[Mall]

You know what I'm saying? R m@bnb, like, the way that sound. We might have to do something collab. A little something.

[Damaris]

A little live podcast.

[Mall]

I mean, a little something live stream. You know what I mean?

[Rory]

You want to pop from VIP on Saturday?

[Damaris]

That'll be fun.

[Mall]

Burgers and pod.

[Damaris]

I'm tired.

[Mall]

Pod and burgers. POD and bottles. Pop a bottle. Pod and bottles.

[Rory]

Yo, they going to have a personal for me.

[Mall]

Yeah, but what if me and Rory do, like, burgers and models the same day as burgers and burgers and models?

[Damaris]

Has tears in my eyes.

[Mall]

What if we do that the same day and, like, step on. Y' all roll out.

[Damaris]

You can't step on us.

[Mall]

All right?

[Rory]

I only know, like, one or two models.

[Mall]

See? Don't worry, I got you.

[Damaris]

Man, I hate a lion wigger. You a liar. You know, more than one model, more than two.

[Rory]

Wait, model or chicks that say they model? There's a difference.

[Mall]

There is a difference.

[Rory]

There's a difference between putting model in your bio.

[Damaris]

You get paid to put clothes on, you're a model, okay? You're not a supermodel, you're not a Runway model. But if you get paid to put clothes on, you're a model.

[Mall]

All right?

[Damaris]

If you get paid to take those

[Rory]

off, only fans, model five.

[Mall]

Then numbers going

[Rory]

five and a half. Because it's just bikini pics.

[Mall]

Yeah, man.

[Damaris]

So if me and you beef him, will you buy me a bag if you do some fake to me?

[Rory]

No.

[Mall]

Who beefing?

[Rory]

I don't buy you a bag when we're not beefing. Why would I buy you one if we're beefing?

[Damaris]

I got surgery. I was asking Rory to buy me a bag. He said no. He said, like a coin purse. I asked.

[Mall]

Buying somebody a coin purse is hilarious. Who has coins on them? Like, who still has coins? Coins?

[Damaris]

He said, what do you need? When I had surgery, I was like. I mean, like, you keep sending me food. I'm like, cool on food. Can you buy me a Louis bag? He said, maybe, like a coin purse.

[Mall]

Coin purse.

[Rory]

You know, the little zip one.

[Mall]

No, I know exactly what a coin purse is. I just don't know who has coins anymore. Like who the walks

[Rory]

change.

[Damaris]

People have changed.

[Mall]

Asked me for change the other day. I looked at him like what are you talking about? Like I have credit cards in my pocket. Like what do you who the has changed?

[Damaris]

You know because of like superstition, I still can't throw change away. Like I keep all my quarters pennies down. I keep it because I feel ungrateful. I take, I feel ungrateful throwing away.

[Mall]

Where do you put it?

[Damaris]

It's all in like my desk drawer.

[Rory]

I have a two big mason jars and I take them shits to coin star.

[Mall]

Oh okay.

[Rory]

Each mason rush is like 400 bucks. Yeah, like that adds up.

[Damaris]

I need it all.

[Mall]

Okay. Maybe I should start doing that. You should which cuz you just thought

[Damaris]

like you throw coin away.

[Mall]

Like no, everything is on the card now. So I don't even get changed back. Like where do they.

[Damaris]

Well sometimes I use cash for like laundry, you know, corner store run laundry.

[Mall]

Yeah, it's a card for laundry too.

[Rory]

Now things that I don't want on the record,

[Damaris]

I do wash and fold. So I pay in cash for my wash and fold.

[Mall]

And they give you change?

[Damaris]

Yeah, sometimes it's like 49, 54.

[Mall]

Oh. Cause they weigh the laundry.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Okay.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

And you don't pay.

[Mall]

They don't take card.

[Damaris]

No, they don't take hard. They barely speak English more. No, they don't take hard change.

[Mall]

Like hand you change. I don't even know what bro. The only time I even use cash is for my barber. Like I pay my barber now the

[Damaris]

barber should take apple pay. It's 2026.

[Mall]

My barber, old school. He still do cash off the books. Well I mean cash, that's the only time I have cash when I'm going to the barbershop.

[Rory]

Ever since our accountant got a woman assistant and a woman to do my taxes. Yeah, there's things that I'll take cash out because I don't want.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I don't want them looking through my chase like that. Yeah, I can't explain that one.

[Mall]

Yeah, that one in particular.

[Rory]

Mind your business because come tax time like they're going to ask me to categorize certain things that come up. Like hey, QuickBooks didn't put something on here.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

And then I gotta, I gotta talk about it.

[Damaris]

Yeah but we, we talk about sex all the time. So I feel like, like anything sexual related that you buy we can write off as a tax write off. Like that toy that I bought for this podcast. Like I didn't use that like, that was for a sketch and.

[Rory]

Well, that's written off years ago. I did explain on this podcast when Ki and I went to the sex store, I had to explain that to Loyal of what those charges were. Like, 8th Ave. What's this charge?

[Damaris]

That's.

[Rory]

You should have took cash out for that. Like, I'm.

[Damaris]

Which. Like, for the swing. Like, you should have bought.

[Rory]

We had been drinking, and we were in the moment, you know?

[Mall]

Yeah. You can't go to the ATM before you go to the sex shop. It's just like. Because now it.

[Rory]

Or using the ATM at the sex shop.

[Damaris]

I was gonna say because they have

[Rory]

one in there, and they will steal your data. They'll charge you $4 to take your money out and steal your. Your debit card.

[Mall]

Yeah, for sure.

[Rory]

But. All right, so we'll be at Burgers and Bottles.

[Mall]

Burgers and Bottles.

[Rory]

The reason I asked as special guests,

[Damaris]

the reason I asked for the bag is because currently, Lotto and Cardi B. It was a segue. Lotto and Cardi B are beefing.

[Rory]

I just thought you were ungrateful that I was sending you food when you were recovering.

[Damaris]

They're. They're beefing, right? We're not beefing, but there's kind of a spat that's going on right now because Lotto's album has come out.

[Rory]

It is.

[Damaris]

It's a little spat. I don't think they're beefing. I think they both hurt each other's feelings, and it sucks. Did you guys remember when Cardi B's audio came out where she got caught calling? She was arguing with Ice Spice's manager, and she said, I'm not Ass Lotto.

[Rory]

Vaguely. Vaguely.

[Damaris]

So remember, Cardi came out.

[Rory]

Store that in my brain.

[Damaris]

Cardi came out and asked for a Birkin. Well, Cardi came out and apologized. I was like, I'm sorry, you know, and offered to buy her a Birkin bag.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Damaris]

We'd never seen a response for Lotto. So when Lotto's album come came out on her song Give Me that, she basically was like, be offered to buy me a bag. Like, I got mad bags, my nigga. Buy me bags. Like, is you talking about type fair, but all right.

[Rory]

In that situation, before we get to the next step, maybe I'd still take the bat. Doesn't mean I forgive you, but I'll take the bag.

[Mall]

No, but if you take the bag, you got to forgive.

[Damaris]

No, as a prideful.

[Rory]

I didn't ask you for the bag. You offered it.

[Mall]

All right, cool. Yeah, but if you Take it. That's an apology.

[Rory]

Nah, you offer the bag.

[Damaris]

All right. I feel like, as a prideful woman, because I'm a very prideful woman with a very big, big ego as well. And as much as I love Cardi, if somebody. And I know I think that her heart was in the right place, but if you, as an artist, offer me a bag as a woman. And also, there's this underlying thing where Cardi is one of the biggest female rappers of all time. Like, technically, she is not technically. Literally, she's more successful in a lotto. Don't reach back and offer me a bag like, I'm your side chick. And I, I, I know that that's not like, I'm your side chicken. You caught. Like, I. You caught me outside with my girlfriend. Like, it gives charity. And I don't think that that at all. That, that was card tension, but that's what it can come across as. So, no, I'm not taking it back. I don't need your cheer. You call me.

[Rory]

You know, maybe that's how Cardi accepts apologies. Maybe that's. That's her reality.

[Damaris]

Same, same. But I can get somebody being offended by it. Like, and, And Lotto said on the Breakfast Club, she said that put a nasty taste in her mouth. I think it would put a nasty taste in anybody's mouth, but I think Cardi was just trying to do the wrong thing. But, like, she's. Cardi came out and put out a statement because Lotto was talking about this on the Breakfast Club and said that it put a nasty statement. I mean, put a nasty taste in her mouth. She didn't like it. And she recorded that verse when she middle of her pregnancy. Tension was high, her emotions were high. And Cardi said that phone call came out. I mean, that phone call happened when she was at the height of her pregnancy. So it's a lot of emotions, a lot of hormones. But Cardi did explain, like, hey, I wasn't calling you pussy. I just think you're way too forgiving with that situation with Ice Spice. And, you know, our ideas of making it right looks different to each other, so. Nah.

[Mall]

But Cardi called a pussy. You ain't gonna do that.

[Damaris]

I was not. And I. And I'm with that. I can. You can't. You can't take that back.

[Mall]

You know what I mean? It's like, you know, you. You don't know. You being recorded. You say some things, but now if I hear it, if Rory was on a phone call, you think I'm pussy. Ass maul. Like, you think I'm. If Rory be like, yo, you want to buy you a fitted?

[Damaris]

Well, a fitted is working.

[Rory]

Tia was pregnant, so my emotions were going crazy.

[Mall]

Yeah. Like, nah, get the fuck out of here, man. Like, nah, it ain't that easy to forgive somebody you looked at as a friend on the phone with somebody talking about, yo, I'm not pussy ass. Like, yeah.

[Rory]

You think they're friends?

[Damaris]

They were. They both said that.

[Cal Penn]

They both said that.

[Rory]

I don't know.

[Mall]

Lotto said she considered her a friend.

[Rory]

Yeah, she was like, we were.

[Damaris]

She was like, it wasn't industry shit. We were on, like, texting, like. And I think I, I, I, I truly do think that Cardi's mouth has been Cardi's mouth her entire life. I think sometimes when you're so good. Pause. When you're so good with your mouth, you know, they say people curse real good. Sometimes when you get in a flow state of just going off, you just be saying because it comes natural to you. I don't think that she actually means that, because I can tell from the way she's been apologizing. Apolog. She really hates that she did that. Like, me and you, we've had. Not with each other, but with somebody.

[Mall]

She hate that she did it or hate that it was recorded?

[Damaris]

No, I think, I think, I think she hates that she did it because

[Mall]

if we, if it never got out, you think she'd have been like, yo, listen, I had a conversation with nobody and I called.

[Rory]

No, but people, People do shit that

[Damaris]

I'm proud of all the time and don't say that they said that.

[Rory]

My guess is she probably wouldn't even remember she said it if it wasn't recorded. Yep. Like, deadass. It probably wasn't even that big of a thing that she went like, I, yeah, I don't remember saying that.

[Damaris]

Yeah, yeah. I don't, I don't. I really. Because as, as much as she keeps apologizing in the length of the apology, she said she reached out to her sister, she reached out to her manager, she reached out to her even months after it happened, I think she really does feel bad. And I've done some shit to a friend where it was like, I hate that I, I feel corny that I did this. I wasn't in my best state of mind. I wasn't my best self at the moment, and I hate that.

[Mall]

What did you do that?

[Damaris]

I hate that I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to talk about It.

[Rory]

But it hurt asleep. It ain't me.

[Damaris]

It hurt somebody that I loved, and I. I literally had to come to her and be like, yo, I'm. That was up. That was some corny ass. If you never speak to me again, I respect it, but I didn't mean it like that.

[Mall]

How did you mean it?

[Damaris]

I don't talk about it, but it was.

[Mall]

That's what I'm saying. If you saying something and it get out like, you can't just be like, yo, I didn't mean it like this. How did you mean it?

[Damaris]

You saying you never said something like that or did.

[Mall]

I've never called one of my friends. I've never did that ass or this punk ass nigga. I've never done that with nobody I consider a friend in any conversation, in any room. So that's what I'm saying.

[Rory]

Same situation she's talking about. I also apologize for. But I didn't say I didn't mean it. I said I shouldn't have been joking about something like that.

[Damaris]

Yes.

[Rory]

Yeah, that's what it was.

[Damaris]

That's different.

[Rory]

I just. I didn't mean it like. No, I was joking about something. I should have been. I shouldn't have been joking about her personal life. It wasn't anything, like, bad in that regard. I was making jokes, but it was insensitive and it shouldn't have been on a fucking microphone. So I said I was. I said I was corny for it.

[Mall]

And I apologize that I understand. You may say things sitting on his mic that you.

[Rory]

Yeah, but I didn't call her pussy. And like, yo, this is what I'm saying. No, I joked about something that I shouldn't have been joking about.

[Mall]

So. Okay, that's one thing. Joking about something is one thing. Cardi wasn't on that phone joking.

[Rory]

No. At all.

[Mall]

So this is what I'm saying. So Lotto heard something.

[Rory]

We were just being lame. That's what we did.

[Mall]

Lotto heard something and she thought, like, damn, I thought this was my friend. Yeah, but now I gotta hear you calling me pussy on some conversation. Like, you making lotto. Like you making me a verb. Like pussy ass, lotto. Like what that. You know what I mean? And I'm just supposed to be my friend? Like, yeah, no, ain't no bag on. Just fix that. Like, I'm think.

[Damaris]

I think.

[Rory]

But sincere apologies, I think can eventually fix that.

[Damaris]

I think that's what. What Cardi has to understand. Cardi got to eat it. You got to eat it. Lotto did say she's open to a conversation, you know what I'm saying, with Cardi. But it's never gonna be the same because I. I've now at now, even if that's not how you really feel now, I feel that that's how you really feel about me. So it's never gonna be the same. But you gotta eat that. If you do some up to a person you care about, you gotta eat it. If they're not ready to forgive you or you gotta eat however they react to it, you gotta eat it.

[Mall]

You gotta stand on what you did

[Damaris]

and it feels uncomfortable. It really does feel uncomfortable. Especially if you actually do love the person. That's why I said I feel like she really does love her.

[Mall]

Don't apologize to me the way your man apologized to you with a bag. Nah, fair.

[Rory]

I respect this, though.

[Mall]

Catch him cheating, he show up with a new Birkin.

[Damaris]

That's why I said that's what he. Yeah, it would've put a nasty taste in it.

[Bink]

And I like.

[Mall]

I fuck with Latto and Cardi, you know what I'm saying? But, I mean, I understand Latto's like, stance. Like, nah, I'm cool. It ain't beef. But it's like I. I respect Cardi

[Rory]

being humble here with a second apology. Yeah, I respect this.

[Mall]

Cardi know she was wrong. She know that.

[Rory]

But I respect anybody that. That understands when they fucked up and will double down again on an apology.

[Damaris]

Like, I respect that.

[Mall]

You gotta wear that.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

So I know. I think this is this cool. And I think they probably will get on the phone eventually.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I didn't see the lotto clip, but did she sound like she was like, that upset or more just like. I thought this shit was weird.

[Damaris]

She was asked about it. She didn't bring it up. She was asked about it. She just sounded like she laughed.

[Rory]

She was just.

[Damaris]

Yeah, she was.

[Mall]

I ain't really trying to like.

[Damaris]

Yeah, she. I feel like one. She also just became a mom, so it's like, I just released the album, I just became a mom. This happened almost a year ago. Like, yeah, I'm open to conversation.

[Mall]

Yeah, she's not over it.

[Damaris]

Yeah, she's like, I'm open to a conversation.

[Rory]

The last thing on her mind.

[Mall]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Damaris]

But so,

[Rory]

Mo, I was trying to explain to everyone at Roots Picnic that you do not have to overpay for great wireless. I had service the whole time.

[Mall]

He was telling everybody, everybody.

[Rory]

I said, oh, your phone not working. That's because you don't have boost mobile. $25 a month forever Unlimited Plan. It's a permanent price with no contracts or price hikes. You keep your phone and your number, but you save up to $600 a year compared to the other major carriers. Stop overpaying and switch to a fair price@boost mobile.com based on average annual single

[Mall]

line payment of AT&T, Verizon and T Mobile customers, compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan as of January 2026. For full offer details, visit boostmobile.com hey

[Cal Penn]

everyone, it's Cal Penn, host of Irsay, the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast I'm sitting down with Lily Chu, the author of the Audible original romantic comedy Just Kiss Already. It's a story about a forensic anthropologist who secretly writes mystery novels, an actress who adapts his book into a film, and what happens when a meme and a media tweet collide with a slow burn romance. It's performed by Simu Liu and Philippa Hsu, and it is an absolute blast.

[Damaris]

When you actually hear the performance, you realize that other people are taking your words and what you thought was kind of a straightforward sentence. Like the cat in the corner is black. In my head it's the cat in the corner is black. Not the dog, not the gerbil. But someone else might say it, the cat in the corner corner is black. That's always fascinating to me how they just bring in all these different nuances and really make it fun and interesting and distinctive.

[Cal Penn]

Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Commercial Voice (Autotrader/Cindy Crawford)]

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but like, I never liked being told, oh wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age? Every age. That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now. Meaningful Beauty. Beautiful skin at every age. Learn more@meaningful beauty.com.

[Commercial Voice (Reese Witherspoon/Wells Fargo Ad)]

Picture this Me, Reese Witherspoon in London ordering fish and chips so often they might start wrapping me in paper. I'm traveling with my Wells Fargo Autograph Journey card, so I earn rewards wherever I book travel five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants and other travel, and one point on other purchases. Imagine getting rewarded for eating a toad and in the hole. Wait, what is a toad in a hole?

[Rory]

Visit Wells Fargo.com autograph journey terms apply.

[Damaris]

Are you really buying a car online on Autotrader right now?

[Commercial Voice (Autotrader/Cindy Crawford)]

Really? I can get super specific with dealer

[Damaris]

listings and see cars based on my budget. You can really have it delivered or pick it up. Mommy's walk, I think kid is walking up the slide.

[Bink]

Really?

[Commercial Voice (Reese Witherspoon/Wells Fargo Ad)]

Autotrader.

[Mall]

Buy your car online.

[Commercial Voice (Reese Witherspoon/Wells Fargo Ad)]

Really?

[Damaris]

I listened to her album. I remember you guys asked me how I like the album. I listened to her album.

[Mall]

That doja cat joint. Okay. What's it called?

[Damaris]

Okay, bye. I like that one, too.

[Mall]

Fire.

[Damaris]

She caught a lot of.

[Rory]

She caught a lot of flag saying, Peach is crazy. Yo, Peas. That's our song.

[Mall]

That's our. Right there.

[Damaris]

She caught a lot of flack because the album is very much My man, my man, my man, my man, my man, my man. Now, sugar, honey, iced tea was a little my man, my man, my man, too, but it also had some in there for people to relate to. But this entire album damn near is my man, my man.

[Rory]

Okay, but. All right, you can't win for losing there. And admittedly, I still haven't listened to the album, but if she would have came out here and did a, yo, fuck all these guys. I'm running through this. And that would be like, you're in a relationship with a kid. Why would you rap about that?

[Mall]

Exactly.

[Damaris]

She's rapping.

[Rory]

You can't win in this situation.

[Damaris]

Yeah, she's rapping about.

[Rory]

But you can also, like, yo, we don't want to hear you rapping about your pussy. You got a man. Like, that's exactly what would happen if she did that.

[Damaris]

But. But, yeah, but here's the thing. Between the different. The people who are going to tweet that and the people who are going to listen to the music, right? To an extent, you do have to play to your audience. To an extent, the audience does not want to hear my man, my man, my man music. I do, because when I get a man, I'll be just like that, right? But most people, when they listen to rap, they're using. And I don't want to. When I refer to pussy rap, I refer to rap. Women who have. Who rap. That's. That's not rap.

[Rory]

You can't change the definition. You can't just change a genre because you're you.

[Damaris]

So when you're listening to female rap, there is a level of I hate men that you want to hear.

[Rory]

So Lauryn Hill is rap.

[Damaris]

You don't want to hear this in this album, right? You don't. You don't Want to hear that. So they.

[Rory]

Yo. So mc, like, that's rap.

[Damaris]

Shut up. Anyway, they don't want to hear that. A lot of. So she caught a lot of backlash with the My man, my man, my man.

[Rory]

But I don't think a lot of pussy rap either way.

[Damaris]

I think she's not. But I think with sugar honey iced tea, it was a perfect balance. You know how much I advocated for that album. I love that album so much. I feel like it was a perfect balance of the things that the single girls can listen to. And the My man, my man sexual. This one just leaned completely. My man, my man. So I understand the backlash that she got.

[Mall]

That's your.

[Rory]

We gonna get flagged.

[Mall]

I was looking for. Okay.

[Damaris]

But that's the same backlash that happen.

[Bink]

Okay.

[Damaris]

Meg got with the song that she released. So. But now Meg.

[Rory]

Wait. Now we mad that women are living their rhymes. Lotto has a man and has a kid just rapping about it. Meg just got out of a relationship and she's in the men. I don't want to say hostage of a breakup, but she's in that I'm outside type of time right now. Of course Meg is gonna rap. Fuck all that wifey. It's over.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

That's like all. That's the six steps to a breakup.

[Damaris]

It's in the second one people are happy about. They were upset about. My man, my man, my man, my man, my baby.

[Rory]

Let's. Let's refer to lemonade as the 11 stages of breakup grief. She's at the weekend. What's the weekend song? Six Inch Heels. She's at six Inch heels.

[Mall]

Time.

[Rory]

Yes. It's it. We on a yacht. My ass is out.

[Damaris]

Long story short, women love to go

[Mall]

on that yacht when they hurt, don't they? When they trying to recover from that heartbreak. They love going on the yacht, boy. They go right to Miami.

[Damaris]

Why would you not want sunshine when your heart is hurt? Why would you not want sunshine and water be among the elements?

[Mall]

I want sunshine when I'm hurt When I'm happy Happy like sunshine and water is my vibe.

[Damaris]

She was on a boat with the. And now she broke up with the nigga.

[Mall]

Yeah, but. But it's something about when a woman is fresh out of a relationship, her first little trip on the. On the yacht with the girls. That's when a lot of women had their first little lesbian experience. International waters. They can't be. You know. They can't. It's not the same charges.

[Rory]

Yeah. It's not the man law.

[Mall]

It's the woman law at that point. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I love how y' all

[Damaris]

put, like, y', all, like, fantasies on, like, women like that. Y', all, like, have wet dreams about. Y' all just, like, put that out.

[Rory]

Like, a lot of I've gotten is because they were coming off a breakup and heartbroken. Yeah.

[Mall]

Talking like, how many women you think I know in my life?

[Rory]

No, I know you.

[Damaris]

I'm sure you know a lot.

[Mall]

You think I'm just pulling out a thin air. You think I'm pulling from.

[Damaris]

I'm talking about women being hurt. I'm talking about women having their first lesbian experience.

[Mall]

That's how it happens when they. When they fresh out of a breakup.

[Damaris]

Sounds like a wet dream.

[Mall]

No, it don't. That sounds like. I know a girl that had her first lesbian experience after she had a breakup and she was on a boat in Miami.

[Damaris]

That's dope. But I don't think that's just, like, the regular, like, that's life.

[Mall]

I said women love to have their first lesbian experience fresh out of a breakup on a boat in Miami. That sounds very specific. The marriage.

[Rory]

The sample of the Meg song is. Is him or what is it? It's that guy.

[Damaris]

It was.

[Rory]

It's a. It's like a lesbian anthem.

[Damaris]

All that wifey is dead. Put that to bed.

[Mall]

All that wifey.

[Rory]

I'm talking about the.

[Damaris]

Make a bag when he wants.

[Rory]

About the sample on the beat is,

[Damaris]

I'm going make him beg.

[Mall]

When I want some head, I' ma make him back. See? All she want is head. That sound like lesbian activities.

[Rory]

Women eat way better than us. Are you so man.

[Mall]

As they should.

[Rory]

I'm gonna make them beg when I want some head. I don't really understand the bar, though.

[Damaris]

Yeah, you want to give me head? I'm gonna make you.

[Rory]

If I want some head. I'm not gonna make her beg. Just give me some head. Yeah, like, that's.

[Damaris]

You don't value. You don't value your penis. That's you.

[Rory]

No, I valued it enough.

[Mall]

But if a woman.

[Rory]

I'm not gonna waste time.

[Mall]

I'm not. I'm not gonna beg for you.

[Rory]

That's not my kink. Yeah, I don't have that deprecation. That deprecation kink is not mine.

[Damaris]

Some people like begging. A lot of. A lot of.

[Rory]

I know that's a thing. I know it's a thing, but that's not me. You don't have to beg.

[Mall]

A lot of men like begging and pegging. And Megan ain't This.

[Damaris]

This is a. A rat prophet, isn't he?

[Mall]

I mean, I'm just saying this, you know, that's all. I'm just, you know, looking at life.

[Rory]

Look at his lineage. On top of that, Earl the Pearl, Even his nickname rhymes.

[Mall]

I'm saying. Yeah, man, it's not me, baby. I was born into.

[Rory]

Look at the.

[Mall]

The universe did this. Not me. I didn't do this. I'm just here.

[Damaris]

Did you get any phone calls from your family after your proclamation OVO Nation?

[Rory]

That did go viral.

[Mall]

No, I spoke to my shout out to my brother Vaughn. Vaughn called me. We had a fun little conversation. I'll just leave it at that. Yeah.

[Rory]

So you haven't spoken to Biggs nice

[Mall]

with the bigs yet?

[Rory]

Okay, well, we have to speak this

[Mall]

weekend, I think about.

[Rory]

About that script.

[Mall]

Yeah. Me, him and Hop is in a. A group text together though, and they was putting hosting videos and in there laughing. They wouldn't call me about. Nobody would call me about that. I'm a grown man. Ask me anything.

[Damaris]

Yeah, I was wondering. Yo, I see.

[Rory]

Oh, you should buy him a bag if they're upset.

[Damaris]

OVO Noel commented on the video of me and you flirting. I said they about to kick mall out. They think he enemy.

[Mall]

That's funny.

[Damaris]

That said. Wait, what? That had me boy. I was laughing for so long. Like, chill.

[Mall]

Oh, the. The peach at it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. A lot of people did. I've seen a lot of people like, yeah. Wait, did I miss something? I missed a couple episodes. Like, what the Did I miss? Just a peach at it, though. That's it.

[Damaris]

It's a peach at it.

[Rory]

I spoke to your. Your twin, and she's fine with me being the twin now.

[Mall]

Okay.

[Damaris]

Yeah, y' all look just alike.

[Rory]

Everyone calls me more anyway, so, yeah, I might as well.

[Mall]

I've been called Rory a few times, but.

[Rory]

Okay, so there was no. Thanksgiving is going to be fine.

[Mall]

Everything is fine, man. Everything is perfectly fine.

[Rory]

They're gonna lace your food with the. The space cakes again. Thanks, man.

[Mall]

Nobody doing that. The Internet tried to make that a thing. They're calling me Fredo. You haven't seen the Godfather? You're Fredo now. Shut the up you and Cameron are y' all talk. Shut the.

[Rory]

It's an uptown thing.

[Mall]

You can't go to Yankee Stadium. What? What do people be talking about, man?

[Damaris]

Like they said, you can't go to a Yankee stadium.

[Mall]

Yeah. What the are y' all talking? People are crazy, man.

[Rory]

I heard you got kicked out of Yankee Stadium.

[Mall]

Already.

[Damaris]

Told Tasha K that you got kicked out of Yankee Stadium?

[Rory]

Well, no, I'm glad that. That everything is. Is okay.

[Mall]

Everything is okay, man. The Internet just, you know, the comment section and people on the Internet that don't know and you know, don't know. My relationships with certain people are they just, you know. But that's not for people to know.

[Rory]

Have you seen any of the reactions? We already talked about Oskino's reaction to the freestyle, but since we recorded on Monday, Jaguar writers replied.

[Mall]

Of course she has. We spoke with everybody. That gives life to everybody for at least another year and a half.

[Rory]

We'll get to Dame's response, but I will say Jaguar Wright quite possibly has the greatest response to anything in history. The first thing she said when they interviewed her was, why would Jay be talking about me?

[Mall]

Just out of the thin blue air, Jay just said Jaguar's name. Yeah, I get it.

[Rory]

Oh, I don't know. For the last five years you've been saying he's been running a pedophile ring.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Like anytime someone puts a mic in your face. I don't know. No, she said it like with sincerity.

[Mall]

Like totally confused.

[Rory]

Why would he be talking about me?

[Mall]

Yeah, totally confused.

[Rory]

What I do.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

I wish everybody took their meds. The world will be a calmer place if everybody just took the meds that they need.

[Mall]

Ayahuasca. If he would just go to ayahuasca trip. Just take a trip to Costa Rica, Mexico somewhere. Just get your ayahuasca ceremony and then come back and let us see who you are. I think that would change so much about people.

[Rory]

I still have in my favorites, the one in Costa Rica that my therapist sent. Only thing is it's like a whole week and you got to in a bucket for most of it. And I don't know how like in between tripping, how you in a bucket? That's my only got.

[Mall]

You have to in the bucket.

[Rory]

You're in like your own.

[Mall]

Who told you that?

[Rory]

My. My therapist did it with her husband.

[Mall]

You have to in the bucket.

[Damaris]

Well, they have the one that they sent him. The place that they.

[Mall]

Why do you have to in a bucket?

[Rory]

Cuz it's out like you're outdoors and you have your area like they have for the week. They have different times where it's like the group ayahuasca.

[Mall]

I know you have a bucket and then throw up.

[Rory]

There's that, but there's also a bucket.

[Mall]

Oh yeah. No, I'm cool.

[Rory]

Cuz there it's literally out like in the wilderness.

[Damaris]

Are they the same bucket, I think.

[Rory]

I think it's two different buckets. For the price. I think they give you two buckets.

[Damaris]

How much is the price?

[Rory]

I think it's around ten grand. For the. For the whole week. But, yeah, that's. That's the only thing. Like, if I'm having life revelations, I just. I don't know if I could also just be sitting on a bucket at the same time. Yeah, that would scare me.

[Mall]

Yeah. For 10 grand, I gotta have a bathroom, though.

[Damaris]

Do I get wi Fi?

[Rory]

I doubt if.

[Mall]

They look at the marriage one coming

[Rory]

off Verizon files, but they don't have. They don't have plumbing.

[Mall]

Do they have WI Fi? He's coming off ayahuasca trip.

[Damaris]

I need to be able to be

[Rory]

on the timeline during an ayahuasca is hilarious.

[Damaris]

No, I don't want to be on the like, but I gotta, like. You know how, like, you drunk down, like, got to, like, ayahuasca dial, like, ayahuasca facetime.

[Mall]

All you going to do is keep saying, I love everybody. I love you all. Life is beautiful.

[Damaris]

That's fire. But I. You know what I'm afraid of? Drugs that make you too truthful. You around and do a drunk call or a drug call, and you too truthful. You been told that the truth?

[Mall]

Yeah, that's when you're online talking about your ass.

[Rory]

See, I don't think you know the severity of an ayahuasca. You're not going to be able to dial your phone. You'd be on, literally another planet.

[Mall]

Yeah, she don't know ayahuasca you not thinking about.

[Damaris]

I'm gonna find a way to call.

[Rory]

That don't exist.

[Damaris]

I don't give a fuck what planet I'm on. I'm a fighter with a call that. You tripping.

[Mall]

You tripping. Hell nah. You gonna be so mad. You haven't even met that nigga. Coming off the ayahuasca, you're gonna be like, what was I thinking? Like, I cannot believe I gave myself to this man. That ayahuasca, that should start revealing everything.

[Bink]

Ew.

[Mall]

That shit takes all ego away. Every last ounce of it gone.

[Rory]

Or maybe she'll realize she was the problem.

[Damaris]

That's what I'm saying. Never realized no shit like that.

[Mall]

But that's what the ayahuasca does, though. That's ego. See that? That's your ego right there. The ayahuasca, it strips all of that. You just are like a living being, just happy to be on planet Earth.

[Damaris]

I don't like that.

[Rory]

If we want to save some money, we could just do DMT in my living room and just see where it goes.

[Mall]

Doing DMT in Jersey is right. And then having to go back through the tunnel.

[Damaris]

Yo. Oh, my. Go. Coming down off DMT in a tunnel.

[Mall]

That is the worst idea ever.

[Rory]

When I did my sound journey and went to, like, a completely another planet, like, a whole different universe.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Getting back in my car and sitting in traffic from Williamsburg to Jersey was like. I felt like I was melting in that scene.

[Damaris]

No, it had.

[Rory]

It was the cr. It was the craziest feeling ever. I was like, why am I on this planet?

[Damaris]

This would have had to be a sleepover. Sleepover.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

I'm not getting in traffic. Yeah, I'm not getting in traffic.

[Rory]

Well, no, I wasn't right away. I, like, they make you stay. It's very professional. Make you stay for, like, an hour and a half to, like, really cut. Like, then they have the powwows and all that. But you still feel that. Oh, yeah. I told you. We sit in, like, a circle. And like, I was telling you one. One girl was like, I had bulimia. Now I don't. And, like, everyone's like, I talked.

[Damaris]

She knows she ain't eating on yet.

[Rory]

That's what I thought, too. I was like, how you know? We just woke up, you ain't even ate.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

There was another person. Was I. I talked to my dead grandmother. Finally got closure with my family, and they got to me because you could pass. You don't have to speak. And I passed because I was going to say I found out I'm a horrible person. Everyone else had, like, the best experience. Cured shit, talked to dead relatives. Like, I'm not a good person. That was really not good.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Damaris]

Did you, like, do you feel like you changed since then? Like, have you tried to be a better person?

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

No. All right. Not a bad person. I realized with the tones, which I've talked about this, that I feel really good around dark, dark, dark tones and things that are too aggressive and bad for me. I was the happiest during the sound journey. Then when it got to light tones and the 4K frequencies, the God frequencies and all that, I was super uncomfortable just waiting for us to go back to hell. Like, I felt way more comfortable there. So, yeah, I was like, oh, maybe I'm just a shitty person.

[Mall]

Maybe you are, Lucifer. Maybe.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Rory]

I never found out. Kanye wrote that whole song today. That's the new thing on the. On the timeline.

[Mall]

Got it.

[Rory]

Okay,

[Mall]

listen, Man, I'm in my. I'm in my. Got it. All right, cool. Whatever y' all find out. Cool. I got it, man. It is what it is.

[Rory]

But did you guys see the first art of dialogue clip that went out of. Of Dame reacting to the freestyle?

[Mall]

Yes, I did.

[Rory]

Listen, man, I have a lot of respect for Dame. This podcast has advocated for Dame for a long time. I respect everything he does. Independently, we've promoted America New. We've. We've. We've been Team Dame over here for a while. It's. It's getting kind of tough to watch, man. I have to be objective in. In this. I don't know Dame, but when I say that's my guy always looked up to Dane. This is. This is getting really hard to watch somebody that you had such a high respect for of their perspective to go this route. I'm not saying he can't reply to what Jay said, because Jay was replying to him. Of course you can. But you just. And I'm here for the jokes. You want to make jokes, whatever. Yeah, but, like, yo, he must be broke. Like, all this is. It's like. It's weird. Yeah, it's just weird. It's not Dame to me, and I don't know Dame, but it's just not what I've observed of Dame for the last 20 years and how he carries himself. It's been weird the last couple years. That's all I'll say.

[Mall]

I think it all stems from a place. I mean, obviously I have. I'm privy to certain things that most are not. But I think we can all watching what we're watching, agree that it is just a sense of hurt there. And, like, and I love what Dame said about him, you know, still considering Jay his brother. You know what I'm saying? Like, even though Dave obviously have gone different ways in different paths, but still considers him his brother. So I mean, that right there to me, lets me know, like, you know, Dame is. We're talking about dmt, ayahuasca. I would love to see Dame.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Coming off of an ayahuasca ceremony and seeing who he is and revealing some things. Because Dame, if you know Dame. Dame's ego is. Is, you know, a lot of his personality is his ego. But that can be a good thing because you need ego to kind of, like, believe in yourself, believe in your vision. You gotta have a certain amount of ego to kind of, you know, be a CEO, entrepreneur and make things happen. That's. Ego can be healthy when used the right way. But then, you know, sometimes you stand on your ego so long and realize that's all you standing on is your ego.

[Rory]

Yeah, we talk about ego. Ego being good when you balance it correctly. I think Dame, in the early days of what we saw, he was balancing his ego for good at that time. Like, it was positive to protect his label against their partner that may be doing some things that he didn't agree with. The ego was used for good at that time. The bad ego, I feel like, has just taken over at this point, that it's taken away critical thinking and logic from everything. Because even I. Fuck. The whole broke thing. You're telling Jay the only reason you'd be up there performing is because you're broke. But then at the end of the clip, you're saying, why doesn't Jay do anything creative anymore? Celebrating your 30th and 25th anniversary with a show is creativity. So is it Uchiwale or One Mic? Should you do something creative? Or if you do something creative, it means you're broke, Right? Which one is it?

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

And on top of that, I would challenge Art of Dialogue to ask Dame if the Black Keys, which. The album he executive produces. Black Keys is a great album. If they wanted to honor that on its 30th anniversary at Yankee Stadium, would you do it, Dame? Because the answer's yes.

[Mall]

Oh, of course, Dame.

[Rory]

The album that you just put out with Freeway, which I think is cool, I really wasn't mad at it. If the world wanted to honor that on its 25th anniversary, Yankee Stadium, would you go on stage with Freeway? Or would that mean you're broke? No. If the Roots wanted Dame, Dash, and Freeway to headline next year, would you do it?

[Mall]

Of course he would.

[Rory]

Nah, that means you broke.

[Damaris]

But you know that Dame don't even believe what he's saying.

[Rory]

Like, I used to think that. I'm starting to think he believes this shit.

[Damaris]

He does not believe that JC is broken. He does not believe that. He does not believe that.

[Rory]

I'm starting to think he even Dame's troll, because you can tell if you know people from Harlem, like, when they're really trolling. I think he believes the things he's saying, though.

[Mall]

Nah, I think. I don't think he believes the things he's saying. I believe that he believes that he has to say the things that he's saying. I don't think he believes what he's saying, though. Like, Dame knows Jay is not broke. Nowhere near it. You can't be married to Beyonce and be broke.

[Rory]

I Mean, she said the Forbes list.

[Damaris]

Congratulations to Beyonce. Even though we don't celebrate billionaires, she just hit the Forbes list for becoming another billionaire.

[Mall]

Yeah, like, you just. I mean, broke. That's not what that B stands for. I can promise you that. That's not what that B stand. But again, like I said, man, I think that, you know, Dame just is. You know, he's. He's in a spot where he just has to. He has to stand on what he's been standing on, you know what I'm saying? And sometimes again, you end up looking down and realize that that's all you standing on. And it's like, it's okay to just be like, yo, you know, I'm hurt. And I think Damon spoke to that him. He has heard about everything that happened and how things happened, but a lot of it is baked in ego and pride with Damon. Like I said, ego can be a healthy thing if used the right way, if balanced with reality and humility. You know what I mean? You need balance in life. That's what life is, balance. It can't just be ego, ego, ego all the time. And I'm right, I'm right, I'm right. It's my way, my way, my way. That just doesn't. That's not how the universe is designed. So, you know, I mean, I still got a lot of love and respect for Dame, you know what I'm saying? A big part of my growing up, being around him and my brothers. A lot of conversations and things that was instilled in me, I still hold to this day. But, yeah, we all grow as men and get older and things happen and things go another way. And sometimes it's unfortunate where shit lands, but, you know, I still got nothing but love and respect for Damon. And hopefully he's, you know, which it seems that he's doing everything that he wants to do, and he still has a creative mind, and he still has a lot of things that he wants to do and things like that, which is, you know, good things like, keep creating, keep doing what you're doing. But I think it is time for another narrative between. When it comes to hearing Dame talk about Jay, I think it's time for a different narrative. Like, we get it, you know, the relationship went source. We know that you obviously still your words, look at him as a brother and things like that, but it's just time for a new narrative. When it comes to hearing Dame talk

[Damaris]

about Jay, it's been too long. I kind of wish Jay wouldn't have. I Get why James YJ addressed everybody, but I wish he wouldn't have, because I felt like maybe it was getting towards the time where people will stop giving Dame a platform and talk about Jay, But Jay just reignited that fire.

[Rory]

I don't. If the whole Busby thing didn't happen, I don't think we get that. But I think Jay out the gate when the Busby thing happened, posted on Instagram and getting in front of that lawsuit right away, that pissed him off so much that he's going to address that. And while I'm at it, I might as well address the rest of yo. If I'm going to speak, I might as well speak about everyone if the Busby shit doesn't happen. No, I don't think he gets up there and talks about Nikki, Dame, Oskino. I don't think any of that happens. But while we're up here. Yeah, y' all are nuts.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

So. But I mean, the. The. I think Dame had one great move in that first clip. I personally just think that Jay is going to cut his hair for Reasonable Doubt. And Blueprint Dane positioned it where he can now say that Jay listened to him and that's why he cut his hair. Because through that whole clip, he's like, jay, I need you to cut your hair. Do the Caesar with the Yankee. The shit that we all think Jay is going to do and was probably already going to do. Now, Dane could be like, you listen to me.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Which isn't the truth, but it was a good move.

[Mall]

But. But in Dame fashion, he's going to take credit for that.

[Rory]

Of course he is.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

He's going to take 1000%. He's going to.

[Bink]

Cuz Jay.

[Mall]

I believe Jay is definitely going to cut his hair for the Yankee Stadium show.

[Damaris]

I don't want him to. I like the fro.

[Rory]

Yeah. I think the fro is cool, but.

[Mall]

Yeah, but where do you go from the fro? Now he's not going to get cornrows.

[Damaris]

God, no. He don't got the head for it.

[Mall]

And I don't see him com. I don't see him combing out his wicks to then retwist and lock his hair again. Like.

[Damaris]

But I mean, if he combed out his wig, I think he did it

[Rory]

to cut his hair.

[Damaris]

No, you don't have to comb out. You won't have to spend four days getting your hair combed out.

[Rory]

All right. He has the roots picnic was before, obviously, Reasonable doubt and blueprint. I think he wanted to have the moment of his haircut for that. So in between do that?

[Mall]

Yeah. I mean, I think he did it

[Rory]

to cut his hair.

[Mall]

There's also a world where he will

[Rory]

hit this stage with a fro.

[Mall]

With a fro? Yeah.

[Rory]

100%.

[Damaris]

I'm not spending four days.

[Mall]

I'm not dialed into it. I don't care about it that much. I think aesthetically that is kind of like what people are leaning to, like, if it's the 30th anniversary of reasonable Doubt. Like, do you go back to that original aesthetic with Jay with the low Caesar? You know what I'm saying? Like, do you go back to that aesthetic? I think we can kind of guess that that is probably the thing, but I don't. There's also a world where he's like, I'm not thinking about it that deeply.

[Rory]

Do you think he dresses to, like, the way your brother. Him and Dame on the Reasonable Doubt cover, like, with those suits? You think he does that?

[Mall]

I think he comes out like that.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mall]

But I think eventually he goes into a Yankee jersey and kind of like when him and JD Their money in the thing. Yeah, Jersey. Braves jersey. Like, I think he goes into that at some point.

[Rory]

I hope he.

[Mall]

A Derek Jeter jersey for blueprint.

[Rory]

I hope he goes full 2001. Like, dress as stupid as we were all dressing in 2001. Yeah, I'd like to see that. Like, let's really.

[Mall]

What was dressing fashion? It wasn't that. I mean, it was Rockaware, obviously. I mean, so baggy. You wanted to go baggy, is what you're saying.

[Rory]

Oh, one baggie wasn't too. Too bad. No. Yeah, it was more. It was more towards, like, 04 when things got, like, really nasty. I guess 01 wasn't that bad.

[Damaris]

I take it for 05 it was really bad.

[Rory]

Yeah. It got weird at that point.

[Mall]

01 wasn't too bad.

[Rory]

Yeah. 01 wasn't. Wasn't crazy.

[Mall]

It was just, you know.

[Rory]

But yeah. Which, I mean, shit, now the. The jeans now are 01 jeans.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

So. Yeah.

[Mall]

Was it called Ryan Hill Drag? We never had heel drag, Ryan. We had big jeans. But if your jeans was dragging on

[Rory]

the floor, he was dragging people and putting your heels on their dirt ball.

[Mall]

Yeah. You looked at as dirty if your jeans was dragging on the floor back then. But we had some big baggy jeans.

[Damaris]

I meant to ask you, speaking of Jay's hair, you said something on our. One of our previous episodes about your conversation with Drake, and that has gone viral. Like, everything you fucking say in connection With Drake, did you get any backlash for that? Cause you kind of set him up to be shitted on.

[Mall]

No, I didn't.

[Damaris]

I know you didn't do it on purpose, but what I'm saying was.

[Mall]

And no matter what somebody says about Drake, they gonna shit on Drake. We know that, but it wasn't. He was con. He was kind of thrown off just like everybody else. Like, yo, is that a. Is that a wig? Cause the last time we saw Jay, he had wicks. Like, yeah. So that was the. A real reaction. Like, yo, but what's up with the head? Like, what is he.

[Damaris]

I just was wondering, I guess in your. In your. Cause I know with all of us, not even just with our famous friends, sometimes we're talking about friends and innocent conversations and things get turned around. So I know sometimes my friends have asked me to stop talking about them on our podcast. So that's why.

[Mall]

I mean, for me, it's not like that any. Anybody that knows me knows I'm not. I'm never saying something and trying to paint them in a negative way. Like, the Internet is going to do what the Internet does. No matter what you say, they're going to paint it how they paint it. But no, it wasn't a negative thing. It was a confused thing, as everybody was like, we were all. And obviously that's what Jay wanted. He had the hood on the day before, didn't show nobody. He knew what that was gonna do. Like, everybody was like, oh, shit. So that's what his reaction was. Like, yo, is that his hair? Is that a wig? Is that. Like, what is that? Nobody under. It was all confusion.

[Rory]

But I know how the Internet works. That's why when you said it, I was like, oh, they're gonna take that and run with it. But then right after that, I said, in Drake's defense, everyone that I was around was coming up with theories during Hovito of like, oh, he's gonna take it off. He's gonna be the Caesar. Like, everyone in real time at the festival thought, yo, that might be a wig. He's gonna take the off. So, yeah, I don't think it's a crazy thing to text your friend, like,

[Damaris]

yo, no, but when you. When you're dealing with someone who has been accused of not being a part of not not understanding their culture and

[Mall]

don't understand the culture, they don't have culture.

[Damaris]

You have.

[Mall]

Have in Toronto, you have a.

[Damaris]

When you. When you have someone who's. Has been accused of that and they're also biracial, and then you make a comment about black hair. I knew the moment you said that that that was going to be.

[Mall]

It wasn't a comment about black hair. It was a comment about what's up with Jay.

[Rory]

Just know how the Internet works.

[Mall]

Yeah, but that's what I'm speaking to. That, like. It wasn't a comment about black hair. It was a comment about Jay Z's hair. Like, what the. Is that his hair? Is that a wig? Like, people didn't genuinely did not know what it was like, because a lot of people don't know that. You can comb out your locks. You can comb out your wicks. A lot of people that cut their locks, they just go straight and cut it. They clip the wicks and get a fucking. Either a little fro or a Caesar. Nobody ever seen somebody really comb out.

[Rory]

I will say I would have never guessed it, because I am outside of the fro culture. Jay did it. Did what it was supposed to. It's a conversational piece. I'm like, oh, that's not what he was doing. Yeah, we're still talking about. Everyone's still talking about just seeing Lord Jamar and Vlad talking about if it's possible to do that.

[Mall]

Like, yeah, it's very possible.

[Rory]

It became a conversational piece completely of his fro, where I was just like, oh, that's cool.

[Mall]

And then the hairstylist, she spoke about it. Yeah, she said something like that.

[Rory]

Four days, four days. Four days. Four days.

[Damaris]

Four days, Four days and four bottles of sacred.

[Mall]

I guess that was also four days and four bottles. Bottles of sacred. That sound like a new goddamn slogan. Four days, four bottles of sacred. You get your edges back, yo.

[Damaris]

It was just very confused. It was. It just shows that everybody, they gotta be best friends.

[Mall]

Now.

[Rory]

Imagine sitting 10 hours a day for four days. Yeah, that's your best friend, though.

[Damaris]

Everybody does live in their own corners of the world. Because I was flabbergasted to see people be flabbergasted that you could comb, lock so out. Like, to me, that's common, like, black hair knowledge. I was confused why everybody was.

[Mall]

Yeah, but a lot of people, when I was a dreads, they cut their dreads.

[Rory]

I was the complete opposite. I didn't know that you couldn't do that.

[Damaris]

You didn't know that you could do that.

[Rory]

Everyone was saying, you can't do that. I didn't know you couldn't.

[Damaris]

Oh, yeah.

[Rory]

It's like, I didn't know that. Yeah. I thought that was possible. I don't know. I don't know.

[Mall]

I don't know.

[Damaris]

That's a regular thing. People do that. People do that all the time. It's a regular thing. So that's why I was just like, come. I was like. But then the videos of people doing it started going viral. It was just weird watching, like, people have discussions on things. I was just like. I thought this.

[Rory]

And again, outside white mind. Like. Like, all my friends that did have locs when I was a kid, when they cut them, they did just cut their hair, but I didn't think it's because they couldn't. I just thought they wanted to cut their hair.

[Damaris]

Well, it's because it takes a long time. It takes a long time. It's a lot of effort.

[Mall]

Long time. A lot of care.

[Damaris]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rory]

Oh, yeah. I'm sure you can damage your hair really easily.

[Damaris]

It's a really slow process. So a lot of people don't do that. They just cut it. But, yeah, plenty of people that comb out their locks.

[Rory]

And, you know, I know Jay's broke, but I'm sure Beyonce paid.

[Mall]

She fronted him the bottles of Sacred.

[Rory]

I'm sure a billionaire could get that done faster than the average.

[Mall]

Sacred was on the arm. That was an arm.

[Damaris]

No, it does not get done faster than the average person. Same amount, same amount of time. There's no. There's no.

[Mall]

Unless you have multiple.

[Rory]

I was about to say, could you get, like. You would have people to do.

[Damaris]

Yeah, but the. But the. The stylist didn't say that. I think, like, two of his styles came out. But yeah, it's a tender loving care process.

[Rory]

Who's. Who's homie from Rage against the Machine, lead singer. I gotta talk to him about the white locks, see how long it takes

[Mall]

to get them up.

[Damaris]

No, though. Your hair will crumble. White people not even supposed to have locks.

[Rory]

Your hair will fucking crumble. You don't remember my man from Rachel? He had the dirty white locks.

[Mall]

Zach de la Roche de la Roca.

[Rory]

He coined the dirty white dreads.

[Damaris]

Is he white? He look biracial?

[Mall]

Oh, I don't know.

[Damaris]

That ain't a white man, Rory. Look at you, trying to take him white.

[Rory]

They used to call. They used to coin his dirty white locks, like. Yeah, that was a thing when we were a kid. Dirty white locks.

[Damaris]

That is not a white man in this.

[Rory]

Okay, well, then everyone called him white

[Mall]

and his locks ain't dirty.

[Rory]

All right, I'm not making this up. That was a thing.

[Mall]

No, you being racist, right?

[Damaris]

Yo, you being racist. His name is Zach De La Rocha. I don't. I don't see if he's him being white.

[Mall]

De La. Yeah, no, he's not a white.

[Rory]

Okay, everyone in the comments, please remind them that everyone called the lead singer of Rage against the Machine.

[Mall]

Everyone in the comments, please remind Rory that he's racist.

[Rory]

Yo, you don't need to do that. It'll be there. Right there.

[Mall]

Oh, look, he's Mexican American.

[Rory]

Mexican, African background, Jewish, German, Irish.

[Mall]

Not gonna read the first. Mexican, African, Sephardi. Jewish, German, and Irish roots. Yeah, okay.

[Damaris]

Yeah, so he's Mexican.

[Rory]

There's white Mexicans.

[Mall]

That is true. But it says. Also it says African. There's white Africans, too.

[Rory]

Yeah, well, everyone comes from Africa.

[Mall]

Well, then, come on.

[Damaris]

Yeah, Remember that. Remember that ass. Oh, how did you feel about the. The Conway verse freestyle on the Make

[Mall]

Them Pay shout out to my guy Conway, man. That's my man. Always love when I hear Con drop some music.

[Damaris]

But.

[Mall]

But some of the things he said, and I was like, ah, it was a little disheartening and a little like,

[Rory]

you know, what specifically?

[Mall]

I mean, something that I knew for a while, but I just never spoke about it publicly was the. One of the main reasons why it was kind of like a. I guess a splitting Griselda was because Gun, west side Gun, didn't want to give Benny and Conway 5% of Griselda. So 10%, and let them split 10%, which is something that Jay Z had had kind of, like, suggested in a meeting with them. And Gunn said no, he didn't want to do that, which to me was shocking. When I first heard about that, I was like, word. Like, now, don't get a twisted Gun. You know, he definitely curated the whole Griselda thing. He got it lit, got it popping. But Griselda is not Griselda without the three of them.

[Rory]

I agree.

[Mall]

So when you say 10%, that's nothing. And we're a family for real. Like, brothers and cousin. Like, that was a little shocking. And I never spoke on it because obviously that's something that I guess, you know, they didn't want to be public knowledge, so I wasn't gonna be the person to speak about that. But Conway obviously, you know, put it out there on this freestyle. And. Yeah, so that was something that. When I first heard about that, I was kind of like, damn, you know, that's a little. Little fucked up. But, you know, I'm hearing that they've had conversations and are working through things and in a better place right now than they were a while ago. So hopefully they get that right. And then Conway talking about his split with my guy Chad, who was managing him. You know, I spoke to Chad a couple months ago, and he. A couple weeks ago, and he let me know that, you know, him and Khan was going separate ways. You know, didn't really get into the whys or whatever it was. Just, you know, let me know that, you know, he wasn't gonna really be around anymore. But, you know, wanna remain in touch and things like that. I haven't spoken to Conway yet. I am gonna call him, though, so

[Rory]

we could chop it up and again, that's their business. But shout out to Chad. Love, Chad. Chad. Chad is. Yeah, whatever they do that's good to me.

[Mall]

Not our business. Conway said what he said, obviously, in regards to the situation. And I've had, you know, a personal conversation with Chad, and that will remain personal as well, but same, you know, things happen, man. You know, things sometimes go. Go sour, go a different way for whatever reason, you know. But change is not always a negative thing. Change can be great for both. Both sides. Obviously, we know a little something about that, Rory. Yeah.

[Rory]

And I mean, if Conway and Benny were asking for, like, 33%, I'd be like, then you could understand that. Like, west built this. He put up a lot of money. Like, yeah, but a lot of infrastructure comes from that. But if you splitting five and five, dog.

[Mall]

Like, yeah, and this is coming from Jay Z's mouth, like, yo, why don't you just give them 10%, let them split 10, we do the deal. You know what I mean? Like, and we. We keep. Keep rocking, and.

[Rory]

And I know we. We've talked about people's actual business before and this and that, but, I mean, I would like to hear Wes's side because I. I do sometimes get uncomfortable talking about this because we don't know all the details with everything. Because I've even seen it happen with you and I where people are misinformed, naturally, because they don't have all the details of everything. And looked at you and I like, we were fucking crazy. And then they got the details and was like, oh, no, they not nuts. So I don't know what. Those conversations we're hearing Conway's side, and I'm not calling Conway a liar whatsoever,

[Mall]

but I'd like what Conway's saying is what it is.

[Rory]

Okay?

[Mall]

There's no. This isn't coming from somebody that wasn't there, that wasn't a part of it. This is somebody that is directly involved in it.

[Rory]

Oh, no, for sure.

[Mall]

I get that. So this is basically the horse's mouth, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's not coming from a blogger or somebody that may have heard, like, this is Conway saying reason why I never spoke on it. And I knew about this for a while, but I did. I wasn't bringing that to the forefront and putting that, you know, out there like that until. Yeah, it wasn't. It's not my place to do that. You know what I'm saying? But since Conway put it out there in a verse, here we are talking about it. You know what I mean? But again, I'm hearing that they've had conversations and, you know, Benny was just here. I told him, I said, yo, I know there's talks and things like that, like, so hopefully they're in a better place. And, you know, getting back closer to the Griselda thing, because, you know, Griselda is a lot stronger when all three of those guys are collectively working. When you let west curate the movement and let him curate the music, I think it's undeniable. Like, we've seen it. You know what I mean? So we can speak to that. And it's something I think is missing too.

[Rory]

Yeah. And I know if they get back together, the natural thought would be, all right, we need the Derringer and Alchemist executive produced Griselda album, which I agree with. But I would like the version of Griselda that Jay did with Black Album. I want y' all to go to just. I want y' all to go to Swizz. I want y' all to do the Griselda album with some big producers.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

The core of it should be Derringer, no matter what. Cause Derringer's that guy. Like, he helped create that entire Griselda sound. And then obviously Al is out.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

But I want to hear the three of them get their actual shot with some of the bigger producers.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

As a fan, I feel like hip hop is kind of old. The 12 track Griselda album, for sure. That's all. No features either. Unless it's over Nas. I don't want to hear just the three of them.

[Mall]

Just them. Okay. I'm not mad at that.

[Rory]

Unless it's over Nas. I don't care.

[Mall]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rory]

Or three Stacks. That would be maybe the only other one, I would think.

[Mall]

Not mad at that. But it needs to happen.

[Rory]

We shall see. We're gonna take a quick, quick break. Speaking of producers, this is also a producer I would like to hear on that Griselda project. We have the legendary legendary Bink about to join us and get into some. We will see you after the break. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock bet. Mo, you know that's Florida sports.

[Bink]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Everyone knows that.

[Mall]

Yeah. The final time, it is

[Rory]

here.

[Mall]

Yes, sir.

[Rory]

The pressure. The pressure. I feel like the pressure's on me. As a fan, as a New Yorker. I don't. It's not even on Brunson. Yeah, it's me. I have to show up for.

[Mall]

My God, you carry the weight of the city.

[Rory]

Every possession can define a legacy.

[Mall]

That's a fact.

[Rory]

I'm. I am nervous, but I'm still betting on my guys. No matter what, I do think New York will end this drought that we have been going through forever. 53 years and we may start. We may start a dynasty run. Who knows?

[Mall]

Oh, you see multiple. You see multiple.

[Rory]

I think what the spurs did before is what we about to do. It's just ironic that the spurs came up here now.

[Mall]

Got you.

[Rory]

However you see it play out, head over to Hard Rock Bet and turn your picks into a payday. Because once the final buzzer sounds, that's it for hoops until next season. Unfortunately, it's going to make me sad, but. But shoot your shot while you can with same game parlays. Best way to get in on the action. Big team superstars, clutch performance, so many storylines to bet on. So why not stack them all into the same game parlay for a bigger payout.

[Mall]

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[Cal Penn]

Hey, everyone, it's Cal Penn, host of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast I'm Sitting Down. Wheaton, who played Gordie Lachance in stand by me 40 years ago and now narrates Stephen King's the Body, the novella that inspired it all. We talk about what it's like to return to a story that shaped his life, channeling his memories of River Phoenix in the recording booth. And why the friendships you have at 12 might be the most important ones you'll ever have.

[Rory]

I know.

[Cal Penn]

Gordie Lachance. I am Gordy Lachant.

[Rory]

Like, I mean, even when I was a little kid, I was Gordy Lachance when I didn't know it.

[Cal Penn]

Listen to Earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Commercial Voice (Autotrader/Cindy Crawford)]

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[Rory]

Visit Wells Fargo.com autographjourney Terms apply.

[Damaris]

Are you really buying a car online on Autotrader right now?

[Commercial Voice (Autotrader/Cindy Crawford)]

Really?

[Damaris]

At a playground?

[Commercial Voice (Autotrader/Cindy Crawford)]

Yeah, really.

[Rory]

Look at these listings from dealers.

[Damaris]

Wow, your search can really get that specific.

[Commercial Voice (Autotrader/Cindy Crawford)]

Really?

[Damaris]

And you just put in your info and boom, Cars in your budget.

[Commercial Voice (Autotrader/Cindy Crawford)]

Mom needs a second.

[Damaris]

Honey, you can really have it delivered.

[Commercial Voice (Autotrader/Cindy Crawford)]

Really? Or I can pick it up at the dealership. One sec, sweetie. Mommy's buying a car.

[Damaris]

Mommy, I think your kid is walking up the slide. Kyle. Again?

[Commercial Voice (Autotrader/Cindy Crawford)]

Really?

[Commercial Voice (Reese Witherspoon/Wells Fargo Ad)]

Autotrader. Buy your car online? Really?

[Rory]

And we're back. And we are back with one of my favorite producers of all time. Not only that, the creator of one of my favorite sounds of all time as well. We are joined by the legendary Bink. Welcome to the show, the humble monster.

[Bink]

Appreciate y'. All. What's cracking?

[Rory]

Appreciate you joining us.

[Mall]

What's up, man?

[Bink]

Oh, man, I'm up here with the guys.

[Mall]

Perfect. Perfect timing, man. Perfect timing for you to come to the show.

[Rory]

I bet you're in New York now. It's perfect.

[Mall]

Yeah, it's just. This is great. When Rory told me Bink was coming through, I was like, oh, shit. The hell Bing. Doing running around.

[Bink]

Hey, man, get to it.

[Mall]

Yeah, man.

[Bink]

Working a little bit.

[Mall]

Nah, don't say a little. See, Bing will say a little bit. And then a fucking smasher dropped next month. He had a number one song tomorrow. Just a little bit of work. I mean, it's working a little bit.

[Bink]

I mean. No, actually, the AZ stuff just dropped.

[Rory]

Yep.

[Mall]

Yeah. Salute to that.

[Rory]

Throw it out to him.

[Mall]

Salute to that. Yeah.

[Bink]

Called Fresh Water up there. I did.

[Mall]

Yeah. Now, for people that don't know you, bank, you've worked with everybody from Teddy Riley, Blackstreet, all the way to jay Z and 702 Maya. You've worked with a little bit of everybody in your years and experience in music and in the industry and dealing with artists today. 2026. How does bank feel about the state, the current state of music in the music business?

[Bink]

Horrible.

[Mall]

Horrible.

[Bink]

I. I just don't meet a lot of kids that's actually trying to innovate.

[Mall]

Okay.

[Bink]

Everybody is content with recycling.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Or redoing something that they love from before. So they, they. They stand right there. That's the problem with me. Like, nobody's in the house. Like, yo, I'm finna fuck these niggas up. Like some shit ain't nobody ever heard before. I just found some records from Japan. Like. Like, nobody's on that page no more. It's just everybody. Like, what's the vibe? Oh, that's the vibe. That's what we on. That's what we doing. That's the temperature now. Like, it's. Nobody's really trying to be over here.

[Rory]

There's kids that are doing that. I just don't like their innovation. Like, I do think that the Playboi Carti and his kids and that genre is trying to do that. I just don't like it. So, like, innovation is happening.

[Bink]

Right.

[Rory]

I just don't know if it's good.

[Bink]

Most people didn't like Bombs Over Baghdad.

[Rory]

Well, they're stupid, right?

[Bink]

But at the same time, there was

[Rory]

never a time that I was like, this is whack.

[Bink]

Right. But I'm just saying, you can't A and R A, Missy Elliott or Outkast Facts. You can't.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

You just gotta. What other records? Give me the records and we just gonna push it.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Cause you can't. You know what I mean? So it's like, there's nothing wrong with that. Not fitting in, sounding like something totally different.

[Mall]

That used to be the reward. It was a reward. Not fitting in and being totally different and not sounding like it used to Be bad if you sounded like somebody else, that part, you would get called out.

[Bink]

People are gauging where they are according to how much they sound like.

[Mall]

Right.

[Rory]

That's a fact.

[Bink]

Yeah. So that's a problem.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

So when you say nobody can really A and R Missy. You've worked with Missy multiple times. What is the process even like working with someone like that?

[Bink]

Missy ultimately is a producer.

[Mall]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Bink]

She knows what she wants, she knows how she wanted to go. And if you bring her something, she just. Her vision for it is like, she's vivid.

[Mall]

She already has it.

[Bink]

Take the bass out right there. Drop the drums. Like she's that.

[Mall]

Yes.

[Bink]

You know what I'm saying? So most people aren't that so. But the way Missy creates, she allows whatever the music is doing to take her wherever she's gonna go. Like, get your freak on. It's like, come on, what we talking about? You feel me? But she locked right in with that beat. She just locked right in. So her and Busta and people like that, like, they just great, Luda, they great at doing things like that. That's what I just miss. People wanting to be like, you know what? I don't wanna sound like Boss Mandeel. I don't want to sound like Glorilla. And now everybody's like, every A R now was like, oh, yeah, you gonna be Glorilla, right? You gonna be the. You see what I'm saying? And it's like, bro, what are we doing? I can't even tell who's singing what no more. You know what I'm saying? Like, the song sounds good, but everybody sound like Kalani to me.

[Mall]

Right?

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Bink]

So you know what I'm saying?

[Rory]

Yeah. I mean, so what do you think? Outside of the obvious talent difference, but in va, when Teddy Riley was down there, when it was you, Pharrell, Knotts, Missy, Timbaland, like, all of you guys in the same area. A small area at that. It's not like you guys were in New York City or la, where it's so spread out. It's a very small area. How did you guys deal with that and not sounding like each other? Especially with Teddy kind of leading that whole crew.

[Bink]

Virginia is very similar to Cali, meaning most people you meet in Cali ain't from Cali. They want everybody. So in Virginia, we're a military based

[Rory]

place, so Pushing Malice is from the Bronx.

[Bink]

You see what I'm saying? So it's like all these people come from all these different places. So the influence is coming from a Lot of different places.

[Mall]

Okay.

[Bink]

But my story is Timbaland and Missy and Mad Skills were the first to make it out of Virginia.

[Rory]

Shout out to Skills.

[Bink]

Right? Shout out to Skills. And there was another group called Yag Foo Front that came out way back. I forgot the name of the record, but they were like the first people I seen from Virginia. But a lot of people don't know. If you go back and listen to Diary with Mad Band, Jodeci, devontae.

[Mall]

Yeah, Bass.

[Bink]

But you'll hear Missy all in the interludes in the background. Like, she's writing all through that. And Tim programming drums through the whole album. So you.

[Mall]

A lot of people don't bring up Devontae when it come to that whole. That sound.

[Bink]

Devontae was kind of like a spin off a Teddy a little bit.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

You know what I mean? Like, the influence was Teddy, for sure. But he came with the church chords, you know what I'm saying? With that real soulful, churchy vibe. And just took the basement, that part. So me watching Missy, she was in a group called Fayzy at the time. And devontae came and snatched them up. Timbaland and Missy took them to Buffalo. So once I knew they went with Devontae. Now, keep in mind, Jodeci wasn't Jodeci yet. Like that. That crazy. But, yeah, when they came out, it was just like, damn, okay, some people from P Town, because portsmouth is like 10, 15 minutes from Norfolk. You know what I'm saying? Me and Knotts grew up five minutes apart, but we a lot. I'm like five, six years older than him. I went to school with his brothers and stuff. So we all within the same proximity. But you gotta understand that era of music. You can get shot at or punched in your face for copying somebody's shit. Like, you couldn't even ask a producer, yo, what's that sample like? Fuck you mean?

[Mall]

Like, I had to dig through that.

[Bink]

They would turn the beat off. Like, what you mean? Right? Because it's a sample. I can't own somebody else's music. So if you wanna go find this sample and do it yourself, you can. I don't own this shit. Right, Right. You see what I'm saying? So when you digging, you don't really want nobody knowing when you digging that, they can beat you to your own goddamn idea. Once it come out, they can put in the credits. It's fair game. They gonna see it, right? They gonna go down the rabbit hole. Oh, Curtis Mayfield. Oh, damn. I ain't know he type shit you know what I mean? But when you in the grassroots of it, you like, you trying to keep that shit quiet. Like I am anyway.

[Mall]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rory]

Where did that shift happen, you think? Like in sessions where it became okay to ask those type of questions, bro,

[Bink]

this generation, bro, it's like it's too much Kumbaya shit. It's like everybody is so in a rush to show you their process, not understanding that your process is your barcode. That's who you are. That's what makes you who you are. Like, if you gonna rain, tell everybody how to do your podcast. Like, your podcast. You know what I'm saying? Like I say, have you ever seen David Blaine show somebody how he cut somebody in half?

[Mall]

Right?

[Bink]

Fuck no.

[Mall]

Right?

[Bink]

Why would he. Now he's not special. Now everybody know how I do this shit. So I gotta keep certain things to keep the mystique for what I created to myself so I can protect my longevity. And you know what I'm saying? This generation thing, you're supposed to share everything. It's like, no, that's the edge in business. To have some information that the other company doesn't have to give you an edge. That's what it's about. You wanna be like, hey, yo, matter of fact, you ever heard about this new thing? Check this out. Like, you're not gonna. You're not gonna do that.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mall]

It's almost you. You're. You're considered a weirdo if you're trying to be private these days.

[Bink]

They don't understand what signature means.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Or exclusivity. They don't get it.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Everything is like microwave. Like, they want to know something. Like, if we're in the studio right now, we do a dope song, they want to put it on Instagram live right then.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Which is crazy.

[Bink]

It's nuts.

[Rory]

But I mean, how do you balance that with, like, when you collab with people like Teddy Riley, Stevie J or something? Like, how do you hide the sauce but still collaborate with people?

[Bink]

Well, see, it's in that type of setting, bro. It's a real trade off, you know what I'm saying? Because Teddy and Stevie J are musicians.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Not just producers. Like, they are phenomenal musicians.

[Rory]

Like Stevie Jeff, he can play everything.

[Bink]

Every instrument.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

He's a fucking child prodigy.

[Bink]

Right. It's different. So it's like we are exchanging energy as far as music. Like, I may come with a dope ass sample. He'd be like, oh, he heard a guitar. Like, oh, yeah. And we just feeding off each other. That's different. I don't need to be doing a record with four other producers that just sample like, what are you doing? Yeah, you feel me? So it's like, that's why I'm cool with. As long as I'm in the room with somebody that doesn't do what I do. We all compliment each other.

[Mall]

Do you prefer to work like when you building a sound and a beat, do you prefer to be in a room by yourself or do you prefer to actually be in there with an artist that you're working with and throw ideas back and forth?

[Bink]

It's both. Like initially, I love to pick the brain of the artist so I can understand really where you coming from. I don't want you to play me no records and say this is where I am. Cause I don't want to hear that. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? Well, most people want to hear it because they want to try to give you what they just heard. I don't want nothing to do with that. I just want to make sure I know where you trying to be as far as sonically. And then I could tempo wise. And I pay attention to tempo.

[Mall]

Okay.

[Bink]

If anything, I listen to an artist, I'm like, okay, you know what, he sounds great at like 86 beats per minute. Just listen to certain songs. Oh, you know, he really caught his thing on 100 beats per minute. So it's like you gotta really study who you working with. So you don't come with something they're not good at. Right. It's a long, drawn out session. Cause we trying to figure some shit out, you know what I'm saying? So it's like knowing how to be creative without deviating from who they are too much, you know what I'm saying? Just getting them to try something within themselves but just push them a little bit.

[Rory]

No, either. With the 25th anniversary of Blueprint coming up in, well, the show in, in July and you being kind of the source and nucleus of that, that sound in that album. What's your feelings of, of it being honored and coming into 25 years?

[Bink]

I mean, first of all, it's a blessing to even be honored, still relevant 25 years later, you know what I'm saying? That's what these kids don't get. Yeah, you've been getting a couple checks for three years, but holla at me and 10, you know what I'm saying? Where you at? 10. It's like I've seen a lot of people come and go in this game. Cause they don't they feel like they can't figure out where the music is going. The biggest rule to me in music is not to have my. Yeah, that's the biggest rule.

[Mall]

Don't have nothing left over you.

[Bink]

Yeah, no, no. The biggest rule in music is don't have none.

[Mall]

Got you.

[Bink]

Because you put yourself in a box. You know what I'm saying? Oh, I gotta sign or have to be like this. No, like who? Pharrell didn't know he was gonna do grinding with nothing in it with just drums, right? He had no idea he was gonna do that, right? But it happened. You know what I'm saying? So it's just like, you just gotta understand music is just a moment and just trying to capture that moment. That's why you see Tupac going off and doing the studio. Like, yo, man, do all that mixing shit later, right? Like n turning. You know what I'm saying? Like, we ain't got time for that. Like, bro, pull up the next beat, Turn the mic on. Let's go while we flowing, right? That's super duper important, bro. I think people understand that.

[Rory]

It's funny. Cause I've asked you a million questions on the phone. Just as a rap fan, I've never asked you this. What? September 11, 2001, when you know you have these joints on a Jay z album and 911 happens the same day that Blueprint is dropping. Cause I know you was on September 10, like, they about to hear some crazy shit.

[Bink]

Crazy shit.

[Rory]

I was such a huge part of this. And the planes hit the fucking.

[Bink]

It was a super leak out, though.

[Rory]

It was super leak out.

[Bink]

So nobody really knew the real sequence of the album. So everybody's calling like, yo, which one you do? I'm like, bitch, I don't even know which ones you listen to. Like, you know what I mean? So I was just waiting to hear like, yo. So the sequence changed a lot. But when I found out that Rulers Back was number one, it was the intro.

[Rory]

The intro, Yeah.

[Bink]

I don't think I've ever really been that excited about a drop of an album.

[Mall]

Still one of the greatest rap intros ever. Probably ever. I mean, dreams and nightmares might have something to say about that. But the rule is back. I mean, I remember when Blueprint dropped and. And that started with that. I remember everybody looking at each other like, yo, that's some of the hardest. Just those drums. And to this day, like, I always envisioned Jay coming out to just that, like a show. Starting the show with the ruler's back, which I think will Probably, I'm sure.

[Rory]

Yeah. It's gonna happen at Yankee Stadium.

[Mall]

Yeah, Yankee Stadium.

[Rory]

But I mean, it'll start and close with Banks Records, for sure.

[Mall]

When you were doing Rule is back when you. When you heard Jay later that. Did you know as soon as you heard it how special it was?

[Bink]

Yeah, but it still wasn't finished yet, so. I do so much in the mix.

[Mall]

Okay.

[Bink]

People don't understand. Rulers Bay almost didn't happen. How so? The day of the mix, I used to mix the sound on sound, which was like damn near back to Back to daddy's house.

[Mall]

Okay.

[Bink]

And I actually did the beat to Rulers back in daddy's house.

[Mall]

Okay.

[Bink]

I was using Puff records. I used to have just a bunch of records in the studio in the MIDI room. So I just went through the MIDI room and just pulled that record out one day and did the beat. And then the day I mixed it, which was probably like a year and a half later, after I did the beat, I put the disc in the MP and it said, data corrupted. So I had lost the whole beat. So just to happen, my father was in town, we had to walk over floppy disks. Yeah, floppy disks.

[Rory]

Remember floppy disks?

[Bink]

Yeah. So I had to walk to daddy's house, find the record, bring it back to sound on sound and redo the whole. Redo the whole memory and then mix it.

[Mall]

Oh, my God.

[Bink]

That was a all nighter. And the crazy shit was hip hop came over. He had bought some smoke because he used to always come through the sessions. We blow it down and shit.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

And I was just. When I put the disc in, they kept saying corrupted. So I was just like not saying that. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like we ain't got no more mixes to check. I'm gonna go check on some more mix

[Damaris]

my mind.

[Bink]

I'm like, oh, what the am I feeling? But I'm not gonna tell us. I'm not losing this placement. I don't give a what I gotta

[Mall]

do, you know what I'm saying?

[Rory]

And his mama's love me done already or.

[Bink]

No, not yet.

[Rory]

Okay, gotcha.

[Bink]

But it took me about three hours to find that record at D's house, bro. I want by the time I finished.

[Rory]

I'm not gonna ask what sample it is, cuz I want to.

[Bink]

No, no, it was, it was, it was. I think Margie Joseph if the name of the song. And it took me about three hours. Cause it's just a whole bunch of random records in Daddy's house. I had to go through all those fucking records and I Found it. And brother, best friend of my life, I came back and I redid the whole shit.

[Mall]

All right? So, yeah, the rule is back is the greatest rap intro ever. Because I don't think they had that story about dreams of nightmares. I don't think they lost it and then had to do it all over again. Like, I don't. That just does not matter.

[Rory]

So was Hop there when you redid it? And he picked that for Jay?

[Bink]

I got him out of there. He wanted to start checking on other mixes. They making their rounds, everybody mixing. You know what I'm saying? So they just going through, listening to mixes. So I'm like, yeah, go check out somebody else. Make sure I be it.

[Rory]

So once you redid it, did Jay hear it first or Hop hear it first?

[Bink]

They heard it together.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Bink]

I believe you know what I'm saying? I don't know if Jay came back to the studio. I know Hop came. No, Jay heard it later. Hop came back to the studio, heard it and sound on sound, then took it to Jay. But Jay always allowed me. Me to do me. He never tried to micromanage.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Mixing the record. He got so many artists. Be like, yo, don't touch. Like, yo, I love how it is. And he. Jay like, yo, do you?

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Until I hear something that bothers me, I'm not saying nothing. Yeah, and I appreciate that.

[Rory]

Yeah. I mean, I'm the sound you created off the Dynasty album. Before that, I could see why Jay was like, well, just leave him alone. We're cool.

[Bink]

It started with Beans. Beans was the first person to notice me, my music. Because remember the Hard Not Life tour when they had. They was in the back of this van with the jail jumpers on, and they, you know, they come together. They wanted somebody to score it. So Jay Brown was managing me at the time, and he convinced him and letting me do it. Going Enterprise Studios in la, score the joint, do a beat to his sound effects, send it to him. They like, yo, it's a go. This is dope. So they use it for the show. That was the intro to the show. Hard on Life Tour.

[Rory]

Okay, okay.

[Bink]

Beans heard the beat like, yo, what's this? He like, no, I need. I need this. So he took the beat and he did rap for my niggas. That's how we got rid for my niggas. That's the beat from the Holland Life Tour intro, actually. And then after that, we did Raw and Uncut. And that's when I got the attention to Jay for real.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Bink]

Because that's he jumped on that.

[Rory]

So between 1900, hustler, you, me, him, and her, what was the first from Dynasty that you did with everybody, bruh?

[Bink]

You, me, him, and her. Baseline, I was the first. First of all, I was the first.

[Rory]

One of the craziest fucking beasts ever.

[Bink]

I was the first person to ever record in baseline.

[Rory]

That's wow.

[Bink]

Period. I gave them their first check. Like, you can go to somebody restaurant, they got a dollar on the wall. I gave them their first PO from Electric Records for like 20 grand for 30 days. And I was working with Missy. I was doing Mocha. She had an artist named Mocha at the time.

[Mall]

Yeah. Yep.

[Bink]

I was in B roll room. A room wasn't finished yet. They were still finished in the A room. And eventually A room got finished. So I'm in the B room doing my thing, and that beat is playing I got it loud as. And I turn around. Jay is in the room, and he's walking. When you get him doing that shit, it's over.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

When he start rapping to himself, it's a rap. So I turn the beat up like, yo, don't turn it off. Turn it back on. He like, ooh, bring this in the A room, playboy. And walked out.

[Damaris]

Out.

[Bink]

I mean, imagine it was like, this. This is full, girl. I say like. Like, you heard the man saying, take that two inch off, brother, and let's get to this A room the we talking about. You know what I'm saying?

[Mall]

So this is for who N, though. She ain't here nothing.

[Bink]

He was. He went in there for like, maybe an hour, hour, and then. And laid it out. Laid the latest verse down, and it stayed with just his verse for probably about two months. And then everybody else added their verses.

[Rory]

Yeah, yeah, I want to pull the room. Who has the best verse on 1900 Hustler. We can start with Mo. I know my answer, and it may not be the popular one.

[Mall]

I'mma go beans.

[Rory]

Okay, okay.

[Mall]

I'mma go beat.

[Rory]

You made the beat.

[Bink]

I'mma go young free.

[Rory]

TS wasn't born. They wasn't born. I think Bleak had the best verse on that in that song. Bleak has my favorite verse on 1 900. The way his tone comes in on that.

[Bink]

That.

[Rory]

That's probably my favorite Bleak verse ever.

[Bink]

Yeah, that was a real, like.

[Rory]

Bleak was a standout on that to me. Like, oh, Bleak could rap. Rap.

[Bink]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Bean's verse is crazy on that, though.

[Rory]

But you expected that verse on.

[Bink]

On that. Beans just did the. The talking in between.

[Rory]

Yeah, no, Beans is. Is. Is the Interlude.

[Bink]

There's no ver.

[Rory]

Yeah, it's.

[Mall]

It's.

[Bink]

It's J.

[Rory]

Bleak. And Freeway.

[Bink]

And Freeway.

[Mall]

Oh, so it might be Freeway.

[Rory]

Free, free, free. One nuts, don't get me wrong, but I really think.

[Mall]

First, watch what you say out your mouth. Talking in the presence of hustle.

[Bink]

He wasn't even supposed to be on that RA record. Yeah, he wasn't supposed to be.

[Rory]

It was just supposed to be Jay and Bleak.

[Bink]

No, the crazy was they had to beat.

[Mall]

Nah. J verse was crazy, though.

[Bink]

Yeah. Like, the concept alone was just dope.

[Mall]

Yeah. Now that I'm really, like, going through, like, the verses, like, nah, Jay might have had the best verse on that.

[Bink]

They had the beat for months.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

But couldn't figure out how to approach it. So they. But they was very adamant about. Yo, don't sell it. Like, we want it, like, for sure. So, like, for months and months. So find depth to him. Like, listen, bro, bro, the album gotta be turned in Monday. I don't give a fuck what y' all got going on. You know what I mean? So it was just one night. Everybody's at the studio. Like, everybody. He's like, meeting of the minds. We gotta get this done now. And then Beans came up with the concept, and then everybody just started building to it. And everybody did their verses simultaneously that night. And it was like, after Bleak and Jay did they verse, they like, now, who else gonna get what you got? Young Free. He was like, I got something.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

He was like. Wasn't playing, though. Like, he literally went in there and one take, Jake did and was like, wow.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Yeah. And that's what.

[Mall]

Yeah, Free Virtual was crazy on it. That's what that style, his tone, everything.

[Rory]

And it's top 10 posse cut. Oh, yeah.

[Mall]

Without a doubt.

[Rory]

For sure. I know you talked about Ruler's back and how that came together. All I Need and Mama Loves Me. What. What was the process? Because I. Jay has always said that they did that in, like, a week.

[Bink]

I'm glad you asked me that, because this whole All I need conversation has been retarded for no reason for over 20 years. I had a group called 9 Brigade signing electric Records back in the day. I cut All I Need on them first, but I also cut Lights, Camera, Action beat on them as well.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Bink]

Those were the two.

[Rory]

That's wild. Yeah. I never knew the Lights, Camera, Action.

[Bink]

Right. Both of those records were their records.

[Rory]

Yes.

[Bink]

But my star guy was murdered the week I was mixing. Now we got a chance to come out. The day I played hip hop all I need. The first time he tried to buy it from me from day one. And I was like, no, I need this for my group. So I was like, every time you ask me for it, it lets me know I need to keep it. That's exactly what my words told him. Cause he was very Adam, like, yo, yo, what's up with that record? And I was like, nah. No. So when that shit happened, like, maybe a year and a half later, I was like, you know, we can probably do something now. But I gave the two guys that was in the group 7% apiece of publishing Sona on the Love.

[Mall]

Oh. I mean, that's.

[Bink]

Yeah.

[Rory]

And no disrespect to. Was it Oschino that was telling that story about how it was throwing. I thought that was odd. Cause the same group, minus Rest in Peace, did an interview, and they was like, nah, Jay, they gave us the pub on it. Like, what you talking about? Somebody stole a record.

[Mall]

Like.

[Bink]

Like, how can he just take your record?

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Like, how does that happen?

[Mall]

Right?

[Bink]

You know what I'm saying? So. But it's been because the crazy was when the shit first happened, somebody called me on my phone, like, seven in the morning, 20 years ago, accusing me of stealing their record. It from now, come to find out, this motherfucker's calling me from the radio station.

[Rory]

Morning radio 7am yo, rolling out the bed.

[Bink]

What the. Is going on? Yeah, bro. And I. You know, and I'm like, yo, this is nuts. I'm like, yo, I did not have to include those guys. Right?

[Mall]

That's a fact.

[Bink]

I could have just sold the beat and kept it pushing.

[Mall]

I didn't have to do that. Yeah, but giving them the pub was a way of, like. I know we was kind of attached to this record, you know, was. Let me make this right.

[Bink]

Exactly.

[Mall]

At least y' all are easy. Eat off of it. Like. Yeah, so I understand that.

[Bink]

And then for you to let this get out of hand this long is nuts. Cause you could have nipped this in the bud a long time ago yourself.

[Rory]

Yeah, yeah. No, I thought that was when Oskino said that, I went and looked and found the group saying that never happened. So I was confused by that entire thing.

[Bink]

But the group wasn't denying it. That's what gave it life.

[Rory]

Got it. Okay.

[Bink]

They could have set the record straight a long time ago, but clickbait is a hell of a drug. You know what I'm saying? So it's like they just kept that shit going for no reason. Season and it just kept resurfacing for something. I just like, why does this keep coming up? Like, bro, I get y' all still eating up this record 20 something years later. Like, what are you talking about?

[Mall]

Right?

[Rory]

And again, no disrespect to Skino. Like, you wouldn't know about that. That, would you? Not on the song. Like, why would you know about the paperwork?

[Bink]

I don't. Everybody knew about the paperwork, apparently.

[Rory]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mall]

I mean, and it's like, where everybody know everything.

[Bink]

Everybody knew about the paperwork but me. That part.

[Rory]

Mama Loves Me, I feel like was probably since Volume one, like, one of the more vulnerable Jay outros. What? What? Were you there for the session when he did Mama Loves Me?

[Bink]

See, it's very rare that you. You catch Jay do a verse because he. When he go in, he just go in the morning, a lot of times, just knock shit out.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Like, you been game to beat type of thing. But I did a lot of stuff to the record after he finished. Like, kitchen table joint. That's me beating on the organ bench, the studio. Like, I'm in the school. Because that's how I was in school. Like, literally, that was my title in school. Nobody's gonna freestyle without me beating on the table. They would come get me from wherever I was in the school. Like, yo, somebody about to battle. Yo, come on. Like, okay, let's go.

[Mall]

Yeah, that's hard.

[Rory]

Devil in a new dress. I know the story, but how. How did that entire thing come together with my be able to dark, twisted fantasy, him being in Hawaii, doing everything? Obviously, you and Ye go back to the late 90s.

[Bink]

Listen, bro, I first met Ye, Ye always been a huge dreamer. I gotta give him that. Like, so he made me be a firm believer in just. Just speaking things to the universe. I think that's real. I really think that's some real shit. Because Jay had big plans for himself early, you know what I'm saying? And most people don't think that big at all. When you hear people thinking that big, they sound retarded. They sound crazy. Like, yo, this dude is nuts. But that's a dope way to be. You know what I'm saying? But he used to, you know, he caught the bus to my crib in Jersey and ran for me and played me some beats. And that was the first time I heard with a producer. I was, like, actually impressed about how they was rapping.

[Mall]

Like, wow.

[Bink]

Like, this dude can actually rap.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

You know what I'm saying? So he used to ask me a lot of, you know, advices as far as like, add to his music and certain beats. So that's why I ended up with my guitar player on Bonnie and Clyde. And you know what I'm saying, like, that all falls down same. That's my guitar player that I put on and, you know, my engineer.

[Rory]

Like that.

[Bink]

So you see, ain't no asking for, like, a little guidance and shit early on, but his. His vision has always been his vision, you know what I'm saying? It wouldn't be a blueprint without ye because Jay won the studio on a Saturday with a Kanye Beat cd, did five songs. Blueprint was born. Then they just started adding other records to it.

[Mall]

Yeah, I remember the first time I was at baseline and met Kanye. I always tell the story. It's just his style. His fashion was just so different from how everybody else really had.

[Bink]

Preppy.

[Mall]

Yeah. And then he had. He was wearing motorcycle leather jackets and rango boots and jeans. And, you know, he was like in the. In the. In the. In the front room, in the pool room. And we in the back and we listening to beats. I think State Property was probably recording some or Beans was recording some, and we listened to them there. Who that? Like, yo, that's homie in the front. Like, that's was Durango's on with the right with Durango's on. Like, that's it. They're like, yeah, now he from Chicago. He just moved out here. And then I remember we all went in the front. It was like, yo, that is all. He was like, yo, good looking. And then that's Kanye. Like, I. I vividly remember that moment, like, because it was like, I just thought this was a guy. I thought he worked at baseline. Like, he was somebody that just worked at the studio.

[Bink]

No, he was.

[Mall]

And it was like, nah, that's all his. They playing back there. I was like, what?

[Rory]

Like, icon chilling.

[Mall]

Yeah, he did. But he aesthetically how everybody else looked. That was at baseline.

[Rory]

And that was, you know, like, might have been a runner to go get food.

[Mall]

It looked like he just. He, like, he literally worked at the studio. And they was like, nah, that's him making all this shit. And I was like, damn. Like, yo, he's dope. And they was like, and he raps.

[Bink]

Yeah, that part. But it was always a mutual respect between the two of us. I always respect what he had. I love. I love anybody that have their own thing. Yeah, I can't stand biters they annoy

[Mall]

the out me Authenticity.

[Bink]

I can't stand a copycat get the fuck around me. Like, I don't even want you in my session.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Real shit.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Cause they will take your shit. It's not. It's not a question question. That's when they gonna take it.

[Mall]

Not if they gonna take it. When they gonna take it?

[Bink]

Yeah, they gonna ask. They hear a good idea in your spot. Oh, they gonna get you. Yeah, absolutely. Then see, like, what's up?

[Mall]

Yeah, like, song that snake boy just heard. What you mean, you heard that in my session?

[Bink]

Like, come on, brother.

[Rory]

Yeah, when. When you sent Kanye that pack that had Devil in New dress in it. How many did you send?

[Bink]

Five.

[Rory]

Five?

[Bink]

I never seen more than five.

[Rory]

Okay. Did any of those five make it? I'm sorry. Any of those four make it elsewhere?

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Other one went to John Legend, who we think we are.

[Rory]

Okay. Oh, okay, Here.

[Bink]

Other one went to Fat Joe, Pride and Joy.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Bink]

Which was supposed to be Push, a single.

[Rory]

Interesting. Wow. Yeah. Push would have sounded crazy on that.

[Bink]

Supposed to be a single. It wouldn't. Kanye wouldn't have been on Pride and Joy had it not been for me.

[Rory]

He. Yeah, it was his shit first.

[Bink]

Yeah. Had it not been for me, Fat Joe and the Kanye situation would have never happened. Because when they called, I'm like, yo, that beat beat is gone. They like, what you mean? I'm like, bro, I had this beat for two years. You know it's gonna be the singer. You should have called me and said something.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

I said, this Gone. Like, who got it? I'm like, fat Joe got it. Call and see if you want to know if you want to sell it. I said, all right, cool. So called Fat Joe, like, yo, tell him give me a verse, and I sell it. I told ye and Jay like, yeah, I'm cool.

[Mall]

I'm cool. I ain't said no nothing.

[Bink]

I'm cool. He like, yo, cool. So I'm like, all right. So I guess they was still playing the Push, a record studio. They called me back again like, yo, man, we need that record back, man.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Like, listen, bro, I'm tired of being in the middle, so I'm gonna hook you up with my man Macho. Macho was Fat Joe Guy at the time. And I said, I'm gonna just put y' all together. So the agreement was they gonna meet up whoever got the best version. That's the version they gonna go with. So that's how I pushing them, end up on a remix and all that type of shit.

[Mall]

Oh, okay.

[Bink]

So that's how that whole thing went down.

[Rory]

That makes sense. Okay, okay, I can separate.

[Bink]

Oh, and Jay Z interview was up there for Hit Boy.

[Rory]

Hitboy. Hit Boy. Shit, yeah, that's yo. Yeah, you smoked that shit. And I love that Hit Boy said Bink on the beat to begin with. Cause we all would assume that was a Hit Boy beat at the time. Yeah, that was a solid thing that he did.

[Bink]

Did his first one off the porch.

[Rory]

Oh, yeah. But we was all still like, oh, Hit Boy about to be Kanye. He could rap this way.

[Bink]

He just.

[Rory]

And he's. And mind you, I think Hit Boy's gotten better as, like, hitboy is nice.

[Bink]

He just hit me other night. He was like, yo, I got a beat from you in 2011. Is it still available? I'm like, it actually was, though.

[Mall]

I was like, lucky you.

[Bink]

Yeah, she's still there.

[Rory]

I can separate goofy shit from music because I care too much about music. Santorini, Grease, Scientology. Rather you than me is one of my favorite Ross albums. And I still feel like even I. Even though I think Ross is a goofy human being. A joint album. I. I've said either Justice League or Bink needs to do the joint Ross album. Did the relationship with Ross come from Devil in a new Dress and in that whole Kanye era, or y' all had a relationship before?

[Bink]

I knew Ross, before Ross was Ross.

[Rory]

Okay.

[Bink]

Ross was a starring artist when he

[Rory]

was a correctional officer.

[Bink]

He was a starring artist on Slip N Slide Records. You know what I'm saying? I don't think they had any intentions on putting him out at all. You know what I mean? He was doing a lot of writing for Trina at the time. So I was working with Angie Martinez. We flew out to Miami to work with her, and we hired Ross to write for Angie. So while I'm working with Angie, I'm like, dude, this dope. Like, he could really. You would think a chick wrote this shit. Like, he was really, like, killing it. So I'm like, yo, he's gay. Like that. So again, I gave him my info and, you know, we kind of exchanged numbers from there. And after that situation, he came out to Jersey. Him and Gunplay drove him out crib from Miami twice. And they was going to see French. I think Cocaine Cowboys was going at that time. Dvd.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Bink]

And yeah, we did like nine records, bro. And then he called me with hustling. And I remember calling the program director in Virginia on three way and sending to him email that same conversation. They blasted his record off. From that day on, he got a record there and never called me that again. He did a whole album called.

[Rory]

So then how did y' all reconnect to do Rather you than me.

[Bink]

After years of the same. But he finally came back, and that's the first time I actually sat in with him. Like, I stayed his crib in Atlanta for, like, weeks and curate that. That's why it sound like it sounded.

[Rory]

I mean, it's. It's one of my favorite Ross albums by. By far. That is a classic album to me.

[Bink]

That's why it came out like it came out. But he took off some records, bro. That was insane. That I did. Which ended up going to Fabless, which joints Too late. It's a record I did with fabric.

[Rory]

Okay. Yeah, I know. Too late.

[Bink]

Which was the same beat that Biggs was talking about that Jay had for 444.

[Rory]

Wait, so Jay had that for 444? That's too late. Interesting.

[Bink]

And Ross did a record called Nice Willio.

[Rory]

Gotcha.

[Cal Penn]

Hey, everyone, it's Cal Penn. I'm the host of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project, Hail Mary Massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth.

[Mall]

I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections. And it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no. At this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that deeply, emotionally affected me, and I left it on the mic. That's great because it served the story. People will say, like, oh, my God, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah, dude, me too.

[Cal Penn]

Listen to Irsay the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Commercial Voice (Autotrader/Cindy Crawford)]

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford, and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but, like, I never liked being told, oh, wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother saying that?

[Bink]

That.

[Commercial Voice (Autotrader/Cindy Crawford)]

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[Rory]

Visit wells fargo.com autographjourney Terms apply.

[Damaris]

If you've been sitting on a business idea for a while, consider this your sign to do something with with it. You can even make it official today by creating a website with WIX Harmony. Just tell WIX Harmony what you want and it'll create the whole website for you, business features included. But don't worry, you can still change anything by hand. It's your website, your call. Try [e-mail] harmony that's wix.com harmony.

[Mall]

All right.

[Rory]

With that said, I don't know if Jay is working on music at all. I can only speculate. Mall does hold things down. I really don't know. Would you want to work with Jay again or just that whole team at this point? Because I think. I think what he did with no ID was incredible. And I think Jay just being around the early sounds makes the most sense for hip hop to age the way it should age with somebody at his. Where he's at in his career. Would you sit with Jay and. And do something now?

[Bink]

Right.

[Mall]

Okay.

[Rory]

You know I love you to death. I never know what type. What type of time you're on with everybody over there. I'm a. I'm a fan.

[Bink]

Let me tell you. Let me set the record straight with that, too. I don't have the energy to just hate people. If I don't like you, you did something to earn me not to like you.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Bink]

I ain't got time just not be liking people who the. I don't think about you enough to even allow that you have that type of space in my head. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, I don't really give a about you, but if I don't like you, you done something or that person did something. Okay. And every time I've told somebody somebody was a piece of shit, they always come back and be like, you was right. OG Seasoned people always come off to be what you call disgruntled. That's what they always say. You sing, but you've been through everything. Yeah, it's like a seasoned linebacker. You've seen every play. I see the play developing now. I was like, bro, I'm. Come on, bro. Really? You really gonna try to give me a senior session? Don't pay me. Like, come on.

[Rory]

I get it.

[Bink]

No.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

You know what I'm saying? Like, that type of shit. And that's what annoys people, because when you're about your business and you set boundaries, people don't like when you set boundaries, bro. Yeah, they hate that.

[Rory]

That's a fact. It's fat. What would you think of Jay's freestyle at the Roost Picnic? As someone that was around for some of the stuff that he was addressing to the people that he was addressing?

[Bink]

I mean, he hit him with the summer jam. It's the same. Jay gonna. He's not gonna give you a whole song, but he'd absolutely give you a gumbo verse and throw everybody in that suit or Pat at the same time.

[Mall]

I'm address everything at one time.

[Bink]

One time. Get you out of here. Yeah, yeah. That's classic J.

[Rory]

How have you felt about the Jay and Dame? I don't want to say back and forth because Jay only said half a line in that, but Dame, just being on all these interviews the past few years, and I'm asking because you was there, I wasn't there. Between their relationship and that fallout, unfortunately

[Bink]

for me, I built a studio in my crib so I wouldn't even have to be in the mix like that.

[Mall]

I get it, you dig?

[Bink]

So I missed out on a lot of that, thank God. You know what I'm saying? But it's unfortunate to see somebody to build something that big and that amazing, but can't keep it together because obviously it's like Voltron ain't Voltron. All the pieces, you know what I'm saying? And Dame, whether you like him, love him, hate him, whatever you want to say about him, he know what the fuck he doing. You can't make a Rockefeller label like that and not know what you're doing.

[Rory]

Oh, I agree. No, I agree with that.

[Bink]

You know what I'm saying? You may not like him. You may like how he does it.

[Rory]

Episode. I've been critical of Dane for the first time, but, nah, you can't do that without Dane.

[Bink]

You can't take that from him. You know what I'm saying?

[Rory]

Hell, no.

[Mall]

Regardless of how you and nobody ever has, like, even in Jay's rock and roll induction, he thank Dane.

[Rory]

He said, even though we've had our differences, bro, we could never do this shit without you.

[Mall]

Like, yeah, you Can't. You can't. You can't help that.

[Rory]

I don't think anyone would ever disagree. Dispute that.

[Mall]

No.

[Rory]

That that would happen without Dane.

[Bink]

But that's the very thing people hold on to to discredit him.

[Mall]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bink]

That's what I see. It's like people hold on to his character flaws, allegedly, to keep the hate going for him. But you can't take history from none of us, whether you like it or love it. Like, we did it. It was done. You can't change it.

[Mall]

Right.

[Bink]

You know what I mean? Type shit.

[Rory]

Nah, I hear that. I mean, how do you even look at that era and how everything has changed? Even down to, like, the Rockefeller tree where everything is falling? Even when your brother did the shirts that had everybody through everything. Do you look at that and kind of feel like y' all defined everything and specifically even 01. Because that. That tree and that sound that you.

[Mall]

Yay.

[Rory]

And I also say just that thing that, like, that changed that tree. When you even get down to Sean, good music, everything. I think everything falls on y' all snares. At the end of the day, it's the music, like, as much as much as it's. It's Jay Biggs dame at the top of that tree. Because I'm a nerd. I would have liked at least the back of the shirt to have the producers like, I feel like a lot of y'. All. Y' all sound changed. Even what Rihanna did. Like, Rihanna's on that tree. But if you go through anti, I could find Bink snares in anti.

[Damaris]

Yeah.

[Bink]

I mean, working with the number one artist is a blessing and a curse. Because what it does is it makes everybody gun for yourself. Yeah. The whole producer for Drake dress and believe every producer across the country is trying to sound like you. That's just how it goes. You know what I'm saying? But at least the producer can know that he's doing that. That's the problem. Now these kids are claiming things to be theirs that belongs to somebody else. You can't take somebody else's signature, anything and make a choice. It doesn't work like that. You know what I'm saying? Once you take that signature, you automatically gonna sound like them. That's what made you love them.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Bink]

You know what I'm saying? So why would you take the very thing that made you love him, that made him stick out, and then you can make that yours and that people be like, oh, that sound like. Like. Cause when boss Mandelo came on Bro.

[Rory]

Yeah, it was.

[Bink]

It was a moment. It was different. It changed up the palette for the palette for a minute. Like, I was like, thank God. Oh, finally. Somebody trying something different than Glorilla. Saying that's how I felt about Glorilla. Like, oh, my God, thank you. Somebody trying some shit. You know what I'm saying? It's just. Everybody's just on copy paste.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Who's some of the producers that you. I have Hit Boy as one of the top four producers right now. To me, I think that his, you know, his range, the type of artist that he can produce for and the different sounds that he can deliver to each artist. He's one of my all time favorites. But who are some of the guys that you listen to now? You like? I like what he's doing.

[Damaris]

Doing.

[Bink]

It's this. This kid that produced on Lucky Days

[Rory]

album, Dope as Deo.

[Bink]

He did. That's you.

[Rory]

Dimow is. Is one of. One of the greatest producers, period. One of them. He also. He. He works with Bruno as well. But I mean, he. He, He. He started. Well, not started with Lucky, but he's been working with Lucky since inception. But yeah, D Mild works with Bruno. D is. Is.

[Bink]

He gets it.

[Rory]

No, he's one of them. Like, he gets it.

[Bink]

You know what I'm saying? So I love people like that with that type of skill set.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

You know what I'm saying? I like London on the track too.

[Rory]

London is fire.

[Bink]

I like London.

[Rory]

And no disrespect to Summer whatsoever, I like her last album. But you see the difference. And I know there's personal stuff there because they dated with it, but you could just see the difference when London is. And I mean that in a good way towards both of them.

[Bink]

Think about this, bro. Any producer, artist, duo you can name, don't fuck with each other today.

[Mall]

Producer are not Eclipse, Pharrell.

[Bink]

That's you. How many did you think of, though, before you said that? And they took a break? Break?

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

It was a super hiatus with them. Not saying it was beef, but it was a big, big break.

[Rory]

Yeah, but I don't know, is that. Is that just based off being around somebody for 30 years and you just start to get.

[Bink]

No, what happened?

[Rory]

I do that with my family for some reason, bro.

[Bink]

Artists come out, they're super hungry in the beginning and very show you a lot of gratitude. But once the stardom comes in, the fame comes in. Now it's you. I did this. So they think they can go to anybody and get the chemistry they was getting. With the person that gave them the special shit, and you can't do it. You get close, but you. That there's a reason why y' all did what y' all did. But even, like, that's why I love, bro. Listen, I. I love Future just based on how he does Metro, bro. That's some rare to have a rapper. Rapper back you in that way. Come on, bro. Yeah, they not gonna do. It's. The jealousy is too real. I promise you. You've never seen that type of support as a. Oh, he went on tour with Metro as a artist, bro.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

He didn't fight him one bit. Like, bro, I got you. Whatever you. You trying to do, they don't. They don't. That is rare. Yeah, that is that you right? The love is rarely reciprocated. You know what I'm saying? And Future is special. I, like, tilt my head. Future tilt my head to you. Like, you are a model citizen for artists when it comes to producer relations.

[Rory]

And I'm glad you brought that up, because he did the same thing with Esco, his dj, who's a great producer. Future and Esco is just as good as Future in Metro if you get down to the B stuff and Gucci. Why am I blanking the producer?

[Bink]

Oh, yeah. From. Yeah.

[Rory]

Part of my. My northern brain right now. Like, yeah, they've always stuck that way. I don't know. But, like, I feel like even, like, with Tribe, I don't know. Q. Tip and Fife went to middle school together. Like, sometimes I think it's just like family at the end of the day.

[Bink]

But according to the documentary, it was like, rest in peace to fight. But it was like Fife wanted to have all this input on. On the curating of the album. Like, this is. That's not what you've been doing. Right. So now I suppose just let you do that. Like, bro, I've curated Midnight Marauders. Yeah, chill out. You gotta.

[Rory]

You know, but also. And recipes to Fife, even before Fife passed. But Jerobi Tip, Fife, Ali, all them. Even after that. They blame that on Michael Rappaport. Like, the way he edited that whole shit. Yeah, yeah. Of course they had discrepancies, but the way that shit was edited looked like they really hated each other.

[Bink]

Yeah.

[Rory]

And it was like, nah, that's not really what it is at all. It's just how they, like, put the edit together.

[Bink]

That's that bullshit. Michael Rappaport do better.

[Mall]

I'm happy. I'm happy that Tricky trick. Tricky and the Dream got back together for this Next project.

[Bink]

See what I'm saying?

[Mall]

Yeah. That was so. I was so happy to hear that.

[Bink]

What happens is they go. They leave you and think they could do with anybody. Then you gotta get all these L's.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Just to figure out, man, damn. Let me call my.

[Mall]

Let's go back to that nuclear.

[Bink]

Let me just go back to my guy.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Let me fix this.

[Damaris]

That.

[Mall]

Yeah. It's a real thing, though, like, you know, because I think we. We come to even with how you said with Summer in London, obviously, you know, they had personal things that caused that, you know, to split. But, like, Summer's first album was so incredible, and obviously London's DNA is a major part of that. So now people are searching for that.

[Rory]

The second album, too. They broke up, but he still did the whole album when they broke.

[Mall]

Exactly. So people are still searching for that vibe and that energy and anything that she does, moving.

[Bink]

So someone, you need to go ahead and tell all your new future boyfriends, listen, regardless of me and you doing London is doing my music.

[Mall]

Yeah, we should call.

[Rory]

We should just call co parenting.

[Mall]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

[Bink]

London's in collabing.

[Rory]

Yeah, that's.

[Mall]

That's what we doing.

[Bink]

Collabing. We collabing for sure thing.

[Rory]

Before we let you go, do you have any Aaliyah stories?

[Mall]

Aaliyah?

[Bink]

Oh, man, I did one record with a Leah with Missy called Been around the World, and it never came out. But, man, when I tell you she was.

[Rory]

You can find it on YouTube, huh? I think you can find it on YouTube.

[Bink]

For real? Yeah, I'm gonna look for that. But she was a. She was a beautiful soul, bro.

[Mall]

Yes, indeed.

[Bink]

Like, real. A lot of people don't know. Free was supposed to be on that plane, too. That was my girl at the time. Yeah, she was supposed to be on the plane. She asked Free to go, and she didn't go last minute. But her energy was just so crazy, man. She was just an angel. Like, real shit. Good people, man. It killed everybody. I remember when it happened, the two ways were out, and I think we were in Anaheim doing something. Remember I opened my two way and I seen it and I just closed. Used it. And I just looked around the room and I just thought I seen everybody, like, you know, everybody, like, looking down.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Bink]

I was like, ah, yeah, it's real. So that. That's a bad, bad time in music.

[Mall]

Yeah. That was horrible. That was tough. That was. We was in. Spoke about this before. We was in the Hamptons at the house that they. That my brother and Dame and them used to have every summer. And it was crazy because when we was there, it was like Aaliyah was there the weekend or two weekends before that with Dane, so some of her sneakers was there, toiletries, lotions, and everything was in the room. So it was like, you know, when we got that call, that was, you know. Yeah, that was. That was one of the craziest, eeriest times ever for sure. The crazy, it kind of knocked the air out of everybody.

[Bink]

I might have been the only nigga that used to joke Dane back. Back in the day.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Yeah. And the last time I seen Dane, he was him and Aaliyah together. Me and Free was together. And it was a studio downtown. And it was like, yo, I ain't gonna joke you, cuz. You with your girl, man. You with your girl.

[Mall]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bink]

Same at stake right there.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

But, yeah, it was like, it was a great time. We had a great ball in the studio back.

[Mall]

Yeah, beautiful, man.

[Rory]

I enjoy this. This peaceful spirit that you have.

[Mall]

Right? Yeah, man.

[Rory]

No, I know. I think it's great. Great. Hey, man, people have a mis. Misconstrued of who you are, cuz. You and I speak a lot. And every time people bring you up on the Internet, I'm like, that's not who Bink is whatsoever.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

So I'm happy that I'm that uncle

[Bink]

to tell you what it is. If you don't want to know, don't ask me. Right.

[Mall]

That's ain't nothing wrong with that.

[Bink]

Don't ask me if you really don't want to know.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

You know what I'm saying? But I'm not going to, you know, pussyfoot around for you to make you feel comfortable. Like, no, I'm gonna give it to you. But other than that, I stay in my lane. I stay, you know?

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

And I just think the Internet ran with a narrative of you that I've always found completely untrue. Cause I know you for real, like, and never been that way.

[Bink]

And that's another thing. Once you get to this part of your life right here, what people think of you, you don't give a fuck, man. It's not my job to correct these ho ass niggas about nothing. You know what I'm saying? So I just let them think what they want to do, think I know who I am. And people who with me, with me know who I am as well.

[Mall]

Right.

[Bink]

You know what I'm saying? Other than that, I don't. If somebody tell you I'm an. I don't like them.

[Rory]

Yeah, right.

[Bink]

It's a great chance of that. I just don't with them. You know what I'm saying?

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Because if I think if you treat everybody like family, what makes it special?

[Mall]

Right?

[Rory]

Yeah. Because even after, like, getting to know you, we did business together and I was like, that was the easiest ever.

[Bink]

Easy. As easy as, right? Yo, I sent it to you like, damn. Okay. I gotta hit a session. Rory. Like, okay.

[Rory]

I just think all of us been through the ringing with bullshit. I'm of the belief we could do good. It's easy to do good business. Listen, it's people that make this shit difficult for no reason. Here's the money, here's the session.

[Bink]

And we don't reciprocity. And that's the thing. People come to me all the time without them bread. Right, right, right. What am I supposed to do with that?

[Rory]

And to me, I would never approach without some bread.

[Mall]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bink]

You know what I'm saying? We ain't paying none of the producers yet. Look, I'm not here representing the rest of the producers. Right? Right. I won't tell them you pay me. I promise you I won't tell them you pay me. Right. Between me and you, but that's the game. As long as you're not asking for your.

[Rory]

I don't know. I just don't move when I have a budget and when I'm co producing. Producing whatever. I wanted a Bink beat, I hit bink. I said, this the price I got and this is what it is. I'll send it to you right now.

[Mall]

Right.

[Rory]

Bet. Here we go.

[Mall]

The way it should go.

[Rory]

And did the beat.

[Bink]

They'll join the spot for him. Like, literally. I curated one like that in the next few hours and send it back to him. That's the Reason Joint.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Yeah, that's the reason. I heard from you since Reason would love a binky. Would you crazy?

[Mall]

I heard from you since Reason.

[Bink]

What's up with you?

[Mall]

Yeah, N. Reason.

[Rory]

Look that up so we can send it to Just the Reason.

[Mall]

Specifically, like, yeah, 100%.

[Bink]

I mean, for real.

[Rory]

For real.

[Bink]

I am desperately trying to find somebody to do an EP with.

[Rory]

Oh, Reason would do a EP with you in a heartbeat.

[Mall]

I told you I want to do something with Nick. With Nick Grant. I called you about that. That one.

[Bink]

Let's talk.

[Rory]

You would go, yeah, I'm away from him. Yo. I was terrified because I just like, gotten a no bank. We. We cool. But I had sent what the beat that he did for the Reason. Shit. I sent to my man Coleman cause I wanted keys on the shit. And you had called me and I was like, all right, all right. I hit you right back. Cause I thought you was about to curse me out. Cause you text me and said, yo, who put keys on this shit? I was like, yeah, my man Coleman, do it. I thought you was gonna scream at me. And you said, yo, can I sign that kid?

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

Listen, if it's right, I got nothing to say. I'm not a hater, my dude. That's what people try to make me a bro. I'm far from a hater.

[Rory]

I think he was a hater.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Bink]

No, no, I'm sorry.

[Rory]

I just know how, like, particular you are about your shit.

[Bink]

This shit. I would have been a dickhead to say, yo, take that shit off. That shit sounded great. That shit sound amazing.

[Mall]

Yeah.

[Rory]

No, when you sent me those drums that, I was like, oh, I need Coleman to just. Just go nuts on this.

[Bink]

And I'm like, like I said, I ain't gonna fight nothing if it's real.

[Mall]

Right?

[Bink]

I never like to break down on Devil new dress, though. That's honest. God.

[Mall]

Okay.

[Rory]

You don't like that breakdown?

[Bink]

Never liked it. Unseasoned chicken to me.

[Rory]

Really?

[Bink]

Unseasoned chicken.

[Rory]

All right, well, that's the lack of melanin in me. I'm unseasoned chicken. I like the breakdown.

[Bink]

I hate that breakdown.

[Rory]

I think. Well, I think it just let the. The guitar breathe a bit off the breakdown. I finally just like. Like, when you lower everything, it just let that shit be the top.

[Bink]

Matter of fact, this is a camera right? Right here.

[Mall]

Yep.

[Bink]

I got the Pro2 session to devil a new dress now. And I finally seen how you butchered my mike. Finally seen it for myself. God don't like ugly. Butchered my shit, cuz. I couldn't believe it. I was like, damn, this what happened? I got you.

[Mall]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bink]

Got the evidence now.

[Mall]

Yo, bank, man, I'm looking forward to more music from you, man. One of. One of my personal favorite producers ever. Hey, man, I appreciate you.

[Bink]

Come on now.

[Mall]

Yeah, man, I sent him music. Yeah.

[Bink]

I only sent him and his brother music.

[Mall]

Yeah, I definitely got some music from bank and Biggs.

[Bink]

Is the connection to me and Jay.

[Rory]

Somebody sent me the Nas Echo original Bink beat. I'm not going to say who sent it to me, but I leaked that. I put that on Twitter.

[Bink]

That was my way, trying to get it n. I was like, yeah, bro, I couldn't work with Nas back then because of the J.

[Mall]

Okay, yeah.

[Bink]

I'm like, yo, I'm not that type of dude. I'm not gonna go do a Nas beat and then come say, what's up, Jay?

[Mall]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rory]

Scratch did his thing. Like, I love Ekko, but your version of Ekko is nuts. Like, yeah, your version of Echo is crazy sax player.

[Mall]

The whole bank, the humble monster. Yo, bank, listen, man, we appreciate you pulling up. Next time you New York, come by, talk some more with us, man.

[Bink]

Always.

[Mall]

That's bank, the humble monster. I'm that. He's just ginger. Pe Peace.

[Cal Penn]

Hey, everyone, it's Kel Penn. I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my podcast, Hearsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Every episode, I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new audiobooks available on Audible. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to Earsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast. Podcasts

[Rory]

Paramount plus is now the home of all your BET favorites.

[Damaris]

What?

[Rory]

Yes.

[Bink]

With all new episodes of Tyler Perry's Divorce.

[Damaris]

Sisters you've always liked a little drama,

[Rory]

plus a whole new world of movies like Gladiator 2.

[Mall]

Now I will control an empire.

[Bink]

Original series like the Shy.

[Damaris]

Just make sure we protect each other.

[Rory]

And live sports like ufc. Welcome to the history. New home, same family. Your BET favorites are now on Paramount Plus. Subscribe now.

[Commercial Voice (Autotrader/Cindy Crawford)]

Okay.

[Damaris]

Laundry stinks. Literally. I mean, you could just keep buying new underwear. Not that I've ever done that. Or maybe sort your clothes into piles based on how re wearable or filthy they are. Or just use Arm and Hammer Deep Clean. It's made for real life stinks and stains. So even if you don't do laundry, the quote right way Deep Clean will knock it out. I mean, it is from the number one liquid detergent brand that tackles more loads than any other. Come clean with Arm and Hammer Deep Clean. One claim based on total wash loads sold.

[Rory]

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[Damaris]

Guaranteed human.